I really like his take that every day is a humiliation for Russians so they even don’t notice it anymore. I agree 100% it’s triggering for me to see how humiliating the laws are, the military forces which thinks they are gods on earth, your boss who in 99,9 % also sees himself as a god and you are the dust on his shoes
Nineteen ninety one, This fellow (expert) is either a lunatic or a fool who thinks he's addressing idiots. Could not be further from reality. Enough said. The western war machine has been going for decades.
One of my bosses in Kyiv was a Western-educated Russian woman who was extremely abusive and inefficient as a leader. Whenever she had an ugly outburst she’d try to win her team’s favour back with parties and bonuses. But it was obviously taking time and effort for people to warm up to her after being humiliated. She kept asking what was wrong and insisted that her leadership style was a part of the process. I’ve come to realise that she truly didn’t see anything wrong about her abuse and also desperately wanted to be loved and respected. I now see that pattern throughout the war in Ukraine. It’s terrifying. Russia needs therapy not another war.
Ruzzia made the wrong decision and chose war, when they would have had enough money from energy sales to cure its people by therapy, building a functioning society and state. They chose wrong! Now they will loose everything...most of their lives or livelyhoods. Depending on Putin turing his nuclear nightmare scenario into reality!
Farmers are long-term planners, just by being tied to fundamental realities of growing crops. If farmers believe they need to fight, then it's a "people's war" (opposed to "regime change war", where only elites change but not much else) 👍
Thank you for the another great conversation, Mr. Zygar! Since Feb 24, 2022, I have been reading a lot of books on Russia/Ukraine, some written by your guests, including The Road to Unfreedom by T. Snyder, Red Famine by Anne Applebaum, Everyone is Free by yourself, and This is Not Propaganda from Mr. Pomerantsev. I only discovered your channel a few days ago, and I have already watched all episodes. Thank you once again for the great work you do. In a relatively recent article for The Economist, Mr. Pomerantsev wrote about Ukrainian identity, and I wished you asked him more about that, because it seems he has explored the matter through the works of Ukrainian authors, historians and other intellectuals, but perhaps you will have a conversation with one such person in your future episodes.
Michail, thank you for your work. It's a good thing to watch all these talkings in English. Sorry for my poor English I'm in Russia and are trying to lern English although I don' t know for what the hack I'm trying...
Congratulations with your interviews. You deserve a far bigger subscriber base. I'll keep mentioning your channel in other channels' comment threads. Edit: typo's corrected.
A bit like me, I sound as much a un-cultured Aussie hick as a I do a Jugoslav - yes "Jugoslav", if you go back to my grandparents, there's Serbian/Montenegran on mother's side and Bosnian/Croatian on fathers side!
Wow, what insight. How can you not admire the way these two young men are able to communicate about the most complex issues. Psychological and political analysis in one breath? I love the way the interviewer faciltates the flow of the argument with his non-verbal gestures and perfectly timed and probing questions. Inspirational. Thankyou very much indeed.
omg finally! theeeese are the works i need to read. propaganda has become my huge interest in the recent years. im going shopping. and im not gonna eat that well for a few days, because my finances are not that great atm. but whatever.
tough guy seems there was a question in Mikhail's eyes while talking about the visa issues something like: do you really think that it's ok to leave all of the democrats, who are not tortured by the police, meaning hasn't shown their position clearly enough for humanitarian visas, blocked in Russia? and do you really believe that they could beat an authoritarian military state? i wonder what the answer might be thanks for the interview and it's great you're doing it in English!
I think he answered this and asked back if EU should then just do nothing (because of these people) while Putin is breaking all contracts and leads a genocidal war? I mean doing nothing is exactly what Putin expects of somebody weak, that he will not stop to humiliate. He clearly states that this changes everything for everybody and even simple things like visa, shengen treaty etc. are also gone and will need to be renegotiated. Mikhail and all like him will have to face same like passive germans, but also like the ones that opposed the nazi regime, after WW2...just saying that they didnt agree with the dictator isnt enough. As we see in the past and the becoming of Putin, all this didnt happen at once and there had been democratic elections that put him there...fighting police/Omon now is just the end of this process. Do You think ukrainian civilian s like fighting a russian tanc?
cry about it. pomerantsev answered your dumbass self victimizing question - take repsonsibility and stop prentending the genocidal war is not happening
Wyoming may not be the best example for your point, which is an interesting one. It might be even more interesting at a finer focus on specific agricultural communities as identifying with a “small r” republican ethos against a distant empire’s perceived or actual overreach.
I got the impression that the host wanted Peter to express pro-russian position (eg. to critic the "visaban for russians" policy) but mr. Pomerantsev was being a cool dude 😎 "A prejudice towards myself [as a person with a russian background]? Who from? I'm not sure what that would even mean.. But I do get put in a list of russofobs"
There is a documentary by adam curtis called traumazone on youtube with hundreds of hours of footage from the soviet union taken by bbc reporters from the late 80s to early 00s, curtis edited the material and reduced it to more or less 10 hours. Mostly just the footage itself with some subtitles for context, and none or very little narration. For me it has been helpfull to understand the russian history in context to the WW1 a 2 and now the war in ukrania. I mention this because listening to the interview i was reminded of this documentary, specially the idea of humilliation. I think its the first time i heard it put that way and definetly the documentary shows that ambiguity of the russian experience
If you’re on desktop, there’s usually the three dots for more and then you should see the “show transcript” option but it will use the auto-generated captions I think.
Speaking of visa policy, Peter has s good point about making it easier for Russians to escape political persecution. That is the thing no EU country has seriously addressed. It’s really hard to get out of the country now, especially for men. Millions of people are here in Russia who hate the regime and don’t want to die and kill for Putin, the world should help them.
Agree to disagree: maybe You should listen again the question he was asked and then to his answer! He said yes to visa for politically persecuted, but the question was more general about EU countries restricting visa to russians and if this is not somehow damaging the relationship to russians who are still protesting (or just fleeing, could be added). And here the answer was that Russia is pissing on all mutual contracts and wants to show that they can do it without Punishment, because they are oh so strong, so....yes this behaviour cant be tolerated and needs to be punished! All will change and he says everything, even small things like visa, needs to be renegotiated. And he asks back if the EU should just do nothing and accept this behaviour from Putin that will interpret it as weakness?! Was Germany pardoned from everything in WW2 just because there was a small part of its citizens fighting the nazis??? No! All this men flee only when its their skin in the game, not before. They dont fight against annihilation of ukrainian life or fight for democracy and against Putin. Many of them tolerated what happens in Ukraina as long as they are not bothered with it! Why make it easy for people like that? Did somebody asked the ukrainian men if they want to fight? Like he says: You need to loose first
War presents us all with tough choices. Europe is overrun with Ukrainian refugees. By far, the priority is in aiding them in addition to keeping them from having to interact with Russians. We cannot afford to let any steam out of Russia because ultimately your and our future possibility of peace lies only with the Russian people having enough.
I wonder your take on the Accusations Audit by Chris Voss, how it can help us not only understand Putin and Russia but also use it to influence him/them? One of the most meaningful statements he made was The fall of USSR was the biggest geopolitical disaster of the 20th century. Putin was a mid ranked KGB agent at the time, working hard for the state. When the announcement of dissolution of the state happened it sounded like this was something that caught him by surprise and something he was not consulted on. It kinda sounds like it was a pivotal moment for him, a moment a deep rage set into him. He could have felt a deep sense of helplessness, like... come on guys... what the heck are you doing??? You idiots, what are you thinking?? Having this deep sense of patriotism and a sense of loss could have appealed to the leaders at the time. He’s going to rebuild the country. It would have driven him to centralize control of Russia, both to support oligarchs and to keep them under his thumb. And, once he reached the pinnacle of political power, to start reaching out to consolidate power over border countries like Belarus and Ukraine. Tell me if I’m wrong but it looks like if the Maidan Revolution didn’t happen he would not have invaded Ukraine. It was at that time when Russia’s oligarchs freely did business with Ukrainian oligarchs but the Maidan was the time they pivoted to rule of law so business between the two countries in this way was substantially restricted. They could no longer pick up the phone and just ask for what they wanted, they had push back from bureaucrats, lawyers, the business leaders themselves in a way paying off a few politicians just didn’t overcome. Understanding how Russians honestly think and feel can help us influence them in a way military action can’t. This overwhelming mission Putin started on to rebuild Russia could be what forces him to stay in power. He can’t retire because the Great Mission is not yet accomplished. There is no one he can pass the baton to who he can trust will finish his mission while he steps back and enjoys a happy retirement hunting, fishing, horseback riding, occasionally cheering at memorials of Heroes of the Great War. Chris Voss talks about the vast difference between empathy and sympathy. He pushes the idea so far that he refers to “tactical empathy.” Sun Tsu said we need to understand the enemy and ourselves. That’s tactical empathy.
The interviewer literally acted out "feeling humiliated/therefore, humiliating" -- the Russian psychology which the interviewee described. The interviewee said frank things about Russia and Russians, to which the Russian interviewer aggressively responded by asking if he was a Russophobe. Astonishing. I suspect a lot of this humiliation-fixation in Russian psychology stems from alcoholic fathers who beat their kids (see Gorky). Of course it could just be the stupid games of patriarchy, which neither men addressed.
When it comes to Putin or Russia, I completely agree. Including the statement that Putin lives in his own reality. Unfortunately, when it comes to ivory towers (i.e. Western universities), they too live in their own reality. I will not talk about Bolsonaro, Duterte, Modi or even Orban. I don't really know them enough, or understand their countries and their situation. But when it comes to Trump, I find it ridiculous and obscene that he is made into equivalent of Mussolini or Putin. It offends my intelligence. Trump has been made into Snowball and Emmanuel Goldstein of our time. The real person, good or bad (or both) is completely drowned by endless barrage of h..red. How did Orwell put it: "As usual, the face of Emmanuel Goldstein, the Enemy of the People, had flashed on to the screen. There were hisses here and there among the audience. The little sandy-haired woman gave a squeak of mingled fear and disgust. ... "Before the Hate had proceeded for thirty seconds, uncontrollable exclamations of rage were breaking out from half the people in the room. ... [T]he sight or even the thought of Goldstein produced fear and anger automatically. … In its second minute the Hate rose to a frenzy. People were leaping up and down in their places and shouting at the tops of their voices in an effort to drown the maddening bleating voice that came from the screen. The little sandy-haired woman had turned bright pink, and her mouth was opening and shutting like that of a landed fish. Even O’Brien’s heavy face was flushed. He was sitting very straight in his chair, his powerful chest swelling and quivering as though he were standing up to the assault of a wave. The dark-haired girl behind Winston had begun crying out ‘Swine! Swine! Swine!’ and suddenly she picked up a heavy Newspeak dictionary and flung it at the screen. It struck Goldstein’s nose and bounced off; the voice continued inexorably. In a lucid moment Winston found that he was shouting with the others and kicking his heel violently against the rung of his chair. The horrible thing about the Two Minutes Hate was not that one was obliged to act a part, but, on the contrary, that it was impossible to avoid joining in. Within thirty seconds any pretense was always unnecessary. A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge-hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one’s will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic." I have seen people react to Trump this way: th-cam.com/video/wDYNVH0U3cs/w-d-xo.html (Notice the double-portrait of Mussolini and Trump behind the woman.) And then Orwell says, "And yet the rage that one felt was an abstract, undirected emotion which could be switched from one object to another like the flame of a blowlamp." Now it has been switched onto Trump. And ivory towers are all about it. Have you ever thought that that maybe rulers like Clinton, Obama, Biden, Trudeau, Blair, Brown, Cameron, Chirac, Sarcozy, Macron, Schroder, Merkel, Scholz, Draghi, Lula, Rousseff and others are not exactly angels? (Just look up Dilma Rousseff, for goodness sake!) That maybe there are some real reasons why people have voted for those you h..e? That you don't have to run to psychologists or psychiatrists to explain people's choices in democratic elections? Have you ever listened to people outside the university? Or even inside, such as College Republicans? Whether the elected leaders have turned out good or not is another story. But shouldn't you at least give them some chance, rather then label them the moment you first hear their names? And shouldn't you at least acknowledge some difference between them, and a possibility that some might turn out to be good? That Trump is not responsible for what Duterte is doing? You are so ridiculous. And you don't notice it. Because you are driven by h...red. 14:48 "When it comes to America, it's American imperialism that's [the] driver behind Trump." What imperialism? Under Bush, the US invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. Under Obama it invaded Syria. Who did it invade under Trump? Are American people or Trump voters among them imperialists "Just because I say so?" Do you have any brains? 32:36 "I don't know why, but many people in Europe, as well as in America consider the media they watch on daily basis as propaganda." Really? You really don't know why? Or are you just pretending? To me, the colossal shock of realization of just how much I am being lied to came in 1997 and in 2001, during my two visits to Israel. When I went there, turned on a radio and heard something different form the regular barrage of "Palestinian -- good, Israeli -- bad" and similar inanities (and being there I saw with my own eyes that they were inanities), I felt like I have just escaped from National Socialism. And that was just the beginning. Maybe you should go to Israel and experience it. But of course, one doesn't have to go to Israel. There is plenty of other media manipulation, lies and propaganda, on just about every subject. The only exception I know is the current war in Ukraine. It puzzles me to no end that the same CNN and BBC and the rest of them who lie like they breathe suddenly switch to good reporting when it comes to Ukraine. Actually report from the scene, put their lives in danger. I don't get it.
@@Kurtlane I take it you agree UKR needs help defeating Putin's aggression, but strange the Trump crowd in the House GOP are against further funding. I would expect Putin probably likes that idea, and the chaos within the GOP in recent years. Certainly, Trump comments about shooting looters on site, indicating Milley should have been shot, and doing away with the constitution (PP) should raise at least some concern for most people, don't you think?
@@Humannondancer , like I said, I am very disappointed in Trump. But as I remember his 2016 campaign, he also said a whole load of silly things. (Such as, "We will go back to coal" or "We will close NATO.") Which is why I didn't vote for him. But after he was elected, he did not follow any of these crazy things. In my view, hus presidency was a lot better than Obama's, even though Obama was much more sane in his speeches. For example, Trump actually sent some weapons to Ukraine. Obama didn't, and Biden also didn't until Putin started the full-scale war. So what we really have here is a very strange phenomenon of a candidate gaining popularity and being elected because he pretends to be crazy, but then, once elected, dropping the craziness and being quite good. Which means that the problem is not really in the candidate, but in the people. Who knows which of the new set of craziness candidate Trump is laying out before the electorate he really means to do. Maybe none of it. Cat in the bag. But the demonization of the other party, the other candidate (it doesn't have to be Trump) the Democrats have engaged in us a whole separate issue. And it's just plain evil. People at large are basically being taught to h..e, and then this h..red can be turned against anyone. "The horrible thing about the Two Minute H..e was not that one was obliged to play a part, but that it was possible to avoid joining in. Within thirty seconds any pretense was always unnecessary. A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one's will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic. And yet the rage one felt was an abstract, undirected emotion which could be switched from one object to another like the flame of a blowlamp." - George Orwell. 1984 I am from the Soviet Union, so this has special resonance for me. Things like that really happened under Lenin and Stalin. A hundred years from now Trump will be basically forgotten. But the h..red will stay, and politicians will still use it to throw at anyone who dares stand in their way. This is not the America I found in 1977, when I came to the US. This is more like what I ran away from.
@@Kurtlane Most agree after he was elected he had some good people advising him, and he made some progress in his deescalation efforts with N Korea despite his initial crass communications ala “little rocket man”- "my button is much bigger and more powerful than your button, and mine works". Hardly the sort of thing a good diplomat would say (or Tweet) in public at any time. The firings of most of those who disagreed with his methods later on in his admin, lead to the hiring of mostly "yes men and women" and unqualified family members in office. Again, hardly the tactic of a good statesman. Seems more authoritarian style to me, you know the things Orwell hated - fascism/totalitarianism. I have to point out Orwell was a lifelong supporter of Democratic Socialism. So if those 2 words scare you, why are you quoting from '1984' all over the thread? Strange you try to explain away Trump's craziness, before, in power and since. No mention of the other craziesness of the HOUSE GOP, either. I find that quite baffling. I'd imagine, who one listens to regularly might affect one's mindset and the inability to trust factual sources, with one noted exception? -------------------------------------------------------------- btw: I play Sting's 'Russians' every know and then to remind myself the Russian people were victims over time, and in the current through Putin too. Also, my UKR neighbour here in the UK seems depressed most of the time.
Здесь вопрос а насколько твой "ruler" твой? Интересная картинка учитывая, что Россия уже как сто лет британская криптоколония, чуваки moronство компрадорской элиты ставят в вину аборигенам?!
in an aggressively pc gender and race obsessed world I have become very blokey very visibly heterosexual and very homespun. Like a british version of cooter the mechanic from the dukes of hazard. I have actively had to try to remember my liberal leftist gender bending "new romantic" heritage, grim the days when I listened to the smiths , wore make up and actively rejected outward Masculinity. Now I have slid the other way. I am trying to keep my nuance . But something about modern culture war culture is so tribal it's hard not to pick sides. I am trying not to.
Obama was very authoritarian abandoning Ukraine and as queer he abandoned family. A very odd and dysfunctional understanding of US politics. He gets part of Trump correct, but not all.
A lot of 'tell more about your father' platitudes. However, speaking of fathers: Igor Pomerantsev was a better poet than his son a propaganda specialist. ;)
Wait a second, Ukraine chose the war in 2014, they started it. Saying Russia chose to go to war in March 2022 is like saying the US chose to go to war on June 6, 1944.
Ukraine overthrew a puppet president. Then the Russians started to move in. This doesn’t mean Ukraine started it, means Ukraine wanted to be entirely free.
Yes, there is such a thing as truth and what you wrote is truthful. Ukraine has literally been supplying Russia with propaganda for their cause since day one of this conflict. Torturing and murdering POWs or suspected civilian collaborators on video with great delight, murdering civilians by shelling them on purpose, shooting at civilians, shooting at nuclear power plants(!), hiding their army amongst civilians, wearing nazi paraphernalia and singing songs to Stephan Bandera, erasing all heroes of the Soviet Union in their fight against nazism and in their stead uplifting the UIP leaders who murdered over 100 000 civilians during WWII to Heroes of the Nation, making all opposition illegal and murdering the opposition party’s members and kidnapping their leader for ransom against Russia, making it illegal to teach in the Russian language in Russian speaking cities, etc., etc., ad nauseam. I don’t know of this Peter P. fellows allegiances (clearly not to truth) but John’s Hopkins University is notorious for their connection to Deep State Politics. I hope he is just deluded and not part of an organised propaganda effort. I find it extremely sinister that the US can commit a brazen coup, place actual documented nazis in positions of power and turn Ukraine into an anti-Russia project without any pushback from Western academics.
If Ukraine chose the war what did Russia choose then? Please provide me with a relevant synonym for the occupation and invasion Russia started back in 2014. Hybrid war being just one of them.
@@tobias9859 I can. Occupation of Crimea and Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine. It has long been proven and Russia does not hide the fact that it was her troops who captured this territory. Here we can add the persecution of the Crimean Tatars. There is plenty of evidence that this was not a civil conflict. Russia even now does not hide what they want to get from the territories that they have already captured and that they want to capture the whole of Ukraine. Ukraine did not start a war either in 2014 or in 2022.
I really like his take that every day is a humiliation for Russians so they even don’t notice it anymore. I agree 100% it’s triggering for me to see how humiliating the laws are, the military forces which thinks they are gods on earth, your boss who in 99,9 % also sees himself as a god and you are the dust on his shoes
Nineteen ninety one, This fellow (expert) is either a lunatic or a fool who thinks he's addressing idiots. Could not be further from reality. Enough said. The western war machine has been going for decades.
Congratulations, you if you believe what you just wrote then you have been thoroughly propagandised.
@@tobias9859 An utterly empty statement. Might have as well not written anything at all.
@@l1ghtny Well, if he really believes this nonsense then he has been thoroughly propagandised. That’s simply a fact.
@@tobias9859 I love your ability to not convey any meaningful information with quite a lengthy comment.
One of my bosses in Kyiv was a Western-educated Russian woman who was extremely abusive and inefficient as a leader. Whenever she had an ugly outburst she’d try to win her team’s favour back with parties and bonuses. But it was obviously taking time and effort for people to warm up to her after being humiliated. She kept asking what was wrong and insisted that her leadership style was a part of the process. I’ve come to realise that she truly didn’t see anything wrong about her abuse and also desperately wanted to be loved and respected. I now see that pattern throughout the war in Ukraine. It’s terrifying. Russia needs therapy not another war.
So true!!
Ruzzia made the wrong decision and chose war, when they would have had enough money from energy sales to cure its people by therapy, building a functioning society and state. They chose wrong!
Now they will loose everything...most of their lives or livelyhoods. Depending on Putin turing his nuclear nightmare scenario into reality!
Thank you for your share! I do think we need psychological approach and also perspectives from CEE countries to stop russia as quickest as possible.
Fascinating, insightful comment.
In the hundreds of thousands of words I've read this year re this war none are truer than your last sentence.
I think the image of the farmers in Ukraine appealed to a worldwide audience.
Farmers are long-term planners, just by being tied to fundamental realities of growing crops.
If farmers believe they need to fight, then it's a "people's war" (opposed to "regime change war", where only elites change but not much else) 👍
Thank you for the another great conversation, Mr. Zygar! Since Feb 24, 2022, I have been reading a lot of books on Russia/Ukraine, some written by your guests, including The Road to Unfreedom by T. Snyder, Red Famine by Anne Applebaum, Everyone is Free by yourself, and This is Not Propaganda from Mr. Pomerantsev. I only discovered your channel a few days ago, and I have already watched all episodes. Thank you once again for the great work you do.
In a relatively recent article for The Economist, Mr. Pomerantsev wrote about Ukrainian identity, and I wished you asked him more about that, because it seems he has explored the matter through the works of Ukrainian authors, historians and other intellectuals, but perhaps you will have a conversation with one such person in your future episodes.
Michail, thank you for your work. It's a good thing to watch all these talkings in English. Sorry for my poor English I'm in Russia and are trying to lern English although I don' t know for what the hack I'm trying...
My, is this guy sharp and sees through things, I want to listen more to him. It is so soothing seeing someone explaining facts just as they are.
Sharp as a Ukrainian knife. Absolutely inspirational. Heroic intellect. There IS hope. Thank you. Please talk more. 🧠
thank you, this was interesting to watch.. two great guys!
Fascinating talk. Fresh angle on the issue.
Thank you very much for the interview, it was very interesting.
Wow! What an interesting conversation! Such an amazing insight on the part of Peter (sorry, can't remember how to spell his last name) . Thank you!
That was the best hour of intelligence I've seen in a long time. I'd start a mom and pop youtube cult with that guy any day of the week.🤩😍
Excellent insightful discussion, thank you.
Congratulations with your interviews. You deserve a far bigger subscriber base.
I'll keep mentioning your channel in other channels' comment threads.
Edit: typo's corrected.
Thank you, please continue you work!!
Great view! Funny how mister Pomerancev sounds as much british as he does russian)
A bit like me, I sound as much a un-cultured Aussie hick as a I do a Jugoslav - yes "Jugoslav", if you go back to my grandparents, there's Serbian/Montenegran on mother's side and Bosnian/Croatian on fathers side!
Wow, what insight. How can you not admire the way these two young men are able to communicate about the most complex issues. Psychological and political analysis in one breath? I love the way the interviewer faciltates the flow of the argument with his non-verbal gestures and perfectly timed and probing questions. Inspirational. Thankyou very much indeed.
...switching language so easily - wonderful!
It was great interview and особенно прекрасно для изучения языка! Огромное спасибо))
another great discussion! it does seem Russia lacks Enlightenment values, is really more Eurasian than European
True, and I believe that illustrates much of Ukraine's battle, because they were the source of what few enlightenment values existed in Russia.
@@kkpenney444😂
This guy is really good. Good choice of subject to interview too.
omg finally! theeeese are the works i need to read. propaganda has become my huge interest in the recent years. im going shopping. and im not gonna eat that well for a few days, because my finances are not that great atm. but whatever.
Thank you! What a discovery,! Excellent guests, excellent questions.
Important, critical journalism. Thank you.
You should also do this interview in Russian so the sheep back home understand their plight.
There is a version with Russian
At some point the mics you had in the room were out of phase. Pick one. If you leave all the mics open, you end up with something that's unlistenable
tough guy
seems there was a question in Mikhail's eyes while talking about the visa issues
something like: do you really think that it's ok to leave all of the democrats, who are not tortured by the police, meaning hasn't shown their position clearly enough for humanitarian visas, blocked in Russia? and do you really believe that they could beat an authoritarian military state?
i wonder what the answer might be
thanks for the interview and it's great you're doing it in English!
I think he answered this and asked back if EU should then just do nothing (because of these people) while Putin is breaking all contracts and leads a genocidal war?
I mean doing nothing is exactly what Putin expects of somebody weak, that he will not stop to humiliate. He clearly states that this changes everything for everybody and even simple things like visa, shengen treaty etc. are also gone and will need to be renegotiated.
Mikhail and all like him will have to face same like passive germans, but also like the ones that opposed the nazi regime, after WW2...just saying that they didnt agree with the dictator isnt enough. As we see in the past and the becoming of Putin, all this didnt happen at once and there had been democratic elections that put him there...fighting police/Omon now is just the end of this process.
Do You think ukrainian civilian s like fighting a russian tanc?
cry about it. pomerantsev answered your dumbass self victimizing question - take repsonsibility and stop prentending the genocidal war is not happening
Wyoming may not be the best example for your point, which is an interesting one. It might be even more interesting at a finer focus on specific agricultural communities as identifying with a “small r” republican ethos against a distant empire’s perceived or actual overreach.
I got the impression that the host wanted Peter to express pro-russian position (eg. to critic the "visaban for russians" policy) but mr. Pomerantsev was being a cool dude 😎
"A prejudice towards myself [as a person with a russian background]? Who from? I'm not sure what that would even mean.. But I do get put in a list of russofobs"
Ковток свіжого повітря у ці темні часи
О, классно!
As a Russian that grew up in the UK that Runglish intro was gold
Great interview!
Of course America is the gold standard for freedom.
The freedom to be stupid.
With Britain as a Lilliputian second.
There is a documentary by adam curtis called traumazone on youtube with hundreds of hours of footage from the soviet union taken by bbc reporters from the late 80s to early 00s, curtis edited the material and reduced it to more or less 10 hours. Mostly just the footage itself with some subtitles for context, and none or very little narration. For me it has been helpfull to understand the russian history in context to the WW1 a 2 and now the war in ukrania.
I mention this because listening to the interview i was reminded of this documentary, specially the idea of humilliation. I think its the first time i heard it put that way and definetly the documentary shows that ambiguity of the russian experience
Speaking of journalism and participation: Is there a possibility to read your columns in "Der Spiegel" in Russian?
Yes, use Google translate in Chrome.
Is there a transcript I can read?
If you’re on desktop, there’s usually the three dots for more and then you should see the “show transcript” option but it will use the auto-generated captions I think.
Speaking of visa policy, Peter has s good point about making it easier for Russians to escape political persecution. That is the thing no EU country has seriously addressed. It’s really hard to get out of the country now, especially for men. Millions of people are here in Russia who hate the regime and don’t want to die and kill for Putin, the world should help them.
Agree to disagree: maybe You should listen again the question he was asked and then to his answer! He said yes to visa for politically persecuted, but the question was more general about EU countries restricting visa to russians and if this is not somehow damaging the relationship to russians who are still protesting (or just fleeing, could be added). And here the answer was that Russia is pissing on all mutual contracts and wants to show that they can do it without Punishment, because they are oh so strong, so....yes this behaviour cant be tolerated and needs to be punished! All will change and he says everything, even small things like visa, needs to be renegotiated.
And he asks back if the EU should just do nothing and accept this behaviour from Putin that will interpret it as weakness?!
Was Germany pardoned from everything in WW2 just because there was a small part of its citizens fighting the nazis??? No!
All this men flee only when its their skin in the game, not before. They dont fight against annihilation of ukrainian life or fight for democracy and against Putin. Many of them tolerated what happens in Ukraina as long as they are not bothered with it! Why make it easy for people like that? Did somebody asked the ukrainian men if they want to fight?
Like he says: You need to loose first
@@micumatrix you nailed it!
War presents us all with tough choices. Europe is overrun with Ukrainian refugees. By far, the priority is in aiding them in addition to keeping them from having to interact with Russians. We cannot afford to let any steam out of Russia because ultimately your and our future possibility of peace lies only with the Russian people having enough.
There’s info regarding close connection between Orban and russian mob/fsb agent Mogilevich, it’s a serious factor for 🇭🇺
08:06 -- you forgot Poland!
I wonder your take on the Accusations Audit by Chris Voss, how it can help us not only understand Putin and Russia but also use it to influence him/them?
One of the most meaningful statements he made was The fall of USSR was the biggest geopolitical disaster of the 20th century. Putin was a mid ranked KGB agent at the time, working hard for the state. When the announcement of dissolution of the state happened it sounded like this was something that caught him by surprise and something he was not consulted on. It kinda sounds like it was a pivotal moment for him, a moment a deep rage set into him. He could have felt a deep sense of helplessness, like... come on guys... what the heck are you doing??? You idiots, what are you thinking??
Having this deep sense of patriotism and a sense of loss could have appealed to the leaders at the time. He’s going to rebuild the country.
It would have driven him to centralize control of Russia, both to support oligarchs and to keep them under his thumb.
And, once he reached the pinnacle of political power, to start reaching out to consolidate power over border countries like Belarus and Ukraine.
Tell me if I’m wrong but it looks like if the Maidan Revolution didn’t happen he would not have invaded Ukraine. It was at that time when Russia’s oligarchs freely did business with Ukrainian oligarchs but the Maidan was the time they pivoted to rule of law so business between the two countries in this way was substantially restricted. They could no longer pick up the phone and just ask for what they wanted, they had push back from bureaucrats, lawyers, the business leaders themselves in a way paying off a few politicians just didn’t overcome.
Understanding how Russians honestly think and feel can help us influence them in a way military action can’t.
This overwhelming mission Putin started on to rebuild Russia could be what forces him to stay in power. He can’t retire because the Great Mission is not yet accomplished. There is no one he can pass the baton to who he can trust will finish his mission while he steps back and enjoys a happy retirement hunting, fishing, horseback riding, occasionally cheering at memorials of Heroes of the Great War.
Chris Voss talks about the vast difference between empathy and sympathy. He pushes the idea so far that he refers to “tactical empathy.” Sun Tsu said we need to understand the enemy and ourselves. That’s tactical empathy.
The interviewer literally acted out "feeling humiliated/therefore, humiliating" -- the Russian psychology which the interviewee described. The interviewee said frank things about Russia and Russians, to which the Russian interviewer aggressively responded by asking if he was a Russophobe. Astonishing. I suspect a lot of this humiliation-fixation in Russian psychology stems from alcoholic fathers who beat their kids (see Gorky). Of course it could just be the stupid games of patriarchy, which neither men addressed.
When it comes to Putin or Russia, I completely agree. Including the statement that Putin lives in his own reality.
Unfortunately, when it comes to ivory towers (i.e. Western universities), they too live in their own reality.
I will not talk about Bolsonaro, Duterte, Modi or even Orban. I don't really know them enough, or understand their countries and their situation.
But when it comes to Trump, I find it ridiculous and obscene that he is made into equivalent of Mussolini or Putin. It offends my intelligence.
Trump has been made into Snowball and Emmanuel Goldstein of our time. The real person, good or bad (or both) is completely drowned by endless barrage of h..red.
How did Orwell put it:
"As usual, the face of Emmanuel Goldstein, the Enemy of the People, had flashed on to the screen. There were hisses here and there among the audience. The little sandy-haired woman gave a squeak of mingled fear and disgust. ...
"Before the Hate had proceeded for thirty seconds, uncontrollable exclamations of rage were breaking out from half the people in the room. ... [T]he sight or even the thought of Goldstein produced fear and anger automatically. … In its second minute the Hate rose to a frenzy. People were leaping up and down in their places and shouting at the tops of their voices in an effort to drown the maddening bleating voice that came from the screen. The little sandy-haired woman had turned bright pink, and her mouth was opening and shutting like that of a landed fish. Even O’Brien’s heavy face was flushed. He was sitting very straight in his chair, his powerful chest swelling and quivering as though he were standing up to the assault of a wave. The dark-haired girl behind Winston had begun crying out ‘Swine! Swine! Swine!’ and suddenly she picked up a heavy Newspeak dictionary and flung it at the screen. It struck Goldstein’s nose and bounced off; the voice continued inexorably. In a lucid moment Winston found that he was shouting with the others and kicking his heel violently against the rung of his chair. The horrible thing about the Two Minutes Hate was not that one was obliged to act a part, but, on the contrary, that it was impossible to avoid joining in. Within thirty seconds any pretense was always unnecessary. A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge-hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one’s will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic."
I have seen people react to Trump this way:
th-cam.com/video/wDYNVH0U3cs/w-d-xo.html
(Notice the double-portrait of Mussolini and Trump behind the woman.)
And then Orwell says,
"And yet the rage that one felt was an abstract, undirected emotion which could be switched from one object to another like the flame of a blowlamp."
Now it has been switched onto Trump.
And ivory towers are all about it.
Have you ever thought that that maybe rulers like Clinton, Obama, Biden, Trudeau, Blair, Brown, Cameron, Chirac, Sarcozy, Macron, Schroder, Merkel, Scholz, Draghi, Lula, Rousseff and others are not exactly angels? (Just look up Dilma Rousseff, for goodness sake!) That maybe there are some real reasons why people have voted for those you h..e? That you don't have to run to psychologists or psychiatrists to explain people's choices in democratic elections? Have you ever listened to people outside the university? Or even inside, such as College Republicans?
Whether the elected leaders have turned out good or not is another story. But shouldn't you at least give them some chance, rather then label them the moment you first hear their names? And shouldn't you at least acknowledge some difference between them, and a possibility that some might turn out to be good? That Trump is not responsible for what Duterte is doing?
You are so ridiculous. And you don't notice it. Because you are driven by h...red.
14:48 "When it comes to America, it's American imperialism that's [the] driver behind Trump."
What imperialism? Under Bush, the US invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. Under Obama it invaded Syria. Who did it invade under Trump? Are American people or Trump voters among them imperialists "Just because I say so?" Do you have any brains?
32:36 "I don't know why, but many people in Europe, as well as in America consider the media they watch on daily basis as propaganda."
Really? You really don't know why? Or are you just pretending?
To me, the colossal shock of realization of just how much I am being lied to came in 1997 and in 2001, during my two visits to Israel. When I went there, turned on a radio and heard something different form the regular barrage of "Palestinian -- good, Israeli -- bad" and similar inanities (and being there I saw with my own eyes that they were inanities), I felt like I have just escaped from National Socialism. And that was just the beginning. Maybe you should go to Israel and experience it.
But of course, one doesn't have to go to Israel. There is plenty of other media manipulation, lies and propaganda, on just about every subject. The only exception I know is the current war in Ukraine. It puzzles me to no end that the same CNN and BBC and the rest of them who lie like they breathe suddenly switch to good reporting when it comes to Ukraine. Actually report from the scene, put their lives in danger. I don't get it.
~a year later, how do you feel now?
@@Humannondancer , a lot more disappointed in Trump and his crowd. But that doesn't mean I like Democrats.
@@Kurtlane I take it you agree UKR needs help defeating Putin's aggression, but strange the Trump crowd in the House GOP are against further funding.
I would expect Putin probably likes that idea, and the chaos within the GOP in recent years.
Certainly, Trump comments about shooting looters on site, indicating Milley should have been shot, and doing away with the constitution (PP) should raise at least some concern for most people, don't you think?
@@Humannondancer , like I said, I am very disappointed in Trump.
But as I remember his 2016 campaign, he also said a whole load of silly things. (Such as, "We will go back to coal" or "We will close NATO.") Which is why I didn't vote for him.
But after he was elected, he did not follow any of these crazy things. In my view, hus presidency was a lot better than Obama's, even though Obama was much more sane in his speeches.
For example, Trump actually sent some weapons to Ukraine. Obama didn't, and Biden also didn't until Putin started the full-scale war.
So what we really have here is a very strange phenomenon of a candidate gaining popularity and being elected because he pretends to be crazy, but then, once elected, dropping the craziness and being quite good. Which means that the problem is not really in the candidate, but in the people.
Who knows which of the new set of craziness candidate Trump is laying out before the electorate he really means to do. Maybe none of it. Cat in the bag.
But the demonization of the other party, the other candidate (it doesn't have to be Trump) the Democrats have engaged in us a whole separate issue. And it's just plain evil. People at large are basically being taught to h..e, and then this h..red can be turned against anyone.
"The horrible thing about the Two Minute H..e was not that one was obliged to play a part, but that it was possible to avoid joining in. Within thirty seconds any pretense was always unnecessary. A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one's will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic. And yet the rage one felt was an abstract, undirected emotion which could be switched from one object to another like the flame of a blowlamp."
- George Orwell. 1984
I am from the Soviet Union, so this has special resonance for me. Things like that really happened under Lenin and Stalin.
A hundred years from now Trump will be basically forgotten. But the h..red will stay, and politicians will still use it to throw at anyone who dares stand in their way.
This is not the America I found in 1977, when I came to the US. This is more like what I ran away from.
@@Kurtlane Most agree after he was elected he had some good people advising him, and he made some progress in his deescalation efforts with N Korea despite his initial crass communications ala “little rocket man”- "my button is much bigger and more powerful than your button, and mine works".
Hardly the sort of thing a good diplomat would say (or Tweet) in public at any time.
The firings of most of those who disagreed with his methods later on in his admin, lead to the hiring of mostly "yes men and women" and unqualified family members in office. Again, hardly the tactic of a good statesman. Seems more authoritarian style to me, you know the things Orwell hated - fascism/totalitarianism.
I have to point out Orwell was a lifelong supporter of Democratic Socialism. So if those 2 words scare you, why are you quoting from '1984' all over the thread?
Strange you try to explain away Trump's craziness, before, in power and since. No mention of the other craziesness of the HOUSE GOP, either. I find that quite baffling. I'd imagine, who one listens to regularly might affect one's mindset and the inability to trust factual sources, with one noted exception?
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btw: I play Sting's 'Russians' every know and then to remind myself the Russian people were victims over time, and in the current through Putin too.
Also, my UKR neighbour here in the UK seems depressed most of the time.
Zygar falls short of what it takes to be a journalist. I'd rather listen to his guest's monologue with questions displayed on screen.
56:06
Russian history of being colonialist.
Здесь вопрос а насколько твой "ruler" твой? Интересная картинка учитывая, что Россия уже как сто лет британская криптоколония, чуваки moronство компрадорской элиты ставят в вину аборигенам?!
You guys sure look pretty satisfied with yourselves
in an aggressively pc gender and race obsessed world I have become very blokey very visibly heterosexual and very homespun. Like a british version of cooter the mechanic from the dukes of hazard.
I have actively had to try to remember my liberal leftist gender bending "new romantic" heritage, grim the days when I listened to the smiths , wore make up and actively rejected outward Masculinity.
Now I have slid the other way. I am trying to keep my nuance . But something about modern culture war culture is so tribal it's hard not to pick sides. I am trying not to.
borrowing
Obama was very authoritarian abandoning Ukraine and as queer he abandoned family. A very odd and dysfunctional understanding of US politics. He gets part of Trump correct, but not all.
That was very interesting. Thanks
Just more of the same. Western Media trollop.
Mikhail Zygar, you should work on your English -- its a bit embarrassing
His English is great!! Come on! You are being ridiculous. What would you want? Perfect British posh accent? Perfect Queen's English?
A lot of 'tell more about your father' platitudes. However, speaking of fathers: Igor Pomerantsev was a better poet than his son a propaganda specialist. ;)
"uniquenesses?!!!" You're educated?
Wait a second, Ukraine chose the war in 2014, they started it. Saying Russia chose to go to war in March 2022 is like saying the US chose to go to war on June 6, 1944.
Ukraine overthrew a puppet president. Then the Russians started to move in. This doesn’t mean Ukraine started it, means Ukraine wanted to be entirely free.
Yes, there is such a thing as truth and what you wrote is truthful. Ukraine has literally been supplying Russia with propaganda for their cause since day one of this conflict. Torturing and murdering POWs or suspected civilian collaborators on video with great delight, murdering civilians by shelling them on purpose, shooting at civilians, shooting at nuclear power plants(!), hiding their army amongst civilians, wearing nazi paraphernalia and singing songs to Stephan Bandera, erasing all heroes of the Soviet Union in their fight against nazism and in their stead uplifting the UIP leaders who murdered over 100 000 civilians during WWII to Heroes of the Nation, making all opposition illegal and murdering the opposition party’s members and kidnapping their leader for ransom against Russia, making it illegal to teach in the Russian language in Russian speaking cities, etc., etc., ad nauseam.
I don’t know of this Peter P. fellows allegiances (clearly not to truth) but John’s Hopkins University is notorious for their connection to Deep State Politics. I hope he is just deluded and not part of an organised propaganda effort. I find it extremely sinister that the US can commit a brazen coup, place actual documented nazis in positions of power and turn Ukraine into an anti-Russia project without any pushback from Western academics.
If Ukraine chose the war what did Russia choose then? Please provide me with a relevant synonym for the occupation and invasion Russia started back in 2014. Hybrid war being just one of them.
@@IrinaZhygalyk Could you define which occupation and invasion Russia “started” in 2014?
@@tobias9859 I can. Occupation of Crimea and Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine. It has long been proven and Russia does not hide the fact that it was her troops who captured this territory. Here we can add the persecution of the Crimean Tatars. There is plenty of evidence that this was not a civil conflict.
Russia even now does not hide what they want to get from the territories that they have already captured and that they want to capture the whole of Ukraine.
Ukraine did not start a war either in 2014 or in 2022.
This sly nose will fight to the last drop of everyone else's blood.