I 3D Printed a LiquidPiston Engine, and it Sounds Incredible!!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- You and your company can try Onshape for free at www.Onshape.pro/3dprintedlife
In this video, I complete my year long journey to 3D print a proper, compact, high performance liquid piston engine. The design uses no valves, only ports and the alignment of the rotor to control airflow in and out of the chambers. And you bet I got it working this time around.
I also improve my dynamometer setup to collect data at higher engine speeds, and I'm able to successfully run all 4 engines on the setup to compare peak performance as well as get a vague idea of efficiency.
Check out the Liquid Piston engine project files on Onshape
cad.onshape.com/documents/764...
Watch Camden Bowen's video here!
• A New Type of Rotary E...
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Intro - 0:00 - 0:55
Sponsored by Onshape - 0:55 - 2:09
Redesign in Onshape - 2:09 - 2:32
First Prototypes - 2:32 - 5:45
Fluid Simulation! - 5:45 - 6:49
Fixing the dyno - 6:49 - 8:32
Dyno testing engines - 8:32 - 10:03
Apex seal issues - 10:03 - 11:10
Getting it running! - 11:10 - 13:17
LP dyno and outro - 13:17 - 14:12
#3dprintedlife #liquidpiston #3dprinting
This video is sponsored by Onshape - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
You and your company can try Onshape for free at www.Onshape.pro/3dprintedlife
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www.youtube.com/@TechIngredients
I saw that 3D Max sells a diamond nano particle infused filament for printing. It's stronger and self lubricating. Hope it helps.
have you considered a separate air intake on each chamber? because its going to be working almost entirely on preasure if you fire it in the top/bottom if you fire it in side of each chamber you also have air speed/friction driving it. also if you make a electric control valve where the 3 pipes split that holds one pipe open 1 closed and 1 pressurized you can create variable pressure with lower pressure in the 'far chamber' further reducing resistance
if you wanted to make a mechanical valve instead you could make
something like a disk with a 2 tesla valves inside it arranged in opposite directions arranged so they always line up with 2 of 3 tubes
while third one meets flat disk/is closed, that way youd have a pressurized intake some resistance on out take but still a outtake without it just blowing pressure out a release valve/into air and you could just spin the disk at differnt speeds to change the speed of motor with a fixed pressure source (youd want to make sure the outtake path was 2 or 3 times smaller than the intake though even using tesla valve if going to recycle the air/pressure just to get a high enough difference that it dosnt feed air down both particularly at high pressures. alternatively you could have the exhaust valve just blow out side of housing into air which is simpler probably, but you wont be able to maintain pressure/operation for long that way (you might have to have a feeder line from the outtake join directly into side of the main tesla intake valve, but ive never seen that done/dont know if its possible to feed one tesla valve into the side of another's without interrupting its flow)
Add a little acetone and the piston will really be liquid!
hahh no no no bad idea!
@@3DprintedLife acetone polishing is a useful technique.
Better yet combust acetone and air mixture inside for extra power !! All you have to do is pump in one hole that mixture put it over flame that heats housing to that temperature do it combusts inside chamber and get good life insurance
Last very important
@@gadlicht4627 No such thing as good insurance, especially for experimenters.
@@techstuff9198 it’s joke
Something is screaming at me "go bigger'. Not huge(yet), but larger so that little leaks won't matter as much. Also wanted to note to anyone reading, The amount of time to do this is staggering. Congratulations to you for having the persistence to stick with it. Great work my man!
Appreciate it! And yeah there's definitely an optimal scale here that could make things easier and I intentionally kept it small because I enjoy the challenge, but going a bit bigger would probably have helped and could have saved me some time haha!
MORE POWER!!!!! Tim Taylor 2022
“Invention is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.” - T. Alva Edison
@@FilosophicalPharmer Which is to say that Edison thunk on his feet versus Tesla's ability think designs thru to near completion prior...
More like a lot of tenacity!
More Flywheel mass. I built a double acting single cylinder steam engine that ran on compressed air, so the stroke in both directions were powered. It would get caught at TDC or BDC and wasn't very smooth or reliable. I added a 5lb metal plate from an old exercise set to the crankshaft, and it made it run like butter. The greater the rotational inertia of the flywheel, the smoother the engine will run.
The other thing, is Cam timing. Steam engines have very clever linkages to control the advance of the valve action. It makes a huge difference in high and low rpm realms. Car engines are running between 600-6000rpm usually, so the valve timing only needs to appropriately cover a 10 times range. Since you need to go from a couple of RPM to hundred or thousands of RPM, you will need a much broader range of advance control. Im not sure how that works with a Rotary, but if you had a way to delay the intake action at startup, and advance it as rpms rise, itd make for a much better performing engine. Classically on piston steam engines, this was dont with a hand lever that cantilevered the linkage between the camlobe and valve body, but it should be possible to do it automatically with a governor. As the engine spools up, a set of spring loaded weights are swung out which push the assembly up or down, or, the governer is on a helically splined shaft, as rpms increase and centrifugal forces increase, the governor climbs up or down the helical teeth which alters the valve timing.
If you google some old steam engine setups, you'll see how gorgeously simple the contraptions that the intellectual giants of the past pioneered are. Just seeing a few examples is all it takes to have the knowledge to design your own clever governed advance.
Yea, what he said. You need that mass to drive it over center. Just like a car engine's idle with a performance cam.
@@markwhelan1652 the engine has such little torque though, he had to increase airflow to make it work.
1:13 Just fyi as someone who uses onshape about 8+ hours a day for work I think it should be noted that, although Onshape it might be Cloud based, it does run in the cloud, whilst there are add-ons for simulation and FEA to be run on the cloud, as cloud compute; the CAD itself is not, it runs in your browser, but your computer hardware is still be used. There is a system check function you can do to check how good your system is. So a faster more powerful machine will be better than a $200 chromebook.
Also there are plenty of features that have been promised to onshape users over 8 years ago, and they still have not been made.,
Indeed, I used Onshape a few times over the years and there are still several promises they have not kept, along with a few things that WERE beneficial that they removed... While I can appreciate some of the ease and accessibility, there is still the "cloud" based nature of the product... meaning that it is insecure, reliant on the primary server remaining active, virtually useless when internet connection is lost or gets sketchy, and other factors outside of your control or influence. I have not yet found a really good program that is easy to use, relatively cheap, and solves many of these issues... the last really good one (although more expensive) that came close was Autocad 2016 before they enacted their horrible "subscription" service. I avoid ALL cloud based or subscription services like the plague! Yes, the other ones have their own drawbacks or obstacles, but I can keep working on my laptop without ANY internet connection or dependencies other than power.... I also maintain my OWN copies of any work within my own system (along with very regular backups) for full privacy and ownership of my designs. Smart people will only get burned *once*...
"As powerful as it is reliable"
Just like a real rotary engine
62 likes..what a bunch of Wankels.
EMOTIONAL DAMAGE
unreliable*
@@randellsmith7651 No, they're still a joke.
@@canonicaltom in terms of simply power to weight ratio, power to size ratio, and power to complexity ratio, combustion rotary engines are no joke at those. however no one can deny the issue of temperature gradient (since hot gas is on one chamber and exhaust is in diff chamber and intake is in diff chamber causing the chambers to have different temperature that warps the engine and cause inefficiency) and the apex seal issue. which is what the liquid piston engine wants to fix.
tldr: the only thing bogging down a Rotary engine is its unreliability. its power and efficiency is the real deal. liquid pistons aim to tackle the unreliability issue.
The idea to use paint to verify the air path is genial.
do you mean genius?
Bigger intake o-rings and a flywheel are a must
The master returns! Brother, I have been checking your channel basically every week for the last few months in hope that you posted some more incredible content!
God, I love R&D. Thanks for the video! Always inspirational.
Awesome video! A word of caution for future, if you ever get into sustained loads with a prony break based dynamometer - it gets HOT, and fast. With my electric motor power measurements, the thing that eventually exploded my prony break was that the PLA started to expand due to heat, and eventually even melted, which causes more friction and consequently the applied load goes up exponentially. At one point, either the motor/engine stops or the prony break has a rapid disassembly.
Really crazy. Congratulations on the success!
Welcome back & Wonderful content always 👍👍
Persistence pays off! Great job staying focused on seeing this project to completion
Great work!!
I have been waiting for this
I am excited to see you take this further.
All your videos are so nice, thanks for sharing 🙏🏻❤️
Great work, glad it turned out. Valuable lessons im sure.
For sure, thanks!
Keep it up!! Good job.!!
I think it's amazing that you can do a lot of research just on the computer like the wright brothers were the first ones to come up with the the wind chamber to test the aerodynamics of the wings and the propeller which is just as valuable as a plane flying
Super impressive stuff, you're videos really remind me of Stuff Made Here in the level you go to to achieve your goal.
The goat is back! Regards from nachosprinter!
WHOA!!! nice work man!
Thank you! Cheers!
Nice work dude! Just found your channel today, there goes my whole afternoon now haha.. Seems like you don't have a compressor? Maybe you just enjoy the workout, if not, an old refrigeration compressor from a water cooler or bar fridge is a great source of high pressure air, and super quiet too! Keep the awesome videos coming! Thanks!
And he posts again. Finally I can watch his new vid let’s goo
So I've got a wacky one for you. You may have seen the pentagonal rotary engine floating around on the innerwebs. Supposedly it is a motor that was used on a Russian torpedo or something like that? Anyways, I have designed an engine based off of Integza's rotary, which was based off your rotary anyways. I liked his idea of using the first air expansion to feed the second air expansion on the Wankel, so I used that idea to make my pentagonal rotary. With the 5 sided rotor, the final exhaust pulse actually happens around the same time that the first intake stroke happens on the main air intake. So basically it has 4 expansion chambers feeding off of the original intake chamber. In theory it should be able to take advantage of a LOT of the energy of the expanding air. I could never get it to work with the original idea of the gear though as the gear ends up being so small that its basically unusable, however, flipping it around like you did hear MIGHT be the way to make this work that I never thought of! I have done all the math and could share the design if you like. Might save you some time if you wish to take on the challenge of the first ever 5 sided rotary air engine!
Interesting idea, hopefully you are able to get it working! Personally I think I'm done with air engines for a while hah
Damn, this is a really interesting idea. Do you have a link to any of this? It'd be great to have a look
May want to try the ceramic anti spatter spray instead of the Teflon tape. I believe it is a Teflon based spray, and I know it works as a lubricant.
Instead of springs, could you use air pressure to behind the rotor seals? As a bonus, the contact pressure would scale with the operating pressure.
Love watching your video. On this build, why not install the intake on the side of the piston housing at an angle instead of going through the top so the pressure pushes directly against the side of the piston?
You seem really knowledgeable
This is a real insight to how Mazda works as a company. Not the why, but the how.
Very cool!
I wonder if you could make turn a liquid ring pump into a engine. It might be easier to because you only have to worry about the rotor face.
? Have you tried over lapping the port openings so that the next inlet starts opening before the previous one fully closes., If say, previous chamber opening is 3/4 open, then the next chamber will be 1/4 open, ditto, 1/2 -1/2, ditto 1/4 - 3/4.
Theoretically (in my head that is), you should be maintaining a constant pressure flow. And therefore hopefully, not locking up the rotation, which is what it appears to be doing.
I could be wrong, but I think it might be worth a try.
for channell called 3DprintedLife you have some hardcore 3D printer debugging skills. But good work on the engine. PS amazing production quality, I like the scripting and the flow of the video.
Use compressed air behind the apex seals to apply a much stronger pressure?
I instandly spotted the Hibiki. Good taste my friend 👍
At 6:10 of the video during the flow animations you are losing alot of efficiency 5-10% when your airflow makes the first drop and then again when it runs into itself before it exits. You need to refine these points taking into consideration your fluid dynamics. Reconfigure the ports more like you would for actual fluid instead of air. Your getting what's pretty close to a liquid lock with the flexible materials at the beginning and end of the "strokes".
So I am looking at your onshape design (fellow onshape user her love it) and I see that you are trying to seal intake port as part of the housing. In the original liquid piston the intake port is sealed by the apex seal as it moves from chamber to chamber. And uses spark to ignite of course.
What if you moved the intake seal into the shaft itself instead. Sort of like a sliding valve in the old days. This would take it off the piston outer wall, and move it into the shaft where you can control the seal or leak of air outside of the piston. So any leaks can be over come, because the piston isn't the leak just the shaft, which has no bearing on the function of the expansion of the housing. You could probably do this with a lobe or screw like design where the screw in shaft. Either way this will solve your valve leak. In fact if i have an idea already in mind how this would look...
If you really wanted to mimic the 'explosion' of the combustion cycle, put a magneto timer on the shaft, and instead of running a spark, it runs an electronic air valve to open, mimicking the spark. There will be no valve seals needed, since the pneumatic valve only opens when it passes the magneto. As well this will let you run on bursts and pulses instead of requiring constant flow through the chambers.
fascinating!!!
Now we can compare the possible work done by this VS conventipnal rotary and much more, what if we could change port opening size similar to a carburator opening?
As someone who both uses Onshape, and is highly interested in making a rotary engine; I find this video very helpful. I would like to know how you designed it though as I have yet to figure out the right tools for doing so. What tips would you give and what features made this possible?
For designing it, you can download a spur gear generator plugin to generate the gear teeth more easily. Use boolean subtraction operations to make the ring gear on the housing side. For the geometry of the rotor and housing, you could go with the formula driven curves but I kept it simple using a few tangent curves since at this scale and with the tolerances of 3D printing it doesn't matter as much. The last tricky part was figuring out how to constrain the assembly so the rotor moved correctly, I was able to use the gear relationship on the cylindrical mate of the rotor for that with a ratio of 0.5 (or 2, depending on your order of mates)
Super!
It's an inverted Wankel. Neato. I figure it still has the same issues if it were used for internal combustion. (Still needs the equivalent of apex seals, even though now they're on the stator part.)
Yeah most of the same issues, apex seals are a little easier since they are stationary instead of on the rotor but other parts of the engine are more complicated due to the inverted design.
Lots of small Liquid Piston engines have been made, and are sold as ICE drone engines.
now the question is can it outperform an air driven vane rotor? the standard for air tools
@sourand jaded oh yeah that's for sure easiest way to get A LOT of mass going with high reliability is pistons but it is as you said rather expensive for general use so the common motor for air tools is what's interesting to beat here pistons are just unbeatable in the category
1:10 "the Google docs of CAD" is a description that couldn't be more accurate 😂
Nice 8-) Although, that engine is probably more accurately described as a Cooley engine since John F Cooley patented the basic design in 1903 . Interestingly the better known Wankel engine is a sort of inverted version of this design, in that the rotor shape of the cooley becomes the stator shape of the Wankel and the Wankel's rotor is a triangle joining the contact points if the seals .
The Cooley, has been 'reinvented' many times 8-)
I FUCKING LOVE ONSHAPE
You could have employed ardruino's "interrupt" feature to get your encoder to read at something like 2 mega-hz
Lol I'm by no means a genius, just wanted to know. Thanks and please keep the video coming.
i got a weird feeling integza jacks ideas from u
You should try using laser-cut acrylic
Respect for your patience! 👍
And we can see why this silly design will never amount to much commercially, despite their outlandish claims.
Real world engines are based on good sealing and good wear/rebuild performance.
The power to size/weight ratio is quite a feat, but yeah getting these as reliable as standard piston ICE's is never going to happen. There still may be a niche market for compact combustion engines like this though.
The guy is trying to 3d print an already working wrll in real world engine. Its not the engine design of the real world engine, its the 3d printed version designed by this youtuber that is not working and unreliable.
@@JamesHarbal yes I understand that.
I'm a professional designer and I have looked at the "real" engine videos. I have also built a few high performance gasoline engines over the years.
There is a reason we dont all drive around with rotary gasoline engines... because they are borderline at best and an unreliable dumb idea at worst.
This pump reminds me of the Vankel Engine.
would it be possible to add candle wax inside the chamber to seal up the gaps between the plastic printed threads, then scrape off any exess?
What about sloped intake ports? so that air can slowly feed in air to the new port as the "piston" rotates. By sloped i mean make a channel that slopes into the intake from the surface of the "piston"
The only issue then is sealing it, would be more difficult, so maybe try some kind of silicone? u could just shape it on a paper template, peel it off then add it to a slot on the rotor.
i think several improvements can be made with the engine.
1) make the entire design slightly larger in size so that tolerances would have less effect on the overall system. maybe 40-50% bigger should do the trick
2) add a flywheel since the engine seems to be choking
3) maybe try acetone treated PLA or polished resin to further reduce the friction coefficient
4) bigger air supply, or perhaps combustion but i think we're still far away from combustion engines. lets stick to pneumatics for safety and practicality for now. maybe try those 16 litres bottles at 50-60 psi but im not sure if those bottles can handle that much pressure. The walls seem thicker tho. Also get an air pump unless you wanna get your arms very ripped from all that muscle juice
5) if possible, control so that the air only goes into the system when the intake ports are near the holes so that less air pressure is wasted just being turbulent or leaked. since you're pretty good with electronics maybe u can go digital instead of cams. however im not sure if the benefit will overcome the drawback of pressure drop from having another valve.
6) integza has been using graphite powder to lubricate the insides of his engine design so perhaps if you can get hold of some graphite powder it might prove to be better than teflon tapes. you also wont have to deal with flying grease anymore.
7) that paint idea from your wife was brilliant. maybe using that method more often for debugging would help in future prototypes
an interesting idea especially if you can get it to larger size. could it be a matter of size where a larger model could allow better flow?
I think it would get worse actually, the intake port would scale in 2 dimensions while the air needed to fill the chamber would scale in 3. But I may not be thinking about that correctly
Nice
Great video! One question, wouldn't the output be approximately 15psi for atmosphere at sea level rather than 0? I'm not sure if you'd include that or not 🤷♂️.
The simulation cares about pressure differences, i.e a pressure difference of 60 (60-->0). Notice when you have release the pressure in a tank, the gauge will read zero, rather than 15, this is because they too work off pressure differences. So if it says 60 psi, there is a difference of 60 psi between where the tank and the ambient pressure outside.
What this guy said!
I would say you need more torque on the flywheel. Looks like there is not enough momentum stored to get you through the rotation
How did the the terminology 'liquid piston' get coined? It doesn't seem to be descriptive of this tech. I was just wondering.
One of the other youtubers used pencil lead for lubrication, maybe you could try that approach....
I've tried dry lubricants in the past, the dust is very messy and easily gets airborne. I'd prefer dealing with grease or oil :)
Super glued to avoid super lub leaks!!! 😂
Hey, whatever works!
I can't decide if the conclusion of this video says anything at all about the value of the LP design or just the value of putting lots of work into a 3D printed air engine to improve the seals and friction.
Perhaps a little of both. Seals on rotary engines will always be way more difficult than piston engines, whether you're building miniature pneumatic versions or full size combustion versions!
Hey, I mainly work with Onshape to create 3D models for my job, how exactly did you make the parameters of the engine's sidewalls dependent on the path of the rotor? F in chat for your printer, but hey if you're trying to make things with such tight tolerances you really should be looking towards using larger parts using only resin and replacing any wear point with low tolerance bearings as resin can achieve much smoother and flatter surfaces just because each layer is printed all at once, they also shouldn't wear to much as they're generally a less abrasive material.
I just approximated the curve using a few arcs, which was fine for this scale and 3D printing. I’m not positive if Onshape allows you to generate splines using formulas but that would probably be the best way to do it
Is the fluid simulation also done in OnShape?
MOTOR.. are you going to advance to a air power regulated through what would be the three ignition points?
Bro im just concerned if it is possible to use the triangular rotor and modify it to a liquid piston
I SAW COFFEE I'M SUBSCRIBING
astron aerospace omega 1! Maybe no dead spot. Or add flywheels.
Bro you should check out Axel Daytons videos about his air engines, they seem to work well
What sort of case is your computer in? I thought it looked great!
It's very very custom, built it from scratch!
have you checked out Inegza's version?
Good video, like
Try injecting a bit of non-Newtonian fluid into the airstream so that it does its firmness trick at the points where the air is accelerating/leaking.
That's an interesting idea for sure!
@@3DprintedLife It's my "compromise idea", because I didn't think you'd be ready to accept that Vaseline is a terrible lubricant/sealant for a high-speed/Low-torque application, and mineral oil would have a high loss rate (and your test environment isn't really appropriate for aerosolized mineral oil).
Why is this called piston, not rotary ?
Very nice video!
its the company name
try a V2 90º with wide pistons and short stroke
I want to make a metal one when I get a mill. I'd love to have a 50cc engine to put on my moped and it still be legal.
Likewise the person that discovered the light bulb there's a lot of other things that have to go along with the light bulb like a power source and a wire and a switch
Why don't you use graphite as a lubricant like you did on the previous engine like what integza doing too?
Good question! I use ptfe grease because the thicker grease actually helps to compensate for irregularities in the parts and seals, so it provides better sealing and allows the engine to be more efficient, though a bit slower.
question, if you were to drive this with a drill what would be the intake psi versus the output pressure? could it pull a vacuum or run as compressor?
I don’t know what the pressure would be but yes it could absolutely pull a vacuum
The last iteration seems to work just by the air pressure itself
The piston as it expand, so be having air to it constantly! The piston when it contracts, so be having air constantly to the exhaust! So there are three intakes and three exhaust! You should be able to turn the motor, and it be able to pump water!
Since the intake and exhaust ports are on the rotor, I actually only need two of each. They move from chamber to chamber to intake and exhaust air. But you're right, it could work as a pump!
Consider getting a program called SimpleDyno, then you won't need to use a prony brake at all, just a tach and know the moment of inertia of your flywheel
What is the source of power here? Using pumped air to create rotational movement - like a Turbo in a automotive engine?
Yes compressed air, but unlike a turbo which acts as a turbine converting a continuous flow of air into rotation, this engine uses a small amount at a time and allows it to expand in the chamber to create the rotation. In that sense, it acts closer to a normal combustion engine, but the act of compressing and combusting the fuel is simplified and replaced with already compressed air ready to expand!
You should double stack the motor and have top dead centers opposite of each other.
Not opposite but at 90 degrees from each other. There IS a bottom dead center too.
@@Greatdome99 Why 90?
ive got a really bad air engine model lol, if i send the files do ya thing you may be able to test it?
Sorry I don't think I have time for that, I've got a lot of other projects on my plate!
Awesome project. maybe you'll add a flywheel to it.
I never really understood these power meters. I assume the torque is set according to how tight you tighten the screw on the axial shaft. Wouldn't that mean however that you only tested the engines on a specific torque? There would be a different result in total work measured if you applied a different torque. So the comparison between different engine designs seems sketchy to me as you don't know which torque works best for each engine.
Yep you're exactly right, and it's not ideal. I've thought of adding a servo to have variable torque on the bar, but with my limited air supply there's no sense since it would run out of air before even needing to adjust torque.
@@3DprintedLife Okay that makes sense. Maybe you could instead test the engines for different torques each. It would be more work but might yield interesting results.
what is the paperclip thing at 0:30?
I made my own air hogs type air engine took me about 2 weeks to finish i wanted it to run at 0 rpm idle have high rpm power and run at 8 bars for at least a minute its 1.6cc its a oversquare 2 prings design with a oring sealed piston everything was printed with esun solid gray petg on a ender 3 pro
Does it maybe need a flywheel? Make a 3 rotor and add a flywheel.
Is that OnShape's version control system? Huh. I might have to try that. EDIT: Er. perhaps not. not at that price point.
It is really nice! And free for home users
Super cool to see it working! I'd love to see a more
powerful and more reliable version though it would be nice if you had kept the sponsor to the sponsor segment
Why not just print the moving printable parts out of teflon or similar low friction material?
what cad programm do you use
Congrats! 🙂
Thought my question is WHY?
Thanks! And for the engineering challenge of course!
The Quadrature encoder with 600 pulses per revolution wasn’t accurate enough?
It was too accurate! There's a limit to how many pulses per second the encoder can output, and with such a high resolution it can hit this limit at a pretty low speed