Our criteria for a great second hand multihull
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- This weeks video is all about our thoughts on buying an old second hand catamaran.
What on earth would posess us to sell the house and buy the most run down catamaran in the boat yard?
Well sit back and let us walk you through our thought process behind choosing a 30 year old Catana42s and why we think it was a better option in this current market than buying brand new.
For more information check out our blog - youngbarnacles...
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Great video guys. People ask us why we haven't found a boat yet...there are so many available after all. Yes, prices are too high across the board and will correct, but it's harder than that...it comes down to design and build....really basic stuff. There are very few boats available that are both decent sailing and built to hold up over time. I think I can list the boats that fit our criteria on one hand. A rare breed indeed!
Hi O'Kelly's. Love that you check in with these guys. Really hope you find that special boat for your selves.
Performance cruising catamaran is the new buzz word. I disagree with you that these boats are likely to come down much in price. Lagoon, Fountain, Lepard, Bali…yes likely correction in pricing because too many on the market.
What kind of boat are you After and what price range?
All very good practical and honest to oneself thinking! Can’t go wrong……..
Great sailing cruising cats are hard to find! Just ask the Kelly’s!!
We spent 3 years searching for our 30 year old Crowther 48. We hear the argument from the condomaran crowd that you spend 90% of your time at anchor and that sailing performance is not worth the sacrifice in space and comfort. But what if you love sailing? We are cruising the pacific and sail long distances fairly frequently and really look forward to each passage because our boat is so much fun to sail. Coming from beach cat racing and ocean sailing on a fast trimaran, there was no way we would be able to enjoy sailing some of the bricks that are tagged as “performance cruising cats”
Love your channel!!!
Actually we think we may be anchored next to your old boat here in Antigua! The trimaran Spirit?
Hi. Are HH and Gunboat bricks or real performance cats from your opinion?
We sold our Leopard 40 in December after doing 25 000nm of ocean sailing with her and managed to buy a Catana 47 Hull no 1. This boat had one previous owner and was the flagship boat for Catana at the European boat shows in 2010 and the original owner bought her in June 2010. He did 2 Atlantic crossings with her including returning from Brazil to Cape Town through the Southern Atlantic. She has the performance package with Carbon mast, hydranet sails Carbon bowsprit etc. like yourself I don’t kill others working on my boat so we started mid December and pulled out both engines and saildrives and rebuilt the engine bays and loads of new yanmar parts to the engines and sail drives and finally launched her last week. As with yours our instruments are mostly broken Furuno screens etc so we are dealing with that currently but can’t wait to get out and do some sailing with her !
Cool! Sounds like a good boat to play with. The electronics are such a hard one to keep simple and most of all reliable. Though the basic necessary instruments are way better than they used to be for reliability. It is when you start to add all the nice features it starts getting unreliable
Well said. Get the right boat/equipment for your personal needs. Take the time to make it yours. Have a vision. Sail away! I'm right behind you in my journey to refitting a 40 year old racer.
Cool, what 40 year old race boat are you working on?
A 1980 aluminum hull IOR Doug Peterson custom formerly named Flamboyant, aka Charisma V here in southern California. Getting her ready for Trans Pac. Love your setup...looks solid.
@@MFeezorgood luck in the Pacific 👍
Hi Shayne and Anna. As an owner of a 1991 Catana, I listen and watch your posts intently and review them regularly to learn what I need to do to my Catana. So thank you for sharing, I am so appreciative and blessed to have your leadership. Most of my criteria when I bought Swift was along the same lines as you. I sold my Nacra 5.2 that I sailed for most of my life and bought Swift because Swift sails like my beach cat. Lol. I remember sailing Swift for the fist time and saying she sails like my Nacra. Well...this is a public forum so I won't bore everyone with my chatter. At this point I wish I had your access to materials (cup masts) and skills working with carbon graphite composites. I understand the engineering and design cause that is what I do but I lack the practical fabrication experience. At any rate I will be modifying Swift to make her even better than she is now. Number one on my list are the bulkheads and chainplates.
Hey Dana what hull# you got. I got 16 I think
@@filyp1984 Humm...good question. I don't know. I will see if that is in my paperwork. Where one find this number on the hull? Sales claimed it was a Catana 48S, there were only one or two of those made but I have not been able to locate any independent verification.
@@filyp1984 Found it, it is hull #1. Still nothing to prove it is the 48S but anyway that is what they say.
@@danahawthorne1633 if it's 48 it can be 48s or 48r
What year is it?
Mine is #15i was wrong
@@filyp1984 She was built in 1991.
Afternoon Shane, New subscriber here. After watching the O'kellys video where you and Nick covered how to evaluate used boats. In addition after checking out a couple of your videos I just had to click the subscribed button. Looking forward to some great sails. Be happy, be safe
Glad to have you onboard. Make sure you have a look at our website. We are trying to put lots of info there for everyone www.youngbarnacles.com
Great info !
We had considered to go with the idea like you as one of the option to get a multihull which will suit our preferences. We wanted true blue water sailing catamaran, which offer a combination of lightness, solidity, power, speed, and safety with well-balanced level of comfort, but with the direction to the REAL performance. Finally unsatisfied with the offerings on the market, we decided to design and build our catamaran ourselves using state-of-the-art materials and technology. In that way arises just now our "CarbonBee".
Nevertheless, I think, your way to get that what you want is the best solution to consider for many future sailors. The big issue however is to choose right catamaran to adapt.
There are not many options if you are looking for a true performance catamaran. Our old Catana42s is great but there are not that many of them around.
I really like this channel. So much knowledge and perspective.
Cheers mate
Awesome info guys, my first was an A class last was a aluminium 53 ft Crowther, lived on for 13 years, loved it.
Can't wait to see the solution for the A-frame sheeting system :D Cheers for the vid, always so edumicational and interesting.
🙄 new mainsheet system or maybe just 2 rudders?.....
@@youngbarnacles both
You two touched on dagger boards in your video. Just a suggestion, can you do a full video on these? We have a cat with daggerboards and would greatly appreciate some more info on how to sail with these….thanks and great video.
Yes. We are working on a dagger board video.
Absolutely loved this insight. Thank you both !
Glad you enjoyed it!
Super informative ... thanks
Another excellent insightful and helpful video, thank you!
Another Master Class - add this to the O’Kelly’s channel for a very complete overview of buying a cat or any other boat for that matter
Yeah the O'kelly's have shown a great deal of the "good and bad" things about trying to find a good second hand boat. it is a difficult process to find something to fit your needs
Great Vid. Regardless, noobs will be blinders on, "wow! look how good it performs", pay over value for one, then be like, WTF! because they paid little attention to the diy rebuild/mods.
Another great technical sailing video. Very inspiring! Keep up the good work!
Thanks, will do!
Really enjoy your vids-- I always learn stuff. I've just bought a Pescott Summersalt 35' cat. For almost all the same reasons you did-- she has already sailed around Australia, built of WRC and epoxy ( I know the guy who supervised the build). She was cheap and sails like a witch! So far nothing really needs to be added, the only thing not working is the anchor winch. The 'price' we paid is that she does not have full headroom in the bridgedeck-- thankfully I'm a short arse so it's liveable with. Currently sailing down the coast from Townsville to Sydney-- she flew and handled huge squalls with aplomb! I'm delighted with her. BTw, I know the crowther cat you sailed in pittwater-- however it was Brett Crowther who designed it, not Lock-- it's still out there sailing. Phil
Sweet! Your Townsville to Sydney sounds awesome. I helped build Warrior Princess in Cairns. Technically speaking it was Stewart Bloomfield who designed her. He actually came up and sailed the maiden voyage with us.
@@youngbarnacles ah yes, it was Stuart... she flies around Pittwater-- wipes the floor with all of us.
Great drone shots guys......
It's so cool Markus thank you! Every video will have a drone shot in it now 😂😁🤪
Great video. Thanks very much.
Ok fellow YB fans, how about a little poll here? As our heroes custom-modernize this boat, what new production boat does Paikea become comparable to? I'm going to vote with the Dazcat 1295, for what I think is similar weight, hull design philosophy, rig power, ergonomics, etc. This performance plus room-for-five is a tough nut to crack in 40-45' under a million bucks USdollars. Any other votes?
PS - Anna woulda needed at least a 55' tri to get enough room for her boys in 3 hulls ;)
I didn’t know dazcat brand before. Dazcat ocean cruiser is calling my name. Great suggestion
@@LesiavanderWoman amazing boats. Let me know if you want to split one, ‘cause a million bucks is a bit much for going at it solo. Hull each?
Anna et Shayne
Merci pour cet apport essentiel à la compréhension des problématiques qui se posent pour tenter de trouver le catamaran d'occasion qui correspondra au mieux à nos critères issus de vos expériences
Je dirai à propos de Shayne avec beaucoup de bienveillance :
Ce type est diaboliquement génial
merci beaucoup 😃
One aspect I rarely see discussed is how righting moment scales with size - double the size means sixteen times the righting moment! And that's why small multihulls are a no go area, with a 42 footer like yours being in my mind the lower limit of what is truly seaworthy. At the larger end the scaling means that the loads get very scary......
Hi Nigel, you are spot on about righting moment and how it dictates the feel of a multihull. It is crazy how fast the loads go up with bigger and heavier boats, this is one of the things we see scare new owner off their new boats
@@youngbarnacles not enough of them are scared enough in my view. I see owners doing scary stuff frequently. Overloading and overcanvassing the boat. Fast beam reaches......
Again a Grate Video and for me still something to learn. As an Owner of a Freydis 46 (2002), I agree with many of your comments and I did lots of that you did on my boat. Finally I made it to „my boat“, as the basic structure of this design was worth all that effort. As said, Head on, we are on the same wave! Would be good to share expirence by e-Mail.
Really cool boat the Freydis, nice and simple.
Thanks guys another good un
Cheers Rick
Great video, guys. Thanks for the information download!
I'm still Binge watching and aren't up to where you gut the inside and replace with fibre glass ... great idea , forget keeping up with the Joneses s most do to create status but their not real sailors unlike you 5. keep them coming
Great episode 👏
Cheers mate
As an ex-mono guy I had to experiment with daggerboard placement and learn as we went -this might be a good idea to devote a whole video to it, with shots of the sea conditions you are in, and the daggerboard position, and explain why the board was at that level etc. Now buying old boats - structure be damned! What condition are the cushions and curtains in? That's the criteria... Sorry to hear about the ply inserts.... Old Outremers I sure liked even with the super skinny solid glass hulls
I agree, I would very much like a tutorial on dagger board use please.
Great info. New to channel and watching from Orlando, Florida. Thank you for such good advice. Could you publish a list of the boat brands to consider and which would not be good based on design and build quality?
Ah the Holy Grail! That list would totally depend on your requirements and personal circumstances/skillset. Do you intend to do Bluewater cruising or is it cocktails in the bay? There is a different answer for each different person. We did do a recent video on our criteria for a second hand catamaran. That may help?
Great video! Would be cool if you two gave some of your metrics that would qualify a boat or at least give a good indication it’s a proper sailing catamaran. Like D/L, SA/D ratios or speeds you should be able to achieve under certain conditions, not just surfing down a wave for a couple of glorious seconds. Lots of misinformation out there by other TH-camr’s claiming boats are “performance” cats that most definitely are not considered so by most experts like yourself. Cheers!
😄 yeah Im sure there are some bold claims to performance.
We are working on an article to help define and understand performance. It was actually quite tricky to try and define it once I started writing it, but it became easy to define when you look at it from an efficiency point of view of energy put in(windspeed) to the out put of boat speed.
@@youngbarnacles Yes, I can understand how challenging it can be. I think you have to preface with saying..."it depends" as each boat is unique. One ORC57 rocket ship of a catamaran might be not have any A/C, water maker, extra freezer, use an iPad as a chart plotter, 50' of anchor chain instead of 200', no teak flooring in the cockpit, no solar, no genset, 5kWh of batteries instead of 25kWh, etc. and perform like the polars from the manufacturer suggest. Then if you take another identical ORC57 and equip it for actually living aboard and circumnavigating, then put your family and 2,500kg of "stuff" on it, you suddenly are disappointed that it's not much faster than a Privilege 580 and way less comfortable. (But you'll still able to sail upwind at least 🙂 ) The devil is in the details!
Hi, great channel. Question, any structural problem(s) ar all after 30 y. Etc. ?..
No but there is general degradation of plywood inserts which is to be expected after 30+ years. This is why we had to replace the chainplates.
Thanks for making a video instead of just replying to my comment :)
You're welcome. Hopefully it answered some questions. We'll go through Paikea and the upgrades + planned upgrades in the next episodes
@@youngbarnacles Wonderful stuff! Thanks
Interesting. I,m curious why you wouldn't,t do a shoinning or say a dix??? Wasn,t the dix 550 the DNA for the original gunboat?? What would you do to say take a dix boat to top cruising cat?? I assume much of what you,ve done to your boat,, but where are the red herrings and major reworks??
My Fountaine Pajot is excellent at what it was designed for. Anchoring. I do wonder if I could reduce the ridiculous amount of leeway I get upwind by templating the keels into a proper NACA foil. For instance, sailing at 35⁰ apparent I can still maintain decent boat speed, but I'm making 12ish degrees of leeway. Or is it just a lost cause?
If you've never looked at FP keels, they're very blunt on leading and trailing edges. Almost square, a couple inches across. Between the leading and trailing edges it's somewhat foil shaped, but I doubt it's anywhere near the correct shape.
Hi John, 😄 anchoring is a good attribute to have. Yes having good foil shapes helps a lot. However the biggest issue facing the short keel is the low aspect ratio of them. Having the nice foil sections will produce nice lift only to have it lost out the bottom of the short keels. A solution is to make the keels deeper but then the ability to be at anchor in shallower water goes away, making what the boat does well become bad.
Hey Kiwis! (new sub. League or Union?) would luv to hear more tech specs, pros & cons re "canted", can't find bugger all about it on google bro.
We've got stuff on canted hulls on our website. Look on our open forum.
Great video and transformation of the boat! Do you have an opinion about the Edelcat 35 or 36. I am looking at boats and a catamaran or a trimaran would be great but they are all so expensive (especially the once that are actually livable). The edelcat seems to be more affordable though.
I apologize if I am bothering, but I do not know much about what is good and what not so any help would be highly appreciated.
we don't know much about the Edelcat sorry.
Because Catana is a cool name? :)
Absolutely 😎
good advice, unfortunatly free advice is never listened to, and the people who really need to hear this will only watch the tits and arse channels if you know what i mean. youre adding value to your boat in lots of ways by having great skills, good move.
watching from waiheke
Ah Waiheke 😍
What do you think of NV Sailing 60ft racer
It's a cool project and a good ocean going vessel.
However a 60ft boat still needs a big boat budget 😬 Sails etc will be expensive to replace. 🤔
Good to see someone trying to breathe new life into the old girl though. We wish them all the best.
@@youngbarnacles thank you
Ah that pesky budget thing....
😂 gets us all the time!