Testing the Ventris Dual Reverb w/ a Fine Tooth Comb (and a C4)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ส.ค. 2024
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Yapping about reverb
6:36 - Testing the algorithms
28:07 - Playing guitar through the Ventris
32:31 - Conclusion and Wrap up
#reverb #reverbpedal #effectspedal #ambient - เพลง
Hey, Ben - thanks for checking out the Ventris and C4! You found some really nice sounds. We need to put you in touch with Bob Chidlaw - he's the guy who designs all of our reverb algorithms as well as the C4 Synth.
I met Bob at a New England synth meetup years ago and have been a fan of Source Audio ever since.
Would looove a video showing how reverb algorithms actually work, perhaps with Reaktor or whatever you prefer for creating reverbs. You mentioned not wanting to pull out a whiteboard and show how the algorithm works - was so disappointed you didn't! Just do a lecture on reverb algorithms for 2-3 hours and everyone would be happy!
In my head reverbs are just delays, just... a lot more of them at the same time, at different rates with different filters, but I have a feeling it's more complicated than that.
I only know which reverbs I personally think sound better than others, I just don't know why.
Obviously reverbs that cost $300+ (in most cases) sound great, I'd just like to have an idea of what makes them so much better than free ones.
What are your thoughts on FL Studio Reeverb 1/2 for example? I personally never get a great sound out of it, but I don't know if it's because of a bad algorithm or if it's just user error.
Definitely would watch a video like that. I enjoy watching Ben's videos that go really deep into a topic, would love to hear his thoughts on that.
Fruity Reeverb is tricky to master for me as well, I think you can get decent sounds out of it but it's very tweakable so you can mess it up fairly easily lol. I forget what the algorithm is called but it tends to create more digital sounding verbs overall.
I have a theory that all *digital* reverbs are actually just strings of delays. Sounds like we have the same idea.
@@Axiom_Link they basically are, just with different ways of looping or blending the delays, as far as I understand
Best talk I've seen with PD patches:
th-cam.com/video/Il_qdtQKnqk/w-d-xo.html
Could it be that he was thinking that they had something like a simple looper (a few seconds) in front of their chain ?
That would be an easy way to get really long "tails" without running into issues (e.g. the tails thinning into metallic sounding tones like in basic Feedback delay networks)
Thanks for showing this. A lecture on reverb algorithms would be very well received. Hope to see that in 2021!
this is so awesome. i'd love to see more reverb deep dives like this.
I already have a bunch of bread-and-butter reverbs - in the Kemper, in the TC G-Force, in VSTs, in my hardware synths (the Novation Peak Reverb is actually not bad at all) - but I've been wanting either an Empress Reverb or a Source Audio Ventris for a while now - also the Echosystem or Nemesis... and I'm still undecided. But this is definitely the most thorough and enlightening review of this reverb I've seen - and I do love it. Thank you, Benn! :)
Always informative. 👍🏽🇦🇺
Fantatsic demo and big shout out to Dee! It's been a long time.
That pitchtracking reverb tho... YES PLEASE
I've gotten different but related sounds by patching a mono aux send to an EHX HOG II -> Roland CE-300 -> any true stereo reverb set full wet.
The Ventris! Finally! And bonus C4!
...I also am a "Reverb"(...and Delay!...) guy!...Thank you for your work,Sir!...
Just found this video. Awesome stuff. As others have mentioned, I would be very interested in an overview of reverb algorithms.
You, loopop, True Cuckoo, and BoBeats are by far the most informative music people on this site. So thorough and informative.
I think it would be criminal not to throw Hainbach or LOOK MUM NO COMPUTER into this list!
Adam Neeley
hear, hear!!
Mike L Absolutely agree!!
I am all up on that bus!!
"Why is it called 'dual'? Not because it wants to slap you with a glove." 😂😂
Hey man! I love your videos.
I've owned a Ventris for a few years now and there are a few things I wanted to mention. The biggest thing: I had hoped you would have shown or at least mentioned some of the specific ways you can tweak the algorithms through the editor. You mentioned the Specular Tempus has the awesome anti-shimmer, and you can accomplish the same thing with the Ventris's shimmer setting - I think there are around 30 different intervals (-2 octaves to +2 octaves and everything in between) to choose from. One other example is the Ventris' lofi setting: it has a bit rate parameter that can only be tweaked through the editor, which can lead to some creative results, especially when combined with the distortion and random modulation.
So, the big problem here, in my opinion: you cannot access these parameters directly from the pedal, you have to use the editor... or: MIDI CC! I decided to control the Ventris with my nanoKONTROL2 (worst spelling ever) MIDI controller and map the 16 knobs and sliders to 8 params of the 2 Ventris algorithms each. This really opened up the pedal for me. Here's an example of how I used it: th-cam.com/video/ap3eGNf30SE/w-d-xo.html (more info in description)
I know this is not about sound at all (which is what you're most interested in), but I just thought it was worth pointing out. The way I use it nowadays: I start jamming, and when I'm looking for something deeper / more experimental on the Ventris, I plug in the MIDI controller or hook it up to my laptop to get to the additional settings. If it's a patch I think I'll use more often, I save it as one of the 4 presets so that I can access it directly from the pedal.
Something else: I actually really like the echoverb setting on the Ventris, but unfortunately you cannot sync the delay time to MIDI clock... (which is why I've been eyeing the Collider, since it has my favorite Ventris algorithms, but also some great delay algos from the Nemesis, and you can combine the 2) Same goes for the tremolo time on the modverb setting: not syncable.
Final thing: you mentioned modulation a bunch of times during the video, but didn't demonstrate it that much. Every algorithm (I think) has modulation, although for some it's not directly accessible through the pedal. The e-dome is also my favorite setting, but only with modulation applied. Without modulation the algorithms tend to sound quite metallic, albeit with a unique and interesting sound.
Okay, final final thing... here's an example of a jam in which I used the midiLFOs iOS app to control the Ventris' settings through (you guessed it) MIDI LFOs: th-cam.com/video/xsz_M4NKtqQ/w-d-xo.html (more info in description)
Looking forward to the next video!
Abel
Thank you for taking the time to write this piece. You sound like you speak from a ‘jamming’ perspective and that’s what I would think most people are interested in. I’ll watch your video. This video is super interesting, but I’m not sure how practical. Tx again for your input!
Loved the DEE piece...reminded me of Rhandy Roads 👍
I know I’m late to this party but hearing “Dee” and seeing it played left handed and inverted made my head explode. Very nice. Great job with the video...please keep up the good work. :)
This episode made me realized that a Flashbulb + Lowercase Noises collab would be the greatest thing ever, along with a Benn Jordan + Andy Othling video collab.
Love the plate on the Ventris - I love plate plugins (Valhalla & Transatlantic) but it's always been the thing I couldn't find in a pedal.
I use my $50 Midiverb II as much as anything. Bloom 24/7
Please do a video explaining the nature of reverb algorithms!
Best overall outro speech so far. :-D
Reverb and ambient music go together like peanut butter and jelly! I also use the Ventris with my keyboards. I'm partial to Shimmer.
thats cause 90% of youtube ambient is someone playing a cheap synth through a reverb lol
Please do bust out a whiteboard. The world needs more technically minded gear reviews.
I watch this video and it looks like Twin Peaks series, or good old tv show from 90s . About reverbs. Just an impression. I love such kind of post-processing
4:26 is the truest of truths
Hi Benn!
I have a question if you have time?
First off thank you for your amazing work! So helpful hearing your detailed explanations on gear! The best!
The Ventris most certainly has the only shimmer I've ever liked the sound of.
I am not a photographer, but I've heard ring lights are good for close up shots like that. Bonus points if it has a diffuser.
NEUNABER IMMERSE!!!
Mk ii ofc
Yes Neunaber, I'm curious about the Plug-in version also, it's on sale right now.
This is Robin Guthrie’s go-to reverb at the moment and that’s all I needed to know before pulling out my credit card.
Could you make a video about what to look for in reverbs ? ( i have no idea about what to look for in a reverb plugin) great content btw :D
Hey Ben, great review as always!
I truly wanted a review of the Meris Mercury 7. Heard many cool things about that and I think that you would find it really interesting as well.
Cheers!
lighting tip - softboxes, or make your own. Take wax paper and a mat or something to hold said wax paper in front of the light. Connect it with a flexi-arm contraption and it should diffuse the light so that you don't get highlights in one spot and shadows elsewhere. Also look to "feather the light in" if necessary - where the direction you're pointing the light is not directly on the subject or maybe just to the side.
Have you made much use of impulse responses besides smaller room reverbs? a video on convolution verbs could be interesting
It's very interesting to read that you didn't find any noticeable differences between bricasti and other reverbs (at 34:45). As an ex-owner of lex 224, bricasti m7 and various other reverb and synth gear ((sold for financial reasons)) I must say that bricasti is above and beyond everything I've heard in modern reverbs for the last 20 years for sure.
It's very demandable for the source of the signal though. While lexicons will be great and lush on almost any signal , bricasti is more choosy for the source. I learned that the more nuanced and more sophisticated with micromodulation the source sound is, the more interesting will be the results with the bricasti. Thus in a lot of cases it is better suited for acoustic instruments, but still it will do magic on decent sounding synths and rhythm machines (try it with original tr-909 properly calibrated with new caps, new power supply, etc). Pure magic.
Also bricasti can handle the whole mix, while most of the modern reverbs are just good for solo + additional 1-2-3 instruments max. You can add just a tiny bit of bricasti sound and the whole mix while glue together, and it will not sound dull or unnatural, but take it away and the magic of natural sounding environment is gone. Of course a lot depends on the mixing craft of the engineer.
p.s. I love your Human Action Network Album and was listening to it constantly for the last 13 years I used to do music as Xi Zhuang moniker 7 years ago tastesdiffer.bandcamp.com/album/xi-zhuang-pillow-talk
It would be nice to see you do a list of some reverb pedals that are definitely worth trying out. You mentioned the Strymon and the Empress. Are there any others that should be on someone's list of reverb pedals to test out?
The Specular Tempus . . .
I bought a Big Sky about a year ago and on my own came to a similar conclusion. It's cool in a lot of ways, and I love the hands on control, but I do find the algorithms a little uninspiring, and maybe even dated at this point. Shortly after realizing this, I came across your Empress Reverb video, and thought "Damn that's the one I should have got". Probably will sell one and get the other but after the panny d once prices settle down again.
Christian Henson came to a similar conclusion about the Big Sky being overdone and outdone now, but while he seems to have gone the Nightsky direction, I am sure that level of programming complexity (menu diving without a display even) would drive be nuts, and I'd much prefer a simple knob-per-function interface for immediacy. Empress Ho!
MULTI COOL REVERB ...
Source Audio Collider is great value - a dual engine with nemisis and ventris in one box - see videos on extended mode access
For example: th-cam.com/video/mik73CWEMio/w-d-xo.html
I'm curious to see what you would make of the OTO BAM reverb. Been trying to get a hold of one for years but they keep going on backorder.
Would also love to see this. Could never get rid of mine
Have you thought of testing the Oto Bam? If you like reverb, you would love it :-)
Benn ran a sine sweep through the ModVerb, and there was a descending sine which you suggested might be a reverse delay, but I was wondering if it could be aliasing?
Who the heck is this guy haha Loved the video!
Sorry hit send... question is Can I get the cloud sounding reverb from the big sky with the Empress reverb or something very similar. I had to big sky and said I’ve never sell it but I did and I’ve tried so many since including having the Ventris now but can’t seem to emulate that wonderful cloud sound. I play Chapman stick with guitar synth’s As well as many different Analogue and digital synthesizers. I’m about to either re-purchase the big sky or purchase the empress reverb pedal. Loving the Zoia and trying to get comfortable to the SY 1000... pedals are my Prozac 🙂.
hey great review, I'm really interested in the song that is featured at 19:22, that synth is gorgeous! please and thank you
What is the first guitar you’re using please?. . Sounds lovely. Been leaning toward a Ventris for some time and this video is cementing that feeling
Where would you put the Digit (and it's IR reverbs) vs the Empress/Ventris/Tempest?
How about the Shiftline Astronaut A+? Definitely in the algorithm camp and includes the ubiquitous shimmer and freeze etc, but also has some neat tricks like a delay / looper with sample rate control, for example ( a little bit like CB Mood ... kinda). I'd be interested to hear your take ...
35:26 genius
Dude, would you review the new “Rooms” from Death By Audio?
The timing on this video could not be better. I'm just about to buy a reverb pedal for my Medusa which you also convinced me to buy. You think I should get the tempus, this, or something else? Feels like this video is truly demonstrating that it favors guitar when I don't play guitar, so I'm leaning towards the tempus.
I think his vote would be the empress. But it all depends on your needs, tempus is good too.
Benn and Gear ... can you speak for purchasing the Erica Synths Syntrx ... I really want it... I just have money// commitments.
Nice shirt!
I love my OTO BAM
Agreed.
Dee. NICE.
The people need to see your review of the Audiothingies Doctor A.
I'd love to know what you think of the make noise erbe-verb :)
Wish it was stereooooOoooOooo
Subbed because you're playing the guitar upside down
99.95% ... pretty sure that was “the best” of the percentages quoted ... 😜
Don't think you're doing these much if at all anymore but you should check out the Walrus R1. So good.
The interface on the R1 confuses me and I keep getting mixed up while trying to edit it, and I asked Walrus Audio about the input threshold, and they said it is a fixed setting, no changing it. So basically, there is a permanent pre-delay if you use the R1 with pad sounds with slow attack, the reverb won't kick in until the input sound level reaches a certain point. It is mildly infuriating, but not anything serious.
You’re annoyingly smart in the right places ;)
Have you tried the Logidy EPSi? Convolution reverb in a pedal.
They don't make them anymore.
Ben, I understand you care more about hi-end reverbs, but may be you know any good pedals in cheaper segment?
TC T2 is $150 I believe. th-cam.com/video/AxCB79-i3eM/w-d-xo.html
Try Foxgear Rainbow, TC Hall of Fame 2 or EHX Oceans 11. First two have analogue dry through if that’s important to you
I've been surprised with how much I like my Polara. I think I got it for about 90 bucks secondhand. It's not super tweakable, but it sounds really good.
You and your lady have a killer and safe 4th
Can you make that work in Pd? If so it’ll work on the organelle. Which would be ya know real nice for us, Ben.
Possibly if I could find a few libraries or make some sacrifices. But unfortunately the Owl or Organelle or Nebulae would not have anywhere near enough power to run it unless it was much lower level than PD or even Max Gen
Electribe SX1 reverb please. 😄
anyone else not really hearing the stereo aspect, except for on the tremolo / pan setting....? or jus me. not sure what to reasonably expect, or if the sound sources are in stereo to start, which would be helpful but is not totally required. just wondering what makes this true stereo / not true, or is that not even a real thing if fed a mono source.
Bricasti Model 7 next?
stimulus check thing at the end cracked me up... sadly.
16:05 dark souls 3 death sound
Hi dude! I'm thinking sell my DigiTech Supernatural or my DigiTech RV-4, or maybe both of them to buy a Ventris. What do you think? It's worth it?
I'm not sure if you're joking or not - we're honestly talking 0.05% difference in reverb quality between these pedals in your estimation? I'm quite curious of what you think of guitar multi-effects boards for synths. I can really see myself loving things like the Line 6 M13 and the Zoom Gn5 with their 4 screens each with 4 pots to tweak. Seems like it could be a really live hands on performance interface plus the ability to easily chain effects. Quite cheap too. I don't know if they quality of effects is any good though. The Zoom only has a mono input unfortunately (but still great for mono synths i'd imagine) and the line 6 does stereo.
I pledge allegiance to reverb
The 8 dislikes where probably the guitar center guys you roasted :D :D
it's interesting seeing the video subtitles engine interpret some of your music as laughter and applause... I guess it got confused by the reversed strings on your Godin like I was
I’m considering creating my own reverb using the Zoia with a similar circuit to the Erbverb. Out of interest have you tried using your Zoia to create a algo based reverb and if so what pitfalls did you come up against?
Zoia doesn’t let you build a “reverb algorithm.” It provides you some reverb algorithms that you can control and route. He’s talking about building effects a whole layer below what the zoia allows you to do.
@@NunyaB1s I created a simple reverb algo based on an FDN design using 4 delay lines for the main reverb tail. Also used LFOs on the delay lines to minimise the tail being too metallic. Main problem so far has been achieving realistic early reflections. I need to go back and look at it again to be honest. Christopher Jaques created a really good version of a 78 lexicon plate. It’s on patch storage.
@@peterjessop1878 I mean… in hindsight it makes sense that reverb could be created by microscopic delays but I didn’t think the Zoia would allow the kind of control to do this… I will check out that patch and get inspired
Have you done anything with the Boss RV500?
That one is awesome, my favorite in my reverb collection.
Hello Mr Flashbulb. Will you make a midi file video of your song "Amber Shores", but without the glitch sounds, just the melody? That song is my favourite one, first I saw it when I started playing stepmania about a year ago. My first impressions were beautiful, as I heard the first part of the song, I knew it was going to be kick-ass. I tried for so long to discover the whole melody of the song, but all I could find out is; E C A B C B G E C B G. I truly hope you will read and sometime do it, you wouldn't believe how much would I appreciate it. 🙏 🙏🙏
26:40 strong bad techno
any thoughts on the zoom ms70cdr?
I have one for my synths, I heard the signal gets digitized on the way through -no true bypass!
Subbedverb...
Hi Ben, what’s your opinion on analog summing, something worth doing?
Money better spent on some monitors that you like, some compressors that you like, and an audio engineering book/course.
👍
Hologram Microcosm?
the reverse algorithm actually gets super grainy
Is this one BETTER and more versatile than the Specular Tempus???
Better? No, but the Ventris is certainly more versatile for reverb, though the Tempus can also double as a simple delay pedal. The Ventris can also tend to sound metallic, but not the grating, unpleasant metallic of some other reverb pedals. It sounds like a much higher-fidelity version of the "SRV Reverb" found in some Roland workstation keyboards, if you are familiar with those. Those particular Roland reverbs tend to have very poor diffusion and density aspects that are maxxed out by default, but reducing them to zero each in parameters renders the reverb more "Ventris-sounding" and better overall.
@@Jason75913 I have a Specular tempus now...think I go for a Empress Reverb also...but first I wanna sell my TC Electronic Force
Hit or miss pedal ? I guess they never miss huh
My question: I can’t find your review of Valhalla reverbs. Maybe I’m overlooking it. Have you tested Valhalla products?
Thanks Benn.
I’m on the verge of buying the Empress Reverb pedal and wonder if I’m throwing money away, given that I own several Valhalla verbs, including shimmer & their Delay pedal.
PS, I also feel buying a little buying Empress Reverb when Zoia can be had for around the same price. Unlike you, I maybe don’t have the IQ, brain circumference, etc to manhandle a Zoia.
With Minilogue XD, I was fine with letting the USER OSC creators do the heavy lifting…just use their work. Maybe it’s similar with Zoia-lots of creators out there, making us stay at home synth-dads sound good.
Anyhow, would love to hear your thoughts!
As a follow up to your video about scams, would you be willing to look into the situation with Distro Kid? Some people are claiming scam, others say it's just a misunderstanding of the terms. I can't sort it out on my own (I currently use their service), I'm hoping someone with your experience can get to the bottom of this. Thanks.
I use it for only one of my EPs and it seems...alright? I've heard some bad things recently that I'd like to look a bit more into the details of. They DO have a pretty strong affiliate and influencer program and have contacted me regarding being a sponsor for this channel numerous times over the years, so a lot of those "rave reviews" you see on TH-cam may not be genuine.
But the bigger question is: If not DistroKid, who? All of these services are unsatisfactory in my opinion. :-\
As you've tested the empress reverb, the ventris and the tempus, which one do you prefer (if any) ? I expect a reverb mainly to add ambient style to synths and also to expand sounds to "outer space" while using electric guitar, which one would you recommend ?
all three excel at what you want, basically pick the one whose sonic character pleases you more
Reverbologist ?
Benn, I'm a little concerned by the position of the toggle switch on the right hand side. It looks like it is in the A+B centre position for about 2/3rds of the video, in which case the majority of your demos are of various algorithms in the A engine, plus the same fixed algorithm (whatever you set it to...) every time in the B engine - which is what it sounds like... It also sounds like the A and B engines are in parallel, rather than series... As a result, I don't think this is a valid test of the capabilities of the Ventris... I'm also intrigued that no-one else has noticed this in 17 months... Oh, and actually, you did notice it - because at 25:23, you quietly move the switch to the 'A only' position! Ooops!
It's confusing because the samples he is putting through it are almost certainly mono, but he has two inputs connected. So is he only sending audio through channel 1? Or the same signal into both channels?
Either way that leaves three routing options:
Mono to stereo
Stereo to stereo
Dual mono
We are hearing a stereo image, so that rules out dual mono mode (page 39 of the manual).
So, referring to page 34 and 35 of the manual (mono to stereo and stereo to stereo respectively). While in A+B mode in either of these configurations, the Control knobs 1 and 2 set the levels of Reverb A and Reverb B respectively. Considering the switch is set to A+B and he is turning Control knob 2 up, Reverb B must be getting added to the mix whenever Control knob 2 is not at zero.
I can imagine this pedal causing a lot of unnecessary confusion and self doubt. I don't like gear that makes me feel like I'm being gaslit.
If there's only one light lit, there's only one reverb engine engaged. regardless of toggle position.
You're playing with high strings at the top? what's happening here lol
MERCURY 7
Pretty sure you just killed all the shimmer settings that I've ever heard with your algorithm. Is that available as a plugin?
it doesn't beat Specular Tempus shimmer 😆
I do agree about how bad guitar gear-related channels are, probably the only channel I watch is Pedalsandeffects.....though channel's future is kind of uncertain now that Juan is still recovering from nerve damages
Shout out to Ventris owners that never use both reverbs 😊
Nice shirt lolol
Have you tried any of the Meris pedals? The company was started by one of the guys from Strymon. Their reverb pedal is inspired by the Blade Runner soundtrack.
Mercury7 is amazing
+1 interested in Ben's view on the Mercury7. Also one of the first pedal guys with a dedicated 500 module. Awesome.
1978 or you no longer the Boss of reverb. Do it! .plz.
Just buy both the empress and ventris
... still cheaper than a Bricasti...
FOLKTEK ALTER