[IT] Il limite massimo di potenza nominale per le bici elettriche in Italia è di 250W. Anche limitando la velocità a 25Km/h, una bicicletta che sviluppi una potenza nominale maggiore di 250W (anche 500W) non si può usare sulle strade pubbliche Italiane. Chi lo fa si assume la responsabilità delle proprie azioni (e contravvenzioni). Questo video è da intendersi a solo scopo dimostrativo e NON è da intendersi come esempio da imitare. Poichè è destinato ad un audience più ampio che l'Europa, è stato scelto un 500W come esempio per mostrare le capacità del motore. --- [FR] La puissance nominale maximale autorisée pour les vélos électriques en France est de 250W. Même si la vitesse est limitée à 25 km/h, un vélo qui développe une puissance nominale supérieure à 250W (même 500W) ne peut pas être utilisé sur la voie publique français. Ceux qui le font s'assument la responsabilité de leurs actions (et amendes). Cette vidéo est finalisé uniquement à la démonstration et n'est PAS à un exemple à imiter. Comme il est destiné à un public plus large que l'Europe, un 500W a été choisi comme exemple pour montrer les capacités du moteur.
I have been testing both mid drive systems. The main difference is in the pedal assist , if you want a bike that feels like you are still pedaling and it will help you go faster, father and up steeper hills the Tongsheng fits that bill. While the Bafang paddle assist basically feels like you are using your feet as a throttle , not a realistic pedaling experience. It comes down to weather you want an Electric bicycle or an Electric motored bike.
I concur. Originally, e-motors were meant for providing some assistance. We should still be physically active, but get some support when climbing up sloops, or accelerating. To me it's also fun to do something and pedal. I mean really pedal, not rolling the pedals only to keep the motor engaged. If people wish to have the riding style like a moped, to my opinion they should better buy a moped.
Just a suggestion for a video would be where the programming for both motors has been optimized since the stock settings on both motors are in need of improvement. Just a couple of other considerations is the Tongsheng does not need the Brake Levers with motor interrupters or the Gear Shift interrupter. 3 places where you could have continuity faults. Also, if you need to repair the internals, on the Tongsheng it is far simpler to access & repair.
Thank you for putting this comparison out. :) Helped to choose my next ebike conversion for my friend. Will be going with BBS02 kit only because it is more powerful and the range savings is not that different.
Hey! I'm happy to help 😊 consider that the difference is negligible at 10Km, but the percentage stays the same: the bigger the distance, the more is the consumption by the BBS02B Consider the range you want to cover to choose the right battery 😉
I have a bafang 500W 36V and a tongsheng 350W 36V. I can't decide which is best, the bikes are similar, both are carerra, ie halfords. The bafang 500W has a 15AH battery but the tongsheng 350W has a 10AH battery
You can use power meter (watteter and WH meter) to get more acurate result. And you must ride always at 25 kmph with trotle on both bike at same distance to get wery acurate results...
I'm still not sure! I have a Bafang 500 Watt 36V. Now I want a second kit 250 Watt or maybe 350 Watt. To stay 'legal'. If I order a second Bafang it will be easy to swap the motors in case I want more power without having to change cables, brake levers and display. But on the other hand the Tongsheng will have less ghost pedaling. And it will have longer range probably. Especially with my solar roof. Still, I'm not sure the Tongsheng will help my bad legs? With the Bafang I can use the throttle whenever I like. For example to get out of the way for a truck on an uphill. So how does that work on the Tongsheng? Another question is if 250 Watt is enough? I plan to go up a pass in the Alps. That's why I thought maybe the police will let me off with 350 Watt? I am definitely not going to wear a silly helmet and get a moped license! My solar trike weighs 50 kilo with all the luggage. I am 90 kilo. I'm afraid 250 Watt won't get me up a mountain. So that's it! Tongsheng will be more like cycling. Bafang will be easier for my legs. You can't decide for me of course.
hello! I have riden tongsheng tsdz2 in 6 different bicycles and for more than 1000km. also i have put a power meter between the battery and motor. if you go uphill, the motor will use 15a continuous. which is more than 500w, depending on your actual battery voltage. if your battery is full and the motor draws 15a then this calculates to 615w. this is with a motor that is sold as 250w. also this is 100% legal. as the average output of the motor must not be over 250w. but it can peak at much more for short time periodes. this means if you go uphill for long time, the motor will pull 500-600w all time. keep an eye on motor temperature if you are doing this.
@@Gabriel.Leni100 Thanks. I have ordered a 36V 350Watt Tongsheng, with 250Watt stickers. So it isn't legal. But I never go faster than 25km/h. Hopefully the police won't start making a problem.
@@driewiel there is no differenc between 250 350 or 500w. All the same. Also cost the same. Its only marketing. So dont worry about the police. They would give you trouble if you would try to convince them that a BBSHD motor only has 250w. 😄 But the tsdz2 is so small, it looks like 250w 👍🏼
@@Gabriel.Leni100 Yes probably. What I do know about Bafang, the 250 and 350Watt are the same weight. 500 Watt and up is a heavier motor. One thing that also makes e-assist illegal is the throttle. Not allowed in the Netherlands. But I won't ride without. For my trike it is a safety feature.
I have a bafang BBS01b 36v 250w kit just installed it this week on my mountain bike in the UK. I want to keep it legal to ride at 250 watt, but i notice that BBS01 uses more than 250 watt. I gues its just the stamp on the motor for continuous use of 250 watt that makes it UK/Europe legal. I find that BBS01b is annoying to pedal as you get can feel this extra pedal resistance and really find you need to use the throttle to help it out. That does not makes sense as a motor is supposed to help you. So i am curious when you say TDSZ gives you bionic legs. With the BBS01B i can use the throttle to hold down and it allows you to go beyond the typicall pedalling+motor watts so its more like a motor bike. I can go pretty fast this way but i cant see how it can be used when going off road safely. As i want to use my mountain bike on trails off road this worries me. I reprogrammed the motor to have 18 amps and i cant really notice much difference though i can see it uses more watts. I now consider to buy a TSDZ 250 watt for the torque sensing which i think will take away the annoying feeling of the bafang pedelling and better control at lower speed and going up hill as your pedalling is an important way to control the bike off road, but worry that it wont be as capable as the Bafang. I saw some videos and websites about the open source firmware for the TSDZ and wonder if that would be enough to satisfy me now that I tried the bafang. I thought with the TDSZ there was no throttle and you have to pedal as many reviers say this in comparing to the bafang, but i can see that you have a throttle and some models come with it, can i ask how does the throttle compare to the bafang? Can i reuse my battery 36v and P850c display with the TDSZ?
you can find some answers about the throttle here th-cam.com/video/T7ve958hJXE/w-d-xo.html about the P850c display I'm not sure if you can use it with the TSDZ2 I will definitely try some custom firmware soon, hope you will follow that!
Luke se io faccio un promedio di 20km al giorno con 2 salute medie, quasi sempre per godermi meglio la pedalata e raggiungere il mio posto di lavoro, cosa mi consigliarmi come motore ha nivelo di durata, e qualità prezzo.
Hey Mark, yes I think you definitely can! Check the back of your display, you should have an available port for the throttle connection th-cam.com/video/T7ve958hJXE/w-d-xo.html
most of the ones sold in the US came with the throttle connection wired in on the controller, yes. even if yours is EU spec, you can solder to that point and flash the board to use it. That said, the Tongsheng is basically a 250watt design with not fantastic cooling. So be a bit careful with lots of throttle use, lest you cook and demagnetize the motor.
Depends on the mid-drive. The motor has to have the throttle connector, and not all do, there's a few different connectors out there as well, so you have to find a connector that matches You CAN solder a throttle connector to a TSDZ2's controller (it's inside the motor housing with the actual motor and all the gears) but it's a pain and involves flashing firmware.
I have changed the nylon gear on my TSDZ2 500w. Makes a little moere noise, but are more durable. I can recommend to do that. Also give the motor some grease, it is easy to pick apart. But the bolts are poor so i changed them too.
Hey! I also bought it but I still haven't mounted it. I think I'll do it in a day off from work when my girl don't need her bike. Just one question: do you need to remove the motor from the frame in order to replace it?
@@LukeLorusso Yes, it will be more easy to remove the motor. I did it, but I think it is possible to do it without removing. You might loose small bolts etc. Remember the bolts on the covering are poor. I bought new bolts from the hardwarestore.
si... ma no. eroga a qualunque livello di assistenza la stessa potenza, che però viene erogata in maniera progressiva e inferiore alle reali capacità del motore. th-cam.com/video/T7ve958hJXE/w-d-xo.html guarda questo video per capire cosa intendo
Hi seabastia, no resistance is felt when pedaling both motors switched off :) for a more in-depth axperience see this th-cam.com/video/T7ve958hJXE/w-d-xo.html
[IT] Il limite massimo di potenza nominale per le bici elettriche in Italia è di 250W. Anche limitando la velocità a 25Km/h, una bicicletta che sviluppi una potenza nominale maggiore di 250W (anche 500W) non si può usare sulle strade pubbliche Italiane. Chi lo fa si assume la responsabilità delle proprie azioni (e contravvenzioni).
Questo video è da intendersi a solo scopo dimostrativo e NON è da intendersi come esempio da imitare. Poichè è destinato ad un audience più ampio che l'Europa, è stato scelto un 500W come esempio per mostrare le capacità del motore.
---
[FR] La puissance nominale maximale autorisée pour les vélos électriques en France est de 250W. Même si la vitesse est limitée à 25 km/h, un vélo qui développe une puissance nominale supérieure à 250W (même 500W) ne peut pas être utilisé sur la voie publique français. Ceux qui le font s'assument la responsabilité de leurs actions (et amendes).
Cette vidéo est finalisé uniquement à la démonstration et n'est PAS à un exemple à imiter. Comme il est destiné à un public plus large que l'Europe, un 500W a été choisi comme exemple pour montrer les capacités du moteur.
I have been testing both mid drive systems. The main difference is in the pedal assist , if you want a bike that feels like you are still pedaling and it will help you go faster, father and up steeper hills the Tongsheng fits that bill. While the Bafang paddle assist basically feels like you are using your feet as a throttle , not a realistic pedaling experience. It comes down to weather you want an Electric bicycle or an Electric motored bike.
I concur.
Originally, e-motors were meant for providing some assistance. We should still be physically active, but get some support when climbing up sloops, or accelerating. To me it's also fun to do something and pedal. I mean really pedal, not rolling the pedals only to keep the motor engaged.
If people wish to have the riding style like a moped, to my opinion they should better buy a moped.
Mopeds need insurance etc so you dont really own it and you cant ride wgere you want
Thanks Luke. I've got a Tongsheng motor in front of me waiting to be mounted. Your videos have been a great resource
Hey Barry! I'm very happy to be helpful. Good luck with your build, I hope you'll love it like I do with mine
Thank you, very helpful as I am trying to decide between the two. Appreciate the thoughtful analysis. Happy cycling.
Just a suggestion for a video would be where the programming for both motors has been optimized since the stock settings on both motors are in need of improvement. Just a couple of other considerations is the Tongsheng does not need the Brake Levers with motor interrupters or the Gear Shift interrupter. 3 places where you could have continuity faults. Also, if you need to repair the internals, on the Tongsheng it is far simpler to access & repair.
Thank you for putting this comparison out. :) Helped to choose my next ebike conversion for my friend. Will be going with BBS02 kit only because it is more powerful and the range savings is not that different.
Hey! I'm happy to help 😊
consider that the difference is negligible at 10Km, but the percentage stays the same: the bigger the distance, the more is the consumption by the BBS02B
Consider the range you want to cover to choose the right battery 😉
Bro this video was so helpful and well thought of. Good job
Really useful set of tests and well presented / shot. Many thanks!
Since you asked: My average speed with the tdsz2 48v is between 34,5 and 39kmh on my 24km long commute. 6km is city driving, the rest is full send.
how fast do you go when you send it ?
I'm thinking Tongsheng. The premade bikes I've test ridden have been the ones I've liked.
I have a bafang 500W 36V and a tongsheng 350W 36V. I can't decide which is best, the bikes are similar, both are carerra, ie halfords.
The bafang 500W has a 15AH battery but the tongsheng 350W has a 10AH battery
You can use power meter (watteter and WH meter) to get more acurate result. And you must ride always at 25 kmph with trotle on both bike at same distance to get wery acurate results...
But smaller power motors usualy is more power saving, then speed is low.
I'm still not sure! I have a Bafang 500 Watt 36V. Now I want a second kit 250 Watt or maybe 350 Watt. To stay 'legal'.
If I order a second Bafang it will be easy to swap the motors in case I want more power without having to change cables, brake levers and display.
But on the other hand the Tongsheng will have less ghost pedaling. And it will have longer range probably. Especially with my solar roof.
Still, I'm not sure the Tongsheng will help my bad legs? With the Bafang I can use the throttle whenever I like. For example to get out of the way for a truck on an uphill. So how does that work on the Tongsheng?
Another question is if 250 Watt is enough? I plan to go up a pass in the Alps. That's why I thought maybe the police will let me off with 350 Watt? I am definitely not going to wear a silly helmet and get a moped license! My solar trike weighs 50 kilo with all the luggage. I am 90 kilo. I'm afraid 250 Watt won't get me up a mountain.
So that's it! Tongsheng will be more like cycling. Bafang will be easier for my legs. You can't decide for me of course.
hello!
I have riden tongsheng tsdz2 in 6 different bicycles and for more than 1000km. also i have put a power meter between the battery and motor. if you go uphill, the motor will use 15a continuous. which is more than 500w, depending on your actual battery voltage. if your battery is full and the motor draws 15a then this calculates to 615w. this is with a motor that is sold as 250w. also this is 100% legal. as the average output of the motor must not be over 250w. but it can peak at much more for short time periodes.
this means if you go uphill for long time, the motor will pull 500-600w all time. keep an eye on motor temperature if you are doing this.
@@Gabriel.Leni100 Thanks. I have ordered a 36V 350Watt Tongsheng, with 250Watt stickers. So it isn't legal. But I never go faster than 25km/h. Hopefully the police won't start making a problem.
@@driewiel there is no differenc between 250 350 or 500w. All the same. Also cost the same. Its only marketing. So dont worry about the police. They would give you trouble if you would try to convince them that a BBSHD motor only has 250w. 😄
But the tsdz2 is so small, it looks like 250w 👍🏼
@@Gabriel.Leni100 Yes probably. What I do know about Bafang, the 250 and 350Watt are the same weight. 500 Watt and up is a heavier motor.
One thing that also makes e-assist illegal is the throttle. Not allowed in the Netherlands. But I won't ride without. For my trike it is a safety feature.
@@driewiel well in Austria and Germany a Throttle is legal up until 6kph. Maybe this is also the case in the netherlands?
I think, for "low speed" users is the TSDZ2 better.
Otherweise, the Bafang.
I am also wondering wich one will last more? Did you do any research on each forum? Do you think thongsen it's tough enough build?
I have a bafang BBS01b 36v 250w kit just installed it this week on my mountain bike in the UK. I want to keep it legal to ride at 250 watt, but i notice that BBS01 uses more than 250 watt. I gues its just the stamp on the motor for continuous use of 250 watt that makes it UK/Europe legal. I find that BBS01b is annoying to pedal as you get can feel this extra pedal resistance and really find you need to use the throttle to help it out. That does not makes sense as a motor is supposed to help you. So i am curious when you say TDSZ gives you bionic legs. With the BBS01B i can use the throttle to hold down and it allows you to go beyond the typicall pedalling+motor watts so its more like a motor bike. I can go pretty fast this way but i cant see how it can be used when going off road safely. As i want to use my mountain bike on trails off road this worries me. I reprogrammed the motor to have 18 amps and i cant really notice much difference though i can see it uses more watts. I now consider to buy a TSDZ 250 watt for the torque sensing which i think will take away the annoying feeling of the bafang pedelling and better control at lower speed and going up hill as your pedalling is an important way to control the bike off road, but worry that it wont be as capable as the Bafang. I saw some videos and websites about the open source firmware for the TSDZ and wonder if that would be enough to satisfy me now that I tried the bafang. I thought with the TDSZ there was no throttle and you have to pedal as many reviers say this in comparing to the bafang, but i can see that you have a throttle and some models come with it, can i ask how does the throttle compare to the bafang? Can i reuse my battery 36v and P850c display with the TDSZ?
you can find some answers about the throttle here th-cam.com/video/T7ve958hJXE/w-d-xo.html
about the P850c display I'm not sure if you can use it with the TSDZ2
I will definitely try some custom firmware soon, hope you will follow that!
Luke se io faccio un promedio di 20km al giorno con 2 salute medie, quasi sempre per godermi meglio la pedalata e raggiungere il mio posto di lavoro, cosa mi consigliarmi come motore ha nivelo di durata, e qualità prezzo.
Hi Luke I have a 48v 500 watt Tongsheng I’m in the US I believe I can add a throttle to this kit correct? Thanks
Hey Mark, yes I think you definitely can! Check the back of your display, you should have an available port for the throttle connection th-cam.com/video/T7ve958hJXE/w-d-xo.html
most of the ones sold in the US came with the throttle connection wired in on the controller, yes. even if yours is EU spec, you can solder to that point and flash the board to use it.
That said, the Tongsheng is basically a 250watt design with not fantastic cooling. So be a bit careful with lots of throttle use, lest you cook and demagnetize the motor.
I have a question I need your help how do I install a throttle to a mid drive motor need your help
Depends on the mid-drive. The motor has to have the throttle connector, and not all do, there's a few different connectors out there as well, so you have to find a connector that matches
You CAN solder a throttle connector to a TSDZ2's controller (it's inside the motor housing with the actual motor and all the gears) but it's a pain and involves flashing firmware.
Average speed over a 10mile commute with 300m climb = 37kmh non-ebike. EU speed laws on Ebikes are laughable.
They love that crown lol
I have changed the nylon gear on my TSDZ2 500w. Makes a little moere noise, but are more durable. I can recommend to do that. Also give the motor some grease, it is easy to pick apart. But the bolts are poor so i changed them too.
Hey! I also bought it but I still haven't mounted it. I think I'll do it in a day off from work when my girl don't need her bike.
Just one question: do you need to remove the motor from the frame in order to replace it?
@@LukeLorusso Yes, it will be more easy to remove the motor. I did it, but I think it is possible to do it without removing. You might loose small bolts etc. Remember the bolts on the covering are poor. I bought new bolts from the hardwarestore.
l'acceleratore del tdsz2 e dissociato dal livello di assistenza in poche parole da sempre la massima potenza del motore ? Grazie
si... ma no. eroga a qualunque livello di assistenza la stessa potenza, che però viene erogata in maniera progressiva e inferiore alle reali capacità del motore.
th-cam.com/video/T7ve958hJXE/w-d-xo.html guarda questo video per capire cosa intendo
Did you use the same accu pack on both bikes?
Hi! there are both Panasonic based 36v 15.6ah battery packs
Hi Luke , thanks for your videos. I have a question: how does the Tongsheng behave when riding it without a battery?resistance wise and noise wise ?
Hi seabastia, no resistance is felt when pedaling both motors switched off :)
for a more in-depth axperience see this th-cam.com/video/T7ve958hJXE/w-d-xo.html
Damn I miss my bbs02. Got stolen last week. :(
yeah but u forgot the temperatur!!! and the voltage shown on the p850/p860 display is faulty too
Nice testing. Too bad TSDZ2 has a Crappy quality.
Ma falli in italiano sti videooo