I hope there is a book that comes out eventually of the Shanahan era from 2014 to 2022. It feels like Dubas screwed up this team by: - Overpaying Matthews, Nylander, and Matthews by at least five million. - Let the core three above pick their contract. - Over values his own players such as Engivall. - Picks Sparks as the backup. - Trades grit (marchment) for soft players like Maglin. - Boxed the team in by refusing to budge on trading one of the core. Dubas was a mistake. Should have kept Lou to deal with the three Core players. Hunter was the architect by drafting a lot of the good players. I will finish with this: The Leafs were an up-and-coming team in 2017. Young, speedy, skilled forwards with some grit. Look at us four years later. Dubas should be fired and will be next year if they don't win a round.
Dubas is literally the ANTI-"Moneyball". Instead of underpaying for undervalued assets, he overpays for established assets. This is literally the complete opposite of the vaunted 'Moneyball' concept. This is cash, superstars, and a top-heavy team.
That's not the point of moneyball. Oakland wouldn't pony up the cash to keep good players so management had to get creative. 100% of the time the team would rather all stars.
@Bryan Halstead Actually funny I saw this comment, today I searched up MLB in debate thinking they didnt have one, they do but teams that go over it get charged a luxury tax which comes back into the league. SO in a weird way the Yankees keep teams like the A's alive. Not completely, but a little bit. They just have so much money making it news would be laugh at.
High end talent isn't very mobile in the NHL you have to draft it yourself, and then sign it without blowing up your salary cap so you can add UFAs and pay more young players.
The Toronto phenomenon was simple... it became a 3 way Pride Problem. Nylander says I am as good as Marner. (That was his comparable) Marner says I am as good as Matthews (That is his comparable) Matthews was compared to who got signed prior... JT
Yeah the Toronto media talks up their players as if they’re all the next coming of Gretzky and then seem perplexed that the players in this market believe their market value is at an elite level. It’s literally at the stage where Nylander is costing more than Point due to this type of hyperbole ffs.
There right. The leafs players wanted the big money contracts. They got them. Now its time to win. You all wanted to be big celebs and spend millions. You have to WIN championships to be that person. Now, if you don't perform, they will blow up they team because they cant afford overpaid losers. There's no "we will continue to improve" when your up against the cap. They WILL blow it up if you suck. You set the stage, not the fans or management. If you cant get it done you will be nothing but HUGE greedy disappointments that put yourself before the team. You only have 2 options now. There's no middle ground. You got PAID and fucked the cap. You either win and become champions and legends to the city of Toronto, OR you blow it and become nothing but greedy disappointments we traded away and regret overpaying for years to come. I have all the faith in the world in the boys but man, buckle up. Matthews, Nylander, Marner and Tavares are in for one hell of a ride from fans and the media if they don't meet expectations. When you're on you ELC you're allowed to lose. Those days are over guys. You'll be Loved for winning or hated for greed. That's all there is now. Go Leafs Go
I like this point because it goes back to the excuse of “Toronto is a tough place to play because of the fans and the media” If they ask for so much money and fuck the cap by underperforming then how can you argue against saying they deserve to be scrutinized for being greedy in a rich market In the end of the day we need a soft cap I don’t care about these small markets
@@teashdrinks714 what does a rich market have to do with this? I honestly read your comment 5 times and I feel dumb lol if they were in a crappie market and didn't preform to what they were expected/paid to do, they shouldn't be harshly criticized?
leafs are under tremendous pressure to win a cup now. players are using that for leverage. leafs are all in for this year. i don't think they have what it takes to win it all with this roster, so this gamble by leaf management going to backfire, but won't matter later anyway, other than babcock being made the scapegoat, and losing his job.
But they made no changes to the team from the team that could not beat Boston except made their defense worse and they have no cap to fix it.... Unless some rookie defenseman turns out to be the next burns or Karlsson I think they are screwed
Luke Jaffray really? Burns or karlsson? And those guys have won how many cups?? And how has the leafs D possibly gotten worse? Clearly you don’t know anything about the leafs or you’re just a troll
Leo Wong except Dubai’s made the most cardinal of sins you can make as a gm, he promised Nylander that he wouldn’t be traded. And now everyone knows it
@@nomads9739 OK then they shouldn't have signed Nylander or Tavares OR drafted Matthews & Marner, they should've gotten rid of EVERY player that's there now Lol. How 'bout the Leafs just DISMANTLE the team and start over AGAIN and do ANOTHER rebuild, because that's all that Leaf fans ever have experienced the past half-century...rebuilding. NEVER winning.
@@ckendall67 part of building contenders is being able to afford everyone, including depth players to help you out. They paid Nylander, Matthews, and Marner fair market value and now do not have defensive and bottom 6 depth. There's a reason why teams like Carolina, Columbus, Boston, and St. Louis have had strong playoffs despite not having the same superstardom that Toronto has upfront. Tying up $11m into JT handicapped them with these signings. Unless they shed one of these contracts next year, they will not be able to re-sign Barrie who is on one of the best deals in the league. It's looking like this may be a one year window instead of 5+
@DeSTRoYeR992 I hope this isn't a double tap. There were some good trades out there for Nylander and he was horrible in the playoffs the year before. I really wanted them to dump him because I knew the other contracts would be trouble. Now we can just wait and hope. I''m concerned the League will suspend Matthews. If they decided to view his disorderly conduct as a sexual assault he could be sitting for months.
They do and they did take fairly team happy deals and to get them to do that is good on Dubas but because of the 3 around them at the top of the heap in 34/16/88 those are the 3 that are always going to get the hardest look and most scrutiny and they certainly did not do the team any favors in the deals they took
I too think he's overpaid. I see him as a 40-40 player which in my mind is worth around 9.5 per on a six year deal. Tavares is the only player they have right now that deserves his current contract. He's been in the league long enough and been consistent enough that we all know he's one of the best finishers in the league and a solid all around player.
Tavares is a 66 point guy since when? He's consistently been just under a pt/game since entering the league (0.94 pts/game) and averages 77.08 pts/game (82 games x 0.94 = average pts/season). Lol out of 10 seasons he's actually gotten over 66 pts 6 times, and the four times he didn't: - 1 year was his rookie year - 1 year was the lockout where he put up 47 pts in 48 games - His 66 pt year (which you claim is his average) was in in 59 games (LOL) - His other 66 pt year was in 77 games (still very good and well above your stat). So he's a 77 pt guy, right? Do your research man. You can't just throw numbers out there and make bold statements when they don't hold up. The fact is Tavares would have got 12+ on the open market and actually took a hometown discount to come to the Leafs. Yeah, they're still paying quite a bit but he's been a legit top 10 centre for most of his career and plays a great defensive game WHILE still being 77 pts/season, no, not 66. No one thinks he's Crosby and certainly not McDavid, but McDavid got 12 AND that's with a cut, and Crosby actually signed for a higher cap% at the time but the climate has changed since then. All of this can be simply explained if you decided to be open minded and not just regurgitate what the media tells you. Thanks, that's the end of my Ted Talk.
Where I legitimately think they fucked up was giving Matthews the money but also only 5 years. That contract will come back to bite them in the ass I think, but if they can win a cup within that time then none of this will matter and I think that's what they're banking on. Matthews should have got 11.5 but they should have got that with 7-8 years, not 5. Dubas basically handed him a blank check. That's also what made Marner hold out for what he thinks he's worth. Tavares is far from the problem considering he signed for 7 years also. Nylander if he has a great year will make his contract look really good imo and it will also be tradable. Marner is at least on 6 years but they didn't paid a lot to keep him happy. All in all they're clearly going all in and if they can win now then all of these opinions about them signing bad contracts become irrelevant.
@@WilliamStewart1 That just makes his point even more stupid. Matthews has 205 pts in 212 games which is 0.96 pts/game. Just don't understand why people have to exaggerate things to prove a point that is already a reach. Matthews has literally hit 69 pts in his rookie year, then 63 (in 62 games), then 73 in 68 last year and I can guarantee he'll probably be above a pt/game this year and probably for a while. Either way, dumb point to make. They weren't even making the playoffs before they signed Matthews. Use some critical thinking guys.
RyGuy 65 this is a Toronto based show lol. And they have the most fans in the league. Are you guys that dumb? I don't go to a Montreal based show and complain they talk too much about the Habs lol
The hip injury is an important aspect of Point's deal. He's missing a month anyway, it's going to be really hard to guarantee a smooth return. He was probably looking to sign before it potentially goes poorly. Also allowed lightning management to maybe lowball a little bit because of the uncertainty
My OCD kicked in. The trim along the bottom left hand side of the desk is broken and crooked. After I spotted that, I didn’t hear anything that was said. Damn my OCD!
if toronto wins the cup under babcock ill buy everybody who likes this a good quality bootleg matthews jersey (Capping it at 60 comment to secure a spot)
Marner wanted 3yrs like all these guys that are going to fleece their teams in 3yrs , Dubas got 6yrs , he paid alot but they can afford it and those 3 yrs are important to have locked up
If you watched Marner play this summer and the way he dominated... he was worth his money... Marner signed for longer terms... points contract in 3 years will put him at 9-11 million and marners will look like a steal! And I compare point to nylander a lot more than Marner... every year contracts get pushed... soon your going to see a 15m/y player
Two words...BRIDGE DEAL! What don't you people get? Pay more for stability or pay less for uncertainty. Take Boeser's contract. If he performs to his best projection, then he will be making way more than Nylander. If Nylander performs to his best projection, he'll be underpaid in comparison.
Uhm, no. He will be making 9 mil in the third year of this contract. Which means if he signs a new contract after that it will be at or above Marner's, assuming point plays up to his potential. The cap will be going up each year due to inflation and the new tv contract. Remember, the salary landscape will have changed by then (just like now it's much higher than before). Bridge deals ALWAYS cost less because you aren't buying free agent years. If Marner signed a bridge deal it would have been similar to Point's, but he didn't. The leafs know exactly how much he will be making whereas the bridge deals just move the heavy bargaining down the road. If the player ends up reaching their full potential then the team will pay more for that player than if they signed them longterm. That's the business. Fyi, Marner will be making 8 mil in years four, five and six. How much do you think Point will be making in those three years if he reaches his full potential? Marners cap hit is high now, but Point's will be much much higher because the contract he signs (assume it's 3 years) will not have these years on it...12-13 million cap hit. Marner's will remain the same 10.89.
Ash Moe CORRECT!!! If they reach their potential long term contracts are beneficial to the team and bridge contracts are beneficial to the players. And vice versa. Key notes with Boeser's contract is that the canucks are paying him 7.5 million in year three. If he doesn't reach his potential (but still a good and useful player) they will be paying too much and MUST offer him a 7.5 million contract (rfa qualifying offer) in year four or lose him outright. And if he isn't a top end player (but remember, still an "okay" player) they won't be able to trade him with that 7.5 million price tag, so he'll need to be released and any team can sign him without compensation.
Ash Moe it isn't a bad thing or a good thing, necessarily. It's just two different ways of doing things. Yet people are comparing them as if they were the same. Dollars to dollars without taking into consideration the length of term and what that will mean going forward. If Point were to have signed a long term deal it would have been at a LOT higher dollar amount, and similar to what Marner got. Same with Boeser...if he signed for 6 years he would have been around 7 million per like Nylander. The reason it "looks" like they signed favourable deals for their respective teams is because they are short term bridge deals. Edit. I believe (educated guess) the reason Tampa didn't sign Point long term is that they didn't have the cap space to do it at this time, but four years down the road they will. With the canucks, they don't want to lock themselves up without knowing where pettersson will be at in three years. They are still in rebuild mode and most all their contracts will be up by then (except Myers/Horvat) and Luongo's cap hit will be off the books. They are taking more of a wait and see approach, whereas the Leafs have locked up their top end core players that are either about to hit their prime or in it. Different approaches for different situations.
Because playing for the lunatics in Toronto comes at a premium. That fan base is a cesspool. That and trading for Tavares and giving him 11 million, Shanahan told his own home grown players they all needed to line up and take less money now that they had Tavares. That, I can't imagine went over to well.
Two major factors. First, Tavares signing a huge contract before any of these young guys. Why should JT make $3-4M more than Matthews or Marner? Secondly, after taxes are accounted for, Point only makes $1M less than Marner, with Marner being locked up for 3 extra years. When comparing these two contracts, how do you not discuss the huge issue that is the salary cap advantage state taxes cause. Toronto has about $10-15M less cap space than Tampa when taking taxes into account. Where is the league parity in that? The state tax argument is anything but "garbage".
The cap is parity on what the team can pay. It isn’t the NHL’s job to subsidize local and national governments. I agree that the tax issue is anything but “garbage” though. Basically saying “math is not a thing.”
Kai Wong true and one still must be culpable either way. These players also get paid in American dollars living in Canada with an amazing exchange rate amongst other things. Between Nylander, Matthews, and Marner he could have saved arguably between 3.5-5.5 millions dollars. That’s another solid depth defence man for instance. The training wheels are off. Time to play hardball like his peers in Colorado, Boston etc etc
@@adrianomasta7189 oh good someone else gets it.... Canada's weather sucks, their tax rate sucks and their markets are brutal on players.....who wants to play there?
The real reason is the Nylander deal, flat out should've just made the guy sit, mofo would've taken a bag of pucks the next season as payment. People see that he got overpaid and they know it's payday.
Holy cow. This just auto played which is why I’m commenting again :D but O said if the Lightning win 2 cups in 3 years and the Leafs don’t get out of the first round we have a serious problem here!
Points contract in Tampa is a bridge, and is void of taxes etc...its closer to what people think it might be to Marners situation. There is more going on there than people want to see.
A 73 point player in 68 games tho not 82 he is easily a 90 point possibly 100 on a good year player, good thing with Matthews he is the goalscorer aswell, imo you can have the same points but if someone gives me 50 goals and 40 assists i would take that over 25 goals 65 assists anyday of the week. Matthews will rack up richard trophies in a few years after Ovie, i have more faith in him keeping going over Laine in terms of the future. But yes he should have taken less for the team or give the full 8 years it is only way i think it would be a good deal
Daniel Clapp. Who are you referring to as scoring 65 assists and 25 goals? All the leaf players are over rated and over paid. Point outperformed all of them. He is also a better defensive forward. Matthews was a -9 last year. Matthews better than Point, maybe, maybe not. But he isn’t 5 million better. Point had 41 goals last year by the way.
When the leafs handed Matthews a blank check they lost their cap. He shouldn't have gotten anything over $10-10.5 mill/yr. And then the ripple effect came
luap b Matthews didn’t deserve that 11.634 million contract. Way overpaid. He didn’t deserve a cent over 9-9.5 million since Matthews isn’t even top 5 in NHL or hasn’t won anything. He couldn’t even get the Leafs passed round 1 playoffs. Win first then get paid NOT other way around
Dont these guys all want 3-5 years so they can get that big contract before they hit their prime? Dont they take less so they get less term? Have i not heard these exact guys mention marner wanted the same term as Matthews? For the past few months ive never heard anyone say these guys all wanted 8 years... these tsn guys are the worst.. They are all in.. theres no doubt. If it doesn't work out in a year or two.. these contracts are GOLD to trade!
@@dallasmr73 so after i correct the spell check error you will give a more insightful response to why the leafs are in cap hell? According to these analysts we were already in cap hell when they signed the nylander contract. And what are we going to do with marleau? We quickly forget how the front office has made magic happen with the cap, and if it does not work out, Any fool will take any of these players at an amazing price seeing ALOT of (their) contract will already be paid out. Yes or no?
@@teamrogers1047 so any team that trades for say, marner in 2 years.. they pay him 10.8-11mill? Maybe im wrong. But if the leafs pay his bonus out at the beginning of the year does the team only have to pay the base salary of what? 700k? The team takes the cap hit. Not the total amount of the salary. The leafs more than likely wont have to take on anything with a deal like that especially after they pay the bonus thats due each july 1st. Look, im not exactly thrilled with the leafs cap situation. But im really hoping the cap goes up, at least 5 mill. Ive already seen dubas work some crazy magic with the cap.
Nylander is a part of it but only a part. This all started with paying Tavares over 10mill a year. Tavares as great as he is, he never was a 100 point guy. Paying a point per game player from another team over 10mill a year really effected the Matthews and Marner deals since they are drafted homegrown "cornerstone players". Are they going to take under 10? Fuck no how can you even negotiate that with that Tavares deal. Also Lightning and Bruins can underpay for shorter contracts because they can say "For 3 years take lower money and we will try to win a cup. We can do it" They don't have ridiculous contracts and they can say take 7 mill or walk. As bad as it is, Bruins can survive without Mcavoy and Lightning can survive without Point. Leafs are so top heavy they really need Marner. Win a cup or go to another franchise. Leafs don't have leverage because they haven't won a series in a long time.
Tavares was an proven elite UFA center. He could have made more money elsewhere. Every team in the NHL that had the cap space is picking him up for $11m without giving up noone on their rosters. The Tavares deal has little to nothing to do with the contract negotiations of the Leafs 3 RFAs. UFA vs RFA, big difference..
@@K20EF8 Yes he would have gotten more money elsewhere but thats the price the Leafs paid. UFA and RFA of course are different but the psychology is the same. Marner's and Matthew's agents use that. "our client gives same production and is the future of the franchise so we wont take less than 10 because you gave Tavares 10"
It's also important to note that Point's 3rd year has a base of 9.0m. His next deal has to be above 9.0 and will probably be close if not more than Marner. In 3 years when all these bridge deals are up the Leafs deals will look pretty fair.
Its not a level playing field, in florida they dont pay state tax, in canada they have to pay a shit load in tax, I dont see how that is fair to the GMs, teams, or players playing under a salary cap. They should at least adjust the cap based on how much a player actually walks away with not how much you have to pay the player, province, state, country etc.
Yeah you're right it's should be in the Leafs favour number one it's the biggest hockey Market ever the amount of money you can make on endorsement deals Rivals mcdavid's contract plus you don't have to pay all that yucky escrow number to their paid in USD living in Canada so their dollar goes further
Brandon Botham he said it in this video. These players get paid in America, living in Canada. The American dollar is worth more than Canadian dollar so the state tax thing isn’t even valid
However the problem is the Leafs and the media don't acknowledge this also another win for the Leafs is they can pay almost all of your contract up front which players like
Cause they all saw Demar Derozan get traded away when he was loyal and the players agents were like... See what loyalty gets you? Go for the money!!!! Fuck whatever other ppl say. This is the TRUTH!!
@Kai Wong your uninformed, or weak minded, or just plain ignorant. Kadri didn't cost the Leafs 2 playoff series. 1) Its a team game. 2)those games the refs were the wannabe stars on ice. 3)year 1... Marchand lick face 4)year 2... DeBrusk elbow gate. 5)Kadri has more grit and sand paper than 99% of the Leafs combined. 6) final point... How is Colorado doing this year?
@@jonz8482 You hope the Leafs NEVER win anything for the remainder of the existence, we get it. As long as the Leafs keep losing EVERY year, everyone will be happy, right??
@Kai Wong where have you been ? Do you really think that the players pay for their apartments,no,no it's the leafs,and do you think they pay more for food than normal working people,no,no,and when on the road ,do you think they pay for travelling and rooms and meals,no,no
The media and fan base create this environment. Having 100s of writers, and analysts looking for their spin on a single narrative brought in the percentage of cap instead of comparables. We had media talking about Matthews being able to demand over 15 million. The people that live off the Leafs and their fan base, ruin the team. They care more about their careers and next story than the team winning.
Funny thing is Point would need to sign for 13 million to even get even with Marner lmao. If Point signed for 13 million over 3 years in his next contract he would have still earnt less than Marner over these 6 years and we all know Tampa do not get bent over the table over contracts so Point will not even get 12 million so Point is on a much better contracts
I have said it from the beginning. The Leafs overpaid Nylander & then gave a ridiculous deal to Matthews, before he earned the right to get the deal at all. The Leafs should have known that Marner would expect to get the same amount as Matthews. Somehow they seemed surprised when Marner demanded the same. No matter if the Leafs win or not, Dubas really showed that he is a rookie GM.
Tavares had at least led a mediocre team to a playoff series win up to that point. I don't think him, nor his contract has been an issue to this point. Ask me in 2-3 years and I might say ok now we have a problem. But right now, and for the duration of this "young" core, it's not. The problem here is they payed up front to players who are amazing and have insane talent - but haven't accomplished anything from a team, an organization perspective. There's only 1 group of players I think you pay up front - goaltenders. They should be getting cheaper as they age because that spot does work to your body. You can't have your cap space going to players who will never live up to their contracts later on. Price right now is an anomaly, take a look at all the previous high paid goalie contracts and see that it's not a recipe for success. Quite ironically, you should never pay the young RFAs the bank they want - do the bridge deals and make them develop into proven, consistent stars who make their money and earn the long term contract. Leafs didn't here and 2 years later we're now doing the "oh shit" dance.
Leafs core players have screwed the team. There’s no money to acquire the necessary depth to win in the playoffs now and it’s on the core players being greedy and not leaving anything on the table, even though all of their peers sign and continue to sign for reasonable deals.
Considering the Leafs (#3 seed) were up 3-2 in the finals vs Boston (#2 seed). Sure they lost in 7, but Boston won the east and went all the way to game 7 of the cup final. So I would say they really weren't far off from being championship caliber. That being said you aren't wrong about them not passing the first round in a long time. But to say they have no chance of winning the cup with their current roster, I would say you must have them confused with the Florida Panthers. Stick to basketball black mamba.
Ontario income tax is crazy compared to that of Massachusetts, Florida, and Carolina. If they took a team friendly deal in Ontario they would be making millions less than guys in those other markets. Salary cap doesn't take into consideration income tax and how much of that a players loses so they must be paid higher in Toronto to compensate.. Can it get any less simple..?
Dubas is a good guy and very smart, Much like Trudeau in a way where you want to like them for their character and youth. You need more than that to be a successful NHL GM, He will learn quickly how valuable the experience is, I still trust him but in the future he does need more ruthless
Why Leafs did not get friendly signed deals: Because the Leafs don't want or need a Stanley Cup. It' s because they really really really really really want and need a Stanley Cup.
@Ash Moe I'm talking take home money here. So Marner is roughly 65 million for 6 years Point is 20 million for 3 years. A contract in Florida , I'm not a tax expert but I've been told, is like signing for 20% more. So to compare apples to apples Point signed for 24 million. Since his 3rd year is at 9 million he has to be offered at least 9 million in year 4. Really though if his performance stays the same and the cap goes up he will get awarded or signed to a contract that pays at least 10, 12 and say 12 in year 4, 5 and 6. That's 34 million plus the 20%, 6.8 million. So he is pretty well assured 64.8 million over the 6 years. 24 + 40.8. The leafs given their cap problem over the next 3 years opted for cost certainty while Tampa needed cap flexibility. Two teams with 2 different needs. Really rough numbers but I believe the contracts are similar. Kucherov take home is like he signed for 11.4 million.
@@peterspence4268 Yes and the other day one of these shows said stop with the tax talk the Leafs get there money in US dollar so it is not much atall they aint gonna pay there tax in US are they so i think it was this show that said it stop with the taxes stuff. It is minimal at best and then lets not forget the other moeny these leafs will get being in Toronto. Matthews Tavares and Marner probably will make about a quarter plus of there yearly salary i bet in advertisement maybe even more.
The tax rate in Tampa is 39% in Ontario is 53% on a $ 9.5 millions . That means we need about $12.5 millions in Ontario compare to $10 millions in Tampa. That’s the biggest problem
lmfao bruh we got term out of our players... these are 3 years. Come back in 3 years when Point is making $13M a year and marner is still making $10.89M
Auston Matthews ahh a great Point made. There’s also the fact that Florida tax is virtually nonexistent but these guys are still being overly dramatic.
I think you're wrong a zero state tax like Florida has to be an advantage. Money up front is Torontos way of creating a competitive advantage and also making these contracts perhaps (Big If) tradeable if the time comes where they have to off load them. In hindsight with Matthew's and Marner coming to the "trough" to feed they should have called Nylanders bluff. Even if that summer they gave him what he wanted it would have been a nice visual optic for Dubas. Again in hindsight Nylander played so poorly once he got here it mattered little if he had sat.
When will you guys realize you have to pay more BECAUSE you're the leafs and there is so much added pressure on everyone that plays there. There is no "hometown discount" its hazard pay
Yeah but the amount of money that you make in endorsements playing for Toronto can rival even mcdavid's contract without all that pesky escrow stuff also they get paid in USD while living in Canada so there dollar goes further this is just a pure case of inexperience GM and greedy players
But the Leafs sucked for 10 years and still the arena was full, people bought merch and were rabid fans nonetheless. I wouldn't call that a "pressure" town.
Kappy? Johnsson? Barries cap hit? Dubas is loading top heavy, similar to how the pens, and caps did their business. Too heavy, strong scouting to fill the holes. Stop the bs story line... THE JETS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD HELLOOOO
Manifested Logic kapenen and johnsson could score 10 goals next year. They really ain’t top 6 forwards. Dubas got bent over by Matthews, marner, nylander camps
@@poopcrust3400 Kapanen and Johnsson could score 30 goals this year. They really are top 6 forwards. Nylander could get 70~80 pts. That 7M is gonna look like a bargain compared to the Kevin Hayes, Keller contracts.
These RFAs did not give their teams "Team Friendly" deals. All they did was set themselves up for a big payday down the road. All of these deals are structured to take a gigantic leap in the final year. In Point's case this means that the team either has to offer him a 9M dollar QO, or take him to arbitration. Also he has the right to take THEM to arbitration where he would get a 1 year deal and then be able to walk as a UFA. Not saying that he would walk, but he'd have that option. If Hayes thinks he won't be making more than Kucherov in year 4, he's insane.
If Tampa has to cut him loose then they will. The fact is they have him the next 3 years for peanuts. William Nylander has a higher cap hit than Brayden Point, let that sink in. Those RFAs had no choice but to take "team friendly" deals but in Toronto the RFAs dictated things. When you look that the likes of Tampa or Bostons cap structure, Torontos is pathetic. Our 3 RFAs took everything they could, they got the $$$ at a lower term and a ton of upfront money. Im a big Leaf fan but if they cant make it past the first round again, I hope heads will roll here.
@Ash Moe He's probably gonna make between 12 and 13 million per season. Remember the cap is gonna jump in 2022 when the NHL renegotiates its TV deal. All of these RFAs did the smart thing, they know the cap is gonna take a huge leap the year their contract expires. Also Tampa won't be able to trade him if he just takes them to arbitration as will be his right.
Point will have for sure established himself as best center on the team by then i feel he is now but he will take probably 10 million -11 million if cap goes up just do the percent of cap 10-11 mill would be and that will be fine, If Point signed a 8 year deal Tampa would have had Point for 11 years at 100-110 million Marner will probably getting way more money again so i am taking Point situation all day. Or do it this way if Point signed a 3 year deal again he would have to take like 13 million to each year to get close to Marner so i highly doubt that would happen and if the cap goes up would probably have to take like 15-`16 million, so Point is on a super deal. Marner not so much. Marner will never get 40 goals he is a good setup man but i am taking the C who can score 40 and get the same points as like a 25 goalscorer
in toronto there's more pressure because of the fans, in canada the taxes are higher and the players know if they wait they will get what they want. babcock doesn't help either, you get him players by trade and he doesn't use them.
The Leafs know what the cap is but deep down they don't think it applies to them because they're the Leafs, God's gift to the universe of sports. How else can you explain the absurdity of signing Tavares?
Goalie Dad 33 he was talking about the first round since he was talking about advancing further. Sure, eventually it gets to the point where you hope your team stays healthy and the only way is to hurt the other team. Also what's with the tennis comment? I don't even like tennis
Eichel signed for 8 years at 10m with very little of it in signing bonuses. That is a fair contract for an elite young #1 center. Panarin was a UFA who has put up a point per game in his career..
Yeah, Eichel also left $ on the table for sabres when he signed. 10 mil over 8 years for a #1 center who is the face of the franchise is more than fair.
![[TH] RNT vs SPG - VCT Ascension Pacific - Day 1](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RUTkf8Detj8/mqdefault.jpg)
“Columbus isn’t winning anything this year!”
Except a play-in series against yours truly, the Toronto maple leafs
Andrada Music thank you sir!
It's pretty sad. As a Leaf fan you just get use to getting kicked in the junk like this.
even worse, they got knocked out by a team that got destroyed the next round lol
Burn
Lol I’m the 67th like, familiar number but can’t remember from where
2:56 "[in three years] if Tampa wins two cups and The Leafs don't get out of the first round, we have a serious problem here." Well said, O-Dog.
The crazy part it might become a prophecy...
We have a serious problem regardless what tampa does from here on out.
@@Granitetron It will be even more fun next off season when Campbell's and Reilly's contracts runs out...
I hope there is a book that comes out eventually of the Shanahan era from 2014 to 2022. It feels like Dubas screwed up this team by:
- Overpaying Matthews, Nylander, and Matthews by at least five million.
- Let the core three above pick their contract.
- Over values his own players such as Engivall.
- Picks Sparks as the backup.
- Trades grit (marchment) for soft players like Maglin.
- Boxed the team in by refusing to budge on trading one of the core.
Dubas was a mistake. Should have kept Lou to deal with the three Core players. Hunter was the architect by drafting a lot of the good players.
I will finish with this: The Leafs were an up-and-coming team in 2017. Young, speedy, skilled forwards with some grit. Look at us four years later. Dubas should be fired and will be next year if they don't win a round.
@@murray1978 Well, not disagreeing with that. Just in agreement that Dubas was a mistake. Should had kept Lou, he was a proven winner.
“If Tampa wins two cups and Leafs can’t get out of the first round…”. Here we are, less than two years later, and it’s coming true.
It’s sad but true and to add insult to injury the lightning could win a third before the leafs get past the first round
@@wingsfan3124 they’re in tough now vs New York but it actually could still happen.
Jeff O'Neill really just manifested the Point/Bolts and Marner/Leafs situation wow
Even more true now
Dubas is literally the ANTI-"Moneyball". Instead of underpaying for undervalued assets, he overpays for established assets. This is literally the complete opposite of the vaunted 'Moneyball' concept. This is cash, superstars, and a top-heavy team.
That's not the point of moneyball. Oakland wouldn't pony up the cash to keep good players so management had to get creative. 100% of the time the team would rather all stars.
Being capped out on replaceable players if when you get into trouble. Leafs are paying their stars.
@Bryan Halstead Actually funny I saw this comment, today I searched up MLB in debate thinking they didnt have one, they do but teams that go over it get charged a luxury tax which comes back into the league. SO in a weird way the Yankees keep teams like the A's alive. Not completely, but a little bit. They just have so much money making it news would be laugh at.
@@DaraLazy Yeah, but they're paying them too much. That's the point here.
High end talent isn't very mobile in the NHL you have to draft it yourself, and then sign it without blowing up your salary cap so you can add UFAs and pay more young players.
This aged...extremely well. Well, not if you're the Leafs. But the take aged well.
The Toronto phenomenon was simple... it became a 3 way Pride Problem.
Nylander says I am as good as Marner. (That was his comparable)
Marner says I am as good as Matthews (That is his comparable)
Matthews was compared to who got signed prior... JT
Exactly 100% everyone of those 3 knew they were getting more when JT signed for 11
Because it’s toronto
Yeah the Toronto media talks up their players as if they’re all the next coming of Gretzky and then seem perplexed that the players in this market believe their market value is at an elite level. It’s literally at the stage where Nylander is costing more than Point due to this type of hyperbole ffs.
@Jagermaister they weren't gonna take less.
@@barstar888 lol I love looking back kn these types of comments cause they are soooooo wrong 😂
@@euginate1344 you have to believe that to sleep at night.
It’s because the Nylander contract showed these player agents what kind of idiot they’d be negotiating with
Ace The idiot named Dubas
Nylanders contract is fair, thats not the issue here.
Nifty Willy lol fair good one
@@joshhainer9463 Toews would like a word
buddy toronto has been forced to overpay guys for far, far longer than you seem to think lol
There right. The leafs players wanted the big money contracts. They got them. Now its time to win. You all wanted to be big celebs and spend millions. You have to WIN championships to be that person. Now, if you don't perform, they will blow up they team because they cant afford overpaid losers. There's no "we will continue to improve" when your up against the cap. They WILL blow it up if you suck. You set the stage, not the fans or management. If you cant get it done you will be nothing but HUGE greedy disappointments that put yourself before the team. You only have 2 options now. There's no middle ground. You got PAID and fucked the cap. You either win and become champions and legends to the city of Toronto, OR you blow it and become nothing but greedy disappointments we traded away and regret overpaying for years to come.
I have all the faith in the world in the boys but man, buckle up. Matthews, Nylander, Marner and Tavares are in for one hell of a ride from fans and the media if they don't meet expectations. When you're on you ELC you're allowed to lose. Those days are over guys. You'll be Loved for winning or hated for greed. That's all there is now. Go Leafs Go
I like this point because it goes back to the excuse of “Toronto is a tough place to play because of the fans and the media”
If they ask for so much money and fuck the cap by underperforming then how can you argue against saying they deserve to be scrutinized for being greedy in a rich market
In the end of the day we need a soft cap I don’t care about these small markets
Haha, nice one Robert. If I was babs I'd read them this comment on October 2nd.
@@teashdrinks714 what does a rich market have to do with this? I honestly read your comment 5 times and I feel dumb lol if they were in a crappie market and didn't preform to what they were expected/paid to do, they shouldn't be harshly criticized?
@@teashdrinks714 So you only want the big city teams to be allowed to spend money and the small market teams to just f--- off then, is that it??
Well put from a habs fan I feel bad for Toronto and I was born there grew up with them...
leafs are under tremendous pressure to win a cup now. players are using that for leverage. leafs are all in for this year. i don't think they have what it takes to win it all with this roster, so this gamble by leaf management going to backfire, but won't matter later anyway, other than babcock being made the scapegoat, and losing his job.
But they made no changes to the team from the team that could not beat Boston except made their defense worse and they have no cap to fix it.... Unless some rookie defenseman turns out to be the next burns or Karlsson I think they are screwed
They have 5/6 years now to figure it out with their core. Time to develop some more D and let the kids grow. These commentators are a joke.
Luke Jaffray really? Burns or karlsson? And those guys have won how many cups?? And how has the leafs D possibly gotten worse? Clearly you don’t know anything about the leafs or you’re just a troll
@@dothechickenshavelargetalons69 | michaels right...their defense is worse and Babcock blows. You'll see.
too bad habs are going to win it all this year
The Leafs should have traded Nylander last year. When they failed to do so the Leafs were stuck overpaying everyone else.
pulzod they should have not signed Tavares tbh
Leo Wong except Dubai’s made the most cardinal of sins you can make as a gm, he promised Nylander that he wouldn’t be traded. And now everyone knows it
@@nomads9739 OK then they shouldn't have signed Nylander or Tavares OR drafted Matthews & Marner, they should've gotten rid of EVERY player that's there now Lol. How 'bout the Leafs just DISMANTLE the team and start over AGAIN and do ANOTHER rebuild, because that's all that Leaf fans ever have experienced the past half-century...rebuilding. NEVER winning.
@@ckendall67 part of building contenders is being able to afford everyone, including depth players to help you out. They paid Nylander, Matthews, and Marner fair market value and now do not have defensive and bottom 6 depth. There's a reason why teams like Carolina, Columbus, Boston, and St. Louis have had strong playoffs despite not having the same superstardom that Toronto has upfront. Tying up $11m into JT handicapped them with these signings. Unless they shed one of these contracts next year, they will not be able to re-sign Barrie who is on one of the best deals in the league. It's looking like this may be a one year window instead of 5+
@DeSTRoYeR992 I hope this isn't a double tap. There were some good trades out there for Nylander and he was horrible in the playoffs the year before. I really wanted them to dump him because I knew the other contracts would be trouble. Now we can just wait and hope. I''m concerned the League will suspend Matthews. If they decided to view his disorderly conduct as a sexual assault he could be sitting for months.
ODog Called it Leafs cant get out of the first round and Brayden Point has 2 cups
And Jonas picked Marner over Point for "game breaking ability" what a F'n joke guys like that are. O-dog has always been right
Tampa won 2 Cups and the Leafs couldn't get out of the First Round. ✌🏽️😎🏆🏆🏒⚡️⚡️
Do Kapanen and Johnsson not exist?
Who? Are they Marner?
They do and they did take fairly team happy deals and to get them to do that is good on Dubas but because of the 3 around them at the top of the heap in 34/16/88 those are the 3 that are always going to get the hardest look and most scrutiny and they certainly did not do the team any favors in the deals they took
Bhaw1 top rfa’s
@@SlapHappyGreen if you honestly think 88 has a bad contract then I can't take any of your opinions seriously.
Bhaw1
Who the fuck are they???
Actual line mates???? And depth???
How can you say “only team” when Thachuck, Laine, and Conner aren’t signed at all?
Derek Walter I’m a Jets fan and that’s exactly what I’m saying
Did they overpay those guys, or are they willing to let them sit?
Derek Walter
Well if they get 10 million than... well...... idk tried defending Toronto...
Exactly... They haven't signed so they are the only team so far...
Jessie yeah you’re probably right
Because they gave a 66point guy 11+ million and treated him like crosby mcdavid
I too think he's overpaid. I see him as a 40-40 player which in my mind is worth around 9.5 per on a six year deal. Tavares is the only player they have right now that deserves his current contract. He's been in the league long enough and been consistent enough that we all know he's one of the best finishers in the league and a solid all around player.
Tavares is a 66 point guy since when? He's consistently been just under a pt/game since entering the league (0.94 pts/game) and averages 77.08 pts/game (82 games x 0.94 = average pts/season). Lol out of 10 seasons he's actually gotten over 66 pts 6 times, and the four times he didn't:
- 1 year was his rookie year
- 1 year was the lockout where he put up 47 pts in 48 games
- His 66 pt year (which you claim is his average) was in in 59 games (LOL)
- His other 66 pt year was in 77 games (still very good and well above your stat).
So he's a 77 pt guy, right? Do your research man. You can't just throw numbers out there and make bold statements when they don't hold up.
The fact is Tavares would have got 12+ on the open market and actually took a hometown discount to come to the Leafs. Yeah, they're still paying quite a bit but he's been a legit top 10 centre for most of his career and plays a great defensive game WHILE still being 77 pts/season, no, not 66. No one thinks he's Crosby and certainly not McDavid, but McDavid got 12 AND that's with a cut, and Crosby actually signed for a higher cap% at the time but the climate has changed since then. All of this can be simply explained if you decided to be open minded and not just regurgitate what the media tells you.
Thanks, that's the end of my Ted Talk.
Where I legitimately think they fucked up was giving Matthews the money but also only 5 years. That contract will come back to bite them in the ass I think, but if they can win a cup within that time then none of this will matter and I think that's what they're banking on. Matthews should have got 11.5 but they should have got that with 7-8 years, not 5. Dubas basically handed him a blank check. That's also what made Marner hold out for what he thinks he's worth.
Tavares is far from the problem considering he signed for 7 years also. Nylander if he has a great year will make his contract look really good imo and it will also be tradable. Marner is at least on 6 years but they didn't paid a lot to keep him happy. All in all they're clearly going all in and if they can win now then all of these opinions about them signing bad contracts become irrelevant.
@@paulywantacoustic He's talking about Matthew's, not Tavares
@@WilliamStewart1 That just makes his point even more stupid. Matthews has 205 pts in 212 games which is 0.96 pts/game. Just don't understand why people have to exaggerate things to prove a point that is already a reach.
Matthews has literally hit 69 pts in his rookie year, then 63 (in 62 games), then 73 in 68 last year and I can guarantee he'll probably be above a pt/game this year and probably for a while.
Either way, dumb point to make. They weren't even making the playoffs before they signed Matthews. Use some critical thinking guys.
Great cut to Brock B, excellent editing TSN
These 3 always have great conversation. 👍❤️
Tomorrow on TSN: why is Toronto the only team in the NHL
RyGuy 65 We are all sick of it
I used to live that they only covered toronto...now I'd give anything for a story on anyone else please
It's a local radio show about the Leafs. What did you expect?
Lol
RyGuy 65 this is a Toronto based show lol. And they have the most fans in the league. Are you guys that dumb? I don't go to a Montreal based show and complain they talk too much about the Habs lol
…. Tampa about to win two cups and leafs can’t get out of first round 😬
@8:16 - 8:41 (25 seconds) 😂
Now that picture of Brock Boeser is implanted in my head. Thanks guys 😂
Can somebody fix that strip that’s hanging down on the left side, under the table?
The hip injury is an important aspect of Point's deal. He's missing a month anyway, it's going to be really hard to guarantee a smooth return. He was probably looking to sign before it potentially goes poorly. Also allowed lightning management to maybe lowball a little bit because of the uncertainty
My OCD kicked in. The trim along the bottom left hand side of the desk is broken and crooked. After I spotted that, I didn’t hear anything that was said. Damn my OCD!
Annnnnnnnnd now I can't see anything but that bloody broken trim...
Who’s watching this in summer 2021🤣🤣
if toronto wins the cup under babcock ill buy everybody who likes this a good quality bootleg matthews jersey
(Capping it at 60 comment to secure a spot)
Bee Movie I'll remember this
@@Midiriii also come back to it when babcock is fired in 40 games
@@NiceBoyAdam What are you going to get us if he is fired in 40 games?
@@TheNightmareFish nothing I just wanna be reminded of me accuracy
@@NiceBoyAdam Pfft... I'll see you in June
Because players know the pockets are deep and the GM is green.
Not only is he green but he is in far over his head.
It means TB and Bos will be more complete and competitive for at least 3 years.
watching this in june of 2021 hurts alot haha
And NOW IN JANUARY 2024, still haven’t won anything and are flirting with not making the playoffs !!!…
Anyone ever pop back to this when the Leafs fail?
Dubas should not have caved on Nylander.
dubas shouldnt have caved on marner
Marner wanted 3yrs like all these guys that are going to fleece their teams in 3yrs , Dubas got 6yrs , he paid alot but they can afford it and those 3 yrs are important to have locked up
He goes down like a cheap hooker.
If you watched Marner play this summer and the way he dominated... he was worth his money... Marner signed for longer terms... points contract in 3 years will put him at 9-11 million and marners will look like a steal! And I compare point to nylander a lot more than Marner... every year contracts get pushed... soon your going to see a 15m/y player
@@cjmllvv Dude Marner earned is contract. 90 points last season and only getting better.
"If Tampa wins two Cups in three years and Toronto can't make it out of the first round..."
Keep going, I'm almost there!
Overpaid Toronto vs underpaid Boston
Two words...BRIDGE DEAL! What don't you people get? Pay more for stability or pay less for uncertainty. Take Boeser's contract. If he performs to his best projection, then he will be making way more than Nylander. If Nylander performs to his best projection, he'll be underpaid in comparison.
Stu Pidas Do the math. Point would need 15 mil per year last 3 to average 11 per over 6 like Marner.
Uhm, no. He will be making 9 mil in the third year of this contract. Which means if he signs a new contract after that it will be at or above Marner's, assuming point plays up to his potential. The cap will be going up each year due to inflation and the new tv contract. Remember, the salary landscape will have changed by then (just like now it's much higher than before). Bridge deals ALWAYS cost less because you aren't buying free agent years. If Marner signed a bridge deal it would have been similar to Point's, but he didn't. The leafs know exactly how much he will be making whereas the bridge deals just move the heavy bargaining down the road. If the player ends up reaching their full potential then the team will pay more for that player than if they signed them longterm. That's the business. Fyi, Marner will be making 8 mil in years four, five and six. How much do you think Point will be making in those three years if he reaches his full potential? Marners cap hit is high now, but Point's will be much much higher because the contract he signs (assume it's 3 years) will not have these years on it...12-13 million cap hit. Marner's will remain the same 10.89.
Ash Moe CORRECT!!! If they reach their potential long term contracts are beneficial to the team and bridge contracts are beneficial to the players. And vice versa. Key notes with Boeser's contract is that the canucks are paying him 7.5 million in year three. If he doesn't reach his potential (but still a good and useful player) they will be paying too much and MUST offer him a 7.5 million contract (rfa qualifying offer) in year four or lose him outright. And if he isn't a top end player (but remember, still an "okay" player) they won't be able to trade him with that 7.5 million price tag, so he'll need to be released and any team can sign him without compensation.
Ash Moe it isn't a bad thing or a good thing, necessarily. It's just two different ways of doing things. Yet people are comparing them as if they were the same. Dollars to dollars without taking into consideration the length of term and what that will mean going forward. If Point were to have signed a long term deal it would have been at a LOT higher dollar amount, and similar to what Marner got. Same with Boeser...if he signed for 6 years he would have been around 7 million per like Nylander. The reason it "looks" like they signed favourable deals for their respective teams is because they are short term bridge deals. Edit. I believe (educated guess) the reason Tampa didn't sign Point long term is that they didn't have the cap space to do it at this time, but four years down the road they will. With the canucks, they don't want to lock themselves up without knowing where pettersson will be at in three years. They are still in rebuild mode and most all their contracts will be up by then (except Myers/Horvat) and Luongo's cap hit will be off the books. They are taking more of a wait and see approach, whereas the Leafs have locked up their top end core players that are either about to hit their prime or in it. Different approaches for different situations.
“If they fizzle out this year... if it doesn’t work” yeahhh about thay
Retrospectively, these contracts really dug torontos grave
Yeah... Cause the Jets RFAs are really sounding team friendly.
So they will sit
@Pistol Pete Calling me a dumb ass yet you missed the sarcasm. Typical.
Because playing for the lunatics in Toronto comes at a premium. That fan base is a cesspool. That and trading for Tavares and giving him 11 million, Shanahan told his own home grown players they all needed to line up and take less money now that they had Tavares. That, I can't imagine went over to well.
Should have let Nylander sit, you had enough of a team without him last season. Dubas should have seen that.
Dubas doesn't have the balls...
@Ash Moe just let him sit and set the tone for the other negotiations.
@@kelliemoon2796 that's what it looks like
Two major factors.
First, Tavares signing a huge contract before any of these young guys. Why should JT make $3-4M more than Matthews or Marner?
Secondly, after taxes are accounted for, Point only makes $1M less than Marner, with Marner being locked up for 3 extra years. When comparing these two contracts, how do you not discuss the huge issue that is the salary cap advantage state taxes cause. Toronto has about $10-15M less cap space than Tampa when taking taxes into account. Where is the league parity in that? The state tax argument is anything but "garbage".
The cap is parity on what the team can pay. It isn’t the NHL’s job to subsidize local and national governments. I agree that the tax issue is anything but “garbage” though. Basically saying “math is not a thing.”
Dubas needs to poach whomever negotiates Tampa’s contracts ‘cause he’s getting taken to the cleaners on most of these signings.
Crash Test Hockey helps they live in a no tax state while Toronto’s is about 50%
Kai Wong true and one still must be culpable either way. These players also get paid in American dollars living in Canada with an amazing exchange rate amongst other things. Between Nylander, Matthews, and Marner he could have saved arguably between 3.5-5.5 millions dollars. That’s another solid depth defence man for instance. The training wheels are off. Time to play hardball like his peers in Colorado, Boston etc etc
@@adrianomasta7189 oh good someone else gets it....
Canada's weather sucks, their tax rate sucks and their markets are brutal on players.....who wants to play there?
I come here to make myself smile sometimes
Waiting for O’Neill to find a way to bash the Hurricanes in a random rant
Kyle Dubas is the greatest GM since Sam Pollock. He will single handedly change The way every GM in hockey does business
I disagree I have never really liked dubas.
Are you being sarcastic?
The real reason is the Nylander deal, flat out should've just made the guy sit, mofo would've taken a bag of pucks the next season as payment. People see that he got overpaid and they know it's payday.
Only idiots think Nylander is overpaid.
Holy cow. This just auto played which is why I’m commenting again :D but O said if the Lightning win 2 cups in 3 years and the Leafs don’t get out of the first round we have a serious problem here!
Points contract in Tampa is a bridge, and is void of taxes etc...its closer to what people think it might be to Marners situation. There is more going on there than people want to see.
U guys shouldn't forget that point could have sign an offer sheet and have the lightning match it, but no he said no to the montreal offer sheet
Teenager GM gave 11.6 mill to a career high 73 point Matthews should stop playing EA sports NHL 19!! GOlf leafs GOlf!!
That is just Funny! nice job
Matthews was greedy as hell like all the Young Leafs should took Tavares money or give the 8 year term
A 73 point player in 68 games tho not 82 he is easily a 90 point possibly 100 on a good year player, good thing with Matthews he is the goalscorer aswell, imo you can have the same points but if someone gives me 50 goals and 40 assists i would take that over 25 goals 65 assists anyday of the week. Matthews will rack up richard trophies in a few years after Ovie, i have more faith in him keeping going over Laine in terms of the future. But yes he should have taken less for the team or give the full 8 years it is only way i think it would be a good deal
Daniel Clapp. Who are you referring to as scoring 65 assists and 25 goals? All the leaf players are over rated and over paid. Point outperformed all of them. He is also a better defensive forward. Matthews was a -9 last year. Matthews better than Point, maybe, maybe not. But he isn’t 5 million better. Point had 41 goals last year by the way.
EVEN THEN i tried to sign Marner in nhl 19, had a similar season and i got him for 9.5m per year
Dubas is on crack XD
The Leafs have two years to win with a shaky defense. Good luck with that. Ask Chicago how paying top 4 players 50% of the cap is going for them.
When the leafs handed Matthews a blank check they lost their cap. He shouldn't have gotten anything over $10-10.5 mill/yr. And then the ripple effect came
luap b Matthews didn’t deserve that 11.634 million contract. Way overpaid. He didn’t deserve a cent over 9-9.5 million since Matthews isn’t even top 5 in NHL or hasn’t won anything. He couldn’t even get the Leafs passed round 1 playoffs. Win first then get paid NOT other way around
...it's not the Team...it's the Town...that's what's got to change...
Dont these guys all want 3-5 years so they can get that big contract before they hit their prime? Dont they take less so they get less term? Have i not heard these exact guys mention marner wanted the same term as Matthews? For the past few months ive never heard anyone say these guys all wanted 8 years... these tsn guys are the worst..
They are all in.. theres no doubt. If it doesn't work out in a year or two.. these contracts are GOLD to trade!
@@dallasmr73 so after i correct the spell check error you will give a more insightful response to why the leafs are in cap hell? According to these analysts we were already in cap hell when they signed the nylander contract. And what are we going to do with marleau? We quickly forget how the front office has made magic happen with the cap, and if it does not work out, Any fool will take any of these players at an amazing price seeing ALOT of (their) contract will already be paid out. Yes or no?
@@adamcarbone3576 if the leafs trade any of these guys, they get fleeced and retain salary. Ride or die.
You make it seem easy to move a guy making 10.8-11.2 a season
@@adamcarbone3576 Doubtful, if it wasn't for spell checking these guys would have nothing to add.
@@teamrogers1047 so any team that trades for say, marner in 2 years.. they pay him 10.8-11mill? Maybe im wrong. But if the leafs pay his bonus out at the beginning of the year does the team only have to pay the base salary of what? 700k? The team takes the cap hit. Not the total amount of the salary. The leafs more than likely wont have to take on anything with a deal like that especially after they pay the bonus thats due each july 1st. Look, im not exactly thrilled with the leafs cap situation. But im really hoping the cap goes up, at least 5 mill. Ive already seen dubas work some crazy magic with the cap.
Four years ago “they haven’t won, they haven’t gotten out of the first round”…..four years later, here we are. 🤦🏼♂️🤷🏻♂️
because 11M Tavares and 11.634M Matthews.
Nylander is a part of it but only a part. This all started with paying Tavares over 10mill a year. Tavares as great as he is, he never was a 100 point guy. Paying a point per game player from another team over 10mill a year really effected the Matthews and Marner deals since they are drafted homegrown "cornerstone players". Are they going to take under 10? Fuck no how can you even negotiate that with that Tavares deal.
Also Lightning and Bruins can underpay for shorter contracts because they can say "For 3 years take lower money and we will try to win a cup. We can do it" They don't have ridiculous contracts and they can say take 7 mill or walk. As bad as it is, Bruins can survive without Mcavoy and Lightning can survive without Point. Leafs are so top heavy they really need Marner. Win a cup or go to another franchise. Leafs don't have leverage because they haven't won a series in a long time.
Tavares was an proven elite UFA center. He could have made more money elsewhere. Every team in the NHL that had the cap space is picking him up for $11m without giving up noone on their rosters. The Tavares deal has little to nothing to do with the contract negotiations of the Leafs 3 RFAs. UFA vs RFA, big difference..
@@K20EF8 Yes he would have gotten more money elsewhere but thats the price the Leafs paid. UFA and RFA of course are different but the psychology is the same. Marner's and Matthew's agents use that. "our client gives same production and is the future of the franchise so we wont take less than 10 because you gave Tavares 10"
The Leafs paid their RFAs and John Tavares like they won three Stanley Cups. That's piss poor financial management.
It's also important to note that Point's 3rd year has a base of 9.0m. His next deal has to be above 9.0 and will probably be close if not more than Marner. In 3 years when all these bridge deals are up the Leafs deals will look pretty fair.
Its not a level playing field, in florida they dont pay state tax, in canada they have to pay a shit load in tax, I dont see how that is fair to the GMs, teams, or players playing under a salary cap. They should at least adjust the cap based on how much a player actually walks away with not how much you have to pay the player, province, state, country etc.
Yeah you're right it's should be in the Leafs favour number one it's the biggest hockey Market ever the amount of money you can make on endorsement deals Rivals mcdavid's contract plus you don't have to pay all that yucky escrow number to their paid in USD living in Canada so their dollar goes further
Brandon Botham he said it in this video. These players get paid in America, living in Canada. The American dollar is worth more than Canadian dollar so the state tax thing isn’t even valid
However the problem is the Leafs and the media don't acknowledge this also another win for the Leafs is they can pay almost all of your contract up front which players like
Taxes aside, marner will get payed in USD. Which is around 14 million Canadian
@@poopcrust3400 and then don't forget all that endorsement money he can get playing in the hockey capital of the world
If Tampa wins the next two cups and the Leafs can’t get out of the first round, we have a problem here.
Yep, they've got a problem. Still can't get out of the first round, losing to Tampa this year as they go for the 3-peat.
That's what happens when you hire an 18 year old as your gm
He is actually thirty something but yeah he looks as young as the players
Aha brilliant comment mate up the bolts
Austin Knops pretty sure some of the players are older then him
Calm your nut, lefty.
jake alan and?
Cause they all saw Demar Derozan get traded away when he was loyal and the players agents were like...
See what loyalty gets you? Go for the money!!!!
Fuck whatever other ppl say. This is the TRUTH!!
Leafs aren't going anywhere but out in the first round.
they're not even going to get to the first round without proper cap space to sign decent defencemen and a backup goalie lmaooo
I personally think trading Kadri was a massive move by Dubas. I love Kadri, and will miss him. This year will show if that move was the right one.
@Kai Wong your uninformed, or weak minded, or just plain ignorant. Kadri didn't cost the Leafs 2 playoff series.
1) Its a team game.
2)those games the refs were the wannabe stars on ice.
3)year 1... Marchand lick face
4)year 2... DeBrusk elbow gate.
5)Kadri has more grit and sand paper than 99% of the Leafs combined.
6) final point... How is Colorado doing this year?
It wasn’t lol
Because they are the maple leafs that’s why
@@jonz8482 You hope the Leafs NEVER win anything for the remainder of the existence, we get it. As long as the Leafs keep losing EVERY year, everyone will be happy, right??
ckendall67 no that’s Boston. People may hate the leafs, but you’ll NEVER be hated more than those mothaphuckers
What happened to the Shannaplan? Nylander should have sat last year and we'd be in better shape.
when comparing salaries, you need to also consider taxes..... big difference in taxes between florida and ontario.
Huuuuge difference.
yes but also they are living in Canada on US money,not to shabby
@Kai Wong where have you been ? Do you really think that the players pay for their apartments,no,no it's the leafs,and do you think they pay more for food than normal working people,no,no,and when on the road ,do you think they pay for travelling and rooms and meals,no,no
The media and fan base create this environment. Having 100s of writers, and analysts looking for their spin on a single narrative brought in the percentage of cap instead of comparables. We had media talking about Matthews being able to demand over 15 million. The people that live off the Leafs and their fan base, ruin the team. They care more about their careers and next story than the team winning.
What about when Point reups at 13 mill in 3 years and marners deal looks golden
No way point gets paid anywhere close to Mcdavid
Funny thing is Point would need to sign for 13 million to even get even with Marner lmao. If Point signed for 13 million over 3 years in his next contract he would have still earnt less than Marner over these 6 years and we all know Tampa do not get bent over the table over contracts so Point will not even get 12 million so Point is on a much better contracts
I have said it from the beginning. The Leafs overpaid Nylander & then gave a ridiculous deal to Matthews, before he earned the right to get the deal at all. The Leafs should have known that Marner would expect to get the same amount as Matthews. Somehow they seemed surprised when Marner demanded the same. No matter if the Leafs win or not, Dubas really showed that he is a rookie GM.
Part of it is the high taxes in Canada. That's a big part of it.
the players are also being paid American dollars in Canada though. That definitely makes up some of that money.
3-5 mil just to stand the Toronto media! 53 years and still counting for the next cup
Connor, Laine, Tkachuk, Rantanen all haven't signed yet..
Yeah, TSN is a joke
They're not signed yet cuz their respective GM's aren't spineless like Dubas
Because they signed an outsider “Tavares” and gave him 11M the kids they drafted and developed aren’t going to take much less.
Tavares had at least led a mediocre team to a playoff series win up to that point. I don't think him, nor his contract has been an issue to this point. Ask me in 2-3 years and I might say ok now we have a problem. But right now, and for the duration of this "young" core, it's not. The problem here is they payed up front to players who are amazing and have insane talent - but haven't accomplished anything from a team, an organization perspective. There's only 1 group of players I think you pay up front - goaltenders. They should be getting cheaper as they age because that spot does work to your body. You can't have your cap space going to players who will never live up to their contracts later on. Price right now is an anomaly, take a look at all the previous high paid goalie contracts and see that it's not a recipe for success. Quite ironically, you should never pay the young RFAs the bank they want - do the bridge deals and make them develop into proven, consistent stars who make their money and earn the long term contract. Leafs didn't here and 2 years later we're now doing the "oh shit" dance.
It's common sense, once 1 player gets 11 million, the rest won't settle for anything else. It's unfair buts it's how it works.
Enjoy watching your team explode next summer.
Leafs core players have screwed the team. There’s no money to acquire the necessary depth to win in the playoffs now and it’s on the core players being greedy and not leaving anything on the table, even though all of their peers sign and continue to sign for reasonable deals.
Lets be real Toronto is not Winning a Stanley cup. They can’t even get out of the first round
All teams are so close in talent these days that anyone can win
Considering the Leafs (#3 seed) were up 3-2 in the finals vs Boston (#2 seed). Sure they lost in 7, but Boston won the east and went all the way to game 7 of the cup final. So I would say they really weren't far off from being championship caliber. That being said you aren't wrong about them not passing the first round in a long time. But to say they have no chance of winning the cup with their current roster, I would say you must have them confused with the Florida Panthers. Stick to basketball black mamba.
Ontario income tax is crazy compared to that of Massachusetts, Florida, and Carolina. If they took a team friendly deal in Ontario they would be making millions less than guys in those other markets. Salary cap doesn't take into consideration income tax and how much of that a players loses so they must be paid higher in Toronto to compensate..
Can it get any less simple..?
Dubas is a good guy and very smart, Much like Trudeau in a way where you want to like them for their character and youth. You need more than that to be a successful NHL GM, He will learn quickly how valuable the experience is, I still trust him but in the future he does need more ruthless
Bwaka 67 you like Trudeau for his character? That’s a first. Do you also wear brown face?
Why Leafs did not get friendly signed deals: Because the Leafs don't want or need a Stanley Cup. It' s because they really really really really really want and need a Stanley Cup.
In 4 years Point will be taking home more than Marner given the tax structure
@Ash Moe I'm talking take home money here. So Marner is roughly 65 million for 6 years Point is 20 million for 3 years. A contract in Florida , I'm not a tax expert but I've been told, is like signing for 20% more. So to compare apples to apples Point signed for 24 million. Since his 3rd year is at 9 million he has to be offered at least 9 million in year 4. Really though if his performance stays the same and the cap goes up he will get awarded or signed to a contract that pays at least 10, 12 and say 12 in year 4, 5 and 6. That's 34 million plus the 20%, 6.8 million. So he is pretty well assured 64.8 million over the 6 years. 24 + 40.8. The leafs given their cap problem over the next 3 years opted for cost certainty while Tampa needed cap flexibility. Two teams with 2 different needs. Really rough numbers but I believe the contracts are similar. Kucherov take home is like he signed for 11.4 million.
@@peterspence4268 Yes and the other day one of these shows said stop with the tax talk the Leafs get there money in US dollar so it is not much atall they aint gonna pay there tax in US are they so i think it was this show that said it stop with the taxes stuff. It is minimal at best and then lets not forget the other moeny these leafs will get being in Toronto. Matthews Tavares and Marner probably will make about a quarter plus of there yearly salary i bet in advertisement maybe even more.
The tax rate in Tampa is 39% in Ontario is 53% on a $ 9.5 millions . That means we need about $12.5 millions in Ontario compare to $10 millions in Tampa. That’s the biggest problem
Imagine the Leafs could afford someone like Ryan Orielly who wins you the Stanley Cup 👍
Dude, he's won one cup in 10 years in the league. I think it's a bit early to say that he 'wins you cups'.
:/
the only people that are unaware of how babcock was blindsided by the manager, was shannahan, and the rest of the leaf office.. In My Opinion
lmfao bruh we got term out of our players... these are 3 years. Come back in 3 years when Point is making $13M a year and marner is still making $10.89M
Point will make 10.5 in 3 years its Tampa
Well. You're still 13m over the cap. Season start is basically imminent now, so you're losing alot before the season starts.
11DNA11 they actually aren't, sooooo learn ur facts
Auston Matthews ahh a great Point made. There’s also the fact that Florida tax is virtually nonexistent but these guys are still being overly dramatic.
I think you're wrong a zero state tax like Florida has to be an advantage. Money up front is Torontos way of creating a competitive advantage and also making these contracts perhaps (Big If) tradeable if the time comes where they have to off load them. In hindsight with Matthew's and Marner coming to the "trough" to feed they should have called Nylanders bluff. Even if that summer they gave him what he wanted it would have been a nice visual optic for Dubas. Again in hindsight Nylander played so poorly once he got here it mattered little if he had sat.
When will you guys realize you have to pay more BECAUSE you're the leafs and there is so much added pressure on everyone that plays there. There is no "hometown discount" its hazard pay
Yeah but the amount of money that you make in endorsements playing for Toronto can rival even mcdavid's contract without all that pesky escrow stuff also they get paid in USD while living in Canada so there dollar goes further this is just a pure case of inexperience GM and greedy players
@@dragonpress3310 yeah, but nothing.
But the Leafs sucked for 10 years and still the arena was full, people bought merch and were rabid fans nonetheless. I wouldn't call that a "pressure" town.
Flip side of this is the Leafs go far in the playoffs, win a cup or two, the salary cap goes up again and all this breathless panic is wasted breath.
Ha Ha! Good one ... win a cup or two! You have a great sense of humour.
Kappy? Johnsson? Barries cap hit? Dubas is loading top heavy, similar to how the pens, and caps did their business. Too heavy, strong scouting to fill the holes. Stop the bs story line... THE JETS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD HELLOOOO
Manifested Logic kapenen and johnsson could score 10 goals next year. They really ain’t top 6 forwards. Dubas got bent over by Matthews, marner, nylander camps
@@poopcrust3400 Kapanen and Johnsson could score 30 goals this year. They really are top 6 forwards. Nylander could get 70~80 pts. That 7M is gonna look like a bargain compared to the Kevin Hayes, Keller contracts.
@@gordonbgraham alot of could and maybe's, not much substance there
Goalie Dad 33 So, pretty much the same as the guy who wrote Kapanen and Johnsson could score 10 goals. Not much substance there...I agree
Gordon Graham Gordon, don't bother. He has no idea what he's talking about LOL. I will buy you leaf tickets if they both score under ten goals lol
These RFAs did not give their teams "Team Friendly" deals.
All they did was set themselves up for a big payday down the road. All of these deals are structured to take a gigantic leap in the final year. In Point's case this means that the team either has to offer him a 9M dollar QO, or take him to arbitration. Also he has the right to take THEM to arbitration where he would get a 1 year deal and then be able to walk as a UFA. Not saying that he would walk, but he'd have that option. If Hayes thinks he won't be making more than Kucherov in year 4, he's insane.
If Tampa has to cut him loose then they will. The fact is they have him the next 3 years for peanuts. William Nylander has a higher cap hit than Brayden Point, let that sink in.
Those RFAs had no choice but to take "team friendly" deals but in Toronto the RFAs dictated things.
When you look that the likes of Tampa or Bostons cap structure, Torontos is pathetic.
Our 3 RFAs took everything they could, they got the $$$ at a lower term and a ton of upfront money.
Im a big Leaf fan but if they cant make it past the first round again, I hope heads will roll here.
@Ash Moe He's probably gonna make between 12 and 13 million per season. Remember the cap is gonna jump in 2022 when the NHL renegotiates its TV deal. All of these RFAs did the smart thing, they know the cap is gonna take a huge leap the year their contract expires. Also Tampa won't be able to trade him if he just takes them to arbitration as will be his right.
Point will have for sure established himself as best center on the team by then i feel he is now but he will take probably 10 million -11 million if cap goes up just do the percent of cap 10-11 mill would be and that will be fine, If Point signed a 8 year deal Tampa would have had Point for 11 years at 100-110 million Marner will probably getting way more money again so i am taking Point situation all day. Or do it this way if Point signed a 3 year deal again he would have to take like 13 million to each year to get close to Marner so i highly doubt that would happen and if the cap goes up would probably have to take like 15-`16 million, so Point is on a super deal. Marner not so much. Marner will never get 40 goals he is a good setup man but i am taking the C who can score 40 and get the same points as like a 25 goalscorer
This team has an excellent chance at a cup but two organizational missteps. Shanahan suggesting players take less and signing Tavares at 11mil.
Point's contract is set up where the last year has a $9M salary. Which means his next Qualifying Offer is a minimum of $9M.
And they might have 3 cups at that point.
Kyle are A paper boy ! leafs are good on paper but not A play off team ,
in toronto there's more pressure because of the fans, in canada the taxes are higher and the players know if they wait they will get what they want. babcock doesn't help either, you get him players by trade and he doesn't use them.
DuMbasS
Rants gets 9.25 for 6, oof this video aged really well. RIP Leafs.
Still aging horribly lol
Because Toronto is going to win the cup...hahahahahahaha
The Leafs know what the cap is but deep down they don't think it applies to them because they're the Leafs, God's gift to the universe of sports. How else can you explain the absurdity of signing Tavares?
Toronto will not advance further again in the playoffs. No grit all fluff won't get them far.
Mike C I will never understand this. It's not about grit. Grit is not the reason they lost.
Mike C they outhit Boston last year, if they had home ice I bet they win both years
DJ1NS4N1TY they almost won without home ice😭
@@Hockeyhobo89 You didnt watch how the Blues won the Cup then. Stick to Tennis bro
Goalie Dad 33 he was talking about the first round since he was talking about advancing further. Sure, eventually it gets to the point where you hope your team stays healthy and the only way is to hurt the other team. Also what's with the tennis comment? I don't even like tennis
You guys forgot about Eichel? He was the first contract of this young guys who set this off beside Mcdavid. Or how about Panarin?
Eichel signed for 8 years at 10m with very little of it in signing bonuses. That is a fair contract for an elite young #1 center.
Panarin was a UFA who has put up a point per game in his career..
Yeah, Eichel also left $ on the table for sabres when he signed. 10 mil over 8 years for a #1 center who is the face of the franchise is more than fair.