If you liked this video please like it and subscribe. I really loved papers please, and when I started making this video I knew it would do horribly, but I really wanted to do it anyway. In order to make videos like this successful I'll need to appear more favorable than I do now to the algorithm, so any interaction with my video is helpful. Also feel free to follow me on my twitter. Thanks! Twitter - twitter.com/AngelOfThePast_
I don’t know if the man who asked me to deny his stamp is really a slam dunk. I got ending 20 on my first play-through, and I believe I was fully moral in my decisions. Most of the cases brought up by the people trying to pass, are either the result of their irresponsibility or something I have no proof that is the truth. The man that asked for the denial stamp wanted me to take a risk on whether my family would eat that day, so that he could change the terms on his deal. The women sad they’re going to kill her, but that could as well be a lie, as people are prone to do. The only person I let pass intentionally was Elisa, because I trusted Sergiu, and I deemed him and her worthy of such a risk. Remaining impartial for the sake of not being naive is not immoral in my opinion. Arstotzkas tyranny made no difference to me. But, good job on the video. It draws interesting parallels between the video game and Milgram’s experiment. It helps remind one of their first run. Hope this helps with the algorithm.
@@irithyllian5150 Like I said it's all good fun. I don't think I'm the end all be all, and I wouldn't even say someone is a bad person if they purposefully turned people away because they were rude. It is a game after all. I just noticed the similarities between this game and the Milgram Experiment. Listening to authority isn't necessarily the immoral thing either, and my logic only tracks if you truly count Arstotzka as immoral, which there is no absolute evidence for. I would even say getting ending 20 is more inline with Kant's moral philosophy. As for the guy who asked for a red stamp, he asked you to get a citation, but offered you 10 credits, which would only cost you and your family if he was your 4th citation of the day. So I wouldn't say he was necessarily taking a risk to let your family eat. And I do greatly appreciate any help with the algorithm! (I like interaction more because it's nice to see people engaged, but the algorithm helps with that.)
@@AngelOfThePast Of course, don’t worry. I didn’t see it as an attack on my character, but merely as a philosophical outlook on my actions in relation to Milgram test. As for the bribe, I guess I rejected him so fast, that I don’t remember XD. But I see now why that case is a really good razor for justifications.
@AngelOfThePast I'm curious, if you were to replay the game so well that you could easily feed your family and essentially had a carpe blanche to break protocol for whoever you wanted (provided you didn't go out blindly letting every randomly generated entrant in), who would you break protocol for? My list boils down to exactly three people: -The Antegrian wife you'd be otherwise separating from husband and leaving for death in Antegria -The Kolechian whose only chance of survival is the risky medical procedure outlawed in Kolechian -Sergiu's Elisa, who I know is unable to legally obtain the proper documents for reasons beyond her control In literally every other case I don't feel any real moral obligation to help the person out. I know of no reason why the Imporian mother can't simply have her entry permit renewed. I don't know why the Republian guy with the watch wants to get into the country so bad, so urgent. Helping the unitedfed father hunt for Simon Wens would be endangering more children should he fail. The unitedfed guy asking for a Red Stamp has already agreed to a work contract, so his green stamp is entirely on him. In a real world scenario, I imagine that most of the randomly generated entrants have sob story just as compelling, if not more so, than most of the scripted entrants who actually tell you why they need entry so bad. I see breaking protocol to deny the red stamp man as equivalent to denying a randomly generated entrant, as far as I'm concerned at least.
i still remember my first playtough, i went out of money trying to help those who i consider good people i went bankrupt next run i help ezic, and i thought i was doing the right thing, later i did arstotska and it feel horible when i need to arrest jorji, and denied almost everyone with a special dialoge, i aprove elisa, and its intresting i never saw papers please like that, you got a new suscriber!
Different endings? What subversive Kolechian slander is this? There is only one ending: Unlocking endless mode by getting a sweet government job. Glory to Arstotzka!
The Obristan ending could also be the result of the inspector just not being competent at his job. Rather than any unspoken bonds, or sympathy towards you, he could have seen the passports and re-entry tickets and decided "eh, they look fine". Maybe he hesitated when he noticed the final set of papers didn't look quite right, but just shrugged and decided that letting you through would be the easier option since Obristan policies are much more lax than Arstozkan ones. In short, you and your family were just lucky.
This was my interpretation when I first saw this ending as well. I think it's a case of both the inspector is a bit incompetent at his job (evident by the fact that you notice how horrible the documents are and he doesn't) and that Obristan's immigration requirements are way more lax than Arstotzka's (evident by the fact that you only needed a passport and a ticket to enter). The inspector not caring why you visit could also explain both situations. Although this video has shown me a different interpretation of this scene and I could honestly see it either way now
I always read the Obristan Ending as the border control agent being "worse" and not spotting the forgery, us getting lucky. Somehow, the much more gutpunching idea of him actively letting us through despite all we may or may not have done, showing compassion, never occurred to me
I'm glad that you went to the trouble of explaining the Berlin Wall to younger viewers who may not necessarily be familiar with it historically. Culturally, it was a huge deal back in the 80s, not just for Europeans but for everyone who was alive at the time. It's difficult to really explain that decade and how bad it was for people living there until you actually know the background to it all. We definitely don't want younger generations to let all this happen again just because they didn't know what led up to it.
I probably wouldn't have known what the wall would be until much later in my life but my dad was born in West Germany so I learned about it pretty early on in my life.
Watching jacksepticeye play was chilling. When I played for the first time, I did a mental calculation of "can I afford it" and then I decided I can when that event happened.
i disagree with your analysis of the Obristan immigration agent. The only reason I granted someone with incorrect documents entry as an inspector was because they had a compelling story. The Obristan agent didn't even care we were visting relatives and shut the blinds in our face, so I believe that Obristan immigration is just more lenient and they aren't as controlling as Arstotzkan immigration. Also the fact that Obristan is still on the entry ticket stage while Arstotzka had moved on to the combined access permit and vaccination card. He probably just saw we all had Obristan passports and let us through.
Saying he doesn't care . . . isn't necessarily the truth. If he is going to go against his government, he is going to do so while pretending that he isn't. That way, you still maintain a reputation as loyal, and you are less likely to be investigated.
I agree, either Cobrastan isn't as fussy as Arstotska, or the Cobrastan inspector isn't as competent, maybe both. It's likely that Cobrastan isn't getting suicide bombers every couple of days and don't need to be as strict. And it's possible that even though the passports are fake, they're not fake in a way that would allow him to deny them. Jorji's passport is always visibly fake (the passport number isn't in the same format as every real passport) but this is not a valid reason to deny him. The Cobrastan inspector *doesn't* necessarily intend to help the player. He doesn't care about the player's story and he doesn't know we're from Arstotska. He might not even know what's going on there. After all, we only hear small bits of news from the other countries. And it seems like Arstotska is mostly reacting to the frequent terrorist attacks. Even up to the last day, people are still going there for work, as tourists, whatever, even for asylum. Finally, it's not really viable to only confiscate passports from people who you would normally detain, or even deny. If you want to escape with your family, you have to confiscate most of the Cobrastan passports you see. It's not a win-win scenario at all. It's a matter of being desperate enough to cause serious problems for other people (and risk your life if your plan fails) to save your family.
@@fluffysheap if you confiscate and deny them its only an inconvenience to them, it's not as troublesome to get a new passport while not being stuck in Arstotska.
My first death/ending in this game was being jailed after tattling with the Ezic paperwork. I was outraged! Speaking of outrage, I can't believe this video wasn't recommended to me until over two years after its release.
I think TV Tropes summarized this game very well: "Banality of evil: The game". Because that's essentially what it is. What could be more banal than bureaucracy? A paper pusher, who follows the rules to a T, no sign of emotions like a machine. It's very easy to hide behind the rules and the hierarchy and put the blame on them. You calling it a Milgram experiment is quite accurate. First time I played I got one of the three "good" endings. I've proven loyal and got to keep the job. Funnily enough it was an accident, because I DID want to help EZIC. I was just top utterly stupid to do so. Too caught up in making sure I get the documents right, so I can feed my family, which is the one thing I actually pulled off. Food and heat nearly consistently, maybe even one apartment upgrade. And the crayons for my dear son. So I kinda slipped into being loyal, when I wanted to help the nebulous rebellion, but didn't recognize both of their agents and didn't want to kill Khaled Istom or the man in red. That said, despite the loyalty I still let some people through, even when their papers weren't correct. The woman escaping from Antegria is one such example. Same with Eliza or the person who really needs a life-saving surgery that is only really offered in Arstotzka. The game even incentivizes this. Almost as if the Arsotzkan government, on some level, understands human nature enough to allow for two citations with no issue. Human error? Fine? Letting some poor soul through? Urgh, fine. Just make sure it's the exception. Escaping to Obristan was not an option. Why? Well did you see what happens to those with no passport? This is the one part of the video I have to disagree with. Stealing the passports is not a "mild inconvenience". These regimes there don't care the slightest about that. You might doom those people to never get back home, because the passport was taken. And even if it is documented and Arstotzka would be willing to let them back to Obristan (there is no indication of bad relations with Obristan after all), there is no guarantee Arstotzka will survive the EZIC rebellion. Will they keep that promise? You might strand several people there with no hope of going back home to save you and your family. So even Obristan isn't all good, it's still grey. And did the Obristan inspector really see through the passports? He seemed like he doesn't care at all and just wants to collect a paycheck. Your character saying the passports look like crap might be paranoia or just them being super critical. I do like the nuance that is shown here. While the speed at which policies and documents are introduced is crazy, nearly all of the policies have their reason. Impors trade sanctions is one of them. Every rule, as weird as they may seem in a vacuum, have their reason to exist here. Later on the government actually simplifies the bureaucracy somewhat by putting several documents together. Even the inspector says it makes his job easier. And if Arstotzka survives EZIC, it actually manages to ease the tensions with Kolechia (which EZIC didn't want to do). Plus it does seem to do very well when it comes to healthcare and the press can still criticize government policies somewhat, so their grip on the press isn't as bad as in, say, Republia. In fact compared to the Republia times both Arstotzka and EZIC are downright benevolent to the player. You do well in Arstotzka? You get cleared despite discrepancies and keep your job. They also acknowledge you cannot be perfect and are thus willing to hand out two citations with no monetary punishment per day. You help EZIC? They will protect you and your family. In Republia? You serve Republia well, your family gets killed. You help the rebellion, your family gets killed. For all their faults: Arstotzka and EZIC keep their promises to you, if you do what they want. They reward your loyalty. All in all it was a good video and I like that this game can still spark a discussion about its themes and story. Well done. :)
For the argument that the passports look like crap: you're literally trained to find forgeries, of course to your now-trained eye, the passports will look worse. But what if the Obristan inspector is new or isn't as incentivized not to mess up? Is it them being negligent or you being hypercritical, really? I love Papers Please for its nuances so, so much, because it paints in swathes of grey with only a few splotches of stark red in there. There's a reason it inspired a short film and the short film hit as hard as the game did: the game managed to make for an extremely compelling story that can be examined with multiple angles and yield multiple answers.
@@neoqwerty I fully agree with your assessment and I do like that it's up to the player to interpret. Personally I lean towards the inspector being hyper-critical due to being trained to find forgeries and being worried about failing to get into Obristan. .
Having played this game, I actually passed the test on my first playthrough. I constantly bent the rules to benefit the travelers so long as it wouldn't endanger Arstotzka. One of the big examples is that if someone had incorrect sex and that was the only problem I would never ever detain them. And yes, I denied Red Stamp Man.
If you look at the Beholder series, which is a little similar in setting but different in game play, there's actually a Papers, Please protagonist character *from* the Obristan ending. Not canon but fun.
This was an amazing video. It seems you don’t post anymore but I want you to know that you did a great job at not only drawing the connection to real life morality tests but also building suspense towards the Obristan ending. I already knew what happened as I played the game but I was on the edge of my seat thinking he might deny entry for some reason. Hats off to you well done!
19:07 You aren't actually "supposed" to detain Shae. You never get instructions from Dimitri or in the bulletin to detain anyone. Just the power to do it and a kickback from the guards to incentivize it. The inspector has actually a lot of discretion in what to do, and anyone ought to realize that arresting Shae is probably not the best choice. You can simply deny Shae entry, and it will make Dimitri angry, but if he's not already angry with you, you won't be arrested. Of course, other than the citation (which is generally not a big deal) the cost of allowing her to pass is low. She is never a terrorist. The theme of the game is pretty cohesive. The power structure does not really care if you are competent or honest. They only care if you are loyal and subservient. EZIC isn't really any different, just different people in power. Finally, I don't think this game counts as a Milgram experiment. The Milgram experiment is shocking - pun good but not intended - because it shows how people will harm others, just because authorities say to, *and* in service of a trivial purpose (a supposed science experiment of obviously dubious value). Enforcement of laws is not a trivial purpose. Jorji is personally harmless but drug smuggling leads to serious problems for society. Any random person with a sob story might be a criminal (why do you think Jorji needs fake passports? He can't get a real one because he is a known drug smuggler). Nor does the old "just following orders is no excuse" saw apply. The reason that ever even became a thing is because the orders were crimes against humanity. It does not mean that people can disregard legitimate orders just because they want to. So the real question is, if the inspector is going to bend the rules, is he going to actually make things better because of it? One person can make a difference, but will it be for the good? In the film, the inspector makes poor judgments. He denies Elisa and arrests Jorji, and then, finally, succumbs to a sob story... Only to find that he has allowed a terrorist.
This is all just my opinion but... I was sort of thinking this as well. Rules are there for a reason and any person with a sob story could possibly be a terrorist trying to get through. Of course both country's governments might be bad guys in their own right... but that doesn't change the fact that any person with a sob story could be bad actors themselves. Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right. I consider a lot of the decisions you could make more so of a grey area where either kind of logic is valid. You could let someone with a convincing story through because you want to believe that they are good, and they have a convincing story to go with it. Or you could deny them since there have been so many bad people and people with incorrect paperwork that you are denying on a day-by-day basis anyway, that it's likely they are just lying or exaggerating things, however convincing they might sound. So you find it likely that they could be bad-actors themselves. I mean terrorist attacks happen on a day-by-day basis in the game. It's not unlikely for someone you let through just because their story sounds convincing isn't a terrorist themselves, indirectly harming or even killing many other people. But you could also be indirectly ruining that persons life or even killing them by denying them... so it's kind of a grey area what kind of decision you make in those situations.
When I first played I mostly followed the rules as I was worried about my family dying and felt like if I was in that position I would be most focused on my immediate family members. I wasn’t very good at helping Ezic as I struggled with their codes and I also did tend to not let people through I felt deserved it because I wasn’t great at the game and was worried the family would starve from too many citations
I'll have to disagree about Pope purposefully hiding the ideology of Arstotzka. He's said in interviews that it's a communist country, plus the way soldiers dress with their ushankas and even the spelling of the name Arstotzka all point to it being something like cold war Soviet Russia. The reason there's an argument is because gameplay wise it's much more interesting to go with a capitalist system. Getting paid for processing more people is very capitalist, and this way you're incentivized as a player to go fast when checking papers, which will lead to mistakes, drama, etc. If you got paid an unchanging government rate like they would've done with communism there would be no tension. Same thing with you buying new apartments. Under communism you'd just be assigned a communal apartment from the government and that would be it, but that would leave the player with very little to work for beyond food and heat.
Communism has always failed extremely fast in practice and gets replaced by some flavor of totalitarian police state. This is not an incorrect representation of a Communist country, becuase this is what the Soviet Union had become just before it fell. Such is the fate of all nations that call themselves Communist, refusing to drop the label because it means admitting they failed at the core pillar of their national identity.
@@BloodwyrmWildheartcapitalism and communism *are* mutually exclusive. Communism is a classless, stateless, moneyless society. There is no “communist country” because communism requires that borders and countries as a concept be retired. Like star trek, theres not different countries and shit on earth anymore. The regions and cities and shit all still have their names, but they are one “country”, the federation. They dont usually use money themselves, people just work towards doing what they wanna do. Theres no poor or rich people, just people. Its a utopian ideal that wont be achieved in our lifetime, it requires a lot of good faith cooperation, and the idea it and capitalism can coexist misunderstands what these things are. The word communism just became a buzzword after the red scare, as the USSR was founded with the intent of putting marxist theory into practice, but all attempts at progress were immediately overturned when stalin came to power. He used the ideals of marx as an appeal to the workers who were fed up with capitalism and the west, then he wiped out all the actual marxists and got to work being a state capitalist dictator. Hitler did the same thing. Its very easy to use marxist ideals to manipulate people because marx was right, its just that a few fascists put on a smile and with a little charisma whisked up a following and then dumped them in the mud for their own gain, and now the west goes “omg THAT’S communism?” And, be it for or against, runs with it. Thats not what marx intended at all. Again, star trek’s human federation is very much utopian communist, and again, it is utopian. Its not gonna be achieved through voting in someone or a single revolution or whatever. Itd take years of pushing, a lot of cooperation, and sometimes, well, _usually_ people with that kinda power are corruptible. Socialism is the transitory period, it begins with the workers having control of businesses, instead of a ceo like say elon musk who sits on top of everyone, does basically nothing but sit around tweeting all day and maybe approving and denying shit, and yet still gets ALL the money, the workers would be the ones in charge. Itd be democratic ownership, not monarchic or totalitarian purchased ownership. Democratic companies is fundamental to the shift to socialism, its better for the workers, and we have data on this kind of system via worker cooperatives, a type of business like i described. These are much more likely to survive their early days than regular new businesses, make workers happier, and are very productive, cus people like being treated well at their job. Happier workers means better productivity. Id suggest reading up on them, cus theyre an actual step in the right direction and are gaining traction
I think that Arstotzka going for a socialist veneer while being capitalist is even better, as the capitalist restoration in Russia and China also had the people and state thinking they were still socialist for a while, despite evidence to the contrary. And compared to Kolechia and Antegria, they are pretty ethical and decent. In comparison.
Its not capitalism lmao, giving fake money only spendable in your government is not capitalism whatsoever, nor the fact that the player is assigned a government job and therefore literally not working in the private sector
Bruh i just watched 3 of your videos today. These are incredible and so interesting. How does this have less than 600 views?? liked and subscribed my dude
I cheated in a way that only games let me cheat, and I'm sadly not sorry about it, I kinda do this in real life too, but of course not to this satisfying level: I improved my speed to a point where I was always kinda comfortable with a couple citations and I just administered them as I saw fit if the person looked like they were really telling the truth about their sorrows I'd help him, if they looked like they lied (and you know the game makes it very obvious when people lie because they do it very badly), I would reject them without too many qualms I might be too influenced by my culture, latino cultures inherit the importance of family above all from mediterranean cultures, so if I had to do a couple of bad things to strangers to get my family to live better I just did it and I never really worried too much about it. That was my first play through. As I learned to kinda speed run the game I had some extra money to waste helping strangers when I felt they deserved it. I might have been playing a cruel but just god now that I think about it, but "just" according to my own parameters. I guess I'd be a terrible person in time of war, if it guaranteed my family food and shelter.
For me the moral of this game is keeping your family alive and well. Can't let someone pass without the correct paperwork cause that endangers my family. You learn that the day that the Arstotzkan lady blows up 50 meters from you and kills innocent guards. Anyway, a great game.
I would decide the ‘shock’ on a case by case basis, If I only had 1 or 2 citations that day, they would be accepted. If I had 3 or more, I would normally reject them. Elsia got accepted every time. Red stamp man always got rejected. Antegrian wife got accepted as I wouldn’t have many citations early on. Jorjis bribes would be accepted every time without fail. The guy who needed surgery would be accepted. But on the other hand, I would reject the lady who complains about her running late for a bus, I would always look to detain the lady who insults the drawing, Shae would be denied every time. Basically I would reject or detain anyone who was rude lol.
I actually just thought of one REALLY messed up thing you could do. You know how you can just take your time when processing somebody after 6PM? I thought of something similar to that. Since the day ends at 6PM, you can just start dying everybody and only slow down when you get 2 citations around 4PM (or accepting everybody after the 'reason' stamp has been introduced after checking face/weight/gender). Instead of treating it as an opportunity cost where you miss 5 credits, you'll instead just rush through 5 applicants in the time that it would take you to process just 1. Even if you get 2 citations, who cares since they won't deduct your pay anyways.
Came back to watch after buying and playing like you recommended. Whoa. Such a simple game being thought of as a Milgram experiment. Its so strange how you feel like a failure for letting people slide with less paperwork yet it feels like ultimately the right thing to do after playing for awhile. I had to replay Day 1-3 like 6 times before i got all the rules and idea of how the game was played down pat. Haha. Because i refused to look up how to play or anything like an idiot. Great video dude.
I've replayed this game a lot. It's good, I use a cheat sheet now with all of the rules on it. I don't get it perfect all of the time, but it makes things cleaner and more realistic (I would definitely have paper copies of everything in real life). Yeah the inherent need to do what authority tells you is insane. Games are really good at pulling that out of you because you inherently try to do what the developers intended. We get so used to following the rules we miss opportunities that lay outside of our perceived bubble of operation. Games are cool.
My understanding is that there is a dilemma between the humanitarian rights that feel intuitive and the realities of enforcing a border. Setting aside a state's right to sovereignty over its jurisdiction, applying border enforcement in practice inevitably incentivizes acting inconsistently with commonly held democratic principles. I think Jose Mendoza argues we ought to have rules akin to jus in bello for immigration. Another argument proposes more porous borders may decrease immigration and reduce permanent residents as they will have more autonomy over mobility. Perhaps the state isn't as innocent as it seems; after all, they act inconsistently to defend something arbitrary like a wall. One can even imagine a US-like state deporting millions of immigrants to protect a document that states all are equal, but maybe that document was never candid.
Detaining everyone you can as the inspector is incentivized by a kickback from the security guard, arstotzka doesn't think the inspector have his judgement biased by a payday for such arrests, he should be exercising his discretion, so when your boss punishes you he surely goes overboard, but
I'll never forget my first playthrough, I was barely squeaking by, I refused to co-operate with the rebellion, and I had mostly gone by the book... then the ife came up... I honestly didn't think much about the situations prior to that, but that one stood out to me... I could almost imagine the desperation in the man's voice. I agonized over it so long that the day ended, and I knew I wasn't feeding my family, so fuck it I thought. I let her through. It was only after the day ended that I realized that I didn't save her because I was good, but because I was just burnt out. It hurt to think about, alot.
Goddamn, when I watched this video it has been a while when I played the game. But I remembered my first time choices when you asked them. I still approved the man who asked to be denied, I denied the woman who said she'll be killed if not. I remember thinking, why endanger my job for a ludicrous request for the former, and simply not believing the woman for the latter. But the real gut punch was your interpretation of the Obristan ending. It's the ending I got and I was simply relieved I saved my family, I didn't realize that it wasn't me that did. Wow what a humbling realization. Hopefully, when faced with this in reality we can make different choices. Perhaps failing the Milgram test the first time is a necessity.
42:40 I think the the Obristan inspector would only get one very long citation as the passports are technically under one person the Inspector we play as handing them all over at once.
Great video! It made me want to play the game again. I can tell I probably did not get as much out of it as I could. My issue with this kind of game is that I stress the hell out. I never felt like I had enough time for anything and never got that immersed into the story. The main parts, yes, to some extent. But I do not recall noticing the stories people told me, nor did I recognize most of the recurring characters. I played it several years ago, so it could just be faulty memory, but I think another issue was that it was a game I would play for 30-60 minutes. Put down and then continue several days if not weeks later. IT was so stressful that I needed a break every two in-game days (or something like that) The crux of my point is that I probably stressed so much about rushing people (correctly) through the booth to really get the full in-game experience. Sure, I do remember sometimes helping people in need, but those moments were overshadowed by hurrying up the process so the family didnt die. I also only played through it once because of the stress factor. I wonder how common it is for other people to have had the same "issues" playing the game.
I've never thought about the Obristan ending like that. I've always assumed that he works with Jorji and when these super shit passports come in, he knows they're Jorji's friends and approves them.
Thank you for making this video. I own the game and have tried to play it a multitude of times, but I sends me straight into a whirlwind of depression and I drop it. The moral dilemmas overwhelm me and now I know why
To be honest, this makes me have a Lotta respect for just border patrol officers and people that have to do that type of job in general just by playing this game. It is absolutely wild and how much my perspective has shifted.
Idk, just like neither of the governments are "good guys", neither sticking entirely to your morals nor following the rules of the authority is appropriate. Upholding the morals agreed upon by society might make you a "good" person, but the resulting consequences can also wrong others that were innocent as well
Don't need the test to know I'm a somewhat decent enough person Meaning I aint a really good or bad guy just some guy who looks out for himself and tries not to activly fuck over anybody.
I can imagine the reason the government arrested the Inspector’s sister is so they can levy his family like how North Korea threatens their citizens family for desertion.
I mean its a game and yes you can explore all choices thats what makes the game fun. First run i did do what i felt i would do and ended up doing what i was told for the government while letting ppl through that were in tough jams. But no i dont think this game says anything about you. People play videogames to make decisions they normally wouldnt just to see. I doubt the decisions made for most people during their run are things they would decide irl. Could be wrong and as i said i played my first run how i would irl but yea. It being a game is a valid counterpoint. You might be thinking too much about this aspect of the game lol. Rest of the analysis was very good though.
I disagree that this game is comparable to a blind test of obedience. At the start you explain the mechanics, and mention how you can "skip a day of feeding to save money". Later you mention how throughout the game you can lose arbitrarily, or be in need of backup money. You mentioned "a train track that kills 5 people, verses none", but in reality it's "a train track that maybe kills some people, and causes an inconvenience for others who usually deserve it; OR your family members die and you end up in jail for life". I think what you're missing is that beginners aren't aware of any kind of money saving mechanics, and on top of that they do believe they're going to change the world for the better / get a good ending by being loyal to either side.
Right, but that belief that you're going to get the good ending comes from listening to either side's words over their actions. You have evidence during your playthrough that both sides aren't necessarily good, so continuing to do what they say despight this leads into what I talk about in the video. Also, as you play, a game over just sets you back a day, and you can go back to any day of your playthrough. So while beginners may have trouble in the first 10 or even 20 days, there will be a point in any play through that they will actively make a choice to do something that will end up hurting someone because it's what they were told to do. I also think the beginner argument is a little flat. Remember, beginners are letting people through constantly on accident. The game goes out of it's way to make it clear when someone knows their papers aren't in order, but they desperately need you help. So the game knows that it's giving you the option to go against the rules to help this person in need. If your family is literally starving, sure, I think that's a good reason to not help them and this video may not apply to you. However, if your family isn't, and you KNOW that helping this person doesn't hurt you, then I think the video still apllies.
Well, by objective standards I failed it. Yes, I helped people but everytime I though I have enough no fine ditations or funds to cover them - it didnt cost me anything so…
34:23 the serious monotone voice with visual of deliberate determination to get citations and organization is funniest thing my brainrot-mind could handle
I respect that you remind to subscribe but clarify that it should be done after having watched the video, thus being able to actually gauge the qualities.
I don’t need to ask because unfortunately my life has already been full of these choices. I grew up in an abusive household and I had to make choices. I regret in knowing that all my choices weren’t good ones to just survive. I try to undo some of the damage I have done despite everyone telling me it’s not my fault that I was just a child. But I have also seen my consequences play out. My step brother still believes he was an evil person who has walked down the path of becoming a good person. I now stand on the moral quandary of either telling him the truth that he was the scapegoat and his journey was built on a lie. Or I can withhold the information and let him live blissfully ignorant feeling empowered by his quest. I’m glad a game like this exists so people can test their limits in a safe environment. Even though 2 decades later I can tell myself I’m a good person who has changed, it can’t change what I have already done in the past.
If you wanna play something similar in real life go into customer service industry. :) The jokes about people showing up with their papers not in order and huge discrepancy is something see in customer services. Got tons of stupid people who put nick names or some other stupid joke name on their account and when they call in they get made that they can't provide the name on the account. It's like, "I'm Jane Doe! What do you mean my name is not on the account. It's MY Account...(Bunch of ranting)" Mean while I'm look at an account with the name like Party Girl, Queen Bee, or some other stupid nickname. It's like I'm not sorry you're a dumb F* who can't be bother to use their real name or remember your childish alias on accounts that have financial data and/or other personal stuff resulting in the lose of purchased content, photo collection, or whatever. Part of being an adult is being able to manage your own accounts.
Im afraid that IVE already seen other videos about this game, so its already spoiled for me, and im never intending to play it, so im watching this video anyway! How much does the game cost again?
its a nice theory but you cant really use the milgrim experiement here. even if you make some mistakes you cant just let everyone in if they have a story, they might have a bomb or weaponry or drugs
When this game came out - I thought it was a fascinating, complex, utterly realistic look into the reality of the soviet union. These days, I'm thinking that it's just the reality of russians all over again. I'm not asking for pity, and I don't think we deserve it, just wanted to share that this game still taps into something real and harsh. The industry needs more brave titles like this - ones that leave you raw with real understanding of something you Really didn't want to think about, experiences that leave you reevaluating your current views and lifestyle.
I don't think I agree with your interpretation of Obristan ending. You're assuming that Obristan has the same system of citations, that they have the same system of penalties for people not doing a good job, but it didn't come across that way to me. It felt like the person in the other booth was thinking "I'm not being paid enough to listen to your sob story, I'm not being paid enough to scrutinize anything". The system of incentives could be completely different. There is another game that is a clone of Papers Please, "Not Tonight". It isn't nearly as good, it tries to do a political commentary, very poorly, and you are playing as a club bouncer. You are screening out underage kids, those that don't have the right dress code, those who have incorrect tickets, etc. But you don't get paid for the people you reject, you only get paid for the people you let through. And, yeah, you get citations if you get something incorrect, but, with that payment system in place, you are trying to get in as many people as possible, and most of them that the game would generate would have to have everything in order. So do I scrutinize everything to make sure I don't let in the people who shouldn't be there to weed out may be 10% of improper customers, and decrease my productivity by 80%, or do I just mindlessly click approve? By the end of that game, I was mostly doing the latter. That's what I thought Obristan agents were doing. But the more messed up things in this game if you try to think about it is that the government apparently knows who should have been let in and who shouldn't have been, and that they themselves are right 100%, and they are able to catch you messing up every single time. Meaning that your job is basically superfluous. It is a game mechanic in place for you to try to not mess up, but if such a system existed in real life...
never thought about any of it that way, honestly, now i wish i had a recording of my first playthrough of the game ps what's the movie in the background in chapter 1
Nah if you insult the guy who decides if you enter the country or not you shouldn’t be surprised if he just tells you to kick rocks. I didn’t do that but there are worse decisions in this game than “oh you don’t like my poster? Well I don’t like your face, get out of my booth”
Though I’m of a similar thought. When someone insulted me or my boys drawings I would scan their paperwork like a hawk, begging for a reason to deny or jail them.
Great video, but why not talk about your character’s family more? Like having to pay for food and rent and the illness that your child gets? “Sorry kiddo, I don’t have enough money for your medicine because I let some stranger’s wife through who didn’t have her papers. Guess you’re gonna die.” Makes the “good decisions” more complicated when your family is at stake.
Buddy people will look at blatant criticisms of capitalism like the korean film parasite and squid game and go "ah yes communism sure does suck" so i wouldn't say that people are all that skilled at telling what communism is
For all the people in the comments proving they wouldn't pass the milgram test (as in would deliver 450V) and are somehow proud of it, thank you all for making the world a worse place.
If you dont follow the rules of the government your getting killed or arrested (doesn’t matter if its fair or not, like for example that you have to let the boss sister go through the border) so does thag mean that they take care of you?
4:45 I actually thought that the death rate would be a lot higher. I never would have expected 400+ deaths and 5000+ escape attempts, I thought it would be closer to 10000 deaths and 500 escapes.
This games no joke, everyone should play it. I'm still traumatized from my first play through, then those guys attacking in the second playthrough🥶. I'm on my third go🫣...
If you liked this video please like it and subscribe. I really loved papers please, and when I started making this video I knew it would do horribly, but I really wanted to do it anyway. In order to make videos like this successful I'll need to appear more favorable than I do now to the algorithm, so any interaction with my video is helpful. Also feel free to follow me on my twitter. Thanks!
Twitter - twitter.com/AngelOfThePast_
I don’t know if the man who asked me to deny his stamp is really a slam dunk. I got ending 20 on my first play-through, and I believe I was fully moral in my decisions. Most of the cases brought up by the people trying to pass, are either the result of their irresponsibility or something I have no proof that is the truth.
The man that asked for the denial stamp wanted me to take a risk on whether my family would eat that day, so that he could change the terms on his deal. The women sad they’re going to kill her, but that could as well be a lie, as people are prone to do.
The only person I let pass intentionally was Elisa, because I trusted Sergiu, and I deemed him and her worthy of such a risk. Remaining impartial for the sake of not being naive is not immoral in my opinion. Arstotzkas tyranny made no difference to me.
But, good job on the video. It draws interesting parallels between the video game and Milgram’s experiment. It helps remind one of their first run. Hope this helps with the algorithm.
@@irithyllian5150 Like I said it's all good fun. I don't think I'm the end all be all, and I wouldn't even say someone is a bad person if they purposefully turned people away because they were rude. It is a game after all. I just noticed the similarities between this game and the Milgram Experiment. Listening to authority isn't necessarily the immoral thing either, and my logic only tracks if you truly count Arstotzka as immoral, which there is no absolute evidence for. I would even say getting ending 20 is more inline with Kant's moral philosophy.
As for the guy who asked for a red stamp, he asked you to get a citation, but offered you 10 credits, which would only cost you and your family if he was your 4th citation of the day. So I wouldn't say he was necessarily taking a risk to let your family eat.
And I do greatly appreciate any help with the algorithm! (I like interaction more because it's nice to see people engaged, but the algorithm helps with that.)
@@AngelOfThePast Of course, don’t worry. I didn’t see it as an attack on my character, but merely as a philosophical outlook on my actions in relation to Milgram test.
As for the bribe, I guess I rejected him so fast, that I don’t remember XD. But I see now why that case is a really good razor for justifications.
@AngelOfThePast I'm curious, if you were to replay the game so well that you could easily feed your family and essentially had a carpe blanche to break protocol for whoever you wanted (provided you didn't go out blindly letting every randomly generated entrant in), who would you break protocol for?
My list boils down to exactly three people:
-The Antegrian wife you'd be otherwise separating from husband and leaving for death in Antegria
-The Kolechian whose only chance of survival is the risky medical procedure outlawed in Kolechian
-Sergiu's Elisa, who I know is unable to legally obtain the proper documents for reasons beyond her control
In literally every other case I don't feel any real moral obligation to help the person out. I know of no reason why the Imporian mother can't simply have her entry permit renewed. I don't know why the Republian guy with the watch wants to get into the country so bad, so urgent. Helping the unitedfed father hunt for Simon Wens would be endangering more children should he fail. The unitedfed guy asking for a Red Stamp has already agreed to a work contract, so his green stamp is entirely on him.
In a real world scenario, I imagine that most of the randomly generated entrants have sob story just as compelling, if not more so, than most of the scripted entrants who actually tell you why they need entry so bad. I see breaking protocol to deny the red stamp man as equivalent to denying a randomly generated entrant, as far as I'm concerned at least.
i still remember my first playtough, i went out of money trying to help those who i consider good people i went bankrupt next run i help ezic, and i thought i was doing the right thing, later i did arstotska and it feel horible when i need to arrest jorji, and denied almost everyone with a special dialoge, i aprove elisa, and its intresting i never saw papers please like that, you got a new suscriber!
Different endings? What subversive Kolechian slander is this? There is only one ending: Unlocking endless mode by getting a sweet government job. Glory to Arstotzka!
Glory to Arstotzka
Glory to Arstotzka!
Glory to Arstotzka
glory to Arstotzka.
Glory to Arstotzka.
The Obristan ending could also be the result of the inspector just not being competent at his job. Rather than any unspoken bonds, or sympathy towards you, he could have seen the passports and re-entry tickets and decided "eh, they look fine". Maybe he hesitated when he noticed the final set of papers didn't look quite right, but just shrugged and decided that letting you through would be the easier option since Obristan policies are much more lax than Arstozkan ones. In short, you and your family were just lucky.
This was my interpretation when I first saw this ending as well. I think it's a case of both the inspector is a bit incompetent at his job (evident by the fact that you notice how horrible the documents are and he doesn't) and that Obristan's immigration requirements are way more lax than Arstotzka's (evident by the fact that you only needed a passport and a ticket to enter). The inspector not caring why you visit could also explain both situations.
Although this video has shown me a different interpretation of this scene and I could honestly see it either way now
I always read the Obristan Ending as the border control agent being "worse" and not spotting the forgery, us getting lucky. Somehow, the much more gutpunching idea of him actively letting us through despite all we may or may not have done, showing compassion, never occurred to me
I'm glad that you went to the trouble of explaining the Berlin Wall to younger viewers who may not necessarily be familiar with it historically. Culturally, it was a huge deal back in the 80s, not just for Europeans but for everyone who was alive at the time. It's difficult to really explain that decade and how bad it was for people living there until you actually know the background to it all. We definitely don't want younger generations to let all this happen again just because they didn't know what led up to it.
There are people not knowing what the Berlin wall was? Fuck I'm getting old
I probably wouldn't have known what the wall would be until much later in my life but my dad was born in West Germany so I learned about it pretty early on in my life.
Watching jacksepticeye play was chilling. When I played for the first time, I did a mental calculation of "can I afford it" and then I decided I can when that event happened.
im more of an EZIC fan, but sure they ask you to kill people but you must make sacrifices.
-Kordon Kallo the 4th EZIC agent
i disagree with your analysis of the Obristan immigration agent. The only reason I granted someone with incorrect documents entry as an inspector was because they had a compelling story. The Obristan agent didn't even care we were visting relatives and shut the blinds in our face, so I believe that Obristan immigration is just more lenient and they aren't as controlling as Arstotzkan immigration. Also the fact that Obristan is still on the entry ticket stage while Arstotzka had moved on to the combined access permit and vaccination card. He probably just saw we all had Obristan passports and let us through.
Saying he doesn't care . . . isn't necessarily the truth. If he is going to go against his government, he is going to do so while pretending that he isn't. That way, you still maintain a reputation as loyal, and you are less likely to be investigated.
I agree, either Cobrastan isn't as fussy as Arstotska, or the Cobrastan inspector isn't as competent, maybe both. It's likely that Cobrastan isn't getting suicide bombers every couple of days and don't need to be as strict. And it's possible that even though the passports are fake, they're not fake in a way that would allow him to deny them. Jorji's passport is always visibly fake (the passport number isn't in the same format as every real passport) but this is not a valid reason to deny him.
The Cobrastan inspector *doesn't* necessarily intend to help the player. He doesn't care about the player's story and he doesn't know we're from Arstotska. He might not even know what's going on there. After all, we only hear small bits of news from the other countries.
And it seems like Arstotska is mostly reacting to the frequent terrorist attacks. Even up to the last day, people are still going there for work, as tourists, whatever, even for asylum.
Finally, it's not really viable to only confiscate passports from people who you would normally detain, or even deny. If you want to escape with your family, you have to confiscate most of the Cobrastan passports you see. It's not a win-win scenario at all. It's a matter of being desperate enough to cause serious problems for other people (and risk your life if your plan fails) to save your family.
@@fluffysheap if you confiscate and deny them its only an inconvenience to them, it's not as troublesome to get a new passport while not being stuck in Arstotska.
My first death/ending in this game was being jailed after tattling with the Ezic paperwork. I was outraged!
Speaking of outrage, I can't believe this video wasn't recommended to me until over two years after its release.
There's a note about the Milgram Experiment; the actor would beg and cry for the shocks to stop. Still more than half of the people would continue.
I think TV Tropes summarized this game very well: "Banality of evil: The game".
Because that's essentially what it is. What could be more banal than bureaucracy? A paper pusher, who follows the rules to a T, no sign of emotions like a machine. It's very easy to hide behind the rules and the hierarchy and put the blame on them. You calling it a Milgram experiment is quite accurate.
First time I played I got one of the three "good" endings. I've proven loyal and got to keep the job. Funnily enough it was an accident, because I DID want to help EZIC. I was just top utterly stupid to do so. Too caught up in making sure I get the documents right, so I can feed my family, which is the one thing I actually pulled off. Food and heat nearly consistently, maybe even one apartment upgrade. And the crayons for my dear son. So I kinda slipped into being loyal, when I wanted to help the nebulous rebellion, but didn't recognize both of their agents and didn't want to kill Khaled Istom or the man in red.
That said, despite the loyalty I still let some people through, even when their papers weren't correct. The woman escaping from Antegria is one such example. Same with Eliza or the person who really needs a life-saving surgery that is only really offered in Arstotzka. The game even incentivizes this. Almost as if the Arsotzkan government, on some level, understands human nature enough to allow for two citations with no issue. Human error? Fine? Letting some poor soul through? Urgh, fine. Just make sure it's the exception.
Escaping to Obristan was not an option. Why? Well did you see what happens to those with no passport? This is the one part of the video I have to disagree with. Stealing the passports is not a "mild inconvenience". These regimes there don't care the slightest about that. You might doom those people to never get back home, because the passport was taken. And even if it is documented and Arstotzka would be willing to let them back to Obristan (there is no indication of bad relations with Obristan after all), there is no guarantee Arstotzka will survive the EZIC rebellion. Will they keep that promise? You might strand several people there with no hope of going back home to save you and your family. So even Obristan isn't all good, it's still grey.
And did the Obristan inspector really see through the passports? He seemed like he doesn't care at all and just wants to collect a paycheck. Your character saying the passports look like crap might be paranoia or just them being super critical.
I do like the nuance that is shown here. While the speed at which policies and documents are introduced is crazy, nearly all of the policies have their reason. Impors trade sanctions is one of them. Every rule, as weird as they may seem in a vacuum, have their reason to exist here. Later on the government actually simplifies the bureaucracy somewhat by putting several documents together. Even the inspector says it makes his job easier. And if Arstotzka survives EZIC, it actually manages to ease the tensions with Kolechia (which EZIC didn't want to do). Plus it does seem to do very well when it comes to healthcare and the press can still criticize government policies somewhat, so their grip on the press isn't as bad as in, say, Republia. In fact compared to the Republia times both Arstotzka and EZIC are downright benevolent to the player. You do well in Arstotzka? You get cleared despite discrepancies and keep your job. They also acknowledge you cannot be perfect and are thus willing to hand out two citations with no monetary punishment per day. You help EZIC? They will protect you and your family. In Republia? You serve Republia well, your family gets killed. You help the rebellion, your family gets killed. For all their faults: Arstotzka and EZIC keep their promises to you, if you do what they want. They reward your loyalty.
All in all it was a good video and I like that this game can still spark a discussion about its themes and story. Well done. :)
For the argument that the passports look like crap: you're literally trained to find forgeries, of course to your now-trained eye, the passports will look worse. But what if the Obristan inspector is new or isn't as incentivized not to mess up? Is it them being negligent or you being hypercritical, really?
I love Papers Please for its nuances so, so much, because it paints in swathes of grey with only a few splotches of stark red in there.
There's a reason it inspired a short film and the short film hit as hard as the game did: the game managed to make for an extremely compelling story that can be examined with multiple angles and yield multiple answers.
@@neoqwerty I fully agree with your assessment and I do like that it's up to the player to interpret. Personally I lean towards the inspector being hyper-critical due to being trained to find forgeries and being worried about failing to get into Obristan. .
Having played this game, I actually passed the test on my first playthrough. I constantly bent the rules to benefit the travelers so long as it wouldn't endanger Arstotzka. One of the big examples is that if someone had incorrect sex and that was the only problem I would never ever detain them. And yes, I denied Red Stamp Man.
As a transgender woman, thank you.
Great video, though I'm surprised you didn't bring up the story of Sergiu and Elisa.
If you look at the Beholder series, which is a little similar in setting but different in game play, there's actually a Papers, Please protagonist character *from* the Obristan ending. Not canon but fun.
God I never thought of the Obristan ending inspector knowing our situation and that completely flips everything
This was an amazing video. It seems you don’t post anymore but I want you to know that you did a great job at not only drawing the connection to real life morality tests but also building suspense towards the Obristan ending. I already knew what happened as I played the game but I was on the edge of my seat thinking he might deny entry for some reason. Hats off to you well done!
19:07 You aren't actually "supposed" to detain Shae. You never get instructions from Dimitri or in the bulletin to detain anyone. Just the power to do it and a kickback from the guards to incentivize it. The inspector has actually a lot of discretion in what to do, and anyone ought to realize that arresting Shae is probably not the best choice.
You can simply deny Shae entry, and it will make Dimitri angry, but if he's not already angry with you, you won't be arrested. Of course, other than the citation (which is generally not a big deal) the cost of allowing her to pass is low. She is never a terrorist.
The theme of the game is pretty cohesive. The power structure does not really care if you are competent or honest. They only care if you are loyal and subservient. EZIC isn't really any different, just different people in power.
Finally, I don't think this game counts as a Milgram experiment. The Milgram experiment is shocking - pun good but not intended - because it shows how people will harm others, just because authorities say to, *and* in service of a trivial purpose (a supposed science experiment of obviously dubious value). Enforcement of laws is not a trivial purpose. Jorji is personally harmless but drug smuggling leads to serious problems for society. Any random person with a sob story might be a criminal (why do you think Jorji needs fake passports? He can't get a real one because he is a known drug smuggler).
Nor does the old "just following orders is no excuse" saw apply. The reason that ever even became a thing is because the orders were crimes against humanity. It does not mean that people can disregard legitimate orders just because they want to.
So the real question is, if the inspector is going to bend the rules, is he going to actually make things better because of it? One person can make a difference, but will it be for the good?
In the film, the inspector makes poor judgments. He denies Elisa and arrests Jorji, and then, finally, succumbs to a sob story... Only to find that he has allowed a terrorist.
This is all just my opinion but...
I was sort of thinking this as well. Rules are there for a reason and any person with a sob story could possibly be a terrorist trying to get through. Of course both country's governments might be bad guys in their own right... but that doesn't change the fact that any person with a sob story could be bad actors themselves. Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right.
I consider a lot of the decisions you could make more so of a grey area where either kind of logic is valid. You could let someone with a convincing story through because you want to believe that they are good, and they have a convincing story to go with it. Or you could deny them since there have been so many bad people and people with incorrect paperwork that you are denying on a day-by-day basis anyway, that it's likely they are just lying or exaggerating things, however convincing they might sound. So you find it likely that they could be bad-actors themselves.
I mean terrorist attacks happen on a day-by-day basis in the game. It's not unlikely for someone you let through just because their story sounds convincing isn't a terrorist themselves, indirectly harming or even killing many other people. But you could also be indirectly ruining that persons life or even killing them by denying them... so it's kind of a grey area what kind of decision you make in those situations.
When I first played I mostly followed the rules as I was worried about my family dying and felt like if I was in that position I would be most focused on my immediate family members. I wasn’t very good at helping Ezic as I struggled with their codes and I also did tend to not let people through I felt deserved it because I wasn’t great at the game and was worried the family would starve from too many citations
I'll have to disagree about Pope purposefully hiding the ideology of Arstotzka. He's said in interviews that it's a communist country, plus the way soldiers dress with their ushankas and even the spelling of the name Arstotzka all point to it being something like cold war Soviet Russia.
The reason there's an argument is because gameplay wise it's much more interesting to go with a capitalist system. Getting paid for processing more people is very capitalist, and this way you're incentivized as a player to go fast when checking papers, which will lead to mistakes, drama, etc. If you got paid an unchanging government rate like they would've done with communism there would be no tension.
Same thing with you buying new apartments. Under communism you'd just be assigned a communal apartment from the government and that would be it, but that would leave the player with very little to work for beyond food and heat.
More importantly, capitalism and communism aren't mutually exclusive. Unsurprisingly as well, since they both come from the same source.
Communism has always failed extremely fast in practice and gets replaced by some flavor of totalitarian police state. This is not an incorrect representation of a Communist country, becuase this is what the Soviet Union had become just before it fell. Such is the fate of all nations that call themselves Communist, refusing to drop the label because it means admitting they failed at the core pillar of their national identity.
@@BloodwyrmWildheartcapitalism and communism *are* mutually exclusive. Communism is a classless, stateless, moneyless society. There is no “communist country” because communism requires that borders and countries as a concept be retired. Like star trek, theres not different countries and shit on earth anymore. The regions and cities and shit all still have their names, but they are one “country”, the federation. They dont usually use money themselves, people just work towards doing what they wanna do. Theres no poor or rich people, just people. Its a utopian ideal that wont be achieved in our lifetime, it requires a lot of good faith cooperation, and the idea it and capitalism can coexist misunderstands what these things are.
The word communism just became a buzzword after the red scare, as the USSR was founded with the intent of putting marxist theory into practice, but all attempts at progress were immediately overturned when stalin came to power. He used the ideals of marx as an appeal to the workers who were fed up with capitalism and the west, then he wiped out all the actual marxists and got to work being a state capitalist dictator. Hitler did the same thing. Its very easy to use marxist ideals to manipulate people because marx was right, its just that a few fascists put on a smile and with a little charisma whisked up a following and then dumped them in the mud for their own gain, and now the west goes “omg THAT’S communism?” And, be it for or against, runs with it. Thats not what marx intended at all.
Again, star trek’s human federation is very much utopian communist, and again, it is utopian. Its not gonna be achieved through voting in someone or a single revolution or whatever. Itd take years of pushing, a lot of cooperation, and sometimes, well, _usually_ people with that kinda power are corruptible.
Socialism is the transitory period, it begins with the workers having control of businesses, instead of a ceo like say elon musk who sits on top of everyone, does basically nothing but sit around tweeting all day and maybe approving and denying shit, and yet still gets ALL the money, the workers would be the ones in charge. Itd be democratic ownership, not monarchic or totalitarian purchased ownership. Democratic companies is fundamental to the shift to socialism, its better for the workers, and we have data on this kind of system via worker cooperatives, a type of business like i described. These are much more likely to survive their early days than regular new businesses, make workers happier, and are very productive, cus people like being treated well at their job. Happier workers means better productivity. Id suggest reading up on them, cus theyre an actual step in the right direction and are gaining traction
I think that Arstotzka going for a socialist veneer while being capitalist is even better, as the capitalist restoration in Russia and China also had the people and state thinking they were still socialist for a while, despite evidence to the contrary. And compared to Kolechia and Antegria, they are pretty ethical and decent. In comparison.
Its not capitalism lmao, giving fake money only spendable in your government is not capitalism whatsoever, nor the fact that the player is assigned a government job and therefore literally not working in the private sector
Bruh i just watched 3 of your videos today. These are incredible and so interesting. How does this have less than 600 views?? liked and subscribed my dude
Thanks! It's because my thumbnail game for this video is not good lol. I appreciate the praise though! I will keep on keeping on!
I cheated in a way that only games let me cheat, and I'm sadly not sorry about it, I kinda do this in real life too, but of course not to this satisfying level:
I improved my speed to a point where I was always kinda comfortable with a couple citations and I just administered them as I saw fit
if the person looked like they were really telling the truth about their sorrows I'd help him, if they looked like they lied (and you know the game makes it very obvious when people lie because they do it very badly), I would reject them without too many qualms
I might be too influenced by my culture, latino cultures inherit the importance of family above all from mediterranean cultures, so if I had to do a couple of bad things to strangers to get my family to live better I just did it and I never really worried too much about it. That was my first play through. As I learned to kinda speed run the game I had some extra money to waste helping strangers when I felt they deserved it.
I might have been playing a cruel but just god now that I think about it, but "just" according to my own parameters.
I guess I'd be a terrible person in time of war, if it guaranteed my family food and shelter.
the question is, if there are a few that just lie unnoticeable
I love it when youtube recommends me a 2 year old video! You got a new sub
"has it ever came to do or die? youve got to rise above the rest" another quote from the impression that i get
I love how you used some footage from the short film
For me the moral of this game is keeping your family alive and well. Can't let someone pass without the correct paperwork cause that endangers my family. You learn that the day that the Arstotzkan lady blows up 50 meters from you and kills innocent guards. Anyway, a great game.
I get you. In addition to being a Milgrim Experiment, the Trolley Problem is also present.
I would decide the ‘shock’ on a case by case basis,
If I only had 1 or 2 citations that day, they would be accepted. If I had 3 or more, I would normally reject them. Elsia got accepted every time. Red stamp man always got rejected. Antegrian wife got accepted as I wouldn’t have many citations early on. Jorjis bribes would be accepted every time without fail. The guy who needed surgery would be accepted.
But on the other hand, I would reject the lady who complains about her running late for a bus, I would always look to detain the lady who insults the drawing, Shae would be denied every time.
Basically I would reject or detain anyone who was rude lol.
I actually just thought of one REALLY messed up thing you could do. You know how you can just take your time when processing somebody after 6PM? I thought of something similar to that. Since the day ends at 6PM, you can just start dying everybody and only slow down when you get 2 citations around 4PM (or accepting everybody after the 'reason' stamp has been introduced after checking face/weight/gender). Instead of treating it as an opportunity cost where you miss 5 credits, you'll instead just rush through 5 applicants in the time that it would take you to process just 1. Even if you get 2 citations, who cares since they won't deduct your pay anyways.
Came back to watch after buying and playing like you recommended. Whoa. Such a simple game being thought of as a Milgram experiment. Its so strange how you feel like a failure for letting people slide with less paperwork yet it feels like ultimately the right thing to do after playing for awhile. I had to replay Day 1-3 like 6 times before i got all the rules and idea of how the game was played down pat. Haha. Because i refused to look up how to play or anything like an idiot. Great video dude.
I've replayed this game a lot. It's good, I use a cheat sheet now with all of the rules on it. I don't get it perfect all of the time, but it makes things cleaner and more realistic (I would definitely have paper copies of everything in real life). Yeah the inherent need to do what authority tells you is insane. Games are really good at pulling that out of you because you inherently try to do what the developers intended. We get so used to following the rules we miss opportunities that lay outside of our perceived bubble of operation. Games are cool.
0:05 it's not about what the game teaches me about myself but how I choose to move this character with the choices the video game presents to me
This is an excellent video, you perfectly explained the themes and the moral dilemma of the game as a whole. Papers Please is an awesome game!!!
My understanding is that there is a dilemma between the humanitarian rights that feel intuitive and the realities of enforcing a border. Setting aside a state's right to sovereignty over its jurisdiction, applying border enforcement in practice inevitably incentivizes acting inconsistently with commonly held democratic principles. I think Jose Mendoza argues we ought to have rules akin to jus in bello for immigration. Another argument proposes more porous borders may decrease immigration and reduce permanent residents as they will have more autonomy over mobility. Perhaps the state isn't as innocent as it seems; after all, they act inconsistently to defend something arbitrary like a wall. One can even imagine a US-like state deporting millions of immigrants to protect a document that states all are equal, but maybe that document was never candid.
Detaining everyone you can as the inspector is incentivized by a kickback from the security guard, arstotzka doesn't think the inspector have his judgement biased by a payday for such arrests, he should be exercising his discretion, so when your boss punishes you he surely goes overboard, but
Interesting. Very interesting indeed.
Could you set the timestamps to the different parts of your video?
Oh Gosh yeah, of course! I can't believe I forgot! Thank you for pointing this out.
I watched a bunch of your videos in a row and I think its really really good, you did an amazing job.
The creator of this game is truly a master of game design.
I'll never forget my first playthrough, I was barely squeaking by, I refused to co-operate with the rebellion, and I had mostly gone by the book... then the ife came up... I honestly didn't think much about the situations prior to that, but that one stood out to me... I could almost imagine the desperation in the man's voice. I agonized over it so long that the day ended, and I knew I wasn't feeding my family, so fuck it I thought. I let her through. It was only after the day ended that I realized that I didn't save her because I was good, but because I was just burnt out. It hurt to think about, alot.
Goddamn, when I watched this video it has been a while when I played the game. But I remembered my first time choices when you asked them. I still approved the man who asked to be denied, I denied the woman who said she'll be killed if not. I remember thinking, why endanger my job for a ludicrous request for the former, and simply not believing the woman for the latter.
But the real gut punch was your interpretation of the Obristan ending. It's the ending I got and I was simply relieved I saved my family, I didn't realize that it wasn't me that did. Wow what a humbling realization.
Hopefully, when faced with this in reality we can make different choices. Perhaps failing the Milgram test the first time is a necessity.
42:40 I think the the Obristan inspector would only get one very long citation as the passports are technically under one person the Inspector we play as handing them all over at once.
this was FASCINATING, and an excellent take on an excellent game. very well made. instant sub
Great video!
It made me want to play the game again. I can tell I probably did not get as much out of it as I could.
My issue with this kind of game is that I stress the hell out. I never felt like I had enough time for anything and never got that immersed into the story. The main parts, yes, to some extent. But I do not recall noticing the stories people told me, nor did I recognize most of the recurring characters. I played it several years ago, so it could just be faulty memory, but I think another issue was that it was a game I would play for 30-60 minutes. Put down and then continue several days if not weeks later. IT was so stressful that I needed a break every two in-game days (or something like that)
The crux of my point is that I probably stressed so much about rushing people (correctly) through the booth to really get the full in-game experience. Sure, I do remember sometimes helping people in need, but those moments were overshadowed by hurrying up the process so the family didnt die.
I also only played through it once because of the stress factor.
I wonder how common it is for other people to have had the same "issues" playing the game.
Nice work mate
I've never thought about the Obristan ending like that. I've always assumed that he works with Jorji and when these super shit passports come in, he knows they're Jorji's friends and approves them.
32:15 I guess I'm a sociopath
Thank you for making this video. I own the game and have tried to play it a multitude of times, but I sends me straight into a whirlwind of depression and I drop it. The moral dilemmas overwhelm me and now I know why
I always thought the guy in Obristan just was shitty at his job and that’s why he let you through and that was part of the sick joke
To be honest, this makes me have a Lotta respect for just border patrol officers and people that have to do that type of job in general just by playing this game. It is absolutely wild and how much my perspective has shifted.
Idk, just like neither of the governments are "good guys", neither sticking entirely to your morals nor following the rules of the authority is appropriate. Upholding the morals agreed upon by society might make you a "good" person, but the resulting consequences can also wrong others that were innocent as well
What the fuck i see you're video last month !! You deserve so more view !!! I like So much you're work !! I hope you will got more visibility !!
Don't need the test to know I'm a somewhat decent enough person
Meaning I aint a really good or bad guy just some guy who looks out for himself and tries not to activly fuck over anybody.
I can imagine the reason the government arrested the Inspector’s sister is so they can levy his family like how North Korea threatens their citizens family for desertion.
Instant like for the mighty mighty bosstones quote
I mean its a game and yes you can explore all choices thats what makes the game fun. First run i did do what i felt i would do and ended up doing what i was told for the government while letting ppl through that were in tough jams. But no i dont think this game says anything about you. People play videogames to make decisions they normally wouldnt just to see. I doubt the decisions made for most people during their run are things they would decide irl. Could be wrong and as i said i played my first run how i would irl but yea. It being a game is a valid counterpoint. You might be thinking too much about this aspect of the game lol. Rest of the analysis was very good though.
I disagree that this game is comparable to a blind test of obedience.
At the start you explain the mechanics, and mention how you can "skip a day of feeding to save money".
Later you mention how throughout the game you can lose arbitrarily, or be in need of backup money.
You mentioned "a train track that kills 5 people, verses none", but in reality it's "a train track that maybe kills some people, and causes an inconvenience for others who usually deserve it; OR your family members die and you end up in jail for life".
I think what you're missing is that beginners aren't aware of any kind of money saving mechanics, and on top of that they do believe they're going to change the world for the better / get a good ending by being loyal to either side.
Right, but that belief that you're going to get the good ending comes from listening to either side's words over their actions. You have evidence during your playthrough that both sides aren't necessarily good, so continuing to do what they say despight this leads into what I talk about in the video. Also, as you play, a game over just sets you back a day, and you can go back to any day of your playthrough. So while beginners may have trouble in the first 10 or even 20 days, there will be a point in any play through that they will actively make a choice to do something that will end up hurting someone because it's what they were told to do.
I also think the beginner argument is a little flat. Remember, beginners are letting people through constantly on accident. The game goes out of it's way to make it clear when someone knows their papers aren't in order, but they desperately need you help. So the game knows that it's giving you the option to go against the rules to help this person in need. If your family is literally starving, sure, I think that's a good reason to not help them and this video may not apply to you. However, if your family isn't, and you KNOW that helping this person doesn't hurt you, then I think the video still apllies.
"Son, can't you just do cocaine and play Fortnite like normal people?"
Well, by objective standards I failed it. Yes, I helped people but everytime I though I have enough no fine ditations or funds to cover them - it didnt cost me anything so…
Bro the quality of this video is just insane ❤ Keep up the insane work dude 🔥 Liked and subbed 👑
34:23 the serious monotone voice with visual of deliberate determination to get citations and organization is funniest thing my brainrot-mind could handle
I respect that you remind to subscribe but clarify that it should be done after having watched the video, thus being able to actually gauge the qualities.
5:35 I wonder if he read the steam page's description?
I don’t need to ask because unfortunately my life has already been full of these choices. I grew up in an abusive household and I had to make choices. I regret in knowing that all my choices weren’t good ones to just survive. I try to undo some of the damage I have done despite everyone telling me it’s not my fault that I was just a child. But I have also seen my consequences play out. My step brother still believes he was an evil person who has walked down the path of becoming a good person. I now stand on the moral quandary of either telling him the truth that he was the scapegoat and his journey was built on a lie. Or I can withhold the information and let him live blissfully ignorant feeling empowered by his quest. I’m glad a game like this exists so people can test their limits in a safe environment. Even though 2 decades later I can tell myself I’m a good person who has changed, it can’t change what I have already done in the past.
I was having trouble following this line of thought until you brought up the jacksepticeye example, then it p much clicked for me
Could've covered the tokens a lot more tbh
If you wanna play something similar in real life go into customer service industry. :)
The jokes about people showing up with their papers not in order and huge discrepancy is something see in customer services. Got tons of stupid people who put nick names or some other stupid joke name on their account and when they call in they get made that they can't provide the name on the account. It's like, "I'm Jane Doe! What do you mean my name is not on the account. It's MY Account...(Bunch of ranting)" Mean while I'm look at an account with the name like Party Girl, Queen Bee, or some other stupid nickname.
It's like I'm not sorry you're a dumb F* who can't be bother to use their real name or remember your childish alias on accounts that have financial data and/or other personal stuff resulting in the lose of purchased content, photo collection, or whatever. Part of being an adult is being able to manage your own accounts.
Im afraid that IVE already seen other videos about this game, so its already spoiled for me, and im never intending to play it, so im watching this video anyway! How much does the game cost again?
Underrated.
unfairly few view. Very love Papers Please and your videos ♥️
2:44 movie name: Bridge Of Spies
I done the experiment and I am exploring All endings
Damn bro, BANGER tumbnail
Might be AI generated
its a nice theory but you cant really use the milgrim experiement here. even if you make some mistakes you cant just let everyone in if they have a story, they might have a bomb or weaponry or drugs
Glory to Arstotzka.
When this game came out - I thought it was a fascinating, complex, utterly realistic look into the reality of the soviet union.
These days, I'm thinking that it's just the reality of russians all over again. I'm not asking for pity, and I don't think we deserve it, just wanted to share that this game still taps into something real and harsh. The industry needs more brave titles like this - ones that leave you raw with real understanding of something you Really didn't want to think about, experiences that leave you reevaluating your current views and lifestyle.
well done
I don't think I agree with your interpretation of Obristan ending. You're assuming that Obristan has the same system of citations, that they have the same system of penalties for people not doing a good job, but it didn't come across that way to me. It felt like the person in the other booth was thinking "I'm not being paid enough to listen to your sob story, I'm not being paid enough to scrutinize anything". The system of incentives could be completely different.
There is another game that is a clone of Papers Please, "Not Tonight". It isn't nearly as good, it tries to do a political commentary, very poorly, and you are playing as a club bouncer. You are screening out underage kids, those that don't have the right dress code, those who have incorrect tickets, etc. But you don't get paid for the people you reject, you only get paid for the people you let through. And, yeah, you get citations if you get something incorrect, but, with that payment system in place, you are trying to get in as many people as possible, and most of them that the game would generate would have to have everything in order. So do I scrutinize everything to make sure I don't let in the people who shouldn't be there to weed out may be 10% of improper customers, and decrease my productivity by 80%, or do I just mindlessly click approve? By the end of that game, I was mostly doing the latter. That's what I thought Obristan agents were doing.
But the more messed up things in this game if you try to think about it is that the government apparently knows who should have been let in and who shouldn't have been, and that they themselves are right 100%, and they are able to catch you messing up every single time. Meaning that your job is basically superfluous. It is a game mechanic in place for you to try to not mess up, but if such a system existed in real life...
never thought about any of it that way, honestly, now i wish i had a recording of my first playthrough of the game
ps what's the movie in the background in chapter 1
Bridge of Spies
Two main things:
*Arstotzka the most glorious country in the world*
*Filthy Kolechia*
My only faction is Jorji
if you liked this video and the non good and evil of this game you should totally try a blind playthrough of Disco Elysium :D
Glory to Arstotzka
Grestin Is similar to Berlin
Can someone show this to the game grumps? I think they need the help lol
I just want to point out how it changes your cursor to look like a Mac cursor, too. Probably intentional.
Nah on some linux distros the cursor also look like that
I love watching on 2x speed
What is the movie in the back of the east-west Germany part?
Bridge of Spies.
If you read anarchist literature everything makes sense though
🙄
@@BloodwyrmWildheart Says the person with "race-realist" in their bio🤡🤡🤡🤡
Nah if you insult the guy who decides if you enter the country or not you shouldn’t be surprised if he just tells you to kick rocks. I didn’t do that but there are worse decisions in this game than “oh you don’t like my poster? Well I don’t like your face, get out of my booth”
That makes you petty. That doesn’t make you “the worst kind of person” lmao
Though I’m of a similar thought. When someone insulted me or my boys drawings I would scan their paperwork like a hawk, begging for a reason to deny or jail them.
I denied the wife before even checking properly because I wanted to deny her husband the love lmao.
What's that game at 19:34?
Great video, but why not talk about your character’s family more? Like having to pay for food and rent and the illness that your child gets?
“Sorry kiddo, I don’t have enough money for your medicine because I let some stranger’s wife through who didn’t have her papers. Guess you’re gonna die.” Makes the “good decisions” more complicated when your family is at stake.
Coming into Europe 2026
Buddy people will look at blatant criticisms of capitalism like the korean film parasite and squid game and go "ah yes communism sure does suck" so i wouldn't say that people are all that skilled at telling what communism is
clicking off for now
For all the people in the comments proving they wouldn't pass the milgram test (as in would deliver 450V) and are somehow proud of it, thank you all for making the world a worse place.
why would you betray the government when they're taking care of you? /gen
If you dont follow the rules of the government your getting killed or arrested (doesn’t matter if its fair or not, like for example that you have to let the boss sister go through the border) so does thag mean that they take care of you?
4:45 I actually thought that the death rate would be a lot higher. I never would have expected 400+ deaths and 5000+ escape attempts, I thought it would be closer to 10000 deaths and 500 escapes.
29:35 They literally didn't though.
...?
This games no joke, everyone should play it. I'm still traumatized from my first play through, then those guys attacking in the second playthrough🥶. I'm on my third go🫣...