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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 พ.ย. 2020
- Stealth, while confusing on the surface, is incredibly easy to understand in Pathfinder 2nd Edition! In fact, it's far more useful than most people realize! From combat to roleplay, Stealth has a wide variety of uses and applications within this system!
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I would personaly like to thank Hasbro for helping me discover this channel. Your a godsend for helping people understand pathfinder.
In the same boat. Been pretty much devouring these vids since WoTC went suicidal.
Someone's mission failed successfully and we thank whoever that is for their service 😂
The only thing missing from this video is the "point out" action.
Hey thanks for taking the time to point that out.
I would watch the sh*t out of more videos like this. This was clear and easy to understand. Coming from 5e and being slightly overwhelmed with the somewhat confusing rulebook, I learned a ton from this. Do you have a playlist with just these types of tutorial videos? I saw your other playlist of beginner stuff, but this type of content wasn't in there.
This really breaks it down, and makes it understandable!!! 5 stars
That's exactly what I'm going for! Thank you so much for watching!
That last little caveat about Stealth DCs... how did I miss that? Excellent videonky dude.
Immensely helpful video, really cleared up some of the nuance with how these conditions work in conjunction with each other. Thank you so much for posting this!
For Metal Gear players:
Normal: Red Soliton Radar
Hidden: Red Soliton Radar counting down
Undetected: Yellow Soliton Radar
Unnoticed: Regular mode
Thanks bud, I needed that
I've been basically haunting your channel for the last few weeks Nonat1s while preparing for my first PF2E game (Starting off as the DM). I've been playing/DMing various TTRPGs since I was like...8 and am in my mid 30's now. I've been a bit intimated by the sheer chonkiness of PF2E but you have done a SUPERB job of breaking down the rules to make it short sweet and simple to understand while also staying consistent with the "don't sweat the small stuff" mentality. You rock my dude! Keep it up!
As a non-native English speaker, Concealed, Hidden, Unnoticed and Undetected are the most annoyingly complicated nomenclature they could have chosen.... THESE WORDS MEAN THE SAME THING TO ME!. I gave up and just called them Hidden 1, 2, 3... the higher your hidden level, the less aware others are of you.
I can get behind this. I'm a native English speaker, and these terms are confusing before studying them for a while.
Someone make this man head designer.
Whoa who whoa whoa... whoa... That is WAY better!
Yeah, to an outside observer you can't really tell what those words are meant to represent. Concealed is maybe the worst offender, to me if something is "concealed" means something entirely not visible. But in PF2E it means you know exactly where it is and can see it, just that it's somewhat obscured.
Dont worry, its confusing for those who natively speak the language
Nice clear explanation!
This is sooo useful I have a sorcerer that has spells with attack rolls that I use frequently so now I know how to get an advantage over my enemies.
THEY WILL BURN IN PRODUCE FLAME 🔥
Yes! It's a GREAT way to power up some Spell Attacks! Being able to cast it from hiding isntantly gives you a nice edge!!
Nonat mentioned flat-footed at time mark 8:23 but I did not see him explain that rule. Let me explain it. The Hide and Sneak rules (2e.aonprd.com/Skills.aspx?ID=15) say, "You cease being hidden if you do anything except Hide, Sneak, or Step. If you attempt to Strike a creature, the creature remains flat-footed against that attack, and you then become observed...." For example, the gnome rogue in my party likes to Hide behind a boulder or crate. On her turn, her first action is a Strike with her shortbow. That attack gains her 2d6 sneak attack damage because Striking from hidden condition breaks hidden condition but still leaves the target flat-footed to her. On her second action, she Strikes again, but this time the target is not flat-footed. On her third action, she Hides again, giving her protection from ranged counterattacks and setting her up for a sneak attack next turn.
This applies only to Strikes. The other rogue Sam multiclassed to sorcerer and learned Magical Trickster to give sneak attack damage to spell attacks, such as Produce Flame. But if Sam casts Produce Flame from hiding, it does not leave the target flat-footed because Produce Flame's attack roll is not a Strike. Okay, I houseruled that Magical Trickster attacks from hiding worked like Strikes, but that was a GM decision.
Super useful and concise
Chef's kiss. Awesome.
The only thing missing is the undetected wizard casting a silent buff spell and rolling last in it's stealth iniciative
Nice vídeo!
Ok this video gave me some great GM ideias haha
Gotta admit, I struggled with this concept. Thanks. It might have been good to mention where invisible creatures fall in the video but perhaps your saving that for a follow up.
I don't think there's anything to clarify there, as once you understand these concepts the Invisible condition is self explanatory. You are undetected until a creature uses a Seek action to attempt to detect you. If successful you become hidden to that creature until you Sneak again.
Useful to keep this in mind for if I ever play that shadowdancer I wanna make. Shame there are never any 10th level campaigns going on!
By the way, it would be a good idea to include a link and some info about your sponsor in the description! This sponsor piqued my interest, and although a url was shown in the ad, who types urls in manually these days :D
Holy cow, THANK YOU for that comment! I knew I was forgetting something! Let's just blame it on the Dentist Sedatives I took 36 hours ago lol.
Player: I'm going to roll behind the wall and hide!
Gm: I'd like to remind you that it's an empty cage he kept his tiger in...
Player: it's still a wall!
My character Was recently being tortured in a back room without rest of party for information. The boss got tired of my characters lies and procrastinating. Party didn't know what was happening. A lacky started to play a lute to mind probe. My character resisted via will save and crit succeeded a projectiled log in the fire place toward the lute player, killing them on impact.
quite clarifying thx for that. So is hide action sorta equivalent to hide in plain sight ability from the D&D when you get the legendary sneak feat ?
just coming back to this to say William Afton is a confirmed PF2e player now
If you decide to hide an enemy behind a tree in a field I'm burning the tree down
SIMPLE TO UNDERSTAND!!!!!
Sooo if Stealth dc is 10 + Stealth, the perception DC mentioned in the video earlier is 10 + perception, right?
amazing video, thanks, Nonat! You're the 1st person that says PF2e Stealth is concise and simple to understand, most everyone complains about it (myself included).
Really great, concise video. You said 10ft on step though between areas of cover. Where's that in the CRB? Asking, not condemning....great, informative, fun vids!
He said 10 ft because the "Sneak" action is "move up to half your speed". Since many characters have a speed of 25 ft, they cannot Sneak more than 10 feet (assuming 5 ft squares govern your movement).
@@MightySchoop I see... thnx
When I was looking at how to move one of my players rouges to Pathfinder from DnD I was trying to see how best to factor in the rouges ability to hide as a bonus action, until I realized that with the action economy everyone can just hide and an action so it just becomes redundant.
Also, in the video you said that you "take the hide action, pop out from cover, strike, move back into cover, and hide again" . How does that work when you only have 3 actions per turn?
How does "popping out" work if as soon as you leave cover you become observed and lose your hidden status? How does that work to provide the flat buddy condition for sneak attack?
Making my rogue a tiny sprite to make it easier to get hidden
One argument I have been having with some people recently is how if you hide behind cover and then move to attack someone on the other side of the cover in order to take advantage of the flat footed condition it would take a single action to simply peak out around the corner and then the normal action to attack. I think that’s stupid but would like to hear others opinions here and I don’t believed No Nat referenced any extra action so.
Hey Nonat was wondering if we will be getting the last advance archetype anytime soon
Keep your eyes peeled on Monday 😉
Hey, Nonat!
Hijacking your newest video for a question:
I know the archetype is old news by now, but we have started an Age of Ashes campaign and the GM is encouraging us to play a hellknight - would you consider giving your opinions on the archetyp-feats and the dynamics between the arminger and the actual hellknight-dedication in 2e?
There doesn‘t seem to be anything useful on TH-cam yet!
I know this is an old comment but I figured I would respond. The Hellknight Armiger dedication is a prerequisite to the Hellknight Dedication. An Armiger is essentially a Hellknight in training. To be a Hellknight you would have to start with the Armiger dedication, and then take it from there.
This video is priceless
i mean, its a cool system, simple is FAR from the word i'd use for it lol
It's just density if you ask me, a lot of other systems that are regarded as "simpler" than Pf2E have simpler rules on a surface level, but those rules are linked and work off each other in the most complex way imaginable
What about Create a Diversion? You are hidden until the end of the turn. If you Sneak but have no cover/concealment at the end of the movement, does hidden condition for the Diversion kicks in as a cover/concealment? Do you become observed?
I'd personally rule no, you don't become observed - basically the diversion draws attention away from you in such a way that you remain hidden until the end of the turn. This also allows you to get your sneak attack in while the enemy is distracted.
Nice! Just curious by something like this: PCs on one side, bad guys on another,
big Boulder/cover on middle. Pc run and grab boulder then hide. Hes hidden but bgs know he's there. On bgs turn they all move to the pcs side of the bolder, some might even move besides Pc since his square is known, then, and this seems like maybe the only flaw, as long Pc doesnt reveal nor bgs use / suceed on a seek action they are all there looking dumb around him like he become the bolder. Feels like there should be a free check , at least when a trigger happens like "standing besides creature", or"no more cover between them". Then again I guess hidden might mean other things, like tunnel vision and battle chaos or whatever...
That's not exactly how it works. Like I say at the end "Cover is relative". The moment they move around to the other side of the PC, the PC no longer has cover since the boulder isn't between them anymore. Thus, the PC becomes "Observed".
@@Nonat1s Yeah, I understood that as a pre-req to become hidden in the first place, but I thought it might be the case of the condition persisting in further rounds. I guess I confused because my swashbuckler player likes to use the 'create a diversion' action, which makes one hidden despite cover.
Well, I'm glad I was wrong and its working as I'd expect :D
Is the video entirely by the rules? If the only actions you can make while being hidden are: Hide, Sneak or Step then you can't make any attacks e.g. if you're behind a rock and you're hidden, making a bow attack would make you observed, so you would not get a flat-footed bonus? or maybe the observer condition applies only AFTER the action not BEFORE the action? The rules aren't very explicit about it. So if going by the rules, you basically can't make a surprise attack, especially in melee, since you will have to end your sneak action without cover to make melee (unless the enemy is behind a curtain or something, rare cases). And you need to rely on feats to change that.
CRB 251: You cease being hidden if you do anything except Hide, Sneak, or Step. If you attempt to Strike a creature, the creature remains flat-footed against that attack, and you then become observed
@@Nonat1s so it may work for ranged attack behind an object, because for melee attack you first need to Sneak to the enemy and then you check if your're having a cover (in melee range 99% of the time you're won't have a cover). Unless there are guards or something that move towards you and you're behind a wall or something waiting for them.
@@GamingMansion Yeah, it's definitely really tough to do from melee, but remember that you can simply flank for flat-footed in melee which is (usually) way easier than hiding.
If you can't flank though, a great combo is to have your party wizard cast color spray. Even on a successful save, the target is dazzled for one round. Then you can move up, hide, and strike for sneak attack as a rogue.
Can’t wrap my head around the “pop out of cover” to attack thing.
How does one pop out of cover to attack without becoming observed, is popping out of cover a movement action, like a step? If so the economy kinda sucks, even worse if u use reloading weapons
Turn 1 - Stride to cover position, take cover, hide
Turn 2 - Step out of cover (without becoming observed somehow?), Shoot, step back at cover
Turn 3 - take a cover, hide, reload
Am I losing something here? I’m researching like crazy but I can’t find any rules or clarifications on this.
If you don’t need to sneak/step out of and back to cover How do you shoot *from* cover if cover blocks line of sight by definition?
Best I found about it was something about GM might allow you to reposition to shoot so your target don’t get the penalty from you being on cover (??). Which doesn’t make sense cuz it implies you can shoot through a wall if you let the target benefit from +2/+4 AC
The image used to explain cover rules makes it worse to understand. Two of the characters benefiting from cover don’t have line of sight to the target. And this gives the target a bonus to AC? How they even shoot from those positions?
And if they can’t shoot from those positions what’s even the point on making a rule that gives the target bonus AC?!
Also didn’t find anything about line of sight to make ranged attacks (only to cast spells). So there isn’t a rule on that? Which again makes it possible to shoot through a wall (the wall giving the target +4 to AC)?
I love lots of things about Pathfinder but I often get lost on rules for a important things. I want to bad to play a sniper gunslinger but I can’t understand the ruling on cover hide and attacking from hidden/cover interactions.
>It seems that to benefit from attacking hidden (target flat footed) you must leave cover in order to shoot, becoming observed, so there’s no point.
>If you don’t become observed it’s still taxing as hell to keep moving out of and back to cover.
>And if you can shoot from cover without moving you get penalty (target gets plus AC bc you are on cover, so both benefit from it by cover rules) so it cancels out flat footed benefit at best (at worst they get +4 and -2). So it’s better just not to hide/take cover overall
>if you can’t shoot from cover, cover rules makes no sense apart from lesser cover and increasing cover degree. If you can the explanation makes no sense cuz it means normal/natural greater cover by default gives you +4 AC from being behind a wall and out of line of sight from an enemy that can still shoot an arrow at you through that wall. So the wall makes it 20% harder to hit you(?)
Could anyone please clarify this to me. I’m at the point of losing my mind for it’s so frustrating 😞
But wait... I'm missing something. If your Stealth DC is 10+ Stlth bonus then what's the point in rolling for the sneak action? For creature's Passive Perception?
To become hidden in the first place you role stealth against the target's Perception DC. If they spend an action to try to spot you, that's their Perception against YOUR stealth DC.
Stealth DC is only relevant for the Seek action.
When Sneaking, you roll Stealth versus Perception DC.
When Seeking, you roll Perception versus Stealth DC.
When you're saying you fail the flat DC and you don't get to even roll your attack. Does that mean a subsequent one would not have the multiple attack penalty?
No, unfortunately. Even if you fail to target the hidden creature, you still took the attack action, so your penalty does increase.
@@Nonat1s that's what I though. It was just a bit confusing the way it was phrased.
Are you saying your background was abducted by aliens? Cause yeah that happened.
Great video. Is is a bit 'ruley' but it does work as it makes sense.
if the stealth roll does not get compared to the roll in the seek action, for what is there a stealth roll at all? Or isn't there a roll at all? You simply take the "hide" action?
The roll is to become hidden in the first place. If your stealth roll doesn't beat the enemy's Perception DC, you aren't hidden, and they don't have to Seek you.
Sneaky sneaky
Your voice is like butter, and turns my ears into bread
Hide, Shoot, Hide...
that would be funny one guy sees you another guy does not.
"LOOK he's right there.
"I don't see anything."
"HE IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU."
"haha no he's not"
If I was to cast a SILENT SPELL whilst HIDDEN.. would that make me observed??
What's up with the flub at 6:25, looking for more comments? (algorithm daddy plz luv me)
I'm a bit confused lol. Which flub?
Are the vegan leather covers made from real vegans?