I want to learn to curb these behaviors. I do not date or go out much anymore because I do not want to be hurt or hurt people. I cannot speak for all borderlines, but some of us are genuinely afraid we can’t be loved, so we self sabotage before we get hurt
There are no guarantees in life not to get hurt, it's a part of relationships and life, it's better to learn to deal with emotions maturely and respect boundaries. With borderlines it's the imaginary false narrative and the love / hate intensity that becomes very difficult to cope with, regulating emotions for 2 people is very difficult in a love relationship. Simular to narcissists, one is afraid to shatter their false narrative or imagined abandonment (walking on eggshells). When regulated and not acting on every percieved abandonment like a psychopath, borderlines i find can be very kind and loving partners.
6:19 - what to say, word for word 8:45 - psychopathic acting out 11:34 - “attachment impaired” 12:04 - objectification of others 12:59 - identity disturbance 13:40 - narcissism vs. borderline 14:55 - low tolerance for loneliness 18:17 - compulsive pleasing 20:02 - depression and anxiety 20:55 - fear of abandonment
8:45 My BPD girlfriend told me she loves me and how she is proud of our relationship, the day before going on vacation without me. She really did not want to go. I almost picked her up, as she had panic attack being there for one day. Then gradually, I presume, she entered that psychopathic state, and her defenses collapsed as she needed to adapt to new surroundings. As the time progressed, she started to avoid me, and finally after coming back, she broke up with me. Out of sight - out of mind is a real thing, and it is devastated for partners.
They're cheating scum bro, that's it. You're better off without a witch my friend. Focus on your dharma and how you're gonna get to heaven. Forget and leave the rest. Peace
When stressed, I have a tendency to lean towards Avoidant / Borderline coping mechanisms. I can honestly say that first phrase, "I am always here for you," gave me an immediate gut response. If my partner said that to me during conflicts it would go a long way to defusing the situation. Thank you for sharing these tips.
There are two aspects to doing what Prof Vaknin mentions here from what I have experienced: 1. You'll have to do this for the borderline, aka assuage her emotional distress with unwavering support but, if you ever need emotional support, you're almost surely not going to get it from her. 2. I personally did try literally every single line of those 4 - and I didn't just say these, I walked the walk, accepted her decisions to the detriment of my own life and yet it didn't matter in the end. I was left with damaged family ties while she left me and proceeded with some other person.
Yup! on #1 , Don't ever dare get sick and not be able to be her emotional tampon and personal sex toy 24-7 , She will go completely cold and toss you away like trash in a heartbeat after being the love of her life and soulmate lol .
@@rosariocannistraro3561 why does so many people reply in such sweeping generalized statements. Everyone is different. And I'm saying that even tho I experienced the same as you
I hear ya! Being attached to one is pure hell. To borrow a phrase from Deadpool : Life (with a borderline) is like a series of never ending train wrecks with brief commercial breaks of happiness (or bliss with a borderline. if normal is 10 it’s 15 with a borderline) It’s exhausting and you have to carry them and yourself at all times. I can’t do it. I need a partner to lean on occasionally. They just are not capable of holding any space for a partner. They are all consuming
Yeah, forget about 50/50 cooperation it’s really more like 99/1. During that microscopic chance you catch her in that 45 second window of stability. Stay off The Crazy Train. 20 years wasted here. I was told for years it only gets worse stop wasting your time, move on and find someone closer to your idea of normal and not in Chaos.
I definitely don’t understand the engulfment, but it’s there, I feel it and was so surprised to know it had a name. It just feels like it shouldn’t be there, but it is so powerful.
This is the cleareat description of the avoidant borderline i have ever seen. Thank you for explaining how the victim is trapped into such a twisted state wuth clarity and some empathy.
This post made me so hopeless. I am married to a borderline who refuses to get treatment. Since after honeymoon he asks for a divorce. We are coming up to a year now. I tried to reaffirm that I will never leave, but it doesn't work. I also said that I agree with divorce but it doesn't work. I love him more than I loved anyone. Marriage is a rollercoaster and it is killing me because I am not certain of anything with him. His behavior is so destructive that I think one day he will cheat just to hurt me. I am so lost. My life is upside down. I don't want to leave him but I think I should gather all my strength and help to divorce this man... otherwise I will end up in a mental institution. He understands a lot about psychology and uses my flaws to destroy me emotionally. I need help 😢
hold him accountable. the only real way out is to mortify them, tell them clearly what your expectations are and set boundaries if they dont follow them. You have to be willing to use their own behaviors against them somewhat or just walk away
A partner who uses your flaws to destroy you emotionally. This sounds really mean and maybe even abusive. It does sound like you need to call him out on this behavior and draw a firm boundary. “It is not ok for you to say xyz to me. It hurts me, and I feel like you are doing it intentionally. Are you doing this on purpose to hurt me? I will not tolerate you saying this to me anymore.” Then continue to encourage him to seek counseling. At this point, to stay sane and have an objective viewpoint, you would probably be well served to also see a therapist. Best wishes to you.
So we must tell them we love them, and we're never going to leave them, but by saying so we're probably making them leave us. I know I'm probably not understanding every little nuance on the topic, but it seems like there's no "winning" move (in terms of making both people on the relationship happy).
It's always all about them with borderlines. We are supposed to understand them and It's our fault that we don't understand them and learn to manage their behaviour and soothe them. They are like victim narcissists.
One of your best videos thus far as for me personally bc it really hit home to how I am & wish my loved ones understood me & how to help vs make my issues worse sometimes. I love them but still don’t know how to love myself & feel worthy of love 24/7. I sometimes feel confident but I quickly fade to feeling empty, alone, misunderstood, & disliked.
I am so happy I have stumbled upon your page. Your videos have helped me understand who I am and why I am the way I am. Also helping my partner understand me which is so important to me. I’ve always felt misunderstood and now I’m starting to feel understood. I’m not as impulsive as I used to be, and looking forward to living a healthy life in the future. Thank you for knowledge and time.
My late father had BPD, he would be 57 today. He died seven years ago, drove himself to suicide by substance abuse. As a diagnosed NPD in therapy for years, I'm still struggling to understand them. Needless to say that I'm dating, on and off, of course, a woman diagnosed with BPD. We are such a whirlwind of destruction but no matter what happens I cannot let go of her. Such a soul-wrenching experience. I have a feeling that she will never believe me, no matter what I do or say. And I'm probably doing it all wrong anyway. Except when painting. The only way to express myself is through oils and I think my works resonate with her.
@@missbcritiques9209I’m with a narc and I would love for him to truly love me but he doesn’t, doesn’t understand me and I think I’m being mentally abused. I hate relationships
Sounds like Gollum and The One Ring....ling Brother's Circus. Thank you for elucidating the struggle of living with the Borderline (on the borderline of sanity.)
To know what it feels like to love a person and to be loved by them. That’s it for me. Never want to engage in the dynamic where love is pain and love is an addiction. Some kind of Sado Mach dynamic with a person who can switch to such hate filled and empty of any sympathies and greedy and disgusting behaviours. I wish them no harm but it’s futile and hopeless to think it’ll ever be any different.
I had been blocked, but got unblocked out of the blue just yesterday, so I sent her a message saying those four sentences to her. Now I'm blocked again 🙃. Apparently I'm now weak for not being able to leave her alone, I'm pathetic, trying to resurrect a fantasy. All I said was, exactly as you recommended. Don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting you advised correctly. But this has been the impact, which I kind of expected. I believe she unblocked me because she wanted to hear from me and react dramatically. Funny thing is, there are other channels through which I can contact her so blocking is really only a symbolic gesture. But I believe the most objectionable thing I said to her was to remind her that she was loved and that no matter what she does she will always have someone here for her. That's difficult for her to accept. So now what, I leave her alone? I've said my piece and I should just let it ferment in her mind?
@@vygotsky17 So sorry to hear man but your not alone in this! i have been blocked/ghosted in 10 days now counting....i dont want to break up my no contact policy but i really want to , maybe it is best to wait and see what she`ll do.
@@pitbullash Sorry man. It's rough. From raw and recent experience, reaching out to her will push her further away. It will confirm something in her mind. Every attempt from me to reach out, reassure her, love her, was responded to with paranoid, abusive, irrational accusations. Love = abuse to a BPD. My complication is that I see her at work. Occasionally I stopped her in the corridor to say hello, there still seemed to be a look of attraction/desire from her, but the suggestion that we talk from me was met with anger. It may be the same for you, but I think she really wants the fantasy of me, but if I'm the one proposing it she perceives it as if I'm behaving in a predatory way. It's messed up, but that's the nature of the condition. She always said that she wanted a relationship with me but it became clear to me that it's the fantasy of a "normal relationship" that she wants, not me personally. Her expressed love was not for me but that idea of a relationship that she then realised she herself couldn't sustain so had to jump through hoops to make it my fault.
You use a lot of "always" and "never" ("she'll never let go of the bad object" etc.). Which doesn't leave a lot of space for hope. On the other hand, you or your colleagues have posted videos here in which you say that the latest statistics show that there sometimes is an encouraging improvement in BPD persons life - which comes as they age. What is it then, in your opinion - are those only surface adjustments, temperament receding with age etc. OR can therapy help remodel any of the deep structures/principles of a BPD person's mind that you mention here?
I want to ask would it be a good idea to send this video to my borderline girlfriend (of nine years) in the hope of her becoming enlightened about her behaviour, I'm going through the discard phase at this time and she has started being promiscuous and not communicating, ? Thanks
I love how you describe the bad object that lives inside me! Poison on 2 legs brilliant. I can almost use your voice in my head when I feel like beating myself up. I'm curious about your experiences with histronic males? I'm self diagnosing at 41 because of a fairly serious psychosis. Your content has been my most important source for what is going on in my mind. But nothing is being said about sex crazy histronic males presenting as schizotypal. Please help
I had to end a 20 years old friendship...I just could not carry it anymore...It took me many years to realize what is going on ...I did not set any bounderies and we became a perfect destructive match. ..a lot of harm happened...I even have started hating her...and I have been afraid of her....
Exactly my story, but much shorter 2.5 years ultra destructive love. Once our baby girl was born, I felt safe to run away without her dying on the spot. It's been 3 months after the break up and I miss her dearly, as she was able to strip me of all my defenses and showed me who I really am, which is slightly Narcissistic. I'm having therapy and Sam is now my guiding star. It's is tremendously difficult for me.
Exposing myself to countless hours of your material has been the most rewarding journey i have taken. Turns out picking up pieces of yourself to try to piece them back together while they’re still falling apart is actually BPD! Haha just kidding.. but i could never look at someone now and not notice these ever so subtle, tiny red flags that wave to me blatantly. I wish i could feel and see things differently. i wish emotions didn’t have their way with me. I wish i wasn’t like this. I wish even now i didnt feel the need to overshare these thoughts. i wish i could help this thing inside me. this void you speak of.
Questioning if I'm borderline now. Hearing those four sentences gave me such a peaceful feeling. I'd be putty in someone's hands for that kind of love.
No. Those are just reassurance sentences that should be used in any healthy relationship. Not transformed in "sentences for borderlines". Remember that Sam is a psychopath narcissist, empathy is not natural to him, so those sentences are foreigner. Even teachers use similar sentences (doesn't matter if they are teaching children or adults). - Im here for you in case you have any doubt. I know the subject is confusing but I'm here to help. - I give you freedom to be playful and organize your schedule but I have to keep boundaries regarding misbehavior /lack of commitment to assigned tasks. Normal.
Thanks for sharing your in-depth knowledge it is so helpful. I like the addition of techniques/ phrases to help diffuse the reactions when a person or yourself is in a full blown reaction/act out
Great video Sam! I would love a breakdown of your thoughts on borderline mothers and what the child does and represents to the borderline? I feel like my ex has put all her attachment issues and pushed everyone away after having a child.
Thank you for those videos. It's true that the disorder is going away after 50 years old at men's?My husband now is 46 years old and two years ago a doctor told to us that he has not depression but bordelain disorder.2 years now my life its not a life....He demonstrate the disorder 2 years ago...before he had only some strange behaviors. Thank you!
But what is the bad object? Did I miss it and I’ve watched your videos again and again. Is it actually me? My thoughts? My perception? It’s got to be me.
Yes. Comorbidity of BPD and F1 psychopathy is becoming rather common. And all borderlines also have a secondary psychopath self-state (watch the relevant videos here).
Just hearing the start, without violence or betrayal, isn't she just neurotic? A bit paranoid? A bit wild? I want to know what's the difference between my reactions wich are mostly internal and make me feel so sad and try to do anything for him (tried) to reconcile him. If love is my reason to live and makes be feel happy and safe, im sick 😮?
My partner lived with a borderline. Also a narcissist. It was a living hell. My stepdaughter is still living through it however. Why would anyone want to live with someone like this? Too much like hard work.
For me it was blind romance and lust to begin with, then my lack of self-worth (sense of) made me go back and surrender to the guilt trips and tears, and a lot of reflecting me without me realising; in other words, I separated her outbursts from when she was relaxed, but the person underneath (relaxed) was her subconscious mimicking of me, so I fell in love with myself without realising, even though the concept of self-love made me cringe at the time. I mistaken self-respect for arrogance - I was belittled, bullied, humiliated and beaten up a lot in my teen years. The other part is a naive love of the idea of being the knight in shining armor when no-one else was, and romanticising loyalty. I realised eventually loving someone means wanting the best for them, and it's irrelevant to a healthy relationship and boundaries. It's probably more complicated than that though! Glad I'm years away from all that now...
This is a truly insane cycle. I lived in this cycle for almost 3 years. This cycle didn't start until I left my ex. As soon as I left my ex all of this started and went on for 3 years. The first 3 years of our relationship were pretty decent. I could see red flags now that I look back but they were never as on point with this video. This stuff happened more and more with faster repetition as time went on. Of course, Adderall and drinking just threw fuel on the fire. What I don't get, it's how you say that borderline disappears around age 45. I don't see how this behavior can just all a sudden stop. I just don't see it. I've seen you a couple times in your videos talk about this.
I see myself in these scares me I am single n avoidant this could be my core. How do I heal this? What do I tell a therapist is their specific treatment that can help me? I’m tired of being alone yet I’m also comforted by my aloneness single since 2015 😅
I have bpd and dialectical behavioral therapy saved my life and helped me get off drugs. Might be a good start to research that. It was developed to help borderliners.
Well about BPD (borderline) inner bad object. At fist i didn't belive you dear prof. Vaknin, but is true. I dated BPD girl for 4 years and at fist she was very warm and soft (fisrt 2 years), and then tides has started to turn. She started to became bigger bi#!h, day by day. In last few months she turned into very very abusive monster. And as i am thinking about it i can see it. As soon as i stared to say to her, that she is able to take care of her self and tried to help her into becaming respoanibe adult (cause i was working on my self a lot), things started to turn, she started to get very evil. Years later i meet one coworker, she is also BPD (more extreme one that my ex). We went out few times, and i later to my suprise i reised that those were dates for her and as soon as i did not agree with her, i became her enemy. She same as my ex started to attack me verbaly. And now she is ignoring me big time and even if i say something to her i get eye rolling. 😂😂 And ill add that, BPDs are really children inside. You canot reasion with them in any way shape or form. But thx to prof Vaknins videos, i can now recognise patern and understand it. So thank you very much. (I hope i give you enought NPD supply)
My mum has BPD. I did not know that. I have been trying to help her for whole my life. But she totally used me and i realise that i do not really know who this women is/ I thought this women was a victim and saint, but she lied almost all about her life and people behavior towards her. it was a shock to me seeing her lying and manipulating and exploiting me and another family members intentionally. And as i started to build a healthy boudaries she became a sadistic cruel stranger. i am still in shock, i feel anger, desperation and it would be easy to solve no contact if i was not her last relative who can take careof her. so i feel trapped. i want to run((( in my culture there is like cult of parents and children responsible for them and guilt tripped by community if wanting to set boundaries or stop comunication with them even if the parent and families are toxic((becouse almost all families are toxic. it is common.
I have a somewhat similar experience regarding toxic manipulative destructive mother and the guilt tripping and shaming of the extended family and community. I was also the last one left who supposedly should take care of my psycho mother. But after losing 35 years of my life I gave up on all that. Moved to another city and cut contact with everybody from that circle, even long time friends of mine who shamed me for that. I came to terms that I can’t change her reality, and if I stay around I will be just another victim, another life lost. I told myself that now is up to Mother Nature to take care of my mother. And yes I accepted that like in nature many living beings don’t make it, withering death is all around. I accepted the brutal reality. And even if my crazy violent mother ends up like one of those homeless elders rolling around in psychosis all day, so be it. I have to save what is left of my little life and I don’t have magical powers to solve unsolvable destructive mental illness
Prof. Sam Vaknin, would these sentences work with a wife that entirely devalued me? She split me pitch black :/ She discarded me 3 months ago. We no longer live in the same apartment. How can I get her out of the "I hate you" phase? Would these sentences work?
@@neodistinct Run for the hills if you have a BPD woman. What you've probably already read/heard about it is no joke. If you think it is already bad, it will get worse. Much worse. There is no way to make them come to their senses. It's a different type of reality for them. If you are the bad guy now, it'll get worse and you will be painted as the villain, and later as the devil.
I said this to a borderline that I love that I triggered a serious trauma for her out of my own trauma she is pretty much ignoring and avoiding me, I said this: I'm going to be scarce for a bit, I want you to know I'm not abandoning you. Just giving you your space. You're family for life, I meant that.
Hello! Professor Vaknin, There is so much to learn in these fields & Spheres of mental disorders. I would appreciate too know, if you please reply. Can the borderline be narcissistic on top of perhaps other undiagnosed disorders? I understand that this is broad. But, if the person doesn’t take medication? Can they be a danger to society?
@Prof. Sam Vaknin Thank you for your reply. I was wanting professional confirmation. I've learnt more as I journeyed my research. What I find difficult to understand. I comprehend it's a sickness of the mind. This chop & change in behaviour comes across almost as Borderline Schizophrenic. What do you say of this? Multiple disorders are combined into one person. This makes it very challenging for the untrained person dealing with this. Is there any hope of change for this person with disorders if they take the correct medication? When the person you're dealing with doesn't listen. And, refuses to believe you're telling the truth. I have pondered whether the NPD with Borderline is crossing into insanity.
I was horrified to see my power to mess with my husband's mind. I could destroy every positive thought he may have about a friend of his, a job, a n y t h i n g. I left him, for his and my good. After one year, he's still sending messages, and I wonder how he can miss someone like me. It's a pity because I had chosen him because he was very structured, with no emotions, very "basic" and he didn't attend school after 9 years of age, he was very physical and not cerebral. I thought this could work. But no, I was able to have an influence also on him. I hope he will recover.
@Mr X it's just the name of my neighbour's goat, nothing interesting in my nickname. Don't worry, I don't believe in God nor in the bad, evil counterpart.
@@chasethedane9784 luckily you don't pay my bills, you can think I'm a horrible person as much as you want, and maybe you're right. I'm surprised by the lack of empathy, I'm just sharing an episode in my life and I'm not expecting clapping hands. I'm very things but almost certainly I'm not narcissistic so, sorry, but your attitude doesn't hurt me. I observe it with curiosity.
Doctor Vaknin I will do anything to get through to my borderline wife!!! Absolutely anything…I love her so very much it’s tearing me apart literally!! I will send her a message and hope she hears my words… I’d There is ANYTHING ELSE you can add to the message I’m open to it! I live to love this woman!! She’s no contact now for a year and it’s killing me!!??!
@@YouAreBeautifulINSIDE I have BPD and we do exactly like Dr. Vaknin said. It depends on Well if you can be very brutally honest What did you do or what does she believe you did that made her leave? Because We have to make ourselves Hate you to leave because it’s too painful too stay.
@@NkNk-vg8fc you mean what was the trigger? The motive? I believe that after one of her main childhood abusers died(her father) that I somehow took his place as the target for retribution for his abuse?! Also, I intuitively was getting signs that she was having major issues with compulsive sexual behaviors carried out behind my back that were huge betrayals towards me and our marriage and it was fueling her pushing me away, but I’m willing to forgive her if she would just trust that I WILL NOT abandon her, it’s like her father somehow abandoned her in death and it triggered something in her?! She started to seek out self trashing scenarios as a form of self punishment and I could sense it all…I must say the connection is very intense she cannot hide things from me anymore I just know when she’s betrayed me as we almost share the same soul it feels like at times… I know that sounds wishy washy but it’s true I can sense her exploiting herself and it hurts us both simultaneously… How can I make her feel safe coming towards me? I don’t even need to have her admit her sexual behaviors I just want her to heal from her early childhood trauma and be allowed to experience real love from another.
Is it fair to say the BPD abuses the loving partner because a) they don't feel they deserve love and b) they want to prove themselves unworthy of his love. And if that is the case, the partner should stand like the rock you mentioned, with that consistent message of love and presence.
Also some of us have been raped, beaten, etc so our wariness is warranted. If you’d been abused your whole life you might think everyone is out to get you too. And most men are npd anyways. Bleh it’s their nature
Prevalence of NPD seems to be around 5% of the population. Most men are not NPD. Be alert for things that may be filtering the kinds of people you come into contact with and how long certain people stick around you. Abuse often creates lasting situations that have this sort of filtering, making it hard to find and sustain connections to the right people. Lasting emotional damage can also make you stand out to other abusers, and may interfere with relationships with healthy people, which can skew your opportunities even if you've moved away from everything to do with your past circumstances. I hope you have better experiences in the future.
You sound bitter for dating above your "looks max" what the kids are calling it these days, yes men will use less attractive women for intimacy, the same way women are attracted to men clearly out of their league, men are far more likely to just use you for this, confusing your perception of BPD
I want to learn to curb these behaviors. I do not date or go out much anymore because I do not want to be hurt or hurt people. I cannot speak for all borderlines, but some of us are genuinely afraid we can’t be loved, so we self sabotage before we get hurt
Same. ❤️🩹😢
There are no guarantees in life not to get hurt, it's a part of relationships and life, it's better to learn to deal with emotions maturely and respect boundaries. With borderlines it's the imaginary false narrative and the love / hate intensity that becomes very difficult to cope with, regulating emotions for 2 people is very difficult in a love relationship. Simular to narcissists, one is afraid to shatter their false narrative or imagined abandonment (walking on eggshells). When regulated and not acting on every percieved abandonment like a psychopath, borderlines i find can be very kind and loving partners.
@@darthvader78441 i can imagine for many it's very difficult. They seem to calm down a bit with age but some patterns remain i found also.
Go to church unironicly, maybe try Lourdes even
100%
6:19 - what to say, word for word
8:45 - psychopathic acting out
11:34 - “attachment impaired”
12:04 - objectification of others
12:59 - identity disturbance
13:40 - narcissism vs. borderline
14:55 - low tolerance for loneliness
18:17 - compulsive pleasing
20:02 - depression and anxiety
20:55 - fear of abandonment
Woah the child-teddy analogy gave me shivers. This is how it felt in hindsight.
8:45 My BPD girlfriend told me she loves me and how she is proud of our relationship, the day before going on vacation without me. She really did not want to go. I almost picked her up, as she had panic attack being there for one day. Then gradually, I presume, she entered that psychopathic state, and her defenses collapsed as she needed to adapt to new surroundings. As the time progressed, she started to avoid me, and finally after coming back, she broke up with me. Out of sight - out of mind is a real thing, and it is devastated for partners.
NO. It wasn’t a psychopathic thing at all Sorry. 😢
That's ok, I survived 😅
They're cheating scum bro, that's it. You're better off without a witch my friend. Focus on your dharma and how you're gonna get to heaven. Forget and leave the rest. Peace
When stressed, I have a tendency to lean towards Avoidant / Borderline coping mechanisms. I can honestly say that first phrase, "I am always here for you," gave me an immediate gut response. If my partner said that to me during conflicts it would go a long way to defusing the situation. Thank you for sharing these tips.
There are two aspects to doing what Prof Vaknin mentions here from what I have experienced:
1. You'll have to do this for the borderline, aka assuage her emotional distress with unwavering support but, if you ever need emotional support, you're almost surely not going to get it from her.
2. I personally did try literally every single line of those 4 - and I didn't just say these, I walked the walk, accepted her decisions to the detriment of my own life and yet it didn't matter in the end. I was left with damaged family ties while she left me and proceeded with some other person.
Yup! on #1 , Don't ever dare get sick and not be able to be her emotional tampon and personal sex toy 24-7 , She will go completely cold and toss you away like trash in a heartbeat after being the love of her life and soulmate lol .
@@rosariocannistraro3561 why does so many people reply in such sweeping generalized statements. Everyone is different. And I'm saying that even tho I experienced the same as you
@@chrisredfield3688 when you check the subreddits and forums, this pattern seems quite prevalent
I hear ya! Being attached to one is pure hell. To borrow a phrase from Deadpool : Life (with a borderline) is like a series of never ending train wrecks with brief commercial breaks of happiness (or bliss with a borderline. if normal is 10 it’s 15 with a borderline)
It’s exhausting and you have to carry them and yourself at all times. I can’t do it. I need a partner to lean on occasionally. They just are not capable of holding any space for a partner. They are all consuming
Yeah, forget about 50/50 cooperation it’s really more like 99/1. During that microscopic chance you catch her in that 45 second window of stability. Stay off The Crazy Train. 20 years wasted here. I was told for years it only gets worse stop wasting your time, move on and find someone closer to your idea of normal and not in Chaos.
I definitely don’t understand the engulfment, but it’s there, I feel it and was so surprised to know it had a name. It just feels like it shouldn’t be there, but it is so powerful.
This is the cleareat description of the avoidant borderline i have ever seen. Thank you for explaining how the victim is trapped into such a twisted state wuth clarity and some empathy.
This post made me so hopeless. I am married to a borderline who refuses to get treatment. Since after honeymoon he asks for a divorce. We are coming up to a year now. I tried to reaffirm that I will never leave, but it doesn't work. I also said that I agree with divorce but it doesn't work. I love him more than I loved anyone. Marriage is a rollercoaster and it is killing me because I am not certain of anything with him.
His behavior is so destructive that I think one day he will cheat just to hurt me. I am so lost. My life is upside down. I don't want to leave him but I think I should gather all my strength and help to divorce this man... otherwise I will end up in a
mental institution.
He understands a lot about psychology and uses my flaws to destroy me emotionally.
I need help 😢
hold him accountable. the only real way out is to mortify them, tell them clearly what your expectations are and set boundaries if they dont follow them. You have to be willing to use their own behaviors against them somewhat or just walk away
A partner who uses your flaws to destroy you emotionally. This sounds really mean and maybe even abusive. It does sound like you need to call him out on this behavior and draw a firm boundary. “It is not ok for you to say xyz to me. It hurts me, and I feel like you are doing it intentionally. Are you doing this on purpose to hurt me? I will not tolerate you saying this to me anymore.” Then continue to encourage him to seek counseling. At this point, to stay sane and have an objective viewpoint, you would probably be well served to also see a therapist. Best wishes to you.
After years of trying, this movie sums it up pretty good: WarGames (1983) - “A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.” 🤓
welcome to group therapy in the comments section :) thanks Sam, it's always inspiring to hear your work and ideas.
So we must tell them we love them, and we're never going to leave them, but by saying so we're probably making them leave us. I know I'm probably not understanding every little nuance on the topic, but it seems like there's no "winning" move (in terms of making both people on the relationship happy).
pretty sure you are understanding it perfectly
@@jlmacy1 is it really that hopeless?
@@DenerWerb it's just not a real relationship, sadly.
It's always all about them with borderlines. We are supposed to understand them and It's our fault that we don't understand them and learn to manage their behaviour and soothe them. They are like victim narcissists.
@@JohnSmith-lk8cy You sound like you've been thru a tough relationship and are generalizing.
Very insightful. If you want to live like Sisyphus, marry a borderline.
One of your best videos thus far as for me personally bc it really hit home to how I am & wish my loved ones understood me & how to help vs make my issues worse sometimes. I love them but still don’t know how to love myself & feel worthy of love 24/7. I sometimes feel confident but I quickly fade to feeling empty, alone, misunderstood, & disliked.
I am so happy I have stumbled upon your page. Your videos have helped me understand who I am and why I am the way I am. Also helping my partner understand me which is so important to me. I’ve always felt misunderstood and now I’m starting to feel understood. I’m not as impulsive as I used to be, and looking forward to living a healthy life in the future. Thank you for knowledge and time.
My late father had BPD, he would be 57 today. He died seven years ago, drove himself to suicide by substance abuse.
As a diagnosed NPD in therapy for years, I'm still struggling to understand them. Needless to say that I'm dating, on and off, of course, a woman diagnosed with BPD. We are such a whirlwind of destruction but no matter what happens I cannot let go of her. Such a soul-wrenching experience. I have a feeling that she will never believe me, no matter what I do or say. And I'm probably doing it all wrong anyway.
Except when painting. The only way to express myself is through oils and I think my works resonate with her.
Hey I think I’m with a narc can I get some advice? I’m bpd
@@missbcritiques9209I’m with a narc and I would love for him to truly love me but he doesn’t, doesn’t understand me and I think I’m being mentally abused. I hate relationships
@@Lovelytrini82 same 🥺
@@Lovelytrini82 are you bpd?
Sounds like Gollum and The One Ring....ling Brother's Circus. Thank you for elucidating the struggle of living with the Borderline (on the borderline of sanity.)
Dr Vaknin! Wow! Listening to you describe the borderline I was in delusionship with was like a reading from my personal diary. So accurate.
@22:15 In good times, she knew the voices were lying. But during splitting, they took control and no chance to confront her with her own findings.
Professor Vaknin, thank you.
Interesting and insightful, and so dense with valid-seeming ideas that I´ll have to watch it several times.
Very accurate. Really though, who needs to deal with this utter confusion in a relationship. Run away!
it's no real love. it's a trap!
They're nuts fam. Run run run.
To know what it feels like to love a person and to be loved by them. That’s it for me. Never want to engage in the dynamic where love is pain and love is an addiction. Some kind of Sado Mach dynamic with a person who can switch to such hate filled and empty of any sympathies and greedy and disgusting behaviours. I wish them no harm but it’s futile and hopeless to think it’ll ever be any different.
All I can say is wow! This is such an exact explanation, thanks Sam.
I had been blocked, but got unblocked out of the blue just yesterday, so I sent her a message saying those four sentences to her. Now I'm blocked again 🙃. Apparently I'm now weak for not being able to leave her alone, I'm pathetic, trying to resurrect a fantasy. All I said was, exactly as you recommended. Don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting you advised correctly. But this has been the impact, which I kind of expected. I believe she unblocked me because she wanted to hear from me and react dramatically. Funny thing is, there are other channels through which I can contact her so blocking is really only a symbolic gesture. But I believe the most objectionable thing I said to her was to remind her that she was loved and that no matter what she does she will always have someone here for her. That's difficult for her to accept. So now what, I leave her alone? I've said my piece and I should just let it ferment in her mind?
How did it go ? Are you still blocked ?
@@pitbullash Still blocked. Persona non grata 😞I believe it's permanent.
@@vygotsky17 So sorry to hear man but your not alone in this! i have been blocked/ghosted in 10 days now counting....i dont want to break up my no contact policy but i really want to , maybe it is best to wait and see what she`ll do.
@@pitbullash Sorry man. It's rough. From raw and recent experience, reaching out to her will push her further away. It will confirm something in her mind. Every attempt from me to reach out, reassure her, love her, was responded to with paranoid, abusive, irrational accusations. Love = abuse to a BPD. My complication is that I see her at work. Occasionally I stopped her in the corridor to say hello, there still seemed to be a look of attraction/desire from her, but the suggestion that we talk from me was met with anger. It may be the same for you, but I think she really wants the fantasy of me, but if I'm the one proposing it she perceives it as if I'm behaving in a predatory way. It's messed up, but that's the nature of the condition.
She always said that she wanted a relationship with me but it became clear to me that it's the fantasy of a "normal relationship" that she wants, not me personally. Her expressed love was not for me but that idea of a relationship that she then realised she herself couldn't sustain so had to jump through hoops to make it my fault.
You use a lot of "always" and "never" ("she'll never let go of the bad object" etc.). Which doesn't leave a lot of space for hope. On the other hand, you or your colleagues have posted videos here in which you say that the latest statistics show that there sometimes is an encouraging improvement in BPD persons life - which comes as they age. What is it then, in your opinion - are those only surface adjustments, temperament receding with age etc. OR can therapy help remodel any of the deep structures/principles of a BPD person's mind that you mention here?
This applies to untreated BPD prior to age-induced spontaneous remission.
@@samvaknin Now it makes more sense, thanks
Amazing, Professor!
Thank you for your videos.
Hopefully you will poste another one soon!
I want to ask would it be a good idea to send this video to my borderline girlfriend (of nine years) in the hope of her becoming enlightened about her behaviour, I'm going through the discard phase at this time and she has started being promiscuous and not communicating, ? Thanks
I love how you describe the bad object that lives inside me! Poison on 2 legs brilliant. I can almost use your voice in my head when I feel like beating myself up. I'm curious about your experiences with histronic males? I'm self diagnosing at 41 because of a fairly serious psychosis. Your content has been my most important source for what is going on in my mind. But nothing is being said about sex crazy histronic males presenting as schizotypal. Please help
I had to end a 20 years old friendship...I just could not carry it anymore...It took me many years to realize what is going on ...I did not set any bounderies and we became a perfect destructive match. ..a lot of harm happened...I even have started hating her...and I have been afraid of her....
Exactly my story, but much shorter 2.5 years ultra destructive love. Once our baby girl was born, I felt safe to run away without her dying on the spot. It's been 3 months after the break up and I miss her dearly, as she was able to strip me of all my defenses and showed me who I really am, which is slightly Narcissistic. I'm having therapy and Sam is now my guiding star. It's is tremendously difficult for me.
your work and ability to explain it is genius. Thank you thank you
Exposing myself to countless hours of your material has been the most rewarding journey i have taken.
Turns out picking up pieces of yourself to try to piece them back together while they’re still falling apart is actually BPD! Haha just kidding.. but i could never look at someone now and not notice these ever so subtle, tiny red flags that wave to me blatantly. I wish i could feel and see things differently. i wish emotions didn’t have their way with me. I wish i wasn’t like this. I wish even now i didnt feel the need to overshare these thoughts. i wish i could help this thing inside me. this void you speak of.
The more you try to love her the more it pushes her away. Isn't that the truth Boss? Scheiß
Questioning if I'm borderline now. Hearing those four sentences gave me such a peaceful feeling. I'd be putty in someone's hands for that kind of love.
No.
Those are just reassurance sentences that should be used in any healthy relationship. Not transformed in "sentences for borderlines".
Remember that Sam is a psychopath narcissist, empathy is not natural to him, so those sentences are foreigner.
Even teachers use similar sentences (doesn't matter if they are teaching children or adults).
- Im here for you in case you have any doubt. I know the subject is confusing but I'm here to help.
- I give you freedom to be playful and organize your schedule but I have to keep boundaries regarding misbehavior /lack of commitment to assigned tasks.
Normal.
I assume if this sentences gave you a feeling of peace and not a weird gut feeling it's a good sign you are not a borderline
Thanks for sharing your in-depth knowledge it is so helpful. I like the addition of techniques/ phrases to help diffuse the reactions when a person or yourself is in a full blown reaction/act out
Thank you, Sam.
Great video Sam! I would love a breakdown of your thoughts on borderline mothers and what the child does and represents to the borderline? I feel like my ex has put all her attachment issues and pushed everyone away after having a child.
How are they empty? and they just copycats .. i don't get it lol.. sounds scary
Love you, man! ❤
tintinnabulation - a ringing or tinkling sound.👍
Happy Thanksgiving 🦃🍁
Hope your safe and well
Blessings
Thank you for those videos. It's true that the disorder is going away after 50 years old at men's?My husband now is 46 years old and two years ago a doctor told to us that he has not depression but bordelain disorder.2 years now my life its not a life....He demonstrate the disorder 2 years ago...before he had only some strange behaviors. Thank you!
Search the BPD playlist.
thank you, Sam!
But what is the bad object? Did I miss it and I’ve watched your videos again and again. Is it actually me? My thoughts? My perception? It’s got to be me.
Watch the From Child to Narcissist playlist.
is there such thing as a psychopathic borderline?
Yes. Comorbidity of BPD and F1 psychopathy is becoming rather common. And all borderlines also have a secondary psychopath self-state (watch the relevant videos here).
Just hearing the start, without violence or betrayal, isn't she just neurotic? A bit paranoid? A bit wild?
I want to know what's the difference between my reactions wich are mostly internal and make me feel so sad and try to do anything for him (tried) to reconcile him. If love is my reason to live and makes be feel happy and safe, im sick 😮?
My partner lived with a borderline. Also a narcissist. It was a living hell. My stepdaughter is still living through it however. Why would anyone want to live with someone like this? Too much like hard work.
For me it was blind romance and lust to begin with, then my lack of self-worth (sense of) made me go back and surrender to the guilt trips and tears, and a lot of reflecting me without me realising; in other words, I separated her outbursts from when she was relaxed, but the person underneath (relaxed) was her subconscious mimicking of me, so I fell in love with myself without realising, even though the concept of self-love made me cringe at the time. I mistaken self-respect for arrogance - I was belittled, bullied, humiliated and beaten up a lot in my teen years. The other part is a naive love of the idea of being the knight in shining armor when no-one else was, and romanticising loyalty. I realised eventually loving someone means wanting the best for them, and it's irrelevant to a healthy relationship and boundaries. It's probably more complicated than that though! Glad I'm years away from all that now...
Oh and to add a line from Perks of being a Wallflower, "We accept the love we believe we deserve".
This is a truly insane cycle. I lived in this cycle for almost 3 years. This cycle didn't start until I left my ex. As soon as I left my ex all of this started and went on for 3 years. The first 3 years of our relationship were pretty decent. I could see red flags now that I look back but they were never as on point with this video. This stuff happened more and more with faster repetition as time went on. Of course, Adderall and drinking just threw fuel on the fire. What I don't get, it's how you say that borderline disappears around age 45. I don't see how this behavior can just all a sudden stop. I just don't see it. I've seen you a couple times in your videos talk about this.
Do they pull away when they catch feeling for their favourite person?
Often, they do.
@@samvaknin tks, does all bpd avoidant promiscuous?
Wowww .. i see for #1 you have to love them differently
I really feel it...
I see myself in these scares me I am single n avoidant this could be my core. How do I heal this? What do I tell a therapist is their specific treatment that can help me? I’m tired of being alone yet I’m also comforted by my aloneness single since 2015 😅
I have bpd and dialectical behavioral therapy saved my life and helped me get off drugs. Might be a good start to research that. It was developed to help borderliners.
Does it apply to men too?
Yes.
Thank you professor 🙏
Well about BPD (borderline) inner bad object.
At fist i didn't belive you dear prof. Vaknin, but is true.
I dated BPD girl for 4 years and at fist she was very warm and soft (fisrt 2 years), and then tides has started to turn.
She started to became bigger bi#!h, day by day. In last few months she turned into very very abusive monster.
And as i am thinking about it i can see it. As soon as i stared to say to her, that she is able to take care of her self and tried to help her into becaming respoanibe adult (cause i was working on my self a lot), things started to turn, she started to get very evil.
Years later i meet one coworker, she is also BPD (more extreme one that my ex).
We went out few times, and i later to my suprise i reised that those were dates for her and as soon as i did not agree with her, i became her enemy. She same as my ex started to attack me verbaly. And now she is ignoring me big time and even if i say something to her i get eye rolling. 😂😂
And ill add that, BPDs are really children inside. You canot reasion with them in any way shape or form.
But thx to prof Vaknins videos, i can now recognise patern and understand it.
So thank you very much. (I hope i give you enought NPD supply)
you described my mother))
@@gestfue432 and mine 😂😂😅, this is why i was attracted to them.
My mum has BPD. I did not know that. I have been trying to help her for whole my life. But she totally used me and i realise that i do not really know who this women is/ I thought this women was a victim and saint, but she lied almost all about her life and people behavior towards her. it was a shock to me seeing her lying and manipulating and exploiting me and another family members intentionally. And as i started to build a healthy boudaries she became a sadistic cruel stranger. i am still in shock, i feel anger, desperation and it would be easy to solve no contact if i was not her last relative who can take careof her. so i feel trapped. i want to run((( in my culture there is like cult of parents and children responsible for them and guilt tripped by community if wanting to set boundaries or stop comunication with them even if the parent and families are toxic((becouse almost all families are toxic. it is common.
I have a somewhat similar experience regarding toxic manipulative destructive mother and the guilt tripping and shaming of the extended family and community. I was also the last one left who supposedly should take care of my psycho mother. But after losing 35 years of my life I gave up on all that. Moved to another city and cut contact with everybody from that circle, even long time friends of mine who shamed me for that. I came to terms that I can’t change her reality, and if I stay around I will be just another victim, another life lost. I told myself that now is up to Mother Nature to take care of my mother. And yes I accepted that like in nature many living beings don’t make it, withering death is all around. I accepted the brutal reality. And even if my crazy violent mother ends up like one of those homeless elders rolling around in psychosis all day, so be it. I have to save what is left of my little life and I don’t have magical powers to solve unsolvable destructive mental illness
Bpd or npd
Prof. Sam Vaknin, would these sentences work with a wife that entirely devalued me? She split me pitch black :/ She discarded me 3 months ago. We no longer live in the same apartment. How can I get her out of the "I hate you" phase? Would these sentences work?
@@neodistinct Run for the hills if you have a BPD woman. What you've probably already read/heard about it is no joke. If you think it is already bad, it will get worse. Much worse. There is no way to make them come to their senses. It's a different type of reality for them. If you are the bad guy now, it'll get worse and you will be painted as the villain, and later as the devil.
@@VideosVonDennis Yes.
Thx!
Thank you for this video! What about therapy - can it help create a borderline person a good family?
No! Next question.....
I said this to a borderline that I love that I triggered a serious trauma for her out of my own trauma she is pretty much ignoring and avoiding me, I said this: I'm going to be scarce for a bit, I want you to know I'm not abandoning you. Just giving you your space. You're family for life, I meant that.
Hello! Professor Vaknin, There is so much to learn in these fields & Spheres of mental disorders. I would appreciate too know, if you please reply. Can the borderline be narcissistic on top of perhaps other undiagnosed disorders? I understand that this is broad. But, if the person doesn’t take medication? Can they be a danger to society?
NPD and BPD comorbidity is common.
@Prof. Sam Vaknin Thank you for your reply. I was wanting professional confirmation. I've learnt more as I journeyed my research. What I find difficult to understand. I comprehend it's a sickness of the mind. This chop & change in behaviour comes across almost as Borderline Schizophrenic. What do you say of this? Multiple disorders are combined into one person. This makes it very challenging for the untrained person dealing with this. Is there any hope of change for this person with disorders if they take the correct medication? When the person you're dealing with doesn't listen. And, refuses to believe you're telling the truth. I have pondered whether the NPD with Borderline is crossing into insanity.
Also BPD and ADHD are also very similar. Stay away
I was horrified to see my power to mess with my husband's mind. I could destroy every positive thought he may have about a friend of his, a job, a n y t h i n g. I left him, for his and my good. After one year, he's still sending messages, and I wonder how he can miss someone like me. It's a pity because I had chosen him because he was very structured, with no emotions, very "basic" and he didn't attend school after 9 years of age, he was very physical and not cerebral. I thought this could work. But no, I was able to have an influence also on him. I hope he will recover.
lol slag
Bathe in Wisdom🍭
Poor you
@Mr X it's just the name of my neighbour's goat, nothing interesting in my nickname. Don't worry, I don't believe in God nor in the bad, evil counterpart.
@@chasethedane9784 luckily you don't pay my bills, you can think I'm a horrible person as much as you want, and maybe you're right. I'm surprised by the lack of empathy, I'm just sharing an episode in my life and I'm not expecting clapping hands. I'm very things but almost certainly I'm not narcissistic so, sorry, but your attitude doesn't hurt me. I observe it with curiosity.
Shit, it's so true it hurts
4 things?? Only 1 thing.....'bye!'
How about: Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Im an FP of a Borderline and if she is chasing snowflakes, Ill be every snowflake for her to catch, because I love and care for her so much.
Can these statements have any constructive effect if one has already been devalued or discarded?
Yes. But do you want that.
so much work, so much pain, i'm sorry but we need therapy in school or something. This is dangerous behavior...
Such sights to show you🎭
Doctor Vaknin I will do anything to get through to my borderline wife!!!
Absolutely anything…I love her so very much it’s tearing me apart literally!! I will send her a message and hope she hears my words…
I’d There is ANYTHING ELSE you can add to the message I’m open to it!
I live to love this woman!!
She’s no contact now for a year and it’s killing me!!??!
“Some people are colorblind. Borderlines are ‘life blind’ - blind to the lessons of life. They don’t learn.”
Leave your shared fantasy and start searching for and building self worth.
I love her and that’s all I can say.
I see the hurt inner child and I won’t abandon her like all the others.
She IS WORTH IT! She is!
@@YouAreBeautifulINSIDE I have BPD and we do exactly like Dr. Vaknin said. It depends on Well if you can be very brutally honest What did you do or what does she believe you did that made her leave? Because We have to make ourselves Hate you to leave because it’s too painful too stay.
@@NkNk-vg8fc you mean what was the trigger? The motive? I believe that after one of her main childhood abusers died(her father) that I somehow took his place as the target for retribution for his abuse?!
Also, I intuitively was getting signs that she was having major issues with compulsive sexual behaviors carried out behind my back that were huge betrayals towards me and our marriage and it was fueling her pushing me away, but I’m willing to forgive her if she would just trust that I WILL NOT abandon her, it’s like her father somehow abandoned her in death and it triggered something in her?! She started to seek out self trashing scenarios as a form of self punishment and I could sense it all…I must say the connection is very intense she cannot hide things from me anymore I just know when she’s betrayed me as we almost share the same soul it feels like at times…
I know that sounds wishy washy but it’s true I can sense her exploiting herself and it hurts us both simultaneously…
How can I make her feel safe coming towards me? I don’t even need to have her admit her sexual behaviors I just want her to heal from her early childhood trauma and be allowed to experience real love from another.
Is it fair to say the BPD abuses the loving partner because a) they don't feel they deserve love and b) they want to prove themselves unworthy of his love. And if that is the case, the partner should stand like the rock you mentioned, with that consistent message of love and presence.
Search the BPD playlist.
@@samvaknin Thank you Prof! I wasn't expecting a reply from you, I know the rules 🙂. I'm curious though what other viewers think. Have a great day!
Thank you
daily affirmations
holy shit
I know that girl.
Bye... Bye.. Bye... BYE!
So fucked up !🙄
Also some of us have been raped, beaten, etc so our wariness is warranted. If you’d been abused your whole life you might think everyone is out to get you too. And most men are npd anyways. Bleh it’s their nature
Prevalence of NPD seems to be around 5% of the population. Most men are not NPD. Be alert for things that may be filtering the kinds of people you come into contact with and how long certain people stick around you. Abuse often creates lasting situations that have this sort of filtering, making it hard to find and sustain connections to the right people. Lasting emotional damage can also make you stand out to other abusers, and may interfere with relationships with healthy people, which can skew your opportunities even if you've moved away from everything to do with your past circumstances. I hope you have better experiences in the future.
You sound bitter for dating above your "looks max" what the kids are calling it these days, yes men will use less attractive women for intimacy, the same way women are attracted to men clearly out of their league, men are far more likely to just use you for this, confusing your perception of BPD
Mapajkkaila
I am thankful for Professor Sam Vaknin giving to us on this Thanksgiving Day and throughout the year. It is truly a gift to hear such insight.