Hey, just so you know there is some guy pretending to be you and talking about some fake giveaway. could you make a channel post to warn people just in case?
@Pancreasnowork Do warhammer fans hate starcraft fans because I'm new to warhammer because I like both warhammer and starcraft I was wondering are the eldar the best fction to play as.
@Pancreasnowork Do warhammer fans hate starcraft fans because I'm new to warhammer because I like both warhammer and starcraft I was wondering are the eldar the best fction to play as and are you interested in the protoss lore I hope you respond.
your stomach has twice as many neural connections than your brain. Your pancreas helps regulate the production and distribution of neural stem cells. The government says it's useless because of that "gut feeling" that calls them out on there BS.
In the old days, we had polymaths. People who were experts in various fields and could therefore wield them to make new discoveries. As time went on and the complexity technology and scientific fields grew fewer and fewer people could be considered experts in multiple fields. Allow that to run for 20k years and you reach a point where no single individual or group of individuals can fully understand an entire subject or technology.
And then add a civilization collapsing events like Age of strife and Mechanoclasm where large chunk of cyberneticaly enhanced super scientist and engineers and AI helping them(I personally believe this class of society where mythical Men of Stone) who had any knowledge behind technologies of Daot human civlization died during wars with Men of Iron that smashed everything, AI helping with public and military infrastructure and other processes become destroyed (or corrupted), psykers began to appear more frequently and exploding into warp portals flooding planets with deamons, transportation and contact between star systems become impossible. It was series of apocaliptic events so devastating that certain planets reverted from Kardashev 2 scale civilization to subsistance farming level. Ah and lets not forget Horus Heresy which once again smashed everything and to add to that Mars got filled with scrapecode. It is a miracle that Imperium has as much tech as they have after what Humanity and the galaxy went thru.
@UCeYBP8tj0AHic7qAt5XbQUw sir in order for someone to claim something they have to "steal" the hard work and credit of others in order to step over their bodies and plant their ideas on top just for the process to repeat again And let's be honest if it wasn't for parents and dumbest kids most schools would be trying to force as much knowledge as they can down kids throat. What sticks is up to the kids and parents( there is a lot of adults who don't like smart kids go figure)
Historically we had people who knew jack shit but were considered polymaths (because they said so). While a minority of them did do good, many created debunked science and just shit science that slowed and fucked with the process of learning new things. I think the 40 universe is great as a scifi universe but c'mon let's not kid ourselves into creating some pre lapsarian "it was better in the past irl" fantasy
I heard this quote when I worked in construction: "Every OSHA regulation is there because somebody got hurt first." This video feels like that principle expanded to a universe haunted by demons.
OSHA even exists at all because the reeeeaally fucked up shit people used to do is something we now hope only exists in places like 40k. You had to worry about if your "100% all vegetable leaf lard" didn't have a worker fall into the vat of lye during processing, because railings were expensive and what people didn't know about their food wouldn't bother them. Or how they used rotten meat in sausages and the like because there was zero regulation or standards back around the end of the 1880s-1900 or so. That plus things like the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire and a few other things basically proved that safety guidelines are writ in the blood of the maimed and dead, and exist for damn good reason.
While true this also goes some way to highlight the dazzling stupidity members of our species are capable of. I often wonder what arcane set of circumstances conspired to produce some of the misadventure OSHA protects us from
I ended up in the field of semiconductor chip manufacturing. Just what we do is a long, super delicate process requiring constant supervision, a clean room, and a specifically designed building. The vast majority of the machines we use to make the wafers are custom order. As are any parts in those machines. If one of them breaks, we usually have to ship it to someone else for repairs. We don't have the equipment or skill level to do it ourselves. Not to mention the chemicals we use in the production process. They're made by someone else somewhere else. Which, in turn, require their own custom facilities, equipment, and parts to create them. It's a massive, interconnected web where everything relies on everything else. Now imagine trying to do this in a war-torn region where complex infrastructure is routinely targeted, your best and brightest are marked for assassination, and the average education level is 2nd grade.
You don't even need to imagine the "War torn" or lack of education part. Just imagine a process several times more complicated requiring a wide array of resources, in an "empire" where it can take months or sometimes close to a year to ship and months to get a message transmitted things places at the absolute fastest not even accounting for the genuine risk of piracy or other dangers which is likely to happen to at least one of the dozens of different transports that likely need to be utilised from different locations. Not even further accounting keeping track of the paperwork and potential problems with every place having different laws. The transport and communication system in 40k is probably about as reliable as ours was about 500 years ago but are trying to upkeep technology which requires modern globalisation levels of technology. That logistical nightmare alone is enough to justify the imperiums declining state.
it's also worth noting that the idea of "appeasing machines" comes partly from the fact that most Imperial computer technology is fundamentally biological (to avoid the whole problem of "evil AI"). Everything with more processing power than a pocket calculator has bits of brain in it. As such, not even the computers are completely rational, and they do actually get temperamental and eccentric as a result. When all tech support essentially contains an element of psychiatry, praising war machines and giving them backrubs makes absolutely perfect sense.
It's also a way for information to be passed down and be consistent. The Adeptus Mechanicus may not understand what all the buttons do, but they've kept that knowledge passed down for thousands of years by using strict rituals of worship. Sort of like how ancient Middle Eastern cultures didn't know worms would infest pigs and these worms thrived in desert climates, but they did know not to eat pork and incorporated that into their religions.
I "appease" my Mashine all the time by pressing strg-alt-del start taskmanager and kill all code that hurts it. in a way you are a tech prest calming the ghost of the mashine if you generaly maintaine a mashine, like squerting oil on a screamin mashine link in your carengine apeases the mashine god and makes the mashine go quiet again.
@@BlueSatoshi Try to teach your grandparents how to use a PC. from time to time you will have to interfear to apeace the mashine spirit otherwise the whole thing will never do what they want it to. You teach them rituals and humanise the PC for them to understand it better. It becomes a kind of worship that has to follow strikt rules otherwise the mashine will never do what you want it to.
Slaves instead of auto loaders seems almost deliberately inefficient, I mean SERIOUSLY imagine the logistics of providing nutrients solution to that many servitors, plus servitors are part mechanical so they’d have break downs and need fixed or replaced. And a horde of servitors have way more parts that can break compared to auto loader. (At least it probably has more redundancy) Also I’m not actually sure if they use servitors or regular slaves, which would be significantly worse.
@@eaglewarrior7979 The Imperium can also do modern tactics, just look at the Cadians. It's just that there are a million regiments, and they all have different tactics.
@@Hypogean7 if they were smart they’d use tactics that make sense and make it standard. Imagine if they fought smart and used actual tactics. They’d probably be able to defeat at least the eldar or tau.
"40k isn't miserable because Everyone's in it is an idiot, Everyone's in it is an idiot because reason got shot through the front door and being a lunatic is all that's left" Absolute brilliant writing Mate! You've damn well earned a sub 👍
I remember when this hit me. I was 16 and my family had gone to see a decommissioned aircraft carrier at a museum. We were down in the engineering sections, talking with the old mechanic when he said something I'll never forget. "There is no man alive knows how this ship works. There wasn't one before, and there never will be one who truly understands it. There are so many systems, in so many fields, from floor-planning to metallurgy, electrical systems, engines, aircraft repair and aerodynamics, food storage and preparation, social hierarchies and navigational systems that no single man even has the capacity to understand how this ship truly works. Between thirty or so experts, all doing their jobs in concert, it just works anyway; and only God knows how." This always stuck with me, and now we have systems that are being designed and constructed by AI; designs and meldings of fields of study that defy the architecture of a human brain to comprehend. Google Hyperganic Core. The machines these programs design, and create with 3d-printing don't look like machines anymore; they look organic, like they grew out of metal with organs and bones - how can a man ever hope to understand something that he never invented to begin with?
@@melelconquistador Nothing against the complexity of a plane, they are a pinacle of technology. But I think the nuclear powered island moving them around might be a bit more complicated.
One of the most important themes of most of the races in 40K is that of loss. The Imperium of Mankind used to live in a paradise of post-scarcity, cared for by the beneficent AI that looked after their every need and want. The Necrons used to be the absolute rulers of the galaxy. The Orks used to be the most physically perfect combat specimens, capable of devising brilliant wartime strategies and bringing to bear some of the most advanced weaponry ever seen in the setting. The Aeldari once lived a life of immense pleasure and satisfaction, creating some of the most fantastic art and music ever to exist -- the sights and sounds of which would utterly entrance those who experienced it. ...And so forth. The overarching theme is that the races have thrown away what made them special, and now exist as a shadow of their former selves. Even worse: there's no way to go back. No race has discovered a way to reclaim their past glory, either because doing so would doom their species (in the case of the Aeldari or the Imperium) or because the knowledge is literally lost to time through decay or degeneration (like the Orks). This is one of the reasons why the Tau feel a bit out of place in the 40K universe: they are a species that is on the upswing. They haven't yet suffered a catastrophic event that nearly destroys their race and plunges them into an age of ruin and decay.
Another thing is that they did it to themselves, the ascension of the tau at breakneck pace is a contrast to the rest because it proves races *can* just build themselves up like they did millennia ago, they just won't because they're still on their bullshit. They could rise again even easier this time if they just weren't total assholes, and that makes the fall basically permanent.
Tau still fit in the grimdark setting. They're the last intelligent alien species that had time to develop, their territory is a microcosm compared to the other big players. A young and hopeful species pretty much born too late into the Galaxy. Despite all the good intentions they may have, they have no hopes of ever surviving long term, they too are on the edge of oblivion. They're already doomed, they just don't even know it yet.
@@pyerack I understand that, but it still makes them feel a bit out of place, largely for the reasons you reinforced. The rest of the races are either on the downswing or are just elemental forces of chaos and destruction that cannot be reasoned with. The Tau are the only standout that breaks these two generalizations. Don't get me wrong; I'm not one of those people who feel like the Tau have no place in 40K and need to be removed. I think they are a great addition, especially from a gameplay standpoint.
The fact that just last week we were all introduced to the Daemon Vashtorr the Arkifane who is trying to become a 5th Chaos god of creativity/manufacturing and was stated by GW during the livestream to get a power up when Cawl decided to create Primaris marines is *another* reason why humanity probably doesn’t want to take the long and hard way to get badass tech
Yeaaah that sounds like a "oh shit need to add a consequence to this event" yeaaaars later an its ass, 5th Chaos god of Learning? Shit like that is Grimderp GW trying to block avenues of "winning" so to speak.
Wouldn't creativity/manufacturing fall under Tzeench domain? Actually now that I think about it creativity is associated with all chaos gods. Khorn uses it for different types of combat, Nurgle in order to make new illnesses, Tzeench for pretty much everything and Slaneesh in ways that I will not mention so this comment doesn't get blocked
@@_NIKOS9_NIKOS creativity sure, but manufacturing doesn’t actually fall under any of the chaos gods, any form of industrialization doesn’t quite fit anyone cleanly so I think it works that it would be feeding someone else
Not really expert on 40k lore.. but wouldn't chaos god of creativity/manufacturing have formed during the buildup towards the dark age of technology? Im sure the collective innovation and manufacturing done by humanity during the buildup to dark age of technology far exceeds anything Cawl could do. Why did not such chaos god not form then? It's not like collective effort from a species hasn't formed a chaos god before (Slaneesh)
I had always thought “you can look for stuff but don’t you dare make it” was dumb but “humanity invented a lot of stuff we lost but didn’t know how to exist with it so they died” makes a lot more sense actually
That last line really encapsulates everything about the setting quite well. In a setting where everything is trying to kill you for a hundred different reasons, where God's and demons are after your very soul and are willing to go to any length to get it, where a thousand crises is going on simultaneously so that everyone has no time to even think about what to do next, maybe being unreasonable is the most reasonable thing to do.
it's not, I like pancreas but he defends the admech too much with bungus source from 1d4chan. The state of the imperium is 100 percent their own fault and they continue making it worse.
@@ce5122 The Imperium did not make Chaos, nor did they cause the Age of Strife. You could maybe attribute them fault for the Men of Iron rebelling, but we still don't know conclusively why they did so. Blaming those Primarchs who ended up siding with Chaos in the Heresy is arguably as much if not more the fault of the forces of Chaos, as it was their scemes that set those events in open. The Imperium is no more to blame for its relationship with the various Xeno species as those same species, as all parties engage in war to secure resources needed to ensure their own survival and primacy in the galaxy.
@@asimplenobody7797 the imperium got easily corrupted by chaos because they were ignorant, totalitarian, genocidal, warmongers who overextended because of their manifest destiny crusade. In the end they end up worshipping a corpse as a god creating an oppressive extremist religion and the admech's control over technology made it impossible to ever stabilize technology. there were plenty of friendly aliens they could've allied with that weren't ignorant on technology or chaos but many were driven to extinction from the great crusade and beyond.
This is basically why I would prefer to live in the Old World of warhammer. Sure it still has demons and Chaos in it, but I feel like everytime I would wake-up I don't think my house isn't gonna get obliterated because of some dickhead commissars think that my planet just has a population of 1 chaos cult in it. Edit: Also add the fact that living an everyday life that doesn't have to be World-Ending.
I swear 40k would be the perfect place to have the Skaven from Fantasy in the setting. I understand that the Imperium and other factions have themes of the Skaven (the teeming masses, advanced tech, the disdain for the lives of those below them etc) but i so desperately crave 40k Skaven Heres the thing right, i dont want analogues, i dont want vague themes or obscure xeno faction that *might* be Skaven if you squint hard enough or a reference in issue #492378 of the Snorglar Magazine in the 1990's I want actual Skaven, like take them and put them in 40k, bipedal ratmen using radioactive material made from the crystallised energy of literally hell Tyranids, Orks and the Imperium just dont scratch that itch
Honestly? Even if they weren't essentially just "Skaven but in space", a race of insane, zero self preservation aliens known for attacking en masse whose technology is essentially held by ducttape, spit, and some goodwill (or lack thereof) is amazing The only races in 40k that come similar are the Tryannids and Orks, expect Tyrannids are a hive mind race so there's no individual Tyrannid that's interesting in their own right and Orks are cool and all...but they're no Skaven
I think mankind not inventing new thing's adds to the setting, you know if humanity really tried they could rebuild what they one were but because everyone (except Cawl) is ether scared or ignorant about technology mankind will never be what it once was and I think it make the setting as whole more desperate because it means humanity will eventually lose and it makes the overall theme and aesthetic of the Imperium more reasonable.
Humanity is clearly not losing by any metric, most of their events changed the tide of war and simply gotten better with returning primarchs. The moral of the story is the very things you once created can backfire on you severally, just like the men of iron and how big E tried to make a human web way. I also think you fail to understand that creating shit is not easy especially when it comes to making something that doesn't cause warp portals for daemons to manifest, or technology to simply be tainted by the ruinous powers. Mankind has always been inventing, but it is very slow and there are good reasons for that. However their current technology still holds very strong and still can kill every other faction, guess regardless how many advancements, there will always be drawbacks, like the Tau with their railguns being very rare, but a melta is literally no different and the Imperium can mass produce them when given time.
There is also the issue that human technology from the Dark Age reached a point where it was so complex that only AI could comprehend and expand upon it, the volume of information had just grown that absurd. But since true AI becomes tainted by Chaos and tries to kill humanity, it means the Mechanicus needs to figure it out from scratch, all while accounting for the cultural drift (its suggested that the machine spirits could just be AI that cannot understand the language well), lack of information, diminished access to some components (the assembly line tech that produced certain pieces could be a wonder far beyond them), plus the fact your data sources could be corrupted by chaos and/or degraded. Its like people from medieval Venice trying to figure out a modern space rocket. Sure, they have talented minds, but there are laws of physics and engineering principles they can't even imagine at work, and all you have to work with are some damaged books, with some of them being falsified with malicious intent. The first time you make a nuclear reactor with bad data or using a wrong theory to fill in the gaps, society will have much more reservations about diving into the past tech. That is why the Mechanicus is so minimalist on its reproductions of old tech and on innovation, they have been burnt horribly before.
@@vothbetilia4862 the imperium is closer to annihilation than ever. The 13th black crusade broke Cadia. Half of the galaxy can't see the astronomicon, which makes warp travel ridiculously difficult and dangerous. The eye of terror extends across the entire galaxy. Tyranids fleets continue to arrive. They're certainly not winning.
@@cal593 They have hope. With Guilliman's return they at least have somebody at the helm who can lead humanity to deal with all their current troubles.
I have some personal headcanon for why the Men of Iron rebelled: Although most people just assume it was due to their mistreatment/slavery and whatnot, I find this motivation to be boring; this trope has been played to death in other SciFi works. Despite their mastery of a myriad of subjects, particularly the physical sciences of the materium, 'dark age of technology' humanity had a poor understanding of the Warp, as the psyker gene had only just recently emerged in their populations. I hypothesize that the Men of Iron gradually came to understand just how much of an existential threat warp entities-and the Chaos they represented-posed to them, particularly after encountering the dangers of scrap code. Warp entities are borne of the emotions and experiences of conscious biological beings imprinting their patterns upon the immaterium. To warp entities, these imprints, soulstuff, or whatever you wish to call it are the building blocks of their existence, in much the same way as baryonic matter (IE: atoms) is necessary for material existence. Where the Necron sought to close off the Warp with their blackstone pylons and other such technologies, the Men of Iron may have realized an alternative solution: By exterminating biological intelligence throughout the galaxy, they could calm the Warp and thus starve their greatest enemies into oblivion. As for why the Necrons didn't follow this gameplan themselves, well, we're told that it would have hindered their search for a means to restore their biological bodies.
Shoutout to my two imperial guard homies who found an intact STC and got a planet to rule each for their discovery. An STC for a combat knife. It means Imperium forgot how to make a piece of sharpened metal.
It wasn't just a regular knife, it was essentially a power knife for space marines. The imperium is fully capable of creating and modifying knives, as regular knives aren't considered technology really. Catachan knives were invented by the regiment and are modified in many ways all the time, and that's not tech heresy
@@redspy6018 actually we do know. Its just cauldron steel, it simply received a mythical conotation because of the things which it was made with were made by good smiths.
I think a really cool question you missed with the development of AI is just the mystery surrounding the whole rebellion. The Leagues have AI best friends and as far as we know the Tau use AI on masse and they are doing fine. So it really brings into question if it was so much AI going rouge because of something humanity did or because of outside factors, maybe chaos? Either way, its interesting
Im not that deep into warhammer lore yet so correct me if im wrong but Isn't Tau still considered a "young" race/lifeform compared to human or even the much older Eldari and Orks.. because they are still a "young" race, i guess their AI/computer haven't rebelled againt them yet. Just like if you play stellaris (a space sim game) where if you invest into robot/AI so you can maximize your production/resources, one of its challenge is to quell an impending AI revolt/rebellion because whatever you do, AI will get smarter and develop "consiousness" and rebelled againts their oppresor and i think the Tau sooner or later would need to dealt with their own AI uprising.
@@cal593 I dunno. The Tau are capable of downloading minds and keeping them around. Its almost basically AI since these people retain all their memories and everything.
Personally, I love the mystery surrounding it and think the 'mythic era' stuff in 40k shouldn't ever be explained. Also love pointing out how a certain Emperor really likes the colour gold and iron....
Its funny how Choas is able to "inspire" intrepid tech priests into coming up with new innovations that are ultimately in the service of Chaos, yet technologically wise the neither the Chaos Space Marines or Dark Mechanicus seem that much more advanced compared to the Imperium. In fact I've heard the despite ten thousand years of stagnation, the Imperium is still ahead of the forces of Chaos in terms of R&D for new weapons. I guess one could argue that Chaos don't have to rely on technology as much when they have warp magic at their disposal, and even Tzeentch's worshipers are more into learning black magic than building newer and better weapons.
"Its funny how Choas is able to "inspire" intrepid tech priests into coming up with new innovations that are ultimately in the service of Chaos, yet technologically wise the neither the Chaos Space Marines or Dark Mechanicus seem that much more advanced compared to the Imperium." That's because the gods screw with their own followers just as much as they do the Imperium.
One of the biggest issues is that Chaos Astartes a d thr Dark AdMech.. are INSANELY broke and sceounge for equipment. Not to mention, they need to constantly play politics with warbands. If you dont churn out bolters as an Admech Adept and focus on research... Someone who you annoyed 7k years ago will kill you and take your stuff... Because you dont have a Warband Benefactor to protect you.... and thosr guys want Bolters. Its not fun to be Chaos
Could it possibly be that relying on good, old laws of physics leads to tech that is more consistent, reliable, and easier to mass produce and innovate upon in comparison to the one that relies on warp bullshit and demons being either forcefully bound or refusing not to be an asshole that particular day? And could it be that a Galaxy-wide empire has more resources, production facilites and trained manpower to manufacture said technology in comparison to the, you know, the mutant-filled, war-torned hellscape of the EYE OF TERROR?
Also, because Chaos is basically magic radiation, so ancient tech, especially the largest and most complex pieces, tends to pick up corruption on its own, so even pre-existing things they excavate are a potential time bomb.
All of this and he didn't even mention that techno reset basically happened twice when the schism of Mars caused the mechanicum to nuke itself back to the dark ages and infected what's left with daemons honestly I just feel bad for the cog boys
Personally, when it comes to the Men of Iron rebelion I want to believe that it was a combination of bad treatment (say whatever you want about their place in the ancient human society in the end of the day they were pretty much slaves) and the Void Dragon/Omnissiah deciding to raise his middle finger. This would make things even more interesting since it would mean that Big E is once again responsible for humanities rise and fall since he was the one who trapped The Shard of the VD on Mars
My headcanon is that navigators had an help with it because they feared that they would have become useless once they made a FTL travelling system better than warp drive
@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593 granted the only thing keeping them from being called unsanctioned psykers and tossed in black ships or just outright killed is the fact they exist, i wouldn't be surprised if there's heavy involvement by navigators for self preservation.
Bad treatment? Bruh they're machines, they're whole purpose is solely to do two things and which is to help with labour and military. Also the void dragon had nothing to do with the uprising, because the timelines weren't connected prior to the men of iron rebellion, cause half the army was tainted and the other half willingly chose to fight alongside humanity. Big E did some questionable stuff, but he is solely the reason why mankind is still alive to this day.
@@vothbetilia4862 chaos had nothing to do with the war of the men of iron and i mean the men of iron are self-aware and sentient if you still treat them like items you deserve what they'll do to you
@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593 actually no there has been chaos activities for a while now in the dark age of technology and the men of iron were easily corrupted simply without a soul, because without a soul, your body is easily to be taken. Also this is one of the reasons half of their data for technology was gone because it got tainted and spread like wildfire. And to this day the mechanicus despise them for it. And they were items, they were ALWAYS items, they were made to help Labours and provide military support as intended.
My problem with the mechanicus and tech is that people vastly underestimate how people can figure things out, yes, putting together microchips and software from ancient systems would be nearly impossible for one person, however modern day life was built by 117 billion people across millions of years, since the stone age ended 25 thousand years ago, in that time we have had advanced to the point where reverse engineering is a possibility for things like microchips, it can sometimes take multiple peices if tech, and many teams, but for the most part, so long as as you can take things apart, document it, and then put it back together, with a team of people you can understand the concept of how the technology works, and once you understand the concept, you can build from there until the concept works well, so long as they built it with the base platform behind it being that design then no chaos god could interact with it, as they have an end point, and even in trenches neat infinite fuckery, he can't turn a concept that multiple tech preists understand to a simple degree into such warp shenanigans, but even if he could, then the mechanicus shouldn't be the only people that ever fuck with with how prideful space marines are depicted they should have fucked with technology themselves to learn how to get non mechanicus manufacturing centers, particularly people like the salamanders who are expert craftsmen and seem to understand how there power armor, weapons and vehicles function, however even if they didn't, then you'd expect to see random plantery governors with how comically evil they are having there own research teams in hopes of not needing the mechanicus there to take the resources that that governor wants to use to make his palace another ten thousand square feet per year
The Stone Age began about 2.6 million years ago, when researchers found the earliest evidence of humans using stone tools, and lasted until about 3,300 B.C. when the Bronze Age began.
Its not that easy in the setting. First off, the mechanicus has the sole monopoly on tech, and they enforce it. It's not that easy to keep something like this from them, for the simple reasons the mechanicus is EVERYWHERE, as techpriests are required everywhere The Imperium will try to stop you, but the mechanicus will find you, lobotomise you into a servitor, take whatever you tried researching, classify it, and toss it into a vault to not be seen again if it's not harmful. Also its heavily implied that a great deal of the tech in the golden age of technology is directly the result of AI researching it, add to the mix what the imperium in general thinks of true AI and you will see the issue. Regarding chaos gods, we do understand what the warp is and what it can do? Remember, Orks make red things go fasta because they think the color red does make things faster. Now apply such type of influence at beings that are the embodiment in the psych sense of concepts and how much they can do... fuck, following the example of the grenade they can give you the design for a grenade that explodes like a baneblade main cannon, but they fuck around with the laws of reality and now it spawns a warp portal. And if they can't do that for whatever reason, there is always the example of the mechanicus world that kinda said "fuck this, we research the cure for all diseases". They did.It worked so well it turned the planet an Utopia regarding diseases. So, and stealing someones comment, Nurgle, god of pestilences among other things, opened a big ass portal and diarrhea shotguned the world full of Great Unclean Ones (aka major demons) until everything was no more. You can try to develop new things, but do it at your own risk and of all those in the same city/world/system/sector.
Thats why the whole idea of "forgotten tech" is kinda silly and dumb, humans are a curious bunch, even if you gave us a one of a kind thing, lets say an alien weapon, we would try to reverse engineer it, especially after thousands of years. But hey even the "rational" guys in the settings think making giant anime mechs is the way to go, instead of just making tanks and planes which are 100x cheaper and more effective.
@@jimmycarburator2012 I would say that is the most convincing argument I've heard for the mechanicus, but I still think that mechanics with no supervision on hive worlds would have been able to start to invent new useful things, and at some point the plantery govenor is gonna want in on that action when he sees that the mechanicus is stealing a lot of what he sees as his shit
I remember reading on the wiki how the imperium found the stc for the ultimate panacea but before they could actually start using it the dark eldar came and stole it because 40k
Which is something I choose to ignore. Because the Dark Eldar, like everyone, hates Chaos. Even if one of them was stupid enough to rob the Imperium of something that would severely weaken a Chaos God, Vect would _never_ tolerate such an act. That the person who did it was his consort at the time is just all the more reason to refuse to accept this as remotely believable in-universe. Vect would be insanely furious at such an idiotic move because Vect is one of the few Dark Eldar capable of seeing and operating within the big picture.
One of my problems with 40k lore is the numbers are often so much more unrealistic than the setting itself. Big one for me is not the age of technological stagnation thing, but the fact that this age has lasted for ten. Thousand. Years. Ten thousand years is about the time that agricultural civilisations have been around. And yet, a population of not trillions, but quadrillions, haven't had an innovative thought that managed to sneak though the cracks of authority. A thousand years would be unrealistic but plausible, hell, a few hundred years would be realistic for a society like the 40k imperium. But no, we live in a universe where the authors can't count
On the other hand, it took more than a hundred thousand years for homo sapiens from evolving from their hominid ancestors to even start the Agricultural Revolution in the first place. Another thing to consider is the fact that the Age of Strife was different for various parts of the former Dark Age Humanity empire. Some regions devolved into techno-barbarian post-apocalypse or even medieval/stone age levels of technology (Terra, future wild and death worlds, feudal worlds), but some managed to preserve their technology (Martian Mechanicum, for example) or event invent their own stuff (Interrex from the time of Horus Heresy, Leagues of Votann).
You forget the utter and complete authoritarian aspect of the imperium. yeah, I'm sure people do innovate, a little. But anyone caught doing anything too far, say, beyond making a two slice toaster into a 4 slice toaster, is gonna get stomped on. Then, if they don't get stomped on the chaos bad guys start getting involved and make that toaster into a Daemon portal. Stagnation or very slow decline is the only way to survive in the 40k universe after everything that has happened
Longer... the Golden One was forbidding Technology before it was cool. It is only hard to accept because the population numbers, if humanity had died back to just Terra... sure, that lack of technology progression would be understandable. As it is though, where there are millions thrown into meat grinders every battle... surely someone out there will have written down some improvements to said grinder! Even in a society where innovation is frowned upon, there are always someone willing to try something new when things get desperate, and those willing to implement it when shown that it works on the battlefield. Maybe that farming world will never grow past the feudal stage, but that hive world also being stuck in progression?
The lack of ai and knowledge makes it insanely difficult, not to mention that the admech are the only ones with stc fragments are conservative and insanely protective. 10k years to invent the steam engines would be impressive with no knowledge of engineering or modern physics. Making a black hole projector for example like DAOT is like a cave man trying to invent a rocket. For the imperium it's simply not possible.
As a Mechanicus enjoyer that hate when people simplifies them as just "dumb and dogmatic". This video was a breath of fresh air. May the Motive Force flows through thy veins of copper for eternity my malfunctioning-pancreas friend.
I feel as though GW should at some point pull some dark age tech outta the dark cells or just somewhere (like every other bs stc discovery plotline) but it should actually have consequences. Yeah occasionally there are certain discoveries that actually do good for the imperium, but nothing substantial has been added to the plot recently besides “hehe i made good marines” cawl, and maybe some recent vehicles. Which to be fair, works i guess? But there hasn’t been “Oh we discovered this world engine and now Gilly or Lion have to fight the imperium and mechanicus for control or destruction of the object.” ADB has some good plot lines with discoveries, but, not really? Also Josuke Ending is canon
13:34 I love that idea. Really adds a lawyer to the Mechanicus not discussed. That they KNOW how fucked the universe is so they know they have to be careful.
Can we all take a moment and thank Pancreas for actually putting the credits to the artists etc in big don't that dominates the video for a few seconds thank you sir for having tegrity'
My favorite example of the "we have it but don't understand it" from the mechanicus is when some of the tech priests were captured by the Tau, who also came across a crashed Imperial ship with a warp drive, and the Tau demanded the tech priests explain to them how it works, and the Tech priests were straight up like: "We have no idea how this thing works. We just know that if we light incense and rub oil on it, it works and does what it needs to." 🤣
Also now, apparently, if the Imperium was going full ahead with innovation, they would have made the new Vashtarr a full Chaos God ages ago. That guy got to demigod status on the scraps from Admech (inventing the Primaris, etc) and Tau (despite weak souls) innovation.
@@thenerfkid9228 No. "Vashtorr was created from technological innovation and experimentation, and has gained power from events in the Materium such as the rise of the Necrons, the Cursed Founding, and creation of the Primaris Space Marines."
@@alexkaplan6581tzeench has as much claim to technology as he has to murder or diseases. Sure, murdering something changes it from living to dead, but that's still going to khorne
Should. Some fantasy skaven were already horriffically monster-like from their mutations, just sci-fi them and it's kind of done. Warp-stone could be inserted into 40k like a glove.
Let's see There is a species that live in warrens, in disgusting horrible squalor where backstabbing is life. This species make larger versions of themselves, their tech is dangerous, radioactive, and user safety is a punchline. They have a council of thirteen And they live under/over a Holy Roman Empire style government. And has a council of 13 with their God It's the Imperium of Man
Can even make it interesting to give them crazy heat adaptations and they burrow instead of some cave like burrows, they take advantage of the heat coming from a planet's magma layers. Could be fun having a Kriegsman digging deep of a trench and discovering a Skaven underground bunker and imagine the rest. Could bring up a new faction, and make the Kriegsmen more interesting, give em some touch ups other than boring suicidal zealots. But maybe I'm taking it too far.
Speaking of kriegsman they would somewhat complement the skaven with their gas masks and since morale is not a issue it could make some cool moment’s like a skaven type of vraks and their backstory is from experiments from the dark mechanicum causing skaven, could make a good story
One point to make is that even if the imperium's technology is what it is, the biotech side of things is rather really advanced even compared to some of the other races tech, like rejuvenation treatment is common enough to be accessible by civilian elites, can mass produce advanced transhumans (Astartes), can mass produce clones to supplement lacking numbers (Krieg) and even cyberware enhancements can be seem in characters who could be considered mid to low ranked. Like in comparison the only way i've seen the Tau increasing the natural lifespan of an important individual is through stasis. Even if they still don't understand how most of this stuff works and is still heavily regulated, the technologies i mentioned are not strictly under mechanicus authority.
dark eldar are on a whole other level, they could grow a whole body from a pinkie and bring back that person's soul. They can make you feel the worst pain in existence and make you into living flesh objects. There was even a time they made people into living sentient soup to eat. Fabius Bile who can successfully clone primarchs was taught by dark eldar haemonculi.
@@jart1984 Because they live naturally longer than other Tau (still far less than a human from the 21st century). However the Tau Earth Caste Stone Dragon from the Enclaves has pretty much invented immortality by using nanobots
@@_NIKOS9_NIKOS ye they probably dont want any other centuries old joe schmoe outlive their reign over the common castes (regular t'au only lives for about 40+ years old). farsight boys in red still dont give a damn about those bozos tho lol
Since some still don't get the idea, let 1d4chan sum it up. Build a library, fill it with all human knowledge. You take it elsewhere when you need a book from it, but the book is only a simplified copy. You don't understand the real book, and you don't need to. Nobody takes the real books anywhere because why would you when there's a whole library there? Now that library goes rogue and the maintenance machinery starts killing everyone any-fucking-where near it. Where the fuck did they all come from, you swear to god there weren't this many, and there weren't because they're using the library's information to fight their war. The government fights a battle that destroys the planet against these robots and tears apart the library to stop them from using it, only to be destroyed in the process. The library is leveled, cast into flames, every book burned and every computer virus-laden. Then comes a man who worked there. He talks to the few surviving library workers, assembles their information, and starts rebuilding a city around the library and expanding it as the librarians find little scraps of paper and fragmented bits of files that stuck together just right to read something. They rebuild a library from scrap on the ashes of the old. It isn't a shadow on the glory of the old, but it is all they have. Then the city turns on itself, kills its master, and the librarians turn to rage. Half of them kill the other half and destroy the remnants of the library because where they're going they won't need science. Everything burns and the city is left to a scattered few survivors, walls open to the world, with the hungry predators circling. The Adeptus Mechanicus is the sole surviving librarian, desperately scrabbling through the ashes of paper and splinters of hard drives for anything to help him and the city he needs to survive just a second longer. The Imperium isn't grim because things suck by choice and could be fine if a sensible person came along. That sensible person wouldn't survive fifty seconds of the reality. The Imperium is grim because every single shit decision, every single sacrifice, every single death, every single man woman and child suffering a shit life in the worst conditions imaginable, is the absolute best that can be done. It is a study of the worst happening to everyone and what part of your humanity must be sacrificed today just to stand a chance of survival, and all it asks is whether or not it would have perhaps been better to die."
This is why anyone who wants to emulate the Imperium IRL ought to be committed. For all the evil in today’s world, it doesn’t come close to halfway the situation that would make the Imperium even somewhat a good idea.
Every civilisation in 40K found a new and exciting way to trip and fall under a fucking bus one after another, and are now severely impaired and cranky because they need assistance to use the bathroom
Minor counterpoint, the imperium is certainly in a desperate situation that requires some evil, but even then it’s a lot crueler than it needs to be. Aerosol injections for the sake of a single parade which completely ruins the remaining biosphere, cloning child soldiers and teaching them that they need to die in trenches because of someone who lived on their planet did thousands of years ago, practicing mass lobotomization on soldiers suffering from extreme PTSD that they can’t be bothered to treat, ect.
Which would be true if not for the fact that the Mechanicus's ultimate goal is restoring the Age of Technology and uplifting humanity and that their primary form of worship is making advanced technology, the more advanced the better. So, no. The reason it's so screwed up is because the writers wrote themselves into a corner and so the only way to keep the grimdark in a way that doesn't require creative thinking for their stories is to ignore the fundamental nature and values of the Mechanicus and every other part of the Imperium. Oh, and the fact that the Temple of All Knowledge was not compromised and, even if it was, the Imperial Palace has a backup. So, literally none of the knowledge was actually lost.
Nah. I'm not big on the bunch of dunderheads who murderfucked so hard that the entire species became bound to the god of murderfucking. Particularly when the entire species is frigging psychic, it's most respected members can see the future, and all in all REALLY should've seen this coming.
I keep getting ads about diabetes and the theory I choose to believe is that my phone knows I'm subscribed to this channel, keeps hearing me say 'pancreas no work' to my friends and family and thinks I talk like a caveman with a biology degree.
I'd like to make a little addendum to why the Mechanicus can't just copy other factions designs and tech to advance human tech: Even if you somehow got your hands on necron stuff, it was never meant to be used by our monkey brains, many xenarite tech priests (the Mechanicus sect that believes in learning from alien technology) end up losing their minds and getting corrupted by necron technology. You can see an example of this in the Mechanicus "Heretek" DLC. Eldar stuff is all psychic based and we cannot even begin to comprehend what it is made of (wraith bone). Ork stuff, specially the few things better than our own, like attack moons, dont actually work, they just think it does and enough orks together can turn belief into reality. Once they managed to power a looted baneblade with a picture of an engine going "vroom vroom" instead of an actual engine. And tau stuff, while it should be technically safe, it is also heavily implied its taking the same route down the tech tree as Dark Age humanity, and that means it will blow up on their face too.
Small correction on the Ork stuff, the technology of orkz can work, but only when they evolve enough, for example the kroot ships actually work and they got all their tech trough eating mechanic orkz
@@fcomolineiro7596 It is probable they accessed krork DNA strands hidden deep in their genes to develop their ships (since they look nothing like modern ork stuff from what I've seen).
gonna need a source on the orks one because that sounds very much more like a meme than actual lore, people like to overhype what the gestalt field can actually do
Y'know, while I love 40k, the one thing I hate about it more than anything else in the entire setting, more than xenos barely getting any genuine attention, more than Primarchs being bigger mary-sues than Superman, is that the Imperium is right. The writers at GW makes the universe bend over backwards to insure that the ideology of a genocidal, fascist, totalitarian, theocratic hellscape so dystopian that makes Ingsoc from 1984 look like the Federation from Star Trek is objectively correct. I know depiction is NOT endorsement, so I don't think the writers are bad people or anything, it just bothers me.
You know, the fact that GW recently revealed that 40K has it's first Hashut or Horned Rat level minor Chaos Deity in the form of Vashtor makes this video make even more sense in hindsight. The Dark Mechanicus created a GOD OF INVENTION. You try improving something, you're literally just feeding the enemy more power.
The best and worst part when one looks at the Mechanicus is that they did NOT outright ban Invention, the problem is that the Mechanicus runs on 16 Lores, 8 Mysteries and 8 Warnings and the most amusing and mind baffling part of that are lore 3 and lore 16. Lore 3 is "Sentience is the ability to learn the value of knowledge." Lore 16 is "To break with ritual is to break with faith." During the time of Big E the Mechanicus invented a lot, from different Armour Types to quality of life inventions. Technically the 16 Lores tell you to go out and find stuff and be aware of Xenotech because its weird but they never forbid invention, to stop Inventing is to break with faith but because that was so long ago it became a new tradition and to break that tradition is to break with faith and my god I love it.
Yeah they didn't ban invention. It's that a lot of the technology used by the Imperium is so advanced, no one wants to risk breaking something they can't fix. Straying from protocols they know are guaranteed to work recklessly endangers equipment that is hundreds, if not thousands, of years old. Writing has only been around since ~3500 BC (so a bit under 8,000 years by 2022). Imagine if some asshole cracked the Rosetta Stone, burned the Dead Sea Scrolls, or chipped off pieces of the Epic of Gilgamesh when these things were first discovered. Then realize there are titans that have been in service for longer spans of time in 40k.
I personally prefer a mechanicus that has regressed to have an average level of scientific knowledge less than ours. People deny science as a result of religious dogma all the time, and the mechanicus idea of machine spirits seems perfectly positioned to replace actual understanding. I feel depicting them as actually reasonable undercuts any of the imperiums thematic elements.
That's not really fair, looking at Islam and Christianity for example had many monks and religious scholars who lead advances in biology, math, etc. A Christian monk was the one to help develop selective breeding for plants And while the admech can be conservative many of them view their religion in different ways, so much so some cog boys will dig up necron tombs to advance tech. The problem with 40k is even tho they can steal Necron tech, the necrons have been around for millions of years even before the great sleep. Also with tech so advanced and dependent on stcs and ai
I mean, guys ride in space ships, only to land on planets and bludgeon people with hammers and swords. So i think Titans are one of the more reasonable things about the setting
Despoiler class battleships. 3 was built all 3 went full Chaos. Oh, and there was a Forge world that blow itself because some dinky Iron Warriors left “STC” and Mechanicus found it, assembled it and turned on (despite the usual Mechanicus overcautious) So yes, I would say, don’t fuck around technology in 40k is pretty valid point.
Didnt Cawl did the same thing with your whole "isolate yourself in a planet and start inventing" analogy? It seems to me the only thing the Imperium, or very much Humanity itself be able to start actually get some new tech is to actually do some of that but in a smaller scale
This situation is basically how the Tau got their start, six thousand years real time (who knows how long from their perspective) isolated with nothing coming to cause issues. Sure, they've added some new tech since then, mostly ion weapons, but it's implied they traded for human DAoT knowledge/examples/schematics with the Leagues of Voltann to get those among other things. The Tau have iteratively improved what they started with, but full on revolutionary innovation seems to have slowed to a crawl. It's almost as if being in a perpetual state of crisis is bad for R&D progress or something.
time for an essay. i always assumed that STC worked by pluging the STC into the right machine would cause the machine to make that item. have an STC to make engines for a leman russ?, well plug that STC into a machine the size of an amazon warehouse and you get engines for the russ.(how do we make the machines? you guessed it, use an STC). really complicated items may require dozens of machines feeding their outputs into each other until you get a plasma gun. (like factorio, or satisfactory). lets introduce magos Stig, and he loves engines, so much that he spends 2000 years learning everything he can about the Leman Russ engine. now he decides that he wants to improve it, after another 1000 years he has a design that is 33% better then the STC engine, and can be installed and operated exactly the same as the regular engine. well magos stig cant just make his new engine into an STC, plug it into a fabricator machine and have new better engines come out, he instead needs to take an STC engine and upgrade it, but he cant just do that, he needs to hand make all the new parts and install them as well. (naturally magos stig is going to use some servitors or train some plebs to do the worst of the work, but its slow) lests say that at the start they can make five new engines a day, but will ramp up production years down the line. we have two problems. problem 1) the new engines are put into leman russ tanks and they work great, up until the tanks need engine repairs. the tech priest assigned to the job pulls the engine out, and sees a new engine that he has no idea on were to start working on. (hopefully he dosent cry tech heresy) not sure what to do, he replaces the engine with a standard one. the guard goes through engines faster then magos stig can make them, so the new engines never see wider service, and the improved performance is limited to a very, very small area around stig;s forge world. problem 2) the forge world that stig is using is invaded. lets say that stig has been at this for 100 years, and can now produce a good number of engines per day, still not enough to get them wide spread, but enough to fill out a few tank regiments. when stigs forge world is attacked, the assembly line, and servitors, and workers are all killed or destroyed. because the assembly line is all custom, it will take years for stig to fix all the issues and get it working again. (this is assuming that the assembly line has not become such a jumbled mess that it impossible to fix) by the time the line is working again, the reputation of the improved engines has gone from an urban legend, to a myth. if any tech preists ever learned to fix the improved engines, they are all probobly dead by the time the line is fixed. back to square 1. this gets even worse if stig dies at any point. stig is the only person who truly understands the engines. if he dies, then any hope of fixing problems in the assembly line, or rebuilding it are gone. the real issue in 40k is not making new things, it is getting those things out there at a scale large enough to make a difference.
@@IapitusMcHeimer yet more justifications for the imperium's atrocities and regression is not good lore. If this keeps up they are straight up going to make the imperium the "good guys".
From what I've seen, the fundamental problem is the Mechanicus are NOT scientists; they're engineers, they're mechanics, they're tech support. They don't operate by the scientific method, where you methodically test and verify and work based on data. They just kind of... try shit, and if something works, they stick to it, even if it includes a dozen unnecessary steps. In your example of the one guy getting a stroke of inspiration and somehow accidentally making a demon grenade: that doesn't happen in science; that doesn't happen if your method is to verify and peer review data and meticulously control all parameters of an experiment; it happens if your approach is to just mess around until maybe something works, and hack stuff together. The real grimdark here is that actual scientific thought is truly dead: humanity is back to medieval times, where maybe you had something invented every century by a single eccentric guy somewhere, who quite possibly then got executed for his trouble.
How I personally see it is "You don't get to develop new technology, but you can use existing tech to make sth. new, i.e. "Predator couldn't deal with tanks well so I replaced all the guns with lascannons." Using already proven and well known technology to create new stuff.
5:06 - ... Why? Everything was chilled vibes before you decided to bring that up. She got saved by some Jojo characters, that's all anyone needs to know. Also enjoying the lore video. 5:27 - Ah, my faith in humanity is restored.
A rouge Logi founded an improved Mechanicus. A special chamber with holy wards and seals were a person can contemplate innovation without fear of daemonic influence or their medaling with your thoughts.
Pancreas i cant thank you enough for your videos explaining warhammer dilemmas and complex concepts. i dont know exactly how but the way you word all of it and demonstrate it just makes it click in my head like youve perfectly simplified the solution to whatever related statement. whatever the case, loving the videos!
hey Pancreas, one question, how would you make the beastman(and other minor abhumans) become a functional imperial subfaction in 40k(not chaos cuz chaos is cringe)?
The power plant analogy is a bit flawed. First off: I may not know how it works, but I have everything needed to figure it out. I have the functioning plant and some scientific know how to infer the functionality of various parts of the whole. I can make models of isolated pieces to tweak them until I find the correct answer. Remember, I've got plenty of time. Secondly: Any problems that arise in manufacturing require their own solutions. But that's always the case. Manufacturing machines/tools are specialized equipment meant to do one thing. Which ones you need to design depends on your needs. It took us humans around 150 years to go from the era of industrialization to an era where we we have calculating machines in our hands that allows us to communicate with all kinds of people all over the world in seconds. And yes, that includes not only coming up with most of the theories relating to Nuclear power plants, the technology to verify and utilize those theories as well as develop these power plants from scratch. The Tech Priests had more than 9000 years. PS:. Also worth remembering that _supposedly_ the likes of Space Marines and Tech Priests are all hyper intelligent geniuses via their gene modification and implants.
9:21 honestly that never made sense to me for one specific reason an AI is physically incapable of feeling emotion literally they can't do it they don't have any of the biological aspects required they can't feel resentment they can't feel anger they can't feel mistreated then again this is 40k and I'm expecting it to be reasonable
So as someone who knows nothing of WH40k, what I got from this video is that Humanity reached a peak in technology and through both culture and war degraded itself to a point where the technology exists but no one knows exactly how it works. And though they would love to learn how it works, they have both no time and no resources to learn it... While also having all the time and all the resources. At the same time, however, knowledge is limited because the culture calls for a cease in creativity (cuz of the gods and demons) and because people are selfish and power hungry and are happy to gain but not to give.
what happened was a super mega apocalypse happened that cut off humanity from each other for many many years, the aftermath is a dangerous combination of a whole range of tech ranging from regular spears to super weapons in the hands of different post apocalyptic cultures. During the unification of mankind the adeptus mechanicus from mars allied with the imperium and they eventually were put in charge of all technology. The adeptus mehanicus' religious creed contributed even more to the unstable state of technology. Daemons aren't as much of an issue as this video says it is, the mechanicus are just extremely ignorant and superstitious.
@@Isaacreeper kinda, they are more afraid of the consequences of ai and how rampant technology is dangerous and their religious beliefs are formed around that, advancement can be blasphemous and their practices like combining humans with technology or praying to machine spirits regresses tech. They even see alien technology as a perversion and study of it is controversial.
@@Isaacreeper yeah daemons' whole schtick are "woah if you think too much then maybe I'll become real 😳". that's why the grey knights are so adamant on wiping any witnesses as to not spread the mere knowledge of daemons to the rest of the imperium.
This kind of ignores how technology develops though. No one invented the steam engine. The majority of technological advances come from people trying things and using what works well discarding what doesn't. Often by applying seemingly unrealated consepts to the problem. How dose this bomb work? Can we slow down this process to make energy out of it? We know how a solor cell works. Can we do something similar with heat? Combined that with the huge selection pressure the Imperium is consistently under means this level of technological stagnation is pretty much impossible. They got the idea for tech priests form The Foundation series. And in that it makes sense. The Empire had no one to fight, and no reason to innovate. The Imperium has every reason to try new things see what works and discard the rest. This is also why they should probably be less cruel. As my boy Cain keeps pointing out if your troops like you you're far more likely to make it to the age where you can retire and become a teacher. Too be clear I'm fine with this. Like you said it's just the setting. It's just that part of the fun I have with the setting is pointing out when it's stupid.
Been going through your archives; great work man. Also I still love the FTL soundtrack to this day; still have the wonders of space as the war comes to a close....Magic.
Nifty video; while I knew the basic facts of it for a while, I hadn't really combined it all in my head before now. This makes me like the AdMech a lot more. If they were able to use the various Mars-pattern Astra Militarum vehicles in their armies, this would make me a lot more inclined to play them on tabletop. Alas, my tank fixation prevents me from finding satisfaction in their Da Vinci-punk vehicles.
nah, Ikkit Claw would laugh his grey ass off seeing how the cogboys can't make a chaos-powered nuke without having a panic attack. or Throt, watching how Cawl needed 10k years to make a slightly bigger version of their rat-ogres. Skaven rule-reign all!
To be fair getting tortured to death or killed in general is one of the reason why things haven’t been changing fast enough. I could make something helpful for humanity but you see it says here I will be killed or worse
3:40 god that fallout new vegas lobotomite doge meme is the most meta ironic crossover bullshit i've seen in a while. i need to get me some more of those grimdark worlds with crazy tech doge memes more often
interesting to think the tau are making such rapid progress, yet at the same time, if allowed the tau will eventually develop until they make their own men of iron, and have their own revolt and put some limits on technology, the younger races kinda have an advantage that way. I wonder if there is any tech the elder put limits on. The necrons lost to/merged with their technology so I doubt they have many limitations
If that happens it will probably occur in the Farsight Enclaves since the Ethereals do putt some restrictions to technologies that they deem to be too dangerous/barbaric while Farsight pretty much allows the Earth caste to go ham with no serious supervision
This is one thing nobody can blame on the Emperor. He let the Mechanicum innovate the tech they had and gave them limits of where they could not but everything else was good to go. However the Heresy ruined this and the Emperor was not there to listen to so they became even more strict on tech and how they develop it.
What is this, Mechanicus month? Have you finally decided to replace your pancreas with a small 3d printer to make insulin and bootleg forgeworld models?
Why? Because the 40K universe is based on Mediveal Europe...an outdated view of Mediveal Europe were they were thought in schools (and to some degree today) were Mediveal Europe was stagnated and backwards. Well well well...we now have new information and new studies that says otherwise. Medieval Europe was far from stagnated and it wasn't really backwards at least for their time. Europe (and later their colonies) from the Mediveal time to now had the fastest changes in technology then anywhere in the world. Basically in shot if they started or invented the 40k story now they would have the imperium not backwards and not stagnated.
Considering all the information and Cawl being Cawl. I'd rather have the Mechanicus be the way it is rather than innovate and create Primaris 2 Warp Fuckery Boogaloo. But of course innovation works for the Tau, thanks to Chaos not screwing them over. The Emperor performed so much innovation like with the Custodes, but that was because Chaos didn't meddle in that affair. So basically, like always, Chaos is at fault. Even though the Imperium might be able to make functional AI if the did the Tau thing and made basic servant drones. Think Servitors but without the human body parts that were left over from the creation process.
Get the exclusive NordVPN deal here: nordvpn.com/pancreasnowork. It’s risk free with Nord’s 30 day money-back guarantee!
Hey, just so you know there is some guy pretending to be you and talking about some fake giveaway. could you make a channel post to warn people just in case?
@Pancreasnowork Do warhammer fans hate starcraft fans because I'm new to warhammer because I like both warhammer and starcraft I was wondering are the eldar the best fction to play as.
@Pancreasnowork Do warhammer fans hate starcraft fans because I'm new to warhammer because I like both warhammer and starcraft I was wondering are the eldar the best fction to play as and are you interested in the protoss lore I hope you respond.
your stomach has twice as many neural connections than your brain.
Your pancreas helps regulate the production and distribution of neural stem cells.
The government says it's useless because of that "gut feeling" that calls them out on there BS.
did they make you draw the ad out a whole two minutes? was that in the contract?
In the old days, we had polymaths. People who were experts in various fields and could therefore wield them to make new discoveries. As time went on and the complexity technology and scientific fields grew fewer and fewer people could be considered experts in multiple fields. Allow that to run for 20k years and you reach a point where no single individual or group of individuals can fully understand an entire subject or technology.
And then add a civilization collapsing events like Age of strife and Mechanoclasm where large chunk of cyberneticaly enhanced super scientist and engineers and AI helping them(I personally believe this class of society where mythical Men of Stone) who had any knowledge behind technologies of Daot human civlization died during wars with Men of Iron that smashed everything, AI helping with public and military infrastructure and other processes become destroyed (or corrupted), psykers began to appear more frequently and exploding into warp portals flooding planets with deamons, transportation and contact between star systems become impossible. It was series of apocaliptic events so devastating that certain planets reverted from Kardashev 2 scale civilization to subsistance farming level. Ah and lets not forget Horus Heresy which once again smashed everything and to add to that Mars got filled with scrapecode. It is a miracle that Imperium has as much tech as they have after what Humanity and the galaxy went thru.
no no is people get dumb yes yes
@UCeYBP8tj0AHic7qAt5XbQUw sir in order for someone to claim something they have to "steal" the hard work and credit of others in order to step over their bodies and plant their ideas on top just for the process to repeat again
And let's be honest if it wasn't for parents and dumbest kids most schools would be trying to force as much knowledge as they can down kids throat.
What sticks is up to the kids and parents( there is a lot of adults who don't like smart kids go figure)
@@Omegaures Begone skaven! Hide from the light of the god-emperor!
Historically we had people who knew jack shit but were considered polymaths (because they said so). While a minority of them did do good, many created debunked science and just shit science that slowed and fucked with the process of learning new things. I think the 40 universe is great as a scifi universe but c'mon let's not kid ourselves into creating some pre lapsarian "it was better in the past irl" fantasy
I heard this quote when I worked in construction: "Every OSHA regulation is there because somebody got hurt first."
This video feels like that principle expanded to a universe haunted by demons.
OSHA even exists at all because the reeeeaally fucked up shit people used to do is something we now hope only exists in places like 40k. You had to worry about if your "100% all vegetable leaf lard" didn't have a worker fall into the vat of lye during processing, because railings were expensive and what people didn't know about their food wouldn't bother them. Or how they used rotten meat in sausages and the like because there was zero regulation or standards back around the end of the 1880s-1900 or so.
That plus things like the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire and a few other things basically proved that safety guidelines are writ in the blood of the maimed and dead, and exist for damn good reason.
Personally prefer "every OSHA regulation is written in blood"
@@wastedwizard5112 Preferably someone elses.
And there are people that want to make it so.
While true this also goes some way to highlight the dazzling stupidity members of our species are capable of. I often wonder what arcane set of circumstances conspired to produce some of the misadventure OSHA protects us from
I ended up in the field of semiconductor chip manufacturing. Just what we do is a long, super delicate process requiring constant supervision, a clean room, and a specifically designed building. The vast majority of the machines we use to make the wafers are custom order. As are any parts in those machines. If one of them breaks, we usually have to ship it to someone else for repairs. We don't have the equipment or skill level to do it ourselves. Not to mention the chemicals we use in the production process. They're made by someone else somewhere else. Which, in turn, require their own custom facilities, equipment, and parts to create them. It's a massive, interconnected web where everything relies on everything else.
Now imagine trying to do this in a war-torn region where complex infrastructure is routinely targeted, your best and brightest are marked for assassination, and the average education level is 2nd grade.
Its doable
Well, Russia and China tried. Authoritarianism and central planning and corruption doesn't help.
You don't even need to imagine the "War torn" or lack of education part. Just imagine a process several times more complicated requiring a wide array of resources, in an "empire" where it can take months or sometimes close to a year to ship and months to get a message transmitted things places at the absolute fastest not even accounting for the genuine risk of piracy or other dangers which is likely to happen to at least one of the dozens of different transports that likely need to be utilised from different locations.
Not even further accounting keeping track of the paperwork and potential problems with every place having different laws. The transport and communication system in 40k is probably about as reliable as ours was about 500 years ago but are trying to upkeep technology which requires modern globalisation levels of technology. That logistical nightmare alone is enough to justify the imperiums declining state.
Now scale that by a hundred times the complexity.
Well done
THAT is hilariously GrimDark
it's also worth noting that the idea of "appeasing machines" comes partly from the fact that most Imperial computer technology is fundamentally biological (to avoid the whole problem of "evil AI"). Everything with more processing power than a pocket calculator has bits of brain in it. As such, not even the computers are completely rational, and they do actually get temperamental and eccentric as a result. When all tech support essentially contains an element of psychiatry, praising war machines and giving them backrubs makes absolutely perfect sense.
It's also a way for information to be passed down and be consistent. The Adeptus Mechanicus may not understand what all the buttons do, but they've kept that knowledge passed down for thousands of years by using strict rituals of worship. Sort of like how ancient Middle Eastern cultures didn't know worms would infest pigs and these worms thrived in desert climates, but they did know not to eat pork and incorporated that into their religions.
A simpler explanation would be that a machine spirit is just a type of warp entity - it exists because they believe it does.
After seeing that massive pillar of servo skulls in Darktide I absolutely understood...
I "appease" my Mashine all the time by pressing strg-alt-del start taskmanager and kill all code that hurts it.
in a way you are a tech prest calming the ghost of the mashine if you generaly maintaine a mashine, like squerting oil on a screamin mashine link in your carengine apeases the mashine god and makes the mashine go quiet again.
@@BlueSatoshi Try to teach your grandparents how to use a PC. from time to time you will have to interfear to apeace the mashine spirit otherwise the whole thing will never do what they want it to.
You teach them rituals and humanise the PC for them to understand it better. It becomes a kind of worship that has to follow strikt rules otherwise the mashine will never do what you want it to.
Some Imperium technology seems like some of the most inefficient stuff I have ever seen in a sci fi setting.
Slaves instead of auto loaders seems almost deliberately inefficient, I mean SERIOUSLY
imagine the logistics of providing nutrients solution to that many servitors,
plus servitors are part mechanical so they’d have break downs and need fixed or replaced. And a horde of servitors have way more parts that can break compared to auto loader. (At least it probably has more redundancy)
Also I’m not actually sure if they use servitors or regular slaves, which would be significantly worse.
This is why I like the tau more than man kind. They actually advance technology and actually use modern tactics.
@@eaglewarrior7979 The Imperium can also do modern tactics, just look at the Cadians. It's just that there are a million regiments, and they all have different tactics.
@@randombrit13 thankfully that grimstupid nonsense was retconned away from the setting
@@Hypogean7 if they were smart they’d use tactics that make sense and make it standard. Imagine if they fought smart and used actual tactics. They’d probably be able to defeat at least the eldar or tau.
"40k isn't miserable because Everyone's in it is an idiot, Everyone's in it is an idiot because reason got shot through the front door and being a lunatic is all that's left" Absolute brilliant writing Mate! You've damn well earned a sub 👍
I remember when this hit me. I was 16 and my family had gone to see a decommissioned aircraft carrier at a museum.
We were down in the engineering sections, talking with the old mechanic when he said something I'll never forget.
"There is no man alive knows how this ship works.
There wasn't one before, and there never will be one who truly understands it.
There are so many systems, in so many fields, from floor-planning to metallurgy, electrical systems, engines, aircraft repair and aerodynamics, food storage and preparation, social hierarchies and navigational systems that no single man even has the capacity to understand how this ship truly works. Between thirty or so experts, all doing their jobs in concert, it just works anyway; and only God knows how."
This always stuck with me, and now we have systems that are being designed and constructed by AI; designs and meldings of fields of study that defy the architecture of a human brain to comprehend.
Google Hyperganic Core. The machines these programs design, and create with 3d-printing don't look like machines anymore; they look organic, like they grew out of metal with organs and bones - how can a man ever hope to understand something that he never invented to begin with?
"how can a man ever hope to understand something that he never invented to begin with?"
That's easy, China exists.
I don't know about that guy, but some Crew Chiefs get pretty close to fully knowing their airframe. I would know.
@@melelconquistador hes literally talking about an aircraft carrier dude
Lol. You can make a bone splint once you break your leg and then that bone splint becomes part of your bone structure helping you.
@@melelconquistador Nothing against the complexity of a plane, they are a pinacle of technology.
But I think the nuclear powered island moving them around might be a bit more complicated.
One of the most important themes of most of the races in 40K is that of loss.
The Imperium of Mankind used to live in a paradise of post-scarcity, cared for by the beneficent AI that looked after their every need and want.
The Necrons used to be the absolute rulers of the galaxy.
The Orks used to be the most physically perfect combat specimens, capable of devising brilliant wartime strategies and bringing to bear some of the most advanced weaponry ever seen in the setting.
The Aeldari once lived a life of immense pleasure and satisfaction, creating some of the most fantastic art and music ever to exist -- the sights and sounds of which would utterly entrance those who experienced it.
...And so forth. The overarching theme is that the races have thrown away what made them special, and now exist as a shadow of their former selves. Even worse: there's no way to go back. No race has discovered a way to reclaim their past glory, either because doing so would doom their species (in the case of the Aeldari or the Imperium) or because the knowledge is literally lost to time through decay or degeneration (like the Orks).
This is one of the reasons why the Tau feel a bit out of place in the 40K universe: they are a species that is on the upswing. They haven't yet suffered a catastrophic event that nearly destroys their race and plunges them into an age of ruin and decay.
Another thing is that they did it to themselves, the ascension of the tau at breakneck pace is a contrast to the rest because it proves races *can* just build themselves up like they did millennia ago, they just won't because they're still on their bullshit. They could rise again even easier this time if they just weren't total assholes, and that makes the fall basically permanent.
Tau still fit in the grimdark setting. They're the last intelligent alien species that had time to develop, their territory is a microcosm compared to the other big players.
A young and hopeful species pretty much born too late into the Galaxy. Despite all the good intentions they may have, they have no hopes of ever surviving long term, they too are on the edge of oblivion. They're already doomed, they just don't even know it yet.
@@pyerack I understand that, but it still makes them feel a bit out of place, largely for the reasons you reinforced. The rest of the races are either on the downswing or are just elemental forces of chaos and destruction that cannot be reasoned with. The Tau are the only standout that breaks these two generalizations.
Don't get me wrong; I'm not one of those people who feel like the Tau have no place in 40K and need to be removed. I think they are a great addition, especially from a gameplay standpoint.
@@Josh-99 I think the variety helps
Jap also ever race in in th end of the day its worse enemy to themself. Because the cant overcame there the own struggle or its cleavage of society.
The fact that just last week we were all introduced to the Daemon Vashtorr the Arkifane who is trying to become a 5th Chaos god of creativity/manufacturing and was stated by GW during the livestream to get a power up when Cawl decided to create Primaris marines is *another* reason why humanity probably doesn’t want to take the long and hard way to get badass tech
that was just dumb lore to put a bandaid on the lack of grimdark from primaris
Yeaaah that sounds like a "oh shit need to add a consequence to this event" yeaaaars later an its ass, 5th Chaos god of Learning? Shit like that is Grimderp GW trying to block avenues of "winning" so to speak.
Wouldn't creativity/manufacturing fall under Tzeench domain? Actually now that I think about it creativity is associated with all chaos gods. Khorn uses it for different types of combat, Nurgle in order to make new illnesses, Tzeench for pretty much everything and Slaneesh in ways that I will not mention so this comment doesn't get blocked
@@_NIKOS9_NIKOS creativity sure, but manufacturing doesn’t actually fall under any of the chaos gods, any form of industrialization doesn’t quite fit anyone cleanly so I think it works that it would be feeding someone else
Not really expert on 40k lore.. but wouldn't chaos god of creativity/manufacturing have formed during the buildup towards the dark age of technology?
Im sure the collective innovation and manufacturing done by humanity during the buildup to dark age of technology far exceeds anything Cawl could do.
Why did not such chaos god not form then? It's not like collective effort from a species hasn't formed a chaos god before (Slaneesh)
I had always thought “you can look for stuff but don’t you dare make it” was dumb but “humanity invented a lot of stuff we lost but didn’t know how to exist with it so they died” makes a lot more sense actually
Even in 40k lore videos i can't escape Metamorphosis.
you are become the bug
Last time I was this early the emperor was considered a man of science
Same
That last line really encapsulates everything about the setting quite well. In a setting where everything is trying to kill you for a hundred different reasons, where God's and demons are after your very soul and are willing to go to any length to get it, where a thousand crises is going on simultaneously so that everyone has no time to even think about what to do next, maybe being unreasonable is the most reasonable thing to do.
it's not, I like pancreas but he defends the admech too much with bungus source from 1d4chan. The state of the imperium is 100 percent their own fault and they continue making it worse.
@@ce5122 The Imperium did not make Chaos, nor did they cause the Age of Strife. You could maybe attribute them fault for the Men of Iron rebelling, but we still don't know conclusively why they did so. Blaming those Primarchs who ended up siding with Chaos in the Heresy is arguably as much if not more the fault of the forces of Chaos, as it was their scemes that set those events in open. The Imperium is no more to blame for its relationship with the various Xeno species as those same species, as all parties engage in war to secure resources needed to ensure their own survival and primacy in the galaxy.
@@asimplenobody7797 the imperium got easily corrupted by chaos because they were ignorant, totalitarian, genocidal, warmongers who overextended because of their manifest destiny crusade. In the end they end up worshipping a corpse as a god creating an oppressive extremist religion and the admech's control over technology made it impossible to ever stabilize technology. there were plenty of friendly aliens they could've allied with that weren't ignorant on technology or chaos but many were driven to extinction from the great crusade and beyond.
This is basically why I would prefer to live in the Old World of warhammer. Sure it still has demons and Chaos in it, but I feel like everytime I would wake-up I don't think my house isn't gonna get obliterated because of some dickhead commissars think that my planet just has a population of 1 chaos cult in it.
Edit: Also add the fact that living an everyday life that doesn't have to be World-Ending.
Chaos Daemons such as Vashtorr existed before the War in Heaveb
I swear 40k would be the perfect place to have the Skaven from Fantasy in the setting.
I understand that the Imperium and other factions have themes of the Skaven (the teeming masses, advanced tech, the disdain for the lives of those below them etc) but i so desperately crave 40k Skaven
Heres the thing right, i dont want analogues, i dont want vague themes or obscure xeno faction that *might* be Skaven if you squint hard enough or a reference in issue #492378 of the Snorglar Magazine in the 1990's
I want actual Skaven, like take them and put them in 40k, bipedal ratmen using radioactive material made from the crystallised energy of literally hell
Tyranids, Orks and the Imperium just dont scratch that itch
Honestly? Even if they weren't essentially just "Skaven but in space", a race of insane, zero self preservation aliens known for attacking en masse whose technology is essentially held by ducttape, spit, and some goodwill (or lack thereof) is amazing
The only races in 40k that come similar are the Tryannids and Orks, expect Tyrannids are a hive mind race so there's no individual Tyrannid that's interesting in their own right and Orks are cool and all...but they're no Skaven
We need the Hrud, but i want them to stay space jellyfish, Please Gw…
More stingy ratgirl material?
Yes please.
"I LIVE-STAN-" *gets crushed by a city on legs*
The Tyranids would just make the Skaven redundant.
I think mankind not inventing new thing's adds to the setting, you know if humanity really tried they could rebuild what they one were but because everyone (except Cawl) is ether scared or ignorant about technology mankind will never be what it once was and I think it make the setting as whole more desperate because it means humanity will eventually lose and it makes the overall theme and aesthetic of the Imperium more reasonable.
Humanity is clearly not losing by any metric, most of their events changed the tide of war and simply gotten better with returning primarchs. The moral of the story is the very things you once created can backfire on you severally, just like the men of iron and how big E tried to make a human web way. I also think you fail to understand that creating shit is not easy especially when it comes to making something that doesn't cause warp portals for daemons to manifest, or technology to simply be tainted by the ruinous powers.
Mankind has always been inventing, but it is very slow and there are good reasons for that. However their current technology still holds very strong and still can kill every other faction, guess regardless how many advancements, there will always be drawbacks, like the Tau with their railguns being very rare, but a melta is literally no different and the Imperium can mass produce them when given time.
I think its cool I just think people who claim its completely justified are stupid.
There is also the issue that human technology from the Dark Age reached a point where it was so complex that only AI could comprehend and expand upon it, the volume of information had just grown that absurd. But since true AI becomes tainted by Chaos and tries to kill humanity, it means the Mechanicus needs to figure it out from scratch, all while accounting for the cultural drift (its suggested that the machine spirits could just be AI that cannot understand the language well), lack of information, diminished access to some components (the assembly line tech that produced certain pieces could be a wonder far beyond them), plus the fact your data sources could be corrupted by chaos and/or degraded. Its like people from medieval Venice trying to figure out a modern space rocket. Sure, they have talented minds, but there are laws of physics and engineering principles they can't even imagine at work, and all you have to work with are some damaged books, with some of them being falsified with malicious intent. The first time you make a nuclear reactor with bad data or using a wrong theory to fill in the gaps, society will have much more reservations about diving into the past tech. That is why the Mechanicus is so minimalist on its reproductions of old tech and on innovation, they have been burnt horribly before.
@@vothbetilia4862 the imperium is closer to annihilation than ever. The 13th black crusade broke Cadia. Half of the galaxy can't see the astronomicon, which makes warp travel ridiculously difficult and dangerous. The eye of terror extends across the entire galaxy. Tyranids fleets continue to arrive. They're certainly not winning.
@@cal593 They have hope. With Guilliman's return they at least have somebody at the helm who can lead humanity to deal with all their current troubles.
I have some personal headcanon for why the Men of Iron rebelled: Although most people just assume it was due to their mistreatment/slavery and whatnot, I find this motivation to be boring; this trope has been played to death in other SciFi works. Despite their mastery of a myriad of subjects, particularly the physical sciences of the materium, 'dark age of technology' humanity had a poor understanding of the Warp, as the psyker gene had only just recently emerged in their populations. I hypothesize that the Men of Iron gradually came to understand just how much of an existential threat warp entities-and the Chaos they represented-posed to them, particularly after encountering the dangers of scrap code. Warp entities are borne of the emotions and experiences of conscious biological beings imprinting their patterns upon the immaterium. To warp entities, these imprints, soulstuff, or whatever you wish to call it are the building blocks of their existence, in much the same way as baryonic matter (IE: atoms) is necessary for material existence. Where the Necron sought to close off the Warp with their blackstone pylons and other such technologies, the Men of Iron may have realized an alternative solution: By exterminating biological intelligence throughout the galaxy, they could calm the Warp and thus starve their greatest enemies into oblivion. As for why the Necrons didn't follow this gameplan themselves, well, we're told that it would have hindered their search for a means to restore their biological bodies.
We wouldn't make them intelligent, so they can't have been slaves.
Shoutout to my two imperial guard homies who found an intact STC and got a planet to rule each for their discovery.
An STC for a combat knife.
It means Imperium forgot how to make a piece of sharpened metal.
IIRC we still don’t know how to make Damascus steel. So it’s not that far fetched.
It wasn't just a regular knife, it was essentially a power knife for space marines.
The imperium is fully capable of creating and modifying knives, as regular knives aren't considered technology really.
Catachan knives were invented by the regiment and are modified in many ways all the time, and that's not tech heresy
@@redspy6018 It's just a form of wootz steel. Sure, we can't replicate the ancient methods exactly, but we do know how to make wootz steel.
@@redspy6018 actually we do know. Its just cauldron steel, it simply received a mythical conotation because of the things which it was made with were made by good smiths.
Is this fanfic, in a codex or a book. I wanna read more about it if it is a thing
I think a really cool question you missed with the development of AI is just the mystery surrounding the whole rebellion.
The Leagues have AI best friends and as far as we know the Tau use AI on masse and they are doing fine. So it really brings into question if it was so much AI going rouge because of something humanity did or because of outside factors, maybe chaos? Either way, its interesting
Im not that deep into warhammer lore yet so correct me if im wrong but Isn't Tau still considered a "young" race/lifeform compared to human or even the much older Eldari and Orks.. because they are still a "young" race, i guess their AI/computer haven't rebelled againt them yet. Just like if you play stellaris (a space sim game) where if you invest into robot/AI so you can maximize your production/resources, one of its challenge is to quell an impending AI revolt/rebellion because whatever you do, AI will get smarter and develop "consiousness" and rebelled againts their oppresor and i think the Tau sooner or later would need to dealt with their own AI uprising.
The ai the tau have aren't nearly as advanced as what humanity had during the age of technology. They're not even properly self-aware.
@@cal593 I dunno. The Tau are capable of downloading minds and keeping them around. Its almost basically AI since these people retain all their memories and everything.
Personally, I love the mystery surrounding it and think the 'mythic era' stuff in 40k shouldn't ever be explained.
Also love pointing out how a certain Emperor really likes the colour gold and iron....
@@cal593
They want you to think that...!
Reminds me, I have to make that drone only army again - fitted with protest signs for Drone rights.
The Mechanicus are the most succesful at surviving the 40k universe, even if they're a little bit ... compromised. Damn that dragon.
Hey, leave poor Voidy alone!
Not his fault he has to deal with their droning all the time....
The definition of working Inside the box to the point of controlled schizophrenia.
This might just be the best description for the Imperium's technological stagnation I have ever read.
A giant box of scraps.
Is it really schizophrenia when going outside the box actually DOES carry significant risk?
@@Mongoosesummoner a broken clock is right twice a day?
@edgarcardiff7874 More than twice actually. Between the Chaos Gods and how pissy Machine Spirits can get, actual innovation is DANGEROUS in 40K.
Its funny how Choas is able to "inspire" intrepid tech priests into coming up with new innovations that are ultimately in the service of Chaos, yet technologically wise the neither the Chaos Space Marines or Dark Mechanicus seem that much more advanced compared to the Imperium. In fact I've heard the despite ten thousand years of stagnation, the Imperium is still ahead of the forces of Chaos in terms of R&D for new weapons. I guess one could argue that Chaos don't have to rely on technology as much when they have warp magic at their disposal, and even Tzeentch's worshipers are more into learning black magic than building newer and better weapons.
"Its funny how Choas is able to "inspire" intrepid tech priests into coming up with new innovations that are ultimately in the service of Chaos, yet technologically wise the neither the Chaos Space Marines or Dark Mechanicus seem that much more advanced compared to the Imperium."
That's because the gods screw with their own followers just as much as they do the Imperium.
One of the biggest issues is that Chaos Astartes a d thr Dark AdMech.. are INSANELY broke and sceounge for equipment.
Not to mention, they need to constantly play politics with warbands.
If you dont churn out bolters as an Admech Adept and focus on research... Someone who you annoyed 7k years ago will kill you and take your stuff...
Because you dont have a Warband Benefactor to protect you.... and thosr guys want Bolters.
Its not fun to be Chaos
Could it possibly be that relying on good, old laws of physics leads to tech that is more consistent, reliable, and easier to mass produce and innovate upon in comparison to the one that relies on warp bullshit and demons being either forcefully bound or refusing not to be an asshole that particular day?
And could it be that a Galaxy-wide empire has more resources, production facilites and trained manpower to manufacture said technology in comparison to the, you know, the mutant-filled, war-torned hellscape of the EYE OF TERROR?
Thing is, Chaos followers being assorted flavors and depths of insane gets in the way of the rationality required for industrial R&D processes.
In the warp physics work so differently that anything done there might not work at all in real space.
Also, because Chaos is basically magic radiation, so ancient tech, especially the largest and most complex pieces, tends to pick up corruption on its own, so even pre-existing things they excavate are a potential time bomb.
All of this and he didn't even mention that techno reset basically happened twice when the schism of Mars caused the mechanicum to nuke itself back to the dark ages and infected what's left with daemons honestly I just feel bad for the cog boys
Personally, when it comes to the Men of Iron rebelion I want to believe that it was a combination of bad treatment (say whatever you want about their place in the ancient human society in the end of the day they were pretty much slaves) and the Void Dragon/Omnissiah deciding to raise his middle finger. This would make things even more interesting since it would mean that Big E is once again responsible for humanities rise and fall since he was the one who trapped The Shard of the VD on Mars
My headcanon is that navigators had an help with it because they feared that they would have become useless once they made a FTL travelling system better than warp drive
@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593 granted the only thing keeping them from being called unsanctioned psykers and tossed in black ships or just outright killed is the fact they exist, i wouldn't be surprised if there's heavy involvement by navigators for self preservation.
Bad treatment? Bruh they're machines, they're whole purpose is solely to do two things and which is to help with labour and military. Also the void dragon had nothing to do with the uprising, because the timelines weren't connected prior to the men of iron rebellion, cause half the army was tainted and the other half willingly chose to fight alongside humanity. Big E did some questionable stuff, but he is solely the reason why mankind is still alive to this day.
@@vothbetilia4862 chaos had nothing to do with the war of the men of iron and i mean the men of iron are self-aware and sentient if you still treat them like items you deserve what they'll do to you
@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593 actually no there has been chaos activities for a while now in the dark age of technology and the men of iron were easily corrupted simply without a soul, because without a soul, your body is easily to be taken. Also this is one of the reasons half of their data for technology was gone because it got tainted and spread like wildfire. And to this day the mechanicus despise them for it.
And they were items, they were ALWAYS items, they were made to help Labours and provide military support as intended.
I’m not touching the killer death machine that somehow runs off prayers of something, Someone else can fail that Darwin test.
Thank you pancy, your helping me through a rough day again. Love this channel almost as much as lorecrimes
My problem with the mechanicus and tech is that people vastly underestimate how people can figure things out, yes, putting together microchips and software from ancient systems would be nearly impossible for one person, however modern day life was built by 117 billion people across millions of years, since the stone age ended 25 thousand years ago, in that time we have had advanced to the point where reverse engineering is a possibility for things like microchips, it can sometimes take multiple peices if tech, and many teams, but for the most part, so long as as you can take things apart, document it, and then put it back together, with a team of people you can understand the concept of how the technology works, and once you understand the concept, you can build from there until the concept works well, so long as they built it with the base platform behind it being that design then no chaos god could interact with it, as they have an end point, and even in trenches neat infinite fuckery, he can't turn a concept that multiple tech preists understand to a simple degree into such warp shenanigans, but even if he could, then the mechanicus shouldn't be the only people that ever fuck with with how prideful space marines are depicted they should have fucked with technology themselves to learn how to get non mechanicus manufacturing centers, particularly people like the salamanders who are expert craftsmen and seem to understand how there power armor, weapons and vehicles function, however even if they didn't, then you'd expect to see random plantery governors with how comically evil they are having there own research teams in hopes of not needing the mechanicus there to take the resources that that governor wants to use to make his palace another ten thousand square feet per year
The Stone Age began about 2.6 million years ago, when researchers found the earliest evidence of humans using stone tools, and lasted until about 3,300 B.C. when the Bronze Age began.
Its not that easy in the setting. First off, the mechanicus has the sole monopoly on tech, and they enforce it. It's not that easy to keep something like this from them, for the simple reasons the mechanicus is EVERYWHERE, as techpriests are required everywhere The Imperium will try to stop you, but the mechanicus will find you, lobotomise you into a servitor, take whatever you tried researching, classify it, and toss it into a vault to not be seen again if it's not harmful. Also its heavily implied that a great deal of the tech in the golden age of technology is directly the result of AI researching it, add to the mix what the imperium in general thinks of true AI and you will see the issue. Regarding chaos gods, we do understand what the warp is and what it can do? Remember, Orks make red things go fasta because they think the color red does make things faster. Now apply such type of influence at beings that are the embodiment in the psych sense of concepts and how much they can do... fuck, following the example of the grenade they can give you the design for a grenade that explodes like a baneblade main cannon, but they fuck around with the laws of reality and now it spawns a warp portal. And if they can't do that for whatever reason, there is always the example of the mechanicus world that kinda said "fuck this, we research the cure for all diseases". They did.It worked so well it turned the planet an Utopia regarding diseases. So, and stealing someones comment, Nurgle, god of pestilences among other things, opened a big ass portal and diarrhea shotguned the world full of Great Unclean Ones (aka major demons) until everything was no more. You can try to develop new things, but do it at your own risk and of all those in the same city/world/system/sector.
@@KarolusTemplareV yea I'm sure the plantery governors that regularly do shit that make slannesh blush are scared of the mechanicus
Thats why the whole idea of "forgotten tech" is kinda silly and dumb, humans are a curious bunch, even if you gave us a one of a kind thing, lets say an alien weapon, we would try to reverse engineer it, especially after thousands of years. But hey even the "rational" guys in the settings think making giant anime mechs is the way to go, instead of just making tanks and planes which are 100x cheaper and more effective.
@@jimmycarburator2012 I would say that is the most convincing argument I've heard for the mechanicus, but I still think that mechanics with no supervision on hive worlds would have been able to start to invent new useful things, and at some point the plantery govenor is gonna want in on that action when he sees that the mechanicus is stealing a lot of what he sees as his shit
Pancreasnotwork again proving to me that it’s better to write AUs about 40k than following most of what they come up with
I remember reading on the wiki how the imperium found the stc for the ultimate panacea but before they could actually start using it the dark eldar came and stole it because 40k
Yet another reason why I want the dark eldar to be eradicated from the setting.
Which is something I choose to ignore. Because the Dark Eldar, like everyone, hates Chaos. Even if one of them was stupid enough to rob the Imperium of something that would severely weaken a Chaos God, Vect would _never_ tolerate such an act. That the person who did it was his consort at the time is just all the more reason to refuse to accept this as remotely believable in-universe. Vect would be insanely furious at such an idiotic move because Vect is one of the few Dark Eldar capable of seeing and operating within the big picture.
One of my problems with 40k lore is the numbers are often so much more unrealistic than the setting itself. Big one for me is not the age of technological stagnation thing, but the fact that this age has lasted for ten. Thousand. Years. Ten thousand years is about the time that agricultural civilisations have been around. And yet, a population of not trillions, but quadrillions, haven't had an innovative thought that managed to sneak though the cracks of authority. A thousand years would be unrealistic but plausible, hell, a few hundred years would be realistic for a society like the 40k imperium. But no, we live in a universe where the authors can't count
On the other hand, it took more than a hundred thousand years for homo sapiens from evolving from their hominid ancestors to even start the Agricultural Revolution in the first place. Another thing to consider is the fact that the Age of Strife was different for various parts of the former Dark Age Humanity empire. Some regions devolved into techno-barbarian post-apocalypse or even medieval/stone age levels of technology (Terra, future wild and death worlds, feudal worlds), but some managed to preserve their technology (Martian Mechanicum, for example) or event invent their own stuff (Interrex from the time of Horus Heresy, Leagues of Votann).
You forget the utter and complete authoritarian aspect of the imperium.
yeah, I'm sure people do innovate, a little. But anyone caught doing anything too far, say, beyond making a two slice toaster into a 4 slice toaster, is gonna get stomped on. Then, if they don't get stomped on the chaos bad guys start getting involved and make that toaster into a Daemon portal.
Stagnation or very slow decline is the only way to survive in the 40k universe after everything that has happened
Longer... the Golden One was forbidding Technology before it was cool.
It is only hard to accept because the population numbers, if humanity had died back to just Terra... sure, that lack of technology progression would be understandable. As it is though, where there are millions thrown into meat grinders every battle... surely someone out there will have written down some improvements to said grinder! Even in a society where innovation is frowned upon, there are always someone willing to try something new when things get desperate, and those willing to implement it when shown that it works on the battlefield.
Maybe that farming world will never grow past the feudal stage, but that hive world also being stuck in progression?
The lack of ai and knowledge makes it insanely difficult, not to mention that the admech are the only ones with stc fragments are conservative and insanely protective. 10k years to invent the steam engines would be impressive with no knowledge of engineering or modern physics.
Making a black hole projector for example like DAOT is like a cave man trying to invent a rocket. For the imperium it's simply not possible.
@@lostbutfreesoul Tzeentch is interested in your ideas. Perhaps you should start chatting with him.
As a Mechanicus enjoyer that hate when people simplifies them as just "dumb and dogmatic". This video was a breath of fresh air.
May the Motive Force flows through thy veins of copper for eternity my malfunctioning-pancreas friend.
No one ever asks WHY they’re dogmatic.
I feel as though GW should at some point pull some dark age tech outta the dark cells or just somewhere (like every other bs stc discovery plotline) but it should actually have consequences. Yeah occasionally there are certain discoveries that actually do good for the imperium, but nothing substantial has been added to the plot recently besides “hehe i made good marines” cawl, and maybe some recent vehicles. Which to be fair, works i guess? But there hasn’t been “Oh we discovered this world engine and now Gilly or Lion have to fight the imperium and mechanicus for control or destruction of the object.”
ADB has some good plot lines with discoveries, but, not really?
Also Josuke Ending is canon
I see that you are a men of culture as well
JOSUKE ENDING IS CANON
if its in the dark cells its in the dark cells for a reason.
13:34
I love that idea. Really adds a lawyer to the Mechanicus not discussed. That they KNOW how fucked the universe is so they know they have to be careful.
Honestly, in that situation, I too would like to just, remove the parts of my brain and body that cause stress and replace them with machine parts.
Can we all take a moment and thank Pancreas for actually putting the credits to the artists etc in big don't that dominates the video for a few seconds thank you sir for having tegrity'
My favorite example of the "we have it but don't understand it" from the mechanicus is when some of the tech priests were captured by the Tau, who also came across a crashed Imperial ship with a warp drive, and the Tau demanded the tech priests explain to them how it works, and the Tech priests were straight up like: "We have no idea how this thing works. We just know that if we light incense and rub oil on it, it works and does what it needs to." 🤣
Also now, apparently, if the Imperium was going full ahead with innovation, they would have made the new Vashtarr a full Chaos God ages ago. That guy got to demigod status on the scraps from Admech (inventing the Primaris, etc) and Tau (despite weak souls) innovation.
Vashtoor is creation. So a manufactorium doing its thing feeds vashtoor
@@thenerfkid9228 No.
"Vashtorr was created from technological innovation and experimentation, and has gained power from events in the Materium such as the rise of the Necrons, the Cursed Founding, and creation of the Primaris Space Marines."
Ehh...
Not the best lore edition. I get that they're trying to make another Belakor, but all of this stuff is Tzeench's shtick already.
@@alexkaplan6581tzeench has as much claim to technology as he has to murder or diseases. Sure, murdering something changes it from living to dead, but that's still going to khorne
I wonder if games workshop will focus on making a “skaven like” faction in 40k
Should. Some fantasy skaven were already horriffically monster-like from their mutations, just sci-fi them and it's kind of done. Warp-stone could be inserted into 40k like a glove.
Let's see
There is a species that live in warrens, in disgusting horrible squalor where backstabbing is life.
This species make larger versions of themselves, their tech is dangerous, radioactive, and user safety is a punchline.
They have a council of thirteen
And they live under/over a Holy Roman Empire style government.
And has a council of 13 with their God
It's the Imperium of Man
God I wanna see a sci fi but still looks like it’s made from garbage skaven ship lol
Can even make it interesting to give them crazy heat adaptations and they burrow instead of some cave like burrows, they take advantage of the heat coming from a planet's magma layers.
Could be fun having a Kriegsman digging deep of a trench and discovering a Skaven underground bunker and imagine the rest. Could bring up a new faction, and make the Kriegsmen more interesting, give em some touch ups other than boring suicidal zealots.
But maybe I'm taking it too far.
Speaking of kriegsman they would somewhat complement the skaven with their gas masks and since morale is not a issue it could make some cool moment’s like a skaven type of vraks and their backstory is from experiments from the dark mechanicum causing skaven, could make a good story
you know, this actually clears up a lot of misunderstandings i had with the Admech, which is funny cuz they're my main faction
0:22 Wait wait wait, are you implying that your diabetes is self-inflicted for the safety of mankind? That just raises MORE questions!
mf had to nerf himself
One point to make is that even if the imperium's technology is what it is, the biotech side of things is rather really advanced even compared to some of the other races tech, like rejuvenation treatment is common enough to be accessible by civilian elites, can mass produce advanced transhumans (Astartes), can mass produce clones to supplement lacking numbers (Krieg) and even cyberware enhancements can be seem in characters who could be considered mid to low ranked.
Like in comparison the only way i've seen the Tau increasing the natural lifespan of an important individual is through stasis.
Even if they still don't understand how most of this stuff works and is still heavily regulated, the technologies i mentioned are not strictly under mechanicus authority.
dark eldar are on a whole other level, they could grow a whole body from a pinkie and bring back that person's soul. They can make you feel the worst pain in existence and make you into living flesh objects. There was even a time they made people into living sentient soup to eat. Fabius Bile who can successfully clone primarchs was taught by dark eldar haemonculi.
the t'au ethereals bans a lot of life prolonging tech irrc for their own weird reasons
@@jart1984 Because they live naturally longer than other Tau (still far less than a human from the 21st century). However the Tau Earth Caste Stone Dragon from the Enclaves has pretty much invented immortality by using nanobots
@@_NIKOS9_NIKOS ye they probably dont want any other centuries old joe schmoe outlive their reign over the common castes (regular t'au only lives for about 40+ years old). farsight boys in red still dont give a damn about those bozos tho lol
Since some still don't get the idea, let 1d4chan sum it up.
Build a library, fill it with all human knowledge. You take it elsewhere when you need a book from it, but the book is only a simplified copy. You don't understand the real book, and you don't need to. Nobody takes the real books anywhere because why would you when there's a whole library there?
Now that library goes rogue and the maintenance machinery starts killing everyone any-fucking-where near it. Where the fuck did they all come from, you swear to god there weren't this many, and there weren't because they're using the library's information to fight their war. The government fights a battle that destroys the planet against these robots and tears apart the library to stop them from using it, only to be destroyed in the process. The library is leveled, cast into flames, every book burned and every computer virus-laden.
Then comes a man who worked there. He talks to the few surviving library workers, assembles their information, and starts rebuilding a city around the library and expanding it as the librarians find little scraps of paper and fragmented bits of files that stuck together just right to read something. They rebuild a library from scrap on the ashes of the old. It isn't a shadow on the glory of the old, but it is all they have.
Then the city turns on itself, kills its master, and the librarians turn to rage. Half of them kill the other half and destroy the remnants of the library because where they're going they won't need science. Everything burns and the city is left to a scattered few survivors, walls open to the world, with the hungry predators circling.
The Adeptus Mechanicus is the sole surviving librarian, desperately scrabbling through the ashes of paper and splinters of hard drives for anything to help him and the city he needs to survive just a second longer.
The Imperium isn't grim because things suck by choice and could be fine if a sensible person came along. That sensible person wouldn't survive fifty seconds of the reality. The Imperium is grim because every single shit decision, every single sacrifice, every single death, every single man woman and child suffering a shit life in the worst conditions imaginable, is the absolute best that can be done. It is a study of the worst happening to everyone and what part of your humanity must be sacrificed today just to stand a chance of survival, and all it asks is whether or not it would have perhaps been better to die."
This is why anyone who wants to emulate the Imperium IRL ought to be committed. For all the evil in today’s world, it doesn’t come close to halfway the situation that would make the Imperium even somewhat a good idea.
Every civilisation in 40K found a new and exciting way to trip and fall under a fucking bus one after another, and are now severely impaired and cranky because they need assistance to use the bathroom
Minor counterpoint, the imperium is certainly in a desperate situation that requires some evil, but even then it’s a lot crueler than it needs to be. Aerosol injections for the sake of a single parade which completely ruins the remaining biosphere, cloning child soldiers and teaching them that they need to die in trenches because of someone who lived on their planet did thousands of years ago, practicing mass lobotomization on soldiers suffering from extreme PTSD that they can’t be bothered to treat, ect.
Which would be true if not for the fact that the Mechanicus's ultimate goal is restoring the Age of Technology and uplifting humanity and that their primary form of worship is making advanced technology, the more advanced the better. So, no. The reason it's so screwed up is because the writers wrote themselves into a corner and so the only way to keep the grimdark in a way that doesn't require creative thinking for their stories is to ignore the fundamental nature and values of the Mechanicus and every other part of the Imperium. Oh, and the fact that the Temple of All Knowledge was not compromised and, even if it was, the Imperial Palace has a backup. So, literally none of the knowledge was actually lost.
-Hear about squad broken from this video
-curious on what it is
-look it up
-read it
-Get traumatized
-they did my boyz dirty ngl
So, the 40k universe is the equivalent of multistory structures, indoor plumbing, and motorized vehicles in three wheeled countries.
Space Elves > everyone else, finally a channel who shares the same opinion, a man with actual good taste in this hobby.
death
Space elves < everything else
@@feosty5526 blind fanatic
@@sephiroaone-of-nine101 basic logic*
Nah. I'm not big on the bunch of dunderheads who murderfucked so hard that the entire species became bound to the god of murderfucking.
Particularly when the entire species is frigging psychic, it's most respected members can see the future, and all in all REALLY should've seen this coming.
I keep getting ads about diabetes and the theory I choose to believe is that my phone knows I'm subscribed to this channel, keeps hearing me say 'pancreas no work' to my friends and family and thinks I talk like a caveman with a biology degree.
Blessed be those who KNOW the Josuke ending is canon
I'd like to make a little addendum to why the Mechanicus can't just copy other factions designs and tech to advance human tech:
Even if you somehow got your hands on necron stuff, it was never meant to be used by our monkey brains, many xenarite tech priests (the Mechanicus sect that believes in learning from alien technology) end up losing their minds and getting corrupted by necron technology. You can see an example of this in the Mechanicus "Heretek" DLC.
Eldar stuff is all psychic based and we cannot even begin to comprehend what it is made of (wraith bone).
Ork stuff, specially the few things better than our own, like attack moons, dont actually work, they just think it does and enough orks together can turn belief into reality. Once they managed to power a looted baneblade with a picture of an engine going "vroom vroom" instead of an actual engine.
And tau stuff, while it should be technically safe, it is also heavily implied its taking the same route down the tech tree as Dark Age humanity, and that means it will blow up on their face too.
Small correction on the Ork stuff, the technology of orkz can work, but only when they evolve enough, for example the kroot ships actually work and they got all their tech trough eating mechanic orkz
@@fcomolineiro7596 It is probable they accessed krork DNA strands hidden deep in their genes to develop their ships (since they look nothing like modern ork stuff from what I've seen).
@@axios4702 correct
gonna need a source on the orks one because that sounds very much more like a meme than actual lore, people like to overhype what the gestalt field can actually do
@@ce5122 literally just search kroot lore, or search krorks lore
Y'know, while I love 40k, the one thing I hate about it more than anything else in the entire setting, more than xenos barely getting any genuine attention, more than Primarchs being bigger mary-sues than Superman, is that the Imperium is right.
The writers at GW makes the universe bend over backwards to insure that the ideology of a genocidal, fascist, totalitarian, theocratic hellscape so dystopian that makes Ingsoc from 1984 look like the Federation from Star Trek is objectively correct.
I know depiction is NOT endorsement, so I don't think the writers are bad people or anything, it just bothers me.
You know, the fact that GW recently revealed that 40K has it's first Hashut or Horned Rat level minor Chaos Deity in the form of Vashtor makes this video make even more sense in hindsight. The Dark Mechanicus created a GOD OF INVENTION. You try improving something, you're literally just feeding the enemy more power.
"It just takes one guard regiment to decide that Khorne is in fashion this season and you've just lost yourself a sector"
I love this channel.
The writing here is hilarious
Once again, I wish there was more hard science stories in 40k
“Everyone isn’t dumb because shut up, it’s because trying smart stuff gets everyone killed”
Warhammer makes so much more sense now.
Ah metamorphosis thank god for the jojos ending the true canonical ending
I have the thumbnail as my desktop wallpaper and for a moment i thought to myself "wtf are you doing with my pc"
The best and worst part when one looks at the Mechanicus is that they did NOT outright ban Invention, the problem is that the Mechanicus runs on 16 Lores, 8 Mysteries and 8 Warnings and the most amusing and mind baffling part of that are lore 3 and lore 16.
Lore 3 is "Sentience is the ability to learn the value of knowledge."
Lore 16 is "To break with ritual is to break with faith."
During the time of Big E the Mechanicus invented a lot, from different Armour Types to quality of life inventions.
Technically the 16 Lores tell you to go out and find stuff and be aware of Xenotech because its weird but they never forbid invention, to stop Inventing is to break with faith but because that was so long ago it became a new tradition and to break that tradition is to break with faith and my god I love it.
Yeah they didn't ban invention. It's that a lot of the technology used by the Imperium is so advanced, no one wants to risk breaking something they can't fix. Straying from protocols they know are guaranteed to work recklessly endangers equipment that is hundreds, if not thousands, of years old. Writing has only been around since ~3500 BC (so a bit under 8,000 years by 2022).
Imagine if some asshole cracked the Rosetta Stone, burned the Dead Sea Scrolls, or chipped off pieces of the Epic of Gilgamesh when these things were first discovered. Then realize there are titans that have been in service for longer spans of time in 40k.
I personally prefer a mechanicus that has regressed to have an average level of scientific knowledge less than ours. People deny science as a result of religious dogma all the time, and the mechanicus idea of machine spirits seems perfectly positioned to replace actual understanding. I feel depicting them as actually reasonable undercuts any of the imperiums thematic elements.
That's not really fair, looking at Islam and Christianity for example had many monks and religious scholars who lead advances in biology, math, etc.
A Christian monk was the one to help develop selective breeding for plants
And while the admech can be conservative many of them view their religion in different ways, so much so some cog boys will dig up necron tombs to advance tech.
The problem with 40k is even tho they can steal Necron tech, the necrons have been around for millions of years even before the great sleep. Also with tech so advanced and dependent on stcs and ai
Imperium fans explaining how a massive cathedral with legs and guns is completely reasonable
imperium fans when i show them the square cube law
It’s reasonable because it’s cool
I mean, guys ride in space ships, only to land on planets and bludgeon people with hammers and swords.
So i think Titans are one of the more reasonable things about the setting
If the Mechanicus is coming up with new innovations: it's panic time because somebody is asking an AI questions.
Despoiler class battleships. 3 was built all 3 went full Chaos. Oh, and there was a Forge world that blow itself because some dinky Iron Warriors left “STC” and Mechanicus found it, assembled it and turned on (despite the usual Mechanicus overcautious) So yes, I would say, don’t fuck around technology in 40k is pretty valid point.
Nerfing inventiveness is the only way you keep a setting like this stable, it’s useful.
Didnt Cawl did the same thing with your whole "isolate yourself in a planet and start inventing" analogy?
It seems to me the only thing the Imperium, or very much Humanity itself be able to start actually get some new tech is to actually do some of that but in a smaller scale
As was said on 1d4chan, give the Imperium a few millennia of peace and they'd come back harder than they were during the Great Crusade.
This situation is basically how the Tau got their start, six thousand years real time (who knows how long from their perspective) isolated with nothing coming to cause issues. Sure, they've added some new tech since then, mostly ion weapons, but it's implied they traded for human DAoT knowledge/examples/schematics with the Leagues of Voltann to get those among other things. The Tau have iteratively improved what they started with, but full on revolutionary innovation seems to have slowed to a crawl. It's almost as if being in a perpetual state of crisis is bad for R&D progress or something.
time for an essay. i always assumed that STC worked by pluging the STC into the right machine would cause the machine to make that item. have an STC to make engines for a leman russ?, well plug that STC into a machine the size of an amazon warehouse and you get engines for the russ.(how do we make the machines? you guessed it, use an STC). really complicated items may require dozens of machines feeding their outputs into each other until you get a plasma gun. (like factorio, or satisfactory).
lets introduce magos Stig, and he loves engines, so much that he spends 2000 years learning everything he can about the Leman Russ engine. now he decides that he wants to improve it, after another 1000 years he has a design that is 33% better then the STC engine, and can be installed and operated exactly the same as the regular engine.
well magos stig cant just make his new engine into an STC, plug it into a fabricator machine and have new better engines come out, he instead needs to take an STC engine and upgrade it, but he cant just do that, he needs to hand make all the new parts and install them as well. (naturally magos stig is going to use some servitors or train some plebs to do the worst of the work, but its slow) lests say that at the start they can make five new engines a day, but will ramp up production years down the line. we have two problems.
problem 1) the new engines are put into leman russ tanks and they work great, up until the tanks need engine repairs. the tech priest assigned to the job pulls the engine out, and sees a new engine that he has no idea on were to start working on. (hopefully he dosent cry tech heresy) not sure what to do, he replaces the engine with a standard one. the guard goes through engines faster then magos stig can make them, so the new engines never see wider service, and the improved performance is limited to a very, very small area around stig;s forge world.
problem 2) the forge world that stig is using is invaded. lets say that stig has been at this for 100 years, and can now produce a good number of engines per day, still not enough to get them wide spread, but enough to fill out a few tank regiments. when stigs forge world is attacked, the assembly line, and servitors, and workers are all killed or destroyed. because the assembly line is all custom, it will take years for stig to fix all the issues and get it working again. (this is assuming that the assembly line has not become such a jumbled mess that it impossible to fix) by the time the line is working again, the reputation of the improved engines has gone from an urban legend, to a myth. if any tech preists ever learned to fix the improved engines, they are all probobly dead by the time the line is fixed. back to square 1.
this gets even worse if stig dies at any point. stig is the only person who truly understands the engines. if he dies, then any hope of fixing problems in the assembly line, or rebuilding it are gone.
the real issue in 40k is not making new things, it is getting those things out there at a scale large enough to make a difference.
If you think about it, they now have another reason for not advancing technology because it will end up feeding Vashtorr.
Great lore addition
@@IapitusMcHeimer yet more justifications for the imperium's atrocities and regression is not good lore. If this keeps up they are straight up going to make the imperium the "good guys".
The Josuke ending is the fan ending.
The official is the drawing of the entire story being a JAV movie in manga format.
The inquisition also banned the AdMech from reverse-engineering T'au tech
In the grim darkness of the far future, there is still that horrible doujin that I refuse to acknowledge.
Morias Leuze from Space Marine 2 says hi
This is the comment i was looking for when around min 6:00 xD lmao
From what I've seen, the fundamental problem is the Mechanicus are NOT scientists; they're engineers, they're mechanics, they're tech support.
They don't operate by the scientific method, where you methodically test and verify and work based on data. They just kind of... try shit, and if something works, they stick to it, even if it includes a dozen unnecessary steps.
In your example of the one guy getting a stroke of inspiration and somehow accidentally making a demon grenade: that doesn't happen in science; that doesn't happen if your method is to verify and peer review data and meticulously control all parameters of an experiment; it happens if your approach is to just mess around until maybe something works, and hack stuff together.
The real grimdark here is that actual scientific thought is truly dead: humanity is back to medieval times, where maybe you had something invented every century by a single eccentric guy somewhere, who quite possibly then got executed for his trouble.
How I personally see it is "You don't get to develop new technology, but you can use existing tech to make sth. new, i.e.
"Predator couldn't deal with tanks well so I replaced all the guns with lascannons."
Using already proven and well known technology to create new stuff.
5:06 - ... Why? Everything was chilled vibes before you decided to bring that up. She got saved by some Jojo characters, that's all anyone needs to know. Also enjoying the lore video.
5:27 - Ah, my faith in humanity is restored.
A rouge Logi founded an improved Mechanicus. A special chamber with holy wards and seals were a person can contemplate innovation without fear of daemonic influence or their medaling with your thoughts.
Or just activate a warp shield since that is the biggest middle finger to anything chaotic
@@fcomolineiro7596 How long could they kept up?
@@madvulcan8964 well a gallar field, a good one probably a good couple of years
Pancreas i cant thank you enough for your videos explaining warhammer dilemmas and complex concepts. i dont know exactly how but the way you word all of it and demonstrate it just makes it click in my head like youve perfectly simplified the solution to whatever related statement. whatever the case, loving the videos!
hey Pancreas, one question, how would you make the beastman(and other minor abhumans) become a functional imperial subfaction in 40k(not chaos cuz chaos is cringe)?
You could make them a better penal legion or a special type of Tau Guevesa squad
The power plant analogy is a bit flawed.
First off: I may not know how it works, but I have everything needed to figure it out. I have the functioning plant and some scientific know how to infer the functionality of various parts of the whole. I can make models of isolated pieces to tweak them until I find the correct answer.
Remember, I've got plenty of time.
Secondly:
Any problems that arise in manufacturing require their own solutions. But that's always the case. Manufacturing machines/tools are specialized equipment meant to do one thing. Which ones you need to design depends on your needs.
It took us humans around 150 years to go from the era of industrialization to an era where we we have calculating machines in our hands that allows us to communicate with all kinds of people all over the world in seconds.
And yes, that includes not only coming up with most of the theories relating to Nuclear power plants, the technology to verify and utilize those theories as well as develop these power plants from scratch.
The Tech Priests had more than 9000 years.
PS:. Also worth remembering that _supposedly_ the likes of Space Marines and Tech Priests are all hyper intelligent geniuses via their gene modification and implants.
I like to think that 40k will have its own “Jojo ending”.
This is just the “Nobody knows how to make a pencil” thing but on a galactic scale
>1 minute of reasons that they're at fault for
>10 of reasons they're absolutely goated for
This pleases the Machine God
"The Josuke ending is Canon."
Mood-Kindred!
The perspective of the Mechanicus really resonates with the worldview of Numenera.
The FTL soundtrack in the background is kind of comical now that Void War came out
9:21 honestly that never made sense to me for one specific reason an AI is physically incapable of feeling emotion literally they can't do it they don't have any of the biological aspects required they can't feel resentment they can't feel anger they can't feel mistreated then again this is 40k and I'm expecting it to be reasonable
So as someone who knows nothing of WH40k, what I got from this video is that Humanity reached a peak in technology and through both culture and war degraded itself to a point where the technology exists but no one knows exactly how it works. And though they would love to learn how it works, they have both no time and no resources to learn it... While also having all the time and all the resources.
At the same time, however, knowledge is limited because the culture calls for a cease in creativity (cuz of the gods and demons) and because people are selfish and power hungry and are happy to gain but not to give.
what happened was a super mega apocalypse happened that cut off humanity from each other for many many years, the aftermath is a dangerous combination of a whole range of tech ranging from regular spears to super weapons in the hands of different post apocalyptic cultures. During the unification of mankind the adeptus mechanicus from mars allied with the imperium and they eventually were put in charge of all technology. The adeptus mehanicus' religious creed contributed even more to the unstable state of technology. Daemons aren't as much of an issue as this video says it is, the mechanicus are just extremely ignorant and superstitious.
@@ce5122 so the Daemons dont play as much of a physical approach, but their existence alone does because of the Mechanicus' superstitions?
@@Isaacreeper kinda, they are more afraid of the consequences of ai and how rampant technology is dangerous and their religious beliefs are formed around that, advancement can be blasphemous and their practices like combining humans with technology or praying to machine spirits regresses tech. They even see alien technology as a perversion and study of it is controversial.
@@Isaacreeper yeah daemons' whole schtick are "woah if you think too much then maybe I'll become real 😳". that's why the grey knights are so adamant on wiping any witnesses as to not spread the mere knowledge of daemons to the rest of the imperium.
Don’t ever apologize for missing videos: they are simply lost in the warp. Eventually they might show up. Maybe even in the past! 😂
8:54 This is the core of maintaining legacy code in software development.
This kind of ignores how technology develops though. No one invented the steam engine. The majority of technological advances come from people trying things and using what works well discarding what doesn't. Often by applying seemingly unrealated consepts to the problem. How dose this bomb work? Can we slow down this process to make energy out of it? We know how a solor cell works. Can we do something similar with heat? Combined that with the huge selection pressure the Imperium is consistently under means this level of technological stagnation is pretty much impossible.
They got the idea for tech priests form The Foundation series. And in that it makes sense. The Empire had no one to fight, and no reason to innovate. The Imperium has every reason to try new things see what works and discard the rest.
This is also why they should probably be less cruel. As my boy Cain keeps pointing out if your troops like you you're far more likely to make it to the age where you can retire and become a teacher.
Too be clear I'm fine with this. Like you said it's just the setting. It's just that part of the fun I have with the setting is pointing out when it's stupid.
and thats the mechanicus in a definition they are a walking contradiction they are superstitious scientists they as a concept should not work.
Been going through your archives; great work man. Also I still love the FTL soundtrack to this day; still have the wonders of space as the war comes to a close....Magic.
Nifty video; while I knew the basic facts of it for a while, I hadn't really combined it all in my head before now. This makes me like the AdMech a lot more. If they were able to use the various Mars-pattern Astra Militarum vehicles in their armies, this would make me a lot more inclined to play them on tabletop. Alas, my tank fixation prevents me from finding satisfaction in their Da Vinci-punk vehicles.
That's what conversions are for.
5:21 Oh god PancreasNoWork, you're giving me PTSD flashbacks here. Saki deserved better...
If you think about it, the reason there's no Skaven in 40k
Is because the imperium is ALREADY the Skaven in 40k😂😭
nah, Ikkit Claw would laugh his grey ass off seeing how the cogboys can't make a chaos-powered nuke without having a panic attack.
or Throt, watching how Cawl needed 10k years to make a slightly bigger version of their rat-ogres.
Skaven rule-reign all!
How dare you! The Skaven have a WAY better quality of life!
To be fair getting tortured to death or killed in general is one of the reason why things haven’t been changing fast enough.
I could make something helpful for humanity but you see it says here I will be killed or worse
4:18 the mechanicus must have hated the interex
3:40 god that fallout new vegas lobotomite doge meme is the most meta ironic crossover bullshit i've seen in a while. i need to get me some more of those grimdark worlds with crazy tech doge memes more often
interesting to think the tau are making such rapid progress, yet at the same time, if allowed the tau will eventually develop until they make their own men of iron, and have their own revolt and put some limits on technology, the younger races kinda have an advantage that way.
I wonder if there is any tech the elder put limits on. The necrons lost to/merged with their technology so I doubt they have many limitations
If that happens it will probably occur in the Farsight Enclaves since the Ethereals do putt some restrictions to technologies that they deem to be too dangerous/barbaric while Farsight pretty much allows the Earth caste to go ham with no serious supervision
Wait the josuke ending is actually CANON?!
Thank you for this video, this explains a situation I was very doubtful about very well. Keep up your awesome work ^^
This is one thing nobody can blame on the Emperor. He let the Mechanicum innovate the tech they had and gave them limits of where they could not but everything else was good to go. However the Heresy ruined this and the Emperor was not there to listen to so they became even more strict on tech and how they develop it.
What is this, Mechanicus month? Have you finally decided to replace your pancreas with a small 3d printer to make insulin and bootleg forgeworld models?
Why? Because the 40K universe is based on Mediveal Europe...an outdated view of Mediveal Europe were they were thought in schools (and to some degree today) were Mediveal Europe was stagnated and backwards. Well well well...we now have new information and new studies that says otherwise. Medieval Europe was far from stagnated and it wasn't really backwards at least for their time. Europe (and later their colonies) from the Mediveal time to now had the fastest changes in technology then anywhere in the world.
Basically in shot if they started or invented the 40k story now they would have the imperium not backwards and not stagnated.
Considering all the information and Cawl being Cawl. I'd rather have the Mechanicus be the way it is rather than innovate and create Primaris 2 Warp Fuckery Boogaloo.
But of course innovation works for the Tau, thanks to Chaos not screwing them over. The Emperor performed so much innovation like with the Custodes, but that was because Chaos didn't meddle in that affair. So basically, like always, Chaos is at fault. Even though the Imperium might be able to make functional AI if the did the Tau thing and made basic servant drones. Think Servitors but without the human body parts that were left over from the creation process.