Perfect opening line "Unless you can prove your doing track speed, you get a street set-up". This vid makes so much sense to what I'm seeing on my bikes at different track days when I slow down towards the end of the day due to fitness.
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. So glad you mention this. I suffer from it too. Also I have the same problem when I have to slow down to ride with friends in the B group. Need a second bike for that, like a Ducati Diavel.
Glad I'm not the only one :-) Keep up the great work on the intros and editing Dave, your humour and vermin hunting cats make the channel all the more valuable.
even after 4 decades racing ,now doin track days (now i'm an old man lol) i'm still learning a lot VIA the science you're providing trough out your channel. i wish you a great 2020 year MR MOSS. your videos confort me into my beliefs that the suspension and tires are the most crucial parts for safe and fast lap times.
This happened to me on the road actually. After my first track day I improved on my trail braking and riding position a lot. Last week sold my Gsxr 750 k4 and bought MV F3 800. While riding the bike home I’ve noticed my front it’s too soft and my shock too stiff . For a first time I will attempt to change suspension settings, thanks to watching plenty of your videos. Here in Scotland there’s plenty of bumpy and great roads. Got few wobbles even without pushing the bike. Ordered steering damper but not going to install until I improve the setup and lesser the pressure I apply on my bars 🤩
I finished testing my F3 800 with 15w oil in the compression leg and 5w oil in the rebound leg. Shock settings changed once the oil switch was done. That was the most positive change I made to the forks. Still stock springs, still OEM geometry.
So happy to have found your channel. Hate to admit it but I've put 50K miles on my FZ8 without realizing it's almost fully adjustable suspension. Playing with it after watching your videos it feels like a new bike. Thanks man!
Thanks for watching and taking the content to create a better handling FZ8 for now. With fresh suspension oil, it will get better again! A tip of the hat to you!
Dave still getting it glad he still rides and keeps his awesome skill up as much as he can stand or has time for we all get older and never know how bad we miss the youth years till you just cannot do that anymore I am in that spot where I am noticing that my body just won't do things it used to and it sucks ass lol keep up the great work and teaching Dave
When you do get to the track, talk to people and find a person that you resonate with for language and concepts. Talk more to confirm this is the case. Then see how they communicate with you after one track session. If there is a good rapport, continue on for a month and if still positive, go for one year and stick with that coach.
Thank YOU ALL - for the explanations and bringing me a mere mortal up to speed. Tuning on a 68 Tiger Triumph - was just making sure the air vent for the front brakes was not blocked. Trust me - I drove - like everyone - was going to kill me. Only once did I ever toss the anchor off the pillion - to ensure I stopped. Something about a Ton - and where it was. I guess that 6' in front of a 69 Camaro - and me being in front of them off the light, Well - the cornflakes were yellow - must have been the whiz I dumped Last incarnation - was an 82 Kawa 750 Twin. That little note twin adds a whole can of whoop-ass to what ever you do. I spent 6 months looking over torque charts, vs rpm. Then using software on a gear cutter site. Well - I dropped the running gear by 3500 rpm. Evil Jimmie comes out - and I look over - one thing, what gear ratio gives me max RPM. - Max Torque. I hit it. Bike went to 55mph - IMP, most any day. On days when I held the beast back - well I got 55 mph. That was my best work. And I had a series that crested as 67mpg - accelerating while I had the throttle all closed. Cheers!
Good day to you. Thank you for the video; I'm still trying to wrap my head around how to setup my bike. I have an idea and I'm not afraid to tinker with the settings, looking forward to riding on a new setup.
Junky suspension back in the day was also called character.drilling damper rods different springs and a witches brew of different oil weights were the name of the day. And man! What a great feeling when it was set up right back then!.
Another piece of the puzzle gets understandable, Can you 2 Dave\s do a similar video on compresson, i still need to get a better understanding of compression tire wear.
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Yes, starting Friday and then even more specifically to compression, rebound, etc later in the month and into April.
Dave Moss Tuning sounds good mr. Bookbinder. the new videos where you do comparions and explanations, is the best videos you guys have made so far, ohh and now that i have you, i have tried to do the comments on davemoss.com but i get an error. (No big deal but now you know)
I am literally amazed that you can know that from looking at a tire. My god, where do you normally ride Dave? I am doing my first track day here soon in SoCal.
Awesome clip yet again, can't believe ice never heard about you Dave until a random 'next play 'on my TH-cam on phone last weekend. Will be telling all the bikers I meet up with about your channel fella! 👍🏍😎 keep up the awesome work, & media content #BOOOOOM
I'm grateful to be "found" so you can leverage all the information we have posted. Thank you for paying it forward and helping me with my mission of saving a life every day via education and training.
Now I'm curious as to if going to a new track would require a new suspension setup or if your freshly dialed in setup would work wherever and only need to be "tuned up" with time... Awesome vids. Thanks for posting.
Set up for a Novice rider will last 4-7 track days based on their pace irrespective of track. Once you get to intermediate, different settings for forks will be needed between fast tracks and tight. technical braking configurations. Every 4-6 track days, rebound damping should be evaluated for chassis stability.
In the first two minutes you taught me something significant! In two days I have watched close to 30 videos and am amazed. I am a new rider of about three months but am trying to slowly increase my speed and lean in corners on the streets so I don't always have a car up my ass, as well as enjoying the corners a tonne more! Well, I went out to check my tyres and noticed just before the sidewall that it had that shiny clean look to the tyre, as well as some kind of white paint look which confused me. This makes sense as my tyres stipulate 42 psi (cold) on front and back and I have been doing as it says. If you are riding around on the street but enjoy the occasional near knee to the ground on tight bends whilst going quite slow (i.e. 50km/h), how far should you reduce the psi under recommendations? Also, my bike (MT03) does not allow for changing fork suspension at all which is a shame because it is so incredibly stiff but I can adjust preload on the shock absorber - which to be honest is quite confusing after watching your video and comparing it to my bike as it all moves in one motion and is quite bouncy only having one setting - but I am going to adjust the spring preload and harden the suspension a tiny bit. The only thing that worries me is that driving highway speeds especially increasing revs, despite holding the handles rather loosely, every bump that isn't even noticeable on the road transfers right into my wrists which is a major pain! P.S. you are ripping at the track!
I wish there was a little bit more time spoken about setup which is what I requested on the search engine thanks anyway I’m trying to work out pre-load dampening on my new r1
Start with stock settings, then go +/- a same amount to see how much travel you use with the forks. That will give you direction. Same will be true of static sag in the rear. Once you set spring tension, set rebound and start with compression at 50% of the total range.
This makes me question, why aren't they electric. Should not be difficult to chocke a small opening depending on the speed and or vibration and temperature etc.
From my journey as a group 1 track day beginner, to ending up winning an amateur championship a few years later, all on the same bike, I went up three spring rates on my rear shock and had it revalved once.
Dave Moss Tuning Thanks. You’ve actually tuned my bike before a long time ago. I’m trying to figure out what to race next year. Likely doing twins cup. May get a Kramer Evo2. Have you tuned one of those?
Fork oil will work for 30,000 miles, it is how much do you want to use old oil. The loner you go the bigger differential in cold to hot viscosity. For a chart, just Google fork oil viscosity - you will find all you need.
@@catalystreactionsbw thank you sir. Just bought an MT10 and would like to tune the suspensions myslef, thanks to your videos. I'd like to know which content is more suitable for me to get this done and understand what i'm doing (complete noob). Thanks in advance! And keep it up
Everyone is looking at HP, a new exaust etc etc, but the only important things are tyre and suspensions. Dave are you going to visit italy? I need help 😅
When Dave Moss checks the front rebound he says to do it with the front brake on, this produces a lot of fore/aft movement and the fuel in the tank will slosh backwards and forwards giving a false impression, am I right? My rebound settings are completely different from brake on and brake off and brake off is more realistic.
I set my preload for heavier weight than I currently am, so about 20 mm on sag. so I can get greater ground clearance / increased ride height. And then I make compression to be soft and increase compression for fast speed like canyon carving. Rebound setting is always at middle. I'm afraid I'm doing it wrong because sag is not correct but is there anyway I maintain my current sag/ride height for the setup that match my pace?
DMT Remote Tune Process Below is all the information you need to know about re process and payment and requests for information that I need in the form of answers and pictures. Please let me know your location so we can manage time differences (if any) compared to California. Scheduling can be done after the questions are answered and I have the information needed to be prepared for the direction that you would like to take. Also let me know if you want to leverage email or video. Options: $40 for settings via email $80 for video 1-1 in a 30 minute block (Skype, Facetime, WhatsApp) Payment: PayPal or Venmo using this email: dave@davemosstuning.com Zelle using this number: 5034496202 Square - I email you an invoice that you can pay with your debit card • Please share the payment method used and the date of payment so I can track it. Questions: 1. Year, make and model of motorcycle 2. Your weight without gear 3. Miles or kms on the odometer 4. Changes from stock for gearing, weight loss and engine power 5. OEM forks or modified - if so how? 6. OEM shock(s) or modified - if so how 7. Last fork oil service 8. Last shock oil service 9. Brand model and sizes of tires 10. Type of use: commute, weekend, aggressive, some track Pictures: - Front tyre - Rear tyre - Rear axle position in the swing arm - Upper triple clamp showing how much fork is above it The answers to the questions provide me with the insight that I need in order to be able to help you accurately with settings Thank you for the opportunity to work with you and for the payment.
I live in florida its pretty much always hot with very high humidity I was wondering what yall think I should have my tire pressure at I've read some forms and people have said 32 32 front and rear I definitely need to find someone that can help set my suspension up its very stiff
Hot air measures 2-4psi more than cold dense air. In FL you would be 36 minimum due to heat AND humidity. I can help you if you have tools via Remote Tuning using video. Takes 30 minutes and the bike is set up. If you want more details, email me dave@davemosstuning.com
Great vid Dave as usual, noticed that you have Diablo Rosso Corsa tyres fitted. Do you prefer these to the supercorsa? If you use them I guess they are more than good enough for the track. I’m due for a new set of tyres but ride 50/50 street and track, would the Rosso’s be ok for that? Thanks
Dave Moss Tuning That’s true, most tyres are very good now. Also another question about tyres, I’m a really light rider (60ish kilos with riding gear) would that affect the rating of the tyre I should choose eg- an h rated tyre over a z rated one or Would it make no difference? I’m thinking maybe I wouldn’t have the weight to warm the tyres properly if they’re too stiff? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks Dave
9:15 why do you add preload for faster riding? Is that correct? Where can i find info or a video clip explaining all of that? Is it bc it makes the suspension react faster therefore handling the speed better? I can see that... What's the best way i can learn and figure all this stuff out for me?
Im 5'8 175lbs ..I hope going from a 6.3kg spring to a 9.4 (racetech n ohlins rep advice) wont ruin my setup. I have .9 upfront and run hard but in slower group ( 2 track days ) . I think you told me before that 9.4 is the right direction. Would a stock srad shock compensate if its too stiff? 3w oil in rear
Spring is 8 inches, ive never tinkered w it myself cus i dont fully understand, but i noticed before w my 6.3kg spring that im getting a rubber build up on the rear edge of the tread, not the front of it but rear edge.
Preload and compression are a team. They should be roughly the same for total range in general. When you get to 70% of total range to maximum at 100%, more oil, fresh oil, slightly thicker oil are cheaper alternatives to springs. th-cam.com/video/vqN2Vk_qnG4/w-d-xo.html
How to set up when the front have normal forks and the back habe high and low speed. We are talking about a Sport touring bike that weights 300kg. My static at the back seems pretty large. I have a Wilbers 640 at the back and progressive springs at front. When I sit on the bike it goes down more at the back. Should I level my bike? I have noticed that the bike does not respond quite well when I drive little bit faster on curves. When static is at the back too much, should I raise spring at the back or just leave it and then set on 22 clicks(closed)and than open one by one until I find proper settings for my riding style.
If the bike does sink more in the rear then yes, you should level it up with more compression and spring tension. Make sure that rebound is not causing that by itself. Look at your shock travel - is it at maximum?
@@catalystreactionsbw Dave, thanks for your prompt answer.The spring tensioner is at maximum. I wrote on your another video that I have found a solution. A have static 30mm front and at the back 35mm. The spring is at 16 mm and I have set both Hi and Low at 22 (closed)clicks and then did both 3 clicks counter clockwise which means I am at 18 clicks both. Back suspension was Hi 15 and low 12so it was pretty bad felling. Now it is a totall different story. The bike rides perfect when I ride now agressive, but on the long trips it is a bit to stiff but much more stabile on high speed. I feel at 18 clicks both Hi and Low, the back is bouncing(droping) more forward when I brake but stability is way better. I have enough negative sag, so you can push and pull some bit up at the back. But to be honest, 300kg bike needs time to get to use to the weight, it is nothing like a sport bike. I just got my Honda ST1300 2 weeks ago. Cheers
@@catalystreactionsbw The spring is set at maximum, 18 clicks Hi and Low. The front is pretty much good, no setting but progressive springs do their job at the front(no bouncing back like stock) pretty solid state. This setting is factory and is probably set trough manufacturer and the first owner data( 1pilion or 2, and weight of rider which I dont know because I'm 3rd owner). P.S. I just did spring tensioner 6 clicks, so the negative sag when I pull up is much smaller. I'm gonna try in the morning how the bike responds when spring tensioner is reduced and combine with Low and High because I have noticed that the forks at front are diving more. When I sit on the bike it drops just a little bit faster at the back, but looking at your video it should drop at the same rate and bounce back, am I correct? Thanks
@@catalystreactionsbw Update, the schock tensioner was open at max. Clockwise tensioner turned to 16 clicks (22 max) and now I have another bike. Just to adjust Hi and Low at around13- 15clicks . The bike act now like it should be, I am not going wide in corner at higher pace. The tyres are Dunlop Roadsmart. I also noticed due to bad setting my front tyre was always colder even when hitting corners at higher pace. I relly want to thank you on posting your videos on YT. As a hobby mechanic I really never was interested with shocks, now using these knoweldge I can help another people to make their riding even safer. Thanks a lot mate✌ Cheers
@@The_Touring_Jedi Thank you for leveraging our content to help you and your motorcycle but more importantly, pay it forward and therefore help me in my mission of saving a life every day!
I will be back in CA Friday (traveling from NZ) and at Thunderhill Saturday through Sunday. We can schedule something in the evening. Please send me an email to dave@davemosstuning.com with remote tuning BW in the subject line.
So when you bottom out the forks you add preload. And by adding preload to the forks you also always add preload to the shock so the bike stays balanced or not?
@@PedroGLeitao Not necessarily. Preload helps keep you off bottom and compression control the speed of descent. That controls the area of the fork you use. Remember that stock springs are progressive so the ride height on the forks will not suddenly be higher.
If my static and rider sag are golden - but I’m bottoming out. Should I start by adding compression? Or preload as well? But adding preload will mess up my sag numbers.
Dave I was wondering how you set up a motorcycle for a rider for there riding style I ask because I was thinking about an article I read it was Team Suzuki with Matt Mladin and Aron Yates where they switched bikes and nether one could ride the others bike at any kind of decent pace. Is there a point in setting up a motorcycle where one would deviate from the "standard" way of setting up a bike so the bike feels better for there style of riding? If so could a video be made to touch on this point?
Hey please talk about high viscous oil for forks....so please let me know that for agressive riding hi viscous oil will help or not...Many thanks in advance ;D ;)) cheers !! :)
High viscous oil only works in damping rod fork (15w to 30w). For cartridge and big piston forks, the oil has to travel through much smaller holes so we generally stay 10w or less.
@@catalystreactionsbw ok so I'm thinking that being I'm consistently a fast rider for the streets, that its better to have suspension setup for high speeds and will still be fine even on days I may be taking it slow albeit just not too comfortable which I dont mind; and which that would be better than having a comfortably slow suspension setting which would NOT be adequate for high speed rides. That being that the suspension wouldn't be reacting fast enough for the bumps and dips in the road. I like to ride very aggressively. That seem about accurate?
Dave, you've setup 2 of my bikes before, both with stock suspension and they've always worked great. Now my new(to me) bike is a 2013 r1, stock suspension. I notice that it bottoms out no matter what adjustments I make to them. Even just riding around in the pits and hitting the brakes. Could it be a faulty install by the "mechanic" who rebuilt the forks?
Ask the mechanic exactly what they did and what they used. The real test is simply riding the bike to see how much travel you use normally. Then add 50% of the total range of preload and compression and test again. If you bottom again, go to 75%. If you bottom again then I would want to have the forks checked. If you weight over 220lbs or 100kg, your weight may be a factor.
@@catalystreactionsbw ha thx. Kind of a curse. I notice everything everywhere. Eye for detail and dissecting movies and videos to the point of ocd for usually worthless points. I'm gonna say this 1 more time here for sake of not wasting your time clicking every video just to read redundant shit, so thanks again for all your responses and answers, in future as well. You take the time to answer questions, that's awesome. Incredible how much I've already learned and pieced together stuff i always wondered. Your videos are very educational and I do my part by sharing them with other riders.
Hi Dave, I have just bought a Suzuki GSXR 750 K8 track bike...the bike is quite difficult to turn requiring a concerted effort on the bars..then when it turns it drops into the corner so quick i have to lift it again to make the corner. Have you any idea why it’s like this?
Most of my time is spent in California. I do travel all over the world teaching throughout the year. I can help you via our remote tuning program of video conferencing 1-1.
It is utterly mystfying pain the butt to even think about! DAMN I dont want to have to be a suspension geek! It's like either I learn all this stuff or drive hours to get to someone to do it for me. If you ask me it is sounding more and more to me like it is high time for suspension technology to step up to the plate and basically end this nightmare1 We have such good computing these days and sensors so at the very minimum bike manufacturers ought to be able to at least TELL the rider what needs to be changed and how! How hard would it be to have travel sensors front and rear? Easily done and tire temperature alsong with tire pressure? simple as installying sensors that transmit Now on a high end bike couple these with a bikes ability to adjust damping on the fly (which of course already exists) and also ride height and/or preload/ I dont see any of this being a big problem and with scale of mass production it could be really reasonable expecially for the lower end that simply has the computer recommending adjustments ukat=y done whining,,,,,already sorry U did bir buy rgw MT10 SP ..,,I opted instead to save $4k by the tune I COULD get a deal on the standard MT10 but on the SP they would not budge past 19500 otd sigh ,,,,,but on the bright side I have the extra funds to invest in the bike....I am thinking forged wheels! and maybe a high end shock although all I do is ride the twistiess so maybe it is wasted money. I just love to be able to keep up with a lot of younger riders on sportbikes anyway I can sa safely do so which mainly via practice riding the same sections of road over and over. The power of the 10 seems to help me overcome some slowness caused ny lack of corner commitment with raw acceleration from corner to corner ....it amazes me how many better riders I can keep up with this style,,,,they are smoother using less hard braking and acceleration so we are like yo yo spacing where they gain on me and then I catch right back up rinse and repeat over and over....I know suspension is one of the big things thwarting my commitment but for now safety is paramount
For the rear shock you need heavier oil viscosity and the correct spring (you may be perfect based on weight), so a shock oil service might be all that is needed. I can mail you settings for $40 that you install and have all you need for handling other than sensors :). Good points that in time, bikes may well become automatic and we just get to point them in the direction we want to go.
@@catalystreactionsbw thank you for the reply Dave. I have been riding my MT10 feeling like the rear shock is compressing my spine lol, having a hard time feeling changes even when I max my settings on either end, watching your videos trying to apply the methods.
@@bobjones6468 Cable tie on the fork and a little grease on the shock shaft will tell you if you are bottoming. Let your eyes validate this rather than you "think" it is. Quick, simple, accurate data.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
Perfect opening line "Unless you can prove your doing track speed, you get a street set-up". This vid makes so much sense to what I'm seeing on my bikes at different track days when I slow down towards the end of the day due to fitness.
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. So glad you mention this. I suffer from it too. Also I have the same problem when I have to slow down to ride with friends in the B group. Need a second bike for that, like a Ducati Diavel.
Glad I'm not the only one :-)
Keep up the great work on the intros and editing Dave, your humour and vermin hunting cats make the channel all the more valuable.
even after 4 decades racing ,now doin track days (now i'm an old man lol) i'm still learning a lot VIA the science you're providing trough out your channel. i wish you a great 2020 year MR MOSS. your videos confort me into my beliefs that the suspension and tires are the most crucial parts for safe and fast lap times.
Thank you for your words of wisdom Sylvianne. I appreciate you leveraging our content for positive growth for yourself and your bikes.
Excellent video Dave. Thanks for all your help and education over the years, truly priceless!
Thank you for taking advantage of it and putting it to use!
love watching Dave work the bike suspensions. I cant get enough of this.
This happened to me on the road actually. After my first track day I improved on my trail braking and riding position a lot. Last week sold my Gsxr 750 k4 and bought MV F3 800. While riding the bike home I’ve noticed my front it’s too soft and my shock too stiff . For a first time I will attempt to change suspension settings, thanks to watching plenty of your videos. Here in Scotland there’s plenty of bumpy and great roads. Got few wobbles even without pushing the bike. Ordered steering damper but not going to install until I improve the setup and lesser the pressure I apply on my bars 🤩
I finished testing my F3 800 with 15w oil in the compression leg and 5w oil in the rebound leg. Shock settings changed once the oil switch was done. That was the most positive change I made to the forks. Still stock springs, still OEM geometry.
So happy to have found your channel. Hate to admit it but I've put 50K miles on my FZ8 without realizing it's almost fully adjustable suspension. Playing with it after watching your videos it feels like a new bike. Thanks man!
Thanks for watching and taking the content to create a better handling FZ8 for now. With fresh suspension oil, it will get better again! A tip of the hat to you!
Thank you for re-reading this is seriously important to safety. All about the suspension
Dave still getting it glad he still rides and keeps his awesome skill up as much as he can stand or has time for we all get older and never know how bad we miss the youth years till you just cannot do that anymore I am in that spot where I am noticing that my body just won't do things it used to and it sucks ass lol keep up the great work and teaching Dave
thumbs up for the excellent sound effects @ 10:17
Sounds exactly like that!
No wonder coaches play a big role in any sport. This guy has the knowledge and practice, I hope theres one like that if I ever hit the track.
When you do get to the track, talk to people and find a person that you resonate with for language and concepts. Talk more to confirm this is the case. Then see how they communicate with you after one track session. If there is a good rapport, continue on for a month and if still positive, go for one year and stick with that coach.
Thank YOU ALL - for the explanations and bringing me a mere mortal up to speed. Tuning on a 68 Tiger Triumph - was just making sure the air vent for the front brakes was not blocked. Trust me - I drove - like everyone - was going to kill me. Only once did I ever toss the anchor off the pillion - to ensure I stopped. Something about a Ton - and where it was. I guess that 6' in front of a 69 Camaro - and me being in front of them off the light, Well - the cornflakes were yellow - must have been the whiz I dumped
Last incarnation - was an 82 Kawa 750 Twin. That little note twin adds a whole can of whoop-ass to what ever you do. I spent 6 months looking over torque charts, vs rpm. Then using software on a gear cutter site. Well - I dropped the running gear by 3500 rpm.
Evil Jimmie comes out - and I look over - one thing, what gear ratio gives me max RPM. - Max Torque. I hit it.
Bike went to 55mph - IMP, most any day. On days when I held the beast back - well I got 55 mph. That was my best work. And I had a series that crested as 67mpg - accelerating while I had the throttle all closed.
Cheers!
Bought F3-800..and I think and feel the suspension need to be reset up to fit my novice skill level..Thanks Dave and to your partner.
Yes, it does need a set up. I have the same bike and love the difference it made when i put the first settings in that were different to stock.
Thanks Dave🤝😁..will seek your professional advice..
Good day to you. Thank you for the video; I'm still trying to wrap my head around how to setup my bike. I have an idea and I'm not afraid to tinker with the settings, looking forward to riding on a new setup.
Junky suspension back in the day was also called character.drilling damper rods different springs and a witches brew of different oil weights were the name of the day. And man! What a great feeling when it was set up right back then!.
Still the same process today with any damping rod forks. Alchemy is flourishing :)
Agreed your videos are getting much better, including the 10:17 was funny
That blues at the end baby!! Love you guys, I always rewatch the free bees!
We Need someone like Moss in Germany. My Suspension from my Benelli TNT need‘s too get Fixed!
ja ich wüsste hier auch niemanden der mir das so gut wie er es kann weiterhelfen kann :(
I’m sure there’s plenty of good guys.
Another piece of the puzzle gets understandable, Can you 2 Dave\s do a similar video on compresson, i still need to get a better understanding of compression tire wear.
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Yes, starting Friday and then even more specifically to compression, rebound, etc later in the month and into April.
Dave Moss Tuning sounds good mr. Bookbinder. the new videos where you do comparions and explanations, is the best videos you guys have made so far, ohh and now that i have you, i have tried to do the comments on davemoss.com but i get an error. (No big deal but now you know)
No I wish I bought the monster 821 stripe and not the standard hahahaha. Great video. Subscribed.
I am literally amazed that you can know that from looking at a tire. My god, where do you normally ride Dave? I am doing my first track day here soon in SoCal.
Very Cool videos,just wanna say Thanks man
I’m lucky Jammie James works on my FJR n makes it all good for this old man to Ride !!
From Cajun Country
Awesome clip yet again, can't believe ice never heard about you Dave until a random 'next play 'on my TH-cam on phone last weekend. Will be telling all the bikers I meet up with about your channel fella! 👍🏍😎 keep up the awesome work, & media content #BOOOOOM
I'm grateful to be "found" so you can leverage all the information we have posted. Thank you for paying it forward and helping me with my mission of saving a life every day via education and training.
Now I'm curious as to if going to a new track would require a new suspension setup or if your freshly dialed in setup would work wherever and only need to be "tuned up" with time...
Awesome vids. Thanks for posting.
Set up for a Novice rider will last 4-7 track days based on their pace irrespective of track. Once you get to intermediate, different settings for forks will be needed between fast tracks and tight. technical braking configurations. Every 4-6 track days, rebound damping should be evaluated for chassis stability.
Best YTB channel ever. Period.
Thank you! That is humbling and also received with great pride.
In the first two minutes you taught me something significant! In two days I have watched close to 30 videos and am amazed. I am a new rider of about three months but am trying to slowly increase my speed and lean in corners on the streets so I don't always have a car up my ass, as well as enjoying the corners a tonne more! Well, I went out to check my tyres and noticed just before the sidewall that it had that shiny clean look to the tyre, as well as some kind of white paint look which confused me. This makes sense as my tyres stipulate 42 psi (cold) on front and back and I have been doing as it says.
If you are riding around on the street but enjoy the occasional near knee to the ground on tight bends whilst going quite slow (i.e. 50km/h), how far should you reduce the psi under recommendations? Also, my bike (MT03) does not allow for changing fork suspension at all which is a shame because it is so incredibly stiff but I can adjust preload on the shock absorber - which to be honest is quite confusing after watching your video and comparing it to my bike as it all moves in one motion and is quite bouncy only having one setting - but I am going to adjust the spring preload and harden the suspension a tiny bit. The only thing that worries me is that driving highway speeds especially increasing revs, despite holding the handles rather loosely, every bump that isn't even noticeable on the road transfers right into my wrists which is a major pain!
P.S. you are ripping at the track!
th-cam.com/video/XaIuWKfnGEI/w-d-xo.html
Great explanation, it makes perfect sense. Thanks
Will be there in 2 years and I will ask for Dave. Great vid
I wish there was a little bit more time spoken about setup which is what I requested on the search engine thanks anyway I’m trying to work out pre-load dampening on my new r1
Start with stock settings, then go +/- a same amount to see how much travel you use with the forks. That will give you direction. Same will be true of static sag in the rear. Once you set spring tension, set rebound and start with compression at 50% of the total range.
awesome video definitely gained a lot of knowledge from this.
This makes me question, why aren't they electric. Should not be difficult to chocke a small opening depending on the speed and or vibration and temperature etc.
Many are. There's also ferromagnetic fluid that changes viscosity in real time. This video is about the basics.
@@loomspace Oh wow cool.
Great video and explanations . Thx Enjoyed it much
Yep. My car is very stiff at low speeds, but at higher speeds it's MUCH smoother.
From my journey as a group 1 track day beginner, to ending up winning an amateur championship a few years later, all on the same bike, I went up three spring rates on my rear shock and had it revalved once.
Congrats on your success and thanks for sharing your progression.
Dave Moss Tuning Thanks. You’ve actually tuned my bike before a long time ago.
I’m trying to figure out what to race next year. Likely doing twins cup. May get a Kramer Evo2. Have you tuned one of those?
Dave...what is the lifetime for forkoil...is there a maximum to use..?and where is to find what viscosity of oil is used bij every brand motor?
Fork oil will work for 30,000 miles, it is how much do you want to use old oil. The loner you go the bigger differential in cold to hot viscosity. For a chart, just Google fork oil viscosity - you will find all you need.
ALMOST 100K SUBS. Love your vids guys! Learning a ton.
Thank you very much - huge milestone to get there and appreciate all the subscribers like yourself that make this milestone.
@@catalystreactionsbw thank you sir. Just bought an MT10 and would like to tune the suspensions myslef, thanks to your videos. I'd like to know which content is more suitable for me to get this done and understand what i'm doing (complete noob). Thanks in advance! And keep it up
@@f0sterPlays This video first as the forks need to go to line #3 from stock at line #1: th-cam.com/video/5o6V8ST72i0/w-d-xo.html
@@f0sterPlays Shock static sag: th-cam.com/video/3FeZJRiAXRk/w-d-xo.html
@@f0sterPlays for rebound damping this works: th-cam.com/video/Q1r10TcUpaw/w-d-xo.html
Excellent video! Thanks!
Everyone is looking at HP, a new exaust etc etc, but the only important things are tyre and suspensions.
Dave are you going to visit italy? I need help 😅
Where are you in Italy?
@@catalystreactionsbw hey Dave , in Italy I keep my bike in Fano, along the Adriatic coast.
It’d be great to have you set up my new ST1200rs!!
@@PilotGigi Happy to help you via Remote Tuning and video 1-1 to make sure you have the right settings in the 1200 :)
When do you visit some european tracks dave, i would need your skills sir :)
Where are you located?
@@catalystreactionsbw Southern Germany 😐
Class trip to spa in Belgium! Ill buy my tickets! That would be the greatest day of my life lmao.
When Dave Moss checks the front rebound he says to do it with the front brake on, this produces a lot of fore/aft movement and the fuel in the tank will slosh backwards and forwards giving a false impression, am I right? My rebound settings are completely different from brake on and brake off and brake off is more realistic.
You can do this any way you choose and then review tire wear for confirmation. Thanks getting this essential task done!
Your videos are awesome, just subscribed.
We appreciate the kind words. Enjoy the content and thanks for subscribing!
I set my preload for heavier weight than I currently am, so about 20 mm on sag. so I can get greater ground clearance / increased ride height. And then I make compression to be soft and increase compression for fast speed like canyon carving. Rebound setting is always at middle. I'm afraid I'm doing it wrong because sag is not correct but is there anyway I maintain my current sag/ride height for the setup that match my pace?
Yeh imm going through rear tyres like there's no tomorrow...need a set up .... street
DMT Remote Tune Process
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Scheduling can be done after the questions are answered and I have the information needed to be prepared for the direction that you would like to take. Also let me know if you want to leverage email or video.
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Questions:
1. Year, make and model of motorcycle
2. Your weight without gear
3. Miles or kms on the odometer
4. Changes from stock for gearing, weight loss and engine power
5. OEM forks or modified - if so how?
6. OEM shock(s) or modified - if so how
7. Last fork oil service
8. Last shock oil service
9. Brand model and sizes of tires
10. Type of use: commute, weekend, aggressive, some track
Pictures:
- Front tyre
- Rear tyre
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The answers to the questions provide me with the insight that I need in order to be able to help you accurately with settings
Thank you for the opportunity to work with you and for the payment.
I live in florida its pretty much always hot with very high humidity I was wondering what yall think I should have my tire pressure at I've read some forms and people have said 32 32 front and rear I definitely need to find someone that can help set my suspension up its very stiff
Hot air measures 2-4psi more than cold dense air. In FL you would be 36 minimum due to heat AND humidity. I can help you if you have tools via Remote Tuning using video. Takes 30 minutes and the bike is set up. If you want more details, email me dave@davemosstuning.com
Great vid Dave as usual, noticed that you have Diablo Rosso Corsa tyres fitted. Do you prefer these to the supercorsa? If you use them I guess they are more than good enough for the track. I’m due for a new set of tyres but ride 50/50 street and track, would the Rosso’s be ok for that? Thanks
Rosso's are great for the track especially with a 50/50 balance of road and track. We are in a golden age of tires!
Dave Moss Tuning That’s true, most tyres are very good now. Also another question about tyres, I’m a really light rider (60ish kilos with riding gear) would that affect the rating of the tyre I should choose eg- an h rated tyre over a z rated one or Would it make no difference? I’m thinking maybe I wouldn’t have the weight to warm the tyres properly if they’re too stiff? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks Dave
9:15 why do you add preload for faster riding? Is that correct? Where can i find info or a video clip explaining all of that? Is it bc it makes the suspension react faster therefore handling the speed better? I can see that...
What's the best way i can learn and figure all this stuff out for me?
th-cam.com/users/CatalystReactionSBWsearch?query=fork+preload
If you’re 105 kg, no matter how slow you are, the suspension is likely going to be too soft for you on any stock sport bike, I’d imagine?
Depends on the suspension components and what springs are provided in the forks and shock. Getting a tape measure on it will reveal all :)
I’m assuming that’s the 675 triple MV?
800 F3
I dont quite understand, if you are breaking harder do you add compression damping or preload? or both?
Love these videos
Im 5'8 175lbs ..I hope going from a 6.3kg spring to a 9.4 (racetech n ohlins rep advice) wont ruin my setup. I have .9 upfront and run hard but in slower group ( 2 track days ) . I think you told me before that 9.4 is the right direction. Would a stock srad shock compensate if its too stiff? 3w oil in rear
Remember that the installed preload calculations have to be done correctly for spring and spacer combined in length.
Spring is 8 inches, ive never tinkered w it myself cus i dont fully understand, but i noticed before w my 6.3kg spring that im getting a rubber build up on the rear edge of the tread, not the front of it but rear edge.
@@DmanGuitar327rear edge is the tire getting too hot due to under inflation
@@catalystreactionsbw oh okay. Yeah i was using q3 plus and i was running 27 hot in the rear
Youre the man. Thx dave, ill try 28 29 hot next time, but ittl b w 9.4kg rear spring.
Would added compression damping help when you're out of pre load? When you're bottoming out the front fork
Preload and compression are a team. They should be roughly the same for total range in general. When you get to 70% of total range to maximum at 100%, more oil, fresh oil, slightly thicker oil are cheaper alternatives to springs. th-cam.com/video/vqN2Vk_qnG4/w-d-xo.html
If you can find me better suspension for my 1992 xj400 diversion I will get it
Springs and fork oil for the forks, then look into replacement shocks: www.teknikmotorsport.com › replacement-shocks
CB1000R.. my weight 's 62 kg.
How can i setting My bike, pls. Recommended.
I can help you via remote tuning so email me dave@davemosstuning.com. Cost si $40 for email settings.
How to set up when the front have normal forks and the back habe high and low speed. We are talking about a Sport touring bike that weights 300kg. My static at the back seems pretty large. I have a Wilbers 640 at the back and progressive springs at front. When I sit on the bike it goes down more at the back. Should I level my bike? I have noticed that the bike does not respond quite well when I drive little bit faster on curves. When static is at the back too much, should I raise spring at the back or just leave it and then set on 22 clicks(closed)and than open one by one until I find proper settings for my riding style.
If the bike does sink more in the rear then yes, you should level it up with more compression and spring tension. Make sure that rebound is not causing that by itself. Look at your shock travel - is it at maximum?
@@catalystreactionsbw Dave, thanks for your prompt answer.The spring tensioner is at maximum. I wrote on your another video that I have found a solution. A have static 30mm front and at the back 35mm. The spring is at 16 mm and I have set both Hi and Low at 22 (closed)clicks and then did both 3 clicks counter clockwise which means I am at 18 clicks both. Back suspension was Hi 15 and low 12so it was pretty bad felling. Now it is a totall different story. The bike rides perfect when I ride now agressive, but on the long trips it is a bit to stiff but much more stabile on high speed. I feel at 18 clicks both Hi and Low, the back is bouncing(droping) more forward when I brake but stability is way better. I have enough negative sag, so you can push and pull some bit up at the back. But to be honest, 300kg bike needs time to get to use to the weight, it is nothing like a sport bike. I just got my Honda ST1300 2 weeks ago. Cheers
@@catalystreactionsbw The spring is set at maximum, 18 clicks Hi and Low. The front is pretty much good, no setting but progressive springs do their job at the front(no bouncing back like stock) pretty solid state.
This setting is factory and is probably set trough manufacturer and the first owner data( 1pilion or 2, and weight of rider which I dont know because I'm 3rd owner).
P.S. I just did spring tensioner 6 clicks, so the negative sag when I pull up is much smaller. I'm gonna try in the morning how the bike responds when spring tensioner is reduced and combine with Low and High because I have noticed that the forks at front are diving more. When I sit on the bike it drops just a little bit faster at the back, but looking at your video it should drop at the same rate and bounce back, am I correct? Thanks
@@catalystreactionsbw Update, the schock tensioner was open at max. Clockwise tensioner turned to 16 clicks (22 max) and now I have another bike. Just to adjust Hi and Low at around13- 15clicks . The bike act now like it should be, I am not going wide in corner at higher pace. The tyres are Dunlop Roadsmart. I also noticed due to bad setting my front tyre was always colder even when hitting corners at higher pace.
I relly want to thank you on posting your videos on YT. As a hobby mechanic I really never was interested with shocks, now using these knoweldge I can help another people to make their riding even safer. Thanks a lot mate✌ Cheers
@@The_Touring_Jedi Thank you for leveraging our content to help you and your motorcycle but more importantly, pay it forward and therefore help me in my mission of saving a life every day!
thanks...now i have to upgrade the suspension on my mt10 just because 😂
Just the shock for a revalve, respring not needed. Forks are generally okay :)
Dave, how do I schedule a remote suspension tune? I will be riding at Buttonwillow this Monday and unfortunately you won't be there :/
I will be back in CA Friday (traveling from NZ) and at Thunderhill Saturday through Sunday. We can schedule something in the evening. Please send me an email to dave@davemosstuning.com with remote tuning BW in the subject line.
So when you bottom out the forks you add preload. And by adding preload to the forks you also always add preload to the shock so the bike stays balanced or not?
You only adjust the fork preload and compression for bottom out.
@@catalystreactionsbw but that will make the front taller right? Is that ok?
@@PedroGLeitao Not necessarily. Preload helps keep you off bottom and compression control the speed of descent. That controls the area of the fork you use. Remember that stock springs are progressive so the ride height on the forks will not suddenly be higher.
If my static and rider sag are golden - but I’m bottoming out. Should I start by adding compression? Or preload as well? But adding preload will mess up my sag numbers.
Dave I was wondering how you set up a motorcycle for a rider for there riding style I ask because I was thinking about an article I read it was Team Suzuki with Matt Mladin and Aron Yates where they switched bikes and nether one could ride the others bike at any kind of decent pace. Is there a point in setting up a motorcycle where one would deviate from the "standard" way of setting up a bike so the bike feels better for there style of riding? If so could a video be made to touch on this point?
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Best advanced question ever. Can't wait for Moss' answer.
@@catalystreactionsbw
Me too.
Hey please talk about high viscous oil for forks....so please let me know that for agressive riding hi viscous oil will help or not...Many thanks in advance ;D ;)) cheers !! :)
High viscous oil only works in damping rod fork (15w to 30w). For cartridge and big piston forks, the oil has to travel through much smaller holes so we generally stay 10w or less.
so does this suggest that a rider should likely be adjusting there suspension frequently based on the riding planned for the day/trip?
Once set, it can be evaluated every 1,200 to 1,500 miles. No need for every day review.
@@catalystreactionsbw ok so I'm thinking that being I'm consistently a fast rider for the streets, that its better to have suspension setup for high speeds and will still be fine even on days I may be taking it slow albeit just not too comfortable which I dont mind; and which that would be better than having a comfortably slow suspension setting which would NOT be adequate for high speed rides. That being that the suspension wouldn't be reacting fast enough for the bumps and dips in the road. I like to ride very aggressively. That seem about accurate?
@@justaguy4real Set up for speed will not work for commuting and velocity is not present to make the forks and shock move.
Dave, you've setup 2 of my bikes before, both with stock suspension and they've always worked great. Now my new(to me) bike is a 2013 r1, stock suspension. I notice that it bottoms out no matter what adjustments I make to them. Even just riding around in the pits and hitting the brakes. Could it be a faulty install by the "mechanic" who rebuilt the forks?
Ask the mechanic exactly what they did and what they used. The real test is simply riding the bike to see how much travel you use normally. Then add 50% of the total range of preload and compression and test again. If you bottom again, go to 75%. If you bottom again then I would want to have the forks checked. If you weight over 220lbs or 100kg, your weight may be a factor.
the more you do trackdays, the less you want to ride (fast) on the streets...
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Excellent point. I could not agree more.
3:50 that's a different tire. What happened with the other? Was it destroyed or can it continue under the new pace of riding and suspension
I do not recall. Good observation.
@@catalystreactionsbw ha thx. Kind of a curse. I notice everything everywhere. Eye for detail and dissecting movies and videos to the point of ocd for usually worthless points. I'm gonna say this 1 more time here for sake of not wasting your time clicking every video just to read redundant shit, so thanks again for all your responses and answers, in future as well. You take the time to answer questions, that's awesome. Incredible how much I've already learned and pieced together stuff i always wondered. Your videos are very educational and I do my part by sharing them with other riders.
Hi Dave, I have just bought a Suzuki GSXR 750 K8 track bike...the bike is quite difficult to turn requiring a concerted effort on the bars..then when it turns it drops into the corner so quick i have to lift it again to make the corner. Have you any idea why it’s like this?
Sounds like geometry with the front being too high or too low, most likely too high
@@catalystreactionsbw thanks for the quick response, the forks are level with the yokes so I'll drop the front and see how I get on 👍
Man I REALLY want my suspension tuned by you, where are you located? :)
Most of my time is spent in California. I do travel all over the world teaching throughout the year. I can help you via our remote tuning program of video conferencing 1-1.
@@catalystreactionsbwI'm in southern Connecticut quite a bit a away lol but that sounds great too. How do we set up a time?
love you. pros
It is utterly mystfying pain the butt to even think about! DAMN I dont want to have to be a suspension geek! It's like either I learn all this stuff or drive hours to get to someone to do it for me. If you ask me it is sounding more and more to me like it is high time for suspension technology to step up to the plate and basically end this nightmare1 We have such good computing these days and sensors so at the very minimum bike manufacturers ought to be able to at least TELL the rider what needs to be changed and how! How hard would it be to have travel sensors front and rear? Easily done and tire temperature alsong with tire pressure? simple as installying sensors that transmit Now on a high end bike couple these with a bikes ability to adjust damping on the fly (which of course already exists) and also ride height and/or preload/ I dont see any of this being a big problem and with scale of mass production it could be really reasonable expecially for the lower end that simply has the computer recommending adjustments ukat=y done whining,,,,,already sorry U did bir buy rgw MT10 SP ..,,I opted instead to save $4k by the tune I COULD get a deal on the standard MT10 but on the SP they would not budge past 19500 otd sigh ,,,,,but on the bright side I have the extra funds to invest in the bike....I am thinking forged wheels! and maybe a high end shock although all I do is ride the twistiess so maybe it is wasted money. I just love to be able to keep up with a lot of younger riders on sportbikes anyway I can sa safely do so which mainly via practice riding the same sections of road over and over. The power of the 10 seems to help me overcome some slowness caused ny lack of corner commitment with raw acceleration from corner to corner ....it amazes me how many better riders I can keep up with this style,,,,they are smoother using less hard braking and acceleration so we are like yo yo spacing where they gain on me and then I catch right back up rinse and repeat over and over....I know suspension is one of the big things thwarting my commitment but for now safety is paramount
For the rear shock you need heavier oil viscosity and the correct spring (you may be perfect based on weight), so a shock oil service might be all that is needed. I can mail you settings for $40 that you install and have all you need for handling other than sensors :). Good points that in time, bikes may well become automatic and we just get to point them in the direction we want to go.
Nice
How do you tell if suspension is too harsh due to preload or compression damping
For compression: th-cam.com/video/Ei0RNQ3ne-8/w-d-xo.html. Preload is based on fork travel used: th-cam.com/video/vjueR-FQ8C8/w-d-xo.html
@@catalystreactionsbw thank you for the reply Dave. I have been riding my MT10 feeling like the rear shock is compressing my spine lol, having a hard time feeling changes even when I max my settings on either end, watching your videos trying to apply the methods.
@@bobjones6468 Cable tie on the fork and a little grease on the shock shaft will tell you if you are bottoming. Let your eyes validate this rather than you "think" it is. Quick, simple, accurate data.
I wish I could ride to pass my suspension settings
If you bike was set up correctly, you would be faster and need new settings fairly regularly as your riding improves and you stop adapting.
@@catalystreactionsbw ok sır thank you.
I know what you mean, everybody say that Marquez's style is very similar to mine and I struggle with suspension never being up to my needs.
D. M. T.
Every video is like a "trip" to the track
The bike whispera
Q
Am I the only one that can’t stop staring at that ugly white rear seat?
These guys are too big for their bike. Instead of bigger springs, maybe go on diet.