So now that the battle tome has dropped, all the warscrolls are locked out in the app unless you buy the book. I get that GW has to make money, but say I'm at a tournament, going against dozens of potential armies and lists once the rest of the battle tomes drop. How am I supposed to know that what my opponent is telling me about his units is true if I don't own that particular battle tome? I have nothing to use as reference unless I screenshot all of the warscrolls in the Honest Wargamer's review video. "What's that? You don't own the book? Yes, my skeletons hit and wound on 2's. Sorry mate." This is a GW money grab, plain and simple that is going to turn people off. There needs to be a balance between making money and being able to play the game once you've invested in an army or two. The 3.0 app did that well. Most of the book was locked, but warscrolls were still viewable. What a shame. ***Begins taking screenshots***
Most tournaments require the player to bring his / her Battle tome (AOS) or Codex (40k) for precisely this reason. Using the War Scroll app is just something done to make it easier for the player of the army and doesn't usually change the requirement of you needing to bring the book. If you don't bring your own book, then if you want to continue playing then you need to hand over your phone - tablet to your opponent / TO if they question anything.
Love that you get these out before the gw partners lol. Pretty shocked at the lack of new material. Really expected to see more fleshed out formations, more artifacts and hero traits, and at least another option for spell lore. Feels wild to paywall this compared to the free version.
Frankly, I'm not surprised too much. As soon as the the faction packed released I saw that GW was removing a lot of things (warlock bombadier and engineer casting, reducing grey seer and archwarlock, lowering armor saves, overcharging of personal weapons, etc, etc.) I had a sinking feeling that the Skaven were falling into crisis mode. Not as far as balancing goes, but in terms of the cool/wierd/desperate (also known as the FUN things) things we could do. We've been moved a little closer to vanilla flavor. There is zero reason for me to buy this book. And I'm the kind of guy who bought the Dark Angels codex knowing how bad that was.
Thanks Rob - really helpful review. I don't have a lot of time so listening to this whilst getting in a bit of other hobby really helps to give me an initial steer of what I want to try out. Much food for thought, yes-yes!
Skaven are Kruleboyz that don't have to hit a 3+ for everything and have more than 3 units. If gnaw holes were the KB terrain, you'd have to roll to set it up, roll to use it and then on a 1 take D3 mortals.
@@Kinhussar mood, I've been struggling as well and I did great with them last ed Last ed they felt easy to learn and hard to master and now I struggle making a fun playing list 😅
Unless the points change. Stormvirmins bodyguard ability for the 5+ ward is worse then other units in other factions that do the same. Lumineth have the same unit as stormvirmin with better saves and give themselves the 5+ ward as well and only cost a few points more. 2 health might help them a lot. But GW is GW :))
did a single warscroll get better? Think the arch-warlock is the only thing that changed that wasnt a nerf, but it was kinda a nerf to jezzails/warplighting cannons to change his rule so idk if i can count that....
Like I've said you were playing this edition with one hand behind your back. Like all the other armies it's centre piece based and you didn't have vizzik
yeah it seems somebody messed up big time getting that to print... the guy with the gun is literally on the page they should have been 2 hp at least with the current stats to fill the medium infantry role skaven lacks
I have been playing Verminous since 1st edition. My basic list was big bricks of clan Rats, that would be buffed by a claw lord, which gave them an extra attacks from gnash naw, and a warbringer for Death Frenzy, which let models in the unit pile in and attack when killed. I would back them up with lightning cannons and hidden warpfire throwers. 3rd Edition I added Plague Priests to add curse to the mix for mortals on 6's. It was extremely satisfying to watch enemy units implode when charging into my lowley clan rats. I am going to have to really rethink my List. I may initially start playing a Pestilens list with the new Vermin lord and go priest heavy.
Great review Rob! I think you underrate the Lord of Assassins ability for the Deceiver, because in my experience redeploys win games and getting a consistent 4" inches is so nice.
Thanks for the Vid. I have a question for a situation I've run into occasionally, if anybody has an answer. Gnawhole Volatile Ground - Models cannot end moves ON Any Part of this Terrain feature. Well, what about Under? some parts of the Gnawholes stick out (at least mine do), they have the wooden Beams that stick out on some places. I was playing a Sons of Behemat who wanted to Power Through his Mega Gargant and the ending of his move would have required his base needing to be places so it was very obviously under the corner of the Gnawhole Wooden Beam. It was a game changing dilemma of course.. I had placed the Gnawholes specifically with those beams in mind to zone things out. But the rules say On .. I argued it was techncally 'on' .. and he argued that it would be the same as placing a unit Under his Gargants arm. In fact.. are these beams that stick out from the Gnawholes counted as distance, in terms of moving units and setting up reinforcements or returned units? Anybody have any opinions on this? I imagine it will come up often in the next couple months.
The simple answer is to agree before. Specify the options then just let your opponent choose if the beams count. So many problems solved with a pre game chat
@@thehonestwargamerstreams Ya. Good point. As the Skaven player with this terrain and aware of this issue, it would be my responsibility to address this issue before it is an issue via Pre-Game chat. Thanks!
I do not think having the base under one of the beams would count as being "on" the model. Most people don't even use the beams (I do). I have always used the main circle of rocks to take measurements from instead of the beams. This may not be required, but its way easier to defend and remember.
@@shivvy7 Yes. thank you. a counter point is that there are both strategic advantages and disadvantages to having the beams. but, about a base being under is allowed or not, another way to look at it, as it would be different depending on the model. For example, a Gargant can more easily tuck their base under while a Calvary unit couldn't. The beams can be used to block movement, like if a hole is placed strategically in a corner and a small hero could possibly ride the gnawhole in and be somewhat protected by the beams. So if the beams could blockmovement, do they count for D3 wounds if a unit passes over them? And likewise, give an extra bit of zoning and deploying units that the beams could give. I would also argue that we purchase the Gnawholes .. so why not use the strategic advantages that are open to us unless the rules state otherwise. But I would have to agree with Rob. This seems like a good example of a situation where a bit of pregame communication would help. :)
I'm glad you at least covered the Armies of the Renown here. I'm having the sneaking suspicion we won't be getting much changes from our faction packs and GW will rely on new AoR to sell books and new faction flavour.
Honestly the art, Anvil of Apotheosis & Path to Glory look like the winners. Skaven players are jumping with joy at what the Anvil is allowing like Moulder leaders getting more weapons & abilities while riding gnaw-beasts. Seems these are for the Narrative players while Matched go for the cheaper Gamer edition books.
First impressions of many of the warscrolls look pretty naff or mediocre. However point costs will be a big factor in really deciding if units are worth it or not. This is certainly an army that is going to need very strong synergy in lists for it to work too, otherwise it will whiff hard.
I always figured the first few battle times would be fully in line with the index, it makes sense given they are written maybe a year or more in advance. I think they have aimed for a more streamlined game and would have been to light on if they had saved up stuff for the battletomes. The dream was always that they would release all the codexes at the same time at the start of an addition so maybe this is it….
Fast-quick that was! Would love RoR’s sections in the future to add some spice to what a faction may want to look at from their fellow Grand Alliance comrades to compliment them.
I've got my skaven army all sorted now so this is perfect timing. Also just finishing kragnos for my sons of behemat army so me and my daughter can play as she loves the rat boys.
As someone pretty new to wargaming, how many units could I expect to fit into that "wholey six inches" that Plague Furnace needs to buff and nerf units? I feel like having 40 Plague Monks within that is too tough, but there aren't really many other pestilens units. Would I stack it next to a Plague Pack or two, or your Verminlord? Would i have reinforced Monks doing their thing elsewhere and then a 20 unit that fits in the aura and therefore slightly Bodyguards the furnace?
@@thehonestwargamerstreams well it is more fun to run crazy things. one of my other armies is almost pure Squigs :D even if you dont win you will have fun and that is the biggest win :D
As someone coming over from 40k, and someone who used to love the skavebln back in the days of 7th edition fantasy, i'm really let down with this. I was expecting so much more from the first battletome. New spells, new artifacts, new heroic traits, new battleplans. But it's all the same. It feels like a big anti-climax. And that's sad, because i really enjoyed my first few weeks in AOS. Guess I'll just enjoy the AOS side of the hobby by watching your fun videos!
HWG team, I'm very interested in hearing your thoughts on the comparison of Skaven and Stormcast capabilities - as it seems the two armies have a massive overlap in their rules and abilities.
@thehonestwargamerstreams @thehonestwargamerstreams I'd LIKE to hear that Stormcast are going to be as good as Skaven seem to be... But, I'm not holding out hope. Seems like Skaven have no inherent weaknesses. Effective High Rend Shooting, mass volume shooting, excellent mobility, fantastic wound density, highly impactful melee units, teleports, reserves, multiple Stacking bonuses... deepstrike in the Opponents turn, deepstrike directly into combat... Sure, a lot of their really excellent abilities are on die rolls... but still... crazy
Great overview. Like the codex. I can build a fun army. I will say GW keeps making the expensive must have priest models for a competitive list. I still have not purchased King Brodmeister or whatever his name is for my Gargants. Ah well I have a Hellpit Abom and other fun stuff. I agree fun is best way to play.
Yeh, i really dont understand Army's of Renown. They just seem like worse, more restrictive versions of sub-factions from 2nd edition. Really feels like anything you gain from them should just have been wrapped up in the existing army rules without needing this extra thing to remember.
Question on the warp lightning vortex, currently as written, there is no distance it has to be away from enemies, can you set them up in combat range of enemy? If so you could use magical intervention to pin an enemy in their deployment zone unless they want to retreat.
Regarding the Plague monks, I think you forgot to consider them being able to use the pestilence battleformation pile-in. That's really the only upside of those folks other than probably being cheaper than clanrats again. So currently sometimes I'll find myself taking 20 just because 20 clanrats don't fit, even if I don't play pestilence. I think the crit mortal prayer thing is a little bit overstated at times. It's not like you are going to get it on every turn, let alone when you most need it to. We all have played the game of bouncing between gaining ritual points only to lose them on a 1 on the next try, haven't we? I don't know about Vizziks horde, but Thanquols army makes monster lists maybe a little more interesting at least in a casual setting. My guess is you lose so much good shit, that it doesn't end up the best way to play the army in tournaments. Btw. are we 100% sure you are locked into the manifestation lore of 1 for each army? You should be able to still pick the generic ones as well, right?
man, i want to play a board just swarming with clan rats and wizards/priest for buffs. how many units of clan rats can 1 board hold? i want to find out sooooooo bad........SkavenTIDE!
Serious question on points, do we really think GW has the points set to release online, or do we think they're holding off so they can listen to all the pundits and then figure out what the points should be. I mean they've proven that they don't really understand their own game enough to point cost units fairly. 40K has had the same issue with some WILDLY under/overcosted units.
dam fine question. if i had to guess, judging for the fact that i no longer believe that they play test anything anymore because...why would you when you can just release a completely broken system, let players play said system they implement fix's to that system they player base wants therefore allowing GW to NOT pay people to play test and skipping months of test play, i'd put my money on the latter.
I was really bummed by the lack of new interesting things, but the plaguepack's warscroll does it for me. It allows for really cool modeling project to build and paint diverse plague pack to be able to play multiples with sculpt variety and it's enough for me
Like expected, books remain strangely neccessary but a bad value proposition. I'm still picking it up but purely for the Path to Glory and Anvil content. Plus hopefully the delivery of the Lore is a bit better this time around since the core book made me quite excited with their new 'style'
"As long as he's cheap enough, he's ok." (Brood Terror) Well... he's 300 points. And Vizzik is 450. I don't know why GW keeps overcosting Skaven units. Skaven were doing horribly in 3rd, and now 4th edition as well.
If I was playing Skaven I would be a danger to my own army as any instance of 'more more' I would use it all the time even if it caused models to well explode!
I’m pretty sure that wither is supposed to be unlimited not skitterleap because in the app it says wither and it would make more sense especially since wither has been downgraded a bit this edition
I don’t understand when they attach negatives to to abilities. There are 100 war scrolls in the game that give raw benefits, no downside outside of the random role. None of the abilities that are given here stand out to me as so broken they would need a downside. I could be wrong because I don’t play every army, but I’m pretty sure no one else in the entire game has powers that give them an OK buff and also kill themselves AND don’t work. If my downside is I can take damage when I use an ability then that ability better always work AND there’s the chance that I could take damage
super sad that the Plagueclaw lost its 2d6 damage against large infantry units rule, was much better imo, but than again everything got taken down a notch this edition.
Overall I was pretty happy for AoS when they revealed our indexes would be pretty extensive unlike in 40k, but it seems thats thw reason because our index is practically our battletome. As of right now our options are way too few and especially as a Kharadron player where we dont utilize magic or prayers that we get more gadegts and gizmos instead to compensate.
Hopefully that “might receive more traits & abilities” will ring truer for the other battletomes past Skaven & SCE. Secondary hope is this will be the edition factions will get the useful unit updates they need to expand their strategies like Fyreslayer cavalry, Deepkin heavy infantry/monster infantry or Kharadron new ships, energy ships or Gholemkind sub-faction that unlocks heavy golem troops & their own priests.
@thehonestwargamerstreams Haha, funny this thread starts with someone disliking battletomes being sold & outdated toward the end of an edition and now we got the Monkey Paw cure. No more late battletome blues, what we index see is what ya’ get to the end! We’re all equal at the starting line now.
They outright said the first two books stormcast and skaven won't be that different. However followup books may have significant alterations. So keep an eye out for that.
as a 40k player... who came into AOS only playing rats and getting thaquil and the combat patrol box.... im kinda sad that the big hero i liked and the meh army i had fun with doesnt work after only playing them together 3 times.... I shouldn't have to go and buy new guys just to have a so so army because half my army is restricted..... I work, Im a student, and I do my own side hobby gig to make some fun money.... this doesnt mean ontop of everything else I have the money to go buy - add point value- worth of units more just so i can play and have fun... without feeling like im at a dis adv compared to my oppenent that has less troop restrictions than me on a budget... I hope they fix this... but i doubt it... thank you though as a content creator sharing the tomb so im not spending $90 cad to get my simple rules.
Well. Thank you for covering this. Excellent video, very informative, it's just the subject material is meh. I love our new models. But I am thoroughly disappointed in 4th edition rules for Skaven. All the old flavor has been watered down. Grey seers, archwarlocks, bombadiers, engineers, screaming bell, rat ogres, the list goes on and on of units that are less than they were, or radically different. Rules lost, armor reduced, casting gutted, a lot of flavor gone. Thanks for covering the book, and appreciate the work.
1:19:12 greyseer is also super good for magical Intervention you can Cast a spell as If it were your Hero Phase. Which means you can 3d6 Cast and since the Roll cant be modified you also dont suffer the -1 to cast penality.
So we still only get three hero traits and artefacts when 40K gets three per detachment (Battle Formations for us)? I'll be honest I've basically just lost all interest in 4.0 and will be refocusing to 40k and OW which is gutting as I loved where the lore was going but they've gutted the choice and depth from this game Thanks for the early heads up Rob!
So they get rid of the only two competitive aspects of skaven from before (pestilence pile in, Jezzails being good) and don’t change a single other thing. Are they trying to make us be a crap army? Also what’s the point of making a book when basically nothing has changed. Ig they only care abt money
It's the curse. Whoever is in the starter sucks for years to come. I went through it with Nighthaunt, now I'm going to get it with Skaven. Luckily Nighthaunt is doing great. Lol
@@thehonestwargamerstreams Oh i don't disagree. Just stating its odd that the 'filler' spell wither loses unlimited and the good utility spell skitterleap gains it. :D But hey, at least now if you dont get skitterleap off the first time, you can just try again. quite reliable. :)
@@thehonestwargamerstreams it’s just that I bought the harbinger of decay which is an amazing mini and it is unplayable (tried it in path to glory, still useless 😅)
Repackaging the free index with some art and lore and charging people for it is a new low even for GW. If every 4.0 battletome is a reprint, with no expansion on the often generic, half baked or unplayable index rules then this edition is a huge fail for me. Boycott these.
Haha, technically that’s not new. That’s exactly how the early Early AoS1 battletomes operated. Art and lore books that just copy-pasted the free Warscrolls and rules into them. With how fast those turned over in 6 months into the Sylvaneth & Ironjawz tomes having new spells & traits locked behind them to push sales that’s probably the same system here we’ll see those mentioned “might have new traits & abilities” show up in next year’s battletomes as well.
@@ce4879that’s assuming they haven’t all been written already… Apart from it being unscrupulous/ predatory business practice it’s massively disappointing and (as Rob said in the video) boring.
Eh, SCE & Skaven getting the biggest range update AND early rules upgrade would honestly feel pretty pay-to-win, I’m okay if the balance is early* tomes simpler(and more for the lore & Anvils of Apotheosis) until next year they get cranked up to build hype. *S2D, Darkoath could use a hotfix but otherwise they did just get a lot of new stuff too.
@@ce4879 I’m also absolutely fine if that’s the case. What I’m worried about is that all the battletome’s receive similar treatment (aka nothing), minus the big range refresh.
Dang that is kinda tragic. Skaven were already struggling and they go ahead and nerf jezzails? Keep everything else pretty much the same? I guess point drops could still do something
I think the best way to look at it is that the index was just this tome but without all its key synergy pieces like, Vizzik and the plaguepack. Now they are added
The battletome is literally almost identical to the index. The only change i notice so far is the switching around of which spell is unlimited. Wtf, its a copy and paste job but now we pay to have basically the free indexes now.
awesome, going to paint while watching, i just hope slaves and soulblight are comming soon aswell, then my 3 fav armies are done and i can tinker on some lists
The only reason I can see for the army of renown is if you don't have the faction terrain. Your not losing as much but gaining back a smaller buff at a cost.I know if your playing competitively you'll probably have the game holes but friendly games on a budget the choice of an impressive unit of faction terrain in previous editions were not so much of an easy choice. It's not like GW ever supplied an abundance of them either.
Not really I could just screenshot the page when you showed it on the video or search the internet. I've only ever really got the rulebook on birthdays or for christmas.
You didn't seem to notice that they nerfed corrupted earth into the ground. Prior you didn't need to be in combat and could murder lust, now you have to be in combat. Just absolutely garbage now because pestilens are so week. God GW can't let us have anything good. Overall pretty disappointed in how lazy these rules are. But that being said, love the game !
@@thehonestwargamerstreams I have a bias on because these are the models I play with in my army but it's the doomflayers and moulder. Doomflayer is now no longer guaranteed to get the 10" he needs to score take the flanks on turn one. It's going to bite me one day if I try and their points will go up. Master Moulder having a gun is a conflict of strategy. I don't really want to shoot a unit that I want to get long bomb charges into using the moulder buff to charge rolls. I will just have to adapt.
If someone wants to be a babe and to timestamps that would be great. I rushed to get this out and gotta move house!
Battle Traits 00:01:40
Battle Formations 00:09:55
Heroic Traits 00:14:36
Artefacts of Power 00:17:20
Spell Lore 00:19:22
Prayer Lore 00:22:41
Manifestation lore 00:26:34
Vizzik Skour 00:32:18
Thanqoul on Boneripper 00:40:10
Lord Skreech Verminking 00:44:40
Verminlord Deceiver 00:49:34
Verminlord Warbringer 00:52:57
Verminlord Corruptor 00:55:12
Plaguepack 00:58:03
Verminlord Warpseer 01:00:20
Arch-Warlock 01:03:30
Warplock Galvaneer 01:05:13
Warpvolt Scourgers 01:07:52
Warlock Bombadier 01:10:19
Warlock Engineer 01:11:44
Clawlord 01:12:45
Clawlord on Gnaw-Beast 01:14:53
Deathmaster 01:16:02
Grey Seer 01:17:43
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell 01:19:43
Krittok Foulblade 01:23:31
Stormvermin 01:25:52
Clanrats 01:27:54
Master Moulder 01:29:42
Plague Priest on Plague Furnace 01:31:12
Warp Lightning Cannon 01:32:48
Acolyte Globadiers 01:34:24
Stormfiends 01:36:27
Ratling Gun 01:39:40
Warpfire Thrower 01:41:22
Warplock Jezzails 01:42:15
Ratling Warpblasters 01:43:44
Rat Ogors 01:45:28
Brood Terror 01:47:43
Plagueclaw 01:49:26
Plague Monks 01:50:18
Hell Pit Abomination 01:51:51
Doom-Flayers 01:54:39
Warp-Grinder 01:56:18
Night Runners 01:57:57
Doomwheel 02:00:29
Breakdown on the Book 02:02:23
Armies of Renown - The Great-Grand Gnawhorde 02:06:25
Thanqoul's Mutated Menagerie 02:13:28
Thoughts on Army of Renown and Close-Out 02:18:45
Thank u🙏
Beautiful human
Updoot this Chad to the top!
Legend
Awesome
So now that the battle tome has dropped, all the warscrolls are locked out in the app unless you buy the book. I get that GW has to make money, but say I'm at a tournament, going against dozens of potential armies and lists once the rest of the battle tomes drop. How am I supposed to know that what my opponent is telling me about his units is true if I don't own that particular battle tome? I have nothing to use as reference unless I screenshot all of the warscrolls in the Honest Wargamer's review video. "What's that? You don't own the book? Yes, my skeletons hit and wound on 2's. Sorry mate." This is a GW money grab, plain and simple that is going to turn people off. There needs to be a balance between making money and being able to play the game once you've invested in an army or two. The 3.0 app did that well. Most of the book was locked, but warscrolls were still viewable. What a shame. ***Begins taking screenshots***
Most tournaments require the player to bring his / her Battle tome (AOS) or Codex (40k) for precisely this reason. Using the War Scroll app is just something done to make it easier for the player of the army and doesn't usually change the requirement of you needing to bring the book. If you don't bring your own book, then if you want to continue playing then you need to hand over your phone - tablet to your opponent / TO if they question anything.
Welcome to what 40k has been dealing with since the start of 10th ed. Not downplaying it, just GW being universally shitty
Bless you Rob now I can have something to watch while I paint my little guys 🐁
Hope you like it!
Love that you get these out before the gw partners lol. Pretty shocked at the lack of new material. Really expected to see more fleshed out formations, more artifacts and hero traits, and at least another option for spell lore. Feels wild to paywall this compared to the free version.
Frankly, I'm not surprised too much. As soon as the the faction packed released I saw that GW was removing a lot of things (warlock bombadier and engineer casting, reducing grey seer and archwarlock, lowering armor saves, overcharging of personal weapons, etc, etc.) I had a sinking feeling that the Skaven were falling into crisis mode. Not as far as balancing goes, but in terms of the cool/wierd/desperate (also known as the FUN things) things we could do. We've been moved a little closer to vanilla flavor. There is zero reason for me to buy this book. And I'm the kind of guy who bought the Dark Angels codex knowing how bad that was.
I'm just a motivated independent
Kinda sucks that I got the skavem warscolls at release and they now just added new stuff and changes making my warscolls useless again😢
Rob is the best, yes-yes!
THANKS THANKS
Jezzails move 6" +18" range for 24" or stay still and get 18"+6" for a 24" range. Who writes this rubbish
It wasn't me babe and I echo your thoughts
They rewrote the +1 to Hit on Stationary to be nothing. They probably didn't want to just delete it.
Its not the same, sometimes you have to move a bit to change angles etc, and now its only 18" after that. Sucks.
wait a minute... wheres the stormvermin with the rat gat?? they have the art plastered on the front but no rules for the rat gun??
Thanks Rob - really helpful review. I don't have a lot of time so listening to this whilst getting in a bit of other hobby really helps to give me an initial steer of what I want to try out. Much food for thought, yes-yes!
I'm so glad!! That's why I do it
Thanks for reading book, man :) Also, I appreciate your analysis. P.S. love the Juggz!
Glad you enjoyed!
This is amazing. Please don't tell anyone that I am STILL Undefeated with X2 Hellpit Aboms!!
UNDEFEATED
This TH-cam Thug is sending a virtual TH-cam hug. Thanks for the ace content Rob!
Anytime my friend
Skaven are Kruleboyz that don't have to hit a 3+ for everything and have more than 3 units.
If gnaw holes were the KB terrain, you'd have to roll to set it up, roll to use it and then on a 1 take D3 mortals.
This feels to real 😂
Its even more funny when peeps complain when my kb thing goes off and they don't even need to roll for their stuff etc
Yeah, I realize I neither have the 4.0 XP or skill to perform well with KB but it's kind of hard to learn with them.
@@Kinhussar mood, I've been struggling as well and I did great with them last ed
Last ed they felt easy to learn and hard to master and now I struggle making a fun playing list 😅
Both books are good
Unless the points change. Stormvirmins bodyguard ability for the 5+ ward is worse then other units in other factions that do the same. Lumineth have the same unit as stormvirmin with better saves and give themselves the 5+ ward as well and only cost a few points more. 2 health might help them a lot. But GW is GW :))
Often elves get better stuff. I think lrl are just always going to be good
did a single warscroll get better? Think the arch-warlock is the only thing that changed that wasnt a nerf, but it was kinda a nerf to jezzails/warplighting cannons to change his rule so idk if i can count that....
Like I've said you were playing this edition with one hand behind your back. Like all the other armies it's centre piece based and you didn't have vizzik
you can just spend the free CP on AoA for exactly the same result, never a nerf
@@Mentat_Chardo can you all out attack and covering fire together?
@@sheepys551you can't, each unit can only be given one command per phase. Can't Covering Fire and AoA unfortunately.
@@aenimal47 thats what i assumed, thanks
Why does the stormvermin champion not have a pistol in book when they made him a new model with a pistol?
yeah it seems somebody messed up big time getting that to print... the guy with the gun is literally on the page
they should have been 2 hp at least with the current stats to fill the medium infantry role skaven lacks
This comment made me lol in the most sad sigh way possible. You right.
I agree. Lazy rules writing
WE ARE THE RATS WE ARE THE RATS WE ARE THE RATS WE ARE THE RATS WE ARE THE RATS WE ARE THE RATS
WE ARE THE RATS WE ARE THE RATS
I love Thanquol... played him often in 4th
He's very different in this edition
The neutered my boy in this edition
I have been playing Verminous since 1st edition. My basic list was big bricks of clan Rats, that would be buffed by a claw lord, which gave them an extra attacks from gnash naw, and a warbringer for Death Frenzy, which let models in the unit pile in and attack when killed. I would back them up with lightning cannons and hidden warpfire throwers. 3rd Edition I added Plague Priests to add curse to the mix for mortals on 6's. It was extremely satisfying to watch enemy units implode when charging into my lowley clan rats.
I am going to have to really rethink my List. I may initially start playing a Pestilens list with the new Vermin lord and go priest heavy.
Just get the big guy and you'll do great!!
The Hellpit retaining the Companion keyword sucks considering the buffs in the moulder AoR.
Agreed
Great review Rob! I think you underrate the Lord of Assassins ability for the Deceiver, because in my experience redeploys win games and getting a consistent 4" inches is so nice.
Was there any mount traits? Or did I miss that.
Nope
Thanks for the Vid. I have a question for a situation I've run into occasionally, if anybody has an answer. Gnawhole Volatile Ground - Models cannot end moves ON Any Part of this Terrain feature. Well, what about Under? some parts of the Gnawholes stick out (at least mine do), they have the wooden Beams that stick out on some places. I was playing a Sons of Behemat who wanted to Power Through his Mega Gargant and the ending of his move would have required his base needing to be places so it was very obviously under the corner of the Gnawhole Wooden Beam. It was a game changing dilemma of course.. I had placed the Gnawholes specifically with those beams in mind to zone things out. But the rules say On .. I argued it was techncally 'on' .. and he argued that it would be the same as placing a unit Under his Gargants arm. In fact.. are these beams that stick out from the Gnawholes counted as distance, in terms of moving units and setting up reinforcements or returned units? Anybody have any opinions on this? I imagine it will come up often in the next couple months.
The simple answer is to agree before. Specify the options then just let your opponent choose if the beams count.
So many problems solved with a pre game chat
@@thehonestwargamerstreams Ya. Good point. As the Skaven player with this terrain and aware of this issue, it would be my responsibility to address this issue before it is an issue via Pre-Game chat. Thanks!
I do not think having the base under one of the beams would count as being "on" the model. Most people don't even use the beams (I do). I have always used the main circle of rocks to take measurements from instead of the beams. This may not be required, but its way easier to defend and remember.
@@shivvy7 Yes. thank you. a counter point is that there are both strategic advantages and disadvantages to having the beams. but, about a base being under is allowed or not, another way to look at it, as it would be different depending on the model. For example, a Gargant can more easily tuck their base under while a Calvary unit couldn't. The beams can be used to block movement, like if a hole is placed strategically in a corner and a small hero could possibly ride the gnawhole in and be somewhat protected by the beams. So if the beams could blockmovement, do they count for D3 wounds if a unit passes over them? And likewise, give an extra bit of zoning and deploying units that the beams could give. I would also argue that we purchase the Gnawholes .. so why not use the strategic advantages that are open to us unless the rules state otherwise. But I would have to agree with Rob. This seems like a good example of a situation where a bit of pregame communication would help. :)
I'm glad you at least covered the Armies of the Renown here. I'm having the sneaking suspicion we won't be getting much changes from our faction packs and GW will rely on new AoR to sell books and new faction flavour.
Those AoRs will not sell anything sadly
Honestly the art, Anvil of Apotheosis & Path to Glory look like the winners.
Skaven players are jumping with joy at what the Anvil is allowing like Moulder leaders getting more weapons & abilities while riding gnaw-beasts.
Seems these are for the Narrative players while Matched go for the cheaper Gamer edition books.
Well that was fast, thanks Rob!
🐀
Ive always been too quick
@@thehonestwargamerstreams A true winner always finishes first!
@@thehonestwargamerstreamsto quick to hit-hit some might say. I’m sorry that’s terrible.
Awesome review but I guess the datasheets for Volt-Klaw’s Engine Coven and Krittok’s Clawpack aren't out yet or are they not in the book??
I'm doing those separately
First impressions of many of the warscrolls look pretty naff or mediocre. However point costs will be a big factor in really deciding if units are worth it or not. This is certainly an army that is going to need very strong synergy in lists for it to work too, otherwise it will whiff hard.
I always figured the first few battle times would be fully in line with the index, it makes sense given they are written maybe a year or more in advance. I think they have aimed for a more streamlined game and would have been to light on if they had saved up stuff for the battletomes. The dream was always that they would release all the codexes at the same time at the start of an addition so maybe this is it….
Of course it would mean they should all be perfect and balanced though…
I guess it's like the old world but not giving us diversity in play style in the books is wack
Fast-quick that was!
Would love RoR’s sections in the future to add some spice to what a faction may want to look at from their fellow Grand Alliance comrades to compliment them.
I'll just make them solo videos
Noice!
I've got my skaven army all sorted now so this is perfect timing. Also just finishing kragnos for my sons of behemat army so me and my daughter can play as she loves the rat boys.
Have an amazing time
As someone pretty new to wargaming, how many units could I expect to fit into that "wholey six inches" that Plague Furnace needs to buff and nerf units? I feel like having 40 Plague Monks within that is too tough, but there aren't really many other pestilens units. Would I stack it next to a Plague Pack or two, or your Verminlord? Would i have reinforced Monks doing their thing elsewhere and then a 20 unit that fits in the aura and therefore slightly Bodyguards the furnace?
Skaven models are tiny, you can easily fit a unit of 40 on each side of him and a hero or so
You’re the best Rob !❤
LETS GOOOOO
Thank you❤
I'm running clan Skryre units so the Skryre detachment :D
So all that goes BOOM :D
GO WILD BABY
@@thehonestwargamerstreams well it is more fun to run crazy things.
one of my other armies is almost pure Squigs :D
even if you dont win you will have fun and that is the biggest win :D
is it true that not so much has changed to the Index Skaven with the old units?
Do the Acolyte Globadiers still have the ability to be used as infantry by clan skryer or not? imma be big sad if they took that away
As someone coming over from 40k, and someone who used to love the skavebln back in the days of 7th edition fantasy, i'm really let down with this.
I was expecting so much more from the first battletome. New spells, new artifacts, new heroic traits, new battleplans. But it's all the same. It feels like a big anti-climax. And that's sad, because i really enjoyed my first few weeks in AOS.
Guess I'll just enjoy the AOS side of the hobby by watching your fun videos!
If you are enjoying it then this won't change much but the game is still really fun
HWG team, I'm very interested in hearing your thoughts on the comparison of Skaven and Stormcast capabilities - as it seems the two armies have a massive overlap in their rules and abilities.
What would you want to hear?
@thehonestwargamerstreams @thehonestwargamerstreams I'd LIKE to hear that Stormcast are going to be as good as Skaven seem to be...
But, I'm not holding out hope. Seems like Skaven have no inherent weaknesses. Effective High Rend Shooting, mass volume shooting, excellent mobility, fantastic wound density, highly impactful melee units, teleports, reserves, multiple Stacking bonuses... deepstrike in the Opponents turn, deepstrike directly into combat...
Sure, a lot of their really excellent abilities are on die rolls... but still... crazy
Great overview. Like the codex. I can build a fun army. I will say GW keeps making the expensive must have priest models for a competitive list. I still have not purchased King Brodmeister or whatever his name is for my Gargants. Ah well I have a Hellpit Abom and other fun stuff. I agree fun is best way to play.
Yeh, i really dont understand Army's of Renown.
They just seem like worse, more restrictive versions of sub-factions from 2nd edition.
Really feels like anything you gain from them should just have been wrapped up in the existing army rules without needing this extra thing to remember.
I'm with you in that
Love ya work!
You too!
"Is it Good, no. Is it funny, yes." is the Skaven army motto isn't it?
Great as always! Some fun stuff in here. Trying not to be lured back to the rats!
Rock on!
Question on the warp lightning vortex, currently as written, there is no distance it has to be away from enemies, can you set them up in combat range of enemy? If so you could use magical intervention to pin an enemy in their deployment zone unless they want to retreat.
Because the manifestation doesn’t have a movement characteristic they can just walk out of combat with it.
@BestFloor99 thanks! So they can use a regular move ability to move away, but do they have to finish that move more than 3 away?
@trosty9921 nope, move 0 don't count as enemies in the movement phase
Hey Rob, you rock homie
Appreciate you x
Regarding the Plague monks, I think you forgot to consider them being able to use the pestilence battleformation pile-in.
That's really the only upside of those folks other than probably being cheaper than clanrats again.
So currently sometimes I'll find myself taking 20 just because 20 clanrats don't fit, even if I don't play pestilence.
I think the crit mortal prayer thing is a little bit overstated at times. It's not like you are going to get it on every turn, let alone when you most need it to.
We all have played the game of bouncing between gaining ritual points only to lose them on a 1 on the next try, haven't we?
I don't know about Vizziks horde, but Thanquols army makes monster lists maybe a little more interesting at least in a casual setting.
My guess is you lose so much good shit, that it doesn't end up the best way to play the army in tournaments.
Btw. are we 100% sure you are locked into the manifestation lore of 1 for each army? You should be able to still pick the generic ones as well, right?
So much better when it's Just Rob!!!❤
Awh thanks!!
Are they still going to be able to Ally with nurgle?
There's no allies in AOS anymore
@@thehonestwargamerstreamsaw no friends anymore 😢
32:25 - The Pope Rat = The Prat
or maybe - Prat Large and in Charge?
Is that me!? It's me.
Besides the new units were there any changes to old units?
Jezzails have been nerfed, arch warlock has been changed slightly, that’s it really
@@Blancmangebeing Master Moulder ability nerfed.
Not really no
@@thehonestwargamerstreams good, now I don’t have to spend money on a book.
@@bloodbathnbeyond oh that sucks :( was hoping to run lots of moulder stuff
man, i want to play a board just swarming with clan rats and wizards/priest for buffs. how many units of clan rats can 1 board hold? i want to find out sooooooo bad........SkavenTIDE!
DO THE TIDE
Serious question on points, do we really think GW has the points set to release online, or do we think they're holding off so they can listen to all the pundits and then figure out what the points should be. I mean they've proven that they don't really understand their own game enough to point cost units fairly. 40K has had the same issue with some WILDLY under/overcosted units.
dam fine question. if i had to guess, judging for the fact that i no longer believe that they play test anything anymore because...why would you when you can just release a completely broken system, let players play said system they implement fix's to that system they player base wants therefore allowing GW to NOT pay people to play test and skipping months of test play, i'd put my money on the latter.
They are already done. They never listen to pundits
I was really bummed by the lack of new interesting things, but the plaguepack's warscroll does it for me.
It allows for really cool modeling project to build and paint diverse plague pack to be able to play multiples with sculpt variety and it's enough for me
Totally agree
So if we bought the faction pack cards, will they send us updated cards?
Sadly not but most are the same
Might the armies of renown have discounted points costs for certain units?
Maybe but I don't think that will happen
Like expected, books remain strangely neccessary but a bad value proposition. I'm still picking it up but purely for the Path to Glory and Anvil content. Plus hopefully the delivery of the Lore is a bit better this time around since the core book made me quite excited with their new 'style'
Praise the algo praise the Rataclysm 🎉🎉🎉
RATADOOM
"As long as he's cheap enough, he's ok." (Brood Terror)
Well... he's 300 points. And Vizzik is 450.
I don't know why GW keeps overcosting Skaven units. Skaven were doing horribly in 3rd, and now 4th edition as well.
Just done a tier list. Go look
Sad that Moulder dont have their own unique Verminlord
Me too!!
Vizziks Staff hast the same profile like the big mangler squig ? 😄 this priest hits hard 😅
VERY HARD
If I was playing Skaven I would be a danger to my own army as any instance of 'more more' I would use it all the time even if it caused models to well explode!
I would also be that danger
you da best-best
Thank thank
I’m pretty sure that wither is supposed to be unlimited not skitterleap because in the app it says wither and it would make more sense especially since wither has been downgraded a bit this edition
Skitterleap is better
I don’t understand when they attach negatives to to abilities. There are 100 war scrolls in the game that give raw benefits, no downside outside of the random role. None of the abilities that are given here stand out to me as so broken they would need a downside. I could be wrong because I don’t play every army, but I’m pretty sure no one else in the entire game has powers that give them an OK buff and also kill themselves AND don’t work. If my downside is I can take damage when I use an ability then that ability better always work AND there’s the chance that I could take damage
Kruleboyz got kinda skavenfied look up sludgeraker beast and swamp calla shaman
super sad that the Plagueclaw lost its 2d6 damage against large infantry units rule, was much better imo, but than again everything got taken down a notch this edition.
It's still interesting but the book is stuffed with shooting
If it wasn't for your enthusiasm and content I would probably have ducked out on this edition to be honest.
Well that's super nice to say!
Overall I was pretty happy for AoS when they revealed our indexes would be pretty extensive unlike in 40k, but it seems thats thw reason because our index is practically our battletome. As of right now our options are way too few and especially as a Kharadron player where we dont utilize magic or prayers that we get more gadegts and gizmos instead to compensate.
Hopefully that “might receive more traits & abilities” will ring truer for the other battletomes past Skaven & SCE.
Secondary hope is this will be the edition factions will get the useful unit updates they need to expand their strategies like Fyreslayer cavalry, Deepkin heavy infantry/monster infantry or Kharadron new ships, energy ships or Gholemkind sub-faction that unlocks heavy golem troops & their own priests.
It's likely like this for most of the edition
@@thehonestwargamerstreamsThat's super sad honestly and I'm most likely selling both my full painted OBR and Kruleboyz since I can't stand them.
@thehonestwargamerstreams
Haha, funny this thread starts with someone disliking battletomes being sold & outdated toward the end of an edition and now we got the Monkey Paw cure.
No more late battletome blues, what we index see is what ya’ get to the end! We’re all equal at the starting line now.
They outright said the first two books stormcast and skaven won't be that different. However followup books may have significant alterations. So keep an eye out for that.
as a 40k player... who came into AOS only playing rats and getting thaquil and the combat patrol box.... im kinda sad that the big hero i liked and the meh army i had fun with doesnt work after only playing them together 3 times.... I shouldn't have to go and buy new guys just to have a so so army because half my army is restricted.....
I work, Im a student, and I do my own side hobby gig to make some fun money.... this doesnt mean ontop of everything else I have the money to go buy - add point value- worth of units more just so i can play and have fun... without feeling like im at a dis adv compared to my oppenent that has less troop restrictions than me on a budget...
I hope they fix this... but i doubt it...
thank you though as a content creator sharing the tomb so im not spending $90 cad to get my simple rules.
Stream was great! Algorithm!
Glad you enjoyed!
cant find it on the home page ! where did you get a copy of this ? ( as a skaven player , i need this book LOL )
NICE TRY COPPER
Well. Thank you for covering this. Excellent video, very informative, it's just the subject material is meh. I love our new models. But I am thoroughly disappointed in 4th edition rules for Skaven. All the old flavor has been watered down. Grey seers, archwarlocks, bombadiers, engineers, screaming bell, rat ogres, the list goes on and on of units that are less than they were, or radically different. Rules lost, armor reduced, casting gutted, a lot of flavor gone. Thanks for covering the book, and appreciate the work.
Yeah I wish the subject material was spicier
Short Version of this Video: is it good? no... is it funny? yes!
So i gonna play skaven!😂🐀🐀
Ratical review Rob!
RATICOOL
@@thehonestwargamerstreams *doffs cap*
The average on 18d6 is 63 XD thats a lot of warp lead
At Uni rn, could somebody tell me if the tome still has mini painting guides?
Nope
@@thehonestwargamerstreams for real? They just added them in 40K lmao, they were my favourite part of the tomes
@@thehonestwargamerstreams I just watched GMG's video on the tome and they are still here, why you lied to me?
15:54 retreat d3 Mortal?
Because that's the normal retreat ability. However the skaven ability lets skaven infantry and cavalry retreat without taking damage
Exactly
What the fuck did they do to my poor jezzails
Made them same as the other elite shooting
All the YES-YES
Only need the cards to play now
You got this
it's funny to me how the Verminlord Warbringer's Killing blow can't land the killing blow
He's a very sad model
1:19:12 greyseer is also super good for magical Intervention you can Cast a spell as If it were your Hero Phase. Which means you can 3d6 Cast and since the Roll cant be modified you also dont suffer the -1 to cast penality.
You can only use that ability on your turn though, so it doesn't work with magical intervention
Nope its the Same as the frigatte with countercharge @@shintobean
I like the greyseer
This doesn't actually work my dude. It's in your turn only.
@@massqueraider you are right
So we still only get three hero traits and artefacts when 40K gets three per detachment (Battle Formations for us)? I'll be honest I've basically just lost all interest in 4.0 and will be refocusing to 40k and OW which is gutting as I loved where the lore was going but they've gutted the choice and depth from this game
Thanks for the early heads up Rob!
Any time! Stay square based
I’m feeling much the same except AOS is my only tabletop game.
Clan rats ain’t getting that strike last second attack.
They literally are if it's your turn and they have strike last
So they get rid of the only two competitive aspects of skaven from before (pestilence pile in, Jezzails being good) and don’t change a single other thing. Are they trying to make us be a crap army? Also what’s the point of making a book when basically nothing has changed. Ig they only care abt money
It's the curse. Whoever is in the starter sucks for years to come. I went through it with Nighthaunt, now I'm going to get it with Skaven. Luckily Nighthaunt is doing great. Lol
The pile in change brings it in line. Did you see the raw output your army has?
All casting is on a 6+,....average roll on 2d6....7.....6+7= 13!!! Yes, yes, yes!!!
PERFECT
my poor snipers!! noooooo
I still they are good
The warp grinder’s ability is fully useless unless you think a player wouldn’t be able to easily keep another unit within 6”
I think you can do it
It almost seems like a mistake that skitterleap is unlimited and wither isnt. Almost like they accidentally swapped the two in the printing?
I think skitterleap is better as unlimitedn
@@thehonestwargamerstreams Oh i don't disagree. Just stating its odd that the 'filler' spell wither loses unlimited and the good utility spell skitterleap gains it. :D
But hey, at least now if you dont get skitterleap off the first time, you can just try again. quite reliable. :)
Nothing really new… no need to buy BT and I guess that characters that are useless now will stay useless during the 3 next years 😢
Thx Rob
I'm sorry you are gutted about it. Loads of love
@@thehonestwargamerstreams it’s just that I bought the harbinger of decay which is an amazing mini and it is unplayable (tried it in path to glory, still useless 😅)
Repackaging the free index with some art and lore and charging people for it is a new low even for GW. If every 4.0 battletome is a reprint, with no expansion on the often generic, half baked or unplayable index rules then this edition is a huge fail for me. Boycott these.
Never buy the books
Haha, technically that’s not new. That’s exactly how the early Early AoS1 battletomes operated. Art and lore books that just copy-pasted the free Warscrolls and rules into them.
With how fast those turned over in 6 months into the Sylvaneth & Ironjawz tomes having new spells & traits locked behind them to push sales that’s probably the same system here we’ll see those mentioned “might have new traits & abilities” show up in next year’s battletomes as well.
@@ce4879that’s assuming they haven’t all been written already… Apart from it being unscrupulous/ predatory business practice it’s massively disappointing and (as Rob said in the video) boring.
Eh, SCE & Skaven getting the biggest range update AND early rules upgrade would honestly feel pretty pay-to-win, I’m okay if the balance is early* tomes simpler(and more for the lore & Anvils of Apotheosis) until next year they get cranked up to build hype.
*S2D, Darkoath could use a hotfix but otherwise they did just get a lot of new stuff too.
@@ce4879 I’m also absolutely fine if that’s the case. What I’m worried about is that all the battletome’s receive similar treatment (aka nothing), minus the big range refresh.
380 for Vizzik seems WAY low. I bet he’s 450.
Let's see
Dang that is kinda tragic. Skaven were already struggling and they go ahead and nerf jezzails? Keep everything else pretty much the same? I guess point drops could still do something
I think the best way to look at it is that the index was just this tome but without all its key synergy pieces like, Vizzik and the plaguepack. Now they are added
The battletome is literally almost identical to the index. The only change i notice so far is the switching around of which spell is unlimited. Wtf, its a copy and paste job but now we pay to have basically the free indexes now.
Yes and it'll likely be like that in most army books
awesome, going to paint while watching, i just hope slaves and soulblight are comming soon aswell, then my 3 fav armies are done and i can tinker on some lists
The only reason I can see for the army of renown is if you don't have the faction terrain. Your not losing as much but gaining back a smaller buff at a cost.I know if your playing competitively you'll probably have the game holes but friendly games on a budget the choice of an impressive unit of faction terrain in previous editions were not so much of an easy choice. It's not like GW ever supplied an abundance of them either.
Following this logic you'd need the rulebook for the new faction rules which is also expensive
Not really I could just screenshot the page when you showed it on the video or search the internet. I've only ever really got the rulebook on birthdays or for christmas.
You didn't seem to notice that they nerfed corrupted earth into the ground. Prior you didn't need to be in combat and could murder lust, now you have to be in combat. Just absolutely garbage now because pestilens are so week. God GW can't let us have anything good. Overall pretty disappointed in how lazy these rules are. But that being said, love the game !
I did notice but that was clearly a mistake as other abilities don't have that
@@thehonestwargamerstreams fair enough! At least now we aren't seeing hordes of old Plague monk models around!
Nah I decided that the armies of reknown suck. I hate buffs that kill you.
all my sigmar homies hate the skaven
WOAH
❤❤
Thanks cutie
All the units that were fun, effective and straight forward are now clunky and frustrating by the look of it.
Aren't most of the units the same?
@@thehonestwargamerstreams I have a bias on because these are the models I play with in my army but it's the doomflayers and moulder.
Doomflayer is now no longer guaranteed to get the 10" he needs to score take the flanks on turn one. It's going to bite me one day if I try and their points will go up.
Master Moulder having a gun is a conflict of strategy. I don't really want to shoot a unit that I want to get long bomb charges into using the moulder buff to charge rolls.
I will just have to adapt.