Is the MCDM “Flee, Mortals” x D&D Collab Bad For the Hobby?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ค. 2024
- Recently, there’s been a flood of new D&DBeyond products from actual non-wotc publishers, like material from the Dungeon Dudes with their Drakkenheim books, Tome of Beasts by Kobold Press, Humblewood, and Lairs of Etharis. Is this actually good for the hobby, or is it bad for the hobby? Let's discuss.
0:00 Intro
2:10 Welcome to My TED Talk
2:24 The Biz
4:04 Competition
5:50 Moar Is Better
6:20 Who Is It Good For? - เกม
Milk Can Do More?
Mary Climbs Dull Mountains?
Multi-Cat Dimaentional Mirror?
My Crazy Dog Morris?
I love Flee Mortals! as a monster creation book for games other than 5E. It's brilliantly put together as a d20 reference for everything including 5E. I have mixed feelings about them going onto D&D Beyond because I still wonder if there was a somewhat secretive game license agreement signed behind the scenes between the two companies. We'll see, I guess. I think MCDM actually stands for Monster Cow Domination Master or some such. 🤪
I agree, mixed feelings. And you can bet if there *was* a secret agreement, it's locked under an airtight NDA so as to not repeat the OGL kerfuffle
Wotc was short sighted. Instead of trying to revoke the OGL. They should've became Steam. The one place to buy and play all of your RPG material.
They didn't try to revoke the OGL. You've been lied to by TH-cam influencers.
And, let's be honest. If they'd tried to become "the one place to buy and play all of your RPG material" you all would have screamed about that.
If you wanna make the argument that DnD Beyond's (almost) monopoly position is bad for the hobby you have to first acknowledge that the majority of the hobby buys the books and maybe an adventure and then plays for years in person. The (very loud) group that plays online should really be classified as a different sub-genre with a different relationship to DnDB.
Good point!
I think it is a bit neutral at the minute, but I do think it is a risk. Part of the issue (and I am finding this transitioning from 5e to PF2 especially as I have books and FGU purchases) is the sunk cost into a platform.
If you sink a lot of money into something, you not only become very defensive of it (hence edition wars), but you can do so to your detriment by ignoring something better and continuing to sink money into bad product.
This no less goes for digital platforms than editions. It can mean people become unwilling to move away and try something else because the sunk cost is too high.
This person gets it! Might have taken Econ 1!
I'm just days away from publishing my first book on Amazon, and you talking about it coincidentally answered my question of what the heck Select is.
Matt Colville Dungeon Master
For me I don't think the recent introduction of material is good or bad for the hobby, I think it is neutral. I say this as after the "ogl incident" a lot of people became grounded in their view of WotC, Hasbro, 3rd-party content, and other systems. I myself backed the MCDM system, and am using dnd until the systems predicted release of summer 2025.
Having content of other publishers, does help give eyes to that style of content. But fundamentally I don't think this will do much to affect the current environment and feelings around the dnd franchise.
"matt colville dungeon master"? there's no way that's right.
Sly Flourish has been saying this
It's a mixed bag.
One of the most important things to remember is that any electronic product, D&D Beyond, PDFs, streaming music, etc..., can be yanked from you.
If you enjoyed 4th ed's DDI for example, well, it's gone now eh?
Those of us old enough to remember, Wizards of the Coast literally pulled all of their products out of Drivethru RPG and you coudln't download them if you didn't already do so before.
On the other hand, a big part of the D&D Beyond isn't necessarily reference ability, it's use. Actual game use. Saving yourself page flipping time and saving yourself the ability to have to manually roll things or map things out due to the D&D Beyond ability to integrate these books?
How much is your time worth? If you buy a $60 book on D&D Beyond, use it multiple times for say, 20 hours worth and WoTC yanks it did you get your money's worth? That's a question that only the buy can answer.
PDFs cannot be yanked from you. May turn off new downloads, but that's different.
@hawkname1234 if you haven't downloaded them and they are twice you do not get an exception. Or if you downloaded and suffered hard drive failure.
I think it's good short-term for all the reasons you mentioned.
The grognard in me baulks at the idea of not owning actual products. If D&D Beyond shuts down, then all my purchases disappear. I prefer actual books and pdfs that I can store myself. But that's just one facet of adjusting to the digital age. I'm also concerned with the long-term possibility that DnD Beyond dominates the market and becomes the only viable way to publish D&D related products.
100%
What do you mean "viable"? You don't think DriveThruRPG, Roll20, Amazon or other publishing outlets will exist? Of course they will.
Or did you want some other company to hand over their marketing department and mailing list to you, in addition to giving you a free license to build off their products and assembled customer base?
GM Jim. I’m one more Steal These Rules video from being a subscriber. That’s your strong suit. As is your “no-bullshit” direct approach. You are knowledgeable and confident. But although you have “big appeal” with my demographic, you and some of your peers don’t check off the “likability” boxes as understood by the younger crowd. This is not meant to be critical or constructive because it’s not something you can change, and neither could I (we share a similar style). It comes down to your gaze, your delivery, your bone structure, and your persona. That said, don’t CHANGE for ANYBODY. Certainly not for the pennies that TH-cam throws at you. Your channel is excellent and should never be gauged by likes or subscribers.
…and since I’m being told not to stop there…here goes. There IS NO WAY, none, no way, that you give off a fair-to-WOTC vibe in the context of keeping it fair between your affinity for WOTC vs 3rd Party publishers. You will always fight for the little guy because that’s who GM Jim is - and you are respected for it. But kudos for trying to keep it even and fair, even if it doesn’t come across. And who cares about “even” anyway? That’s not how the psyche aligns itself - most of us can’t hide our preferences because they are strong,my friend. So stay strong.
@@AbsenceOfContrition I agree with part of this. Probably more anti-WOTC than pro, but that is his bread and butter. I generally think that Jim should not change his approach.
@1:30 No bad blood? So, why didn't the former employee of WotC show up in their promo and marketing videos on TH-cam? Not once. We was able to send his buddy, Intercaso, which is good. Just checking - that was total speculation about bad blood. The evidence of him not being in any of these announcements is probably circumstantial.
you say I'm speculating, but you are also speculating. No one knows for sure what's in his heart, I suppose.
@@wizardsling totally reasonable to say that.
It's INSANE irrationality to make deductions from among the infinite things that don't happen.
:D Mostly Crazed Dungeon Minions
I LOVE Flee! Mortals. It’s by far my favorite monster book. I bought the physical/PDF and since I use dndbeyond so much I am likely to buy it there too. So that means they got 2 sales from me. I understand the walled garden issue but I think this gives them a chance to expand their popularity and then if they choose to not sell there in the future they at least have an extended fan base. Dndbeyond lock-in is real but every online digital provider is their own garden, so might as well use the best and official one.
officail sure but not best by a long shot theres way better then dnd beyond
@@Shattered_Entertainment so dndbeyond is great, but by it being official there is a higher (not guaranteed) chance it won’t just get shut down especially since they are driving a lot of work into it. Granted, it’s all a chance and for all we know next year they pull the plug for some crazy reason.
As a side note, what are the other ones you feel are better?
It's not a walled garden, people. That's not what that word means.
I think the only thing that will dethrone D&D is WOTC itself. Daggerheart and MCDM's game may be great games (I'm loving the Daggerheart playtest) but they just don't have the same cultural cachet and footprint.
That's not to say they shouldn't strive to be better and more innovative or even more niche.
As for the original question - I think it's good for MCDM and WOTC and not overly detrimental to the hobby as a whole. There's a ton of good games out there that aren't 5e and thus have no connection to D&D Beyond. The reliance on digital tools though is overall a negative for the hobby IMO. Whether that's D&D Beyond or Demiplane or Shard - all of those could completely change or even go dark. Heck even if they update a book but you don't want to use the updated material you have no choice.
I think you are overlooking Demiplane. Once they get their 5e Nexus fully ramped up, I think you will see more 3rd party titles go there, which will give exposure to the non-5e games as well. This is because a single membership to Demiplane gives access to all of their Nexuses ("Nexi"?), which is basically a system, like Pathfinder, Vampire the Masquerade, Avatar the Last Airbender, or Marvel Mutliverse. "Tal'dorei Reborn" from Darrington Press and "Tome of Beasts 1" from Kobold Press are already available on both D&D Beyond and on Demiplane. And Demiplane already has Nexi for Daggerheart and Candela Obscura from the Critical Role crew as well. As long as Dungeon Dudes and MCDM haven't signed exclusivity agreements with D&D Beyond, I'd imagine they'll be added to Demiplane as soon as possible, and then we'll see how the landscape changes.
Why is Demiplane any different from any of the other marketplaces?
@@hawkname1234 It is different in that it isn't "incentivizing the community into staying within the walled garden" since Demiplane's "garden" doesn't have walls. I suppose Roll20 is similar, but I haven't used Roll20 in years so I don't know how it holds up as a way to share content and create characters.
Put me in my place at 5:37. Very well then, so be it.
Where’s the collab? MCDM is not collaborating with D & D in the meaningful sense. On topic, I cannot see how this is “bad” for the hobby.
what do you mean where's the collab? Do you think the book just appeared on D&D beyond by accident like the immaculate conception?
@@wizardslinglmao, I get what you are going for, but this is the Internet, so please allow me to be pedantic:
1. the immaculate conception (if you believe in it) was anything but accidental; it was divine intervention.
1.5 not that it refutes your point in the way that the first part does, but the immaculate conception is not the same as the incarnation. Rather, it refers to the conception of Mary in the womb of her mother, Anne by her human father, Joachim, wherein she was miraculously preserved from the effects of original sin by the grace of God.
@@M4TCH3SM4L0N3 "by accident like the immaculate conception" is a pretty funny construction. I know what he was going for, of course. Still funny though.
@@wizardsling It's not a "collab" because the product hasn't suddenly now been part-created by D&D Beyond.
The product is still MCDM's product.
D&DBeyond is now a place you can additionally access the Product should you purchase it there.
It's like saying Steam / Valve collaborate on the games for sale in their store.
They don't.
@@Phleanix it is a collab.
5:55 ... otherwise, where would we get all the nice rules to steal from 😄
I agree, I'm sure it was a smart move for MCDM, at least at this moment. It might put them on more people's radar and potentially increase the interest in their RPG, and in the worst case, they just sell more units of "Flee Mortals"... to subsidize the development of their RPG, anyway 🤷♀
However, I don't think it would be a good way forward for the hobby, in general. The risk of having a company with lots of skin in the game being able to curate the content that is available doesn't sound enticing to me.
They don't, and can't, curate 3rd party products. That's not the situation. They CAN curate which products they list on their own marketplace.
Yes, that's what I was going for, sorry if that was unclear. In particular when thinking of the hobby as "TTRPGs as a whole", not just "D&D and 3rd party content" - I think some people here made a reference to Valve/Steam, and I can't imagine that it would work out in a similar way with D&D Beyond and TTRPGs.
Love the attempt to decode "MCDM".
I understand your point that it's worth thinking about this topic. I tend to see this collaboration as valuable for MCDM. Many people have no idea what MCDM is, but if they get the book, or even Google MCDM, they might see the value in the upcoming RPG. I hope it gets people watching his channel and so we get more people behind the screen and possibly playing other systems.
This might be a pipe dream, but i can hope.
In my opinion a "5e killer" (in the sense of a single more commercially successful product) is impossible to make. When people who (/whom?/... dammit) have only played 5e start playing other TTRPGs they scatter to the four winds, and rightly so, for everyone starts looking for different things in their games.
Competition might bring down WotC or elevate their game, that is completely up to them (or at least mostly to the people making the decisions).
And MCDM stands for Mildew Can Damage Machines, as personally experienced by Matt himself who is obviously an android by his talking speed.
There is a network effect to system mastery, as all the designers of new "fantasy heartbreakers" are about to find out. Some people will play every game. None are likely to gain a critical mass.
I think people don't realize that D&D Beyond is a completely separate company, but is owned by WoTC. This is actually kind of a master stroke for the business. D&D Beyond was purchased to be the platform for WoTC's D&D VTT. WoTC has already publicly stated that "D&D is under monitized" and that they are moving away from physically publishing books...
The master stroke is, that this is the session zero for their VTT. Why would people want to pay for multiple VTTs when you can get any ttrpg that is available in one spot?
This is all speculation, but I see this as the strategic grand slam that WoTC has been looking for.
A lot of what you wrote is misinformation peddled by anti-WotC outrage merchants on TH-cam. It was a HASBRO executive on an earnings call that said "D&D is under-monetized." They are not moving away from physically publishing books. That has been debunked a thousand times (so Google it). They're literally releasing a whole new set of printed core books THIS YEAR.
I don't think it's necessarily bad as long as WOTC doesn't unintentionally (or otherwise) screw over 3rd party creators. I've long advocated for an equivalent Valve/Steam digital platform for TTRPGs, and DNDBeyond might be a small step in that direction.
Could be, I suppose time will tell
So, you can be anti-WOTC/Hasbro without being a dick, and criticism of a company is not the same as criticizing an individual. I’ve been involved in D&D and MTG for like 25 years, and as much as I love those games, I’m sick of feeling exploited by Hasbro. I will add, if you buy WOTC products, you’re not neutral, you’re literally supporting them, which is an option available to you, and I might not like it, but at the end of the day these are just games
He's one of many 3rd partt devs that have sold out to WotC. Ghostfire Gaming, The Dungeon Dudes, and even Kobold Press all bent the knee and kissed the ring.
MCDM is just thr latest.
And every one of those devs should be shunned by the ttrpg community as a whole. They betrayed gamers for a chance at short term profits.
The irony kicks up a notch when these same 3rd party devs spent many hours shitting on WotC for the OGL debacle, yet got on their knees the second WotC opened up the checkbook.
So yeah, MCDM, Dungeon Dudes, Kobold Press, Ghostfire...youll never get a red cent from me going forward.
betrayed? that's a bit dramatic innit
@@wizardsling No, since most of them made videos where they High Horsed about the OGL, which was designed to kill 3rd party devs like themselves. But the moment there's cash offered to them, they gave in like little WotC cucks.
So yeah, they betrayed the TTRPG community.
This is the level of rationality we see in all of the people who were taken in by the OGL misinformation from the exact same TH-camrs. It's like the French Revolution with you people. Just keep making stuff up and beheading the most recent crop who you have decided are not pure enough.
Those people all lied about WotC (except Colville, who hates WotC but never said anything). But they *knew* WotC weren't slick, immoral backstabbers. That's why they all agreed to do business with them. They knew they were selling misinformation to stoke outrage against their competitor. That's what their actions indicate, anyhow.
This is just the beginning. In time we will see many more TH-camrs publishing on DnD Beyond.