Me: I break out new and improved ship-to-ship combat rules for players to use and abuse. My players: Party's cleric casts _Water Walk_ and they storm the enemy ship, anyway.
When I was in my late teens I was a Cadet on Trainingship DANNMARK, a fullrigged tallship. Although we didn’t attempt to board any other ships at sea, and we didn’t encounter any Krakens, it still gave me some insight into what it takes to maneuver a large sailing vessel. We did have engines to aid the ship, so we could sail without using our sails, but it would be slow. There’s a lot of things to do on a ship, especially under sails, when maneuvering it! Of course a large crew makes it easier. But having players assigned to different tasks is absolutely a great idea. Have a strong player pull ropes to hoist or lower sails, a high dex player to enter the rig to pull in or loosen sails, a high charisma player yelling orders to crew, etc.. Someone needs to navigate, someone need to steer, someone needed on repair duty when the ship to ship combat starts, tending wounded, handling ballistas or cannons, (and unless there’s available crew to aid them, then ballistas and cannons should take two players - it’s not only about having things to do, but about what resources the group have available). Crew is a resource, and unless there’s plenty of it, players will find some tasks harder, and getting increasingly hard if crew is lost to other tasks or are wounded….. Just my two cents…
Ultimately the problem with ship combat in... a ship is one character in basically every TTRPG I've ever played. You wind up with a lot of roles that get to decide if they want to give +1 to the pilot or +1 to the gunner, a character who gets to roll the attack and damage rolls, and the pilot who is the only one who really gets to make any tactical decisions. I've played in Starfinder games where two players would just leave the table for any starship combat segments because of how irrelevant they felt in a system like that. Ultimately this is a bit of a necessary compromise: You'd need an entire rulebook's worth of content to make ship-to-ship combat tactically interesting for every single party member, and this would introduce having to look up and memorize a ton of rules for maybe 2-3 encounters in a campaign. I do have my own takes, but a lot of it comes down to 'just get into traditional D&D combat'. Things like your spell amplification stations for mages, sea and flying mounts for martials that want to take the fight to the enemy and making extensive use of long-ranged summoning, enemy flying mounts and boarding parties for martials who want to play defensively, shipboard gadgets that could work like spells for the PC who wants to run the ship's weapons, and the helmsman just... being the helmsman or handing the role to an NPC for sea battles where the ship's position doesn't matter all that much. Open up the ship combat to enable people to use their class features and make *real decisions*. I don't mean to be overly critical, but that's one of the problems I have with the proposed magic shield system. If the hit location is randomized and has no bearing on the effect of the attack then the player is essentially picking a number on a roulette wheel. There's no strategy there. Maybe you had a more extensive set of rules for this that didn't come across in the video and I missed it, though.
Yeah, the reality is, ship combat is an inherently organized, collective endeavor and not really aligned to the conventional semi-independent heroics 5e is designed around, as everyone effectively has a shared HP bar and thus you cannot diffuse strategic decisions to nearly the same degree. Making it actually _feel_ to be ship combat requires what amounts to a separate game mode that emphasizes tighter cooperation and the group over individuals.
I've heard the Star Trek Adventures rules for ship combat are pretty good. I've considered buying the book just so I can tear the rules apart to adapt them for 5e. A lot of good tips here I might steal too.
Yes! Anything to make ship battles more inclusive and more dynamic. It really is a shame WoTC hasn’t delved into this stuff more on their own. Love your ideas!
Great Stuff! The way you conceptualize this... it's like the different stations on the Enterprise in Star Trek, "Mr Sulu raise the shields! Checkov fire phaser! Spock scan the Kilgon Ship. Scotty Damage Report!!!" Feels like time for Lasers & Feelings!
Great ideas. And would be easy to build on a ship modification system to improve or set defensive peeamitees based on personal preference. More damage output or better defenses. More maneuverability or more armor. Hard points for magic stations. Or weapon stations.
i'll soon start a short pirate-themed campaign, and this is some great inspiration! I have sreamlined the spell amplifier to just double the range of any spell, no resource management needed, (located in the crow's nest so only 1 character can be there) and the spell shield to - once a turn, as a reaction arcana roll, dc 10+spell level, a bit like counterspell. for simplicity's sake. Thanks :)
When I read the title my mind instantly thought of Assassin's Creed Black Flag and Sea of Thieves and how they handle Ship Combat, thankfully I the lazy individual I am don't have to dawdle around trying to think of mechanics like that when I can just copy these 👍
A bunch of interresting ideas, thank you! I would really like to know your thoughts of countering certain spells in ship combat (some of them can destroy a ship immediately like a wall of force in front the ship, or controll water to make it capsize.) Maybe a counterspell system? Longrange wizardbattles while the ships cirkle eachother?
A counterspell system is a very interesting idea. I might include it actually in the magic shield role. Like, the person can deploy the shields in a round, or can instead choose to deploy a "counterspell" shield instead. It's worth some thought, for sure.
The biggest issue with ship-to-ship combat isn't just the multiple roles, it's also what happens when the ship sinks. It's different to have everyone contributing to what becomes a tpk situation than just on PC dying. It's even worse with airship combat.
@@wizardsling cool. at least I get to reuse those college lecture skills LOL Thanks for these tweaks. I totally love the Point Defense mechanic. Robotech/Macross was a cornerstone of my childhood and when the RPG came out, my buddies and I were giddy AF. Dude, you should totally run an IP RPG series...I know it's probably out of the channel's main focus, but you know it'd be rad.
If your ship has a crew, why in the world would you assign a PC to something as mundane as firing a single ballista or cannon? The PCs should either be in command positions or, if passengers, should be using their abilities for things they're GOOD at, like healing, spellcasting, sniping, etc., while crewmen handle the mundane tasks. In fact, you've already solved the problem of cannon fire when you mentioned the possibility of giving one PC more than one artillery piece to fire. That sounds more like a crew chief or bo'sun's job than some swabbie's, ordering a crew of artillerymen in when and at what to fire their guns.
Because the point of my video was to offer options of roles for the PCs to take on to make ship combat more engaging. If you farm out all the "mundane" tasks to NPCs, then the PCs have nothing to do, which is the current problem with ship combat.
First video of Kraken week I've watched, and a great one to start off!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Me: I break out new and improved ship-to-ship combat rules for players to use and abuse.
My players: Party's cleric casts _Water Walk_ and they storm the enemy ship, anyway.
Have ship weapons. I run airships but automatic steampunk gatling guns tend to discourage the fly spell very well.
When I was in my late teens I was a Cadet on Trainingship DANNMARK, a fullrigged tallship.
Although we didn’t attempt to board any other ships at sea, and we didn’t encounter any Krakens, it still gave me some insight into what it takes to maneuver a large sailing vessel.
We did have engines to aid the ship, so we could sail without using our sails, but it would be slow.
There’s a lot of things to do on a ship, especially under sails, when maneuvering it!
Of course a large crew makes it easier.
But having players assigned to different tasks is absolutely a great idea.
Have a strong player pull ropes to hoist or lower sails, a high dex player to enter the rig to pull in or loosen sails, a high charisma player yelling orders to crew, etc..
Someone needs to navigate, someone need to steer, someone needed on repair duty when the ship to ship combat starts, tending wounded, handling ballistas or cannons, (and unless there’s available crew to aid them, then ballistas and cannons should take two players - it’s not only about having things to do, but about what resources the group have available).
Crew is a resource, and unless there’s plenty of it, players will find some tasks harder, and getting increasingly hard if crew is lost to other tasks or are wounded…..
Just my two cents…
The implementation of the point defense system is fantastic.
Ultimately the problem with ship combat in... a ship is one character in basically every TTRPG I've ever played. You wind up with a lot of roles that get to decide if they want to give +1 to the pilot or +1 to the gunner, a character who gets to roll the attack and damage rolls, and the pilot who is the only one who really gets to make any tactical decisions. I've played in Starfinder games where two players would just leave the table for any starship combat segments because of how irrelevant they felt in a system like that. Ultimately this is a bit of a necessary compromise: You'd need an entire rulebook's worth of content to make ship-to-ship combat tactically interesting for every single party member, and this would introduce having to look up and memorize a ton of rules for maybe 2-3 encounters in a campaign.
I do have my own takes, but a lot of it comes down to 'just get into traditional D&D combat'. Things like your spell amplification stations for mages, sea and flying mounts for martials that want to take the fight to the enemy and making extensive use of long-ranged summoning, enemy flying mounts and boarding parties for martials who want to play defensively, shipboard gadgets that could work like spells for the PC who wants to run the ship's weapons, and the helmsman just... being the helmsman or handing the role to an NPC for sea battles where the ship's position doesn't matter all that much. Open up the ship combat to enable people to use their class features and make *real decisions*.
I don't mean to be overly critical, but that's one of the problems I have with the proposed magic shield system. If the hit location is randomized and has no bearing on the effect of the attack then the player is essentially picking a number on a roulette wheel. There's no strategy there. Maybe you had a more extensive set of rules for this that didn't come across in the video and I missed it, though.
Yeah, the reality is, ship combat is an inherently organized, collective endeavor and not really aligned to the conventional semi-independent heroics 5e is designed around, as everyone effectively has a shared HP bar and thus you cannot diffuse strategic decisions to nearly the same degree. Making it actually _feel_ to be ship combat requires what amounts to a separate game mode that emphasizes tighter cooperation and the group over individuals.
Robotech!!!!! I loved that shield implementation.
Way to kick of der Krakenwagon
Hopefully, it won't require a Krankenwagen
I've heard the Star Trek Adventures rules for ship combat are pretty good. I've considered buying the book just so I can tear the rules apart to adapt them for 5e. A lot of good tips here I might steal too.
Yes! Anything to make ship battles more inclusive and more dynamic. It really is a shame WoTC hasn’t delved into this stuff more on their own. Love your ideas!
Great Stuff! The way you conceptualize this... it's like the different stations on the Enterprise in Star Trek, "Mr Sulu raise the shields! Checkov fire phaser! Spock scan the Kilgon Ship. Scotty Damage Report!!!"
Feels like time for Lasers & Feelings!
Exactly. I've never been in a naval battle, but I have seen a lot of star trek
Laser those Feelings!
Yeah! I was looking forward to this one and it did not disappoint, great way to kick off Kraken Week 🐙🌊
thanks dood! ARRRRRRRRRRRR
This was such a great video! Clear, concise, ideas, a LIST! Thank you!
Great ideas. And would be easy to build on a ship modification system to improve or set defensive peeamitees based on personal preference. More damage output or better defenses. More maneuverability or more armor. Hard points for magic stations. Or weapon stations.
Great ideas! Kraken Week is working, you're maybe the fifth new creator I've met.
welcome aboard matey!
absolutely lovely creative video! makes ship to ship combat exciting :D
wasn't expecting a Macross mention here in Kraken week, but definitely a happy surprise! 😂🧡
Never a bad time for Robotech :)
i'll soon start a short pirate-themed campaign, and this is some great inspiration! I have sreamlined the spell amplifier to just double the range of any spell, no resource management needed, (located in the crow's nest so only 1 character can be there) and the spell shield to - once a turn, as a reaction arcana roll, dc 10+spell level, a bit like counterspell. for simplicity's sake. Thanks :)
I think this could work for spelljammer too
I'm stealing this exactly for this purpose!!
great ship combat insights
greate ideas;
defently usful for most RPG system i will try to use it
The pointy hat sent me for this nautical nuanced knowledge nugget.
noyce!
Would love a full pdf with every role from the video 🙏🏻. Fantastic video nonetheless !
jimheskett.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/ShiptoShipRoles.pdf
When I read the title my mind instantly thought of Assassin's Creed Black Flag and Sea of Thieves and how they handle Ship Combat, thankfully I the lazy individual I am don't have to dawdle around trying to think of mechanics like that when I can just copy these 👍
A bunch of interresting ideas, thank you! I would really like to know your thoughts of countering certain spells in ship combat (some of them can destroy a ship immediately like a wall of force in front the ship, or controll water to make it capsize.) Maybe a counterspell system? Longrange wizardbattles while the ships cirkle eachother?
A counterspell system is a very interesting idea. I might include it actually in the magic shield role. Like, the person can deploy the shields in a round, or can instead choose to deploy a "counterspell" shield instead. It's worth some thought, for sure.
Happy Kraken Week! 🐙 🐙🐙🐙🐙🐙
Shout-out to the d100 Rogue Trader ttrpg (the one that inspired the videogame)!
Clunky, yes, but plenty of good ideas in there ^^
What about a Rules to steal from Pirate Borg.
it does seem like the kind of video I would make, but another creator is making a Pirate Borg video for kraken week ;)
The biggest issue with ship-to-ship combat isn't just the multiple roles, it's also what happens when the ship sinks. It's different to have everyone contributing to what becomes a tpk situation than just on PC dying. It's even worse with airship combat.
Think about a canon that can be used by the casters to use their spells with their spellslots against the enemy ship
o yes combat even with Bow is shorrt range ;
i only had once a turnament when i cold use loong rage bow in my play
🦑
🦍
do you have these addtiona ship roles and so on written down? id apreacte having these to hand
🥳❤️👍🏿
Six switches
😂 I only realized it in the end and felt the urge to rewatch it to be sure
I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about... ;)
@@wizardsling 😉
🦑
So, the printable version is on your Patreon?
Unfortunately I do not have a patreon at the moment, but feel free to take a screenshot from near the end of the video!
@@wizardsling cool. at least I get to reuse those college lecture skills LOL Thanks for these tweaks. I totally love the Point Defense mechanic. Robotech/Macross was a cornerstone of my childhood and when the RPG came out, my buddies and I were giddy AF. Dude, you should totally run an IP RPG series...I know it's probably out of the channel's main focus, but you know it'd be rad.
jimheskett.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/ShiptoShipRoles.pdf
@@wizardsling EPIC!! Thanks!!
If your ship has a crew, why in the world would you assign a PC to something as mundane as firing a single ballista or cannon? The PCs should either be in command positions or, if passengers, should be using their abilities for things they're GOOD at, like healing, spellcasting, sniping, etc., while crewmen handle the mundane tasks. In fact, you've already solved the problem of cannon fire when you mentioned the possibility of giving one PC more than one artillery piece to fire. That sounds more like a crew chief or bo'sun's job than some swabbie's, ordering a crew of artillerymen in when and at what to fire their guns.
Because the point of my video was to offer options of roles for the PCs to take on to make ship combat more engaging. If you farm out all the "mundane" tasks to NPCs, then the PCs have nothing to do, which is the current problem with ship combat.
:))))
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