The problem with Tone X...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.พ. 2023
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ToneX chat is all over the internet and I'm hearing lots of opinions on the ToneX. Some of these problems I understand but a couple of them just don't make sense.
Largely a good point re: preamp/poweramp. Technically, what you are getting at is linearity vs. nonlinearity. Convolution (the operation that uses IRs) is a linear operation. A power amp stage is linear when it's not distorting (including sagging, etc.-any nonlinear behavior). A speaker is (mostly) linear before breakup. So an IR captures only the linear part of the behavior of the power amp and speaker.
If an effects loop is only before the IR, the linearity of convolution means the net result of putting other linear effects (such as clean delays or reverb) before or after the IR is the same.
That said, devices like the Helix/HX family let you put the effects loop anywhere. If you would like it to be be before any nonlinear component of your signal path (that includes not just amps and distortion, but also compression), then you'll be missing something with the ToneX. I'm not arguing it's a fatal flaw; it wouldn't be a significant limitation for me. Also, people may not appreciate how nontrivial it is to add an effects loop to a digital device. For an analog device, you're mostly just cutting the signal path and adding connectors (and maybe a simple buffer). With a digital device, you have to add, not only algorithmic complexity, but also an extra digital output and input from the DSP chip, and an A/D and D/A converter. That adds significant expense. With that in mind, the ToneX seems like a reasonable compromise and solid value. -Tom
The problem is there is no problem. Good to know this aligns with my thinking. I think having the effects after the complete amp and speaker was preferred since thats what happens in a studio.
What about none studio players who like the tones of a power tube affecting delays, reverbs and modulations? Post processing is one way, it’s not the only way.
@@DavidMorisset can you use the built-in compressor to try and simulate some of that power amp character?
@@DavidMorisset Adding an effects loop to this pedal wouldn't solve that. An effects loop would only put that effect between the amp model and the cab IR. If you want to put effects between the pre and power amp, use an amp or modeler. Not even sure if you use a modeler if the effects loop puts things between the modeled pre and modeled power amp. Would think it would just put it between the model and cab it IR.
@@DavidMorisset then you should buy two units and run everything stereo in front ✌🏻
@@florentchatelain3057 you don’t get my point. I don’t use an effects loop on any of my amps. From my guitar to the board through the front of a clean amp, that’s how I play. I do have an ACS1 on one board, a Cab M+ on a second board and an HX Stomp just in case I’m playing without an amp. But I’m not using those devices as a gain stage. For me the ToneX would be a gate to using captured amp tones before my delays, reverbs and modulations. But without an effects loop, the headphone jack and interface are useless. I use pedals for my gain stages and would love to build a board around the ToneX but I”ll wait for one with what I want on it. Take care.
People want an effects loop in this case to place effects post amp and still utilize the usb interface and headphone output. I don’t think people are that hung up on placing effects in between the amp and IR, or the preamp and power amp as you are arguing. It is about utilizing the other hardware features in the unit
Always appreciate the in depth review and knowledge HW! Great video! Looks like this could definitely be what I'm looking for to add to my pedal board. Thanks again!
I gotta be honest - when the UA pedals came out, I was ticked about two things: no effects loop and no balanced output. It wasn't until later that something occurred to me: Do I want my reverbs/delays/etc to be eq'd by the cab? Do I want the top-end of my shimmery, twinkly effects cut off by a model of a 12" speaker? Then it dawned on me that it's actually a good thing that it used instrument-level outputs so that you can easily run more pedals after the amp pedal.
The stuff about the origins of effects loops is something I've not heard before. I guess it's one of those things where people say "do it this way" and everybody assumes it's right because everybody does it.
My $0.02...
They could have added a loop, there is room for one and it’s a missed feature. They could have added an 1/8” headphone jack on the front/side like iridium. Since it has midi the external control input isn’t necessary and could have been swapped for a stereo TRS out loop and the headphone jack could be used for the a input trs loop. The only add then is the 1/8” jack, which could go anywhere. If they really wanted the software or switch could swap the trs loops for ext control options instead, as not every use case needs a loop.
While I agree running your delay/reverb after the pedal will sound great probably better even, but it limits the functionality and features they already built in the pedal. I realize this is not meant to be an all-in-one solution.
A loop would allow one to run your post amp effects before the ir and/or more importantly before the onboard reverb. Possibly the option to run stomps after the internal comp(if set to pre) before the amp. It would just allow flexibility to utilize the onboard effects they added.
It’s very unlikely someone would actually use the built-in reverb if running running a delay after, so the onboard reverb becomes somewhat of a wasted feature.
No loop means you can’t run this in a 4-cable method to seamlessly add a channel to your tube amp that has a loop. For instance, competition for the TONEX such as the UAFx pedals and others can do this out of the box.
It’s nice tonex has an interface built in, But it might not be as useful as advertised. If it had a loop then your entire chain could feed the computer/daw. If you have effects pedals after the Tonex as it is w/o the loop, you’d need a separate interface to send your full chain to the daw, so the interface feature becomes less useful, as you can’t record your outboard reverb/delay without buying another interface.
Also balanced trs outs would be welcome to go to direct FOH and soft switches would have been a welcome addition.
Not deal breakers for me. It seems there is room for these features if they use trs jacks and opt for a small 1/8” headphone jack. The loop adds functionality with inboard and outboard gear and usability of the interface. Perhaps a v2 someday.
If you own another modeler just run the tonex in the fx loop and use it as your amp and cab block. It will function identically to the amp and cab block in your modeler allowing you to run pedals into the front of the amp. If you have to have loop fx after your amp but before your speaker just load the IRS with your modeler. You may have to adjust some volume parameters but it works just fine. I run a headrush gigboard with an Pod go in the fx loop giving me a lot more flexibility.
Definitely agree that the FX loop is not needed. Most people are running SoundToys and Eventide Effects in their DAW after the mic'd up signal from a cab (or IR) anyway on actual pro-level productions nowadays.
The Quad Cortex allows you to put effects between the preamp and the power amp if you wish to do that. Neural already included factory captures of some preamps and power amp separately and it allows for a mix and match of power amp and preamp and also to put your time based effects between them. The time based effects used after the amp/speakers gives a more "studio" kind of sound. The Tone X is certainly not perfect, but it is still a good solution for the pedals aficionados that absolutely wants to use their pedalboard without the hassle of carrying an heavy amp. It offers flexibility and portability.
👍
So much this. I use a CAB M+ as a pure clean pedal platform. It does a great job of emulating Pre/power amp and even better job with the IR, I use my pedals for the overdrive. I have a 'amp in the box' style pedal I use as my final gain stage and then 2 or 3 other drives in front of that to push that pedal into overdrive. I then put all my time based effects after that, but before the CAB M+ and it works a treat. I don't get any complaints on the tone.
Thanks for making this video and pointing out the «problem» with the pedal not having an FX-loop. I had this discussion in the comments of another video, where I pointed out that you don’t need an FX-loop if you’re going to use a real cab, because you can still put the time-based effects between the preamp (the ToneX) and whatever poweramp you choose to amplify your signal. You could also use a different device to load IR’s if you’re not going to use a real cab but you want the effects between the amp and «speaker», although that seems a bit unnecessarily complicated. I have an HX Stomp, and I plan to use the ToneX (when I get it) as my preamp, the Stomp as my «FX-loop», and experiment with wether it sounds better with the IR loaded by the ToneX (before FX) or the Stomp (after FX).
Any update on this???
@@Minty.Fresh.Tunes. Nope. Got hit hard in the financials, so the Tonex has been put on hold, unfortunately.
I have a Pod:GO and ToneX is on the way.. ill let you know if there's a big difference in the IR's
@@IKilledTheDodo
I have been saying this since the first video came out on the TONEX. This 100% aligns with what I have also been saying. Think of the tonex as a preamp. The effects loop is between the preamp and the power amp. There is no difference with placing the time based after the pedal and the dirt in front, as there is with the way an effects loop works on the amp. The ONLY reason you may want to do this is if you NEED to put a effect or delay in front of the built-in reverb...which no one should want to do. Love your videos. Keep it up...subbed.
Yes. But there is also the cab question. Does it matter to put time base effects after the ToneX simulated cab. The situation could be if you put time base effects after ToneX.
for any player don't need too many effects and functions, this pedal is just perfect
Agreed, however I think the oversight was not a traditional effects loop, but an in/out for post IR effects so that you can still use the Headphone out on the unit itself, but that is minor as I've used Reverb and Delay into the front of an amp for years, it is just nice to have the option to run it post amp when you are dealing with something that is so dynamically responsive to your playing. The bigger deal for the "all in one" style is inability to add the stomp separately. The setup you suggest is how I'd run mine (IF I'm not using external drives), the only challenge there is if we are using captures someone else created or "stock" profiles. So far the user base on the whole isn't uploading a Clean, Clean plus KOT, Clean Plus two sides of KOT, etc) with the exact same settings as I'd do in the real world. Allowing us to mix and match like you can do in Amplitube would have opened up a whole different world. This doesn't bother me as someone with plenty of boutique dirt boxes, but I recognize this is a limitation for some who want to run this by itself and don't have the capture abilities (or ideal amp/effects) they would want to use. Even though I've done a few dozen captures, the reality is my favorite patches thus far are still an amp someone else captured.
Very interesting. FX loops in the 90s often were used to build complex setups. I have an Engl that sounds great on its own, but in the 90s I also had a Marshall JMP-1 that I used in a rather complex setup with the Engls fx loop so that I could use the Marshall and the Engl preramp. It was a real pain to set up, but it worked, even with MIDI. The fx loop was used for all these things, but rarely to just use fx.
I have been putting the tonex pedal in the loop of my helix, and it sounds absolutely amazing. And the feel is there. I love the helix, but as you said, even the TM stuff misses the feel. I used to have a kemper, and personally I think that this pedal actually takes OD better than the Kemper by a little bit. I am also someone who prefers post cab fx anyway, as a sounds tech, the clarity is hard to beat no matter what your amp sim is.
Rock on!
I’m curious… would it be possible to do a wet-dry-wet setup if the stereo Helix output is the stereo wet and then use the headphone output of the ToneX (which in your situation would be before the wet Helix effects) as the dry output? I just bought a ToneX and HX Effects and I am planning to try this myself (by using the ToneX in the effects loop).
Exactly what I’m looking to do…incorporate ToneX with my Helix. Mind sharing how you currently have yours set up?
@@geoffreyfifield5802 On the full helix that's not even necessary, you could just split the outputs post Tone-x effects loop, and use one of the other sends, before sending the mono tone-x amp model to the next signal path for stereo fx processing.
@@clintyoung9902 Sure! (also just used it live this weekend, and it was great). I have my guitar input going through compressor/vb2/octave/overdrivestack/DMM (if I want to overdrive the delay repeats) -> tonex pedal -> eq adjustment/gain boost for leads -> lots and lots of stereo delays and reverbs -> FOH stereo through the XLRs.
HW, that was a very good analysis of why the ToneX Pedal is designed the way it is. Combining it with the HX Stomp also seems like a natural pairing.
It sounded like if it was necessary to insert some effects between the Preamp and the Amp, it could be done on the HX Stomp, since it includes separate Preamp Blocks and a Send and Return. I've never used those before, but I guess that could be a thing. 🤔
This is an excellent video. You've captured exactly one of the things I've been commenting for years: that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to place a FRFR shimmering reverb or delay IN FRONT OF an amp, as on a pedalboard. Most of these devices output stereo effects, and a typical guitar amp simply cannot capture their sparkle and shimmer. It needs to be placed AFTER the amp (or at least after the preamp) and then routed to a FRFR system - FOH or recording device. I use such devices between my Axe-FX and my stereo pair of Atomic Reactor powered cabs.
Good video. I always add delay, reverb after speakers in DAW....however I record guitar..with amp or whatever. So I agree with you totally adding those effects after stereo outs om Tonex seems about perfect to me!
For your 3 worship tone setups starting at 10:23 in the video (which sound great!), what other pedals are you using and are they before or after the ToneX? Also is this setup used as direct into FOH? If so, is it through a direct box?
My thing is dual amps for input, but you said something that hit home, “choices are great”! I like this. My QC is giving me everything I need atm, but this tonex is very tempting!
Maybe someone has mentioned this already but, I think the main use of the fx loop in the helix is that you can place that loop anywhere in the chain and split off your output to include or not include those effects.
That's how I would use it anyway. Because like you said, it's more similar to a studio setup to run wet effects after the Amp sim pedal anyway.
Exactly. No loop is a deal breaker.
I have been trying to decide whether to possibly get one of the tonex pedals or an iridium. Winning one would be tremendous. This looks really cool and would fit my rig nicely since I currently run everything into the front of my black star dual drive for direct or headphones.
The effects loop argument is interesting and it is absolutely true that on a real amp, the effects loop inserts the signal just before the power amp. Maybe the confusion comes from the fact that people see the IRs as "cabinet simulators" (and call it that or just CAB SIM); in the real world, the speaker cabinet is connected to the output of the power amp (not so with IRs!). So strictly speaking, IRs should not be called "cab sims"... They are just specialized EQs normally placed somewhere after the preamp (before the power amp) to emulate the characteristics of a speaker cabinet. Also, people are used to see modelers offering one or more effects loops (e.g. Helix, Fractal AX8, Boss GT-1000, etc.), even though these modelers do not (normally) have a power amp. For example, in the Line 6 Pod Go, it is possible to place the effects loop anywhere in the chain, including before the IR. However, it is clear the ToneX pedal is NOT a multi-effect processor.
Awesome tone and playing! I'm looking into getting this unit and I plan to run time based effects after the Tonex and go stereo out. Would you say that would give me a good stereo sound? particularly on verb and delay?
You make good points about Tone and about how to use the pedal as IK imagined it. And iy is a very usable unit, regardless of the signal chain thing ... BUT ... for me, it comes down to how reverb and delay interact. I want to reverb my delay, not delay my reverb. Once you hear it ... If I can't insert a delay before my reverb, then I would turn off the Tonex reverb and use another stomp that would give me the reverb where I wanted it. Not having an effects loop is not a deal breaker, but it makes me not even consider the built in reverb. Would be nice to have an "always on" ambience. That is why I think it was a little short sighted, but certainly not a deal breaker.
As far as a second Tonex pedal, the other option is using your phone or tablet with one of those spiffy $119 IK iRig interfaces instead of putting out another $400 ...
Loving the TONEX pedal! I just hope IK Multimedia does as good as job as Line 6 has done in updating and adding value to the Helix line via new releases (new amps, new effects, new features, bug fixes, etc). They continue to invest in Helix rather than moving on to another product and abandoning the lineup. Again, let's hope IK Multimedia follows that success model by growing and improving TONEX via updates.
Maybe new features and fix bugs but new amps? Users already uploaded so much since release 😅
My understanding is all the Amps in Amplitude 5 can be stored on the Tone X. Is that not true? I am just trying to figure out if this is the case before I bite.
Excellent video and remarks! Thanks for putting it out there! In a moment of hearing the Tonex sounds and the advice of Tim Pierce, I bought one, but when I got it spent 1/2 hour trying to locate the tuner (which does not exist)! 😆 Anyway, I love the sounds it has, but your video explains what I need to do to make it work in a Worship service! Very helpful! I do wish they would have included an effects loop!
Good point about the usual "post" effects mimicking studio effects. I'm looking into this and the loop was a concern until I thought about it. How much difference does it really make if the delay or reverb is before or after IR (EQ)?
I was also considering what you mentioned about separating these units as preamp and power amp. It could be done with this tech if you ran two. But, is there a benefit? Probably not. It's much simpler to profile the pre and power amps as a unit and just run time effects after the IR.
Just want to point out that the Kemper has a monitor out in which you can turn the cab off. But the post cab effects are still on. So you sort of have an effects loop between the amp and cab. BTW I find this invaluable for monitoring with a real guitar cab on stage and still send a stereo pair to FOH.
Great review. I’m also a worship guitarist and been frustrated with the various modelers and pedals I’ve tried. I want a small rig that covers the bases well. This looks like it would be great. Thanks! Joe
Great video man! Awesome tones too. I’m a Stomp player myself and would love to add this to my arsenal.
You’re right, DUH! I was thinking “no effects loop” but a loop just does the same thing as coming out of the Tonex (preamp) before the power amp. Soooo no problemo. Thanks for the video. Great information keep up the good work.
Thank God someone finally said it. I had this experience with my revivaldrive hotrod(used an amp) and my two notes CAB with IR's. I when I change the position of the modulation effects, it made no difference. My FRFR speakers are the "power" amp, so they are at the end of the chain anyhow, so it made no difference. Sounded great both ways with no semblance of an effects loop.
I'm building a pedalboard based on the tonex. My question is, I'm coming out of the tonex in stereo to a plethora x5 but I usually have a volume pedal after my drives and or preamp. I can come out of the tonex in mono to the volume pedal but, Would I be missing out on anything? or is the stereo output just for the on board reverb? Thanks
I agree with the limitations but also love that using a small board with something like a Quilter Superblock UK, I can still have a 1X12 on stage if it allowed. Then I get speaker response and real feedback. The latency isn’t an issue really.
I have mine on a board with all of the drives/compression in front, time based/eq pedals after, and all of it goes into a Powerstage 200. Its a perfect setup for me. Works exactly as an amps effect loop.
I 'm waiting for mine...
i will use it for just bass amps (preamps) and different distortion and overdrive pedals,
i think thats a good solution "tired of turning the settings on stage" this seems to me to be a high-quality compact solution that remains affordable!
Thanks for the vid. I am new to your channel and this tech. I have a EHX Sovtek. Could use this with an amp and cab sim into my amp to effectively change the characteristics to sound like other (say high gain) amps and cabs?
Will this pedal allow me to capture my amp for blues and then roll off my guitar volume for fine gain adjustment, or does the amp need to be captured several times? I don't want to be having to push the pedal for different gain levels (clean/mild overdrive/crunch).
I’m sure it’s a great bit of kit. Regarding the fx loop thing though. On a HX Stomp, placing time and modulation effects before or after the cab model makes a HUGE difference. And that’s with my worn out old ears.
This cannot be true, except for some wonky non linear effects, can you share which effect you are talking about?
As a fellow JMI 60s AC/30 owner, I value your channel. I would love to see a video of your '66 and ToneX -- side-by-side for each channel showing settings as you play. Clean-to-Distorted. If you've already done the video, please share the link. Again, fantastic channel! Thank you.
It’s a good point you make, about how an efx loop works.
preamp/ efx loop/ power amp speaker. Now I have to go put my cab m pedal into my helix and try this idea out to see if I can hear the difference in stacking the preamp efx and power amp.
The Ampero II actually allows you to place the FX loop between a preamp and power amp. But like you're saying, very few people do that unless they're really seeking "authenticity."
My issue with the ToneX is the lack of stereo inputs.
I was hoping I might be able to replace my HX stomp to run W/D/W with a Jet Red Sea with delay in front of amp.
The lack of stereo inputs makes this not viable.
I also really like being able to run dual amps with the stomp.
To accomplish either of these I would need dual ToneX pedals
I am really hoping they come out with a deluxe version that allows dual amps and has stereo inputs
A "deluxe version" is probably going to cost the same as two of these, so just buy two of these!! If you were running REAL tube amps, you'd need TWO to run stereo. Or just stick with the Stomp. Or, even better, go practice and get good enough for IK to offer a otfan522botjournalismisdea2 signature version... 🤦♂
@@garystackhouse5787 I would be ok paying more for a deluxe version… and I did eventually get a second unit.
I would still much prefer a single unit. 🤷♂
The 2 only use I could see for an fx loop is to monitor the whole signal chain with headphones plugged in the pedal, or use the internal reverb after an external delay, chorus, etc. Not sure it's worth engineering an extra AD/DA conversion, physical jacks and software tweeks to make that happen... In fact I'm sure, it's not worth it ahah! And I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually come up with a "XL" version, they also have a serie of FX pedal, they could put all of this into one if they want...
Excellent video! Certainly helps with those “choices”. I hadn’t watched one of your videos until now. Your explanation and depth of knowledge is impressive. Certainly a subscriber now! Thank you
HI, the first thing I noticed when you first reviewed the ToneX was the lack of effects loop. I don't know how much it is important if you use it direct to a computer audio interface, or if it makes much difference when going to a cab. I am used to have effects loop in my amp and always worked with it. So now that I am recording my stuff to computer I bought a pedal that have an effect loop and could easily allow me to switch between amp and computer. The Carl Martin Ampster. Maybe it just makes me comfortable psychologically. I know that they may not be comparable but the first thing I thought was that I would never go without effects loop. and I find it strange Tone X and if I am not wrong even Kemper don't have effects loop.
I've been loving mine so far.... the only decision needed to be made is how I want to output it in the room. Sounds good so far with a powercab!
To me the issue sits more in how Tonex responds to pedals in the front. I never use an effects loop in any of my amps, hence would also put my delays and modulation before the Tonex. However, the Tonex seems to react different on my delays and modulation as my real amps or even Quad Cortex would do. With the same settings the repeats for instance are way louder.
My Kemper is non-powered, and my time-based effects sit between it and the ENGL Poweramp 810. Honestly, I miss nothing. And I play live and in the studio for +35 years.
For me the biggest draw back is lack of pre-IR pass-through output (send IR sound to PA and direct out to stage amp for monitoring and live feedback). If I have super-amp-modeler with custom IR capacity, on live performance I want to run it to PA. What remains unsolved is stage monitoring - I either need to get another unit, run 2 chains controlled by MIDI or I need my own active monitor speaker. So far I found no scenario in which I could simply put this on my pedal board and go to live gig, without depending on the bunch of other equipment.
This is my issue too. I'd like to see a modeling pedal/box that has an output for onstage amps that bypass the amp/cab sim, plus balanced outs that include the amp/cab sim to go mono or stereo direct to the board. This way the player could do one method or both depending on the situation.
How should I use the delay pedal with it for simple metal solos? Before or after tonex pedal? I have mxr carbon copy deluxe. many says after pedal. and how do you think it will sound ok . I mean if preset consitst reverb its not correctly to hit delay after
Well done. And nice solo! Also, it would be nice to see somebody give a review of the TONE X while actually using it in a LIVE on-stage demonstration through a club's PA.
I will be using mine with a GT1000 core anyway. So I will just have the ToneX in one of the loops on the GT1000, and the GT1000 will be in the effects loop of my power amp. So I can control where it will go in the chain with the rest of my pedalboard anyway.
also the new axe fx 3 firmware i think simulates breakup or can simulate compression on the IR section the breakup more on the amp block
I completely agree, no need or desire for an effects loop.
I am a new subscriber... Like within the last several months or so. Regarding the IRs TJ made with the amp+KoT or amp+808, is it possible to use these in the Helix? My apologies if this is something that has already been discussed.
Hey dude, these are capture files so they are a different format than IRs. Just the free 66 ac30 pack I did for helix has a KOT and 808 on the preset along with a 66 AC30 tonematched Ir. That should be pretty similar.
Different technology. These captures are not IRs and are specific to ToneX. Now regular speaker IRs can be used in Tonex
@@ToneJunkieTV I see! Thanks for the info!
I've never had a device so clearly sound great in all of its many TH-cam demos, paid or not. There was always something in demos of any device of this type where it didn't sound exactly right, but this one just nails it. I have all of its competitors and I'm getting one anyways.
I thought the same thing until mine arrived 5 days ago and very disappointed it doesn't sound that good with a few exception presets. Also this guy doing this vid is dead wrong Ive tried the Tone X multiple ways with a delay pedal and with an FM3 and they work but very so so I didnt like it at all. Its very different and clearly different compared to going into an FX loop I dont need anyone to tell me anything different my ears dont lie.
@@BkBk-gy6vr That's a bummer, but I've noticed that chasing tone over time using other people's patches is a question of input volume. They all use classic guitars with low pickup output, like Strats and old Les Pauls. If you have something a little hotter, it'll sound totally different. I'm hoping that my low-output 5909 and 5708s will sound like the people on TH-cam playing through these patches. Good news is I can send it back if it sucks.
Okay thanks you this is literally what I was thinking. I use my axe fx 3 with all time based fx after the amp. the only stuff i do before would be a wah and maybe some trem but even them amps that have trem inputs are all after everything
Agree with most of the points but think you’ve misunderstood the point of an fx loop on these devices…
I’m 99% sure that no one really cares about whether the effects are between the pre and power amps or after them before the cab or even after the cab. I think most people want an fx loop so that they can have a distorted driven amp with time based effects after the drive and then be able to use either the headphones or even the usb interface. Not everyone has the luxury of an FRFR after or going to FOH. Those home players that want to play away from their computer or those that want to use effects not on a plug-in when recording to free up processing power in a daw would want this.
Just thought I’d say - I do like your captures btw 😊
You explained my situation just perfekt!
@@hannesganahl6384 I’ve heard this since when the iridium came out so as someone who has to use headphones as I don’t want to wake my kids up at night I thought I’d say. Obviously it’s fine if you’re going into a mixer or a di box at a gig but there’s a lot of people in different scenarios 😊
Couldn’t you get a DI box or audio interface to plug headphones into? That’d allow you to go guitar=>drives=>tonex=> time fx=>DI/interface=> headphones
@@b_m3998a response to my post a year ago 😊
Yes they would both be options 👍 I think the point I was making at the time was that this was the reason why people were complaining about not having an fx loop as they would get their time based effects muddied up if using a distorted amp. Boss made this possible on their IR-2 recently so odd it wasn’t an option.
I put the Tonex in the loop of my HX stomp to get round it just as an fyi 👍
No effects loop may not be a problem, but it is preferred by those of us who want to add a permanent effect from one of our pedals after the cab sim and before the interface. I'd like to use the USB audio capabilities of the Tonex but can't if I want to insert my own hardware effects, so I have to feed the Tonex line outputs into another interface. It's no biggie, but it's still something that could - should IMNSHO - have been included. The Tonex is a terrific bit of kit. I'm sticking with the Walrus ACS1 for now as I appreciate it's simplicity and the way it takes pedals.
Thank you, I'm new to modeling amps and this video was very educational.
Helix does have an effects loop (even the stomp). Everyone wants an effects loop because time based effects are best there. In addition, if you have a mono time based effect (ie., nice spring reverb that the Tonex doesn't do well) but want a stereo amp setup, an effects loop is a must. The other scenario is using it with headphones at night. Most delay and reverb pedals don't have HP outs so the idea that you can just put them after the tonex in the sign chain will not work well. In addition, if you are using the Tonex as an audio interface for recording, the reverbs and delays would need to be forced in front of the pedal unless you use additional VSTs with a recording app.
Idk if you will see this but im really having trouble setting this thing up tgrough my scarlett 212. I tried running the mono Left out from the back of the pedal to input 1 on my scarlett interface and it doesn’t seem to work. Do i need to run both left and right out to input 1 and 2 on my interface? Also when and if that works does it need to be in live or interface mode?
I always just figured a real amp needs an fx loop cause you can’t plug a cable into a speaker…not really needed in an amp only pedal. Now things like helix, HX stomp, axe fx and Kemper’s need one cause they are multi fx units and have complex routing capabilities. I think people have just gotten used to that form factor and feel they are losing something they actually are not.
Thanks for the honest review! I am awaiting delivery on mine.
I totally agree with you, I would consider the unit as an amp in the helix and still put effects after the unit
Not sure If anyone else brought this up regarding the effects loop. I don't think it's that they want to put it "preamp/power amp". I think it's more to do with having a headphone out. If someone runs a high gain tone and plugs the delay in front , probably not ideal. If someone runs the delay after the pedal , it's not going to be in the headphones. If the effects after don't have a headphone out, now they need to buy/add an additional thing to use it.
The way you use it is not affected by this, many people probably won't be. But, there is probably a large segment that this would be an issue.
I also understand IK not adding it because if you buy the IK delay and reverb pedals they have headphone outs and can sim, like apple you build for your ecosystem.
Just a thought.
Line 6 introduced spillover awhile back - never needed it, still don’t. This looks like a nice piece of gear and should my 7yr old Helix ever die, I will be looking at it. Thanks for all you do for us. Subscribed!
Yesterday I was recording a DSL20H head, then I realized that the Delay (DM2W) was after the IR loader pedal. Amazing sound.
Same thing for ToneX, just put some pedals after it and it will sound great.
The only problem i see with this device is that you can’t send a split signal out, one with the cab to FOH and one without the cab to a powerstage and cab on stage, when there’s room available to do that with a stereo out.
Probably could be implemented in the future with a software update, right?
Great video as always.
Best from Barcelona!
My thought with this is use it with my existing helix, use direct captures, split the signal, run one to foh with an IR and the other feed to an onstage setup. It does seem like there is room for improvement with this unit but if you combine it with other existing systems you can get there.
I can't really argue with how this thing sounds, the captures are really above what a modeler can recreate. The low end response clarity is where I hear a lot of the difference. There's something there that the helix just doesn't do
@@dustinscott5628 a ToneX an HX Stomp look like can do anything.
I like the preamp use on my helix with my Powercab 212 plus, I hear a noticeable difference from using an amp, btw great video 🤟🏽
the problem with kemper: it lacks presence so it doesn't cut through the mix on live gigs, i see some of my favorite guitar players playing live and i hear nothing, like air guitar. especially in the solos, the money time where the mix is dense .so if you are a decoration in the gig get a kemper, if you make mistakes don't worry, no one hears you. on the other hand i have to admit that
1. it sounds great for clean tones by itself. it's convenient ,i won't mention the horrible overly compressed excuse of a distortion because it's a matter of taste.
2.it saves time at the soundcheck, both the guitar player and the sound guy don't waste any time, you won't be asked to turn it down like when using an amp, other bandmates never complain, it's like youre not even there.
3.i work as a backliner for too many years now ,saw hundreds of gigs with the same guitar players on amps and modelers ,i used to hate modelers now i love them! i get more free time! i'm too old to carry 2x12 combos every day, and only the ones that really care about their tone deserve my upgraded amps where i put my heart and soul, i have amps you won't find on any store or on any backline rig on planet earth. if i screw up with my crazy mods i have to answer to professionals, if they wouldnt like it they would rent gear elsewhere and i wouldnt have a job.
4.you didn't invent the damn thing you probably do your best to make it more usable for people ,just try to gig with it and ask someone in the audience. tube junkie
I get what your saying about not having the FX loop. Not the same but I use a KSR Ceres preamp into a Duncan Powerstage Poweramp and wish it had a loop. Of course I run my reverb and delay between the KSR and Poweramp but I have yet to figure out how to run my Gup Tech noise gate in 4 cable method. Of course, the Tonex probably has built in gate so no need for a loop there.
I'm curious, are people mainly plugging this into the front of a clean amp, the FX return, or their interfaces?
I have been using amplitube 5, for my studio, I want to use the self created rig set up I created in Amplitube 5 and be able to call that up on the ToneX stomp box/floor amp for my live application. Is this possible? Do I have to run Amplitube 5 on a laptop, or can I download it on to the Tonex stomp box? How is the actual amp, will it drive a speaker cab? Or do i need a amplifier to do so? (for shows and practice, still running line outs to the front of house).
Brilliant!! 1) agree on every point 2) your playing is excellent 3) I now believe I need a Suhr JM
My understanding is that the unit comes with a built in reverb. Great. But if you want a post gain delay with reverb after that, you can't achieve that without having a separate reverb pedal. Is that right?
Exactly - I want my Delay before the Reverb, so using the onboard Reverb in the ToneX is not an viable option.
You truly understand the equipment you use. Your knowledge of how everything works is super helpful and you’re very good at predicting counter arguments to your points. Your tones sounded great. We’re definitely at a time where there are so many good options for gear and at reasonable prices too! I subscribed and look forward to the rabbit trail of video watching that will result. God bless!
I never got the complaint about the fx loop. Me being a studio guy, I run my effects in aux tracks in parallel, added to the dry recorded tracks. Indeed, as you mention, fx loops were introduced to get neat delays and reverbs post PREAMP in a real amp so they don't muddy up if you want them pristine clean. And even if you go those between pre and power amp, the sound of those will be affected by whatever power amp color is providing, plus they don't get even so a guitar speaker isn't hifi, their frequency range is actually pretty limited. So what would you want to squish those beautiful effects into a lower fidelity sound when you can add them post cab and get the full range of the effects. Shape your amp sound all you want, use the post amp EQ to really shape it before it goes out and then throw full range effects after it. That is what you want, not an fx loop in a digital unit. The concept of having that is just ridiculous. just plug your chorus, delay and reverb after it and it will work better for those pristine clean studio effects. Indeed, as you run them, in front is also the option for coloring and giving the fx character hitting the front of the amp and that is cool too. Not very useful if you're like me running 5150/ Boogie Mark IV type sounds but yes, for cleaner or on edge of breakup sounds, it's also it's own vibe... again, just plug them in front, you don't need an fx loop for that.
Hi. Good video and an important one too! I hope I understood you. I think you're saying: effects loop make sense between preamp and poweramp, which makes sense in a multi-effect units. However, TONEX isn't a multi-effect unit, it is a digital amp providing a flexible unlimited library of digital amps. These digital amps include both the preamp + poweramp and since no way to break in between them then it makes no sense to include the effects loop on this unit, similar to the other products you mentioned. Did I get your point correctly ? Thank you !!
Maybe this was mentioned already, I feel they missed an opportunity with not having balanced outs. This way you can decide to go to an amp (unbalanced), or balanced to a sound card or front of house/mixing console. 10 year old Atomic Amps have this feature.
and HeadRush
I really do agree with the overall gist of this vid. For me, what I want are decent JCM800 and Plexi captures. I tried the free ToneX demo and found them in like 15 mins of demo'ing stuff. That sold on me on the ToneX right then and there. So I then made the decision to buy one b/c it did exactly what I wanted for noticeably less than the Axe Fx III.
The Walrus ACS-1 rocks two seperate amps in stereo... with 3 cabs choices on each, has a headphone out and MIDI.
I like how there's no FX loop. Keeps the pedal small & cheaper. For a really basic gig, no pedalboard is even required with the Tonex. If this is going on my pedalboard, I wouldn't use the built in reverb anyway. Good job on your reviews sir, I ordered 2 of them. lol
The only real problem is that we have to wait for all those great 3rd party profiles from the likes of ToneJunkie. Would love to have a capture of the ‘63 Trem brown face pack on this thing! And all the other fantastic captures you’ve done on the Kemper!
Next week packs will appear. Thanks dude!
I was thinking it was only a pedal. Run pedals in front and after tonex to get your sound. I have the Helix and you can split the loops to insert effects between the loop input and output. I like that you can take the amp you have to a gig without the large weight. I went SYNERGY racks to have real amps without hauling 16 amps around, thats 4 SYN2 racks. I use the Helix as a midi controler and timed stereo effects, IRs. Because having the Helix for 2 years, I felt the line 6 models didnt react like the real deal. Now with 8 SYNERGY modules, I have real amps with effects and can do anything from worship to death metal and everything between. Just 1 8rack box and 2 guitars to gig is easier than my old rig of 2 amps and 2 guitars and a large pedal board.
My Dr. Z only has an input, no channel switching, no effects loop. I've never really used one. I've always just put time based stuff in front of the amp, after any gain stages for the most part, and it seems to work. Sometimes it's nice to add some delay, compression, equalization and such after the amp when recording. This pretty much does all of that. Are effects loops really a thing, have I been missing out?
Inserting a spring reverb between the amp and a cab, and after the cab, gives very different results. The before-cab spring reverb makes more sense.
Another benefit of an FX loop is that such a thing would allow the user to split send the "no cab" signal to an actual guitar cab, and the "with cab" signal to the front.
I ordered mine, but it’s on back order. Can’t wait though!!
Very informative video! Might have to try one of these.
All fair points , delay in front of clean or edge of breakup preamp . And yes makes sense to have an engineers head on regarding effects after recorded track. Would be nice to highlight the reason for inserting delays, modulation and reverb in the effects loop and not skip over it .Eg makes the delays cleaner as its not being driven through the gain stage/saturation of the preamp. And yes a lot of vintage amps where single channel , so there are exceptions to rules of thumbs , what ever you're going for is the main goal.
LOVE your playing in the intro! God bless you brother.
Thank you kindly!
Its an amp sim pedal. A loop would be a total waste. The difference between running effects in a loop or afterwards is minimal. I suppose quite a few would still pay $500 or whatever it would cost at that point but then it would be the most expensive amp sim pedal released. Totally different story with real amps where placing effects would either require a loop or post-mic.
HX stomp has an effect loop. Is it relevant to use ToneX as an amp inside an HX stomp signal chain then ? With the time base effects after the send and return block ? It wouldn't solve the time effects between preamp and power amp and also the time base effects would even be after the ToneX simulated Cab. Does it matter ?
I’m glad someone said it in an understanding way. I’ve stopped reading reviews online about it. I’ve come across no less than 4 people bitching about it while they’re still on the waiting list for one. Don’t even have the unit yet and complaining about it.
ToneJunkie - have you tried running the Tone X into a powered Kemper Kabinet, i was wondering if that's a good idea/speaker for this unit?
My Question is this... It may have already been asked, but IK has some Great Reverbs in there as well. Usually I have my Reverbs at the end. Thats the only reason I was hoping for an FX Loop. Now (TRUE) using a multifx processor for your Delays and Reverbs and only the "Room" Reverb on the Tones works well before a delay. I guess I was hoping ultimately that you would have that option with a Loop. BUT I LOVE the ToneX !! I Love Everything about it So Fr! Thank You for taking the time do this video and God Bless You bro!!
Steve Rutledge
I think you are spot on about the effects loop. Classic case of people trying to apply old knowledge to new things. Like how we need to know how much horse power a car has before buying it!