TREK CarBack vs GARMIN Varia Radar // The Ultimate Bike Radar Showdown
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มิ.ย. 2024
- The TREK CarBack Radar Tail Light launched in mid April 2024 with updated 77GHz radar technology they claim has a detection range of up to 240m, a full 100m more than other popular cycling radars on the market today. After purchasing a unit it only took a few minutes to discover the user experience wasn't exactly meeting expectations. What followed was some of the most extensive testing I've ever had to undertake to ensure something does what the manufacturer claims. So does it? Sometimes. It's complicated.
Links:
TREK CarBack Official Website: tinyurl.com/isthereacarback
Buy Garmin Varia Radars:
Garmin Varia Radar Light RTL515 (Amazon US): amzn.to/3gj7tXl
Garmin Varia Radar RVR315 (Amazon US): amzn.to/3bsm1jN
Garmin Varia Radar RCT715 (Amazon US): amzn.to/3LOZ5za
Video Index:
0:00 Intro
0:30 Testing Performed
1:17 Technical Specifications
2:48 Unit Weight / Comparisons
3:06 Pricing
3:22 What's in the Box
3:30 The Mount
3:53 Battery Life
5:08 Radar Claims
5:23 Approaching Lane Detection
6:03 Pre Testing - Notes
7:05 Initial Roadside Test
8:07 Initial On-Bike Test
13:32 Testing Feedback / Bugs
14:54 Side-by-Side Comparison Bryton
18:38 Side-by-Side Comparison Garmin Varia
20:26 Side-by-Side Comparison Garmin Varia Round 2
22:01 Ultimate Road Test
25:32 Ultimate Road Test Continued
28:27 Bike Path / Parallel Road Test
29:36 Approaching Cyclist Test
30:16 Windy Road Test (Radar Beam Width)
31:02 Following Vehicle Speed / Sensitivity
31:44 Bus Success!
32:41 Pros and Cons
34:25 Overall Summary / Thoughts
36:18 Wrap Up
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gplama.com
#TREK #Garmin #Cycling - กีฬา
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Grab the popcorn folks! You know when GP finds a way to make a 37 minute video about a product that’s supposed to simply “just work” we’re in a for a treat.
Not having the variable blinking when a car is detected is an absolute NO for me. It’s the defining feature I relish on my 515. Knowing a vehicle is back there sooner is great and all, but a disruptive pattern getting the attention of a texting driver is so much more important IMO
Agree on the blinking function! My wife says she can spot me from far when driving.
How about running bench test in the city?
Love my Garmin RTL515! No need for 240 m - what you need is a radar you can trust - every time.
What are benefits of radar? Honest question, got mirror now and not sure what extra benefits would got from radar.
@@MrVizzle You don't need to keep looking at mirror when you have radar. You can keep your eyes on the road ahead. When radar alerts you of an approaching vehicle by beeping head unit, you can then check your mirror. You will miss vehicles with only a mirror. My Garmin radar hasn't missed detecting a vehicle in the 2 years I've been using it. It's by far the best cycling accessory I've ever purchased.
@@MrVizzle When the garmin radar first appeared I thought it was a gimmick. After having had the RTL515 for about a year I don't want to miss it. I also have a mirror but I don't check back all the time anymore. When my head unit shows clear I am 100% certain that there is no car approaching from behind. On a busy road it's not that useful but on a road with low or occasional traffic it's great to be warned of approaching traffic.
@@MrVizzle To me there are two main additional benefits - it shows the speed from behind (so does not e.g. indicate cars that are going slower than yourself) which a mirror does not and you get an audible alert both when something is approaching and if it disappears. Less important but still an advantage is that it checks both sides, the mirror only “sees” to one side.
@@MrVizzle forgot to add that the blinking light when a car closes in makes you much more visible to the cars coming up. Onkly a radar does that for you.
Came after eight hours sitting at school back home, made myself a good coffee, opened TH-cam and relaxed at 37 minutes of beeping radars when cars are passing. Love it.
Here I am, suffering through 37 minutes of radar testing! Love the drone shots :)
Could be worse, Mrs Lama had to suffer through two weeks of me obsessing over this damn thing.... then I came home with another two of them and I even put one on her bike! 🤣
@@gplama 😅😅
I made it! Happy Saturday!
GPLama, put the third one on Little Lama and let the detecting competition begin! "If you sth red on your bike computer, say RED" :D
Blinking the light when a car approaches is like the best feature of these radar lights...
Agreed! Trek did mention they may look at a firmware update to allow this. At the moment they were confident enough with the visibility of the Flare flash/patterns to leave it as-is.
@@gplama Also the "brake light" when sudden brakes slow down the bike is very helpful for the cars/bikes behind. That way they know to behave as if it was a car braking.
I like the brake light feature on the kryptonite incite lights too. Really nice on group rides!
I would argue the light on the Garmin units is totally useless in daylight. I don’t think drivers would even notice the light. Compared to the flare rt. The flare as vary noticeable in bright daylight from over a mile away. I was really hopping this radar was going to be good. I run the Garmin radar pod with no light and a flare RT. I want to go to one unit. But I just don’t think vary many tail lights are actually visible or noticeable to drivers.
I have RTL515 and Ion/FlareRT via other apps you can do stuff like brake light on the flare, along with time of day / dusk etc but the native Bontrager support in my experience is sketchy, the ANT+ is forever unpairing when you charge unattended and then light network getting corrupted.
Trying to choose Trek"s or Garmins"s You have done a very thorough review and you even gave Trek every chance to work as advertised. And it's easy. Garmin is the way to go. Great Job. And an enormous amount of work / time. Thank you. It's what the customers need... the truth!!! Bravo!!!!!! And shame on Trek. A bad time to try and peddle (no pun) a sub quality unit.
I appreciate the fact that you went deep into the weeds on this one. Hopefully Trek takes this feedback to make this product better.
I would love to have been a fly on the wall during CarBack development meetings. How a company the size of Trek can bring to market a product with no changing light pattern, a substandard mount and a questionable range claim would make a fascinating case study.
Thanks for the review and the lengths you go to. I’m bike touring in Italy and I must say my Garmin radar has been very helpful, especially riding over the Cisa pass on a Sunday with so many reckless motorcyclists.
So glad you went through the effort on this. As someone who never leaves home without a radar, I was really hopeful for this to be a massive upgrade for radars. Unfortunately, it fails to deliver. So glad you do such detailed testing. Always love your videos.
Chapeau GPLama!! Best 37 mins of a product review.
3 units to verify. I’d say your testing was far superior than Trek’s.
Maybe they tested on Everest where the air is thinner or maybe on the ISS.
Wow, this is one of the best, most extensive reviews I have ever seen!
Thank you very much for your intense testing with all those scenarios and even showing them to us.
Really well done!
My Garmin Varia has been rock solid. Not sure I need all 240 meters. Plus the integration of my Varia with my Garmin headset has been flawless.
Yeah, 140m is enough time to linger in the lane for a few seconds so that drivers approach a bit more cautiously before I retreat to the side as they inevitably close pass. Because if they're gonna close pass, may as well push them over a little bit and have space to bail.
@@beaudjangles I haven’t had a ride yet where my Varia didn’t give me plenty of advance warning that I didn’t feel safe. It’s never missed a car and has had surprising accuracy detecting the exact number with multiple cars. Given Shane’s rigorous test review, I’m genuinely surprised that Trek released Car Back in an obviously half baked state. Given my experience with Garmin products in general, and unless something changes, I’ll be staying in the Garmin ecosystem.
@@PureNRG2 Yeah, I've not had a false negative either. Pretty incredible. The other day though it fritzed out for a couple of seconds and disconnected and reconnected a couple of times in quick succession. That's the first question mark in months of riding.
Thanks to your video to show another option with better spec and cheaper cost.
Glad to see a different product different from 24Ghz ...
Cheers, Lama! Super thorough and although not a Trek fan, I hope they figure it out to push the industry further. Love my RTL515. Also some of the passer-bys were a treat (Karen flipping you off, the Mad Max bucket, etc). Awesome job, mate.
Thank you for all your thorough testing. It's what I can always count on with your videos, but you've definitely out done yourself this time.
Thanks for all the work on this Shane! I always appreciate your rigor!
GPLama truly the Marques Brownlee for us Cyclist! Meant that as a compliment :)
That is indeed a compliment!
Listen! You are amazing! I'm just thinking about the amount of editing you've put into it! I salute you!
Perfect timing Shane - My trusted OG RTL510 gave up on me this weekend (lights ok, but radar not working with the Wahoo anymore) so in the market for a new radar - Looks like another Varia then. Thanks Shane for your steadfast and fair review. We salute you!
Wait a month or two maybe Garmin will release a new one with usb-c
Let the device go totally dead, then charge it to full. It may help.
Call Garmin customer service and let them know about your radar failure. Chances are, you'll get a free exchange. I did, and mine failed cause it dropped out of a cheap Amazon mount. They exchanged it anyways.
@@cypis66606/2024, 10 years since USB C has been introduced, still no sign of Varia upgrade... incredible
Interesting testing. I own 2 CarBacks and 2 Garmins for my 4 Trek bikes. For the unprotected city riding I do, the performance seems about the same. I use the Blendr saddle mount btacket on the 2 CarBacks, which is a great, but proprietary, solid mount and the main thing that swayed me to them. I do appreciate the narrower spread and the battery level display as well. Bottom line, though, is just get a radar... any radar to improve riding safety.
Amazing video, really great how much effort you put in this project. Thank you !
You'd think a big company like Trek would know better than to over promise and under deliver. Great review as always, Shane.
On a side note, aside from traffic being on the opposite side of the road, it's amazing how similar Australian suburbia is to Canadian suburbia.
I did like that it has a battery indicator on the side, but reliability of alert is king.
Doing the hard work for us. Always appreciate you confirming we are buying what they’re selling.
Thank you for those testing!
OMG, can't understood why the narrower beam. You have multiple lines, cars overtaking each others, tilting bikes, corners, terrible mount that let slip the radar... all those situation could be alleviate with a wider beam. It's true that if narrower should travel longer (at same energy) but detection & consistency are a must for this device. In a few cases in your testing cars aren't detected till 70 meters 🤦♂
The cheaper Magene that I'm using looks better than € 200 of unreliability
I admire your commitment and zealousness in pursue to put to the test various claims of bike gear manufacturers. it's unmatched. I salute you!
What a test! Great one. I love my TREK Bike, and i love my Bryton Gardia, but nothing replace a shoulder check.(Except some rockets). Thanks for the Vid!
The distance I get from my Varia is perfectly adequate. And it works 100% of the time. 240 m seems unnecessary. The change in light pattern is an essential feature IMHO.
I agree. Now if it only had USB-C and I would ask for nothing more, Varia is surprisingly close to "perfection" from my standpoint.
That's assuming you see or hear the car notification straight away. Longer would be better, especially for those of us that don't want to be glued to the display.
@lf1980 if the sound notification is loud enough, I'm OK with the Varia. The distance it can see is more than enough. On a Garmin head unit the notification is loud enough. However, I tried an Igs630. I couldn't hear the signal, a deal killer. I returned it. As you say, we definitely don't want eyes glued to the screen!
Kudos… That was alot of effort going into all that testing. Seems like something a large company should had done before they made claims and released a product.
I like to keep checking out products even if I will not likely get them since 98% indoors on ZWIFT and the other 2% is on bike trail with ZERO cars , and a 8 to 15 mile bike doing duathlon with roads closed . Here in Florida , to many cars with people on cell phones, quality of the roads are poor on back roads which rarely ever get repaved . So riding out doors in Florida in 1985 compared to 2024 . Not enjoyable .
Bike trail is protected state park . Same in 1996 1st ride to today . Thanks Shane still enjoy how detailed you are and u are worth my time .
Thank you for being thorough!
37 minutes, kudo to the grind. Editing this together would have taken 37 hours. Nice research Shane
Great review I’ve had Varia Radar since the technology was first purchased from South Africa by Garmin. I also wear a mirror and between the two safety features my rides are a lot more comfortable, safer and more enjoyable. With the radar I just take a full lane and get a smoother surface for those fantastic high speed downhills
Thank you for your service!
Thanks for the excellent review!
Fantastic work Professor Llama.
Watched the whole thing and I appreciate it so much! Bike safety is my main concern with being a father of 3 (4th on the way). I can take chances with me, but not with my childrens dad.
Good review. I have been looking at buying a radar and after seeing this I decided to go for a garmin. Thanks.
I appreciate your efforts very much
Shane, nice job on this and your previous videos. I’m much more interested in the potential for long battery life. A common gripe in my group is short battery life of our Garmin radar units. It performs particularly bad in cold temps (0 C or below), with a typical duration of less than 3 hours. It would be great if your future tests included a cold temperature regime, which is pretty typical for year round commuters in northern countries.
My Garmin RTL515 is just amazing. I feel so much safer and informed about what's happening behind me. I ride with ear buds, so I like turning head unit tones off, but using the Garmin app in the background on my phone so that I can still hear notifications. Just incredible
Well I got sucked in by the marketing. I bought it for 2 reasons, the increased detection range and the smaller (re. height) form factor. It's disappointing to see that the 240 meter detection range only exists in the minds of the marketing people. Other than that the unit has worked without issues.
What in the Mad Max am I looking at 15:36 into the review lol
hahahah! 'Straya! That's a ute with a bullbar... maybe a roo bar.
@@gplama Thanks, I was about to ask the same thing. Had to look up 'straya' and 'ute' but I still have questions. :)
Those whiskers sticking up are to try and deter the magpies from swooping and taking out your windows
@@galenkehlerstill won’t stop them from ripping the roof off your car
Top job , that’s a massive effort to pull this together!
Thanks Shane 👍👍
If the Garmin Varia had USB-C fast charging, it would be perfect.
I can only assume they're working on a refresh to the RTL515 this season. It'll be an easy win for them to update it with USB-C fast-charge and maybe.. just maaaaaaybe.. a little bigger battery.
@@gplama yes, battery life is pretty short!
Excellent detailed testing thanks GP Lama! Proper hats off to you for the time investment in this thorough testing. It gives really great insight into how these products compare. Thank you! Well done🎉
I'm still hoping that we will get more camera radar light units that record sound too.
Great bit of work great video
I use the changing light pattern on my Garmin 515, that is the bigger miss for me with the CarBack. This situation reminds me of the the obnoxious "Cycling's most important" WaveCel release about 5 years ago. The marketing team seems to be a little to narcissistic for my tastes. I'm a pretty big fan of Trek, and I have a lot of good things to say. At least the radar (and the helmet) appear to be good usable products. Too bad they feel the need to be bombastic about it. Thank you for the video.
The most amazing thing about this review? Ballarat in May with sunshine and blue skies! Lol
That drone testing idea is genius 👏
Approaching the midway point of 2024 and I can honestly say I am at my radar test/review limit! Glad it was with GP tho! Great content! I’ll stick with my 515! As others have said, the blinking light is the must have!
You still have to look back when on the road, especially when you have to change lanes to turn. I've been cycling for over 40 years, I find these really unnecessary, (although I have the garmin, lol), but really, the reaction time is not consistent or quick enough on certain roads. As usual Shane, Great product review and testing!
Loved the Ultimate Road Test section, great testing setup!
Guess I'll grab a Varia now based on your vid and this comment section 😂
Thanks for the testing and video, I'm actively looking for a replacement for just the radar. I've had too many failures for me on the Garmin RTL515 and I've already lost confidence in that unit + I didn't hear much better about their camera combo (+ I like my Fly6s) . I guess it's back to relying on my supersonic ears and spider senses.
Perfect timing Shane, I was considering this to replace my aging Varia. Now I'm not so sure.
nobody can beat the slick look of Garmin Varia
The RTL500 had a face only a mother could love though. 😉
Flare Rear light owner here...If it uses the same rubber mount as the light then the rubber perishes with 3 years of Australian (Melbourne) environment. This is worse than some of my Ali Express lights which are also mounted to my aero seatpost. I suspect to mount it "firmly and securely" means a higher stress on the rubber strap which makes it fail sooner.
Geez. This new Trek light is a BRICK! Also, the fact that you can't change the setting to blink is also Trash. The Bontrager Flare is better. You can see the flare flashing from a pretty good distance.
I love the thorough testing of the range as well as the thoughtfulness about side to side range and speed differential
Bravo! I'm a former software quality assurance nerd, so I appreciate actually quantifying the performance. I have the Varia and want to get one for my GF as she plans to start riding to work. Based on this, I'll get her a Varia, too.
Just would like to give The Mount the benefit of the doubt; Trek being Trek (all things proprietary), I think they designed the mount mainly to use with Trek’s aero / d-shaped seat post / seat mast / seat topper hence why I wasn’t all sunshine and rainbows on a non-Trek bike
Shane that was really helpful thank you :) Which Garmin head unit was that you were using ?
This was a very thorough video...but tbh I just watched the last few minutes...Varia for the win
As a data scientist and cyclist I love the detail of this video ! So so good
thumbs up for your scientific approach
On the plus side, perhaps this will motivate the competition to get better.
Great review and well constructed testing leaving no room for doubts. Also, are you able to review SENA intercoms either add-ons to helmets or integrated with the helmet?
I'm really not sure I need, or even want 240m range on my radar. That's too far back to start worrying about. The range of the Varia is fine/ideal.
It seems to me, having admittedly never used a bike radar myself, as if these radars are way too inaccuracy to be as useful as I thought they would be. And not just because of the range, or lack of range, but because those dots are not giving a very accurate picture of where the cars are relative to you. On several occasions I noticed the cars passing before the dot caught up with the radar, and a couple of times it was the other way around, which means all you really know is that cars are coming, and some rough estimation of when they will pass you. This being the case I feel you get a lot more value from a small mirror either on e.g. your helmet.
Most of the time the alert itself is all that’s needed. ‘Something is back’ is simple and easy to interpret. A lot of the additional information becomes overload.
Great testing! However TREK actually say UP TO 240m... which I think you proved it is capable of in certain circumstances. I personally wouldn't buy this without looking at the key wording of the marketing blurb.
I've been using radar since the first gen Garmin. I also ALWAYS have supplemented with a bar end RVM.
A good old nerd deep dive. I’m all in for it!
Great review Shane. Personally I think a gamechanger radar would be one that can detect vehicle mass - i.e. motorbike, car, truck/bus and show accordingly.
Excellent review!
I was thinking about buying one unit but after seeing your work I had a lot of doubts and I won't do it.
It's a shame because I've always had a lot of trust in the TREK brand.
I’ll do a follow up if anything changes in the future. I hope they can assess this testing (and do their own) and release some refinements/improvements.
Thanks for the video and work done to compare. Quick questions; which Garmin do you have as an overlay on the screen? What software are you using to overlay the multiple footage? Thanks!
It depends on the size and speed of the object, but generally speaking RTL 515 varia is the best
Wow that was a lot to stomach through.
I don't care about its higher range or the side-to-side range capabilities. It still performs on par with existing radars so that is where I give it a check.
Where it fails is in what it has besides a radar. A provided mount should work with your own developed bike out of the box period. That is not the case here. And there are plenty of aftermarket quarter-turn mounts as well whereas this new system is proprietary to Trek. The light on it is horrible, doesn't even have a flood light allowing it to be viewed at an angle.
I hope the second iteration of the carback fixes some of these issues or sets the expectations better. I would love a blendr compatible radar.
I love these independent reviews... busting marketing hype!
Good to see Trek at least doing a conference call with you and identifying some bugs.
Yep. It was good they responded. I wasn't on any of the pre-seed media lists though. Given the amount of radar content I've done over the years, it would have been nice to at least know this was coming. The standard media made a total mess of the reviews too.
excellent video as usual
Thanks! There were a few things I could have put more polish on... but it was a 35GB video in the end and I needed to get this out there and put some space between me and this product. Preferably more than 240m. :)
Now that’s what I call a review. Great work. And I’m laughing with you at that driver salute - don’t you just love humans?
I have been using the magene radar for about 2yrs and it has been good
Why would I spend twice the amount of money
I live in a city so 240m of range is a waste as there is a consistent flow of traffic and when I'm on the road in the early morning the magene picks up the car before I can hear it, bravo
I was actually thinking lane detection would be great at the start of this vid..and then you said it had it. Sure maybe Gen 1 lane detection...but this would be AMAZING too. knowing if a car on a dual lane hwy is driving in the closest or furthest is really handy in understanding driver attitude.
or having different style dots for those that are giving space and those that aren't. Circle for space, cross for close passing? Something other than colour given colour doesn't always show well in daylight.
Follow up...being able to select what range is safe or not would be great too given different countries have different laws and different people have different comfort zones.
Follow follow up...having the comfort zone/space automatically increase based on car speed would also be great. Given going 40kmh doesn't need/warrant as much space as a car going 80-100kmh.
Hopefully in time they can finesse this.
Un lujo de análisis
excellent video......!
Thanks for the great review. As someone who has just got back into road cycling and is looking at getting a radar, this review provided some great information for me to go over.
I'm not sure how 240M really matters. As long as I have 5-10 seconds of notice it's sufficient for situational awareness. Knowing 30 seconds ahead isn't going to change what I do.
Companies need to realise we don’t need MORE range, but a competitor to Garmin’s radar/light/camera product.
Trek could have scored a slam dunk with an alternative that had better video quality. But no, they decided to just release ANOTHER product in an already saturated market. Pity
Dang! Trek needs to head back to the drawing board. Thanks for the extensive testing. I'm sticking with the Varia.
I can see what they were trying to do with it. Provide a longer range, less radar beam width for more 'accuracy'... but out on the road the results weren't as expected.
impressive in-depth test! Thank you this will help me a great deal in jmaking a solid decision, as I am planning to buy such a device. Unluckily I may not use a flashlight in Germany, when it is attached to the bike. I may use it, when it would be attached to my clothing or backpack. Isn't this crazy?
As others have said...had to do a double-take on the length! This is gonna be good.
Use the chapters to jump ahead. There’s a lot to cover.
Maybe tested where the cars are all giant SUVs and such, heh. Definitely one to go back to the drawing board, that narrower beam looks like a big issue too...
"no it did not pick up that magpie either"
ha! I would pay for a swoopy boi detector!
My Garmin RTL515 works just fine.
Will be sticking with the Garmin. Wondering if marketing department also did the testing.
I found similar reading but with one scenario that was even more concerning. In our group ride on a clear day if I was off the front the radar ap read the ten guys behind me as a vehicle and chirped its warning. Also after two hours the ap froze up and even rebooting the ap and the unit did not unfreeze it until I rode the next day ( the unit still had fifty percent battery life when it froze )