TSN in a nutshell: Week 1: are the leafs gonna win the Stanley cup? Week 2: what's wrong with the leafs? Week 3: are the leafs gonna win the Stanley cup? Week 4: what's wrong with the leafs?
Marner is one of the best players in the NHL; trading him would make the Leafs even worse, The real problem is management that is incompetent. FIRE DUBAS, FIRE KEEFE, FIRE SHANAHAN.
@T Rap excuse me? people can’t afford to watch a game in Quebec? the bell center, where the canadiens plays, is sold out every game. On top of that, montreal canadien is one of the team that makes the most money in the league and you tell me people cant affort to watch a game in QC??
Will that solve all their problems? Objectively I don’t know. Marner is not a particularly threatening shooter, hence the no goals. But why did he not have many assists? Is it just because Matthews was shut down? Should they separate Mariner and Matthews? Would they have more success that way? All questions I feel like they have to ask themselves in the off season. Marner needs to hold himself accountable for a lack of play off production. I’m not saying he’s solely responsible for the loss. That’s a lot to put on someone who I’m sure is already beating himself up internally. But you gotta ask yourself if you’re Marner, is that the best you got?
I don't believe that's the extent of it. He doesn't seem mentally strong to win when the pressures high. Look at his body language in game 7 dude looks defeated before the game was even over and still within reach. True stars elevate their game when it matters the most. Sure he's paid like a star but gets rattled far too easily. Which also explains all the over the glass penalties. No sympathy from me though when you selfishly squeeze your hometown team for every penny.
It’s simple. Don’t pay guys cup type money without earning it first. These guys love the money more than winning. You’re just hungrier when you got to earn it. Dubas made good moves but still on him for signing these guys at the money he did. That’s straight up facts
No playoff performance absolutely is a huge part of how much you make. How many second rounds have Matthews and Marner seen to be worth that much? They are eating up their cap space too much. Shed 2 million off of the top 3 guys and that is 6 million dollars you can use to upgrade something they need. Like a defenseman
The man behind the Odd Man Rush TH-cam Channel awhile ago posted videos on 1-time Oilers’ forward Nail Yakupov, drafted #1 overall by that team. Although he enjoyed initial success in the NHL, he ultimately turned out to be a dud in that league. After the Colorado Avalanche decided not to renew his contract, he decided to join KHL club SKA St. Petersburg after practically no NHL team was prepared to sign him. That was although the league with which he signed happened to be in his homeland as prominent as that league is among pro-ice hockey leagues around the world. Yakupov, during his long KHL stint, bounced around a bunch of teams before finally finding a home with one for well under US$1 million per year. Too many Leaf players feel as entitled as him, and I hope that will change, and that the coaching staff will remind each and everyone of those players that what happened to Yakupov could happen to any 1 of them. Although Dubas & Shanahan need to go as executives of the Leafs, their jobs should not be the only ones to go during the current off-season.
@@wainber1 you forgot about one thing, Russia have flat fees system which mean, from 1mln you would keep around 850K, same time in Canada if you earn 2mln you only have about 1mln, huge difference. I better said let's talk how Tavares earn 1.5 Mil more then Kucherov or Point, 1.5Mil more than Ovechkin, list goes on, and Tavares play for the Home team, where is discount? Why leafs culture like that, this is his fucking hometown or place where he dreamt to play all his life, why he have more money than players i mentioned above, And i'm not even mentioned that Kucherov when he was number one in the team for points gave huge bridge discount for team and play for 5.5Mil just because TBL can't save other huge players whitout this discount! Brayden Point play for 6.5Mil i think untill 2022, why sign this greed players mind blowing. This is all and completely everything fault of greed and absolute stupidity of leafs. btw eng my second language so...
Its not cursed. Its that the top guys don't know how to play Playoff hockey and don't know how to adjust when the opponent adjusts its game plan to counter yours. That's on the Coaching Staff, they've failed this group. One good example is the fact Marner should have been separated from Matthews in Game 5, 6 & 7. Just to try and spark something. Take pressure off Marner and put him on line 2 and placing Nylander on Line 1. Anyhow they should also have a full time Doctor in the house during the Playoffs to help with mental issues from this team.
@@jesselayes3405 They altered the game play ever so slightly. The 4 + 1 clogging up the Neutral Zone, then dumping the puck in and crashing the net as you said.
@@nickt6595 All good points. As LeBrun implied, it really boils down to Dubas' inability to sign players to single digit contracts. I bet Dubas pays MSRP (if not over the sticker price) when buying a new car.
@@Listman11 Oh David, you must have missed the news... our GM is a proven winner, and he has the benefit of not needing a spill proof cup when he drinks!
I was the one Islanders fan who was happy Tavares left. I said, before he left, that he wasn't worth what they would have pay him. People said I was crazy. I honestly wouldn't have wanted him at half the price if he were to remain the first line center and the team captain. Move him to the wing, make him an alternate captain, tell him he had to learn to be less selfish with the puck... OK, I'd cope with that, but he would have never agreed to it. Tavares left, because Lamorello would never have let him run the team like Snow did. I just can't thank the Leafs enough for luring him away.
That was Tavares's price tag. $11M take it or leave it. The mistake Dubas made was Signing Tavares before Signing Matthews & Marner. Had Dubas Signed Matthews and Marner to a deal B4 Tavares, both of those players would have gotten under $10M each. Matthews probably $9.5M to $10M at 5 years and Marner $8M at 6 years. But by signing Tavares 1st at his price of $11M take it or leave it, that opened up the pricing for the other 2 stars. So in that respect, Dubas made a HUGE MISTAKE on those 3 signings.
@@SarahMaywalt Leafs acquired Tavares for his Playoff experience and ability to drive a top line and score. Tavares is a great player. It was a smart Leafs acquisition. Though I still think he was about $2M too much.
@@nickt6595 Caving to Nylander was also a huge mistake. They had the top scoring team in the league at that time and should have let him sit out the year.
it was also shanahans fault for hiring an inexperienced gm to sign the core guys. they took advantage of that and got as much as they wanted. tavares never asked for anything. there was a bidding war and the price went up way to high. marner asked for matthews money.
is anyone gonna talk about how that so called “depth” performed or are we just focusing on Marner. nothing you can do can change the real issue. heart. desire to win. that game 7 was just simply not caring. pathetic display. brutal.
Marner most definitely needs to be traded; he showed his true colors during the RFA negotiations, and his lack of heart and production clearly shows that he has to go. Even Matthews may need to be traded 1-for-1 for another star talent; it worked for the Toronto Raptors, after all. The depth is somewhat the issue, but certainly not in comparison to teams like the Oilers.
@@lukaz3336 Exaclty you bring stars onto a team to win you games and our stars couldn’t win us 1 game the whole series. It’s sad when our all 3 of our defensive pairings either had more goals or had the same amount out of goals as our first line through 7 games
@@TheEDFLegacy yup, the guy clearly doesn't care about being here, he turned down 11 million x 8 years(which is a massive overpayment) to take 10.9 million over 5 years. Send him to Columbus for best package available and let him do as many commericals as he wants in Columbus. If you can't find cheaper wingers to play with Matthews and Tavares then they aren't good enough to win. You don't need wingers making over 10 million to play with centres making over 10 million especially in a cap that is not going up. What a disaster
Marner is a bum you dorks. 0 goals in his past 18 playoff games, avoids physical contact at all costs, routinely fails to rise to the occasion every year. This combined that he held out for as much money as he could get and now the Leafs have to constantly tip-toe around his cap hit forever. The franchise should definitely look at trading him.
You do trade stars when that guy makes WAY more than he's worth and accomplished in the league. And when you have two more of those kind of guys on the team you get rid of him if you want a fuckin prayer. Pick any one of those $11 million dollar players and get rid of them. Its crystal clear that this team cannot win with this foundation.
@@StarFinderWebb you wouldn't because you didnt get to watch Marner is OHL years he was magical. He has that hockey sense that on star players have, Matthews doesn't have that. I'm not an OVI fan he is a true scorer who can make the plays for himself. Matthews will drop of because on trick ponies don't last long.
“Matthews, Marner, and Tavares are worth every penny” also, “you can’t win with a top heavy team” also, “they didn’t pull their weight” sooooo are they actually worth every penny?
After listening to these pundits on all the networks, how come there’s no heat at Sheldon Keefe? He made zero adjustments this series except benching Sandin after game 5. His bottom six except Spezza did nothing the whole series. Mikheyev, Thornton, Simmonds should’ve been benched. Where was Nick Robertson? Can’t say he’d be worse than what those 3 did the whole series.
@@crownhorse48 no I get that, but that’s what the other guy said. It’s a personnel problem. You don’t have the proper bottom 6 players. You guys have like 12 skilled forwards. That’s not gonna work in the playoffs
@@joshbribiesca2803 Toews was up there with him, Kane may have gotten a few more points but Toews was doing so much more overall. Two of the best players I’ve ever seen, so clutch.
@@vt1340 true but at least they got 3 cups out of it. Plus there were plenty of other reasons for the decline in play. hossa retired, Seabrooks physicality caught up with him, trading Panarin, Sharp leaving. After winning 3 cups and the hardware those two guys collected I think they deserved a payday and it would have been much worse to let them walk for nothing
I wouldn’t try to trade Marner, the guy is still just 24 but at the same time I think you have to at least listen and consider a trade if a reasonable one becomes available. (Etc Eichel or move him for Seth Jones). Losing 5 straight series in the Matthews/Marner era at this point in time is unacceptable
Seth Jones for marner could possibly be one of the worst possible trades we could make for him. I think if anything we should ourselves go for someone like Tkachuk with an added bonus of someone like hanafin. Seth Jones isn’t nearly as good as marner
@@jonathangordon448 it obviously wouldn’t be a straight up trade for Jones. Jones is a UFA and you’d make room for another piece to go with him by moving Marner. Highly unlikely that even happens tho
"As long as the Toronto media doesn't wanna make a major moves to the roster then Dubas will never take a risk.. and the leafs will be in this exact spot" I remember saying this last year and it's even more true this year
Guys like Toews and Crosby are “real” franchise players. Generational players mean nothing. Those two are just like Messier. Proven winners at everything they do. Excellent leaders on and off the ice, and more importantly, they got the job done and then some!
@@Beezie23 Crosby's first contract took up 17.30% of the Pens cap space (8.7mill AAV x 5 years) when he signed his post ELC contract (had not won the cup yet), McDavid's took 16.67% of the Oiler's cap space (12.5mill x 8 years) when he signed his post ELC contract. He didn't take a cheaper cut because he wanted to help the team out, his cut was already big enough.
They’re 23. They have time. Teows and kane got lucky by winning so young because they got out into a team that was already stacked when they were on their entry levels.
@@Beezie23 | EXACTLY!!! THAT'S WHAT ALL OF THES GM'S FAIL TO REALIZE...and in most cases, not only did they pay for an unproven guy, they set the market with their contract!! 🤭 wtf hese contracts in most cases have
Blame the entire team, top to bottom. Toronto media always wants to point a finger at someone. Watch Marner leave and win a cup somewhere else. Y'all ran away with the division and than lost a 3-1 lead. Absolutely pathetic.
@@ProdbyGash uh, I think your forgetting that Matthews scored like 40+ in his rookie year with only playing with nylander, and he did that for a couple more years, and imagine what they can do with that 11 million off the books
Everyone told them it'll be next to impossible to win with 3 or 4 forwards making close to 40 mill. It makes the rest of your F lineup thin. They have Rielly on a steal luckily or else they'd be even more screwed on D.
The Sabres wouldn’t. They have a star centre in Eichel and that’s about it for Elite offence. If they give Eichel up for Marner they now have a complimentary winger who specializes in setting up a star centre that the Sabres wouldn’t have
Personally, I would trade him. I think if they could send him to Columbus for Seth Jones and another depth piece then they would be much better off. I haven’t heard their D talked about enough but it needs to be more balanced like the forwards do. But what do I know 🤪
Yeah as much as i love tavares but i all comes back to that signing. They dont sign tavares to 11 million no way marner and matthews sign that high of contracts 100%
Never thought of it like that I completely agree. I feel they could have easily saves like 7-8 million between those three contracts. If any of the 4 have to go tho I think my vote would be Tavares or marner. Think about the depth you could get with 12 or shit 24 million LOL I’m gona get lit up for this comment I’m sure tho
@@joshbehehe yeah man 100% think about it okay so nylanders deal honestly isnt even that bad. 6.9 million and he actually showed up and put up 8 points in 7 games. Like maybe he wouldve signed for 6-6.5 but still 6.9 i aint mad about it. Now matthews without tavares @11 he signs for more than nylander which hey i understand but maybe its only like 8-8.5? Than marner for what 7.5-8? Thats big savings plus no 11million in a aging center no offense to him. Than on top of that maybe brown johnsson and kapanen sign cheaper deals you never know. And if not we still moved them anyways or couldve kept them cause we wouldve had cap space lol
Problem was dubas...Lou should have been the GM, would never signed JT Mathews would get the same $$$ but more term and marner would have sat out untill he signed his 8M deal...Lou is an old man who knows hockey and doesn’t give money away for free.
I have thought this for a couple years. They should have told him the best they could do is 9.5. If he signed at 9.5 matthews marner and nylander would have all taken 1-2 million less each
Marner and Matthews should have taking 1mil less each and they never should have signed Tavares. They could have easily gotten a 60-70pt 2nd line center for 6mil/yr. That leaves them with 5mil for anything you want.
It's funny how the conversation changed from Nylander being the problem with a too expensive contract and ought to be traded into him being one of the better contracts versus performance on the Leafs.
Maybe they should. I do know, Kessel had the same knock against him and look what happened. On the right team, this guy is one offensive cog of the machine. He can't lead a team.
Imagine being in game 7, u have the last change n you see danault come over the boards n you still send out your matthews line to get pummeled. Y not throw matthews line out there vs anyone else?
I don’t think a good mentor is the saving grace, considering dubas has brought in Marleau, spezza, Thornton, Simmons and foligno (and more) in the span of a couple years. Something is wrong with the guy, and I agree he will figure it out with another team
Marner is a very frail player. He's scared to take hits and he doesnt fight for pucks in the corners. As soon as hes going to get hit, he just dumps the puck. Marner isn't built for the playoffs
I am not a leafs fan, in fact I’m a habs fan. But I have absolutely no idea how the maple leafs underperformed sooooo bad. I love thought Dubas made a really good team. Solid mix of new and old players. Some really talented guys and in the regular season they were fantastic. This was legit a solid all around team. They simply underperformed. They lost themselves. Anyway, go habs go ! Haha
Yeah leafs fan here rooting for u guys in round 2, but Mitch marner should not be traded the Toronto media blows everything out of proportion and I have a feeling if they trade him as matthews said “good luck with that” they will lose matthews and regret the trade!
@@rachaelwilson3210 I couldn’t agree more. The leafs would be stupid to get rid of Marner. Honestly, the leafs just need a good solid look in the mirror because the players lost it, not the coaches or gm.
@@rachaelwilson3210 just saying he shouldn't be traded is just stupid and shortsighted! he hasn't performed in the playoffs yet, hes small, hes got a bit of an attitude as well! not saying trade him for nothing but there are lots of players i would absolutely trade marner for! he looked like a guy already on holidays to me!
@@DrunkenGuitarGuy why would be trade a guy top 4 in points we can’t only rely on him and so he had a playoff run that under preformed, we lose him we probably lose matthews. And I just know if the leafs traded him we would definitely regret it.
@@rachaelwilson3210 you're making quite a leap saying they would lose matthews! i think there has been ego tension between them ever since marner demanded to get paid the same, and he absolutely isn't worth the same at all! matthews wasn't great but he was at least trying, he proved he could handle the physical game... marner looked like a guy already on holidays, and he proved he CAN'T handle the physical game! hes done nothing in the playoffs yet, like i said, don't trade him just to trade him but i would absolutely be listening to offers!
O'Dog said it best in a previous show...The path to the semi finals this year was the easiest it will ever be and they still couldn't win the first round.
Trade Marner.... then be prepared to watch Matthew's production drop dramatically. Then be prepared to bite your fingernails whether or not leafs make the playoffs. He's 24. If he doesn't learn from this episode, and same problem exists next spring, then make the move. It's up to Marner to shed a growing rep as a regular season dandy who does a vanishing act in the playoffs. He's earned the one more chance. To be blaming 2 players for a total team meltdown is not reasonable.
The Tavares hit sent chills down Marners spine..he was shook all series.. he was hesitant to do anything. I don't think he is ever gonna be the same after he witnessed that. I love Marner but he isn't gonna be a player that will take us there in the playoffs .. the season yeah, playoffs hell no.
The only reason he got some grit is because of shanahan. DUmBASs is still to blame why the leafs is labeled as a soft team and right there, opposing teams have game plan against you and that is to play you tough. Just look at his last 20 draft picks....1 guy over 6ft and 1 guy over 200 lbs. He just does not get it. He is probably blaming having foligno and simmonds in the lineup as the reason we lost. Remember DUmBASs is the same guy who got rid of Martin, komarov and polak within 1 month and left KAdri as the only grit on the team. That is the real DUmBASs.
uncle leo is still playing though .... and hard against my bruins i might add. he shows up in the playoffs and is not afraid to go into the corners to fight for a puck
keep marner, trade willy now that his stock is high, for a top six power forward. one of the leafs problem, is that their top 2 lines which get most of the ice time, don't have a power forward that can score, be defensively sound and most importantly go out of their way to hit the opposing players. ( luc dubois, max jones, tkachuk brothers, josh anderson, find those type of forwards)
I love that they are referencing Edmonton to make themselves feel better. Lol Edmonton at least tried and went out quick Toronto gave everyone hope and screwed it up just stop with the Edmonton talk it wasn’t the same
Why hasn't there been a team with double digit cap hit been past the first round until this season? 01. Because there's no money left for anyone else who's any good 02. The referees traditionally stop calling penalties - allowing the plumbers success and skilled players are hogtied.
@@wnsbug No clue lol. But maybe finding a trade for Tavares to free up some cap space would help. Maybe trying to trade him to Vegas in exchange for Fleury and some other assets?
I'd love it but they'll never make that work. Leafs would probably have to eat 2-3M and I don't think this would be straight up. I think Jones is worth more, frankly.
Joe Pavelski went down in round 1 two playoffs ago. The Sharks made it to the WCF. You can fight on w/ out your Captain. Heck, it can be your rallying cry
Why? What a stupid question! How about put some big guys (6’4”) on separate lines with Marner? They lost one on one matchups, and it looked like inexperience. Hate to say it, Sheldon Keefe is a big part of the reason they lost. We saw the Leafs top line unable to execute from our couches at home. Why Keefe didn’t put Jumbo Joe and Spezza on the ice more often, and who have proven themselves to come up big, I cannot know. How many times was the coach going to ignore blind passes (Galchenyuk) and blind shooting (Hyman)????
Marner's contract was structured with bonuses, so that after is 9.6 mil bonus this summer, he's owed 750k in cash, and for the next three years, he's owed 8mil in cash per year. So, a team trading for him after the leafs pay his bonus this year would be getting a hell of a deal, wouldn't they?
@@sierravortec2494 did you know that since the cap era not one team with a player making over 10 million has made it past the second round a lot of teams will not take on that type of salary especially for a guy that has no goals in the playoffs and is making over 10 million dollars that's why I said the lease would have to retain some of his salary because you have to have death in the playoffs and that means lots of dirt and fourth line players making three four million dollars you can't have three players on one team making 10 million bucks
@@BurtTurbo I was just telling another person that since the salary cap era no team with a player making $10 million has made it past the first round leaves have three players making around that much marner has no goals in a cup of playoffs that's why he would be a tough trade Austin Matthews or nylander would be a more suitable and more attractive to other teams if marner had more playoff experience then he would be worth it and teams would take a chance on him
The Leafs forwards still lacked an identity to me. Sure 16/34/88/91 are beasts. But what are the rest of them? Kerfoot, Mikhayev, Galchenyuk, Thornton, Simmonds did nothing in G5 G6 G7.
To be fair to Simmonds he needs to be taken off the fourth line and put with some guys who play his style. Thornton has been useless all year long, he can’t skate I can’t believe Keefe was so scared of him to never make him sit.
Trade Marner? WHAT? Ok, I'm a Jets fan, but that's absolutely ridiculous. If you think of trading Marner, you should consider trading Matthews as well. Edmonton may as well trade Draisitl and McDavid since they were just as absent on the point sheet. There's so much call out to trade Marner, yet I feel like he was playing a much stronger game than Matthews was. At least Marner looked strong defensively, and if you aren't putting up points in the playoffs, you may as well at least be strong defensively. Why did the Leafs lose the series? Because their depth wasn't showing up often enough. That series hangs litterally on Nylander's line carrying the team. The first line was going to have issues because there was defensive commitment from Montreal to shut them down, you can only fault them so much, but that's the playoffs. A couple players can not carry a whole team through rounds. Edmonton and Toronto are perfect examples of that. This one is on the 3rd and 4th line and partially the coach.
Surprised, I found someone without smooth-brain. Trading the 4th highest scorer is unbelievably ridiculous, and people need to understand that $10 mil is worth it today.
Lol they lost because they're depth wasnt showing up? Dubas had to hit the phones in the off season to beg guys to come to Toronto for a DISCOUNT. WHY A DISCOUNT?? Because Dubas, like a kid in a candy store, blew all his money on the first thing he saw. You're blaming a bunch of washed up vets and a few sophomores when half the cap money was spent on 4 guys?? Wake the fuck up!! I'm a Jets fan too, could you imagine if any of the Jets were making $11 million? What would Winnipeggers expect out of that guy?? What would they expect out of 3 of them?? If you have 3 guys making $11 million each on a team their names better be Crosby, Ovechkin and Kane or expect your team to be a complete shit show.
Great comparison between them and the Oilers. Tavares knocked out early hurt them depth/scoring wise for sure, and Carey Price stole game 7 and the series to sum it up
@@justawinddown it's funny that you make that point, and then dial in on being like Ovechkin. Who took a decade to win his first cup while driving the team for all those years, no different than Matthews or Marner.
I know you didn’t just say Marner was better than Matthews defensively. Thats blasphemous Rotflmao. Matthews never turns the puck over and can actually take/dish out a hit! Marner is so soft he should be on the cover of soft charmin! Delay of game with nobody near you? Turnover of first goal of game 7? I’d take Matthews 1000 times over
What has Marner done in the playoffs? He has scored how many goals in all his playoffs? He.plays scared when they get to the post season. So yes trade him.
Keep the same Core. But like another TH-camr commented on, the Leafs need a phycologist or something. A full time one to help them with mental issues. Because they should have won in game 5 but ended up blowing it in all last 3 games. That's a mental issue.
@@DrunkenGuitarGuy I really hope Matthews and Marner are Pationate about the game and about winning. Especially with the price tag the Leafs are stuck paying them. Personally I believe they love the game and they love to win. Just that they need help with the Playoffs mental state, because Toronto's fan base and the media are overly aggressive and can potentially throw players off their game.
This is what you get, when you stack your team with "POWDER PUFFS", bring in players that want the cup, instead of the money, because these high priced players, don't have the balls it takes, to win the CUP!!!
Marner looked like a player who deserves league min in that series, tavares being out should have no affect on him. I don’t know how dubas can go back to the office this offseason with out seeing what he could potentially get for marner
Seeing Toronto and their fans in shambles and silently scrambling for excuses and trying to pass around the blame makes me sleep better at night LMAO If you don't want Marner, as a Habs fan ill gladly take him
For what? You trade him you spend a decade looking for another guy who does what he does, and odds are matthews will want out ASAP. It would be better to invest in his training, bulk him up a bit work on his shot and confidence. At this point it’s either small changes or blow it up
It's way worse. The DeRozan Raps would at least consistently make it out of the 1st or 2nd round, they just ran into the monster of the LeBron Cavs. DeRozan couldn't consistently get it done in the post season, but his track record of individual play still blows Marner out of the water. And nobody is trading the Leafs Kahwi for Marner
@@taitfraser8727 you're right about the playoffs & LeBron...but outside of this playoff, Marner was solid in both the regular season and playoffs. 21 points in 25 playoff games, blocking shots and one of the rare good things on the PK
If they trade Marner, I definitely feel like Matthews will be jilted. Unless the move results in a cup before Matthews' contract is up, I feel it is too risky. I'm not a Leafs fan, but this core just needs time to get over their mindset. They need to get pissed and grow up.
The Oilers had a lot of dead cap space and the Koskinen and Neal contracts. Some of that dead cap space frees up next season. If the Oilers can get out from under Neal's or Koskinen's contracts they dont have the problem of 3 $11 million dollar players. McD has a big AAV and Draisaitl is a bargain. Ken Holland isnt young and inexperienced like Dubas.
How were the lines not shuffled? Couldve made the first line Hyman Nylander Marner, second line foligno matthews soups. Need to spread the talent if stacking one line doesn't work.
So funny all the whiny babies who expect a private company to cater to them because they cheer for a small market team. This is a Toronto radio station show that tsn smartly posted to TH-cam. I’m sure your small markets have their own radio stations.
Lol even when they talk about the Jets or Oilers all the Jets and Oilers fans make jokes about the Leafs in the comments. They need Toronto because their teams aren't that interesting
No you don’t trade Marner smh. As much as it sucks for Leafs fans, you don’t trade your star players. You build around them. You just need them to be better. If they’re not, then it is what it is. That’s your team then.
I would hold on to Marner if I were part of the Leafs brass. The calls for the firing squad of coaches, GM and President are absurd. If you are going to entertain ideas for Marner rethink your options until it’s no longer an option. Marner’s value just went down for when he does renegotiate a contract. Use that to your advantage, Dubas. Unless he turns out to be an unwelcoming personality in the locker room. Sincerely, Habs fan
Two things, 11-12 mill is a quality 2-3 Rd line , when one goes down you basically loose 3 players based on salary. Second , Marner and Mathews should be asked to renegotiate his contract for 7.5 (most his cash is paid) or trade him.
they better not trade marner. just because he wasn’t the best in the playoffs, he was still good in the regular season. no one was talking about this during the season but just because he wasn’t good in the playoffs, everyone is talking about trading him. but that’s my opinion and everyone else has different opinions. i don’t think he should get traded
I agree he was good in the regular season but you build a team to win the Stanley cup, not the presidents trophy. The playoffs are when it matters and Marner has not delivered
Me neither cus what the hell are they gonna get for him first of all and Matthews needs a guy like him to really help out. I think they should keep going for it until it finally works.
When Players started getting double digit contracts it crippled Teams period. Teams that hold Their Players to normal contracts $6 -7 million for a star means that they can build around Him and vie for a cup. Look at Toronto they have what 3 Double digit and an $8 Mil and cant afford quality players and end up having to pay Over the hill Guys and make them seem like the second coming. That or Play prospects burn the ones that cant jump into the deep end and swim but who could have been good Players. Recycling draft picks before they hit 24 years Old because You cant pay them is insane! Thornton and Simmonds actually did what in the Playoffs? Give Great speeches because If thats true they fell on deaf ears. Toronto has painted itself into a corner right now. Theres no magic solution like getting abetter Goalie out there for them.
The whole team played it like a friendly game of p/u hockey. It comes down to this. The modern NHL has become two line hockey. Pat Quinn said years ago " to win you have to roll 4 lines" playing your top players every other shift kills 3rd and 4 the line production. You could have top end players down low. They still need ice time.
@@vansh1968 Considering he got hurt and didn't play the whole series no he wasn't but I think Tavares being hurt was a huge reason they lost, Carey Price being the biggest reason
The contracts would've been priced fine if COVID didn't flatten the cap terribly, brutal. I don't blame Dubas for this at all. Stars turned into fucking ghosts out there.
@@KS-xk2so not blaming Dubas for overpaying Marner and Tavares is negligent. If being “home” meant so much to those guys, they wouldnt need 10MM per year….
@@lukaz3336 Brodie was massive. Perfect fit for what we needed, and he delivered huge. Fair value too I think. I hope Dubas can get Hyman to stay for something in the 5 range, AAV. Love that guy.
@@KS-xk2so the stars turned into ghosts AGAIN. The GM paid these guys before they proved or accomplished anything in the league. He could've bridge dealt Marner and Matthews. He didnt have to hand Tavares $11 million a year after captaining the Islanders to the playoffs just 3 times in 10 years. He didnt have to roll over and give what Nylander asked for. He handcuffed the Leafs 30 days onto the job by giving Tavares his contract. They're fucked for 4 more years. Any kind of deal they make they're going to lose cuz theyll have to sweeten it cuz they're underwater on these contracts. Without Covid the Leafs STILL have 3 guys making $11 million per that they're desperate to get rid of at least one of. Who is lining up to take and pay Marner after these playoffs? Even Tavares? Should he even be alive? The Leafs are completely fucked and its cuz they hired an inexperienced GM that had no business being where he was. Wake up.
It's not a one dimensional issue especially the way he handled the contract negotiations. Even the loyal fans of Marner are still bitter about that and I'm one of them. In this market it's not only about producing its about the effort you give wearing that jersey. It's not a surprise Gary Roberts, Darcy Tucker, Nazem Kadri we're admired
It's a good thing the fans aren't in charge of roster moves. Take the time to assess what happened and what needs to happen to improve. Knee jerk reactions never worked in the past and they don't work now. Having said that, Leaf brass will make just enough changes to make Leaf Nation optimistic (again) in October.
TSN in a nutshell:
Week 1: are the leafs gonna win the Stanley cup?
Week 2: what's wrong with the leafs?
Week 3: are the leafs gonna win the Stanley cup?
Week 4: what's wrong with the leafs?
lol sucks for leafs fans
Week 5: should Marner win the Hart Trophy?
Week 6: Should the Leafs trade Marner?
Leafs suck hahaha
@@Mattoilers97 ur in the same boat cry more.
@@Mattoilers97 you got swept bud. Don’t think you should make a public comment until next year.
Leafs before 1st round: Is Jack Campbell our #1?
Leafs after 1st round: Ok what can we get for that bum Marner?
Lol
Marner is one of the best players in the NHL; trading him would make the Leafs even worse, The real problem is management that is incompetent. FIRE DUBAS, FIRE KEEFE, FIRE SHANAHAN.
@@melvynobrien6193 I mean they have all solid players in their organization. Not sure they are the problem.
@@gerrywilkins2221 Lol hard to take someones opinion seriously when they think the Leafs gm is a Winnipeg Jets center.
@@nathanmarshall9483 Too many soft scorers in the lineup. Need healthy grinders and scorers not allergic to corners.
Toronto shouldn’t trade Marner but however they should trade the team to Quebec City and in exchange get a summer golfing membership
That Franchise still exists and is in Colorado The Nords/Avs are the Same
@@JBTriple8 really? They were losers when they were in Quebec. They lost most of the games and fights to the Habs.
@@justawinddown and they brought back the igloo and Fleur De Lis in there Current my point still stands
@T Rap excuse me? people can’t afford to watch a game in Quebec? the bell center, where the canadiens plays, is sold out every game. On top of that, montreal canadien is one of the team that makes the most money in the league and you tell me people cant affort to watch a game in QC??
These 3 should be traded. Awful hockey panel. Should be ashamed of yourselves
Absurd question. They may consider sending him to Gary Robert's to put on ten or fifteen pounds of muscle though.
Yessssss
Will that solve all their problems? Objectively I don’t know. Marner is not a particularly threatening shooter, hence the no goals. But why did he not have many assists? Is it just because Matthews was shut down? Should they separate Mariner and Matthews? Would they have more success that way? All questions I feel like they have to ask themselves in the off season. Marner needs to hold himself accountable for a lack of play off production. I’m not saying he’s solely responsible for the loss. That’s a lot to put on someone who I’m sure is already beating himself up internally. But you gotta ask yourself if you’re Marner, is that the best you got?
I’ve been saying this for years
I don't believe that's the extent of it. He doesn't seem mentally strong to win when the pressures high. Look at his body language in game 7 dude looks defeated before the game was even over and still within reach. True stars elevate their game when it matters the most. Sure he's paid like a star but gets rattled far too easily. Which also explains all the over the glass penalties. No sympathy from me though when you selfishly squeeze your hometown team for every penny.
Roberts was a beast. Send marker there for sure!
It’s simple. Don’t pay guys cup type money without earning it first. These guys love the money more than winning. You’re just hungrier when you got to earn it. Dubas made good moves but still on him for signing these guys at the money he did. That’s straight up facts
You don’t pay people based on how many cups they have 😂😂😂
ya they were up 3 - 1 and thought, do we really want to play another round?? na! matthews was trying but marner looked like absolute shit!
No playoff performance absolutely is a huge part of how much you make. How many second rounds have Matthews and Marner seen to be worth that much? They are eating up their cap space too much. Shed 2 million off of the top 3 guys and that is 6 million dollars you can use to upgrade something they need. Like a defenseman
The man behind the Odd Man Rush TH-cam Channel awhile ago posted videos on 1-time Oilers’ forward Nail Yakupov, drafted #1 overall by that team. Although he enjoyed initial success in the NHL, he ultimately turned out to be a dud in that league.
After the Colorado Avalanche decided not to renew his contract, he decided to join KHL club SKA St. Petersburg after practically no NHL team was prepared to sign him. That was although the league with which he signed happened to be in his homeland as prominent as that league is among pro-ice hockey leagues around the world.
Yakupov, during his long KHL stint, bounced around a bunch of teams before finally finding a home with one for well under US$1 million per year. Too many Leaf players feel as entitled as him, and I hope that will change, and that the coaching staff will remind each and everyone of those players that what happened to Yakupov could happen to any 1 of them. Although Dubas & Shanahan need to go as executives of the Leafs, their jobs should not be the only ones to go during the current off-season.
@@wainber1 you forgot about one thing, Russia have flat fees system which mean, from 1mln you would keep around 850K, same time in Canada if you earn 2mln you only have about 1mln, huge difference. I better said let's talk how Tavares earn 1.5 Mil more then Kucherov or Point, 1.5Mil more than Ovechkin, list goes on, and Tavares play for the Home team, where is discount? Why leafs culture like that, this is his fucking hometown or place where he dreamt to play all his life, why he have more money than players i mentioned above, And i'm not even mentioned that Kucherov when he was number one in the team for points gave huge bridge discount for team and play for 5.5Mil just because TBL can't save other huge players whitout this discount! Brayden Point play for 6.5Mil i think untill 2022, why sign this greed players mind blowing. This is all and completely everything fault of greed and absolute stupidity of leafs. btw eng my second language so...
"You have to feel like your franchise is cursed at this point, honest to god" last words of the segment. Hahaha
Its not cursed. Its that the top guys don't know how to play Playoff hockey and don't know how to adjust when the opponent adjusts its game plan to counter yours. That's on the Coaching Staff, they've failed this group.
One good example is the fact Marner should have been separated from Matthews in Game 5, 6 & 7. Just to try and spark something. Take pressure off Marner and put him on line 2 and placing Nylander on Line 1. Anyhow they should also have a full time Doctor in the house during the Playoffs to help with mental issues from this team.
@@nickt6595 but the Habs just didn’t change their game plan...dump it in and crash the net...
@@jesselayes3405 They altered the game play ever so slightly. The 4 + 1 clogging up the Neutral Zone, then dumping the puck in and crashing the net as you said.
@@nickt6595 All good points. As LeBrun implied, it really boils down to Dubas' inability to sign players to single digit contracts. I bet Dubas pays MSRP (if not over the sticker price) when buying a new car.
lol floater
The Leafs will trade Marner to Detroit forcing Marker to yell, "The Leafs will never win the Stanley Cup for as long as I live!"
I mean... we’ll take him...
They’ll not win in his lifetime anyway.
@@Rob-uc8zr are you sure??
He’s got our curse attached to him by now surely...
Detroit dont want him, no floaters
@@Listman11 Oh David, you must have missed the news... our GM is a proven winner, and he has the benefit of not needing a spill proof cup when he drinks!
I've never understood how Tavares is worth 11 million or whatever he's making. Joe Thornton has never done anything.
I was the one Islanders fan who was happy Tavares left. I said, before he left, that he wasn't worth what they would have pay him. People said I was crazy. I honestly wouldn't have wanted him at half the price if he were to remain the first line center and the team captain. Move him to the wing, make him an alternate captain, tell him he had to learn to be less selfish with the puck... OK, I'd cope with that, but he would have never agreed to it. Tavares left, because Lamorello would never have let him run the team like Snow did. I just can't thank the Leafs enough for luring him away.
That was Tavares's price tag. $11M take it or leave it. The mistake Dubas made was Signing Tavares before Signing Matthews & Marner. Had Dubas Signed Matthews and Marner to a deal B4 Tavares, both of those players would have gotten under $10M each. Matthews probably $9.5M to $10M at 5 years and Marner $8M at 6 years. But by signing Tavares 1st at his price of $11M take it or leave it, that opened up the pricing for the other 2 stars. So in that respect, Dubas made a HUGE MISTAKE on those 3 signings.
@@SarahMaywalt Leafs acquired Tavares for his Playoff experience and ability to drive a top line and score. Tavares is a great player. It was a smart Leafs acquisition. Though I still think he was about $2M too much.
@@nickt6595 Caving to Nylander was also a huge mistake. They had the top scoring team in the league at that time and should have let him sit out the year.
it was also shanahans fault for hiring an inexperienced gm to sign the core guys. they took advantage of that and got as much as they wanted. tavares never asked for anything. there was a bidding war and the price went up way to high. marner asked for matthews money.
is anyone gonna talk about how that so called “depth” performed or are we just focusing on Marner. nothing you can do can change the real issue. heart. desire to win. that game 7 was just simply not caring. pathetic display. brutal.
That depth won us game 2, 3, 4 and brought us to OT after losing in both games 5 and 6
Marner most definitely needs to be traded; he showed his true colors during the RFA negotiations, and his lack of heart and production clearly shows that he has to go. Even Matthews may need to be traded 1-for-1 for another star talent; it worked for the Toronto Raptors, after all.
The depth is somewhat the issue, but certainly not in comparison to teams like the Oilers.
@@furyleone100 Exactly. At some point we gotta look at our stars.
@@lukaz3336 Exaclty you bring stars onto a team to win you games and our stars couldn’t win us 1 game the whole series. It’s sad when our all 3 of our defensive pairings either had more goals or had the same amount out of goals as our first line through 7 games
@@TheEDFLegacy yup, the guy clearly doesn't care about being here, he turned down 11 million x 8 years(which is a massive overpayment) to take 10.9 million over 5 years. Send him to Columbus for best package available and let him do as many commericals as he wants in Columbus. If you can't find cheaper wingers to play with Matthews and Tavares then they aren't good enough to win. You don't need wingers making over 10 million to play with centres making over 10 million especially in a cap that is not going up. What a disaster
You can’t put too much of your cap on the top 4 players. Too risky in the playoffs. You not only need several lines but the injury risk is too high.
Let's hear from O Dog....lol he was so bang on with his first round prediction of the leafs
Marner is what Gaudreau is for the Flames.. love to have him in the regular season, disappears in the playoffs
Agreed
Except he costs twice as much
@@cottonswab72 Yep…..and Gaudreau can shoot and score
Marner is a bum you dorks. 0 goals in his past 18 playoff games, avoids physical contact at all costs, routinely fails to rise to the occasion every year. This combined that he held out for as much money as he could get and now the Leafs have to constantly tip-toe around his cap hit forever. The franchise should definitely look at trading him.
Contracts for 16 and 91 are bad.
If you trade Marner, you lose that trade 9 times out of 10. Don’t trade star players.
thanks batman
Except for that one time you get Eichel in return
You do trade stars when that guy makes WAY more than he's worth and accomplished in the league. And when you have two more of those kind of guys on the team you get rid of him if you want a fuckin prayer. Pick any one of those $11 million dollar players and get rid of them. Its crystal clear that this team cannot win with this foundation.
Better than losing in the first round 9 out of 10 times
@@coltukkor abso-fuckin-lutely
You trade him and Matthews won't be scoring as much, the holes in his game will be more visible.
Don't agree one bit.
@@StarFinderWebb you wouldn't because you didnt get to watch Marner is OHL years he was magical. He has that hockey sense that on star players have, Matthews doesn't have that. I'm not an OVI fan he is a true scorer who can make the plays for himself. Matthews will drop of because on trick ponies don't last long.
Couldn’t agree more
@@b.connelly6 said no one ever
He scored 40 his first season with Nylander as his right winger
“Matthews, Marner, and Tavares are worth every penny” also, “you can’t win with a top heavy team” also, “they didn’t pull their weight” sooooo are they actually worth every penny?
Can’t really blame Tavares for not performing in the playoffs this year.
After listening to these pundits on all the networks, how come there’s no heat at Sheldon Keefe? He made zero adjustments this series except benching Sandin after game 5. His bottom six except Spezza did nothing the whole series. Mikheyev, Thornton, Simmonds should’ve been benched. Where was Nick Robertson? Can’t say he’d be worse than what those 3 did the whole series.
Exactly. No action taken when he saw Danault's line was shutting down Matthews' either.
Lmao nick Robertson in a bottom 6 role? Yeah sure! Let’s see how that works out for you
@@ryanwatson9502 can’t be any worse than Mikheyev or slow mo Joe
@@crownhorse48 no I get that, but that’s what the other guy said. It’s a personnel problem. You don’t have the proper bottom 6 players. You guys have like 12 skilled forwards. That’s not gonna work in the playoffs
Kane and Toews are just different is what i’m hearing
Especially Kane. I remember him being so damn clutch for the hawks during the playoffs - coming from a wings fan!
Notice how after they paid them the big bucks, Chicago hasn't won anything??
@@joshbribiesca2803 Toews was up there with him, Kane may have gotten a few more points but Toews was doing so much more overall. Two of the best players I’ve ever seen, so clutch.
@@vt1340 true but at least they got 3 cups out of it. Plus there were plenty of other reasons for the decline in play. hossa retired, Seabrooks physicality caught up with him, trading Panarin, Sharp leaving. After winning 3 cups and the hardware those two guys collected I think they deserved a payday and it would have been much worse to let them walk for nothing
@@domenicsimsiris2921 Toews is one of the most undeserving superstars in the league. Dudes a joke.
I wouldn’t try to trade Marner, the guy is still just 24 but at the same time I think you have to at least listen and consider a trade if a reasonable one becomes available. (Etc Eichel or move him for Seth Jones). Losing 5 straight series in the Matthews/Marner era at this point in time is unacceptable
Seth Jones for marner could possibly be one of the worst possible trades we could make for him. I think if anything we should ourselves go for someone like Tkachuk with an added bonus of someone like hanafin. Seth Jones isn’t nearly as good as marner
Listen and consider?? NO. If you're Shanny you get on the phone and work your ass off to get his contract off your books and save your job!
Him for Eichel seems like a good trade
@@vmi4172 any control Shanahan thinks he has should be severed at this point. Dubas is his doing and they both need to be fired.
@@jonathangordon448 it obviously wouldn’t be a straight up trade for Jones. Jones is a UFA and you’d make room for another piece to go with him by moving Marner. Highly unlikely that even happens tho
"As long as the Toronto media doesn't wanna make a major moves to the roster then Dubas will never take a risk.. and the leafs will be in this exact spot"
I remember saying this last year and it's even more true this year
Tsn 2 weeks ago: “Mitch Marner is so amazing and he’s going to win us the cup!”
Tsn now: Trade Marner and other excuses
Guy was expected to produce when called upon. No dif than any other job.
Well that's how it goes when you don't deliver. They're not exactly reinventing the wheel here buddy
The LEAFS should get a few bags of pucks for $11 million!!!
Never heard that one man.
Exactly..
Well put !!!!!!
Guys like Toews and Crosby are “real” franchise players. Generational players mean nothing. Those two are just like Messier. Proven winners at everything they do. Excellent leaders on and off the ice, and more importantly, they got the job done and then some!
Also toews, kane and Crosby didn't get their payday until they won the cup.
@@Beezie23 Crosby's first contract took up 17.30% of the Pens cap space (8.7mill AAV x 5 years) when he signed his post ELC contract (had not won the cup yet), McDavid's took 16.67% of the Oiler's cap space (12.5mill x 8 years) when he signed his post ELC contract.
He didn't take a cheaper cut because he wanted to help the team out, his cut was already big enough.
They’re 23. They have time. Teows and kane got lucky by winning so young because they got out into a team that was already stacked when they were on their entry levels.
@@Beezie23 | EXACTLY!!! THAT'S WHAT ALL OF THES GM'S FAIL TO REALIZE...and in most cases, not only did they pay for an unproven guy, they set the market with their contract!! 🤭 wtf
hese contracts in most cases have
@Cole Woodard | Crosby has 3 Stanly Cups...crosby doesn't choke. It was the pens goalie in game 5 who choked. Did you even watch one game??
Blame the entire team, top to bottom. Toronto media always wants to point a finger at someone. Watch Marner leave and win a cup somewhere else. Y'all ran away with the division and than lost a 3-1 lead. Absolutely pathetic.
Lmaooo look at your comments you're bitching and whining on every single one
They never even held a lead in a game in the series since game 4. LOL
@@Austin997 rather that than watch my team do what the leafs did
@@Austin997 Im hate the leafs goof, just pointing out the obvious 🤡
@@VishtheFish101 loving the grammar from you today
The tittle: should the leafs trade Marner
Me: HELL YES
Why? He is their best playmaker. If he gets traded Matthews won’t score as much, Tavares won’t score as much and etc.
@@ProdbyGash uh, I think your forgetting that Matthews scored like 40+ in his rookie year with only playing with nylander, and he did that for a couple more years, and imagine what they can do with that 11 million off the books
Lol 18 playoff games 0 goals, cmon man. Regular season is great and all but means nothing when in the playoffs Houdini is on the ice
Absolutely NOT.
Even when the leafs are out Toronto sports network won’t shut up about the leafs
Its good question tho but who care I'm a Jets Fan
I know right
Moron right here 🤦♂️
Exactly. Playoffs are still going on. Talk about that instead
It's literally the day after a shocking playoff exit, you expect them to not talk about it? You're dumber than dirt.
Everyone told them it'll be next to impossible to win with 3 or 4 forwards making close to 40 mill. It makes the rest of your F lineup thin. They have Rielly on a steal luckily or else they'd be even more screwed on D.
yes SF_91 best to never try anything. not hiring good players is a likely good strategy
Would/should the Leafs consider Marner for Eichel? Totally insane or crazy like a fox???
This was exactly my thought
The Sabres wouldn’t. They have a star centre in Eichel and that’s about it for Elite offence. If they give Eichel up for Marner they now have a complimentary winger who specializes in setting up a star centre that the Sabres wouldn’t have
@@Warpbox they aren't going to recieve a better deal from anyone else. Eichel ain't staying either
No thanks.
Eichel injured
Here we see some dude reading a script about how great the Toronto Maples players and managers are.
Personally, I would trade him. I think if they could send him to Columbus for Seth Jones and another depth piece then they would be much better off. I haven’t heard their D talked about enough but it needs to be more balanced like the forwards do. But what do I know 🤪
still think we should trade him?
Yeah as much as i love tavares but i all comes back to that signing. They dont sign tavares to 11 million no way marner and matthews sign that high of contracts 100%
Never thought of it like that I completely agree. I feel they could have easily saves like 7-8 million between those three contracts. If any of the 4 have to go tho I think my vote would be Tavares or marner. Think about the depth you could get with 12 or shit 24 million LOL I’m gona get lit up for this comment I’m sure tho
@@joshbehehe yeah man 100% think about it okay so nylanders deal honestly isnt even that bad. 6.9 million and he actually showed up and put up 8 points in 7 games. Like maybe he wouldve signed for 6-6.5 but still 6.9 i aint mad about it. Now matthews without tavares @11 he signs for more than nylander which hey i understand but maybe its only like 8-8.5? Than marner for what 7.5-8? Thats big savings plus no 11million in a aging center no offense to him. Than on top of that maybe brown johnsson and kapanen sign cheaper deals you never know. And if not we still moved them anyways or couldve kept them cause we wouldve had cap space lol
Problem was dubas...Lou should have been the GM, would never signed JT Mathews would get the same $$$ but more term and marner would have sat out untill he signed his 8M deal...Lou is an old man who knows hockey and doesn’t give money away for free.
I have thought this for a couple years. They should have told him the best they could do is 9.5. If he signed at 9.5 matthews marner and nylander would have all taken 1-2 million less each
@@anthonycotugno293 Kadri would've helped
Marner and Matthews should have taking 1mil less each and they never should have signed Tavares.
They could have easily gotten a 60-70pt 2nd line center for 6mil/yr. That leaves them with 5mil for anything you want.
The Leafs may have failed to get out of the first round yet again, but you can't pin this one on Andersen.
@JJnS Farms And now Andersen is going back to Carolina, the team that drafted him first but he refused to sign his ELC there. Watch him succeed there.
It's funny how the conversation changed from Nylander being the problem with a too expensive contract and ought to be traded into him being one of the better contracts versus performance on the Leafs.
Maybe they should. I do know, Kessel had the same knock against him and look what happened. On the right team, this guy is one offensive cog of the machine. He can't lead a team.
he also went to a team to play with arguably one of the best players ever, and a top 10-15 guy ever.
trading Tavares and his 11 mill for some depth might work
Full NMC and noone will want that contract
Tavares is a leader, we need to trade one of the three kids, and i doubt it will be Nylander or Matthews.
@@kirbpernicus9689 The leafs would NEVER trade Austin Matthews.
@@88tylor thats why marner is the best choice! Swap him for ovi baby
@@kirbpernicus9689 hahahahaha oh youre serious hahahahaha really think marner = ovi? laffs fans are something else
Imagine being in game 7, u have the last change n you see danault come over the boards n you still send out your matthews line to get pummeled. Y not throw matthews line out there vs anyone else?
Marner just needs a good mentor, someone to show him the way. He'll find that on another team.
I don’t think a good mentor is the saving grace, considering dubas has brought in Marleau, spezza, Thornton, Simmons and foligno (and more) in the span of a couple years. Something is wrong with the guy, and I agree he will figure it out with another team
Dale hunter
Marner is a very frail player. He's scared to take hits and he doesnt fight for pucks in the corners. As soon as hes going to get hit, he just dumps the puck. Marner isn't built for the playoffs
bruh what. toronto been had mentors da faq... marleau.. thornton... spezza... marner is small scared kid in the playoffs.. not that deep bruh
@@unbearablycringe Ballerina skills he has and sitting out for the big contract daddy told him to do .
I am not a leafs fan, in fact I’m a habs fan. But I have absolutely no idea how the maple leafs underperformed sooooo bad. I love thought Dubas made a really good team. Solid mix of new and old players. Some really talented guys and in the regular season they were fantastic. This was legit a solid all around team. They simply underperformed. They lost themselves. Anyway, go habs go ! Haha
Yeah leafs fan here rooting for u guys in round 2, but Mitch marner should not be traded the Toronto media blows everything out of proportion and I have a feeling if they trade him as matthews said “good luck with that” they will lose matthews and regret the trade!
@@rachaelwilson3210 I couldn’t agree more. The leafs would be stupid to get rid of Marner. Honestly, the leafs just need a good solid look in the mirror because the players lost it, not the coaches or gm.
@@rachaelwilson3210 just saying he shouldn't be traded is just stupid and shortsighted! he hasn't performed in the playoffs yet, hes small, hes got a bit of an attitude as well! not saying trade him for nothing but there are lots of players i would absolutely trade marner for! he looked like a guy already on holidays to me!
@@DrunkenGuitarGuy why would be trade a guy top 4 in points we can’t only rely on him and so he had a playoff run that under preformed, we lose him we probably lose matthews. And I just know if the leafs traded him we would definitely regret it.
@@rachaelwilson3210 you're making quite a leap saying they would lose matthews! i think there has been ego tension between them ever since marner demanded to get paid the same, and he absolutely isn't worth the same at all! matthews wasn't great but he was at least trying, he proved he could handle the physical game... marner looked like a guy already on holidays, and he proved he CAN'T handle the physical game! hes done nothing in the playoffs yet, like i said, don't trade him just to trade him but i would absolutely be listening to offers!
O'Dog said it best in a previous show...The path to the semi finals this year was the easiest it will ever be and they still couldn't win the first round.
Trade Marner.... then be prepared to watch Matthew's production drop dramatically. Then be prepared to bite your fingernails whether or not leafs make the playoffs. He's 24. If he doesn't learn from this episode, and same problem exists next spring, then make the move. It's up to Marner to shed a growing rep as a regular season dandy who does a vanishing act in the playoffs. He's earned the one more chance. To be blaming 2 players for a total team meltdown is not reasonable.
They’ve had 5 chances, 2 where they were the favourite.
@@davidagbi4550 Took Washington and the mighty Ovechkin like 12 chances.
@@lukaz3336 they could get past the first round though.
@@michaelmcdonald3170 They had a 2nd round problem, but they also got eliminated in the first round plenty of times as well.
@@lukaz3336 ovi put up points. Incomparable
The Tavares hit sent chills down Marners spine..he was shook all series.. he was hesitant to do anything. I don't think he is ever gonna be the same after he witnessed that. I love Marner but he isn't gonna be a player that will take us there in the playoffs .. the season yeah, playoffs hell no.
I don’t think they understand why are you selling low wait for him to rebound in the reg season then trade him
100 percent. The leafs are good in the regular season. Get their stock up then sell.
Theres no value on trades for 11 millions a year player... the leafs and Dubas have no plans on getting rid of marner... future will prove me right...
@@belledorris1973 Thats because they gave him a long term contract they cant or wont get rid of him they are stuck with that 11 million .
The only reason he got some grit is because of shanahan. DUmBASs is still to blame why the leafs is labeled as a soft team and right there, opposing teams have game plan against you and that is to play you tough. Just look at his last 20 draft picks....1 guy over 6ft and 1 guy over 200 lbs. He just does not get it. He is probably blaming having foligno and simmonds in the lineup as the reason we lost. Remember DUmBASs is the same guy who got rid of Martin, komarov and polak within 1 month and left KAdri as the only grit on the team. That is the real DUmBASs.
uncle leo is still playing though .... and hard against my bruins i might add. he shows up in the playoffs and is not afraid to go into the corners to fight for a puck
keep marner, trade willy now that his stock is high, for a top six power forward. one of the leafs problem, is that their top 2 lines which get most of the ice time, don't have a power forward that can score, be defensively sound and most importantly go out of their way to hit the opposing players. ( luc dubois, max jones, tkachuk brothers, josh anderson, find those type of forwards)
The stuff these analysts come up with just amazes me.
they are as useful as a poop flavoured lollipop
Lol I know man, I don't think I can take a year of this crap!
Divide his contract by playoff rounds, I'm sure we'll see a different guy.
I love that they are referencing Edmonton to make themselves feel better. Lol Edmonton at least tried and went out quick Toronto gave everyone hope and screwed it up just stop with the Edmonton talk it wasn’t the same
Plus Edmonton didn’t go all in this year.
at least Oilers failed, playing their game. Leafs were to scared to play their run&gun game and tried to play safe. F.U. Toronto !
Yes. Pond hockey wins in regular season. You need grit in the playoffs. Nylander showed Me alot, he should stay. Mitch needs to go.
Agree. Marner is afraid to take a hit and is not built for playoff hockey.
@goosey I'd do that in a heart beat. Use Freddie's cap to get a 1st line winger. I used to rip Nylander more than anyone but he showed he can play.
Why hasn't there been a team with double digit cap hit been past the first round until this season?
01. Because there's no money left for anyone else who's any good
02. The referees traditionally stop calling penalties - allowing the plumbers success and skilled players are hogtied.
As an outside observer the leafs fascinate me. I feel like the media misses half of the real issues with this team.
PLEASE enlighten us, we need it
@@wnsbug Leafs need an elite goaltender ASAP
@@ZrKn_ but who can we possibly get?
@@wnsbug No clue lol. But maybe finding a trade for Tavares to free up some cap space would help. Maybe trying to trade him to Vegas in exchange for Fleury and some other assets?
Well trade Hellebuyck for Matthews and Marner you retain 60% of both players salary
Can't believe the media continues to push the narrative that Dubas has done a good job.
He was, until yesterday!
I Would be fine if they traded him and used his cap space to sign Seth Jones
I’d like for them to trade marner and a first and second for panarin and try to sign Jones with the cap space
@@bencooper7109 Panarin makes just as much if not more.
I'd love it but they'll never make that work. Leafs would probably have to eat 2-3M and I don't think this would be straight up. I think Jones is worth more, frankly.
Who would ever take that contract?
Small market teams with cap but low cash
I'll trade you Mackinnon for the entire leafs franchise.
That's one of the most high book valued franchise in the NHL for 1 player.
Look at the ex leafs who are still in the hunt for a cup lol . Leafs top line was not good enough , l
i’m not even a leafs fan but kinda got to look at dubas a least a little bit... either that or say ur cursed lmao
@Brandon Mahoney Bogosian? Stanley cup...? Remember 2020? I know it was in September but it still happened.
@@jeffm5991 Wait, so Bogosian was a Lightning before signing in Toronto? Now it makes sense why he went back to Tampa...
Joe Pavelski went down in round 1 two playoffs ago. The Sharks made it to the WCF. You can fight on w/ out your Captain. Heck, it can be your rallying cry
That game was legendary. The Sharks had so much heart and they did everything they could to rally.
@@Moda-pf8wt yes they did. I was at that round 1 game 7 game. It was legendary
Why? What a stupid question!
How about put some big guys (6’4”) on separate lines with Marner? They lost one on one matchups, and it looked like inexperience.
Hate to say it, Sheldon Keefe is a big part of the reason they lost. We saw the Leafs top line unable to execute from our couches at home. Why Keefe didn’t put Jumbo Joe and Spezza on the ice more often, and who have proven themselves to come up big, I cannot know.
How many times was the coach going to ignore blind passes (Galchenyuk) and blind shooting (Hyman)????
I agree. Also Simmonds. All 3 of those guys are veterans with playoff experience who know what it takes to win in the playoffs
@@xeper9458 and two of three were garbage the whole series
He's difficult to trade with a fixed cap and no goals In the last 2 playoffs the leafs would have to pick up a large chunk of marners salary
Lmao Marner would be difficult to trade? There would be team lining up to trade for Marner
Marner's contract was structured with bonuses, so that after is 9.6 mil bonus this summer, he's owed 750k in cash, and for the next three years, he's owed 8mil in cash per year. So, a team trading for him after the leafs pay his bonus this year would be getting a hell of a deal, wouldn't they?
@@sierravortec2494 did you know that since the cap era not one team with a player making over 10 million has made it past the second round a lot of teams will not take on that type of salary especially for a guy that has no goals in the playoffs and is making over 10 million dollars that's why I said the lease would have to retain some of his salary because you have to have death in the playoffs and that means lots of dirt and fourth line players making three four million dollars you can't have three players on one team making 10 million bucks
@@BurtTurbo I was just telling another person that since the salary cap era no team with a player making $10 million has made it past the first round leaves have three players making around that much marner has no goals in a cup of playoffs that's why he would be a tough trade Austin Matthews or nylander would be a more suitable and more attractive to other teams if marner had more playoff experience then he would be worth it and teams would take a chance on him
@@westcoast1371 nobody has ever made 10+ until the cap era
*TSN* - You can't win a series with three $11,000,000 players.
*NO* - You can't win with one injured & two playing like turds.
How about a trio of turds? Can you win with that?
@@agi2160 Are you constipated?
@@drewjenkins2318 ANSWER THE QUESTION! THE QUESTION JERK!
@@agi2160 Mom?
@@drewjenkins2318 No, it's your daddy, Drew.
The Leafs forwards still lacked an identity to me. Sure 16/34/88/91 are beasts. But what are the rest of them? Kerfoot, Mikhayev, Galchenyuk, Thornton, Simmonds did nothing in G5 G6 G7.
To be fair to Simmonds he needs to be taken off the fourth line and put with some guys who play his style. Thornton has been useless all year long, he can’t skate I can’t believe Keefe was so scared of him to never make him sit.
Trade Marner? WHAT? Ok, I'm a Jets fan, but that's absolutely ridiculous. If you think of trading Marner, you should consider trading Matthews as well. Edmonton may as well trade Draisitl and McDavid since they were just as absent on the point sheet. There's so much call out to trade Marner, yet I feel like he was playing a much stronger game than Matthews was. At least Marner looked strong defensively, and if you aren't putting up points in the playoffs, you may as well at least be strong defensively.
Why did the Leafs lose the series? Because their depth wasn't showing up often enough. That series hangs litterally on Nylander's line carrying the team. The first line was going to have issues because there was defensive commitment from Montreal to shut them down, you can only fault them so much, but that's the playoffs. A couple players can not carry a whole team through rounds. Edmonton and Toronto are perfect examples of that.
This one is on the 3rd and 4th line and partially the coach.
Surprised, I found someone without smooth-brain. Trading the 4th highest scorer is unbelievably ridiculous, and people need to understand that $10 mil is worth it today.
Lol they lost because they're depth wasnt showing up? Dubas had to hit the phones in the off season to beg guys to come to Toronto for a DISCOUNT. WHY A DISCOUNT?? Because Dubas, like a kid in a candy store, blew all his money on the first thing he saw.
You're blaming a bunch of washed up vets and a few sophomores when half the cap money was spent on 4 guys?? Wake the fuck up!! I'm a Jets fan too, could you imagine if any of the Jets were making $11 million? What would Winnipeggers expect out of that guy?? What would they expect out of 3 of them??
If you have 3 guys making $11 million each on a team their names better be Crosby, Ovechkin and Kane or expect your team to be a complete shit show.
Great comparison between them and the Oilers. Tavares knocked out early hurt them depth/scoring wise for sure, and Carey Price stole game 7 and the series to sum it up
@@justawinddown it's funny that you make that point, and then dial in on being like Ovechkin. Who took a decade to win his first cup while driving the team for all those years, no different than Matthews or Marner.
I know you didn’t just say Marner was better than Matthews defensively. Thats blasphemous Rotflmao. Matthews never turns the puck over and can actually take/dish out a hit! Marner is so soft he should be on the cover of soft charmin! Delay of game with nobody near you? Turnover of first goal of game 7? I’d take Matthews 1000 times over
What has Marner done in the playoffs? He has scored how many goals in all his playoffs? He.plays scared when they get to the post season. So yes trade him.
Keep the same Core. But like another TH-camr commented on, the Leafs need a phycologist or something. A full time one to help them with mental issues. Because they should have won in game 5 but ended up blowing it in all last 3 games. That's a mental issue.
its a not caring issue, some guys just want to make big bucks, these guys already got that! they were already on holidays!
@@DrunkenGuitarGuy I really hope Matthews and Marner are Pationate about the game and about winning. Especially with the price tag the Leafs are stuck paying them. Personally I believe they love the game and they love to win. Just that they need help with the Playoffs mental state, because Toronto's fan base and the media are overly aggressive and can potentially throw players off their game.
no one gonna take marner unless leafs eat half his salary
I disagree. Buffalo, Columbus, Chicago, LA, Anaheim, San Jose would all take him.
Agreed, unless Leafs retain some sort of percentage of Marner salary no one is going to take.
This will change very quickly. The Oilers are on the up-tick and the Leafs are on the down-tick.
This is what you get, when you stack your team with "POWDER PUFFS", bring in players that want the cup, instead of the money, because these high priced players, don't have the balls it takes, to win the CUP!!!
Okay, Don Cherry
Marner looked like a player who deserves league min in that series, tavares being out should have no affect on him. I don’t know how dubas can go back to the office this offseason with out seeing what he could potentially get for marner
Great, now apply for a position in head office.
Why would you blow it up now? Remember what happened to Tampa?
Seeing Toronto and their fans in shambles and silently scrambling for excuses and trying to pass around the blame makes me sleep better at night LMAO
If you don't want Marner, as a Habs fan ill gladly take him
No shit you’d take him the Habs fucken suck
@@DaaaaaBears I agree but what does that say about the leafs then😬
For what? You trade him you spend a decade looking for another guy who does what he does, and odds are matthews will want out ASAP. It would be better to invest in his training, bulk him up a bit work on his shot and confidence.
At this point it’s either small changes or blow it up
Yes, pens can offer Kappanen a first and some goodies 😎
Hey People Would You Like For The Leafs To Trade Marner To CBJ For Seth Jones Or Buffalo Sabers For Jack Echel What Do You Guys Think
This is kind of like Lowry and Derozan where both players kind of choked and were best buddies. Then Masai pulled the triggers on DeRozan
It feels like that, but that would mean they trade Marner and Dermott for O'Reilly, Dunn & a pick
It's way worse. The DeRozan Raps would at least consistently make it out of the 1st or 2nd round, they just ran into the monster of the LeBron Cavs. DeRozan couldn't consistently get it done in the post season, but his track record of individual play still blows Marner out of the water.
And nobody is trading the Leafs Kahwi for Marner
@@taitfraser8727 you're right about the playoffs & LeBron...but outside of this playoff, Marner was solid in both the regular season and playoffs.
21 points in 25 playoff games, blocking shots and one of the rare good things on the PK
If they trade Marner, I definitely feel like Matthews will be jilted. Unless the move results in a cup before Matthews' contract is up, I feel it is too risky. I'm not a Leafs fan, but this core just needs time to get over their mindset. They need to get pissed and grow up.
Good take
Inexperience of the coach killed the Leafs, we need to be physical as well, get the opponents scared to touch the puck!
Exactly and keefe did not make any adjustments.
Keefe had as many goals as Marner in the series
In retrospect did the Leafs win the trade deadline?
Should marner trade the leafs?
To Wood Buffalo
The Oilers had a lot of dead cap space and the Koskinen and Neal contracts. Some of that dead cap space frees up next season. If the Oilers can get out from under Neal's or Koskinen's contracts they dont have the problem of 3 $11 million dollar players. McD has a big AAV and Draisaitl is a bargain. Ken Holland isnt young and inexperienced like Dubas.
I say yes, trade Mitch Marner.
Vasy & kuch are 16,17?
I wouldn’t trade him. Unless you can get two amazing players for the price you sell him at...
How were the lines not shuffled? Couldve made the first line Hyman Nylander Marner, second line foligno matthews soups. Need to spread the talent if stacking one line doesn't work.
So funny all the whiny babies who expect a private company to cater to them because they cheer for a small market team. This is a Toronto radio station show that tsn smartly posted to TH-cam. I’m sure your small markets have their own radio stations.
Lol even when they talk about the Jets or Oilers all the Jets and Oilers fans make jokes about the Leafs in the comments. They need Toronto because their teams aren't that interesting
How long till Matthews wants out?
No you don’t trade Marner smh. As much as it sucks for Leafs fans, you don’t trade your star players. You build around them. You just need them to be better. If they’re not, then it is what it is. That’s your team then.
I would hold on to Marner if I were part of the Leafs brass. The calls for the firing squad of coaches, GM and President are absurd. If you are going to entertain ideas for Marner rethink your options until it’s no longer an option. Marner’s value just went down for when he does renegotiate a contract. Use that to your advantage, Dubas. Unless he turns out to be an unwelcoming personality in the locker room.
Sincerely, Habs fan
Yes. Trade him for someone who’s got a mindset of winning rather than a mindset of being ok with losing as long has he gets coverage and money.
Two things, 11-12 mill is a quality 2-3 Rd line , when one goes down you basically loose 3 players based on salary. Second , Marner and Mathews should be asked to renegotiate his contract for 7.5 (most his cash is paid) or trade him.
they better not trade marner. just because he wasn’t the best in the playoffs, he was still good in the regular season. no one was talking about this during the season but just because he wasn’t good in the playoffs, everyone is talking about trading him. but that’s my opinion and everyone else has different opinions. i don’t think he should get traded
I agree he was good in the regular season but you build a team to win the Stanley cup, not the presidents trophy. The playoffs are when it matters and Marner has not delivered
Me neither cus what the hell are they gonna get for him first of all and Matthews needs a guy like him to really help out. I think they should keep going for it until it finally works.
With their salary cap issues they can't add any depth to their roster when 4 players make up almost half the cap it's hard to build a team
When Players started getting double digit contracts it crippled Teams period. Teams that hold Their Players to normal contracts $6 -7 million for a star means that they can build around Him and vie for a cup. Look at Toronto they have what 3 Double digit and an $8 Mil and cant afford quality players and end up having to pay Over the hill Guys and make them seem like the second coming. That or Play prospects burn the ones that cant jump into the deep end and swim but who could have been good Players. Recycling draft picks before they hit 24 years Old because You cant pay them is insane! Thornton and Simmonds actually did what in the Playoffs? Give Great speeches because If thats true they fell on deaf ears. Toronto has painted itself into a corner right now. Theres no magic solution like getting abetter Goalie out there for them.
The whole team played it like a friendly game of p/u hockey. It comes down to this. The modern NHL has become two line hockey. Pat Quinn said years ago " to win you have to roll 4 lines" playing your top players every other shift kills 3rd and 4 the line production. You could have top end players down low. They still need ice time.
Tavares making 10m a year is friggen hilarious XD
he was better than marner all series long😂
@@vansh1968 Considering he got hurt and didn't play the whole series no he wasn't but I think Tavares being hurt was a huge reason they lost, Carey Price being the biggest reason
@@xeper9458 Also, it wasn't his fault that he got hurt. Nobody could have expected it.
@@xeper9458 that was the joke numnut. Marner was so bad that tavares not playing was probably better
@@PlutoTheSecond Of course not. Why would it be his fault he got hurt? Point being?
Sheldon Keefe's record speaks for itself. He is a great AHL coach.
he was out coched too many times this season.
A solid veteran group of coach's would compliment Keefe nicely in my opinion
yeah they should, he's not a top 9 guy when it matters, too soft. Talented skill wise but only for 82 games
So oilers or Toronto?
Dubas overpaid the core and honestly should be fired
The contracts would've been priced fine if COVID didn't flatten the cap terribly, brutal. I don't blame Dubas for this at all. Stars turned into fucking ghosts out there.
@@KS-xk2so not blaming Dubas for overpaying Marner and Tavares is negligent. If being “home” meant so much to those guys, they wouldnt need 10MM per year….
He did but the moves he made were fantastic in the off season.
@@lukaz3336 Brodie was massive. Perfect fit for what we needed, and he delivered huge. Fair value too I think. I hope Dubas can get Hyman to stay for something in the 5 range, AAV. Love that guy.
@@KS-xk2so the stars turned into ghosts AGAIN. The GM paid these guys before they proved or accomplished anything in the league. He could've bridge dealt Marner and Matthews. He didnt have to hand Tavares $11 million a year after captaining the Islanders to the playoffs just 3 times in 10 years. He didnt have to roll over and give what Nylander asked for.
He handcuffed the Leafs 30 days onto the job by giving Tavares his contract. They're fucked for 4 more years. Any kind of deal they make they're going to lose cuz theyll have to sweeten it cuz they're underwater on these contracts. Without Covid the Leafs STILL have 3 guys making $11 million per that they're desperate to get rid of at least one of. Who is lining up to take and pay Marner after these playoffs? Even Tavares? Should he even be alive? The Leafs are completely fucked and its cuz they hired an inexperienced GM that had no business being where he was. Wake up.
It's not a one dimensional issue especially the way he handled the contract negotiations. Even the loyal fans of Marner are still bitter about that and I'm one of them. In this market it's not only about producing its about the effort you give wearing that jersey. It's not a surprise Gary Roberts, Darcy Tucker, Nazem Kadri we're admired
I think a Tavares trade makes more sense (however, more difficult to do). He is 7 years older than Marner and makes more.
No one wants garbage in their lineup
Tavares has a NMC he isn’t going anywhere
It's a good thing the fans aren't in charge of roster moves.
Take the time to assess what happened and what needs to happen to improve.
Knee jerk reactions never worked in the past and they don't work now.
Having said that, Leaf brass will make just enough changes to make Leaf Nation optimistic (again) in October.