Just wanted to say thank you! I have for a while been a hobbyist machinist but recently got a new job running a mill for my department. Im not familiar with large mills like this and my skills were primarily in design, laser and CNC. The company knew this when they hired me and have been supportive in me learning and getting comfortable with all this new stuff. This video was exactly the kind of explanation I needed. The work we do is highly experimental and most of the people who work there don’t have a clue about our machines so I’m trying to learn as much as I can as fast as I can be be useful. Again I very much appreciate your clear and concise explanations of everything.
Thanks for an informative video. I would like to build a heavy, gantry milling machine, using the R8 system. My work envelope will be 10”-X, 10”-Y, and 6”-Z. 1/16” - 3/4” diameter collets will certainly work for me.
Thank you, very much for this concise and informative presentation. You answered my questions about proper holding of a milling cutter with R8 collets within the first 2 minutes. It is SO helpful that you discuss WHY something works best. As a former Industrial Arts teacher, I find helping students understand the "why" is important to help them gain critical and forward thinking.
Hi, i lkike yoy vid. I want ask you, when you say "import ER collet" do you refer to some chinese ER-collet? i found some chinesse ER collet kit in good price and probably buy some chinesse er-collet for that, many thanks
Great video ! I have a 626 mill with a R8 spindle fitted with a ER32 collet holder. Been playing with the idea of getting a R8 20mm spring collet and leaving it in the mill. Then using SC20 straight collets on each of my end mills to speed up tool changes. I know using a collet inside another is not good practice but I only do very light work on aluminium. Have you ever tried this and do you think it's viable. Thanks Neil
Thanks. That was my solution to a small R8 spindle CNC mill we have. I just leave a 3/4 spring collet in it and we use straight shank shortie ER collet holders in it. Same situation, the machine is light duty so we can't even overload the collet if we wanted to.
Cool video, what tools have you used with that 1” R8 collet? I have done some machining at a student machine shop and the largest R8 collet is 7/8”. Only end mill I had for it was a long 7/8” end mill and it was not very rigid.
Yeah 3/4 is the max common size for R8 spring collets. 7/8 is an odd ball and 1" it cannot hold in a practical way. You can get solid holders that will hold up to 1.5" but again not very rigid.
1-Bridgeport 2-Lyndex 3-China Lol, maybe Hardinge made them too but not sure. Honestly the Shars ones are good and CME TOOLS seems good too. I am old school, basically any with the size stamped or engraved in them are better than the laser engraved ones. In a few years you won't even be able to see the laser markings..
Yes you could tap a tool in a spring collet to affect concentricity but ive never run into a situation where this was necessary. Maybe for micro drilling. Just remember that if you can knock-in the concentricity easily, the tool can loose its concentricity easily by the cutting forces on it, so it may not be that beneficial in most cases.
thanks for the info. As far as using ER collets in an R8 shank, what is the proper R8 collet size that will accept ER collets? What is the min and max size ER collet you can adapt in what size R8 shank?
Great informative Video. I am new to machining and I am finding the whole topic of collets and arbours very confusing. I thought the R8 was the big guy with machines to match. It seems that the hobby home range use smaller tooling tapers. It doesn't help by having different codes for what looks like the same thing, for example Mt3 is the same as er 25 and R8 is a er32. As I don't own or have access to any collet holding machines that doesn't help.
Yeah be careful with that stuff. R8 is not the same as ER32 but you can get them combined in one holder. Also, MT3 is not the same as ER25, although you could get them on the same holder. Hope that helps.
Good question, I am not sure and a cursory check of Google did not tell me ether. I know that it was developed by the Bridgeport machine company. The angle is an oddball as well at 16.85 degrees. I would guess that they developed it as a proprietary for their product line and it happened to become the industrial standard because their machines were so popular.
Hi really enjoyed this. I am going to an auction and the are offering a large set of collet pads. Not sure what the benefits are. I have a large selection of 16 c collects.
Interesting take on your handing of the R8's, we thank you. We use Hardinge R8 collets here, preference and accuracy for us. New to your channel, we subscribed and we enjoy seeing your efforts. Lance & Patrick.
You can use a spring collet to hold straight shank ER holders with a shoulder on the shank. This way you could change tools without loosing tool height settings. Is this what you mean?
@@TigermothRacingTV Yes. I have TREE knee mill that uses Z collets and has a collet closer. Most of the time I use the 3/4" Z collet. My drill, er and endmill holders all have 3/4" shank. I do use my 3/8" Z collet for my coaxial indicator.
What a great explanation of the different holders and R8 things, I have a Clausing 8520 Mill, I know don't say it but works for me, like to get a face cutter like 1" to1 1/4" , but the machine has the collets that are MT 2 with a 3/8" threated end for the draw bar. Do you have any ideal of options for that. See they have spring collets, and holders in the MT 2 with 3/8" threated end, or would you suggest something else. I do have many of my collets for this machine but the issue is to find cutters for facing with a small shaft. Thanks , really enjoyed your explanation of all you did here.
Yeah no problem with the Clausing, I have looked at those in the past. The MT spring collets are good too. I would just get a full set of spring collets and I have seen MT-ER collet holders too. That seems to be the best option. Maybe for that machine a good fly cutter is going to be about as efficient as a face miller. A final thought is you can usually find MT shanks that have a soft machineable head you could mount a face mill head on..could work for that machine just fine.
Woah! Thanks a lot. I have a slightly larger mill (kao feng) but not as much travel vertically and a rather large vise. I was really nervous if I should go for the spring collet style or not. Thanks for the adviSe!
Spring collets are not a question. You should always have a set of those for your mill. They are a staple that will save you time and give you flexibility in your milling, don't skip them.
I have a super important and urgent question I am cutting gears for the first time completely on my own I've done all the math I've got everything down perfect I believe in quotations Umm I'm using the R8 integral Shank like you showed here The thing is you have the potential to set the gear cutter at different height depending on how you arrange the spacers but it seems like there's always gonna be some spacers that are not aligned with a section of keyway it's just not long enough is there any right or wrong way to do this? I just for convenience moved it as close to the end of the alright holder is I could and that's really it I just don't know if there's a right or wrong way to do this if you could give me any insight it would be a big help
My understanding is that the key needs to engage with the cutter. It doesn't matter if the spacers mate with the key. However, you may find that the nut may loosten wile running if the last spacer next to the nut does not engage with the key. Hope that helps.
Don't go grinding anything out of your spindle. That key is a screw and it is removable if you want to take it out or replace it. It is there to prevent the collet/tool from slipping. If all you do is light milling you will be ok without it. I leave it in so I have full torque and holding capacity when needed.
Shars.com, eBay, and a new company we have been working with is CME Tools. As always, be cautious about super cheap stuff but the R8 tooling has been really good quality on average.
Do you lubricate the taper on the spindle or the collet for the r8 or ER collets, or just leave them dry? Also, are the toolots (7:40) ER collet holders any higher quality than the other chinese ones?
No lubrication. It is essential that the taper in the spindle and on the tool be clean. Oil and grease attract and hold dust. Its best to get in the habit of wiping the tool holder taper with your fingers every time you pickup a tool and looping your finger in the spindle taper every time before you load a tool. These things will become automatic and you will have to use your judgement based on the cleanliness of your shop.
Your content is great and your video length is perfect. Have you thought about a shop tour video? I would love to see that!
Thats an idea we have talked about. I think we are working up to it as we organize and optomize this year.
I wish I bought my mill with R8 spindle. They only had MT3 in stock and I was a bit impatient.
Good series on tooling. Subscribed!
Thank you and welcome!
Just wanted to say thank you! I have for a while been a hobbyist machinist but recently got a new job running a mill for my department. Im not familiar with large mills like this and my skills were primarily in design, laser and CNC. The company knew this when they hired me and have been supportive in me learning and getting comfortable with all this new stuff.
This video was exactly the kind of explanation I needed. The work we do is highly experimental and most of the people who work there don’t have a clue about our machines so I’m trying to learn as much as I can as fast as I can be be useful.
Again I very much appreciate your clear and concise explanations of everything.
Good to hear. I am glad the info is helpful. I enjoy sharing info about tools I am passionate about.
I've got a 1-1/8 r8 js. You can also hold 1-1/8 stock in a r8 collet block js.
Thanks for an informative video. I would like to build a heavy, gantry milling machine, using the R8 system. My work envelope will be 10”-X, 10”-Y, and 6”-Z. 1/16” - 3/4” diameter collets will certainly work for me.
Thank you for explaining that
really good info for a beginner like me
Thank you, very much for this concise and informative presentation. You answered my questions about proper holding of a milling cutter with R8 collets within the first 2 minutes. It is SO helpful that you discuss WHY something works best. As a former Industrial Arts teacher, I find helping students understand the "why" is important to help them gain critical and forward thinking.
Glad you found it helpful
Hi, i lkike yoy vid. I want ask you, when you say "import ER collet" do you refer to some chinese ER-collet? i found some chinesse ER collet kit in good price and probably buy some chinesse er-collet for that, many thanks
Answered all my questions about collets in this video. Thank you.
Great to hear!
YES!👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Great video !
I have a 626 mill with a R8 spindle fitted with a ER32 collet holder. Been playing with the idea of getting a R8 20mm spring collet and leaving it in the mill. Then using SC20 straight collets on each of my end mills to speed up tool changes. I know using a collet inside another is not good practice but I only do very light work on aluminium. Have you ever tried this and do you think it's viable.
Thanks Neil
Thanks.
That was my solution to a small R8 spindle CNC mill we have. I just leave a 3/4 spring collet in it and we use straight shank shortie ER collet holders in it. Same situation, the machine is light duty so we can't even overload the collet if we wanted to.
The R8 is very popular for 1HP machines that Bridgeport designed. Most of the BP clones up to 5HP use the NT40, which is used all over the world.
Yeah generally R8 is up to about 5hp. Over that you really want a bigger taper holder.
Cool video, what tools have you used with that 1” R8 collet? I have done some machining at a student machine shop and the largest R8 collet is 7/8”. Only end mill I had for it was a long 7/8” end mill and it was not very rigid.
Yeah 3/4 is the max common size for R8 spring collets. 7/8 is an odd ball and 1" it cannot hold in a practical way. You can get solid holders that will hold up to 1.5" but again not very rigid.
Ok, I lied....I have one last question about R8 collets....what are the top 5 brands?
1-Bridgeport
2-Lyndex
3-China
Lol, maybe Hardinge made them too but not sure. Honestly the Shars ones are good and CME TOOLS seems good too. I am old school, basically any with the size stamped or engraved in them are better than the laser engraved ones. In a few years you won't even be able to see the laser markings..
Is it possible to true up a tool in a R8 collet? i've heard of this being done by tapping the tool but I've never witnessed anyone doing it.
Yes you could tap a tool in a spring collet to affect concentricity but ive never run into a situation where this was necessary. Maybe for micro drilling. Just remember that if you can knock-in the concentricity easily, the tool can loose its concentricity easily by the cutting forces on it, so it may not be that beneficial in most cases.
thanks for the info. As far as using ER collets in an R8 shank, what is the proper R8 collet size that will accept ER collets? What is the min and max size ER collet you can adapt in what size R8 shank?
R8 shank tools with ER collets are available in all sizes ER-11 through ER-40.
Great informative Video. I am new to machining and I am finding the whole topic of collets and arbours very confusing. I thought the R8 was the big guy with machines to match. It seems that the hobby home range use smaller tooling tapers. It doesn't help by having different codes for what looks like the same thing, for example Mt3 is the same as er 25 and R8 is a er32. As I don't own or have access to any collet holding machines that doesn't help.
Yeah be careful with that stuff. R8 is not the same as ER32 but you can get them combined in one holder. Also, MT3 is not the same as ER25, although you could get them on the same holder. Hope that helps.
@@TigermothRacingTV Yes it does, thanks for the information.
Where did the designation "R-8" come from? In other words, what do the "R" and the "8" mean? Thank you. Student Machinist
Good question, I am not sure and a cursory check of Google did not tell me ether. I know that it was developed by the Bridgeport machine company. The angle is an oddball as well at 16.85 degrees. I would guess that they developed it as a proprietary for their product line and it happened to become the industrial standard because their machines were so popular.
@@TigermothRacingTV
Hi, good vid/shop. I have dude, whit R8 toolholder when get out/in from the machine do you lost the Z hight tool?thanks
Thank you. Only the solid or ER holders will keep Z height position of the tool.
@@TigermothRacingTV ah ok, true, and now I have dude if R8 solid/ER holders can keep the Z high on cnc machines ? many tanks for your answer
Thank you..
Lots of good information but the video editing to speed up your speech is not needed.
Hi really enjoyed this. I am going to an auction and the are offering a large set of collet pads. Not sure what the benefits are. I have a large selection of 16 c collects.
Great video. Thank you.
Interesting take on your handing of the R8's, we thank you. We use Hardinge R8 collets here, preference and accuracy for us. New to your channel, we subscribed and we enjoy seeing your efforts. Lance & Patrick.
Good to hear and thank you! Hardinge quality is indeed legendary in the machining world.
wish my r8 collets slid into my machine that easily....
8:00 so what your saying is just use a 3/4 r8 and install er into it. no need for a set of r8 just a 3/4?
You can use a spring collet to hold straight shank ER holders with a shoulder on the shank. This way you could change tools without loosing tool height settings. Is this what you mean?
@@TigermothRacingTV Yes. I have TREE knee mill that uses Z collets and has a collet closer. Most of the time I use the 3/4" Z collet. My drill, er and endmill holders all have 3/4" shank. I do use my 3/8" Z collet for my coaxial indicator.
Thank you for this video
Glad it was helpful.
What a great explanation of the different holders and R8 things, I have a Clausing 8520 Mill, I know don't say it but works for me, like to get a face cutter like 1" to1 1/4" , but the machine has the collets that are MT 2 with a 3/8" threated end for the draw bar. Do you have any ideal of options for that. See they have spring collets, and holders in the MT 2 with 3/8" threated end, or would you suggest something else. I do have many of my collets for this machine but the issue is to find cutters for facing with a small shaft. Thanks , really enjoyed your explanation of all you did here.
Yeah no problem with the Clausing, I have looked at those in the past. The MT spring collets are good too. I would just get a full set of spring collets and I have seen MT-ER collet holders too. That seems to be the best option. Maybe for that machine a good fly cutter is going to be about as efficient as a face miller. A final thought is you can usually find MT shanks that have a soft machineable head you could mount a face mill head on..could work for that machine just fine.
Woah! Thanks a lot. I have a slightly larger mill (kao feng) but not as much travel vertically and a rather large vise. I was really nervous if I should go for the spring collet style or not. Thanks for the adviSe!
Spring collets are not a question. You should always have a set of those for your mill. They are a staple that will save you time and give you flexibility in your milling, don't skip them.
I have a super important and urgent question I am cutting gears for the first time completely on my own I've done all the math I've got everything down perfect I believe in quotations Umm I'm using the R8 integral Shank like you showed here The thing is you have the potential to set the gear cutter at different height depending on how you arrange the spacers but it seems like there's always gonna be some spacers that are not aligned with a section of keyway it's just not long enough is there any right or wrong way to do this? I just for convenience moved it as close to the end of the alright holder is I could and that's really it I just don't know if there's a right or wrong way to do this if you could give me any insight it would be a big help
My understanding is that the key needs to engage with the cutter. It doesn't matter if the spacers mate with the key. However, you may find that the nut may loosten wile running if the last spacer next to the nut does not engage with the key. Hope that helps.
Great video, im subscribed! For me, I like r8 to er collets. Been looking at the tormach tts too
Thank you and welcome!
Thank you for this very informative video. Level of instruction exactly matched what I needed as a slightly trained newbie.
Great to hear!
Where did you get the tool in your hand at 7:41
That is a nickel plated ER-20 holder. Probably from Shars but you can get them on ebay too. Very nice quality and feel in the hand.
Outstanding!👍👍👍👍👍
Question: Would it be beneficial to grind/remove the indexing nub inside of of the spindle for R8 collects? As far as speeding up the change out...
Don't go grinding anything out of your spindle. That key is a screw and it is removable if you want to take it out or replace it. It is there to prevent the collet/tool from slipping. If all you do is light milling you will be ok without it. I leave it in so I have full torque and holding capacity when needed.
The location pin is there to ensure that the collet always sits in the same orientation to the spindle
Stavros
Excellent video thank you. Where can I get good quality r8 tool holders in Europe (Ireland) looking for what you put in the machine at 10:26
Shars.com, eBay, and a new company we have been working with is CME Tools. As always, be cautious about super cheap stuff but the R8 tooling has been really good quality on average.
Just be prepared to replace the setscrews on all of the solid holders. Order some nice alloy flat tip ones to swap them with.
good info, can you show some examples of going higher or lower speed to reduce chatter?
We will show that in another video on the mill as we get more in depth into tool deflection.
Do you lubricate the taper on the spindle or the collet for the r8 or ER collets, or just leave them dry?
Also, are the toolots (7:40) ER collet holders any higher quality than the other chinese ones?
No lubrication. It is essential that the taper in the spindle and on the tool be clean. Oil and grease attract and hold dust. Its best to get in the habit of wiping the tool holder taper with your fingers every time you pickup a tool and looping your finger in the spindle taper every time before you load a tool. These things will become automatic and you will have to use your judgement based on the cleanliness of your shop.
The nickel plated holders are nicer but also tend to be 3-4× the price.
What’s the make/model of those storage racks?
They are Sierra American. They are the best ones I have found. They also have 5C racks we use.
Great video thank you for producing it