See 16:09 for why continuing to bet turn to setup the river jam works better to ensure we can get all the money in since many players are not going to bluff or value bet enough when trying to get a check raise in.
For this particular hand the money was going in either way but for future scenarios like this one I agree that betting the turn to setup the river shove is better than check raising the turn.
can anyone help explain why you don't check jam the turn? You don't have much behind in terms of making a significant bet on the river and it has actual fold equity. Any heart is scary, any QJT9 are all potentially scary, are we just that confident we are best and jamming is playing scared?
Its about a pot sized jam, and not only could we do it with a flush draw, we could do it against a flush draw and kill his equity or an ace high flush draw which might even call. If he is going to fold everything except a 3, he is very exploitable.
@@MrCarlSellarswhat 3 is in the villains range? And it isn’t unreasonable to think villain might call with KQ. The idea is to put these hands in a tricky spot.
I definitely think if we’re going to check-raise turn it should just be a check-jam. If this kid is maniacal he’s not folding heart draws (and we don’t want him to) or KQ/KJ. And if he does fold, maybe he’ll think twice about betting every time we check to him with a medium strength hand in future.
@@pot_kivach160 caller said villain was splashy. If villain is a more standard tight player then check-raising is just a bad play regardless of the sizing.
How do you know villain’s not splashy? He turned up with a real hand here, but maniacs still get dealt good hands as often as everyone else. They just play the trashy hands as well.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj I suppose I don’t but the basic definition of a splashy player isn’t someone who just splashes around but rather someone who waste too many hands knowledge about the game and or discipline. This play seemed disciplined by the villain.
This is a tough one. you can do everything right and still get caught on the River. Not like it would matter in this situation but i would have jammed the Turn and just hope MP folds.
I'd check shove turn. Haven't seen reveal yet. Ok seen reveal.now. Woulda been same result. Villian calls for sure and shafts us on river Caller sounds like the stereotype omc
The turn improves essentially none of the villain's range. Just bet 250 on turn and shove river, why complicate things when stacks are so shallow? this is an easy bet, bet jam line and the fact he had KJ is not even relevant. He's going to call you with KQ, KT and QQ here sometimes
Think I've been watching way too much of Bart lately as I had the clock called on me three times last session, but it just takes a minute to construct all ranges when they lead out, call, raise, etc and from every street, in every position, then to calculate my own equity (adjusted by fold equity of course, player specific), what my defend frequencies should be, how much equity I should be denying by betting...versus checking behind to realizing my equity for free, all while remaining as un-exploitable as possible to not get run over. On and on it never ends. Thanks Bart
I think Michael G’s a nice guy.. but don’t let him ever teach poker again. (For example: the podcast episode he did).. he’s not a beast at poker. (Just observing from the way he talks about hands.)
Why are you just assuming villain can't possibly have A3s...or even A3o? The whole theory of your course is that one will be playing against bad players; a bad player could certainly have A3, 63, 53, 43, 32, K3s, Q3s....
I don't think check-raise here is wise. If the villain is bluffing here - you shutdown that potential. If villain has a flush draw - he may fold on a paired board. If Villain has a K - he may even fold. I like check-call turn better. I like bet of 50% pot even better.
If he goes for the check-raise turn line, I think a jam is good. Check raising small just can’t be good, gives all A-x of hearts or any hearts pot odds. If you do jam AK on the turn you put any K(x) into a tricky spot.
If you aren’t going to value the turn and go for the check, jamming the turn makes way more sense than calling and leading river. You give any hand you beat on the turn a chance to beat you 15:48 on the river. (Heart draws and K(x)) You can get away with doing that on a board that you have dominated with like top boat or something, but realistically what is he losing to on the turn, slow played aces??? The SPR is only like 9/7 or around 1.2. Idk the hero seems fishy to me.
Way to overcomplicate an easy spot, thats fancy play at its finest. You got TPTK in a 3bet SPR 4 postflop spot, just bet/bet/bet reasonable sizes and you're allin by the river. Balance that with some bluffs (AQ, QJs for example), and you're fine. They just found a way to mess up an easy situation; better concentrate on things like BB defence, overcalling and 3bet frequencies from various positions, turn barrell frequencies etc This here is just button clicking
Tbf the result would have been exactly the same against villain’s exact hand. And if villain is indeed maniacal (which is certainly open to question) then maybe hero wins a bit more vs villain’s complete airball on the turn.
_just bet/bet/bet reasonable sizes and you're allin by the river_ yeah..just bet, bet, bet...and they call, call, call and show you A3h on river. And, yes, simply you lost entire stack thanks for your simple play!
Hero’s getting some grief in the comments but I don’t mind his play IF his read on villain as splashy/maniacal is correct. Versus a straightforward player just bet turn. However, even against a maniacal player, if you’re going to check-raise I’d probably just check-jam. I think that actually looks more credible as a bluff.
Yeah it’s all random.. that’s why there are poker pro’s who profit millions of dollars in their life - because they simply got lucky with the randomness factor.
@@supersmoo7377 there are plenty of people who have made millions in poker simply off of luck. To act like there aren’t would demonstrate your lack of knowledge about the game.
See 16:09 for why continuing to bet turn to setup the river jam works better to ensure we can get all the money in since many players are not going to bluff or value bet enough when trying to get a check raise in.
For this particular hand the money was going in either way but for future scenarios like this one I agree that betting the turn to setup the river shove is better than check raising the turn.
can anyone help explain why you don't check jam the turn? You don't have much behind in terms of making a significant bet on the river and it has actual fold equity. Any heart is scary, any QJT9 are all potentially scary, are we just that confident we are best and jamming is playing scared?
Its about a pot sized jam, and not only could we do it with a flush draw, we could do it against a flush draw and kill his equity or an ace high flush draw which might even call.
If he is going to fold everything except a 3, he is very exploitable.
@@MrCarlSellarswhat 3 is in the villains range? And it isn’t unreasonable to think villain might call with KQ. The idea is to put these hands in a tricky spot.
I definitely think if we’re going to check-raise turn it should just be a check-jam. If this kid is maniacal he’s not folding heart draws (and we don’t want him to) or KQ/KJ.
And if he does fold, maybe he’ll think twice about betting every time we check to him with a medium strength hand in future.
only a better hand would called ya. So, it is a no-win/lose option. If you're happy to go that way, I have no objections.
@@pot_kivach160 caller said villain was splashy.
If villain is a more standard tight player then check-raising is just a bad play regardless of the sizing.
Congrats on breaking 100k subs!
This dude sounds like the dog that replaced Brian on Family Guy
I think the real issue here is that the villain is Not splashy. From the villains perspective, everything makes sense.
How do you know villain’s not splashy?
He turned up with a real hand here, but maniacs still get dealt good hands as often as everyone else. They just play the trashy hands as well.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj I suppose I don’t but the basic definition of a splashy player isn’t someone who just splashes around but rather someone who waste too many hands knowledge about the game and or discipline. This play seemed disciplined by the villain.
Not splashy?? would a reasonable balanced player call Turn x/r with a top pair third kicker against a pf 3-bettor and all streets aggressor?
@@pot_kivach160all 2 streets
This is a tough one. you can do everything right and still get caught on the River. Not like it would matter in this situation but i would have jammed the Turn and just hope MP folds.
Poker’s not dead 😅
A lot of jx of heart hands are going to check back river it is a must jam
I'd check shove turn. Haven't seen reveal yet.
Ok seen reveal.now.
Woulda been same result. Villian calls for sure and shafts us on river
Caller sounds like the stereotype omc
The turn improves essentially none of the villain's range. Just bet 250 on turn and shove river, why complicate things when stacks are so shallow? this is an easy bet, bet jam line and the fact he had KJ is not even relevant. He's going to call you with KQ, KT and QQ here sometimes
Think I've been watching way too much of Bart lately as I had the clock called on me three times last session, but it just takes a minute to construct all ranges when they lead out, call, raise, etc and from every street, in every position, then to calculate my own equity (adjusted by fold equity of course, player specific), what my defend frequencies should be, how much equity I should be denying by betting...versus checking behind to realizing my equity for free, all while remaining as un-exploitable as possible to not get run over. On and on it never ends. Thanks Bart
My guess was KQ clubs because I think KJ suited is a bit weak to call that cold 3 bet
Hero looks so strong 💪 opponent should have ya beat when he calls raise on turn usually kq and kj only 66 and 45 hearts continues… and of course AA
I think Michael G’s a nice guy.. but don’t let him ever teach poker again. (For example: the podcast episode he did).. he’s not a beast at poker. (Just observing from the way he talks about hands.)
Why are you just assuming villain can't possibly have A3s...or even A3o? The whole theory of your course is that one will be playing against bad players; a bad player could certainly have A3, 63, 53, 43, 32, K3s, Q3s....
Where are these guys at my local game 🤦 caller says “he may have Queens” 😂😂😂
On turn, ALSO 4h5h possible...
I don't think check-raise here is wise. If the villain is bluffing here - you shutdown that potential. If villain has a flush draw - he may fold on a paired board. If Villain has a K - he may even fold. I like check-call turn better. I like bet of 50% pot even better.
If he goes for the check-raise turn line, I think a jam is good. Check raising small just can’t be good, gives all A-x of hearts or any hearts pot odds. If you do jam AK on the turn you put any K(x) into a tricky spot.
So what if villain folds a flush draw. We’ll take it when the pots big and we c/r rip turn 😊
Mike g getting roasted by Bart does not make me want to listen to mikes podcast
"His range is Kx, or a heart draw." Or an f'ing 3!
Yeah, not a huge fan of a check-raise on the turn. Overcomplicates a reasonably straightforward spot. Call turn ->>>>>lead river feels a lot better.
If you aren’t going to value the turn and go for the check, jamming the turn makes way more sense than calling and leading river. You give any hand you beat on the turn a chance to beat you 15:48 on the river. (Heart draws and K(x)) You can get away with doing that on a board that you have dominated with like top boat or something, but realistically what is he losing to on the turn, slow played aces??? The SPR is only like 9/7 or around 1.2. Idk the hero seems fishy to me.
SPR was 1.34* (point still stands)
Call turn lead river is a line that fish who don’t know what they’re doing use. Just bet the turn and jam river.
Way to overcomplicate an easy spot, thats fancy play at its finest. You got TPTK in a 3bet SPR 4 postflop spot, just bet/bet/bet reasonable sizes and you're allin by the river. Balance that with some bluffs (AQ, QJs for example), and you're fine.
They just found a way to mess up an easy situation; better concentrate on things like BB defence, overcalling and 3bet frequencies from various positions, turn barrell frequencies etc
This here is just button clicking
What about all those other hands below top pair, which ones will protect your turn checks ?
Tbf the result would have been exactly the same against villain’s exact hand.
And if villain is indeed maniacal (which is certainly open to question) then maybe hero wins a bit more vs villain’s complete airball on the turn.
_just bet/bet/bet reasonable sizes and you're allin by the river_
yeah..just bet, bet, bet...and they call, call, call and show you A3h on river.
And, yes, simply you lost entire stack thanks for your simple play!
@@pot_kivach160 your point being? If you dont get value owned sometimes, you're not betting thinly enough
this caller has no idea
With all do respect to Michael G but how is he your prospect. His thought process is asinine
And this is what you call due respect?
That's interesting
when your boss is exposing your weaknesses, brush up your resume. ;o(
Is the kid really splashy or does he just play 20% hands and this OMC thinks he’s a maniac? 😊
Hero’s getting some grief in the comments but I don’t mind his play IF his read on villain as splashy/maniacal is correct.
Versus a straightforward player just bet turn.
However, even against a maniacal player, if you’re going to check-raise I’d probably just check-jam. I think that actually looks more credible as a bluff.
You talk about these hands as if every person plays the same lol. You have no idea what any random player could do on any random hand. None.
Yeah it’s all random.. that’s why there are poker pro’s who profit millions of dollars in their life - because they simply got lucky with the randomness factor.
@@supersmoo7377 there are plenty of people who have made millions in poker simply off of luck. To act like there aren’t would demonstrate your lack of knowledge about the game.
😂
1010-qq 😂😂😂😂 yeah ok he calls turn check raise with thode hands...