Amp vs. Pedal! The "Death" Tone (VS8100 vs MARTYR)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- (See below for info, gear used, and links!)
I've been wanting to make a comparison video of the Master Effects Martyr pedal, and the Marshall 8100 head, since the Martyr is an "8100 in a box". I've had my 8100 for years and i know it very well, and I'm happy to report that the Martyr pedal really does sound like the 8100! Of course it will never be a perfect 1-1 match, even two 8100 heads won't sound completely identical. These are old amps, and amps can change over time as the components wear out, and some of the new component tolerances have changed over the years.
So there are clearly some differences, but they are rather slight in my opinion. Maybe someone else could dial them in more closely, but the sonic signature of the 8100 is very clearly there, and nobody would ever know the difference in a mix! Or especially live, if you want the 8100 sound, but don't want to take your precious amp out of the studio!
One thing that is VERY obvious is how quiet the pedal is, compared to the amp. I didn't really realize how noisy it was until I heard them side by side!
Get the Master Effects Martyr here:
mastereffects....
Gear used:
For the first part, a Schecter JLX-6 FR, into a Maxon OD808, then into the amp (or pedal.)
The second section was a Schecter C7 FR SLS Elite, into a Fortin Grind pedal, then into the amp (or pedal.)
For the sections with the pedal, I was using the Marshall's Effects return, to ensure that it was purely the preamp circuit that was being compared.
The amp was then hooked up to my home-made 2x12 cabinet, with one T75, and one V30. Both speakers are OLD and very well worn! Each one was mic'd with a single SM57.
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Sounds great. I like the pedal tones so much better!
that isnt just the pedal its boosted with a maxon od 2 pedals and it isnt exact
That amp is a classic but the pedal's quietness won me over on top of it sounding so close to the amp. Super cool.
My god, that tone and those riffs will never get old. Very nicely done Gord!
Gotta say I like the pedal more than the amp. The lack of noise on the pedal really does it for me. Considering I can't find a Valvestate, the pedal seems like a no-brainer!
I like the speaking format. Sometimes an explanation is helpful rather than reading blocks of text or just listening to demos alone.
just an amazing piece of gear, i have two VS100 heads with matching cabs since decades and just love them but these are very unreliable because of the cheap components marshall used back then.. so this pedal is a great solution for people who live in the US but also a pain in the azz to get it shipped overseas here to germany, shipping costs are a whooping 60$ and its the same price that you have to pay for a vs100 head used here.. cheers 🎸🎸
martyr pedal doesnt have a tube preamp and doesnt have thd tube sizzle of the 8100 sounds sterile
Love the vid, dude. I prefer the explanations you're giving in this one.
Thanks! I might try to do more speaking in future videos, it's definitely easier to explain things that way!
“I heard you like valvestates, so I plugged a valvestate into my valvestate so you could listen to a valvestate through a valvestate!”
😂😂😂
Both great tones - the lack of hiss with the pedal on the palm stops sold it to me.
Graeme Puttock Yeah it's a pretty huge difference! I didn't realize how significant it was until I heard the audio side by side.
Call me crazy but I liked the pedal on riffs even more than the amp.
GuyLikesGuitar Yeah the pedal is a little thicker than the amp, and so much quieter!
Pedal is a bit more "bummy" while chugging, but it`s super close! Best comparison on yt! Thanks!
I agree, some differences in the low end response, but definitely very close overall. Cheers!
Whoa! You nailed Death's tone! The pedal, to my ear's sounded better, fuller and just as musical. But the palm mutes on the pedal were WAY better! Thank you this video. Great talking part, man. To the point and very informative.
Thanks so much! It's an awesome pedal, for sure!
I love those tones! I think they both sound awesome and I'd be happy with either one :)
I feel the same! I've always loved the 8100 sound, and the pedal absolutely gets "that" sound, if that's what you're after!
Yeah! First of all I want to say that this is the first video where the pedal sounds like a VALVESTATE to me. Then I want to say that it´s such a pleasure to hear these never old getting riffs!
haha Thanks!
Bloody hell...three years late to the party! Since I'm here, gotta say that through headphones the amp wins for me due to better definition and to hell with the hiss I love it anyway! Great playing brother and thanks for the comparo 🤘::🤘
Thanks man, appreciate it! The pedal sounds awesome, but yeah the amp definitely has a bit of a special something in it.
I am shocked at how good of a preamp clone this is, and gets rid of the excess noise in the old Valvestate line! Really steller work.
Thanks! And yeah, I think it's basically a perfect substitute for the old originals.
Killer play-through too! Death riffs for days!
Super video, I was looking forward to it, and it did not disappoint. Damn that Martyr pedal sounds almost indentical to the VS8100. Lucky for you that Master Effects is local, hope to hear from more them and looking forward to more metal guitar vids. 🤘
Thanks!
doesnt sound identical it sounds sterile thats why he using it with a 4000 dollar amp a oost😂
it misses the tube sizzle post a side by side without cheatjng using effects snd a boost the 8100 sounds much better like tube distortion not cold
Need to get me one of those! My 8100 is definitely on its way out and no amp techs local deal with solid state stuff
I definitely recommend it! I've run into that too, a lot of techs don't want to work on SS amps. I'm so happy to be able to use the Martyr whenever I want now, and not worry about it! Plus it sounds so clean and quiet compared to the amp, it's great!
Nice work man! The pedal has a touch more clarity and top end, but otherwise, they're bang on. Cool to know there's a pedal maker in Calgary🤘
love the video my friend, this one convice me to ordered the pedal this morning. I just realized how much my amp is precious and very old recently because during my relocation i saw that one of the amp foot was broken. Nothing crazy and easy to fix, but when you see that you know it's a really bad idea to took it out the home to rehearsal with the band or live situation. This little pedal will bring me the perfect sound that i love and found with this amp without to take the risk to kill my lovely amp
Thanks Ben! So glad that it helped! I know you will love the pedal!
Thanks for the comparison man, great job... both are great...! which means killer work for the pedal maker! And those RIFFS... Genius!!!!! rest in peace, Chuck!
For all intents and purposes they sound identical. Great pedal. 🤘
I just found out about this pedal, wanted one, found this video, and ordered as soon as the vid was over. As someone who worships at the house of Death/Chuck this is must. Thanks for this video.
Came here for the pedal demo, stayed for the awesome playing!
Love it! The 8100 was my first amp head back in the mid 90's. I've wanted to revisit it, so I may need to grab one of these pedals haha. Great comparison. The amp and pedal are extremely similar sounding.Through the 75 the real amp seemed to have a little more texture/grit to the gain structure, while the pedal was a little faster tracking, just a hair more mid forward, & punchier in the low mids. For the down tuned section with the V30 they were nearly indistinguishable to the point where I'm not sure I could pick them out with any consistency.
Pretty much exactly what I hear too. It's definitely a great alternative to finding a real 8100 that's still in good reliable working condition!
Fantastic man! Great vid. Was the first guitar a Loomis model?
Jeremy Varao Thanks dude! Yeah it's a Schecter JLX Loomis sig. One of my favorite guitars ever!
Thanks for the demo, with the death tone it sounds like the higher lead parts are pretty much the same but on lower notes the amp has more pronounced overtones. On the modern tone this difference entirely disappeared which was interesting
Thanks for the vid man. And thanks for sharing your settings. I have this amp too and EQ'ed differently to get a Chuck like tone. I haven't used an OD with it yet. But I will give it a try with your settings. Cheers! 😃
This is awesome! and it looks like you've been doing it for a long time. Keep at it! Talking is good.
and yeah, it was really close, I didn't think it would be that close. the pedal sounded a bit flat but sounded great.
Great, great video 🤘🏻
Thanks!
Subscribed! Great tones and great playing man👊🏼 In the first Playthrough I preferred the Martyr maxon combo, but my only critique is that I would have liked to hear them in a mix. On the 2nd guitar they sounded identical to me. Bottom line, you got way better tones than I did on my 8100 videos. Rock on👊🏼🤘🏼
Thanks man! You're getting great tones from it too, nice work!
Gord Olson thanks man! We’re all having fun and thats what matters most🤘🏼Btw I thought you did great talking once you got rolling👊🏼
@@brokenlevelmusic haha Thanks dude. I'm not much of a talker in real life, but I can definitely rant about gear for hours on end. I just need to get past the idea of talking to a camera.
Brand new to your videos man. I'm all for you pushing for speaking on video bro. I understand how nerve racking it can be. Do it more bro. It'll come naturally to you soon enough.
New subscriber btw.
Thank you man, I really appreciate that!
Gotta say, the Martyr is absolutely my choice for rhythm parts and most of the leads. The bottom end is much fuller without sacrificing anything, and as you note, it's also less noisy!
would love to hear this through the cv75s - you're one of the few people showing off that speaker in a metal context
Jon Ott Yeah I love those speakers to death! Unfortunately the cabinet that they're in is at my band's rehearsal space, so I can't access it right now!
Despiritied had some good songs back in the day
Like said below, the pedal seems to be better, less noise, thicker, tighter... great sounds. Great playing, too
Amazing demo! It makes wanna buy the pedal
Pedal has a fuller bottom end, way less noise, I think you just gotta push the treble up a smidge for it to match with the real deal, and by such a small amount I don't think anyone is going to notice unless they're looking for it, solo'd.
Fantastic. I'd been looking for an 8100, saw this pedal, and sure enough a day later Keith Merrow puts up a video featuring one and I'm pretty sure they're about to be a little more scarce. This is exactly what I needed to see to pull the trigger on one.
Glad I could help! You'll love it, it's one of my favorite pedals ever, for sure. I've officially retired my 8100 from service now!
I've got two other videos here using the Martyr too, if you need to hear it in a couple of different scenarios. My Martyr Demo vid, and also the At The Gates cover I did was using an earlier prototype version of the pedal, when it was called "Marsha". Cheers!
Wow this is weird. I never expected these valvestate to become rare. Here in italy i often seen them in crappy rehearsal rooms and get sold for around 150. Maybe i should grab a couple of those
Tutatis Maybe it's just North America, or Canada even, but yeah they're not so common here anymore. I'm happy to have one for sure!
It’s the US too. They go for a premium these days.
Had one back in the 90's. As good as it's gonna get without the real thing! Boy I could hear in the other room when that Vintage 30 came in
Sick! Nice job!
I'd imagine that there's more components at play regarding the tone. The amp is obviously a critical part but I'd assume pickup choice, bridge and speaker definitely influences it. Still damn close with that martyr pedal. I'd assume "Studio magic" applies to the elimination of noise during the rests in certain Death songs. Or maybe Chuck just had insane muting skills! Ha ha ha.
Chuck used a Dimarzio X2N his entire career, so you'd want either that or a similar high output ceramic pup. Think the cab/mike combo he used has also been documented but I don't know it off the top of my head.
Rock on brother. Preach!! Btw did you do vocals on Demisery album with Merrow? Love that album
Thank you! And yeah, that was me! Vocals and guitar as well.
Damn close! 🤘
So, the pedal has a tube in it also!?! Shall i am get a 7 string version of that guitar you are playing ???
If you're very very lucky you can. They did make them, but only for about a year if I remember right. They are amazing guitars, and quite hard to find!
I've been looking for the tone one Voice of the soul. MArshall Solid states nowadays don't get close to that. But then i found a 8100 Plugin. And it's amazing. But I'm even more happier someone made this, it's and invaluable tool. The tones are so tasty.
what 8100 plugin you using?
@@xindridxcoldx check out Andiority plugin. If I've spelled that correctly
@@Anshul1614 yeah I have an instance of that up on cubase ATM and a instance of Klirrton Grindstein.
@@xindridxcoldx the Audiority presets are pretty cool. The reverb are accurately represented, just useless.
I have an 8100 I run out into a Marshall tube power section...so it is basically a full tube amp. My settings are dramatically different than yours on the 8100 but I go no noise whatsoever. Dead silent.
big props for breaking the fourth wall man.
Nice job. I just bought an 8100 for $180 otherwise I would've probably grabbed this pedal, sounds close enough
Lavabug Great score! Awesome amp!
Damn close.....love my 8100 ...😊 might get the pedal though
I love my 8100 too, but if I'm honest with myself, the pedal is much quieter, cleaner, smaller, and lighter than the old 8100 haha. So for me, I actually prefer the Martyr. Definitely recommended!
Now we have Death and Prong covered, can we get a pedal that sounds like exhorders the law or Believers extraction from mortality?? That would be killer
i really want this pedal but 60$ shipping to EU for this tiny thing is just a rip off in my opinion. with some tax you are at 300 bucks 😂😪
I prefer the 8100 it has less low mids and the bass is deeper and heavier. I lost my first 8100 in a house fire and got a used one but the boost channel volume and master volume pots are cashed and will only engage at very specific settings. I haven't opened it up but I wonder if the original owner swapped the tube or had it modded. It's the best 8100 I've ever heard even beats the tone on Symbolic and Thought Patterns. Sounds like a tube amp whereas my first one sounded very solid state. It easily beats out my Three Channel Rectifier, Block Letter 5150 and JCM2000.
Nice! It's so hard to tell with these amps sometimes, being as old as they are, components can drift enough to alter the tone of them from one amp to another. I have a Tung Sol 12ax7 in mine, and I think it's a fantastic sounding amp as well. I have all those same amps too (basically), a Dual Rec Rev G "Racktifier", a USA 6505, and a JCM2000 DSL, and yeah I would say that the 8100 can hang with any of them.
@@GordOlson oh nice ractifier's are sick amps. I'd much rather have a rev G anything than my three channel.
Don't worry about using the amp, it can always be repaired and suffer no loss of tone:)
🔥🔥
I have the martyr as well and the amp and I think the pedal lacks the gain the amp has. I may have to actually get it that maxon you’re pairing with it.
Certainly not a complaint though - i think I just see why you may have chose that particular boost to pair with it.
Maybe a bit less gain, yeah. I wasn't sure if it was because I have a higher gain tube in the 8100, but that amp still isn't very high gain though, quite similar to a JCM800 in that regard. I always felt that the 8100 (like an 800) needed a boost to get where I wanted it, and the pedal is basically the same way. Although, Tim from Master Effects recently told me that he has made some updates to the Martyr circuit, one of them being that it has more gain now.
@@GordOlson I did pair an sd1 with the vs8100 as a boost and honestly I surprisingly didn’t like it at all but it seems to go a little better with the martyr but still doesn’t seem to pair as well as the maxon does in this demo.
@@someonehadtosayit2566 That's interesting, I don't have an SD-1, but that's a classic and is known to work very well with other Marshalls, like an 800 for example. I would have expected it to pair well with the 8100. The Maxon is an excellent OD/Boost, it works really well for tightening up amps and making them sound more aggressive. Works very well with my Dual Rec and 6505 heads as well.
@@GordOlson the vs8100 is also known for not really needing a boost hence why Schuldiner pretty much just plugged straight into the amp and played other than maybe a chorus and delay pedal for solos etc…
As for when I used the sd1 with it, I may have to try setting it differently than the traditional volume up all the way and gain down all the way and maybe just bring that gain down on the amp and up the gain on the pedal.
Have to wait until I get the amp back from tech servicing to try it.
The sd1 does seem to work better with the martyr though but doesn’t sound as good as the maxon with it in this video.
I wanna buy this pedal but I’m afraid if I don’t have an overdrive pedal it won’t sound this clean any thoughts?
I just love the Seinfeld reference :)
haha You're the first person to notice, or at least to say anything about it!
Are you plugged into the effects return or the front of your amp?
Straight into the return. The Martyr pedal is a preamp circuit. Cheers!
Very close! I’d take the real deal over the pedal though.
The pedal just sounds like a modern version of the amp. Sounds like it but more polished.
Yep, I think that's a good description of it!
So if i were to buy the 2 pedals, would i have to use a random amp to plug into the effects return to plug into a cab? Would the amp i use affect the tone?
Yeah, you would need some sort of amp to play them through a cabinet. You can use a dedicated poweramp, or any amp's fx return, or you can go into the front of the amp as well on a clean channel. It works great in all of those scenarios! An effects return or poweramp shouldn't affect the tone much, going into the front of an amp will affect it the most, but you have an extra set of eq controls on the amp to play with as well, which can be a good thing sometimes!
@@GordOlson thanks again for the info sir!
Killer riff at 5:06 . All your own?
At 5:06, that's the song 'Misanthrope' from Death's album Symbolic. The riffs starting at 6:00 are my own, but the rest before that are all Death riffs. Cheers!
the 8100 is noisier cause it uses a tube preamp it has better crunch period many videos show this it sounds like classic marshall tube crunch the martyr sounds cold and non tube he just uses effects and select riffs to try to make it sound similar
Effects? lol Nope. No "effects" are needed to make the pedal sound like the amp. And select riffs? I don't even know what you mean by that. The pedal is literally the same circuit as the amp, so why wouldn't it sound similar? Also, the 8100 does NOT have a tube preamp, it's a solid state preamp with one 12ax7 that the signal passes through to warm it up a bit. The tube is not used to actually create the distortion. That's fine if you like the 8100 better though, you're allowed. But don't accuse me of using "effects" to make them sound similar.
Amp by far. For those who said it's noisy, than there is a pedal called noise gate. You need to find the sweet spot, and done.
without the boost pedal what does it sound like and compare to the amp?
Kind of the same differences, just lower gain and spongier sounding. The 8100 circuit doesn't have a ton of gain, and gets a little squishy when it's maxed out. With lighter gauge strings, high output pickups, and a heavy picking hand, you can do alright, but I feel like it needs that boost to do proper chunky high gain tones. As I understand it, Chuck used a Boss DS-1 in front of his for an extra push as well.
I need one of these badly lol
Alex It's a killer pedal!
@@GordOlson Do you think I could play this through a peavy 6505 combo amp? Pretty much all I got as far as a speaker.
Alex Absolutely! That's a great amp, you'd get some sick tones with it for sure
You would not need the pedal if you had the X2N pickup
I actually do have a different guitar with an X2N in it. But actually, the X2N is only slightly hotter than the Schecter Apocalypse pickup in the guitar in this video (15.8k vs. 14.4k output) but they are different pickups, so it's hard to compare them just on paper. But truthfully, they don't feel much different from one another. Another factor is the pickup height, with really high output pickups like these, I actually keep them a little farther away from the strings to avoid the negative affect on sustain they can have from magnetic pull. So the pickup being farther away means less signal going into the amp. So yeah, I don't really NEED the pedal, but it works better with my setup, and doesn't really sound any different because I'm using it like a clean boost.
Your Schecter Cygnus are custom? What you change?
It's a standard model, but I changed the pickups to a Schecter Apocalypse set, and ordered a custom vinyl skin to change the color.
@@GordOlson amazing!! Looks unique!
Almost no difference on the downtuned riffs.
I think it’s safe to retire that Marshall and buy a second pedal to act as a back up.
haha Yes, the Marshall has officially retired!
lol the guy got paid by martyr plugged into a tube amp usss a boost then says it nails the 8100😂 thats why those bands still use the vs right
You're making shit up man. First, I didn't get paid by anybody to do this video. Second, the pedal wasn't plugged into a tube amp, it was running into the fx return of the 8100. And third, I actually never said that the pedal "nails" the 8100 sound, or that it sounds better than the amp, did I? I didn't make any claims, all I said was that the pedal sounds killer, and it does. And fine, I said in the description that it sounds "like" an 8100. Well, you heard it. It does! Is it EXACTLY like my 8100? No, it's not, but it's very very close.
I regret selling my 8080. And I was wanted to have that preamp un a box. I'll try to find this pedal. Thanks for that! The review, tones and playing are great!
Thank you! This pedal really does recreated that 8080 / 8100 sound perfectly! Cheers!
5:05 amp wins