ive never used subtrim to center my tail i slide the tail rudder servo until the heli holds in rate mode. good job i enjoy your setups keep doing what you do. liked your video to.
thx for all your help iv now flown and seems a lot better now i'm still playing with gain to get best result but holding now (well was till tail servo quit...) my mates is now spot on but his receiver packed up on same day!! at least i wasn't 30 foot up like he was when it went safe landing though!!
Hi Ivan I was about to throw away my Gyro because it did not hold at all during pitch punches, I followed your tutorial last night after work and it worked!
@IvanBarb4 only thing so far i found in the manual. Do not operate the rudder trimmer while flying in the AVCS mode. When the power is turned on, the GY401 assumes that the rudder stick is in the neutral position. If the rudder trimmer is moved during flight, the neutral position will change.
SUCCESS!! Been flying the wrong way for a long time now. Not easy doing this stuff on your own. Thanx Mate.! (From Australia) :) Gyro AVCS mode all sorted.!
Seeing your vids I order 2 gy401b servo's with clone servo's plus a goteck 9257 clone servo, that should be efficient I hope. There is a tiny bit of slop, i changed the pitch slider for an align one. Still has a little bit of slop. But I guess the servo is the biggest problem, considering when I put center rudder it doens't really center that great until I give the stick a little tap. We'll see how it develops :D
Lift off the heli and hover and adjust the rudder neutral position with the tx trim lever that makes since ivan thanks ill have to read the manual that way is much safer to
@IvanBarb4 tho you didnt do this i cant find where in the manual to use sub trim but what ever works to each his own and thanks for the lesson you rock mate
Hi and tx for the reply...The direction is right...I have training gear on and I have a terribel tail wagging...I have around 62.5 gyro and it seems a bit better but still not good. In rate mode, the heli spins CCW. If I add rudder subtrim to stop spinning, then after switching back to HH it spins CW...pfffff :(((((
should i reverse the gyro switch? or in the reverse menu I reverse the gyro or the rudder, like any other servo reversing? then I should go in the subtrim menu and play with it, like centering the swashplate servos ? Thanks for the info Florin
Hey Ivan, So i followed this guide to set up my gyro and tailservo, but I keep having a drift. When I have 39 subtrim it will drift to the right and 40 subtrim will give me a strong drift to the left, i can't get this drift out of my heli. Although i think it's my servo, when i put in right rudder the blades won't center perfectly, I always have to touch the stick a little bit more, faulty servo maybe? Combining with the new hk401b, disaster combo?
Hi, very interesting, but i don't understand what you show at point 2:09 trim offset. I have slider at center in rato mode but when i place to HH this slider goes completely to one side. Thanks in advance.
hi ivan when you say watch for servo creep have you switched to HH ?? as in rate mode it just stay at full or where ever stick is! theres 2 of us trying to setup hk 500 gt's with hk 401b gyros on iv tried a couple of ways and can only fly in rate as the creep in HH is to much we are both new to this and still trying to get our heads round a few bits dosn't help me having an old jr388s and him a dx6i cant compare things that way
even tough the rudder is centerred when in rate and I increase rpm on training gear the heli spins counterclockwise...I have a 450 heli like storm one, and devo 10 tx+hk401b gyro..Anyway in HH i get tai wag...should I just play with subtrims in the ruddr channel? Did I understand correctly/ Thanks a lot Florin
aparently i didnt even have to adjust the tail gyro. i actually got the thing to fly . Now all i have to do is adjust the carb.I am not sure how to go about setting the needle valve corectly.
many thx got that done seems ok but not able to test fly as yet with weather here one other question ! when i move rudder stick over i have full travel on tail with only half movement on stick! is this where i adjust (travel adjust) so that full stick matches full through or is this wrong??
What’s the difference between AVCS and normal? I want to setup my heli with a new Futaba radio. Don’t know how to program to be in „6g stabilized“ and „3D acrobatic“ mode.
Friend I have a doubt about a heli I'm trying to adjust his pace so as not to be negative, because I will not do 3d flight, then the heli is a former baron kalt space, radio is a Turnigy 9x, I would like to put zero to pass through but the engine and then turn to step up for him hoverar, is it possible?
It is a E-SKY EK0704B Head lock digital gyro. I am not sure what i did to my settings in my DX6I but it erased all my settings for this heli and i am not sure how to set it back up. I had a guy at a hobby shop to set it up for me. it is a exi 450 pro. any ideas how to set the radio back up. Thank you for any help.
hello ivan, I followed your advice, the tail swings, I corrected with sub-trims. but reaches the limit then turns from, the other party What should I check thanks for your advice
Serach for "Delay setup for a 401 type gyro" here's what I found... What is delay for? It is used to coordinate a gyro's output with a servo. Sometimes when a servo is slow there is a time delay between what the gyro wants to happen and what the servo ends up doing. This results in poor piro stop quality....which means a mushy stop or a bounce back. When delay is set up well the piro stop is crisp and prompt with no bounce back. Before getting into gain and delay please note that for tail performance you need to make sure that the headspeed is sufficient for the heli. This gives the tail enough power to perform its job. Also make sure that there is sufficient pitch at the tail. About 45 degrees CW and 35 degrees CCW is sufficient. Take care of slop and binding as well....the tail should move very smoothly and easily. How I set up delay: 1) Go through the mechanical setup of the gyro and servo as per instructions. 2) If instructions call for a rate mode setup do this first. 3) Now you should be ready to adjust gain and delay. 4) Increase the delay to Maximum. This allows us to deal with just the gain part of things first. The tail will feel mushy if you try to fly around like this. That is ok for now as we are doing gain first. 5) Now hover the heli and increase the gain until you see wag. Then back it down a few points. I like to do some mild climbs to see how much the tail 'gives'. The tail should hold its vertical line and not move out noticeably. You should also not experience any wag....lower the gain if you do. 6) Now perform left and right piros and see how it stops. Decrease the amount of delay step by step and take note of how the tail stops in a piro in both directions. What you should notice is that as the delay is decreased the piro stops will become more and more crisp. Then as delay is further decreased you will see more and more bounce. This is where you want to back off the delay.... do not overshoot the delay or then you will see bounce. This should get you a nicely holding tail and great quality of piro stops.
@@ivanb386 Thank you. If the "DELAY" value is large, then the tail will always bounce in the counterclockwise direction or in the opposite direction to the tail movement?
Hi...it's been a long time since I played around with this stuff, I can't remember very much about the Delay...based on the video it looks like I left it at its default value. The delay has something to do with how the servo responds to input and whether its a digital or analog servo. Here is what I found (you can do a google search for "Rc Heli Gyro Delay") Consider the case where the heli is turning. The pilot has requested a change in heading and the gyro has sent a command to the gyro proportional to the difference between the current heading and the desired heading. The tail is basically playing catch up with the desired heading. Now the pilot centers the stick. The desired heading stops changing, so the tail now swings round to that final heading, the deflection of the tail servo reducing (in proportion to the gain) as the tail position approaches the desired heading. If the tail servo were to respond instantly and there was no momentum involved the tail would stop as soon as the desired heading was reached. In reality the servo takes a few milliseconds to react so, particularly when a higher gain is used, the servo doesn't back off the command to turn fast enough, so the tail will overshoot causing the characteristic bounce. The solution to this is for the gyro to compensate by telling the servo to back off the movement of the tail early. This gives the tail time to respond without overshoot. The bigger the programmed delay the earlier the gyro acts. Too big a delay and the piro stop becomes soft, too little and the bounce won't be cured.
just wondering if a futaba gy401 would be compatable with a spectrum 6ch heli reciever and dx6 radio I just picked up a used .30 raptor and it has a futaba gy401 thanks an nice vid
Hi Joseph, I have that setup and it works fine....The gyro plugs into the receiver (and tail servo), as long as its a receiver thats compatible with the Dx6 you should be fine.
i thought you werent supposed to use the subtrim during setup???. this method seems all familiar except i dont remember using that subtrim the first time i was shown(several years ago) .. isnt there another way to adjust for drift during the hovering stage, like moving the servo or something? i also dont remember doing the part about using subtrim until the CREEP stops??? is this necessary?
Using subtrim gives the gyro an electronic main blade offset, which then allows for full deflection both ways on the tail pitch slider...If you offset it mechanically by moving the servo, the pitch slider is limited in its travel (full deflection to one side and half the the other) as demonstrated in the video. You dont have to adjust it via the creep, thats just a reference, you can increase the subtrim until the tail blade are about 5-8° offset and do a few hovers and adjust from there....Hope that helps.
The heli needs to offset the torque of the main blades...As the main blades spin clockwise (from the top view) the tail wants to spin anti clockwise...so we offset the tail blades to counter the torque of the main blades...in effect giving a constant right rudder input...You MUST counter the main blades otherwise the heli will spin continuously.
Top of 33 Multimedia yeah, right, should have realized that. but im confused on the parts between 2:07 - 2:16. is he telling you to move the servo again at "subtrim offset"? even when he told us to center everything first
Before you can adjust the heli (program it) you need to have the heli built and setup correctly...you need a starting point from which to work from...Set it all up and make sure everything is moving as its supposed to, then you can set the tail offset...you do this by setting the subtrim. The pitch slider needs to be centered in order to have equal travel and for the servo to work correctly...then you offset it electronically..its an adjustment that works under your normal controls (behind the scenes).
Thanks for your kind words 😂...based on the comments in this video, I think it's helped a few people...This is not a beginners (or someone new to RC helis) tutorial, this was made to show how to setup a 401 type (clone) gyro that was available 12 years ago.
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ive never used subtrim to center my tail i slide the tail rudder servo until the heli holds in rate mode.
good job i enjoy your setups keep doing what you do.
liked your video to.
Really top-notch tutorial! You do a great job on these and I've learned a ton watching your vids! Thank you!
Thanks! your welcome!
thx for all your help iv now flown and seems a lot better now
i'm still playing with gain to get best result but holding now (well was till tail servo quit...)
my mates is now spot on but his receiver packed up on same day!!
at least i wasn't 30 foot up like he was when it went
safe landing though!!
Hi Ivan
I was about to throw away my Gyro because it did not hold at all during pitch punches, I followed your tutorial last night after work and it worked!
@IvanBarb4
only thing so far i found in the manual.
Do not operate the rudder trimmer while
flying in the AVCS mode.
When the power is turned on, the GY401 assumes that
the rudder stick is in the neutral position. If the rudder
trimmer is moved during flight, the neutral position will
change.
BEST Video There is!!!
SUCCESS!! Been flying the wrong way for a long time now. Not easy doing this stuff on your own. Thanx Mate.! (From Australia) :) Gyro AVCS mode all sorted.!
nicely done ivan
Thank you ❤❤❤
Your welcome!
Seeing your vids I order 2 gy401b servo's with clone servo's plus a goteck 9257 clone servo, that should be efficient I hope.
There is a tiny bit of slop, i changed the pitch slider for an align one. Still has a little bit of slop. But I guess the servo is the biggest problem, considering when I put center rudder it doens't really center that great until I give the stick a little tap. We'll see how it develops :D
hi ivan servo creeping check on rate mode or hh node thanks for great video chears.
Lift off the heli and hover and adjust the rudder neutral position with the tx trim lever
that makes since ivan thanks ill have to read the manual that way is much safer to
@IvanBarb4
tho you didnt do this i cant find where in the manual to use sub trim but what ever works to each his own and thanks for the lesson you rock mate
Great video is the gyro and servo still working ok
That was a grate video,the nose of my heli is drifting to the right cant seem to trim it out.
how could i fix this?
Thanks for the video.
Hi and tx for the reply...The direction is right...I have training gear on and I have a terribel tail wagging...I have around 62.5 gyro and it seems a bit better but still not good. In rate mode, the heli spins CCW. If I add rudder subtrim to stop spinning, then after switching back to HH it spins CW...pfffff :(((((
HI great Tutorial, now want to do the same in opentx, do you know how? or where to go?
I couldn't find your letter, if I try to follow the link and reply, TH-cam shows a "400" error, your letter is in the email, but not on TH-cam.
should i reverse the gyro switch? or in the reverse menu I reverse the gyro or the rudder, like any other servo reversing? then I should go in the subtrim menu and play with it, like centering the swashplate servos ?
Thanks for the info
Florin
Hey Ivan,
So i followed this guide to set up my gyro and tailservo, but I keep having a drift. When I have 39 subtrim it will drift to the right and 40 subtrim will give me a strong drift to the left, i can't get this drift out of my heli. Although i think it's my servo, when i put in right rudder the blades won't center perfectly, I always have to touch the stick a little bit more, faulty servo maybe?
Combining with the new hk401b, disaster combo?
Hi, very interesting, but i don't understand what you show at point 2:09 trim offset. I have slider at center in rato mode but when i place to HH this slider goes completely to one side. Thanks in advance.
its strange the model name is still there but all the heli settings are gone.
hi ivan
when you say watch for servo creep have you switched to HH ?? as in rate mode it just stay at full or where ever stick is!
theres 2 of us trying to setup hk 500 gt's with hk 401b gyros on
iv tried a couple of ways and can only fly in rate as the creep in HH is to much
we are both new to this and still trying to get our heads round a few bits
dosn't help me having an old jr388s and him a dx6i
cant compare things that way
even tough the rudder is centerred when in rate and I increase rpm on training gear the heli spins counterclockwise...I have a 450 heli like storm one, and devo 10 tx+hk401b gyro..Anyway in HH i get tai wag...should I just play with subtrims in the ruddr channel? Did I understand correctly/ Thanks a lot
Florin
been playing with my lazy Susan to setup tails lately
aparently i didnt even have to adjust the tail gyro. i actually got the thing to fly . Now all i have to do is adjust the carb.I am not sure how to go about setting the needle valve corectly.
many thx got that done seems ok but not able to test fly as yet with weather here
one other question ! when i move rudder stick over i have full travel on tail with only half movement on stick! is this where i adjust (travel adjust) so that full stick matches full through or is this wrong??
What’s the difference between AVCS and normal? I want to setup my heli with a new Futaba radio. Don’t know how to program to be in „6g stabilized“ and „3D acrobatic“ mode.
Friend I have a doubt about a heli I'm trying to adjust his pace so as not to be negative, because I will not do 3d flight, then the heli is a former baron kalt space, radio is a Turnigy 9x, I would like to put zero to pass through but the engine and then turn to step up for him hoverar, is it possible?
It is a E-SKY EK0704B Head lock digital gyro.
I am not sure what i did to my settings in my DX6I but it erased all my settings for this heli and i am not sure how to set it back up.
I had a guy at a hobby shop to set it up for me. it is a exi 450 pro.
any ideas how to set the radio back up.
Thank you for any help.
hello ivan, I followed your advice, the tail swings, I corrected with sub-trims. but reaches the limit then turns from, the other party
What should I check thanks for your advice
Hello. I didn't find on TH-cam how to set up "DELAY".
Serach for "Delay setup for a 401 type gyro" here's what I found...
What is delay for? It is used to coordinate a gyro's output with a servo. Sometimes when a servo is slow there is a time delay between what the gyro wants to happen and what the servo ends up doing. This results in poor piro stop quality....which means a mushy stop or a bounce back.
When delay is set up well the piro stop is crisp and prompt with no bounce back.
Before getting into gain and delay please note that for tail performance you need to make sure that the headspeed is sufficient for the heli. This gives the tail enough power to perform its job. Also make sure that there is sufficient pitch at the tail. About 45 degrees CW and 35 degrees CCW is sufficient. Take care of slop and binding as well....the tail should move very smoothly and easily.
How I set up delay:
1) Go through the mechanical setup of the gyro and servo as per instructions.
2) If instructions call for a rate mode setup do this first.
3) Now you should be ready to adjust gain and delay.
4) Increase the delay to Maximum. This allows us to deal with just the gain part of things first. The tail will feel mushy if you try to fly around like this. That is ok for now as we are doing gain first.
5) Now hover the heli and increase the gain until you see wag. Then back it down a few points. I like to do some mild climbs to see how much the tail 'gives'. The tail should hold its vertical line and not move out noticeably. You should also not experience any wag....lower the gain if you do.
6) Now perform left and right piros and see how it stops. Decrease the amount of delay step by step and take note of how the tail stops in a piro in both directions. What you should notice is that as the delay is decreased the piro stops will become more and more crisp. Then as delay is further decreased you will see more and more bounce. This is where you want to back off the delay.... do not overshoot the delay or then you will see bounce.
This should get you a nicely holding tail and great quality of piro stops.
@@ivanb386 Thank you. If the "DELAY" value is large, then the tail will always bounce in the counterclockwise direction or in the opposite direction to the tail movement?
Hello, tell me, is the “DELAY” parameter not configurable?
Hi...it's been a long time since I played around with this stuff, I can't remember very much about the Delay...based on the video it looks like I left it at its default value.
The delay has something to do with how the servo responds to input and whether its a digital or analog servo.
Here is what I found (you can do a google search for "Rc Heli Gyro Delay")
Consider the case where the heli is turning. The pilot has requested a change in heading and the gyro has sent a command to the gyro proportional to the difference between the current heading and the desired heading. The tail is basically playing catch up with the desired heading. Now the pilot centers the stick. The desired heading stops changing, so the tail now swings round to that final heading, the deflection of the tail servo reducing (in proportion to the gain) as the tail position approaches the desired heading. If the tail servo were to respond instantly and there was no momentum involved the tail would stop as soon as the desired heading was reached. In reality the servo takes a few milliseconds to react so, particularly when a higher gain is used, the servo doesn't back off the command to turn fast enough, so the tail will overshoot causing the characteristic bounce. The solution to this is for the gyro to compensate by telling the servo to back off the movement of the tail early. This gives the tail time to respond without overshoot. The bigger the programmed delay the earlier the gyro acts. Too big a delay and the piro stop becomes soft, too little and the bounce won't be cured.
just wondering if a futaba gy401 would be compatable with a spectrum 6ch heli reciever and dx6 radio I just picked up a used .30 raptor and it has a futaba gy401 thanks an nice vid
Hi Joseph, I have that setup and it works fine....The gyro plugs into the receiver (and tail servo), as long as its a receiver thats compatible with the Dx6 you should be fine.
Tanks if all goes well omorow is maiden flight day batteris are charging for the glow plug thingy 12hrs and the 4.8v pack for the heli
Good luck Joseph hope it goes well! :)
i thought you werent supposed to use the subtrim during setup???. this method seems all familiar except i dont remember using that subtrim the first time i was shown(several years ago) .. isnt there another way to adjust for drift during the hovering stage, like moving the servo or something? i also dont remember doing the part about using subtrim until the CREEP stops??? is this necessary?
Using subtrim gives the gyro an electronic main blade offset, which then allows for full deflection both ways on the tail pitch slider...If you offset it mechanically by moving the servo, the pitch slider is limited in its travel (full deflection to one side and half the the other) as demonstrated in the video.
You dont have to adjust it via the creep, thats just a reference, you can increase the subtrim until the tail blade are about 5-8° offset and do a few hovers and adjust from there....Hope that helps.
Top of 33 Multimedia whats the purpose of increasing subtrim until tail blades are 5-8 offest?
The heli needs to offset the torque of the main blades...As the main blades spin clockwise (from the top view) the tail wants to spin anti clockwise...so we offset the tail blades to counter the torque of the main blades...in effect giving a constant right rudder input...You MUST counter the main blades otherwise the heli will spin continuously.
Top of 33 Multimedia yeah, right, should have realized that. but im confused on the parts between 2:07 - 2:16. is he telling you to move the servo again at "subtrim offset"? even when he told us to center everything first
Before you can adjust the heli (program it) you need to have the heli built and setup correctly...you need a starting point from which to work from...Set it all up and make sure everything is moving as its supposed to, then you can set the tail offset...you do this by setting the subtrim.
The pitch slider needs to be centered in order to have equal travel and for the servo to work correctly...then you offset it electronically..its an adjustment that works under your normal controls (behind the scenes).
Not very close i am in USA, Texas
This is really a useless video😂 This will help nobody new to set it up
Thanks for your kind words 😂...based on the comments in this video, I think it's helped a few people...This is not a beginners (or someone new to RC helis) tutorial, this was made to show how to setup a 401 type (clone) gyro that was available 12 years ago.
I couldn't find your letter, if I try to follow the link and reply, TH-cam shows a "400" error, your letter is in the email, but not on TH-cam.