The Dutch Van Der Linde Cannibal Theory - Red Dead Redemption
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Today we're looking at a lesser known theory that has been circulating a slight bit of late, but has existed for as long as Red Dead Redemption. I thought we'd take a look at it together even if it is a bit thin on substance because the alternative is I do nothing for another day.
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#RDR #RedDeadRedemption #RockstarGames
John: "YOU... tried... you tried to eat me!"
Dutch: "I DIDN'T HAVE A CHOICE, SON"
Dutch eats babies
Dutch is the final sasquatch in Undead Nightmare confirmed
@@Helvigster berries and mushroom you fool
@@raptorfromthe6ix833 well he did, now none of him (???) are left
some maniac's been murdering him (???)
he was the last of his kind (literally LOL)
YOU EAT *BABYS!!*
Dutch: spread it open and
let me take a deep.. Snif of that Mahi mahi
I got my DNA test back turns out I'm 100% sasquatchian
Probably not intentional, but in real life there is a thing called Wendigo Psychosis, essentially if someone is forced to commit cannibalism, or is nearly driven to the point of it, they will feel an intense need to consume human flesh, even after they have access to better reasources.
Dutch being at his most desperate could have driven him to the point of canniblism.
Also think he could’ve just met cannibals, and to charm them or just avoid being eaten himself just went with it.
You know, Ben Franklin once said: "Eat to live." Don't. Live. To eat.
In fact, the legend goes further in some areas saying that even strong greed in general can leave you open to possession, meaning he would already be ripe for it. He wouldn't even need to be that desperate, just in the wrong area where the spirit hunts. Today in RDR2 I had an alien spaceship hoving over my head at a 1899 Jones town site. Im not sure the idea above is too far fetched.
Imagine wasting a Skinner camp, seeing a fat steak on the grille, and going "well, to leave that to rot would be a shame!"
Big whoops.
@@SStupendousRavenous? Great film, by the way
The bones around the campfire, the presence of other implications of cannibalism and an actual cannibal in the game, and the human skulls present in his living space makes me think this theory is likely. It's not something that Dutch would never do given his mental state at the time. Cannibalism is also by no means something Rockstar is afraid of portraying in their games.
Or maybe hes recruiting cannibals for his gang perhaps that is what the implication is dutch used to surround himself with trelawny hosea and others who where either classy or deep down good but starting with micah he started to recruit worse and worse people until hes surrounded by cannibals rapists and just gang members that are vastly worse than anything the odriscols could do maybe thats also the pount of colm hes dutchs parallel him and colm are on in the same but dutch and his boys put dutch on a pedestal and despise colm idk its interesting and i think iys more about how dutch had a family at one point ( even before rdr2. John mentions how they where all close and dutch even taught him how to read) and now hes just surrounded by madness he himself has become cartoonishly insane and thus surrounds himself with ppl more insane than him to
Put himself back on the pedestal just like how he brought ppl in to teach them how to read and raise them to admire him hes taking lost natives who have no tribe or land and have probably been living like outlaws off the grid for years even look at the context rdr2 gives to this when he sees gow angry and easy the chiefs son is to manipulate and how much the natives hate the changing world as him i really do think that the idea is that he is no longer a charmer but a manipulative monster who surrounds himself with dangerous unstable individuals
Trevor in GTA V even says "Never eat Indian people!" during a switch to him where he's vomiting in a fountain.
@lsswappedcessna not only that but there's literally a cult of cannibals that Trevor can take people to in GTA 5
@@Sin05269WAIT WHAT??? E X P L A I N PLEASE???
@@Salem-j7qThere are certain events that may happen when you play as Trevor, where you can take certain people to the "Altruists Cult", there are implications that the Cult is a cannibal one, you can search it online in case you want more information about it
The moment I started to question if Dutch was always a bad guy was when in the second game Arthur first meets the agents while fishing. Milton said a line that stuck with me, "orphaned street kid seduced by that maniacs silver tongue and matures into a degenerate killer". To me that line was like an eye opener, instead of me thinking Dutch saved Arthur I started to consider he just saw an opportunity to have a life long servant who he can manipulate into doing anything for him.
Right! I'd say the reality of Dutch grooming arthur from a young age into making him into a sort of pawn for the gang is something that a lot of people don't really think about. They see it as solely a father-son dynamic, which don't get me wrong it totally is, but it's way WAY more complex than that and I think Dutch manipulated Arthur from the start. He was vulnerable, newly orphaned and alone. Dutch is sort of notorious for his charisma and that's mentioned several times throughout the game.
No he saved him
Same, and I felt the same way about Dutch when I found out how he met Javier. It was another opportunity for him to have another life long servant to manipulate lol. I also found it so weird that after that scene with the Pinkertons + when we trashed Valentine after herding sheep, he was so goddamned paranoid even taunting Arthur at camp from time to time.
GRIFFITH!!!
Exactly!
This could’ve made Dutch into two people. The gang charmer Dutch and the survivalist Dutch.
Dr. Jekyll and Mr.Hyde story
@@Shmuxernah Jekyll and Hyde were two split personalities, Dutch is a charismatic persona but terrible person
@@noamias4897 no, it wasn't split personality at all, Hyde was a persona to allow Jekyll to indulge in his secret desires. they're the same person. i recommend you actually read the book, it's very good!
@@carloscatiajoana i did read it and didn't interpret it that way, but ur probably right
@@carloscatiajoana Tbf a lot of people really know the character from League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and they did use the character(s) as more of a split personality thing iirc,
I personally don't think he is a cannibal but it brings up an interesting reality. The mere fact that we have to stop and ask "Was dutch a cannibal?" Is representative of who his character was and I think that, at least, was intentional on Rockstar's behalf.
Idk to me it just depends on what you mean by cannibal. Was he actively hunting people to eat? I highly highly doubt it. Has Dutch consumed human meat? Imo absolutely. Take Micah for example. Micah could easily influence Dutch just by being his yes man, despite how horrible he was. So there’s no doubt in mind if Dutch had a couple of cannibals in whatever group he was leading, he would do it.
11:25 I will never not appreciate Fizhy taking time out of his day to dedicate several minutes of a video on a 13 year old game to analyze rust in bathtub.
hes liying its not true
@@DutchVanDer_Linde hmmmmmmm
@DutchVanDer_Linde why did you betray arthur Dutch?
@@DutchVanDer_LindeDUTCH YOU EAT BABIES. YOU NEED TO, TO SURVIVE EVERYONE KNOWS THAT
@@DutchVanDer_Lindeah fair bro u'v convinced me
I honestly don’t find this theory far fetched. I think Dutch’s delusions of grandeur and his own importance could eventually lead him down the path to cannibalism. He has nothing left but his narcissistic nature. He couldn’t even let John kill him because he had to be the author of his own demise.
True, getting shot seems like it'd be preferable to how he went but also was a great scene mirrored by his scene with Arthur and the American army
Yep. He just had to EAT HUMANS to fuel his plans
I mean it’s still extremely far fetched 😂 why would narcissism lead someone to cannibalism when he still had people following him
@@Saber23yeah, I think it would more likely be because of low supplies or just some weird display of power
Dutch lived the high life whenever he could look at how he's dressed in rdr2,and his sleeping quarters in both games dutch wants the best of the best.Do you really think dutch would eat people he thinks himself above it.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Dutch ate folk by the end. He’d clearly lost his mind in Red Dead 1. Eating the remains of some of his enemies and even keeping their skulls, wouldn’t be outside the realm of possibility for him. Maybe in some crazed logic, Dutch believed it’d make him invincible 🤷♀️
STOP IT I CANT TAKE IT ANYMORE STOP
"You'll never know true strenght, until you'll taste the testicles of a man who wronged you"
Eat your enemy's heart to gain their courage.
@@Vaksharules1999 imagine if Dutch ate John's brain and Arthur's lungs. He would be the worst outlaw the world has ever seen
@@NiCoNiCoNiCola And Micah's heart.
John: YOU EAT BABIES! EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT! YOU NEED TO, TO SURVIVE!
Dutch: John...I didn't have a...I didn't have a choice!
I did this purely for the memes
lol@@Fizhy
"YOU... EAT BABIES!"
@@FizhyYou FINNALY retrund to RDR lore.
Hello from Croatia! 🇭🇷🇭🇷🇭🇷
Best comment of 2023 😂
“It is man, so in love with greed, he has found only appetites.”
🤣🤣🤣
So dutch had himself some manburger helper in absence of his mangoes.
His last hideout with the old gang was Beaver Hollow. Maybe after he went crazy he tried to decorate his new home like his last "home" in kind of remembrance of his former gang.
Would emphasize that he is sick and really is stuck in time and traumatised. In Beaver Hollow he lost Molly, Susan, Arthur to a degree John (because he left hin and thought he must be dead), Swanson left, Strauss was kicked out by Arthur, Pearson left, Trelawny left....
His whole gang got destroyed.
So in a sick sense he feels close to the gone members, if he tries to decorate his cave in a way, that would remind him of the last 'altogether' moments of his old gang.
Though it was all falling apart, maybe thats how his delusion plays out.
Those are deer femurs. Human femurs look longer and have a distinct ball head that protrudes out to the top side. Deer femurs look pretty much like that asset.
the game displays different animal remains and distinctly uses human femurs in dutch’s room, they do have a ball joint if you look
@@hllziepop @11:48. These are not human. They are deer femurs.
@14:13, these probably are human. At least they look long and thin enough. I’d have to use somebody else xBox to find out.
@eds1942
Maybe YOU are a cannibal
@@Hongobogologomo Anthropology classes, my dad hunted deer, I’ve recently had a CT scan of my hip and have the power of an internet search which sometimes actually still turns up what you want.
I love when random knowledgeable people show up in the yt comments, bravo dude
I would connect this (symbolically) to Beaver Hollow in the second game. The camps get progressively worse as the game goes on, from the more optimistic, classic Western views of Horseshoe Overlook (though not without signs of the gang's fundamental problems - Dutch's fancy clothes, tent, books and gramophone undermine his egalitarian persona from day 1), to the symbolism of the ever-hypocritical Dutch presiding over the gang from a southern manor house at Shady Belle, and finally to Beaver Hollow, a den of degenerate cannibals, which, like his hideout in the first game, is filled with human and animal bones. As Dutch's mental decline accelerates, his environment increasingly reflects his true nature.
I would also dispute the idea that lack of food is necessarily an argument against cannibalism. In universe, Roanoke Ridge is full of game, yet the Murfrees still prefer to cannibalise their victims and display their corpses in horrible ways, for reasons that are never revealed to us or even really speculated about in-game. In reality, we see similar behaviours - various tribal groups had (probably some still have) superstitious beliefs about absorbing the power of enemies by eating them, or believe that it's a way of honouring the dead or taking some of their spirit into themselves. Voluntary cannibalism (usually for ritual reasons) may be even more common than survival cannibalism in history and prehistory.
Some serial killers also cannibalise victims voluntarily, often because they are excited by breaking the taboo (which could fit with Dutch's character, given his aggressive and outspoken rejection of mainstream society and morality), or because they enjoy the sense of triumphant power it gives them over the victim (again, that motivation could make sense for Dutch - he is an extremely domineering narcissist, who is also very insecure whenever his position is threatened, or he perceives it to be; power is extremely important to Dutch).
Edit: Also, I am now recalling his feeding Bronte to an alligator in a new light. Even the name of the quest - 'Revenge is a Dish Best Eaten'. Which kind of establishes, psychologically, that Dutch does gain satisfaction and a sense of power from his enemies being eaten.
Los murfree is bassed in Sawney Beane.
I'm going to dispute specifically the gramophone. The whole gang gets to enjoy the gramophone.
@@Devin_Stromgren they get to listen to it. However the difference between what Dutch plays and what music they play I'm positive he's the only one really enjoying it aside from maybe Molly and hosea
Thinking about it I was reminded of Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now... There are actually a few parallels between Kurtz and Dutch in RDR1.
As far as I can remember there's no suggestion that Kurtz engages in cannibalism, but he's known to mutilate, decapitate and display the bodies of his enemies. At one point in the film, Kurtz gives a monologue describing how prior to leading his cult he and his troops had been tasked with vaccinating the children of a remote village against polio, and had returned later to find that the villagers had hacked off the arms of every child that received an injection and piled them up. It horrified him and broke him emotionally, but at the same time gave him an epiphany that the only way to defeat an enemy as ruthless as that was to be as bad if not worse himself. As he puts it...
"Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared."
When you think about how cannibalism has been used as a weapon of terror, it symbolises the ultimate humiliation and destruction of one's enemies. They have not only been killed, they have been butchered, cooked, consumed, digested and excreted.
I wonder if Dutch had a similar epiphany to Kurtz. With the Van der Linde gang he'd built up his ideal for a society that was outside of the law, but cultured and respectful, and it ultimately failed... But seeing the brutality of the Murfree Brood first hand, and possibly the Skinner Brothers and Nite Folk too, perhaps Dutch came to the conclusion that embracing unrestrained savagery was the only way he could hope to build a successful society outside of the encroaching civilisation.
I see two reasons the game uses corpses as murals. The most common is ritualistic scenes which is bizarrely common in 2 but nonexistent in 1. The second is without explanation but linked to gangs, likely to display savagery like the Mercer gangs rampage. So the skulls are to display him as a monster without further depth to that.
Arthur: “And John and his family, they’re vegan! I’m afraid we gotta let them go!”
Dutch feeling the ultimate sense of betrayal: “John…vegan?”
'Insist?!'
@@mankyscotchgit4986”YOU INSIST?”
Honestly, I could imagine Jack being vegan
@@JohnDoe-hj9fh I don’t think he went vegan since he was in the farm half of his childhood life
@@noobpro5346 well yeah I don't think he'd actually be vegan given the time period and the complete personality shift of older Jack but I think out of everyone he'd be the most likely to go vegan
Dutch didn't get his mangos so human flesh will have to suffice
Lp👝
@ArthurCallahan899 maybe dutch only eats goverment agents and officials exclusively out of spite.
Ah yes. The two are very identical to each other...
@@sairentokira4786 can't spell "mango" without "man".
If it weren't for Arthur being there, Dutch would have defintely eaten that old lady in Guarma he strangled to death. He didn't know Spanish, but he did know human beings. Perhaps... too much.
underrated ass comment, funny too lol
dawg this is your 3rd comment lol
why he didn't steal the gold from her after he killed her.....
I know human beans arthur
@DTXJustin04 Lol! I tried the same, in my head canon he off camera takes the gold from her, because why would he leave it?
Im the one who posted this theory on TikTok, and yes you’re right I did use that tumblr post as a source. So happy you’re talking about this, I love your videos
Like the comment yall let's get fizhy attention!
Which tiktok are you talking about specifically cause i also posted one a couple days before this video came out
@@Supercoolyay I posted it almost a month ago and it has over one million views. My @ is jr.rdr2
I thought it was obvious that he was possibly a cannibal considering he has completely lost his mind and is dressed in a manner of a deranged cannibal
fair enough
leather pants? are they that bad i thought he looked alright for a mentally unhinged person XD
@@kiefgaming1701leather pants in a wet environment. They’re gonna shrink faster than my hopes and dreams
@@kiefgaming1701lmao
I really like this idea, and it honestly makes sense to me. At this point, Dutch has not only dropped the mask of sanity that he kept up in an attempt to fight his own narcissistic and demented nature, but he has actually EMBRACED his true colors. I know a bunch of people who like to say that Dutch just went mad because of the grief that came from the events of rdr2, but it’s way more complicated than that.
The gang humanized Dutch. They gave him respect, compassion, and purpose. Without them, he lost the will to fight his own sinister nature, and the traits and morals that they had rubbed off on him slowly vanished along with the man he had become. By failing to fill the moral void that the gang had left, Dutch reverted to his true self. Unable to find new purpose in life, Dutch would be haunted by the sins of his past, causing him to find a distraction from it in the form of senseless violence that included rape, torture, murder, and now, *cannibalism.*
wait rape? when in RDR1 does he rape anyone??
Dutch kept the gang sane way more than they kept him sane. He was their beacon of hope for decades.
The problem is: As flamboyant and charismatic as he is, he's still a hardened criminal who will step on others to achieve his goals. They all are, but rationalized their actions as something noble by only ripping off the "bad guys". Its a façade that can easily slip. All it takes is a series of failures, which is what happens in RDR2.
@@Sqk. Rdr1 pinkertons say it and its in newspaper iirc. I honestly wouldnt put it past him since hes a loony. Also not to mention he basically kept the women of camp around only to switch out for a younger model every time one grows out of their "Prime". First grimshaw, abagail, then molly, then he attempted to flirt with Mary-beth in several camp encounters. He is a creepy old dude after all.
@@caralho5237 The gang didnt "keep dutch sane," they gave him a reason to act like he was. If they saw him openly being the sociopathic blood thirsty narcissist he really was, theyd never follow him. And since theres nothing dutch loves more than being looked up to because of genuine admiration and respect instead of fear, dutch made himself into a robinhood-like character in order to fulfill his desires to rob and kill while also justifying it to the people who looked up to him. However, once the mask slipped and the gang fell apart, he had no desire to put it back on because he no longer really had a reason to. Thats more what I was trying to say.
@@zoroux2826 That's a grim narrative. Too grim. You can clearly see the grief on Dutch's face, both during and after his fall. He isn't a pure narcissist like Homelander, incapable of forming connections. He took in a bunch of thugs and taught them how to act civilized, and he did it for decades.
You don't need to be inherently evil to become a monster, all you need is to have exploitable character flaws, which is where Dutch falls into.
According to legends it is said that, for those who succumbed to cannibalism are destined to become “Wendigos.” A monster of endless hunger until someone or something puts it out it’s misery.
Damn i had forgotten it, it does fit well with Dutch specially as for his greed in chapter IV onward, we need more money even after both the blackwater train job and the other robbery to Cornwall, or the way he chooses to stay with Micah as for it being that Micah promises more
I don’t buy into this theory in the literal sense but, I wouldn’t be shocked if this was intended by the devs to be a metaphor.
It’s a fun theory and definitely a possibility. I think the most likely thing about it is that whether or not it’s true, Dutch has always been about his appearance and reputation. With Dutch now fully embracing being the anti-civilisation outlaw villain, he’s likely to embrace anything that builds the fear and mystique around him. He could very well have declined to the extent of engaging in cannibalism, but he also would be very likely to encourage such rumours (true or not) so that his reputation as the “terrible, monstrous villain Dutch van der “Lind who should be feared and is not to be trifled with” spreads far and wide. He’s likely to prefer being known for his villainous ways rather than not being known at all.
Counter-arguement. Dutch is a vampire allegory in rdr2, but an actual vampire in rdr1.
Is this Hollywood vampire or the original depiction of a vampire?
@@Fugitive685interview with the vampire vampire
I wonder if we'll ever get a mystery involving the Wendigo.
Map panoramic.
How about the skinwalker? You should hear military reports on their encounters. In 2021 during a major fire an entire group of armed men got terrified after hearing what sounded like a "Woman" screaming. They weren't terrified at that point. They got scared after their commander called out "Hello?", and in the same voice responded back "Hello?". It was enough to make several armed men get back in their armores humvees.
@@NukelearFallout That would be cool for an encounter on RDO. You're doing a mission with players and communicating on the mic, and something repeats the very last thing you said on the microphone out of nowhere. I'm in full survival horror mode at that point.
@@yaboidre5672 That would be cool. But, the encounter I'm talking about happened in real life! I believe in skinwalkers. Considering how many reports there are. And, one night when I was researching skinwalkers when I lived in Wisconsin, I started hearing a very low growling sound happening outside my window for almost a minute. It was almost 1 am, and there were always dogs that would bark at even the tiniest of noises. That night it was completely silent, except for the growling that made my body tense up and get goose bumps so bad I felt paralyzed for what felt like too long. It was a very deep low growl, one I've never heard from even a dog. Especially for almost a minute straight.... needless to say, I stopped researching skinwalkers after. In fact, the only reason I was researching them is because my family in Wisconsin told me about the Beast of Bray road, and a sighting someone they knew had.
@@yaboidre5672 Some things in this world are better left kept secret
Over thanksgiving break, I spent 6 hours trying to find a moose🤦♂️
If you mean in red dead redemption two, then they hardly exist and even then their ones were without antlers, or they’re just two star pelts it’s ridiculously annoying and it’s ridiculous
Definitely something that could fit RDR1, and it brings an extra sense of instability to Dutchy
Great video! I really like this theory.
I feel like dutch would totally sink so low as to eat human meat, but I think he wouldn't do it for survival or to make people afraid. I think he would do it to prove to himself that he is above man, like Raskolnikov in Crime and Punishment.
I imagine Dutch wouldn't gnaw on bones like some feral animal, but prepare (or have prepared) lavish dinners, combining human flesh with wine and vegetables like Hannibal Lecter.
I think he still sees himself as a man of class and culture, a great philosopher and enjoyer of fine art.
this is sooooo spot on..
As soon as I clicked on this video I remembered the line: "You can't change a person, you can only bring out more of their true self." Said by Rains Fall if I remember correctly. That gave me chills. The theory might indeed be a little far fetched, but I wouldn't entirely discard the possibility. Dutch Van Der Linde is a character we still need to know a lot about, there are many blanks in his character. Rdr3 possibly? The femus in the cave is a typical Rockstar move, but it might be a clue. Anyway, just keep in mind that the theory exists.
I don’t think Dutch was a full blown cannibal hunting people for food… but him using the body’s of the ones he did kill as a “resource” doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibility. I’d say its likely, even
"What's in Tahiti, Dutch?"
"Babies."
"WHAT?!"
"I mean mangoes."
John, after killing Dutch goes back to Cochinay after the dust settles. Trying one last time to understand the mindset of the man who raised him.
There he finds the blood stain of Dutch's corpse, freshly taken into town as a trophy to the agency and to be fitted with a coffin.
Human femurs and skulls strewn about the long gone out campfire in Dutch's study. John is disgusted at his findings.
So disgusted he decides he'll never understand the decline of the dead man who would *eat someone.*
He goes home, greets his wife and son, electing not to tell them he's gone to Cochinay at all.
It sticks with him though.
A dead man eating people.
He goes to bed, and has troubled dreams of dead men rising from the grave to wreak utter hell upon the living world, and that no matter what he does.
No matter what he did.
No matter what he will do.
He can't help to view himself as a monster not so far removed just like in his dreams, and he prays to God he will never rise up to wreak further hell upon the living world.
Dutch: i got a plan
Jhon: what is it now dutch ?
Dutch: we need to eat agent ross
The line about “Finding another monster” has lived in my head since I was teen. Dutch, in his mania, was warning all of us
He was right because deep down, he knew he was the same as the lawmen who hunted him - cruel, relentless, and unable to stop himself.
5:56 The shampoo bottle at 3am for literally no reason
real
I like the idea that the three skulls are of Sean, Lenny and Hosea. He wanted the heart and soul of the old gang around him again.
This is one of the best videos you've made imo. The subject is very intriguing and the commentary is top notch. Really looking forward to more vids like these. Obscure facts and theories are just peak
I'm curious, as a British person, what draws you the most to the wild West stories of rdr
Probably for the same reasons plenty of Americans enjoy Game of Thrones and medieval media even though we don't have a history of castles and knights. Some time periods in history are just way cooler than others
*I like how each new Dutch Vanderlinde video is just making Dutch look and sound more evil...*
Actually in the army when people people would get PTSD they would keep some body part of their body to make sure. That they have won same goes for dutch he had PTSD most commonly that his enemies would kill him in his sleep so he made sure he would kill them first and kept the skull because of his PTSD
If he is a cannibal I think it would have a lot to do with power and knowledge and feeling that he could absorb those things by eating others. An element of survival and insanity? Sure, but if he does partake it’s also because he’s a megalomaniac.
"We need more money Arthur" he chants while eating a human leg.
Dutch: It puts the lotion in the bucket, Arthur!
Your voice starts to sound normal if I put it on 1.5x speed
To be honest, i think this is my new headcanon, just because it feels like by 1911 Dutch would’ve actually gone insane to that point, and while i dont agree with all the ‘evidence’in the theory, its still something to think about.
Edit: i just thought about something else too, a reason for Dutch to have become a cannibal could be that his native american gang believed in some sort of supernatural thing where you kill a human and eat them. When they offered the human meat to him, he just went along with it.
Dutch probably dug up Arthur, Hosea, and Micah’s bodies and those are the 3 skulls in his chamber. That’s why they are decorations. He probably talks to them
Fantastic watch! Never knew about this theory before.
Honestly at first i really thought that it was far fetched but looking deeper into it. Dutch could have became one during the events after rdr2 epilogue but who knows really.
Dutch: we cant always fight hunger john we cant fight eating humans we cant fight mentality
Usually for a theory to stick with me, it has to have enough details that make me pause, and can’t be seen in other contexts. I think that the bathtub was just rusty, I think he just put up the skulls of people who could’ve especially annoyed or opposed him, the only detail I really can’t explain is the human bones haphazardly and very discordantly thrown under the chair. It really seems like he wanted to dispose of the evidence of this creature he’d eaten, and the chair was the only half decent place to hide them, it’d be odd even if they aren’t supposed to be human. So that but definitely stuck out to me, but I really don’t think that there are enough details to make it believable for me just quite yet.
I need RDR 3 just so I can have so much more content for Fizhy
It do make sense wow 14 years since original RDR came out and still figuring out new things to this day mindblowing
I dont find this theory far-fetched actually it would make a lot of sense too, I think its not only as intimidation tactic but also if you read accounts of cannibals that didnt do it for survival, a lot of them express also this sense of begin now fused with their "meal" like they're no longer that alone neither. Which wouldn't surprise me that he did it for various reasons. It also resonates thematically with him consuming and cosuming but never be satisfied.
Pearson: “We need food!”
Dutch: “This MF is spitting.”
The reason Dutch goes insane is because in the end of chapter 4 when the trolley crashes Dutch said that he hurt his head and went insane
You dont say...
BRAIN INJURY?
Stupid theory
@@hasspass8751 how
If you're exploring Dutch's hideout as Jack Marsten, well it's been like what, 10 years? It could have been occupied by different people over that time.
The goat of red dead content
With every passing day, I realise more and more how unworthy I am of such a statement. I just do my own thing, more often than not.
@@Fizhy if i want to watch content on red dead 2 I always instinctively start browsing through your channel. Your streams or the videos.
"God damnit Dutch you're eating... people?!"
"Son, we just need.... More.... HONEY."
Dutch is one of the best written characters in videogames
Cannibalism LEADS to mental decline. Makes this theory even better.
10:55 may be crazy but I can see a face on The bath tub
I clicked newest on the comments to see if anyone else seen, u fasho not crazy bro
@@Hayteyu rockstar knew what they were doing fr
This is a very fun theory and the fact it could be true with all the symbolism seen in the series and it's willingness to drive into really dark places makes it probably one of the best ones of rdr
Can’t wait for your GTA6 content. I’m sure that game will be packed with lore and mysteries.
I just realized how recently this video was uploaded
I read a theory that the Skinner brothers were meant to become the tribe that Dutch leads in RDR1
John: YOU EAT BABIES! EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT! YOU NEED TO, TO SURVIVE!
Dutch: Would you just look around you? This world has its consolations!
"You eat babies!!!" - John Marston
It's possible. Although it's pretty clear to me that if there was cannibalism, it wasn't because they were starving.
We'd have to look towards real life cannibalistic serial killers to really understand the possible motivations behind this behavior.
It could be a sexual arousal. It could be out of loneliness. It could have been because it made him feel more powerful in an effort to cope with an insecurity (which narcissists often have).
Or it could be that he's just trying to get people to fear him. Although this would be the coldest and most psychopathic motivation out of all of them.
We can only speculate. There isn't enough evidence to suggest Dutch participated in cannibalism.
The bones, skulls and piece of meat could be interpreted that way, but i don't think it's enough to come to a conclusion.
This theory came up on my TikTok fyp 5 minutes ago, great timing
Assuming Dutch was already in operation in the tall trees region the wkinner brothers might indirectly be a catalyst for things to come.
1
the Skinners are mountain men with a diverse mix of members from whites to natives
2
they are anarchist in practice they seem to have no clear cut goals leadership structure isn't quite structured like the lemony raiders who are also anarchist having only one true leader Otis skinner with Elias green being somewhat an enforcer
3
the bar of entry to this group appears to be non existent you just got to be a sadists and be ok with senseless killings as shown in several open world events where as the other gangs just require you to be a run of the mill outlaw that's proficient with a gun i.e the O'Driscolls the del lobos and the Laramie boys and so on .
The only other groups that could match the skinners level of brutality is the murfree brood and night folk but the murfree brood does it out of kinship where as the night folk just appears to be a run of the mill cult.
The lemony raiders are being excluded from this list because the bar of entry appears to only be motivated purely by race pride and heritage maybe service to the confederacy.
4
Charles said that the skinners are just passing through but it's unclear seeing as john dismantled their leadership and grounded most of the members thus dwindling down their presence in the tall trees region so one of two things could have happened they could have either moved on splinter off into smaller groups or join up with dutch that knew he was a sitting duck out in tall trees dutch scraping by out of desperation would have most likely jumped at the opportunity to be a leader once again seeing a group of angry disgruntled men with no leadership he could have easily taken the reins because at this point of time in his life senseless killings wasn't below him as seen with the senseless killings of Gloria and Heidi McCourt and god knows who else during and before his hiatus all he had to do was trade in his fine suits for some animal hides as shown in his difference in attire in both games that was done purposely he no longer had the luxury of a fine camp fresh stews and role specific members i.e enforcers loan sharks preist cooks laundry girls and entertainers he most likely relised that with the remnants of the skinners it was everyman for him self so he decided going down the road colom went which was the best option for him just surrounding your self with a bunch of dumb violent muscle to further his agenda and his necessity for survival rather than having a one on one relationship with his members getting to know them i.e Arthur john lenny sean who he viewed possibly as sons .
You see similar train of thought and transformation with the governor from the walking dead silver tounge doing anything he can to be the defacto leader through any means weather among saints or sinners just to secure power at all cost the governor went from having a prosperous town to having a band of RVs same with Dutch from having a thriving commune to a band of cutthroat renegades and sadist
So to me it's not a far fetched idea that the skinners that was more or less decimated had no leadership could have been infiltrated by Dutch that probably used his silver tounge to manipulate these violent men by just feeding into their bloodlust telling them to raid nearby towns and taking the fight to the law in addition look at the parallels between rdr and rdr2 dutch always said he's not gonna hide in a cave at the end of rdr 2 he hid in a cave and at the end of rdr he lived and died in a cave by jumping of the ledge
In conclusion maybe this time around dutch was corrupted by the remnants of the skinner brothers into being a crazed mountain man and maybe he helped them to unlock a philosophical justification to their senseless killings sort of like how micha corrupted dutch by feeding his ego and being his go to maybe dutch became micha and maybe the skinners became dutch by not fighting their nature.
But this is just my opinion
The skinners didn't have any leaders there's a reason they are called the brothers not the gang also they do have a goal they worship a deity and are trying to summon him through violence.
@@thehazyblob
There is a bounty where you capture Otis skinner he is one of if not the sole leader
@@Bushmasterghillie there isn't a real reason why it was Otis specifically they just put bounty's on random members.
@@Bushmasterghillie John can ask why Otis and the police Chief says it's because they sign off on it and that's that.The police Chief also says they have no leaders.which is why instead of the skinner gang they are called the skinner brothers.
@@thehazyblob
Not Gon deny what you said but probably the Red Dead wiki might have some contradicting information to in game dialogue
next you're going to tell me jim milton is actually just john marston
one thing that seems to be overlooked is how those bones were modeled. This was 2010 technology, meaning modeling things was waaaaaay harder than it is today. These bones are painfully obviously human femurs. The proportions match, and every detail is there. If they wanted to show that he had been eating livestock, they wouldve modeled it. This was an intentional thing rockstar did. There is no doubt in my mind those are human femurs and Dutch was a cannibal.
Kinda scary how close dutch was from john in 1907
After hearing your explanation for this it isn’t as far fetched as I imagined.
"becoming a monster and scranning people"
had me dying of laughter lmfao
In each of the missions with Dutch there are different ques of dialogue and often even alternative cutscenes where he will speak about eating people, mostly his enemies, but sometimes you can see him slip away into the night and sometimes eat people. Sometimes not.
No there isnt
Stop lying
It seems like this is just an asset re-use that can be interpreted in any number of ways. BUT, it's not the craziest theory ever. He's basically an animal by the end.
It might be a bit far fetched, but he reminds me a lot of David from the last of us. So unbelievably charismatic in the beginning, making you trust him. Although Dutch and David are different in the way that Dutch’s motive was to find a dream and support his gang, showing much more self control than David, he still manipulates Arthur like David tried to manipulate Ellie. I read a comment talking about a moment in the game where a character basically says that Arthur and Dutch’s relationship is basically ‘an orphan seduced by a gang members dream or grandeur and turned into a killer’. Dutch could very well have been using Arthur for his dream, and although not using Arthur to the extent David was trying to use Ellie, still using him.
i like the theory but it has almost no ground to stand on still like it tho
5:58
@@LoneWanderer774You clever bastard you
Dutch in the first game always reminded me a bit of Powers Boothe's portrayal of Cutly Bill in Tombstone. Just that menacing, smiling, charmer. He even wears a similar outfit to Curly Bill in that movie.
I’ll propose a secondary theory: the bones are indeed human, and Dutch did in fact eat the victim. The victim, however, was a gang member who Dutch, for one reason or another, decided to make an example of. He was always big on loyalty in RDR2, and if this gang member somehow snitched or tried to abandon Dutch, he may have decided to teach his gang the lesson of “eat or be eaten” in the most horrifying way possible. Not researched or anything, but I absolutely could see RDR1 Dutch doing that
Erectile Dysfunction??
amazing dive into both themes and practical observation like asset reuse
Finally on time to a video
Dude at 13:10 you had the perfect opportunity to say American venom!
Could you do a video on the reputation of the Van Der Linde Gang? Like an in-depth analysis of the perceptions of the public, law, other gangs, & any notable figures within the world of Red Dead Redemption.
Another thing I noticed is that Dutch could also be a wendigo or a reference to wendigos
1) his decline in mental state to or close to insanity
2) his base being in the snowy mountains, wendigos were found in the winter
3) the deer skulls and other bones surrounding his home
“There’s no way Dutch would hide out somewhere in a cave, it goes against everything he stands for”
- Arthur Morgan, Chapter 2
It's curious because if this was all RDR2 I'd say the bones were hinted during the bounty missions and then could be used as a hint in the hideout
It isn't though, it's RDR1 and while it's a great game I'm not certain it has the attention to detail for this kind of thing like RDR2 does
It certainly says a lot though that it isn't totally unbelievable
Dutch really said: man-go 😶
Perhaps he was collecting the bones like a maniac does, there are times when back then people would take their victim's bones to make decorations in their home with them.
I feel like dutch in both games are almost like 2 different people, he seemed like a madman in rdr 1 when i first played, and then when I played rdr 2 i grew to like him more until arounf the end
"Give it time. Look at the birds. Look at the beasts. Copy what the best ones do."
Skinning your enemy's horse is the ultimate sign of disrespect
Interestingly, in the mission where you escort the professor to manzanita post from his hotel so Dutch doesn't kill him, John asks Dutch why he's going after him, and Dutch replies, "I don't know, sport, I guess.". I think that that line was supposed to be more symbolic, but a more literal interpretation would be pretty revealing.
I buy it.
Its implicitly stated with the bones in Dutch's quarters, but psychologically it would make sense. Dutch is grandiose and has a strong sense of superiority to everyone else. It isnt a far fetched idea to think that Dutch wanted the rarest of a meat one could get, in the form of humans. It makes me think to the White Glove Society in New Vegas. A group with such grand and refined standards that they wish to cross the taboo of eating people merely to be in some roundabout way superior to others. Could very well be the case that Dutch much the same in his psychotic mind wanted something so outrageously taboo to somehow place himself as the superior to others he deemed below him.
A rich pallet, that cant be satisfied by just the simple things.
"Look at the Beasts... Copy what the best ones do"
Have you ever looked at the map of rdr2 and wondered? Look at blackwater, then horseshoe overlook, then look at colter. Now make note of their locations on the map. What?! First of all, what was their path of flight from blackwater that they would end up on the mountain? Second, why was that their path? And third, where were they actually headed had the mountain storm not gotten them turned around?
I dont like the music in the background i like the video but not the feeling i get watching it
I love the newspaper descriptions of what happened to the gang