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Don't listen to anything Teapot says.
I lost my favourite video game because of World Structuring. Can no longer play with friends after being thrown to random server. Very poor communication from the developer
Sneb died to the moas in the borderlands
Sneb wishes he could be the Overgrown Grub
@@lzephyrsweet12 more than anything
the squad falling off during a tag swap is commonplace, gotta push through it.
About the difficulty to get into WvW: there's a few factors that make up for the difficulty, and which of those impacts people more or less is entirely player-based.
Generally speaking: getting into WvW IS indeed quite difficult for the average player. The dynamics are very complex, and just the fundamentals require a lot of time to get used to. You have entirely different balancing, and even within WvW itself you have multiple different "styles of play", ranging from solo-roaming to massive blobs, PPT vs PPK, and even in public tags (arguably the easiest of all modes to get into) just a different commander may make it easier or harder to learn stuff.
The problem here is (as with basically all of the rest of the game): knowledge-transfer. Yes, it is easy to just hop on a borderland and do random stuff. But that doesn´t help you learning about all the different dynamics of WvW AT ALL. You NEED someone that helps you getting into the mode, teaching you the fundamentals, why stuff is played the way it is played, why you play certain builds in certain situations (and especially, why you DONT play certain builds in certain groups), what other ppl expect from you and so on.
the game tells you NOTHING about it (and that´s fair, the game literally cannot handhold you into a competetive game-mode) .
That brings me to the next problem (imo the far worse one): players new to WvW in many cases either don´t realilze, or don´t respect that WvW is by definition a HIGHLY competetive game-mode. It´s not like open world, where whatever you do basically never impacts your allies negatively (sure you can grief other players in open world too), while in WvW almost everything you are able to do CAN impact a LOT of other people negatively (YES, even in, if not especially in, large scale combat).
The next issue is (in my personal, very biased opinion): while knowledge-transfer is (as i already said) an issue, new players are FAR too PASSIVE. It is an absolute RARITY that a new player actually ASKS what´s going on, wants to know stuff. The experienced WvW-players literally cannot see "oh this guy is new, maybe i should explain a few things". WE DON'T KNOW that you just don´t know better if something goes wrong. A LOT of problems that new players have (especially lack of knowledge and experience) could be prevented if new players actually approach the veterans and ASK THEM what they should know about WvW. I NEVER experienced any commander that got asked about basics because the asking player was new becoming toxic, quite the opposite. If asked politely, a lot of commanders are actually happy to share knowledge (or rather, not only commanders, any experienced player usually does so)
This also comes back around to the factor of "attitude". the main source of players that never engaged with WvW, is still the Gift of Battle. And that´s a problem, because a big chunk of those players go with the approach "imma do it because i MUST, and will never touch it again afterwards so i don´t care about anything". That´s a very passive-toxic attitude that hurts everyone, the players on their team, and even the "GoB-farmers" themselves. This is me speaking from personal experience but: back in the days where you still actually earned EXP in WvW if you were not max-level, the fast EXP-gain in especially EotM was what initially got me into WvW. And it just so happened that i liked the mode, so much that it has become my, by far, most played primary game-mode. But i am a player that usually does at least a bit of research before i approach anything, whcih doesn´t apply to the majority of the playerbase.
Subjectively speaking i would say, that we NEED something that REWARDS completely new players that come into WvW for engaging with the community, actively learning the dynamics of WvW and being "useful" to their team. But i honestly have no idea how you could achieve that, which is a shame.
~17:17 that´s a point where i disaggree with. You don´t need to have people join YOU in order to help YOU becoming a better commander. YOU need to REACH OUT to already experienced commanders and ask THEM to show you around. Yes, some may refuse, but also MANY will appreciate it and actually teach you being a commander. Sure, becoming a GOOD commander still requires a LOT of time, but if YOU don´t make the first step and don´t look for a mentor, you´ll NEVER reach that point. This is, once again, a problem with willingness to invest time and effort. You can´t expect others to spoonfeed you everything without reaching out to them yourself. that´s just naive.
Also, people leaving if things don´t work out is NOT a thing exclusive to new commanders, or those that want to become one. this happens ALL THE TIME, even with the most established, well-known commanders. Screw those ppl that leave, focus on those that STAY. I believe you give up FAR too early. I´ve personally witnessed a new commander getting to the point where people actively join because of him. and YES, it took TIME. A LOT of time. It´s a process that isn´t done within a few months, it takes YEARS to get there.
I have reached out to a lot of people, but I also need to practice. In WvW's current state, it is very difficult to practice without an already established community.
I'm not really giving up, only stating that I may not have the time required to actually do it properly
Fourth comment: We have a main tag who leads 90% of all our runs on a rigid schedule. But we have "lesser" tags scheduled on discord during our "down time." To become one of those lesser tags is as simple as asking the officers if you can tag up at specific time. They say yes, it goes on discord, and 5-25 people show up to follow you BECAUSE they know they won't be alone. It's really that simple. We work at taking smaller objectives and there's a lot of jokes and good conversation
Hearing Teapot when The beta ended early fucking KILLED me.
There are pugmanders who are able to lead people who are mostly on random, non-meta builds and still be successful in WvW, against larger groups of enemy pugs or even against some comped groups. So it might be worth trying to learn from them before expecting to be leading a majority of players with meta builds.
Also, once you do have even a small number of players who will play consistently with you and play on meta builds, form a WvW guild/group with them. Try commanding them, even if its as little as 5 people. There's plenty of content out there for a 5-man comp group in WvW, and many of the principles you learn there will be applicable even at larger scale.
Also, probably at least half the time you get flamed when you public tag right now it's because you're with the [Tag] alliance. Which is from Maguuma, and we don't really like "meta" gameplay or relying on commanders to win fights, traditionally.
"I don't want to have to rely on someone else to play the game for me (in wvw)" IMO this statement really just validates the Maguuma playstyle. You don't have this problem if the individual players are expected to be self reliant and know the basics of winning larger fights whether or not a commander is even present.
I haven't gone back to WvW since the restructuring because of time but I like to keep the mindset of giving every commander, pug or not, a chance so I could gauge how well they do as a commander. Before the restructuring when I find an amazing commander I would add them as a friend so I can re-join them if they show up for WvW again.
Yeah I was getting grouped with random people but it worked out really well. I got to see new stuff and I met a guild that suits me really well so far
NA is a desolate hellscape. Every day is unending agony.
In EU there is still one aspect where servers matter. Your server is factored into what instance of a map you get sorted into. In EU we have German, French and Spanish language servers, so if you don't speak English you have a higher chance of ending up in map instances where you understand the other players.
Dark Teapot has emerged.
Great podcast
This was an interesting conversation. I understand your frustration but I'm also reminded of players who complain about "gatekeeping" in raiding. The wvw players are not obliged to include you and your developing skills in their gameplay the same as you're not obliged to include unreliable frogs in your raid groups. You are a talented and successful raider but you're not entitled to that same level of success when you move to a different gamemode with 10+ year experienced players in it. I think getting worked up over it will only get in the way of your growth.
I view these problems as just slightly different. It's easier to find newer raiders for a prog group than it is newer wvwers for a prog group. That's my frustration.
Public tagging on the NA servers is a nightmare to try and win fights. People dont come on meta classes or come on a composition that will win fights, and they dont play in a way that will win fights. You are playing a game of roulette with what you get, and if you dont have the right group you become bags for the enemy group. If you want to get decent at playing wvw I would recommend you try and run with some good fight guilds to learn what they do and how they play, and when you go back to your group run closed, not public, and work with players that want to run the right stuff and play in a way that will win fights. Try reaching out to other commanders of experienced guilds and run with them and see how they drive and play.
11:17
"The boonball meta is completely uninteresting"
The absolute statement of fact here is incredible, it's by far the most atrocious thing I've ever done in GW2. Sitting in a balled up zerg hoping your random stuff hits harder than their random stuff is the most horrific gameplay I've ever tried.
By far the most fun I've ever had is a small roaming group that is capable enough to take on towers. Solo roaming is okay but I feel only camps are worth taking then.
What's also fun is the absolute chaos of a disorganised defense, trying to defend against a hostile zerg with nothing but a bunch of randos that answered the call.
Defending used to be a whole lot of fun way back when. When the siege was actually impactful. When you could tactically dismantle a huge zerg with a frew small groups. And you did not had to be super skilled, just generally know what to do and how.
Darth Sneb knows no bounds! 😨😨😨 #darthsneb2024
I used to be in a fight style guild that broke up a while ago. Never joined another one because I just don't have the ability right now for that kind of time commitment. I had been roaming but since this restructuring went live wvw is in the worst state I've ever experienced. I've stopped playing wvw altogether. The positive side to this is PvP has been great and I've been chewing through raid and strike CM's. Still sad they took my fave game mode and made it genuinely unfun.
It feels bad. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But it is EM, summer and holiday season. For a final conclusion it is to early.
I have had 3 weeks of a big nothing. I am on a server with my alliance and very same server also have roughly every other strong alliance, guilds, roaming groups in EU at the same spot. This leads to us having nothing to do, and chaising that one person who dare set foot on any border to keep participation up. If a group comes our 30 guilds try to get in and wanting to fight them, for those that manage to get in the fight last for 30 sec and then that enemy group port off the border.
And this is gonna go on for nearly 4 more weeks. I am not sure we will survive that long in EU, because people stop playing, stop log in because how fun is it to stand in a camp or next to enemy spawn in hope of finding that poor guy to fix your participation. That is not the WvW i had before this. I had nonstop fights all the time in EU.
Here is my take on it, because i also check my alt accounts in NA and where there is some issues it is nothing like in EU. It is more ballanced. Why is that though? Why do Anet not manage to ballance EU. Do they not know anything about our guilds or our alliances? It feels like that is where it is lacking. And the fact that they also added another tier to EU when it already had one tier to many. And now there are servers who have 5 people on prime getting rolled by overfilled servers. How fun is that for them. Why did Anet add this to EU? It feel like they really hit and missed here, but not as much in NA. I dont get why though.
As for roaming before i think you are not really right about that. In my opinion it was more roaming and clouding in WvW then anything else. In EU at least.
Third comment, but you can command at odd hours Sneb. I happily followed tons of bad commanders when off peak hours
So this is what a PVE main thinks about wvw.
my people i play with love harrasing zerg and small fight... but we have are own builds.. and even though we are not a boon ball... we can take almost double are number if we fight right. like 2-3 pure healers...rest are dps.. or oppertonist.. thief of sb for killing those low health runners
Sneb milking Teapot for content, the tables have turned
Let the milking begin
I think it is a little bloby at the moment, but that is because everyone is still getting everything figured out with all the new things Anet are doing in WvW. In a few months it should settle down and the big blobs should simmer down. I run with [PUNK] and we can have anywhere from 15-30 people running with us. Sometimes less than that. We only private tag when it’s guild training night. Other than that we run open. We are a casual WvW guild and we have fun. We do have a comp which changes with meta.
I have a commander tag but I would agree with you, the thought of tagging up is a very daunting. I totally agree with you on that!
On the subject of flamers in the chat, I’ve seen that just blocking them works wonders ;)
It is a good thing that getting killed by camp npc also gives me participation for gift of battle reward track.... So l just feed until l get that so l can get out
Based
Sneb is not entirely wrong and not entirely listening or refusing to accept the answer. The experience and the rapport building is clearly huge. WvW commanders put in the hours.
You want to lead fights. You have to climb the ladder or adjust your style. Climb the ladder by PPTing. Cap objectives, find unique or good spots to setup siege when running with party-sized squads.
In order to have a fight squad with a small squad means you have to be able to veil bomb or portal bomb as a commander and learn not to overstay your welcome in a fight because you literally lack the numbers. You have to use guerilla tactics with hit and run rather than blobbing.
You show experience from this. You show survivability, combat awareness, etc. You can do it but it is NOT a quick thing.
The major issue with pugs running alongside groups is the revive mechanics.
If you aren’t in group, you aren’t prioritized for boons and healing. If two blobs hit each other, the players that are in downstate are revived QUICKER if they target enemy downstates and those targeted enemies are killed.
What does this mean? Pugs will revive your enemies when you don’t prioritize downs. CLEAVE DOWNS!!
I think that's where I ended up. It may not be viable from a time perspective.
10:52 excuse me teapot I spent SIX MONTHS running on wvw in a f2p account (no mount no glide) in full MELANDRU as a necro - having a build helps but it is in no way a hard thing to go through. IMO the "buy in" is on a conceptual level i.e. "getting" WvW as a game mode
14:05 outnumbered zerg fights are a thing and I'd argue that people doing that are exactly the people that would look at "hard to do" and say "bring it on"
15:05 i can do this all the time and i'm defending those from a top of my meager silver major
16:44 sneb sounding like a extreme pve player looking at anything without instances and seething or something (?)
17:53 why does he HAVE to lead tho? that's the thing I dont get it.
18:51 havoc squading
Im almost dissociating here is this a EU thing?
20:23 this is a good point tho, in general people dont wanna play macro (towers, camps etc) they just wanna bags and that gets a bit frustrating sometimes....
22:12 I find a bit early for crying lack of commanders (maybe in EU only?) since we are still on 1st batch of perma-beta etc but I do get how one would feel like that - specially if they havent chose a guild for WvW before it. I have and although I miss some familiar faces (heya Gashya) all in all I like how there's more comms now, good or learning lol
22:16 it IS hard af to lead, true
23:08 ah yes the classic "i will diss tag and then not tag at all" goes on. to be fair it's a thing in almost all metas too - DE in particular in my experience. not sure how generalized is the feeling tho
24:54 I am really curious to know how generalized is this experience, I've seen people on reddit saying things like that... but again, how is this across all servers? I'd like comments etc
29:47 ok now thats just cathastrophizing. you dont need a lot of hours, just make wvw a part of your daily playtime, you dont NEED to do it.
I'm trying to read some of these comments with as much grace and charitability as possible, but I must comment on your "extreme PvE player" comment.
YES. THAT'S THE POINT. I AM AN EXTREME PVE PLAYER WHO WANTS TO HAVE AN EQUIVALENT EXPERIENCE IN WVW, BUT FIND IT EXCEPTIONALLY DIFFICULT -- EVEN MORE SO THAN GETTING INTO RAIDS.
Why do I want to tag up? Why do I feel like I need to lead? Because tagging up will enable me to actually play the game, just as it does raids. If I don't lead something, I am at the absolute mercy of other commanders being available. I want to control my own destiny. It turns out that when I log in, there isn't always a commander around. I need to have some level of self-efficacy.
I don't need to do anything, I just think this gamemode is cool and wish I could enjoy it further by having more pull when I put up a tag. I understand that takes significant work -- I've done that in PvE -- but with the new system being so structured around guilds, I think it's pretty damn hard to get random people to join you and build that core. It's almost like the core has to already be set up -- which is what Teapot was getting at. He was telling me to join an already existing community and build from there.
The culture and content around WvW is just very different than PvE and the journey to "getting good" is far harder and longer given that it's so social. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, it just makes me question if I really have the time / ability to do it.
@Snebzor @Snebzor wait i thought you were a mostly pvp player, that actually changes a lot of my original notes, damn, sorry for the tone before and now, English is not my 1st language.
Now that I know that, yeah, I can see where you come from. I dont tag up in wvw, yet, but I do have a guild I run with,sometimes and I must say I agree with your point that the entrance fee in WvW is big,or can be perceived as such by many
I am seeing more tags on my server, even the classic "hey just doing random things tag open" commanders than before tho,maybe it's a match making thing?
You brought to my attention this aspect of wvw and honestly I've never thought like that - I bought into the whole "this is war you can't do anything alone" fantasy and gravitated towards tags and now my guild.
Ty for making me wonder those things and again sorry for anything sneb
People who quip about Zero to Hero are just self defeatist complainers.
I watched mukluk and teapot videos when i started and gpt to a running start.
Im now 7 months in and according to gw2efficiency, my farm clocks between 20 amd 30g per hour _NOT_ counting Eitrite gains.
Granted i cannot keep it up for more than 4h (2x 2h cycles) but average person doesnt play for more than 4h a day so their demise is entirely self inflicted.
"Making it new player frinedly" argument that Teeapot is making is a double edged sword. Because while they keep on trying to make the mode and systems better for new players but do not meaningfully and quickly enough adress the foundational issuses and also supporting the veteran players at the same time... well, if they don't those veterans will go away rather than keeping playing the same unfun mess. And however wonderful the new player stull will be at the end won't matter. Because it's the core community of knowlageable, passionate, ionvested in the game-mode base -- that's what makes WvW work, not rewards or any kind of "new player experience". WvW has always been a sandbox and it will always be one. No amount of in-game systems will ever out bid getting on comms and learning from veteran players and also making frineds along the way. But if those players do not stick around... where's the fun, then? Taking one camp every five minutes for the pips and fat rewards while the only other players left are doing the exact same thing and there's no one left who does WvW for the fun of it, is that any better?
In WvW I only care about PTFOing. Killing comes with PTFOing.
I'm just thinking - for learning how to command why not join some very noob guild as your WvW guild so compared to them you won't be a loser commander because they will be matched with similar noob guys and everyone around will be WvW noobs and you will learn together. Could it work that way? Or maybe play as a commander on some less populated borderlands instead of trying to lead people into taking SMC.
BTW I have a request to Sneb: could you just not stop making TH-cam content about WvW please? Like this conversation with Teapot, maybe inviting other experienced WvW players or just discussing your experience. A semi-noob casual WvW player like me can learn quite a bit even from comments to this video and you have a good skill of verbalizing things and asking important questions which is super important for those who learn even if you're on the same level as your audience.
The new wvw sucks srsly.
The most charitable interpretation of this convo is that Sneb wants anet to ban all players who refuse to get farmed in wvw with him lol kappa.
They should add some new shiny thing that every player will hear about. Maybe a map or something on that level of attention grabbing. A structure rework sounds meaningless to someone not already invested in wvw.
I say multiple times that I do not blame anyone for not wanting to get farmed... that's why it's hard to get new commanders into the mix.
@@Snebzor Sorry I thought my tone gave off I was messing around and how crazy the statement was.
@@dangahzone oh lol. Hard to read tone via text
Roaming was big before 2020/21. During 22-23 almost all roamers transferred to Mag. Roaming has been dead on all other servers for the last few years. That was one of the main problems Anet was forced to address with restructuring: Mag. You could say Mag was the main cause for restructuring because they made WvW impossible for their opponents by 24/7 spawn camping for 5+ years. I'm not exaggerating.
Referring to your comment at 15:50 mark. Yes, it very fun to farm other players all day. But it is not fun for the victims. PvP and GvG is fail in GW2 with very very low participation rate. WvW is accessible and fun because newbies can have a chance to learn and succeed. This is a game and if you continue down the route of enabling highly organised groups to easily farm less knowledgeable , skillful or simply laggy players, people just leave that game mode. Look into how to attract new players instead of just listening to veterans that want to easier farm noobs. There are so many games out there and new players do not want to spend so much time to get highly organised in order to even have a chance.
I'm sorry sneb but you need to learn a lot about commanding in WvW. As a commander you act like a squirrel. You don't known how to call for a bomb. And you basically don't have any idea of what kind of players are in your squad. Not to mention the other people in your tag who loves to hide behind toons of siege.
You should ask for WvW from people who actually do it.
"I am sorry Sneb, but you are new to WvW."
You can't make a game to 'everyone'. If the focus of WvW now is to play with guilds, the solo and small group players will be left behind *and that's fine*. The game needs direction, all game modes need direction.