This was excellent! I’m replacing the chainplates on Wisdom and was planning on using bronze but everyone was telling be in the comments to do carbon fiber and they directed me to your video. I love this setup!
Super interesting video from a structural perspective. I would have really liked to see how the bulkhead section was structurally integrated into the rest of the boat. There is a massive upward force trying to bow the boat up on each side
We did throw a bit of that footage in but it was such a large and complex process and we edited a lot for TH-cam so you might not have seen enough. Might do a follow up vid on this if enough people are interested 🤔
A masterclass in composite fabrication as usual. Might have explained how (and why) you used the plastic wrap to keep the uni together into the narrow tapes because a lot of folks have never seen that technique. Ever work for High Modulus in NZ?
Sure did 😁 I used to run the R&D lab for High Mod a few years back. Good point about the wetipreg technique. We did cover it in a earlier video. I'll put a link to it in the description so people can check it out. Thanks! th-cam.com/video/ihUpdcc7h6k/w-d-xo.html
Awesome video! This is a very impressive project and the technical details were well described and demonstrated. Also, the video work, from the time lapse sequences to the music, was all excellent. Well done.
Just happens to stow a composite shop in a spare locker and engineers a design on a napkin from knowledge somewhere in the back of his head... I'm actually waiting to see when some fix stumps you. I'm not holding my breath while waiting though.
Cheers Ross. Seems we are slowly getting rid of every bit of timber on Paikea....the hard way 😂 Was a bit disappointed to see Catana using plywood inserts but it was 30 yrs ago. Just bringing the old girl into the modern age.
So cool to see a few of the different options for chain plates and how the nice carbon ones are built. Would have loved to see how you tied in the replacement bulkhead section. Thanks for sharing!!
Great video as always, love to see those technical details. I built carbon chainplates to a very similar design for my Mini 650, but they are so tiny compared to this! Just 8 strips of carbon iirc.
Ah I love seeing the composites engineer pro having to do same the tedious micro drilling in new foam core just like us regular hacks. Sure wish the foam makers would get back to predrilling this stuff without adding crazy money to the price tag.
Not really. You only want to shatter the resin matrix, cutting the fibre with the sandpaper is not what we are trying to achieve. The aim is to keep the fibre as intact as possible. Every fibre you sand and break will weaken the structure.
It's awesome to see how involved your boys are in this process. What a great way to learn. Do you use this stuff as academic material as well, such as physics lessons?
Great video - thanks! We’re looking at doing a similar project on our 43ft tri… are there any good calculators or references for working out what weight carbon should be used, and how many layers?
It would be best to talk to a naval architect or composite engineer. Either Gurit, Pure Engineering or SDK are good options. Evan Gatehouse would be able to steer you in the right direction too ( he helped Duracell Project guys). There are no rules of thumb with composite engineering as there are with wood or steel. If you want to learn more you need to start with composite engineering texts. Good luck!
@@youngbarnaclesThanks! That’s really helpful. Really enjoying Matt’s work on Duracell as well - just a real craftsman who’s obsessed with the detail. Love it👍
Great video as always, really love all the technical details! May I ask, how many layers of carbon was used and what weight? How big safety factor did you put into the new chainplates, what will the breaking strength be in these chainplates?
The strength of the chainplates is 10 x the strength of our side stays. We used more layers than we needed in order to get dimensions and aesthetics right. We used 300g carbon unidirectional fibre.
Love it ♥️ so clever. But I do have to ask... now the chain plate is all carbon and stiff but attached to a piece of foam which is butt joined to the old bulkhead... is glassing this foam bulkhead insert to the old enough? 🤔
The camera went by pretty quick, but I saw lots of fresh glass and biaxial carbon tying together the new foam to the original plywood-cored areas. He's built in plenty of shear strength to ease your concern ;)
Yes it's structurally sound. We reinstated the fibreglass that was the bulkhead with an additional patch over the top of the carbon chainplate. So there is actually more fibreglass there than there was before.
Probably 😂 It may have been a bit less but it's way overkill. In the end I was trying to get it to look a certain way rather than chasing an actual thickness.
Great work as always! Love to hear a bit about how you engineered these, like whats the thought process of how many layers of uni, width of the chainplate. Im trying to gather enough info for our own 25footer and is generally for a if it looks stong enough it's probably overkill but works . Any recommendations for a "napkin calculation" of the layup?
The load paths are different on every boat so unfortunately there is no rule of thumb to be applied. Having enough layers of carbon is only one small piece of a larger puzzle. If the carbon is not in the correct position it will not be able to deal with loads applied to it.
very nice work with the carbon fibre. However, cutting just one quarter of the bulkhead out and replacing it seems a bit risky to me. Why not change the whole bulkhead, or at least half of it?
Very interesting & informative. Is the layup all carbon uni or is their a layer or two of of biaxial in there? Is un-planned off-axis loading seen in the field?
Thanks for that, great video. I would be interested in the lamination of the section into the hullside and deck part, the requirement to feed the loads taken by the carbon section into the rest of the boat. I guess there were many layers of double bias to spread the loads out into the rest of the structure. Also, why use what looks like 80kg foam? I guess that as long as each side of the chainplate is equally loaded there will not be huge shear on the core but isn't typical good design to use a high density foam core or plywood (I know the last core was plywood but composite chainplates are leak free)? Thanks again, great tech stuff on peel ply and the problems of exotherm on thick laminates.
Fantastic work! Can I ask why you did not go ahead and make the entire bulkhead section out of carbon fiber while you were at it? Are you not really gaining that much with the bulkheads themselves being full carbon vs the foam core E-glass?
Thanks. You assume correctly. At the end of the day Paikea is still a polyester boat. It just wasn't worth the cost to make the bulkheads out of carbon fibre as well. A lot of the time we have to draw a line in the sand and decide how crazy we go with the upgrade/modifications. The foam eglass bulkhead does the job more than adequately and we save some $$ by not using as much carbon.
@@youngbarnacles thank you sir! We are trying to decide now on if we want to spend the extra dollars for full carbon bulkheads on the boat we are having built or sticking with e-glass that’s CF reinforced in all the high load areas. No shortage of ways to spend money lol!
Send me an email admin@youngbarnacles.com There are a few questions you need to ask before that question can be answered in regards to your own build 👍👍
Didn't know about the peel ply. But if you sand it with silicone particles on it these will just be spread all over the surface. Have you cleaned it before sanding?
@@youngbarnacles Sorry, this didn't answer my comment. I was talking about the silicone spread across the surface by sanding without cleaning before. The same goes for the wax you mentioned here. I'm a German naval architect, so I don't know the English name for that wax right now. But I have been working with composites, wood and epoxy for some 30 years for private projects and business as well. If the surface is not good for bonding before sanding it may be even worse depending on the amount of this stuff on the raw surface after sanding because of the mentioned chemicals which tend to separate layers of epoxy.
I see you putting on a lot of strips of carbon fiber. Just from looking at the time-lapse, it looks like a random slapping on as many strips as you can. Is there a method to the madness, i.e. is there some calculations to determine the right/minimal amount of strips to achieve a specific minimum amount of strength? Is it possible to put on too many strips, or does 'more is better' apply here? What is the benefit of using multiple narrow strips, vs on-piece layers covering the whole area (apart from cost reduction)? Is the end result stringer than the steel chain plate?
![Why we built CARBON CHAINPLATES [E86]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FG4wTvEKJ0k/mqdefault.jpg)
This was excellent! I’m replacing the chainplates on Wisdom and was planning on using bronze but everyone was telling be in the comments to do carbon fiber and they directed me to your video.
I love this setup!
Thanks! We love our new chainplates.
Hus you've seen project Duracells chainplates
amazing how much the C/Plate Bolts moved , would never believe they moved this much without seeing , cheers ... top video
Thanks mate. Glad you enjoyed the video
I watch your videos and the carbon work is just amazing. The man’s clearly incredibly talented and smart. 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Cheers bro 😎
Super interesting video from a structural perspective. I would have really liked to see how the bulkhead section was structurally integrated into the rest of the boat. There is a massive upward force trying to bow the boat up on each side
We did throw a bit of that footage in but it was such a large and complex process and we edited a lot for TH-cam so you might not have seen enough. Might do a follow up vid on this if enough people are interested 🤔
@@youngbarnacles yeah it feels like this bit was missing. brilliant otherwise!
@@youngbarnacles Please do a follow up on the how you laminated the bulkhead section :) impressive job as always.
A masterclass in composite fabrication as usual. Might have explained how (and why) you used the plastic wrap to keep the uni together into the narrow tapes because a lot of folks have never seen that technique. Ever work for High Modulus in NZ?
Sure did 😁 I used to run the R&D lab for High Mod a few years back. Good point about the wetipreg technique. We did cover it in a earlier video. I'll put a link to it in the description so people can check it out. Thanks!
th-cam.com/video/ihUpdcc7h6k/w-d-xo.html
Great video, Shane is AWESOME with the expensive black stuff, can really appreciate watching a pro at work.
Cheers mate 😎
nice work, my compliments. I build also chainplates hand layup for cat here in Italy.
thanks for clarifying once and for all about peelply and glorius sanding!
If in doubt...sand it 😁😁
Awesome video! This is a very impressive project and the technical details were well described and demonstrated. Also, the video work, from the time lapse sequences to the music, was all excellent. Well done.
Thanks for that great feedback. Stoked you liked it.
Just happens to stow a composite shop in a spare locker and engineers a design on a napkin from knowledge somewhere in the back of his head... I'm actually waiting to see when some fix stumps you. I'm not holding my breath while waiting though.
Making money? Seem to get stumped on that one quite a bit 😂😂😂
Top job Shayne.Tragic to see wooden bulkhead disintegrating like that.Great work.Ross.
Cheers Ross. Seems we are slowly getting rid of every bit of timber on Paikea....the hard way 😂 Was a bit disappointed to see Catana using plywood inserts but it was 30 yrs ago. Just bringing the old girl into the modern age.
Obviously a Master Class in composites. Like how he laminated the Carbon in strips instead of large pieces- stronger. One down one to go
Yep still got the other side to do
So cool to see a few of the different options for chain plates and how the nice carbon ones are built. Would have loved to see how you tied in the replacement bulkhead section. Thanks for sharing!!
That is in next video th-cam.com/video/NFwAMrp7daQ/w-d-xo.html
@@youngbarnacles So cool, thanks!!!!
Hi guys, what a good video, first time seeing fibre-glass or e-glass being applied also watching carbon fibre strips glued on, just brilliant.
Great video as always, love to see those technical details. I built carbon chainplates to a very similar design for my Mini 650, but they are so tiny compared to this! Just 8 strips of carbon iirc.
you need to send us some photos of your Mini 650 Alex. That sounds like a way cool project
Ah I love seeing the composites engineer pro having to do same the tedious micro drilling in new foam core just like us regular hacks. Sure wish the foam makers would get back to predrilling this stuff without adding crazy money to the price tag.
Yeah I hear you on that one 🙄
Nice to see the family working together.
brilliant , thank you
you definitely would not have been a Weetie Stacker at Woolworths !! .... a head full of knowledge there that's for sure , I'm learning a lot
The sanding also helps expose some fibre ends to which the new laminate can bond more effectively too, right?
Not really. You only want to shatter the resin matrix, cutting the fibre with the sandpaper is not what we are trying to achieve. The aim is to keep the fibre as intact as possible. Every fibre you sand and break will weaken the structure.
nice job! going to do starboard side as well?
Haha! Yeah the other side is pulling out now so it's time to press repeat 😂
It's awesome to see how involved your boys are in this process. What a great way to learn. Do you use this stuff as academic material as well, such as physics lessons?
Great video - thanks! We’re looking at doing a similar project on our 43ft tri… are there any good calculators or references for working out what weight carbon should be used, and how many layers?
It would be best to talk to a naval architect or composite engineer. Either Gurit, Pure Engineering or SDK are good options. Evan Gatehouse would be able to steer you in the right direction too ( he helped Duracell Project guys). There are no rules of thumb with composite engineering as there are with wood or steel. If you want to learn more you need to start with composite engineering texts. Good luck!
@@youngbarnaclesThanks! That’s really helpful. Really enjoying Matt’s work on Duracell as well - just a real craftsman who’s obsessed with the detail. Love it👍
Great video as always, really love all the technical details! May I ask, how many layers of carbon was used and what weight? How big safety factor did you put into the new chainplates, what will the breaking strength be in these chainplates?
The strength of the chainplates is 10 x the strength of our side stays. We used more layers than we needed in order to get dimensions and aesthetics right. We used 300g carbon unidirectional fibre.
Love it ♥️ so clever. But I do have to ask... now the chain plate is all carbon and stiff but attached to a piece of foam which is butt joined to the old bulkhead... is glassing this foam bulkhead insert to the old enough? 🤔
The camera went by pretty quick, but I saw lots of fresh glass and biaxial carbon tying together the new foam to the original plywood-cored areas. He's built in plenty of shear strength to ease your concern ;)
Yes it's structurally sound. We reinstated the fibreglass that was the bulkhead with an additional patch over the top of the carbon chainplate. So there is actually more fibreglass there than there was before.
Man this is the dream! How many days do you think it would take to go from Florida to Europe on this?
I reckon about 20 days?
Subbed, I like your style. : ) Pleasant and not annoying. lol.
nice work!!! how thick it was the carbon ring of the chain plate in the end? 1 inch?
Probably 😂 It may have been a bit less but it's way overkill. In the end I was trying to get it to look a certain way rather than chasing an actual thickness.
Hey thanks crew great to watch including the near miss at the end. Shayne how thick was the collar over the pins?
Haha! Those kids exaggerate 😂 There was plenty of room! Collar thickness was 1.2mm
Badass bro!
Great hands-on video, love it. What is the spec of the carbon used (g/m2, weave? 6k fibers?)
All carbon uni for the chainplate. We talk about lamination of bulkhead in next video th-cam.com/video/NFwAMrp7daQ/w-d-xo.html
Great work as always!
Love to hear a bit about how you engineered these, like whats the thought process of how many layers of uni, width of the chainplate. Im trying to gather enough info for our own 25footer and is generally for a if it looks stong enough it's probably overkill but works . Any recommendations for a "napkin calculation" of the layup?
The load paths are different on every boat so unfortunately there is no rule of thumb to be applied. Having enough layers of carbon is only one small piece of a larger puzzle. If the carbon is not in the correct position it will not be able to deal with loads applied to it.
Super interesting. Nice tee too, haha. Did you work on Alegre? Wasn’t that a mini maxi 72 and a TP52?
Spent a bit of time in the same yard as Alegre (both the TP and mini maxi) 😁😁
very nice work with the carbon fibre. However, cutting just one quarter of the bulkhead out and replacing it seems a bit risky to me. Why not change the whole bulkhead, or at least half of it?
That is the beauty of working with composites. We cover that question in the next video th-cam.com/video/NFwAMrp7daQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=uDMZ-XaS8hvCnOeY
Very interesting & informative. Is the layup all carbon uni or is their a layer or two of of biaxial in there? Is un-planned off-axis loading seen in the field?
All the off axis loading is dealt with at the deck. The primary load is inline with the uni. Getting it all to line up is half the battle
Thanks for that, great video. I would be interested in the lamination of the section into the hullside and deck part, the requirement to feed the loads taken by the carbon section into the rest of the boat. I guess there were many layers of double bias to spread the loads out into the rest of the structure.
Also, why use what looks like 80kg foam? I guess that as long as each side of the chainplate is equally loaded there will not be huge shear on the core but isn't typical good design to use a high density foam core or plywood (I know the last core was plywood but composite chainplates are leak free)?
Thanks again, great tech stuff on peel ply and the problems of exotherm on thick laminates.
Cheers Philip. We'll put together a follow up video addressing these points.
Fantastic work! Can I ask why you did not go ahead and make the entire bulkhead section out of carbon fiber while you were at it? Are you not really gaining that much with the bulkheads themselves being full carbon vs the foam core E-glass?
Thanks. You assume correctly. At the end of the day Paikea is still a polyester boat. It just wasn't worth the cost to make the bulkheads out of carbon fibre as well. A lot of the time we have to draw a line in the sand and decide how crazy we go with the upgrade/modifications. The foam eglass bulkhead does the job more than adequately and we save some $$ by not using as much carbon.
@@youngbarnacles thank you sir! We are trying to decide now on if we want to spend the extra dollars for full carbon bulkheads on the boat we are having built or sticking with e-glass that’s CF reinforced in all the high load areas. No shortage of ways to spend money lol!
Send me an email admin@youngbarnacles.com
There are a few questions you need to ask before that question can be answered in regards to your own build 👍👍
@@youngbarnacles thanks Shayne, will do! Your opinion would be greatly appreciated.
Didn't know about the peel ply. But if you sand it with silicone particles on it these will just be spread all over the surface. Have you cleaned it before sanding?
th-cam.com/video/T-TXRqejb3I/w-d-xo.html
@@youngbarnacles Sorry, this didn't answer my comment. I was talking about the silicone spread across the surface by sanding without cleaning before. The same goes for the wax you mentioned here. I'm a German naval architect, so I don't know the English name for that wax right now. But I have been working with composites, wood and epoxy for some 30 years for private projects and business as well. If the surface is not good for bonding before sanding it may be even worse depending on the amount of this stuff on the raw surface after sanding because of the mentioned chemicals which tend to separate layers of epoxy.
I see you putting on a lot of strips of carbon fiber. Just from looking at the time-lapse, it looks like a random slapping on as many strips as you can. Is there a method to the madness, i.e. is there some calculations to determine the right/minimal amount of strips to achieve a specific minimum amount of strength? Is it possible to put on too many strips, or does 'more is better' apply here? What is the benefit of using multiple narrow strips, vs on-piece layers covering the whole area (apart from cost reduction)? Is the end result stringer than the steel chain plate?
Most of these questions are answered in the following video th-cam.com/video/NFwAMrp7daQ/w-d-xo.html
Don't you need a ruff surface to make it stick better to the hull?
How did you draw out the first template?
Shayne is a yacht designer. He uses Solidedge software for all his designs
@@youngbarnacles thank you so much!
Putting glasfiber on metal will make it corrode faster.. You trap the moisture inside