Huge thank you for all of the support recently- I'm still answering emails and comments, it just takes me a bit to get through them all. Thanks! Also if you haven't subscribed please do, It really helps!
That's a pretty nice tool you made for measuring the cam timing events. reminds me of a cam doctor. Great idea to use that for programming your controller but unless the engine has a 1:1 rocker arm ratio you will have to multiply your measurements by the stock rocker arm ratio to give you the actual valve lift instead of the cam lift. Very different measurements.
Very clever, Wes. Good job. Looking forward to seeing what extra tricks you’ll be able to do with the HF engine. No instantaneous stop/start, obviously but CVVT should be fun. Just an idea to think about ( You seem like the kinda guy who’d be interested and might get it running ) - Laser ignition? Perhaps using a hologram window to seed multiple flame fronts simultaneously? ;-D
I'm on a page on Facebook call The Predator 212 owners group. And man we would love to see ya on the page, lot of guys on the page build these things up to 20+ hp rippers, and i know alot of the guys might be curious what you're doing cause maybe it could be a soulution for some serious power, or being creative about it. You perfect it and sell it as a kit. Either way man would love to have ya on the group
The Honda D Series Non Vtec engines are way more reliable and are non interference engines as well and you have a smaller head to worry about, and it only has one cam🤣 (most of them anyway, if you overlook the D16A8 from the ED9 CRX)
@@THEBOZZ1801 Since when has most D-series' been non-inteference engines. I understood that they are interference ones, atleast the ones that have VTEC
don't forget that the second tiny lift event on the exhaust can is only at very low rpm for compression relief to aid starting and it is controlled mechanically on the cam to "go away" at around 300 rpm for running conditions.
Ah, that explains it - was wondering what that was. I've seen that mechanism on lawn mowers, a tiny cam on the cam itself connected to a flyweight, above a certain RPM it swings away and the mini-cam turns to be flush with the big cam.
Bsically a decompression system built into the camshaft lobe and some sort of simple mechanical inertia weights that turns off the decompression system after certain engine rpm...
Your ability to execute on your out of the box ideas is really impressive. When I started watching, I expected you to be a crackpot based on how out there your ideas were. So happy to see that you are really good at this. You're an artist that paints in engineering tools. I think when you get your Miata going with programmable valves, your channel is going to blow up!
Do the Miata. This stuff is going to be hard enough without doing it all twice on a V8. It´s just a proof of concept anyway. And btw, I´m amazed at how matter of factly you deal with this stuff. It´s rocket science to me! EDIT: Four valve heads give you more scope to play about with things like shutting down two of the valves for say fuel economy.
Well, 4 cylinder with 4 valve each, or 8 cylinder with 2 valves each both ends up at 16.. But I think a inline 4 is nice and easy to acces the valvetrain, so it's still a smarter choice IMO.
@@WesleyKagan I would have to agree with miata simply because the progress will go along a lot quicker. That being said, I would highly suggest trying it on an LS at some point to target a different/bigger audience.
I'd think the DOHC configuration of the Miata would be much harder to work with than a pushrod design. Harder to fit things together, and you'd have to be all-or-nothing, couldn't have some cylinders run normally and others freevalve simply by removing or installing pushrods/rockers. And as others say, the LS and Miata both have the same number of valves. I'd suggest an older pushrod two-valve-per-cylinder four banger. Also something older that isn't emissions-regulated, as there's no way something modified like this could stay emissions-compliant on top of everything else. But before any of that, just get it running really well, reliably, and long-lasting on the Predator.
Can't wait for more content from you. This is the first time getting into the nitty gritty of builds like that. And I can't imagine a better person that you showing me how it's done.
The fact you are so open about sharing what you are doing with the goal of making it the best thing it can be to then also be so open to ideas by any design means necessary, is admirable and very refreshing. Nice.
Yup exactly my thought... He can add the final multiplier number anyways afterward.. but atleast having the multiplier from beginning, will help the engine works like its from factory spec (or slightly from factory for better performance)
I don’t think it matters to him, his design doesn’t have variable valve positioning so all the data he really needs what the cam is doing at X degrees of engine rotation. Free valve will make the “cam profile” a series of plateaus vs rolling hills of the traditional cam.
@@jamescharron4535 The only problem with plateaus is there's some fairly complex voodoo that happens with overlap. Worse is the piston affects it, so he'll probably end up playing with overlap the most. Cool thing is he can essentially give it VVT, advance for low speed and retard for high speed.
How have a lived in AZ with this absolute genius my entire life and never heard of him. You’re a legend and I admire your ability to create and learn so much
Another awesome video! The only flaw in your rig is the Predator camshaft has a compression release mechanism on the cam. Your recorded profile is also recording the compression release "bump". The compression release mechanism is controlled by centrifugal force and once the engine is spinning the "bump" on the exhaust cam lobe is disengaged.
@@WesleyKagan with electronic mapping you can include it at start, remove it at run revs, you can go from a stock cam to full race spec, you can be totally variable throughout the rev range and achieve profiles impossible running off an actual cam
I love your enthusiasm for engineering. If your work can find a way to replicate and document koenigsegg-like improvements on common motors, in your garage, you won't have to ask strangers what you should power. The world will beat a path to your door, and you will have the means to make your own supercars out of anything. Keep plugging away, you'll get it!!!
I have literally been dreaming about putting the Freevalve system in my NA Miata for months! I'm so happy that this channel showed up in my recommendations. Keep up the awesome work!
im now amazed that someone actually went ahead and got into rhe freevalve idea, ive been drooling on it since its pretty dope but it didnt make sense the way that it was originally designed (pneumatically actuated, hydraulically locked) and honestly i really wanna see this in a diesel engine. im definitely subscribing and imma have my ear to the ground, im not even half as good as you at coding nor engine thinkering but still in for the ride, mad props!
I don’t care what shirt you wear or what your garage looks like. You’re making some kickass tech and that’s what really matters. Don’t let the negative comments get you down. You’re doing great!
very excited to see this. One thing to remember is that the cam opens the valves gradually because that's all it can do. With the freevalve approach you can open the cam much faster (at least at slower RPM). The only limit is if you have an interference engine where a fully opened cam will hit the piston. Some of the valve overlap timing is compensation for the fact that the cam takes time to open the valve, some is to help flush the combustion gasses out more completely.
Love it. Its good to see that you arent stuck on old designs, and dont mind making a few paper weights on your way to making something great. Prototyping is a big pain in the ass, but to some, me included, its fun and we do it on our free time.
I really love that you are giving everything to the internet like we're living in 3020 and playing along with you. You're on another level brother. On your first startup whatever values you had in there made the engine idle really smoothly. I am willing to wager that when you start it with the copied cam profiles it will idle roughly. I can't wait to see where this goes.
This is the coolest build going on TH-cam right now. I'm excited to see how this all pans out. The channel has 40k subscribers right now... If this free-valve engine works out the way it's looking like it will right now, this channel is going to blow up quickly... You will definitely deserve it... Great job!!!
Dude mind blown. Absolutely no hands on experience with anything involved but I love the free valve technology..blows my mind your doing this in the garage 👍👍👍
Your engineering process is an inspiration, wish I had mastery of CAD and data manipulation like you! So many ideas but not skilled enough to pull it off
Fusion 360 is still free for personal use. "Free startup and personal licenses for Fusion 360 are valid for one year but can be renewed annually". They have limited certain features on the free version but these should be fairly insignificant for someone learning CAD.
Ya! I’ve been waiting for years for it to get developed into regular cars. It can’t be that original of an idea anyways, I’m sure people have thought of doing these types of valves for years but didn’t because it’s a little too crazy.
@@ebouwman034 I seriously don’t see the dilemma. Like they are relatively simple compared to even regular valves and cam designs so I don’t know why it’s taking so long to adopt. Is there like a lot of electrical energy they use or something? I don’t get it, these videos make it look almost too easy 😅
Dude this is really cool what you're doing, I really like this series and i hope you the best in the future, brining a tech from a car that costs millions into a cheap car is amazing, great work!
I was very interested when i saw the freevavle in my recommended, something i want to do myself! I'm going to watch this series through keep posting man! subscribed and turn on all notifications
Same here, got your first video suggested last night and was instantly hooked. Your commitment to extraordinary projects is inspiring! Please keep us updated, hope your channel grows a lot so you have the opportunity to put more time into this. For the record I vote LS just because I'm a V8 guy but I get that 4banger will be less work. But hey you could do just one bank of the LS, keep the other one run by the cam and pushrods😂
@@Quagmire17000 LS is my vote as well because he could possibly do only one cylinder, run the engine at idle and slowly bring his cams to life. As soon as he has that cylinder up to power he can install an 8 cylinder kit using the data off the test cylinder. Overhead valve engines have lots of oil that would have to be controlled (maybe using dummy cam journals) and water pump, some oil pump and balance shaft drive issues once the belt is removed. This guy would just redesign a belt system to handle it of course but it is more work. The LS already has the cam and crank signals.
@@Quagmire17000 me too, been contiplating using arduino computer on my type 3 VW dunebuggy with eventually my bolt on RayJay turbo for VW's also aditional hydrogen generator boost I built for gasoline combustion efficiency (it adds more explosion mass & because it burns all the fuel in chamber there's less heat produced & more power) correction Oxyhydrogen (browns gass) from H2O...
I've been a mechanic for about 50 years now. One thing I know for sure, there is nothing like having data. I have some good running sbc and sbf cams stored, numbered and tagged because there was no way to know what the grind is. Some cams saved and not labeled are unknown and basically not used because they are reground factory cams. That program you use or wrote along with a universal electronic depth gauge (like on a magnetic base or something like that), to connect directly to a computer of any kind would be very sellable. You could even add a set of "V Blocks" with precision roller bearings in the lower part of the V to set the cam in while on a bench. The person would only have to calculate rocker geometry to get correct valve lift, duration and valve overlap. A mechanic can easily mount a metal plate to an aluminum cylinder head to use a magnetic base device to read directly off the top of the valve. And, when a guy buys a new cam he can map it on a bench before installing, naming the cam grind with a part# and manufacturer. If you added a crankshaft trigger wheel and sensor as a kit he could sync his cam with his crank even in a flat head. Honestly nothing like having data. EDIT: Thank you for these videos. It really wakes up the mind to so many possibilities
I am an Engineer. I think your next step ti to put it on an LS or LT GM engine on two opposing cylinders. then you could compare the Free valve controlled cylinders to the original Cam operated cylinders. the Data you collect would be invaluable. P.PS FORD owns the patent on non-mechanically actuated valves.
My suggestion is to consider what your goals are with the free valve project because we all make the same mistake of working too many projects at the same time and end up burning out. If you are going to incorporate the tech into and engine by eliminating the cam it only makes sense to choose the Chevy since it only has 1 cam and less valves to work on per cylinder which would make the entire project easier. Also if something happens and parts get damaged they will be far cheaper to replace and a lot easier to get. As you said you already have a Corvette which would be the perfect test mule and that garage doesn't look like it can hold many more projects so I would work with what you got and use the money for tooling and parts rather than another project car. Great video.
As an engineering student and an NA miata owner, there is nothing more I would love to see than you working on a miata! Learned all my mechanic skills working on that little thing and have never regretted owning it. Given the simplicity of the miata's engine, amount of cylinders, and potential - I'd say you're best off with the miata! You'd probably be better off with a 1.8L just because it's ability to hold power and the fact that the engine is a bit more refined for the chassis it's in. I'm extremely interested to see how you tackle the timing, fuel injection, and programming of the car. You'll definitely want to look into an aftermarket ECU. TheCarPassionChannel has a pile of miata information on it, tuning included, if you need any sort of guidance.
Holy crap love this channel basically I'm clueless to all the electronics. But been building motors most my life. Please continue with your little lawn mower motor before yo move on to the car stuff. Thanks 100% again great vids
Another BP05 vote. You're really on to something. If you're able to simplify the Free-Valve set up to where it's a matter of designing the hard parts for all the popular engines out there, you have a tremendous financial gain to make. It will redefine the world of "hot rodding"
New to the channel and I like what you are doing 👍👍. Luv your sense of humour and your engineering skills. I didn't see your bio anywhere but you've obviously gone beyond middle school and are very curious with a mix of history, science and art. Good stuff. FYI a sheet of plywood with some 2x2 around the edge and a sheet of poly will contain most of the mess when doing a tear down. Then use your wet vac to suck it all up. A shallow pool for oil ,antifreeze and whatever.
This is next level stuff. I'm scratching my head working on adapting a Megasquirt 2 to my my 1975 2.3L Ford motor. Meanwhile, you're prototyping Freevalve technology.
Interesting content for sure. I am interested to see you move past the traditional profiles and experiment with profiles not possible on rotating cams. Plus RPM based profiles, like VTEC but infinitely controllable.
Man I really appreciate what you do. I somehow see myself in you if I was not busy with university work. Keep your videos coming! Miata would be great by the way for the freevalve setup.
This is so cool, Id go with a car with a non-interference engine. The Miata 1.6L and 1.8L fit the bill. Also, with the DT signal you record its probably best you do something like linear interpolation. I think MATLAB can do that for you. GL with the build, can't wait for the next episode.
Seeing a lot of votes for the Miata, but I'd think it would be easier to do this on a pushrod engine than a DOHC. I would recommend a four-cylinder two-valve-per-cylinder pushrod engine to start out, that would be simplest to work with. I'd think this would be easier to mount on a pushrod engine, and you could potentially leave some of the pushrods/rockers in place so it can be partially freevalve partially conventional, start out just on one cylinder and see how it holds up, and if it fails (it certainly will a few times as you experiment) the conventional cylinders will get you home. My (heavily biased) suggestion would be a VW Bug engine - common and simple pushrod four-banger. But before even thinking about any of that, get it running well and reliably on the Predator, and get quite a few miles on it, or for that matter just leave it running for hours at a time (sorry neighbors...) to test longevity, ensure it doesn't die in the first few minutes.
This is amazing. Wanted to do this ever since I saw Koenigseg's demo on The Drive channel. Just a suggestion, you could export the data as a .csv or even .ods (csv and ods are supported by all spreadsheet processors, so even if someone does not have MS Excel they could always use something like OpenOffice or LibreOffice which are open source).
Nice work on the mapping tool! This project needs to be 'super-sized' for an LS engine, since they're so plentiful and easy to come by. Once you get your heads and valve train worked out, you can concentrate on making it do whatever you want as far as 'profile feature sets' for various throttle and load conditions. If you really wanted to get creative, design a 4 valve head that works similar to Koenigsegg's setup.😁👍
Yeah you never know. No sense in losing your own work. If I were him I may even go through every video and edit the word out most likely with something cheeky
It wouldn't be valveless - maybe camless though. From what I've heard Koenisegg is pretty chill about stuff like this, would probably be really excited to see the DIY community going for this. He seems like the sort of person who would watch from the background then see if the DIY community comes up with any cool ideas with it that he could then incorporate. Still that's a gamble though. And if there was concern about this, it probably would be more about the idea than the name - the patent rather than trademark, and there's probably no way around that as this is pretty blatantly copying the idea. Just hope they'll be chill about it.
@@murdurer333 True. But I hope he can start selling it - I'd really like to see him (or someone) make kits to put this on any engine. And where do I sign up to get the first production VW Bug freevalve kit?
@@quillmaurer6563 Koenisegg might not care, but as long as he uses their name they are forced to care. Legally speaking, stealing the idea is a lot more murky than stealing the name. The name is an open and shut case and if Koenisegg wants to keep that name they have to go after him as soon as this gets big. He's already putting the plans out for free and calling it freevalve. I will be absolutely amazed if he doesn't get smacked down for this. It's moved beyond just making it for himself.
Well, youtube recommended me this video, and, not gonna lie i didn't expected anything, but your project is very interesting. It made for a great video.
Make your life easier, Miata have half of complications, I mean cylinders... Keep the content quality, it just rocks. And your engineering is just amazing
the second red bump is the decompressor it’s there just to start the engine i would remove that from your graft because it will not run good with that in
When fitting to an automotive engine, be sure to get airflow and airmass data before the change over. The biggest advantage of the camless system is turning the valve timing into a square wave.
A Miata would be a good choice. You can use a megasquirt compute to totally control fuel/spark. You could do that on pretty much any engine but Miatas are a very common use so you wouldn't be blazing that trail. This is a really cool project and got my subscription.
You should definitely get the Miata since you seem to be leaning towards it the most! Do what makes you happy bruh! Then drop an LS1 in it to build the free valve setup for in order to make US happy too!! Best of both worlds. Besides, the LS1 has been put into so many different platforms, your project will reach the masses. I've never seen anyone crossbreeding a Mata motor into anything.
This might sound strange, but I think this might be a popular mod for engines used in racing lawnmowers. In the USLMRA, mower engines are usually cam-in-block which really limits what can be done with the valves, but the cylinder heads can be modified in every way imaginable as long as they're the OEM heads that's being worked on. Combined with an aftermarket flywheel with adjustable ignition timing there's real tuning potential, even more so when using a SmartCarb which self-adjusts to maintain the optimum AFR.
You should do the Miata. The 1,6 and 1,8 in the NA & NB are non-interference engines, so if something in the valve timing goes wrong it won't bend a valve or smash a piston.
The stock cam profile will be a good starting point, but I had another idea. As it sits it's probably difficult to do variable valve lift as the solenoids are just on/off. So what if you just measure the acceleration of the valve as it opens and closes with the solenoids. Once you know what that profile is like you can essentially map cam profiles using those fixed ramp rates. That way at higher RPM you can use longer durations than at lower RPM, or even vary the pulse width to do throttleless operation. As for engine, I vote LS because that will by far give you the biggest splash for your channel and profile. If you can put a freevalve thing on a 4.8 and spin it to 8 or 9k rpm you'll be on every publication around the internet.
If you find you want to upgrade to some nice sensors to track, something like MA3 magnetic absolute encoders would probably fit the bill. pretty small, high resolution etc.
Do the Miata. Less parts to make, enough height (I hope) and the real benefit of picking a small engine is that you should be able to raise the red line a lot, this is where you will get a lot of your power. Get this right and it could be a real screamer!
Isn't valve float still an issue? From what I know, you need a built engine, with strong crankshaft, better valve springs, and maybe even stronger conrods. Adding freevlave may free up airflow, but what's the limit of the motor physically?
This is awesome man! vids are getting better and better. Be careful using the word Freevalve in this context, Koenigsegg does indeed own the rights and I'd hate to see you end up in legal trouble. Not implying Koenigsegg is that kind of company, but you never know!
I hope you’re planning on turning those “sine wave” profiles into more of a square wave. I didn’t hear you talk about it, if you did. Keeping the sine wave, standard cam profile will deliver the exact same performance as the cam/push rod/lifter combination. Using a square wave profile will deliver the absolute most performance possible with standard valves. Losing that overlap will help too, unless you plan on going forced induction(it’s possible on these engines!).
Quick tip. Having so many magnets/openings in the timing wheel is going to create a lot of "noise" in the timing system. Most likely the issue you had with your initial trial of the optical sensor setup. You should be able to get away with using only one magnet/slot and adjust your code to work with just the one input signal per RPM. I would continue using the magnetic pickup but install the sensor over the magnet that's already installed in the flywheel for the ignition system. If you can get it to work it would really simplify your setup. Otherwise continue using the wheel you made with just one magnet in it.
I love the idea behind this project! A suggestion would be to add an electronicly regulated air presssure valve so you can control the lift of the valve, or even try to use the valvelift as a throttle control (like BMW valvetronic). Anyway, if you need help programing stuff you could hit me up
The small secondary opening of the exhaust valve is likely a decompression feature on the cam used to aid in starting. Typically a flyweight that opens and returns the cam to normal profile.
Are those 1:1 rocker arms? That will determine your actual valve lift needed in respect to the cam lobes. Figure you're aware of this and just didn't mention it in the video.
Now you can do variable valve timing on the fly without a custom cam or other weird engineering. Not to mention you can also optimize for low demand mapping, high demand, or even cylinder shut off. I'd say the most difficult part will be determining your torque curve for a given "cam" profile.
Having control of the valves lets you close the cylinder and start it without an electric starter. That might not work on a 4-cylinder, but should on any V8. A highly accurate (and no-touch) way to track the position of the valve while it's running would be to use a optical encoder sensor and barcode on a stub mounted to the valve. TDC/TDB can be registered with the data stream. Having this data, you can then optimize the profile at different RPMs. If you have control over other things like fuel delivery and ignition, you could really do some crazy things like up the compression ratio to 10:1 without detonation, some serious compression braking, and who knows what else.
For improved resolution over those potentiometers, check the hall effect sensors and the way Tom used them in this video; th-cam.com/video/SgqflcHBTwc/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=TomStanton Also - using magnets means no parts to wear out if you were to use them in a running engine...
Awesome stuff. I really like the tool, I don't think you would have dreamed of doing something like that if it wasn't for 3D printing. For the Data you should use CSV. It stands for comma separated values and is really just that. If you create a text file, wirte A, B, C in the first line, D, E, F in the 2nd line and save it as a *.csv file, you can open it in Excel, LO Calc, Google Sheets or whatever and the values will be put in the respective rows and columns. If you need to use a comma in the data you can escape it or use \t (tab) as a value separator.
Huge thank you for all of the support recently- I'm still answering emails and comments, it just takes me a bit to get through them all. Thanks!
Also if you haven't subscribed please do, It really helps!
Consider making a patreon! And i vote miata!!
@@jamesandonian7829 I would sign up for that
That's a pretty nice tool you made for measuring the cam timing events. reminds me of a cam doctor. Great idea to use that for programming your controller but unless the engine has a 1:1 rocker arm ratio you will have to multiply your measurements by the stock rocker arm ratio to give you the actual valve lift instead of the cam lift. Very different measurements.
Very clever, Wes. Good job. Looking forward to seeing what extra tricks you’ll be able to do with the HF engine. No instantaneous stop/start, obviously but CVVT should be fun. Just an idea to think about ( You seem like the kinda guy who’d be interested and might get it running ) - Laser ignition? Perhaps using a hologram window to seed multiple flame fronts simultaneously? ;-D
I'm on a page on Facebook call The Predator 212 owners group. And man we would love to see ya on the page, lot of guys on the page build these things up to 20+ hp rippers, and i know alot of the guys might be curious what you're doing cause maybe it could be a soulution for some serious power, or being creative about it. You perfect it and sell it as a kit. Either way man would love to have ya on the group
Miata. Non-interference engine. Less stuff to break when you’re in R&D.
My thoughts exactly.
The Honda D Series Non Vtec engines are way more reliable and are non interference engines as well and you have a smaller head to worry about, and it only has one cam🤣 (most of them anyway, if you overlook the D16A8 from the ED9 CRX)
Does it even matter if it is a non-interference engine? When the self-designed free-valve opens fully right befor TDC I gues the valve will be dead.
@@HansBrodiAutomotive a non interference engine is easier, because you have less to worry about...
@@THEBOZZ1801 Since when has most D-series' been non-inteference engines. I understood that they are interference ones, atleast the ones that have VTEC
don't forget that the second tiny lift event on the exhaust can is only at very low rpm for compression relief to aid starting and it is controlled mechanically on the cam to "go away" at around 300 rpm for running conditions.
^^^^^ Commenting in hopes he sees this
Ah, that explains it - was wondering what that was. I've seen that mechanism on lawn mowers, a tiny cam on the cam itself connected to a flyweight, above a certain RPM it swings away and the mini-cam turns to be flush with the big cam.
Decompression?
Bsically a decompression system built into the camshaft lobe and some sort of simple mechanical inertia weights that turns off the decompression system after certain engine rpm...
I came to the comments hoping to find out what was going on there - thanks!
Your ability to execute on your out of the box ideas is really impressive. When I started watching, I expected you to be a crackpot based on how out there your ideas were. So happy to see that you are really good at this. You're an artist that paints in engineering tools. I think when you get your Miata going with programmable valves, your channel is going to blow up!
"You're an artist that paints in engineering tools." That might be the nicest thing anyone has ever said about me hah.
Do the Miata. This stuff is going to be hard enough without doing it all twice on a V8. It´s just a proof of concept anyway. And btw, I´m amazed at how matter of factly you deal with this stuff. It´s rocket science to me! EDIT: Four valve heads give you more scope to play about with things like shutting down two of the valves for say fuel economy.
Thanks! That was my thought with the Miata as well. 4 is easier (and cheaper!) than 8.
Hell yeah, freevalve yata, here we go!!!
Well, 4 cylinder with 4 valve each, or 8 cylinder with 2 valves each both ends up at 16.. But I think a inline 4 is nice and easy to acces the valvetrain, so it's still a smarter choice IMO.
@@WesleyKagan I would have to agree with miata simply because the progress will go along a lot quicker. That being said, I would highly suggest trying it on an LS at some point to target a different/bigger audience.
I'd think the DOHC configuration of the Miata would be much harder to work with than a pushrod design. Harder to fit things together, and you'd have to be all-or-nothing, couldn't have some cylinders run normally and others freevalve simply by removing or installing pushrods/rockers. And as others say, the LS and Miata both have the same number of valves. I'd suggest an older pushrod two-valve-per-cylinder four banger. Also something older that isn't emissions-regulated, as there's no way something modified like this could stay emissions-compliant on top of everything else. But before any of that, just get it running really well, reliably, and long-lasting on the Predator.
If you put this on a Miata that will be AWESOME!
That's the plan! Searching for one now.
Team dev a miata kit!
Gingum would you test it out when its finished?
Brilliant! Love to see this, especially coming from a garage. The Smokey Yunicks are still alive.
Aim to put the free valve on the miata. You'll thank yourself later when you need to do actually start work on the motor
This man would become the Miata GOD
And only half the amount of cylinders, although the same amount of valves.
Can't wait for more content from you. This is the first time getting into the nitty gritty of builds like that. And I can't imagine a better person that you showing me how it's done.
The fact you are so open about sharing what you are doing with the goal of making it the best thing it can be to then also be so open to ideas by any design means necessary, is admirable and very refreshing. Nice.
Got to love channels where a guy in a shop just tinkers rather than trying to sell you crap. Awesome content!
The rockers have a ratio built into them. Usually between 1.5 - 1.7. Just figured youd want to figure that into your cam specs for valve lift.
i think it might be a 1.2. aftermarket ones are 1.3 but don't quote me on it
He should be mapping the valve side of the Rockers in reality.
Yup exactly my thought... He can add the final multiplier number anyways afterward.. but atleast having the multiplier from beginning, will help the engine works like its from factory spec (or slightly from factory for better performance)
I don’t think it matters to him, his design doesn’t have variable valve positioning so all the data he really needs what the cam is doing at X degrees of engine rotation. Free valve will make the “cam profile” a series of plateaus vs rolling hills of the traditional cam.
@@jamescharron4535 The only problem with plateaus is there's some fairly complex voodoo that happens with overlap. Worse is the piston affects it, so he'll probably end up playing with overlap the most. Cool thing is he can essentially give it VVT, advance for low speed and retard for high speed.
How have a lived in AZ with this absolute genius my entire life and never heard of him. You’re a legend and I admire your ability to create and learn so much
Never heard him say he was from here! Noice
Another awesome video! The only flaw in your rig is the Predator camshaft has a compression release mechanism on the cam. Your recorded profile is also recording the compression release "bump". The compression release mechanism is controlled by centrifugal force and once the engine is spinning the "bump" on the exhaust cam lobe is disengaged.
Very interesting, I was wondering about that. I plan on omitting it from the final map.
@@WesleyKagan with electronic mapping you can include it at start, remove it at run revs, you can go from a stock cam to full race spec, you can be totally variable throughout the rev range and achieve profiles impossible running off an actual cam
@@davidp8157 Actually that's brilliant. These predator engines are tough to start without the compression release.
If I may do a suggestion, get yourself a chest mic 🎤 it would greatly help even more for the channel to be awesome! Keep up the good work
I love your enthusiasm for engineering. If your work can find a way to replicate and document koenigsegg-like improvements on common motors, in your garage, you won't have to ask strangers what you should power. The world will beat a path to your door, and you will have the means to make your own supercars out of anything. Keep plugging away, you'll get it!!!
I've been waiting since Freevalve's announcement to see someone work with it privately!
As the meme goes
I want freevalve
We've got freevalve at home
I have literally been dreaming about putting the Freevalve system in my NA Miata for months! I'm so happy that this channel showed up in my recommendations. Keep up the awesome work!
Thanks! That seems to be the winning vote, so I guess I start the hunt for a NA Miata!
Miata gets it done, LS gets your phone exploding with enthusiasts and a possible aftermarket motorsport empire.
I love how much you're going through the how you do what you do. Visualizing data helps so much.
im now amazed that someone actually went ahead and got into rhe freevalve idea, ive been drooling on it since its pretty dope but it didnt make sense the way that it was originally designed (pneumatically actuated, hydraulically locked) and honestly i really wanna see this in a diesel engine.
im definitely subscribing and imma have my ear to the ground, im not even half as good as you at coding nor engine thinkering but still in for the ride, mad props!
I don’t care what shirt you wear or what your garage looks like. You’re making some kickass tech and that’s what really matters. Don’t let the negative comments get you down. You’re doing great!
very excited to see this. One thing to remember is that the cam opens the valves gradually because that's all it can do. With the freevalve approach you can open the cam much faster (at least at slower RPM). The only limit is if you have an interference engine where a fully opened cam will hit the piston.
Some of the valve overlap timing is compensation for the fact that the cam takes time to open the valve, some is to help flush the combustion gasses out more completely.
Love it. Its good to see that you arent stuck on old designs, and dont mind making a few paper weights on your way to making something great. Prototyping is a big pain in the ass, but to some, me included, its fun and we do it on our free time.
I really love that you are giving everything to the internet like we're living in 3020 and playing along with you. You're on another level brother. On your first startup whatever values you had in there made the engine idle really smoothly. I am willing to wager that when you start it with the copied cam profiles it will idle roughly. I can't wait to see where this goes.
This is the coolest build going on TH-cam right now. I'm excited to see how this all pans out. The channel has 40k subscribers right now... If this free-valve engine works out the way it's looking like it will right now, this channel is going to blow up quickly... You will definitely deserve it... Great job!!!
I'm very excited to watch this develop! DONT STOP!
Dude mind blown. Absolutely no hands on experience with anything involved but I love the free valve technology..blows my mind your doing this in the garage 👍👍👍
Your engineering process is an inspiration, wish I had mastery of CAD and data manipulation like you! So many ideas but not skilled enough to pull it off
try autodesk fusion 360, it's free for personal use
@@bartomiejz151 I've been learning FreeCAD , lots of good resources on TH-cam , fusion is no longer free
Fusion 360 is still free for personal use. "Free startup and personal licenses for Fusion 360 are valid for one year but can be renewed annually". They have limited certain features on the free version but these should be fairly insignificant for someone learning CAD.
These FreeValves have been teased to us for years but if Koenigsegg wont make it for consumers Im happy to learn more about it from you!
Ya! I’ve been waiting for years for it to get developed into regular cars. It can’t be that original of an idea anyways, I’m sure people have thought of doing these types of valves for years but didn’t because it’s a little too crazy.
@@ebouwman034 I seriously don’t see the dilemma. Like they are relatively simple compared to even regular valves and cam designs so I don’t know why it’s taking so long to adopt. Is there like a lot of electrical energy they use or something? I don’t get it, these videos make it look almost too easy 😅
Dude this is really cool what you're doing, I really like this series and i hope you the best in the future, brining a tech from a car that costs millions into a cheap car is amazing, great work!
Your channel should grow exponentially within the next year. Best of luck and this is already becoming one of my favorite channels!
I was very interested when i saw the freevavle in my recommended, something i want to do myself! I'm going to watch this series through keep posting man!
subscribed and turn on all notifications
Thanks for the support!
Same here, got your first video suggested last night and was instantly hooked. Your commitment to extraordinary projects is inspiring! Please keep us updated, hope your channel grows a lot so you have the opportunity to put more time into this. For the record I vote LS just because I'm a V8 guy but I get that 4banger will be less work. But hey you could do just one bank of the LS, keep the other one run by the cam and pushrods😂
@@Quagmire17000 LS is my vote as well because he could possibly do only one cylinder, run the engine at idle and slowly bring his cams to life. As soon as he has that cylinder up to power he can install an 8 cylinder kit using the data off the test cylinder. Overhead valve engines have lots of oil that would have to be controlled (maybe using dummy cam journals) and water pump, some oil pump and balance shaft drive issues once the belt is removed. This guy would just redesign a belt system to handle it of course but it is more work. The LS already has the cam and crank signals.
@@Ed70Nova427 very good point. Ls might be less work after all when looking at the details you mention
@@Quagmire17000 me too, been contiplating using arduino computer on my type 3 VW dunebuggy with eventually my bolt on RayJay turbo for VW's
also aditional hydrogen generator boost I built for gasoline combustion efficiency (it adds more explosion mass & because it burns all the fuel in chamber there's less heat produced & more power) correction Oxyhydrogen (browns gass) from H2O...
I've been a mechanic for about 50 years now. One thing I know for sure, there is nothing like having data. I have some good running sbc and sbf cams stored, numbered and tagged because there was no way to know what the grind is. Some cams saved and not labeled are unknown and basically not used because they are reground factory cams. That program you use or wrote along with a universal electronic depth gauge (like on a magnetic base or something like that), to connect directly to a computer of any kind would be very sellable. You could even add a set of "V Blocks" with precision roller bearings in the lower part of the V to set the cam in while on a bench. The person would only have to calculate rocker geometry to get correct valve lift, duration and valve overlap. A mechanic can easily mount a metal plate to an aluminum cylinder head to use a magnetic base device to read directly off the top of the valve. And, when a guy buys a new cam he can map it on a bench before installing, naming the cam grind with a part# and manufacturer. If you added a crankshaft trigger wheel and sensor as a kit he could sync his cam with his crank even in a flat head. Honestly nothing like having data.
EDIT: Thank you for these videos. It really wakes up the mind to so many possibilities
I am an Engineer. I think your next step ti to put it on an LS or LT GM engine on two opposing cylinders. then you could compare the Free valve controlled cylinders to the original Cam operated cylinders. the Data you collect would be invaluable. P.PS FORD owns the patent on non-mechanically actuated valves.
My suggestion is to consider what your goals are with the free valve project because we all make the same mistake of working too many projects at the same time and end up burning out. If you are going to incorporate the tech into and engine by eliminating the cam it only makes sense to choose the Chevy since it only has 1 cam and less valves to work on per cylinder which would make the entire project easier. Also if something happens and parts get damaged they will be far cheaper to replace and a lot easier to get. As you said you already have a Corvette which would be the perfect test mule and that garage doesn't look like it can hold many more projects so I would work with what you got and use the money for tooling and parts rather than another project car. Great video.
Love how ur tackling the hurdles ur finding in ur pathway just keep going ur doing great!
As an engineering student and an NA miata owner, there is nothing more I would love to see than you working on a miata! Learned all my mechanic skills working on that little thing and have never regretted owning it.
Given the simplicity of the miata's engine, amount of cylinders, and potential - I'd say you're best off with the miata! You'd probably be better off with a 1.8L just because it's ability to hold power and the fact that the engine is a bit more refined for the chassis it's in.
I'm extremely interested to see how you tackle the timing, fuel injection, and programming of the car. You'll definitely want to look into an aftermarket ECU. TheCarPassionChannel has a pile of miata information on it, tuning included, if you need any sort of guidance.
Holy crap love this channel basically I'm clueless to all the electronics. But been building motors most my life. Please continue with your little lawn mower motor before yo move on to the car stuff. Thanks 100% again great vids
Brilliantly done! I wish I had a next-door neighbor like you. Keep wrenching!
Your cam mapping tool makes the one I built look very primitive. You are a master of design.
Another BP05 vote. You're really on to something. If you're able to simplify the Free-Valve set up to where it's a matter of designing the hard parts for all the popular engines out there, you have a tremendous financial gain to make. It will redefine the world of "hot rodding"
I'm hoping to tear into an BP05 tomorrow, It's officially Miata time.
This channel is blowing my mind dude, learning so much. Keep up the great work!
This is immense! thank you for doing this, and the answer is obviously always Miata
New to the channel and I like what you are doing 👍👍. Luv your sense of humour and your engineering skills. I didn't see your bio anywhere but you've obviously gone beyond middle school and are very curious with a mix of history, science and art. Good stuff. FYI a sheet of plywood with some 2x2 around the edge and a sheet of poly will contain most of the mess when doing a tear down. Then use your wet vac to suck it all up. A shallow pool for oil ,antifreeze and whatever.
This is next level stuff. I'm scratching my head working on adapting a Megasquirt 2 to my my 1975 2.3L Ford motor. Meanwhile, you're prototyping Freevalve technology.
Honestly MS isn't the easiest car mod either, I did a MS3 Pro on the PorscheCart
Interesting content for sure. I am interested to see you move past the traditional profiles and experiment with profiles not possible on rotating cams. Plus RPM based profiles, like VTEC but infinitely controllable.
I've got a 2004 Subaru WRX that needs new heads sitting in my garage. If you want it for your freevalve testing just hit me up!
That would be righteous
This sounds epic
An EJ18 or EJ22 would be non interference...
Would it fit in the engine bay XD. Wide motors already
Except pulling the engine if it needs to be redone
Man I really appreciate what you do. I somehow see myself in you if I was not busy with university work. Keep your videos coming! Miata would be great by the way for the freevalve setup.
This is so cool, Id go with a car with a non-interference engine. The Miata 1.6L and 1.8L fit the bill. Also, with the DT signal you record its probably best you do something like linear interpolation. I think MATLAB can do that for you. GL with the build, can't wait for the next episode.
You are doing something amazing pls keep going and dont ever think of stopping
Seeing a lot of votes for the Miata, but I'd think it would be easier to do this on a pushrod engine than a DOHC. I would recommend a four-cylinder two-valve-per-cylinder pushrod engine to start out, that would be simplest to work with. I'd think this would be easier to mount on a pushrod engine, and you could potentially leave some of the pushrods/rockers in place so it can be partially freevalve partially conventional, start out just on one cylinder and see how it holds up, and if it fails (it certainly will a few times as you experiment) the conventional cylinders will get you home. My (heavily biased) suggestion would be a VW Bug engine - common and simple pushrod four-banger. But before even thinking about any of that, get it running well and reliably on the Predator, and get quite a few miles on it, or for that matter just leave it running for hours at a time (sorry neighbors...) to test longevity, ensure it doesn't die in the first few minutes.
This is amazing. Wanted to do this ever since I saw Koenigseg's demo on The Drive channel. Just a suggestion, you could export the data as a .csv or even .ods (csv and ods are supported by all spreadsheet processors, so even if someone does not have MS Excel they could always use something like OpenOffice or LibreOffice which are open source).
Excellent video.
Can't wait to see you get this working on a car engine.
Keep up the good work
LS Miata after perfecting things on only 4 cylinders first? Thanks for letting us look over your shoulder!
Nice work on the mapping tool! This project needs to be 'super-sized' for an LS engine, since they're so plentiful and easy to come by. Once you get your heads and valve train worked out, you can concentrate on making it do whatever you want as far as 'profile feature sets' for various throttle and load conditions. If you really wanted to get creative, design a 4 valve head that works similar to Koenigsegg's setup.😁👍
Your a magician. If I had money I would support your work in any way I can.
love it, can't wait for more. miata seems like best option but a midengine toyota mr2 would be awesome!
Awesome use of arduino. Can't wait to see the next videos!
Consider calling it valveless design or something like that so you don't have a B is for build situations with Eleanor.
Yeah you never know. No sense in losing your own work. If I were him I may even go through every video and edit the word out most likely with something cheeky
It wouldn't be valveless - maybe camless though. From what I've heard Koenisegg is pretty chill about stuff like this, would probably be really excited to see the DIY community going for this. He seems like the sort of person who would watch from the background then see if the DIY community comes up with any cool ideas with it that he could then incorporate. Still that's a gamble though. And if there was concern about this, it probably would be more about the idea than the name - the patent rather than trademark, and there's probably no way around that as this is pretty blatantly copying the idea. Just hope they'll be chill about it.
Patent is not a concern as long as he's not selling anything. You're allowed to build patented stuff for yourself.
@@murdurer333 True. But I hope he can start selling it - I'd really like to see him (or someone) make kits to put this on any engine. And where do I sign up to get the first production VW Bug freevalve kit?
@@quillmaurer6563 Koenisegg might not care, but as long as he uses their name they are forced to care. Legally speaking, stealing the idea is a lot more murky than stealing the name. The name is an open and shut case and if Koenisegg wants to keep that name they have to go after him as soon as this gets big.
He's already putting the plans out for free and calling it freevalve. I will be absolutely amazed if he doesn't get smacked down for this. It's moved beyond just making it for himself.
Well, youtube recommended me this video, and, not gonna lie i didn't expected anything, but your project is very interesting. It made for a great video.
Keep doing what you're doing, your channel is definitely going to blow just need to wait until you get blessed by the algorithm!
"You wouldn't download a camshaft" is the first thing that ran through my head looking at the software copy of the cam profile.
Make your life easier, Miata have half of complications, I mean cylinders... Keep the content quality, it just rocks. And your engineering is just amazing
Miata would be perfect! I own a ‘90 Miata and have always wanted to incorporate Koenigsegg’s FreeValve tech somehow. Love your videos
Interesting project; one suggestion, replace the pots with TPS units, they are Hall-effect and will give you a clean, and reliable signal.
the second red bump is the decompressor it’s there just to start the engine i would remove that from your graft because it will not run good with that in
Here's more info on that decompression for starting for anyone that cares.
www.motorcyclepowersportsnews.com/engine-decompression-systems/
This is such a cool project. As an NA Miata owner, I would love to see you try this on one. Subscribed!!
I'd love to see a LS-based freevalve just to see how much power it can really make, but any miata is also a good option.
The small bumps on your red map are the probably the compression release for starting the engine
When fitting to an automotive engine, be sure to get airflow and airmass data before the change over. The biggest advantage of the camless system is turning the valve timing into a square wave.
A Miata would be a good choice. You can use a megasquirt compute to totally control fuel/spark. You could do that on pretty much any engine but Miatas are a very common use so you wouldn't be blazing that trail. This is a really cool project and got my subscription.
You should definitely get the Miata since you seem to be leaning towards it the most! Do what makes you happy bruh! Then drop an LS1 in it to build the free valve setup for in order to make US happy too!! Best of both worlds. Besides, the LS1 has been put into so many different platforms, your project will reach the masses. I've never seen anyone crossbreeding a Mata motor into anything.
This might sound strange, but I think this might be a popular mod for engines used in racing lawnmowers. In the USLMRA, mower engines are usually cam-in-block which really limits what can be done with the valves, but the cylinder heads can be modified in every way imaginable as long as they're the OEM heads that's being worked on. Combined with an aftermarket flywheel with adjustable ignition timing there's real tuning potential, even more so when using a SmartCarb which self-adjusts to maintain the optimum AFR.
You should do the Miata. The 1,6 and 1,8 in the NA & NB are non-interference engines, so if something in the valve timing goes wrong it won't bend a valve or smash a piston.
Yeah, that's a huge benefit.
@@WesleyKagan Also, if you need any measurements to get you started before you find a car, I'll be happy to take them off my NA.
The stock cam profile will be a good starting point, but I had another idea. As it sits it's probably difficult to do variable valve lift as the solenoids are just on/off. So what if you just measure the acceleration of the valve as it opens and closes with the solenoids. Once you know what that profile is like you can essentially map cam profiles using those fixed ramp rates. That way at higher RPM you can use longer durations than at lower RPM, or even vary the pulse width to do throttleless operation. As for engine, I vote LS because that will by far give you the biggest splash for your channel and profile. If you can put a freevalve thing on a 4.8 and spin it to 8 or 9k rpm you'll be on every publication around the internet.
The random stuff found on TH-cam. Really interesting work. Subscribed.
Your videos are fascinating. Please post more!
If you find you want to upgrade to some nice sensors to track, something like MA3 magnetic absolute encoders would probably fit the bill. pretty small, high resolution etc.
Do the Miata. Less parts to make, enough height (I hope) and the real benefit of picking a small engine is that you should be able to raise the red line a lot, this is where you will get a lot of your power. Get this right and it could be a real screamer!
Isn't valve float still an issue? From what I know, you need a built engine, with strong crankshaft, better valve springs, and maybe even stronger conrods. Adding freevlave may free up airflow, but what's the limit of the motor physically?
This is absolutely AMAZING! One of the best videos I have watched in 2020!
This is awesome man! vids are getting better and better. Be careful using the word Freevalve in this context, Koenigsegg does indeed own the rights and I'd hate to see you end up in legal trouble. Not implying Koenigsegg is that kind of company, but you never know!
Awesome! I really like the cam making tool! That could come in handy for sooo much stuff
I hope you’re planning on turning those “sine wave” profiles into more of a square wave. I didn’t hear you talk about it, if you did.
Keeping the sine wave, standard cam profile will deliver the exact same performance as the cam/push rod/lifter combination.
Using a square wave profile will deliver the absolute most performance possible with standard valves. Losing that overlap will help too, unless you plan on going forced induction(it’s possible on these engines!).
This so so cool. Will be great to square off those profiles. No mechanical system will equal it.
The crank shaft on the mx6 is well balanced and Porsche had a hand in its design. Basically the same as the Ford probe GT.
Quick tip. Having so many magnets/openings in the timing wheel is going to create a lot of "noise" in the timing system. Most likely the issue you had with your initial trial of the optical sensor setup. You should be able to get away with using only one magnet/slot and adjust your code to work with just the one input signal per RPM. I would continue using the magnetic pickup but install the sensor over the magnet that's already installed in the flywheel for the ignition system. If you can get it to work it would really simplify your setup. Otherwise continue using the wheel you made with just one magnet in it.
What an awsome project. I hope you follow through with small engine to completion also
Miata, super cheap and easy to get, and would be perfect for that small little engine.
Great job Wes!! I vote for the Miata as well.
I love the idea behind this project! A suggestion would be to add an electronicly regulated air presssure valve so you can control the lift of the valve, or even try to use the valvelift as a throttle control (like BMW valvetronic).
Anyway, if you need help programing stuff you could hit me up
The small secondary opening of the exhaust valve is likely a decompression feature on the cam used to aid in starting. Typically a flyweight that opens and returns the cam to normal profile.
Are those 1:1 rocker arms? That will determine your actual valve lift needed in respect to the cam lobes.
Figure you're aware of this and just didn't mention it in the video.
Now you can do variable valve timing on the fly without a custom cam or other weird engineering. Not to mention you can also optimize for low demand mapping, high demand, or even cylinder shut off. I'd say the most difficult part will be determining your torque curve for a given "cam" profile.
love the meta-hack methodology Wesley, and, a nod to your wrist game also....nice pepsi Tudor
Thanks! It's actually a 1675 GMT
@@WesleyKagan sweet, that'll teach me to make off-handed assumptions. nice piece
Having control of the valves lets you close the cylinder and start it without an electric starter. That might not work on a 4-cylinder, but should on any V8.
A highly accurate (and no-touch) way to track the position of the valve while it's running would be to use a optical encoder sensor and barcode on a stub mounted to the valve. TDC/TDB can be registered with the data stream. Having this data, you can then optimize the profile at different RPMs. If you have control over other things like fuel delivery and ignition, you could really do some crazy things like up the compression ratio to 10:1 without detonation, some serious compression braking, and who knows what else.
Love the C3, and I'm a Corvette guy. BUT, the Catfish Miata is amazing. Weighs nothing, plenty of room to work (yay tube frame!), and it looks great.
For improved resolution over those potentiometers, check the hall effect sensors and the way Tom used them in this video; th-cam.com/video/SgqflcHBTwc/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=TomStanton Also - using magnets means no parts to wear out if you were to use them in a running engine...
I just subscribed this morning after seeing your last video and you uploaded another i hope you keep seeing videos this often great work.
Awesome stuff. I really like the tool, I don't think you would have dreamed of doing something like that if it wasn't for 3D printing.
For the Data you should use CSV. It stands for comma separated values and is really just that. If you create a text file, wirte A, B, C in the first line, D, E, F in the 2nd line and save it as a *.csv file, you can open it in Excel, LO Calc, Google Sheets or whatever and the values will be put in the respective rows and columns. If you need to use a comma in the data you can escape it or use \t (tab) as a value separator.