SHOULD YOU GET A SMALL MILL INSTEAD OF AN INDUSTRIAL-SIZE ONE?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
- #smallmills
Should you buy a small mill or a standard size industrial one like a Bridgeport or a Bridgeport copy? In this video I'll share with you why I decided to start small. The advantages of a small mill like the Grizzly RPM, as well as the limitations and what I've learned by working with them. Hopefully this would help you make a decision if you're on the fence.
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Good advice, just the quandary i was considering, my opinion was surely old America is better than new Chinese. But there is a real factor in how it was kept.
Old America is best if you know what to look for and how to adjust it. Most old mills have not had their Gibs adjusted in decades and doing that will tell you allot about their condition.
Sage advice. Thank you.
Thank you. Interesting perspective.
Great vid, great points. I know I'm 2 years late to the game, so to speak, but this helped me think of additional considerations, so thank you!
Great review , very appreciative for the info.
Glad it was helpful!
Another excellent video. Thanks
Thank you, Gilles
yes sir this is one of the better videos covering this topic good job
Glad you think so!
Great! Nice your voice and nice machine
Just found your channel....very nicely done......thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching, Paul and welcome to our channel!
Great discussion with a lot of salient points. There's a lot to be said for investing one's time and money into a "real" industrial-class machine, but smaller and lighter can actually be better in some circumstances. I recently got a 950-lb Taiwan knee mill. Not as fancy as yours, but was a fraction of the prices, and it's in quite good condition for a 43 year-old mill. Was it the best choice? Idk, but I'm stoked to have it.
Great to hear. I am glad you liked the video and that you are happy with your machine find. Whatever gets you going and excited is the right machine for you at that time.
I started with a pretty small bench top mill and regretted my decision almost immediately when I got a dividing head that didn't fit underneath the quill. Now I have two milling machines and regret it less as I can leave that one set up with jigs for certain small tasks and do most of my stuff on the bigger machine.
That said I will probably still get rid of my small mill when I can afford it and get a second decent sized milling machine so I only have one size of tooling.
Lol that's a common experience. It is tempting to start small but we tend to need bigger pretty quickly!
I just upgraded from an 8" drill press to a 17" model; the 8" started off well until it started stalling on larger bits, then the bit was to big to fit over the piece especially on the table, which caused a whole bunch of other issues 😅... you get the idea lol. It's good to start small unless you already know that your committed to machining, if so, go at least medium sized so that you can use it for a longer time to do bigger projects 😉
Yeah you generally want to go as big and best as you can manage. I noticed that when we moved out of our tiny space, almost all the tiny machines we had disappeared within a few years and were replaced with bigger ones.
One word, Mass.
I go to church.
Mainly just get what you want. You can always upgrade. I am new to machining but always wanted to learn on a BP. So that’s what I got. My upgrade was a DRO. I also purchased a LeBlond Regal 13x30 lathe. I am really happy with both.
Excellent choices, glad to hear!
A big part of making a decision on which mill to get is being realistic about what you need/want it to do. In my case, making engine accessory(AC, PS, alternator, etc) and clutch slave cylinder brackets for motor/trans swaps or stuff like throttle body spacers, a decent bench top mill is more than adequate. Nothing I do requires aerospace levels of accuracy or fast production times. Over the last 2 decades I've made dozens of such brackets out of aluminum with little more than a drill press, bandsaw and trim router.
The same goes for lathes. I'd love enough capacity to machine Dana 60 axle tubes for inner seals but I simply don't have the room for a machine that large. On the occasions I do need stuff like that done I'm OK with paying a commercial shop.
To that end, I recently picked up a used RF45 clone for $1500. I should be able to do the CNC conversion(with an enclosure and flood coolant) plus buy a ton of tooling for about half the price of a "standard package" Tormach 770. I'm also looking at the PM-1228 lathe as it has enough capacity for my usual needs(such as making threaded inserts for trailing arm rod ends) while not taking up too much real estate in my small workspace.
By all means, one should try to get the biggest machine that fits their space and budget. Small jobs are obviously easier to do on big machines than big jobs are on small machines but also be realistic.
my benchtops do most jobs, but just lately ive gotten obsessed with 250 I4s, doing valve jobs... and guess what? with a 5inch face mill i can JUST face a head. i have basically 10mm clearance at either end... would much rather have a bridgie for that... run a 10 inch and have plenty of room... and i definitely dont trust my quill lock to stay locked... just stuffed a job on the last step the other day when it did that to me... effin! last bit of stock too!
so im not about to try and skim any heads just yet.
I've come back to this video several times ,I've been torn between a larger bench-top mill & an 8" x 32" even larger mill (nearly 2x the weight, I think I'm going with the larger mill.
One thing to remember is that a bench top mill takes up almost the same floor space as a knee mill. So if you were to go with the bench top mill there is usually a non negotiable factor involved like getting it in a basement or other moving restrictions or rigid space restrictions. The heavier mills will always cut nicer and more quickly.
@TigermothRacingTV thank you. This helps even more.
Great content! CNC for hobbyists is way over talked IMO. Unless going into production it’s not needed and adds more work. Also never really considered the z shift of a knee mill. The table top Wong Fu style is well known for this problem due to lack of dovetails but it’s an issue as well with knee mills. Great stuff to consider.
That used to be true years ago, I'd spend a few days programming a part in the 80s that free cam software can program in seconds now. So one off complicated parts on a hobby cnc is very easy, and I do it all the time.
You made some very good points here. As a hobby machinist I simply don’t have the room for a full sized knee mill. My shop is in my basement and getting a Bridgeport down there is a no go. Also, I’ve been told that most of the used full sized machines that come from job shops are used to the point of being worn too much for their own needs or needing repairs so it’s just easier for them to replace them. I use a large dovetail column mill/drill at work and find that it works fine for my needs so I plan to get my own soon.
I think the dovetail column mills are much more rigid. We have a SYIL brand mill that has been excellent.
@@TigermothRacingTV And unlike the round column mills you don’t have to re-tram them every time you change the head height.
Yeah... Similar situation. Basement workshop with no outside the house access. Thankfully I don't need a bigger machine, but I too have found that shopping used Bridgeports is a hit or miss endeavor. Most of the ones that are priced in the range of the bench top machine I'm looking to buy, are totally roached and need major rebuilding (scraping of the ways, table and all new bearings throughout) to be able to achieve the degree of accuracy the smaller bench top machine.
But if you have the $$$ for a new Bridgeport clone, or a fully rebuilt Bridgeport, then you're on a whole different level of capability, which believe me, I'd love to have that option... Used to work with a Bridgeport in the tool room of my last job and it would be a great machine to have in a home shop.
@@WHJeffB I’ve also been told that the secret to being satisfied with using a benchtop mill is never running a full sized knee mill. Since I never have I won’t notice the difference.
@@robertpearson8798 I've used Bridgeports and much smaller hobby sized bench top machines (In my home shop... Sherline and Taig). Being aware of the limitations is key to being satisfied with the smaller machines once you've had the pleasure of using a Bridgeport. Knowing that you can't take heavy cuts (patience is a virtue here) and that smaller machines lack some of the capability will get you most of the way towards being OK with the smaller machine.
Luckily my needs for the future don't require a Bridgeport sized machine and a square column bench top mill will more than suffice, but believe me, if the right machine comes available at a reasonable price, I'll make space in the garage for it!
I started with a new grizzly benchtop mill (R8) w/dro...after encountering some critical no-go problems with it, right out of the box, I got a refund and rolled it into a Bridgeport... glad I did, I wasn't limited by anything and there were basically zero limitations in what I could do.
That said, the small machines have their place. you need to know what you ultimately want to do. Regardless of size, if you're going to be doing a lot of things, get a DRO.
Yes the DRO is a game changer. Sounds like your journey brought you to a good place. Sometimes knowing what you want to make is hard when you are starting out.
If you get a smaller mill and find that you need a larger one, you do have the passive benefit of being able to use your small mill for grinding operations. Tape up the ways, set up some mist coolant, and use a cup wheel on an arbor. It's a lot nicer than using a bench grinder.
I have wanted to try that with a 3 axis cnc mill to grind special form tools. Do you use this setup for grinding cutting tools?
@@TigermothRacingTV Yes, I followed exactly what Joe Pieczynski did on his channel. It's best for broaches and very light finishing cuts on hardened shafts. You can also use this concept to get the visual appearance of blanchard grinding.
Most of the "video publications" and tutorials I've seen feature basic parts machined with square end-mills: holes, pockets, channels etc. I've seen little featuring complex three dimensional or what I call "contour tool paths." In other words, all three axes working simultaneously to create more than flat pocket bottoms with 90 degree walls. It would take forever to create these forms with conversational programming such as Path Pilot. What "capability" must I purchase in order to create 3-D parts with curvilinear pockets and outer surfaces. I'll use this machine primarily to produce complex cavities for making hollow mold forms. We're a small business and a Solidworks or MasterCam software package is beyond our resources. Thanks for any guidance you might share.
There are lots of options. First one that comes to mind is a free or cheap program called Mesh Cam. Easy to learn and VERY powerful if you become familiar with its odd quirks. Other options would be Fusion360 or a Maker subscription to Solidworks is cheap. Learning Solidworks would be an excellent way to build your skills. Once you know the fundamentals on how to choose tools feeds and speeds for cnc machining then you can operate any software to make what you want.
@@TigermothRacingTV Thanks Tigermoth. When I first started operating "numerical control," it was just that "NC" fed with a punched tape. We produced control systems for aircraft, assault helicopters , tanks and submarines, tolerances were very tight. Pretty amazing what 100 yards of myler could produce on a mill or turning center. In that world, "machinists" were required to know materials, tool selection, feeds and speeds and operational sequencing. Today we have "machine operators or parts changers" that wouldn't know a threading tool from a die chaser. Not to be critical, I get it "operators" cost less to employ. I've got an introductory skill level in Solidworks and MasterCam. I've had the privilege of hiring and working with some uncommonly talented programmers. I agree that level of CAM comes only after much practice and dedication. I have a pretty specific interest in utilizing some kind of CAD/CAM. I'm hoping to identify just what I need in order to avoid spending for capability beyond those needs. Thanks again for your insight. I'll check out Mesh CAM
This is the machine I want were did you buy the caster set to roll it around..
The mobil base is a Grizzly/Shop Fox product.
See our video on mobil bases..
Help!!!! I'm in-between a column drill mill vs a knee mill my question can the column drill mill produce parts like a drill mill
You mean can a round or square column mill produce parts like a knee mill? It really depends on the size of the machine you are talking about. I am going to assume you are talking about comparing benchtop manual mills only. The knee mill is the most universal and capable, and they are usually the best quality of that size, but the small ones are not common. Generally never buy a round column mill. They are just not worth it. They are usually not rigid. Any of the bed or square column mills are good, the bigger the better. You can get a benchtop square column mill with nearly Bridgeport travels on it. A CNC square column benchtop mill will run circles around any manual bridgeport.
Could you share the model of the power drawbar?
The yellow one is Torque-rite but I recommend the Kurt, they are more reliable.
Hi Just found your channel, the grizzly machine you show is sold in the uk under the brand Chester machine’s, I have just purchased one secondhand and am awaiting delivery as we speak, your video was very useful as previously I had a machine with an ER25 collet holder so as you can imagine much smaller, so to me although you call it small it’s large lol, thankyou and I have subscribed
Thank you, glad the video was helpful. That machine is a great modern alternative to the old Rockwell and Clausing mills. I think you will be happy with it.
I bought a used 6x26 Kneel Mill (Yes HF 90939)......skipped the BP....super little machine!
I have a Bridgeport, and love it, but if I ever move, and no longer have a shop large enough for a full sized mill, that HF 626 is exactly what I'd look for. Its really the perfect mill for most hobby shop guys, if truth be told.
Isn't the simplest answer size the machine to the size of the work?
I guess but what if you make a big variety of sizes of work?
Is grizzly the same as harbor freight?
Lol, no. I would say Grizzly is better but they both have useful stuff.
If you have a garage to put it and no steps buy a big one unfortunately i put my smaller pm25v clone in a different room and i can take it apart to move it anywhere
Yes, what space you have to put a machine is a huge factor for sure. The more micro barriers that you put in the way of using your machine will also drastically reduce how often you use it.
I only have one question, who does your nails?
Video keeps jumping. Can’t watch. Sorry.
Some useful information but ask your camera man to stand still
Thanks for the feedback. We try to show as much as we can instead of just me talking for most of the video.
I liked the moving camera 😊
This machine is now $7000.
Thats insane. You can still buy a used Bridgeport for 2k but you have to know what you are looking for.
Stop moving the camera!
No small mills are useless as are pen mills.
It really depends on your application. We started our business on a benchtop mill and made thousands of parts on it before getting something bigger.
Aiyaiyai. A bit boring? Isnt it? Monotone monologue kind of switches the ears off. Stop talking and show some actual machining variations between the various machines. But it was well done. Dont be discouraged.