Is Kneedown Illegal? | Legal Hints + Tips
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.พ. 2021
- Are kneeskids breaking the law? Are you a knee-dragger? Our legal expert, Andrew Dalton busts some internet myths and explains what to do if you're pulled by the police...
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I got my knee down once, followed by my arse, back, head and the rest of my bike 😂
Like most of us. More than once :D
Yep I did it just before Christmas, also got 2 broken arms for my trouble...
Me too, followed by 9 months with a Taylor Spatial frame.
@@timmason7430 Ouch thought mine was bad...
I got knee down once, when someone pulled front of me behind of "give way" traffic sign.
I got my kneedown in front of a biker cop which I didn't see, about 20 years ago! I thought I was getting pulled for sure. He just gave me a nod.... #respect 🤛
Lol. Our local coppers had a knee down = dangerous driving . Nobody ever tested it.
@@1000sofusernames Then your local coppers were wrong and would have been embarrassed by the court proceedings.
Just spent 15 minutes watching some great advice that will ultimately never apply to me 😂 great video though lads 👍
I detect Some Sarcasm ,,Very Original.
Utterly agree. Watched the lot. Never getting my knee down 🤣
@@paulhorvath9784 get a life
Ditto! 👍🏼
I dunno. He goes on a bit doesn't he? The video could have been half as long if he didn't keep repeating himself.
Th UK truly is where all fun comes to die.
Agreed. I enjoy the aspect of freedom and not being part of the masses. I hate being told what to do by the state.
Not much better here in States :/
@@Lobo_Argent Well many states are still quite free imo but yeah it's looking like we're moving in the wrong direction...
@@NiSE_Rafter we can’t even lane split (filter) here except in California; I find it a bit silly :(
Switzerland can teach the UK things about killing fun... motorsports of all sorts are illegal there, and also Chris got a ginormous fine.
I got my knee down 14 years ago, shes still with me...
A man who marries a good wife becomes happy.
A man who marries a bad wife becomes a philosopher.
Shit, mate. I’m a philosopher😂😂😂
Fuck its 2021 "officer my knee identifys as a tyre"
And you are racist if you call it "it"... It's gender fluid cause it mans up round corners but turns to a bitch when it hurts.
He/Him/Tyre
When 'justice' depends on how much you can actually afford, it's not really justice is it.
Sadly justice has always depended on how much you can afford to some extent.
If your guilty as sin and clearly so the best barristers are unlikely to get you off but if you can’t afford a solicitor, barrister or expert witness when needed the odds are heavily stacked in favour of the police and CPS and as a result justice is often not done!
I also find the that your expert witness needs to be an ex class 1 copper bizarre! Why not an professional motorcycle instructor, qualified physicist etc etc!
And the competence or education of the officer of the Crown.
Not too many Roads Schollars in the coppers. (See what I did there with Rhodes? Huh did ya?).
Can we just take a moment to appreciate Chris’ slow mo on the S1000RR , elbow down too 😁👍🏻
Pretty much?! 😅😏
@@BaronVonGrumble edited comment accordingly, sir 😂
I am 60. If I get my knee down I am not coming back up :-)
Love this series, interesting and informative.
I love this series! Thanks
Andrew Dalton is a bad ass ....he dealt with my accident claim directly and is absolutely awesome and such a nice bloke and as you can see in this video he seriously knows his stuff ,,can't recommend this man enough ! #legend
The best thing about this is the comments section, with so many people saying they can't get their knees down! Neither can I, and now I feel a lot less embarrassed about it :D One day guys, one day!
If I could do it at 16 on a DT50 then you can too. Its just a case of figuring the bike out and what you can/can't get away with. Most people are limited by fear (which is healthy and good on a bike) and though they have all the skill and bike, they won't push it far enough to ever find out.
I started off racing mx and minimoto's many years before road bikes so knee down on the road isn't really all that impressive afterwards. There are some minimoto tracks where you're knee down more than not.
I got my full license in January and courtesy of my son (ex BSB racer) I have had lots of good advice on my riding which has massively improved this year with my first big bike (CBR650R), over 4,500 miles riding and a European trip and riding hard around the Austrian Alps being a big part of that.
I am even on a promise for a mate of his (MotoGP Test rider) to give me instruction on track sometime, hopefully soon!
If I end up on track getting my knee down fine however my only ambition for the day is to end going quicker than I start and feeling my judgement and ability to get round corners has improved by finding out where the limits of adhesion are, what I can do to increase them maybe trail braking and the likes so I can negotiate corners and hazards on road better.
If my knee goes down ✔️ if not I really don’t give a crap!
I love this series. Andrew is first rate at explaining things and clearly knows his craft.
Always fantastic, straight forward advice from @whitedalton. Thank you for these videos.
To be fair, I've had police going the other way wagging their finger at me for hanging off the bike,not knee down. It keeps the bike more upright with bigger tyre contact patch. Not every copper is a biker, made my riding buddy laugh as he's a copper!🤣
Hang off does not result in a bigger contact patch. Even if it would, it wouldn't make a difference, since contact patch size is not related to traction at all.
@@cbr7170 shhh...its my excuse 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hanging off moves your center of gravity closer to the inside of the corner, enabling you to hold a tighter line.
@@cbr7170 Can you explain please? "contact patch size is not related to traction at all."
@@cbr7170 What a load of bullshit, hanging off reduces the lean angle the bike has to make -> larger contact patch of tyre -> more traction
Really loving this series - keep it going!!!
These have all been incredibly interesting and incredibly helpful 👍
I haven't seen a copper in 15 years so no problem!
Sending an offensive tweet is a quick way to remedy that!
You won't need to, now that people can submit their dashcam clips of evildoers such as yourself, basically doing the police's very important job for them lol
Plenty of political and gender misdemeanours for them to investigate. Also time spent painting their kit in LGBT colours and taking the knee for Marxist BLM......
Your not trying hard enough!
I see the word copper (im not from UK) im thinking peaky blinders
Very good advice, do love this series 👍
Another brilliant advice / info vid. Really interesting.
Well done lads 👏 a very informative and watchable video.
Love these videos. Deffo missed these types of videos
wont encounter this problem at all cause im not even close to getting my knee down 😎
I remember in the 90's we used to drill 1/8 holes in the sliders, and superglue Zippo lighter flints into them.
Kicks up sparks beautifully.....
Best seen in the evenings for full effect
So basically you're shafted if a copper thinks your knee down is dangerous because even if found not guilty you could be out of pocket by £2,000 in lawyer fees.
But it could be a case of keeping you bike license, or walking home
So much for innocent until proven guilty. The copper should have to prove how your riding is dangerous.
@@lewisyates2 Perhaps if the police had to pay all your legal costs and expenses if found innocent then perhaps they would think twice before charging you.
Please do a video on tinted visors. It’s a massive grey patch that I don’t think a lot of us understand.
Smashing video, loves these ones!
Thanks for clearing this one up boys !
Al's very last point was the best point in this video, there's a massive difference between experienced riders getting their knee down in a controlled manner with proper body position vs those who are using the country lanes to practice trying to get their knee down....glad you made that point Al, I didn't think it was coming!
Actually he didn't make that point, because it would still come down to whether any of the actual offences outlined by this solicitor were committed, and they would not necessarily be. People have to learn somehow. If they are practicing in a controlled and safe way then you're going to struggle to argue that any offence was committed.
But of course it's not about that, it's about gatekeeping 😉
Love these legal advice vids
I’m glad this is back!
Great video!
Getting your knee down and thus hanging off the bike or just draging your sliders on your boots, while not hanging of the bike. Makes about 3°degrees of lean angle difference.
Just like Jason Statham said majority of us think it’s illegal due to the internet keyboard warriors. Great video!
If I get me knee down, have just low sided 🇬🇧🏍.
Great series Al
Excellent advice - much appreciated
Knee down with a bike that’s leant over less than when it’s on its side stand is a rare skill
Special hips and skinny legs 😆
Fagan can do it he's no Emmet of the original fast bikes grind them pegs 🐢
Knowledge is power.......great series, giving bikers the confidence to argue the toss with the the pigs may halt the stress of a pending court case by educating them on the spot
Can remember back in the 90's, groups of us all practicing the technique around Podimore roundabout. FZR400's, me on my NS400r, CBR's, ZXR's, strokers......ah summer memories
Back when biking was fun. Now its a constant test of observation for plod and people aiming at you while on facebook.
@@siraff4461 exactly bud, eyes up and keep ahead.👍
Love these vids guys.
Gotta ask. I’m a local Bristolian and love the JHS stuff. Recently got full license - is a street triple RS too lairy?
Great vid...on the road I generally try to stay invisible to drivers in the sense that I’m not giving them cause for concern...just visible enough for them to be mindful
More of this please!
Great points made . I always thought was eligal to put knee down. You explained well thanks ...
I spoke to Andrew about my case. An officer ticketed me for having no mirrors on my bike and put it under the alleged offense of 'failure to have proper view' lmao. Andrew was quick to tell me it ISNT illegal to have no mirrors on your motorcycle and if they do pursue me in court, I will be happy to read out the road construction and use act to the judge where it clearly states, 'no requirement'. Police are a joke.
Why would you not have mirrors on a road bike?
@@aidenlothian9642 because he wants it to look like a track bike 🙄
@@andyjackson5 Lowsided a while ago and never bothered to get new mirrors. Makes filtering a lot easier with less width and shoulder checks work better than mirrors anyways. ;)
Every single episode of this mini-series is absolutely brilliant, solid and sensible advice that we should all have in the back of our minds when cutting about. Thanks for putting this together 😎
All depends on the circumstances, driving below or far below that of a careful and competent driver/rider will get you some points dependant on the circs.
Excellent sensible advice 👍
If you want to get back to those Fast Bike days, come on over to N Ireland and join us for a bit of craic. That’s how we ride and have been for 20 years..my biking inspiration was those old Fast Bike videos 👊🏻💪
Fascinating. Very interesting & helpful although I'm too crap to get me knee down so probably won't need to worry about it too much lol.
That bloke looks like a shorter undertaker
Haha he is! I can’t un-see I now!
Belter! 🤣 indeed, definitely can’t un-see that now!!
Even sounds like a wrestler...White Dalton!
Although the laws in my country are different, these videos are facinating to watch.
Sounds like good advice :)
In the unlikely event that I can manage to get my knee down, I will bare this in mind.
So basically, if it comes to a "motoring offence" you're guilty until proven innocent (+ out of pockets thousands in legal fees). How is this allowed when the whole justice systems is supposed to be based on "innocent until proven guilty".
I'm a cop, got nothing against people getting a knee down in a *safe environment*.. more power to you.
We all know what's dangerous (or should), any attempt to tell the cop "actually officer I was just moving my contact patch" well... good luck with that lol.
Ride safe, race on track, don't put other peoples lives in danger.
Great info! I wonder if this all applies here in the states...
3:18.. Cracking shot!
Good advice video
I bought a SRAD in 95 and on that very day never failed to get either knee down on the road. The bike & tyre is key for starters for anyone learning. I still do & I'm 53 now but there's a time and a place to ride these days its not what it was back in the 90's. Showing my age lol.
I'm always waiting for a new video.
Love the objective common sense discussion, well presented guys, thanks
"You can't give evidence on your own behalf." ???!!!
UK laws always seemed a mess to me but this is next level silliness.
Average speed cameras, overzealous police, low speed limits... riding on the "wrong" side of the road is bad enough but I think I will no longer plan to tour the UK by bike. That once was a dream of mine but I suppose I need to let that go.
I think his point was that you can’t give evidence as an expert in your own defence not that you can’t give testimony as to what did or didn’t happen!
Thanks guys - can you do one on aftermarket cans?
Solid white lines. Highway Code says “You must not cross or straddle”. Usual exceptions of course. Passing very slow vehicles when safe to do so etc.
Firstly great chanel gentle folk of the shire, obviously this one could spark alot of debate, knee down for me is track only or picking up a quid someones dropped, just a word of warning on knee down whilst road riding. Im a former fire officer and once spent an hour looking for a poor individuals detached head in a hawthorn bush. This was unfortunately a comination of knee down and a extended wing mirror on a car towing a caravan. Witnesses to the accident said the unfortunate party had not crossed the white line! So beware you never quite know what your gonna get on the road. Keep up good work boys, love the news desk!
I bet thats killed a lot of myths, i always thought "knee down" was dangerous driving/riding. Good video, thanks for sharing :)
My chicken strips are as wide as kat slaters gash so I think I'm fine , usefull vid for some bikers though Al 👍
I'm an enforcement officer and I totally agree with the point about the attitude test, you can possibly talk your way out of a notice but you can certainly talk your way into one.
I am unlikely to get my knee down, at least deliberately, so the two offences (other than speeding) that the police seem to be watching for here are lifting the front wheel or sustained loss of traction, for both you will be walking home.
Good bita info 👌🏼
Was literally searching about this in the morning
I live in Tennessee in the US, and so many riders want to go to Tail of the Dragon with their mates and show off, among other of the many twisties around it, and they have no idea and go off. They go off before even getting to the first turn as they come out of the petrol station at the start because it has a hill that goes flat in a relatively straight turn. Once on the TOTD, they cross the lines all the time, they go off but spend a lot of time in the opposite lane, or they go incredibly slow because they’re scared, but are too self-absorbed to even consider letting the faster traffic by on the MANY MANY pull-offs. The cars cutting the corners is even worse. Best thing to do on well-renowned twisties is to stay in your lane, have sow drills you’re practicing to sharpen your skills when you have a multitude of opportunities (such as trail braking), and use it as an opportunity to hone your skills, learn how to stay safe, learn to ‘ride your own ride’, and show respect for the hazards that are exaggerated on twisty roads.
I don't ride as fast as Ago or Hailwood used to and they didn't get their knee down.I have seen some riders on the road adopt some strange body postures in search of this habit.They can often be found circling big roundabouts while a friend waits with camera at the ready to capture the wonderful moment!
In these strange times I would love to get my tyres down let alone my knee. got a brand new set of supper courses on had them put on a year ago, STILL BRAND NEW
Do a track day and you will have your right knee down by the end of the morning, the left knee tends to take a little longer but when you can do it it’s excellent. And you do feel to be in better control of your bike.
As a follow on to this what about dragging other things like bits of the bike? I mean hero blobs are designed for it but what about if you're dragging the pegs, exhaust, frame?
It sounds like you would be going mad but a lot of bikes (usually cruisers or other non-sporty bikes) can drag allsorts at even very mild lean angles and miles away from the limit of grip.
I don’t even live in UK and I love these videos
All good about knee down. Also about the tyres have to cross solid whites for a nick - I previously thought no part of the rider or bike could be over the line. 👍
Solid episode chaps... good to know, never thought it was a thing ! I think for some people (I wouldn’t know who) it’s more likely to be...
Officer: “yep saw you got your knee down on that corner...but that’s not why I’m stopping you...”
Biker: “😞”
Officer: “the 300yd wheelie out of the corner is why I’m stopping you”
Biker in court: “Ah, well you see I was scanning for badgers 🦡 and took a high vantage point as a safety precaution, having attended wheelie school to develop these additional measures”
Would love to hear one of these on all the ins and outs with exhausts, full systems, race cans. I’m sure there’s plenty who’d agree 😂
From someone who lives in the US, you guys saying 'try explaining to the cop I was moving my contact patch' is a hilarious prospect. Y'all must have some considerate cops.
Trying to explain stuff to cops here is generally considered "being confrontational"
Some of the experienced ones are very good. we are lucky.
We move our contact patch cause we have corners 😂
Great advice but me being a novice, the closest I get to putting my knee down is when I do my Tyre pressures....
Nice thoughts. If my knee is stuck to the pavement though, I’m definitely misbehaving significantly…
This children, is why you scout the road like a reasonably prudent hooligan BEFORE you put on your mad hat 😊
I live in the US and I got pulled for passing to many vehicles in one go...in a passing zone in North Carolina. He tried telling me I could only pass two vehicles at a time. I said give me a ticket that sounds like reckless driving, he gave me a verbal warning. I was actually disappointed because I knew he was full of crap.
Excellent explanation..... Thank you. So, no knee dragging in the UK. As always, be polite!
Me, gene wilder and Michael fox had a similar conversation about 20 years ago, gene is still the only person I've ever seen riding a motorcycle whilst seated backwards going 130mph down the freeway.
Terrific Vid Guys. Don't know what he law is here in NSW Australia. I'll have to ask on of my copper mates.
That’s interesting and it’s outrageous (and something I’ve experienced) that costs aren’t refunded for these court cases. Got to love that since 2011... robbery by stealth.
@myhoneybringsallthebeestomyjar there isn't one, just to prove this isn't party political, a rule brought in by Maggie Thatcher's government was that local authorities and government departments had their legal bills capped, so that they couldn't litigate for the sake of it (essentially what's being suggested here) any cases beyond budget had to be approved by the a government specialist. Tony Blair changed this and also expanded legal aid, so that all local authorities had to do was have a 'reasonable chance of winning' - also not great BUT enter call me Dave Cameron, who in one foul swoop wipes out legal aid and potential cost recovery against the crown and worse still unlimited litigation for police, local authorities, etc - now I grant this is massively simplified, however Maggie made it simpler to stop cases but you had to have cash to start them, Blair made it too easy for pointless claimants and Cameron decided the best thing to do was screw everyone over with double trouble for tax payers. You couldn't make it up!
@@PCERules all of them were Tories, though 😜
@@NooBiker the communist workers party would argue that one 🤣
What is the best handling bike out of the box in your opinion? Only changes suspension settings and tyre choice?
It probably depends on the bike and height of the rider as well. Some guys could get their knee down going granny speeds. Other people would have to be at 60 degrees lean for their knee to touch the ground.
I haven’t enjoyed Andrew’s anti-UK, pro EU rants in MCN.
He came across as a bit of a prat! However, this video has helped greatly. A very powerful video. Thanks for posting. Thanks Andrew
For a perfectly smooth track it's justifiable, not seen many roads where it seems sensible. Pot holed & rough road surfaces where I live. You run the risk of getting knocked off or dislocating your knee/hip.
What David Jones said! Most public roads where I live aren't that smooth. The corner apexes seem to have serious bumps, so if you are leaned right over and your wheels hit the bump, then you could get unsettled (at best). And in the city where the tight turns are on smooth surface; you really have to go to a lot of effort to get your body positioned for a knee-down moment, so it's hardly worth it for little advantage. I think Mike Hailwood had the right idea :)
For me, if you get your kneew down, it is likely you need to get your knee down, to successfully negotiate the bend. Therefore you must be going too fast. If you love to play, and I am an old bloke who still likes to play, go to the track. Ask yourself can I see the tractor with a huge plough on the back the other side of the bend? I sound like my granddad, maybe because I am a granddad, and I've survived motorcycling for a very long time! Great advice by the way, well done Al for producing this item, plenty of food for thought.
Take me back to the 90's you wouldn't have stopped to even have the conversation 👻
Far better content than your Monday news features
Great Video. Although I'm in the US, I always wondered about the legality of knee dragging. I wish you would have asked about the legality of titanium knee sliders on the street, I know they are illegal on track . . .
It's illegal, they damage the roads surface which a criminal offense. Also, the sparks they create is regarded as a fire hazard. I'm from south africa where we still get away with most things but we all know metal sliders are a no no.
I was not sure because the road was diesel covered and had to lean more in the corner to compensate for this.......
I've got a harley and can't lean more than 3° before scratching my pipes, but still an interesting video
If you're brought to court on an offence, that you prove to be not an offence, then you should be able to claim back any expenses you incurred proving your innocence.
Watching this is like watching a tutorial on how to defuse a bomb... information aimed at dudes that are much cooler than me
I nearly got my knee down on the back of mates blade @ Beckhampton roundabout on the way to Avebury bike night back in the day! Happy days 👍
You'd be have to be brave with the craters that are there nowadays 😂
I've yet to ride on a road where you can go kneedown while riding at the speed limit in my area, but that was an interesting video for sure!
Have watched my son (Ex BSB racer) do it many times safely on the road well within speed limits, commonly on tight roundabouts. He isn’t doing it because he can just because it’s what is natural to him to judge lean angle.
He’s also interesting to watch filtering through traffic he will stick his knee out as he passes a vehicle close so if it moves as he’s alongside he will feel it before he and the bike or nudged so he can evade the intrusion.
These are all just habits from doing this on track during racing that do have potential benefits on road but road is definitely not the place to be ‘Trying’ to get you knee down for Cudos!