I own a BR86 and love it, but i think why people say it's too slow is for two main reasons. hp per dollar and it "looks" like it's fast. A lot of straight line driving in the states and there are a lot of cars with faster 0-60's in the same price range. I've owned plenty faster cars but they were not nearly as fun to drive as the new BR86, which I think is the most important factor to a sports car.
If you want straight line brainless no skill driving experience, get a heavy turbo/supercharged boat aka mustang hellcat whatever. The japanese twins were made for tuners with modularity in mind. Hence the NA motor. I'm glad they went with the NA route, keeps costs down and boosts reliability, while keeping options open in the future
Found this video. th-cam.com/video/5m9uw-Sdem4/w-d-xo.html 7:59 with GR86. All stock including brakes, pads, and fluids except wheels and tires, an oil cooler, and a oil pan baffle. The guy says that RTV was not an issue with this vehicle. Perhaps the newer GR86's and BRZ's have fixed the excessive RTV issue. I could only find 1st Gen BRZ videos.
Totally agree with you that our perpective on speed has gotten insane. I own a 2nd gen BRZ and its plenty fast enough for me 90% of the time. I owned a C7 Z51, which would blow the doors clean off my BRZ, and yet this car puts a much bigger smile on my face. Only thing I'll point out is that tire tech has big one of the biggest 21st century evolutions in car performance. I'd bet, if you could put some of those classics on the same set of shoes that come on the top trim twins, those numbers might change quite a bit.
The C7, nannies off, will kill you quickly and think nothing of it. It was an absolutely phenomenal car but, turn everything off, and you learned real fast that computers were doing a lions share of the work to make it so good.
As a 2023 BRZ limited owner, love your channel so far. Hope you get more subscribers! Your content is just about perfect for what I am interested in. I live in the mountains of southern NM with awesome roads and very few people. Lots of tight turns. Even with altitude from 8-9500ft with the attendant loss of power, the BRZ is simply perfect.....after you pull the plug on the sound synthesizer. And, because I hardly ever have to stop, I routinely average well over 30mpg, even while hammering the car around corners. I even don't think it is that loud, except for really rough gravelly pavement. Love the Edmunds U-turn video where the BRZ beat the new turbo WRX in acceleration. As the co owner (now with my son) of a Cobb Stage 2 2004 WRX wagon, I can say that the old WRX is faster, but does not handle near as well. We have lots of bumps mid corner here, and I am amazed how the BRZ just ignores the bumps even when pulling serious G's. I wonder how well the GR86 would handle them with the stiffer setup? Maybe something to review for you? BTW, just replaced my initial set of Michelin PS4's with the new PS5's instead of the PS4S or other options. Seriously impressed with this new tire that just became available in the US. And have to like the 30000mi warranty. Can you tell me where you got the 8:27 number for the BRZ? Was it stock? Is there a video? Another BTW, I am always amazed at all the people who say Subaru should have added a turbo to the BRZ. With Subaru's current design, this is basically impossible which people should be made aware of. The pre 2015 cars had the turbo plumbed to the right rear of the engine towards the top. My 2004 wagon is like this. However, starting in 2015, they plumbed the turbo at the bottom right rear of the engine to shorten the exhaust runner length and reduce turbo lag. The turbo is basically under the engine. My 2017 Forester XT is like this. With the extremely low ride height of the BRZ, the turbo design that Subaru uses for the 2.4 simply would not fit without raising the engine significantly. Something you obviously don't want to do with the low Center of Gravity vehicle. Anyhoo, love your channel. Keep it up!
Hey thanks for the support -- it looks like we're cut from the same cloth 🤙. 100% agreed on how the BRZ soaks up bumps; comparing to a GR86 is a great idea! Also agreed with how a turbo, routed in an OEM style, would jeopardize the COG. A roots blower on an STi model though...I'd love to see it! Here's the link for the 08:27 run: www.motor1.com/news/619839/toyota-gr86-nurburgring-lap-onboard/amp/ How do you like the PS5s? Any quieter? If you have a favorite road in your area too I'd love to get its name and check it out. Thanks for posting up your thoughts 🤙
@@KonkrRoads I think the PS5's might be just a tad quieter. But the PS4's were not bad. But like all summer tires I have had, they get a bit louder as they wear (but then they handle more like slicks!). I live by Cloudcroft New Mexico. Our house is at 7500ft and Cloudcroft is around 9000. The roads aren't particularly long and one you cannot ride in a loop. But The Sunspot highway (130 out of Cloudcroft, turn right on the Sunspot Observatory (hwy 6563 [which is the spectral wavelength of Hydrogen as an omage to the solar observatory!]) is 32 miles of wonderfullness......Rides along the ridge for most of it and then drops down to the town of Timberon. Tons of up and down and tight turns. This is better to ride on the weekdays or shoulder seasons as weekends have lots of tourists in the summer. My go to quick ride loop is to go down to Mayhill and drive hwy 130 up to Cloudcroft which is around 30 miles for me. Good reason to run errands in Cloudcroft. 130 is usually pretty empty. Then I also take hwy 82 east to hwy 24 and do the loop back to hwy130 through Pinon. This road is always empty. You can also drive 244 to Ruidoso from Cloudcroft which is really pretty, but not as great a driving road as the others. Do you ever get out this way? Aren't you in Hawaii?
@@Dirtman150 great data! I just Google-mapped Cloudcroft -- I can see why you drive there! You're not too far from the Coronado Trail in AZ too...ever go out that way? I drove through NM on US40 a few years ago on a cross-country drive (in my wife's Outback 😎) -- beautiful area. Wish I had stopped to see the wavelength road and snapped a photo; that's about as unique as it gets!
@@KonkrRoads Been on the Coronado Trail (191) several times. Talk about awesome. A bit of a haul from here. I also do a long loop from our house through Silver City to hwy 15, then 35, then 152 over Emory Pass in the Gila Wilderness of NM. Worth doing at some time.
@@KonkrRoads My wife has an Outback too. Ha! We are quite the Subaru family. I also have a 2017 Forester XT with the WRX engine. And I gave my son my 2004 WRX wagon with the Cobb stage 2 package which he still has. We kind of co own it and I get to drive it anytime we go visit.....I still love that car. That 2L engine with the 7000 rpm redline is so much better than the poor excuse they have in the WRX today (with the 6000 redline). I had planned on getting the new STI when it came out.....until it didn't. Hence my vector to the BRZ. And so glad I went that way. Completely different experience. May keep it forever.
I agree with the sentiments of this video but there is no way in hell the GR86 or BRZ stock is doing a 5.4 second 0 to 60 from a dig. For reference here is a video of the BRZ from Australia (where the car has 233 hp instead of the US's 228 hp) and the best time they could get is 6.54 to 100kph (which is 0 to 62 mph) and he has tested many cars on that exact strip of road. Does anyone have footage of this supposed 5.4 second 0 to 60? th-cam.com/video/S_TCFurnSlE/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=DrivingEnthusiast
I don't have a C&D video, and don't know their secrets to the fast time, but what's also interesting is they achieved the 5.4 0-60 in both the GR86 and BRZ independently. The BRZ in their test finished 0.1sec faster in the quarter mile at 13.9 as opposed to the GR86's 14.0: BRZ: www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a37419688/2022-subaru-brz-drive/ GR86: www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a37322814/2022-toyota-gr86-drive/
@@KonkrRoads the "secret" to an absolute best 0-60 time is to give your clutch and transmission absolute death. Launch a car like you literally stole it and do not have any concern for its longevity and it can return the absolute shortest 0-60 time. Which is why 0-60 is pointless despite being ballyhooed all the time. In the real world, no owner is going to do that unless they're sitting on a mountain of cash to fix/replace the transmission.
I can resolve this difference for you. The 5.4 figure comes from C&D and they omit 1ft of roll-out. That equates to .3 sec reduction in 0-60 time, meaning a real time of 5.7 sec. On the other side you are quoting some random outlet from Australia that tested to 62mph and they did it on a public road which likely does not have the grip of C&D's test track. In reality this is a high fives car with a capable driver at the helm. With an average driver, more like low 6's.
Dude - great video. We have a GR86 and LOVE it; I'll be posting some more autocross videos, which is where I think this car really shines. Small youtubers and GR86/BRZ lovers unite!!!
My 2022 Camaro LT1 6-speed was 35K MSRP. 6.2l V8, 455hp and torque, tremec 6 speed, front brembos, 20in wheels, LSD, etc all standard. New BRZ are like 30-35K which to me seems absurd. They are plenty fun but i sometimes find it hard to justify paying so much. Especially since theyve been having engine issues and its not like they get 30mpg combined and insurance is cheap.
@@ayushmalpeddi2793 I'm still unsure on how Chevrolet offered the LT1 at such a bargain price -- even removing the 2.5% tariff on the BRZ doesn't price it out to an advantage. Bottom line: I think the BRZ and 86 are perfectly priced...the LT1 was just a deal of the decade if a musclecar floats the boat. 🤙
I don't own one. But I gotta say, the biggest problem with the BRZ/GR86 isn't it's speed. It's the owners who feel the need to defend the car for some weird insecurity reasons. You don't see Miata owners (closest comparison) doing this nonsense. They bought the car they liked, because they like the car, end of story.
@@charlesxchaves To be fair, the Miata weighs significantly less than the BRZ/GR86, so of course it less space as a consequence. That's kind of the whole point of the car. Either way, nobody buys sports car with any real expectations for storage space. That's what a daily is for.
why do people keep saying that mostly subaru designed it? I know they manufacture it but Tetsuya Tada from toyota originally developed the platform, the FT86. We know that the engine has toyota's d4s system in it, the transmission and the diff are both toyota parts. Subaru doesn't make a single other rear wheel drive vehicle they would have never designed the car on their own. Not to mention toyota owns like 15 to 20 percent of subaru.
I like it as a naturally aspirated car but it just lacks the get-up-and-go that a turbo or supercharger would add. Thanks for the well done and thought-out video.
@@charlesxchaves I have a 2022 BRZ with about 55,000 miles on it. I supercharged it this spring. I'm at around 300 wheel hp. It's just so much fun to drive as a daily. Not that it was bad in any way stock. I just wanted more giddy-up.
modern era of cars is actually pretty wack. the 4-cylinder mustang has a 4.5 second 0-60 and 315hp. 300+hp is basically normal now. 5 second 0-60 is family car fast. What's even going on? I feel like the average driver is now getting way more horsepower than they can competently or safely use, but that's what sells right now, but they really aren't designed to be able to use anywhere near all that power without doing the 'mustang at cars&coffee' photo op. GRZ compares well to 90s-oughts performance cars in straightline speed, but so does a Toyoya Sequoia.
@@entropy11 interesting you brought up the 90s -- part of 86/BRZ's charm, for me, is that its driving characteristics and interior design bring me back to those late 80s and 90s coupes I grew up driving. Nostalgia with a modern skin and MUCH better chassis. Anyway, you're right vehicles these days have so much speed and power -- you have to wonder if and when there's a culmination point
Dude, the average driver doesn't even notice the light went green! People are not exploiting there cars at all. And sports cars sell like shit these days so I don't think HP has the attraction it used to. In car tech seems more important to people now.
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fine i’ll buy a gr86
Only cheeseburger people say these cars are slow
I own a BR86 and love it, but i think why people say it's too slow is for two main reasons. hp per dollar and it "looks" like it's fast. A lot of straight line driving in the states and there are a lot of cars with faster 0-60's in the same price range. I've owned plenty faster cars but they were not nearly as fun to drive as the new BR86, which I think is the most important factor to a sports car.
Absolutely well said. What other cars did you have in the past? My most recent prior to the BRZ was a S550 Mustang GT
If you want straight line brainless no skill driving experience, get a heavy turbo/supercharged boat aka mustang hellcat whatever.
The japanese twins were made for tuners with modularity in mind. Hence the NA motor. I'm glad they went with the NA route, keeps costs down and boosts reliability, while keeping options open in the future
Some good points but what cheaper car goes faster?
I can't think of one.
‘24 GR here. It does not lack any get up and go.
Perfect daily driver
Found this video. th-cam.com/video/5m9uw-Sdem4/w-d-xo.html 7:59 with GR86. All stock including brakes, pads, and fluids except wheels and tires, an oil cooler, and a oil pan baffle. The guy says that RTV was not an issue with this vehicle. Perhaps the newer GR86's and BRZ's have fixed the excessive RTV issue.
I could only find 1st Gen BRZ videos.
@@Dirtman150 that video is great -- a 07:59 puts the 86 with wheels, tires, and an oil cooler ahead of a F87 M2.
Totally agree with you that our perpective on speed has gotten insane. I own a 2nd gen BRZ and its plenty fast enough for me 90% of the time. I owned a C7 Z51, which would blow the doors clean off my BRZ, and yet this car puts a much bigger smile on my face.
Only thing I'll point out is that tire tech has big one of the biggest 21st century evolutions in car performance. I'd bet, if you could put some of those classics on the same set of shoes that come on the top trim twins, those numbers might change quite a bit.
That C7 will get you to jail quickly, the BRZ will get to 60mph and feels plenty fast, safe fun.
The C7, nannies off, will kill you quickly and think nothing of it. It was an absolutely phenomenal car but, turn everything off, and you learned real fast that computers were doing a lions share of the work to make it so good.
As a 2023 BRZ limited owner, love your channel so far. Hope you get more subscribers! Your content is just about perfect for what I am interested in.
I live in the mountains of southern NM with awesome roads and very few people. Lots of tight turns. Even with altitude from 8-9500ft with the attendant loss of power, the BRZ is simply perfect.....after you pull the plug on the sound synthesizer. And, because I hardly ever have to stop, I routinely average well over 30mpg, even while hammering the car around corners. I even don't think it is that loud, except for really rough gravelly pavement.
Love the Edmunds U-turn video where the BRZ beat the new turbo WRX in acceleration. As the co owner (now with my son) of a Cobb Stage 2 2004 WRX wagon, I can say that the old WRX is faster, but does not handle near as well.
We have lots of bumps mid corner here, and I am amazed how the BRZ just ignores the bumps even when pulling serious G's. I wonder how well the GR86 would handle them with the stiffer setup? Maybe something to review for you?
BTW, just replaced my initial set of Michelin PS4's with the new PS5's instead of the PS4S or other options. Seriously impressed with this new tire that just became available in the US. And have to like the 30000mi warranty.
Can you tell me where you got the 8:27 number for the BRZ? Was it stock? Is there a video?
Another BTW, I am always amazed at all the people who say Subaru should have added a turbo to the BRZ. With Subaru's current design, this is basically impossible which people should be made aware of. The pre 2015 cars had the turbo plumbed to the right rear of the engine towards the top. My 2004 wagon is like this. However, starting in 2015, they plumbed the turbo at the bottom right rear of the engine to shorten the exhaust runner length and reduce turbo lag. The turbo is basically under the engine. My 2017 Forester XT is like this. With the extremely low ride height of the BRZ, the turbo design that Subaru uses for the 2.4 simply would not fit without raising the engine significantly. Something you obviously don't want to do with the low Center of Gravity vehicle.
Anyhoo, love your channel. Keep it up!
Hey thanks for the support -- it looks like we're cut from the same cloth 🤙.
100% agreed on how the BRZ soaks up bumps; comparing to a GR86 is a great idea! Also agreed with how a turbo, routed in an OEM style, would jeopardize the COG. A roots blower on an STi model though...I'd love to see it!
Here's the link for the 08:27 run: www.motor1.com/news/619839/toyota-gr86-nurburgring-lap-onboard/amp/
How do you like the PS5s? Any quieter? If you have a favorite road in your area too I'd love to get its name and check it out.
Thanks for posting up your thoughts 🤙
@@KonkrRoads I think the PS5's might be just a tad quieter. But the PS4's were not bad. But like all summer tires I have had, they get a bit louder as they wear (but then they handle more like slicks!).
I live by Cloudcroft New Mexico. Our house is at 7500ft and Cloudcroft is around 9000. The roads aren't particularly long and one you cannot ride in a loop. But The Sunspot highway (130 out of Cloudcroft, turn right on the Sunspot Observatory (hwy 6563 [which is the spectral wavelength of Hydrogen as an omage to the solar observatory!]) is 32 miles of wonderfullness......Rides along the ridge for most of it and then drops down to the town of Timberon. Tons of up and down and tight turns. This is better to ride on the weekdays or shoulder seasons as weekends have lots of tourists in the summer.
My go to quick ride loop is to go down to Mayhill and drive hwy 130 up to Cloudcroft which is around 30 miles for me. Good reason to run errands in Cloudcroft. 130 is usually pretty empty.
Then I also take hwy 82 east to hwy 24 and do the loop back to hwy130 through Pinon. This road is always empty.
You can also drive 244 to Ruidoso from Cloudcroft which is really pretty, but not as great a driving road as the others.
Do you ever get out this way? Aren't you in Hawaii?
@@Dirtman150 great data! I just Google-mapped Cloudcroft -- I can see why you drive there! You're not too far from the Coronado Trail in AZ too...ever go out that way?
I drove through NM on US40 a few years ago on a cross-country drive (in my wife's Outback 😎) -- beautiful area. Wish I had stopped to see the wavelength road and snapped a photo; that's about as unique as it gets!
@@KonkrRoads Been on the Coronado Trail (191) several times. Talk about awesome. A bit of a haul from here.
I also do a long loop from our house through Silver City to hwy 15, then 35, then 152 over Emory Pass in the Gila Wilderness of NM. Worth doing at some time.
@@KonkrRoads My wife has an Outback too. Ha! We are quite the Subaru family. I also have a 2017 Forester XT with the WRX engine. And I gave my son my 2004 WRX wagon with the Cobb stage 2 package which he still has. We kind of co own it and I get to drive it anytime we go visit.....I still love that car. That 2L engine with the 7000 rpm redline is so much better than the poor excuse they have in the WRX today (with the 6000 redline). I had planned on getting the new STI when it came out.....until it didn't. Hence my vector to the BRZ. And so glad I went that way. Completely different experience. May keep it forever.
I agree with the sentiments of this video but there is no way in hell the GR86 or BRZ stock is doing a 5.4 second 0 to 60 from a dig. For reference here is a video of the BRZ from Australia (where the car has 233 hp instead of the US's 228 hp) and the best time they could get is 6.54 to 100kph (which is 0 to 62 mph) and he has tested many cars on that exact strip of road. Does anyone have footage of this supposed 5.4 second 0 to 60? th-cam.com/video/S_TCFurnSlE/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=DrivingEnthusiast
I don't have a C&D video, and don't know their secrets to the fast time, but what's also interesting is they achieved the 5.4 0-60 in both the GR86 and BRZ independently. The BRZ in their test finished 0.1sec faster in the quarter mile at 13.9 as opposed to the GR86's 14.0:
BRZ: www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a37419688/2022-subaru-brz-drive/
GR86: www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a37322814/2022-toyota-gr86-drive/
62 means additional shift (2nd to 3rd gear). For 60, it's only one shift and hitting redline at 60mph.
@@KonkrRoads the "secret" to an absolute best 0-60 time is to give your clutch and transmission absolute death. Launch a car like you literally stole it and do not have any concern for its longevity and it can return the absolute shortest 0-60 time.
Which is why 0-60 is pointless despite being ballyhooed all the time. In the real world, no owner is going to do that unless they're sitting on a mountain of cash to fix/replace the transmission.
I can resolve this difference for you. The 5.4 figure comes from C&D and they omit 1ft of roll-out. That equates to .3 sec reduction in 0-60 time, meaning a real time of 5.7 sec.
On the other side you are quoting some random outlet from Australia that tested to 62mph and they did it on a public road which likely does not have the grip of C&D's test track.
In reality this is a high fives car with a capable driver at the helm. With an average driver, more like low 6's.
Dude - great video. We have a GR86 and LOVE it; I'll be posting some more autocross videos, which is where I think this car really shines. Small youtubers and GR86/BRZ lovers unite!!!
@@DrivenbyOwen you have yourself a new subscriber 😎🤙. Nice AutoX info vid. Keep up the good work!
@KonkrRoads oh man you rock! Thx so much!
My 2022 Camaro LT1 6-speed was 35K MSRP. 6.2l V8, 455hp and torque, tremec 6 speed, front brembos, 20in wheels, LSD, etc all standard. New BRZ are like 30-35K which to me seems absurd. They are plenty fun but i sometimes find it hard to justify paying so much. Especially since theyve been having engine issues and its not like they get 30mpg combined and insurance is cheap.
@@ayushmalpeddi2793 I'm still unsure on how Chevrolet offered the LT1 at such a bargain price -- even removing the 2.5% tariff on the BRZ doesn't price it out to an advantage. Bottom line: I think the BRZ and 86 are perfectly priced...the LT1 was just a deal of the decade if a musclecar floats the boat. 🤙
Well Camaro is dead and lets face it, the way an enthusiast would spec it out would significantly raise the price.
Only people who have never driven an 86, RX8, S2k will say they are slow. Btw Kalanianaole Hwy Views. Hawaiiian!
Well said, and great eye! I love driving that area of the island. You on Oahu??
@@KonkrRoads I just a haole who likes to visit often :)
I don't own one. But I gotta say, the biggest problem with the BRZ/GR86 isn't it's speed. It's the owners who feel the need to defend the car for some weird insecurity reasons. You don't see Miata owners (closest comparison) doing this nonsense. They bought the car they liked, because they like the car, end of story.
Are you kidding, they're worse! They always keep chanting "Miata is always the answer!"
@@ghrtt7😂 Let's see the Miata carry my camera gear, Rifle etc.
"...but my car is lighter"
Oh no my man, the Miata also takes a lot of flack too. "It's a hairdresser's car" being the top criticism and "it's a toy".
@@charlesxchaves To be fair, the Miata weighs significantly less than the BRZ/GR86, so of course it less space as a consequence. That's kind of the whole point of the car. Either way, nobody buys sports car with any real expectations for storage space. That's what a daily is for.
why do people keep saying that mostly subaru designed it? I know they manufacture it but Tetsuya Tada from toyota originally developed the platform, the FT86. We know that the engine has toyota's d4s system in it, the transmission and the diff are both toyota parts. Subaru doesn't make a single other rear wheel drive vehicle they would have never designed the car on their own. Not to mention toyota owns like 15 to 20 percent of subaru.
It's all about perspective
I like it as a naturally aspirated car but it just lacks the get-up-and-go that a turbo or supercharger would add. Thanks for the well done and thought-out video.
Do you own or have driven one?
@@charlesxchaves I have a 2022 BRZ with about 55,000 miles on it. I supercharged it this spring. I'm at around 300 wheel hp. It's just so much fun to drive as a daily. Not that it was bad in any way stock. I just wanted more giddy-up.
modern era of cars is actually pretty wack. the 4-cylinder mustang has a 4.5 second 0-60 and 315hp.
300+hp is basically normal now. 5 second 0-60 is family car fast. What's even going on? I feel like the average driver is now getting way more horsepower than they can competently or safely use, but that's what sells right now, but they really aren't designed to be able to use anywhere near all that power without doing the 'mustang at cars&coffee' photo op.
GRZ compares well to 90s-oughts performance cars in straightline speed, but so does a Toyoya Sequoia.
@@entropy11 interesting you brought up the 90s -- part of 86/BRZ's charm, for me, is that its driving characteristics and interior design bring me back to those late 80s and 90s coupes I grew up driving. Nostalgia with a modern skin and MUCH better chassis. Anyway, you're right vehicles these days have so much speed and power -- you have to wonder if and when there's a culmination point
Dude, the average driver doesn't even notice the light went green! People are not exploiting there cars at all.
And sports cars sell like shit these days so I don't think HP has the attraction it used to. In car tech seems more important to people now.
Just add boost baby!