Borderlines: No Win Relationships, BPD Enigmas Decoded
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2024
- Borderline twin anxieties: abandonment and engulfment
Both put borderline in touch with her schizoid core (emptiness), negates her existence
Approach-avoidance repetition compulsion
Sudden change in behavior:
At the beginning of the relationship, she feels focus of attention and in control (internal locus)
Then, daily life gives rise to the twin anxieties (external locus) and she reacts with acting out (psychopathic self-state).
Dual mothering
In relationships with non-borderlines, narcissist and intimate partners are good enough maternal figures in a shared fantasy (“fake family”).
In relationships with borderlines, the narcissist offers unconditional love and parentifies himself: the borderline is a dead mother and affords him a second chance to fix/heal/rescue/save her and, by extension, himself.
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Insane how the mind creates these situations just to cope with the shit your parents or parent has done to you 😞
So true! I Love my mom and dad, but boy some damage was done. I’m grateful to have taken a longggggggg break from intimate relationships to learn to process and own emotions. Though I’d love to have a healthy reciprocal relationship, I’m not sure it’s worth the risk at this point, until I’m incredibly stable on my own….. happiness comes from within, and unselfish service to others…,
Why blame my parents for having a personality disorder? Too easy. I just have shitty character traits that I cannot tame or control. My own character is to blame for all of my failures with the only thing to do is stay away from people so I cause no harm. It's just life.
@@jimmckenzie6560blaming yourself is just as damaging ( and a waste of energy/focus) as blaming parents. Your childhood 💯 formed you. But now what? Do the work with enthusiasm and curiosity!
@@Gotprivacy-noyoudont The blame, if you want to call it that, is mine alone. The World is not responsible, I am. Thank you.
Don't forget on the parents's side, this is also an unconscious process, they don't know other way, either.
You’ll feel extremely loved at the beginning but only when it ends, is when you realise that they were never there
Yep
This
The fantasy came on the first recycle, after almost a year of being ghosted and hoovered. I just thought it was over.
Then she hoovered me back with some fantastic words. Gone in a month lol. Kept in contact over the years. Tried it again. Almost the same exact words. Lasted a bit longer.
I spent the last year and a half researching about BPD and what's going on with my part in this... wow! I wish everyone knew what this crap is.
....She's bAAaaack....😅😂
Like a ginnie they just vanish in thin air. No one close to the victim understands the pain they are going through. Codependency is one thing but even a normal healthy person will be confused for a long time as to what really happened. Even Imagining you were in love with a secondary psychopath is far from a satisfying closure to that beautiful relationship. Cruel absolutely cruel.
It's so true. I was one of the guys thinking it wouldn't happen to him. 9 year relationship, 5 years married. Found out she was in an emotional affair with my best mate. And when I found out, and about her lies..... Booooooom !!!! Defence mechanisms up, defamtion like you wouldn't believe, lies about me to family, friends, police everything. All the while she was at home with me, I was trying to save our marriage for our son's sake, and in the 4 walls of our house she was absolutely insane, dissociation, abuse of all kinds, suicide threats, when she left the house, totally different person, she was a master at manipulation, projection and defamtion and lies against me to gain a following. I lost friends of 20 plus years, she even tried to turn my own mother against me. She failed at that because my mother was up to speed with it all and she knew my ex wife was lying when she was trying to manipulate my mother into thinking I was unstable. I am extremely stable which is why I was able to keep my ex wife grounded for nearly a decade. As soon as I said I was going to leave her after I found about the emotional affair. That triggered her fear of abandonment and it was a trail of destruction from there. She was then diagnosed with bpd, adjustment disorder, and anxiety and depression. Not the 4 diagnoses you want to get together. I call her hurricane. Because she leave nothing but devestation behind her as she continues on her way. The damage these people can do to good people, without a shred of remorse while they are doing it, is both sickening and scary. DO NOT THINK YOU WILL EVER BE ABLE TO UNDERDSTAND THEM, SAVE THEM OR SET BOUNDARIES. I researched for 12 months everyday to understand, engaged a clinical psychologist and spent thousands and thousands on my own person sessions purely based around giving him information about things she does and why and how to approach her and help/understand. Spoke to her pshyciatrist, dialectic therapist, doctors, family. Marriage councilling, even I had to go on SSRIs for my own mental health and still tried to mend things. Even after all of this, she still couldn't see the things I did to save our marriage. They do not see the things YOU are doing because they have so much inner turmoil going on inside they can not see things objectively, they can not see themselves in any sort of negative light, and when they have any form of negative emotion, even for things they have done, it is never there fault. Someone else must of done something to make me feel like this, so I project onto them, gaslight them, constantly attack them, and everything else they can do. I tried being passive, assertive, neutral, understanding, a doormat, a hardliner, tough love, soft love absolutely everything. The thing I learned and the thing that noones tells the intimate partner is that it does not matter what approach you take, the boarderline will always be adjusting to you and how you respond, respond to softly and you don't care or your a weak person or they simply just walk all over you, respond firm and hold your ground, and you are controlling, abusive, a know it all, you aren't trying, you don't love me etc. Nothing you do will change them in the slightest. Infact. The more you educate yourself. The more dangerous it becomes. They do not want you to know about bpd, even the fact you know they have bpd is a trigger. From a good man that spent nearly 2 years and 20,000 dollars on therapy, councilling, medication, education for a women I loved more then anyother, and will likely never find such a passion like it again..... Run. Because before you know it, you have the police on your door, issuing a dvo and kicking you out of your own home, then you spend another 10 thousand to fight the dvo and win, then you spend another 40 thousand to get court orders to sell the house, and then you spend another 50 thousand on trails surrounding your child and his custody and proving that everything she has done, said to everyone for years about you is a lie. But ohhhh it's a good feeling when you provide the evidence you have been collectinf for over a year, and issue it in the trail for you defence. If you find yourself at court with a boarderline and have evidence to prove anything they say as a lie, you have already won. One lies unravels, and then the next and then the next and then the next. And all of a sudden. The web of lies she has built herself to sheild her from the outside world and her horrible behaviour are gone and she is like an exposed nerve to a snow storm. And everyone sees the real person. The boarderline. The liar, the abuser, the manipulater. And that is what a borderline fears more then anything else including abondoment. Is when people see though her, and finally see what she is. And who she is. And when that happens. The sun will shine on you after years of darkness. That is when you know you have won. When they know you where the one, you were the strongest, most supportive, and the Pilar of their existence. And that they will never have anyone else like you for as long as they live. That is what being married, having children and going through a divorce and child custody battle is like with a compulsive borderline.
As well as the top ten patterns, this is what I experienced in my 4.5 years with my ex:
The person you fell in love with doesn't exist.
Invalidates your feelings, doesn't listen to your thoughts or feelings, will make fun of your feelings.
Her feelings are more important than anyone else's.
Conversations that end up down rabbit holes.
Tells you to leave her alone when she's feeling overwhelmed, then gets angry when you don't give her attention when she is overwhelmed, Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I hate you, don't leave me!
Projecting her lies and insecurities onto you and blames you for having feelings that you don't have.
False accusations and extreme storytelling. Dystopian narrative.
Lack of Object Constancy.
Spiteful and nasty words.
If you tell her she hurt your feelings or that you're lonely or need some attention, then it's 'your' problem, not hers.
Stonewalling / shutting down.
Fine one minute, then, out of nowhere, a childish teenage tantrum that will last for three days.
Contrarian/ confrontational / spiky.
Unable to resolve arguments.
Right-fighting, unable to lose an argument as it brings shame. Shame makes them feel not good enough.
Hyper sensitive. If you want to bring up an issue, it will be taken as a criticism on their personality, character, bad girlfriend, bad mother.
Everything is black or white, unable to see any nuance or grey.
She refuses to give you emotional support, comfort you, nurture you.
Demands constant validation from her friends and strangers / social media.
Creating problems out of nothing.
Extreme hypocrisy.
Unable to be honest and open. Unable to communicate their feelings.
Non communicated expectations. If those expectations aren't met, then she will eventually ghost you and create conflict.
Threats of breaking up with you.
Gaslighting.
Jeopardising and self sabotaging the relationship, and blaming you're doing it!
Tells you you're not needed, you're pointless, she can do everything herself, but then she demands emotional commitment/marriage/financial commitment.
Infidelity / cheating and then questions your infidelity(!) Sex is validation, and was abused as a child.
Will get angry during sex if you do the wrong thing and sabotage lovemaking with her extreme emotional outbreaks.
Unable to communicate her wants and needs.
Refuses to meet your wants and needs, that you communicated to her.
Makes fun of your wants and needs and questions and ridicules them.
Selfishness, individualism, hyper-independence.
Unappreciative of all the things you have done and still do.
Cannot take any accountability or apologise.
Everything is about her. Her satisfaction, her pleasure, her needs.
Every relationship break up (partners or family) was everyone else's fault. She was the victim.
She is always the victim.
Lacks any emotional permanence.
Denies the truth even if it's staring at her in her face.
Will speak badly about you behind your back to all her friends and make up false stories.
They avoid the past because that would mean self reflection.
😢sad all those things is what he has done to me in our relationship
@@joannareynolds2811 sorry to hear that. It’s going to take time to heal from all of this. I hope you’re well
This is a great list. It details the last 4 years of my relationship, I just went no contact 7 days ago. And this is the 2nd time, after we had a year relationship 20 yrs ago that took me several years to recover from. It just blows my mind that a condition like this can make people have the EXACT SAME behaviors. A list this long of the EXACT SAME actions and perceptions. I learned about BPD around January, and it's the biggest relief I've ever experienced. Just to be able to put a name on it, know that other people have experienced it too, and know that it's not your fault puts the entire world back in working order, and lifts the weight that's been smothering you.
@@sonofthecannon Sorry to hear you’ve gone through the same thing. It’s heartbreaking, as you love and care for them so much, but there is nothing you can do. I went through the whole relationship not knowing what i was dealing with, i thought it was two people talking a different language. It was only when i went to see a therapist during yet another break up, did she tell me i was with a narcissist. I didn’t want to believe her. Then six months later after the final discard, suffering ptsd and with a serious trauma bond, i went to see another therapist who told me the same thing. It’s been a painful 7 months and i’m just starting to feel myself again, but man my insides are ripped to shreds!
Listening to a lot of these podcasts has helped validate my feelings, but i also highly recommend books like ‘I hate you don’t leave me’ by prof Jerold Kresiman and ‘The Chimp Paradox’ by Prof Steve Peters (also in audiobook which i found easier). I hope you find this helpful and can heal. Big hug.
P.s What blows my mind is how this ONE mental health condition has the same traits in everyone that suffers it.
Oh my! You just mentioned my ex to a T!! Only difference is my ex is a male..
They are destructive in a friendship level too. The BPD I met was verbally abusive
Thank you. This is way too ignored. BPD doesn't discriminate between words and titles. Sam just said that judgment is impaired in those with BPD.
What of the BPD that says "I've given up on relationships. I don't want to play games anymore." uh, huh. So, "BPD, you're going to be alone with your thoughts? All alone, forever? And I'm stuck in here with you, why? BPD, where did you take that person I knew? Can you please put that person on the phone right now? I'd love to speak with that person again, I'd like an explanation from THAT person" "Sure BPD says, Please hold📱............................................................................................................................................................................................................📴
My Borderline daughter in law was very verbally abusive as well.
This is exactly what it’s like. Sad. God help those suffering with BPD and those in or that have been in relationship with them.
This brings more clarity to my experience with my ex, who I'm still not sure had bpd or was a covert narcissist. This hot/cold dynamic was the constant in our relationship. It was a relationship of extremes. Extreme love, affection, sex, and extreme apathy, coldness, cruelty. She would flip the switch without reason. It wasn't a mood change, it was a complete personality change. I feel sorry for her but so glad she's no longer in my life.
Sounds familiar.
Did she send you a lot of hateful texts messages when you wasn’t with her?
@@apple1234iou No there wasn't any of that. Most of her behavior stuff was when we were together alone. A lot of coldness and passive-aggressiveness
Sounds like we all did the same dance with different devils but from the same clan
I just went through a divorce, I found out later she had BPD but she failed to tell me. It was a pretty traumatizing experience not gonna lie. It ended really badly as well.
@@dxxdmxn1010 I'm sorry you had to go through that. Being married must have made things a thousand times worse. In my case we weren't married but 6 months after the discard I'm still feeling the damage. It's a very destructive relationship to be in. Best of luck in your journey forward.
I just went through this for five years. Never ever want to be in a relationship again. Rollercoaster ride through hell.
They are a nightmare. Take good care of yourself! These people are vampiric and destructive...and extremely cruel.
They are extremely cruel and vindictive once they discard you. All that “love” is non existent leaving Non’s destroyed.
It’s a dark place.
I am here now after 6 years together. The last 2 years we have been married. I feel.like my life is crashing.
@@mikewright5428 Why did you marry after 4 years??
Story from my past girl.
She liked to say: "You know I will say yes, if you propose."
2 weeks later:
"Bad news for you. It's just not enough what you are giving me. So I decided to break up!"
I just came into the room, wasn't even sitting. First dialog of the day with her. It took me 5 seconds to think about my response: "Okay, I'm gonna pack my stuff"
She was devastated,
I was devastated...
Now she's pure ice to me. I abandoned her in her view!
But I won't break for anyone.
Well playled. I wish I had had that strength.
My girl monkey branched to a guy while she was pregnant with my kid then dumped me when I called her out for it and thanked me for showing her my true colors.
@@jamesneal5690 yea, they are always the victim.
Yep. Even though she initiated the break up with me, I told her I'm packing up everything, returning everything she gave me, and ghosting. And so I did.
She went full blown rage before I finally cut her off and disappeared. I have no idea what she's thinking or saying, but I know it's not an accurate picture of what happened.
I feel your pain.
We borderlines were never allowed to grow up. We’re stuck in this tortured state of acting like what we think mature, and overwhelmed and terrified like a child would be by anything that we perceive will hurt us.
Also, we typically think of borderlines as “she”. It does a massive and agonizing disservice to us men who are always misdiagnosed with bipolar and are destroyed by antipsychotics.
Meant when people are talking about borderline personality disorder the vast majority of people who hobbits are women don't you understand this
@@imther1upedyrmom2 is this a reply to my comment? Or a deleted comment?
hey bud, he references in many vids that he uses she not to mean a woman, but for the fastest sake of differentiation. he knows very well that both genders have it, i understand ur pain, just as a good woman named karen in these times. its ok man, rise above
My ex was a male BPD and it was amazing....till it was not...they usually have other traits that have been officially diagnosed but not many GPs in the UK have the knowledge about BPD or even personality disorders in general. The damage they can do to a non is extensive, I'd even liken it to PTSD. The thing is all the red flags are there in the beginning because when you're in the love bombing phase, irregardless of the BPDs chronological age, it's like dating a 4 yr old. seems so sweet at the time....BIG RED FLAG! Run!
stop the self-victim mentality and man the f*ck up. You are an adult in control, fix yourself and have fun in life.
All I can say is don't get invloved with BPD or NPD peeps. Save yourself from massive stress and heartbreak.
Sounds like a you problem
@J-kl8dm Sounds like you're probably one or both.
Good advice. The health effects alone are good reason to stay away.
There’s something in their minds or brains that never matured, they act childishly, the tantrums, the stupid conflicts in which they engage, they hung up the phone on you, they drink way to many beers, they love you one day and the next they hate you, they are kids inside a mature person body. It sounds crazy but it’s true.
Ever caught a whiff of one of their manipulative cycles and confronted them to see what was happening just so that you could witness them lying to your face? Apart from the fact that they’re childish, they have this tendency to undermine your intelligence too. Yes, you can’t win, waste of time interacting with them!
@@thinkingallowed1st Is it something that you became self aware about or did a family member or friend point out that they could see signs and symptoms?
my bad
Watching this makes me want to go and apologize to all my ex partners..finding out I have BPD and going through life not having a clue what I was doing and why is shocking to me...and explains why I married a narcissist or two...
U shld mate. The amount of pain that was caused is inexplicable. No one deserves to be treated like that. Remember we all long to be loved and if that extreme love one gives out to be abandoned like this is cruel. If u hv a good thght like u mentioned u shld do it for some redemption and ull feel better too.
I wish my bpd would contact me, not because I want her back, but to just fess up, take some accountability and give me closure. I imagine most of your relationships ended almost the same...you should contact them to give them some clarity and closure.
@@amitsalaskar1024i apologized to my exes and it didn't go well, i was only reminding them of the pain i caused. best to leave it alone and allow them time to heal
@@rustyrivers7118you don’t need them to give you closure. Look back at how they hurt you, invalidate, disrespect, discard, lack of empathy, etc for you that’s all the closure you need. Them telling you isn’t going to change what you experience. You know what you experienced that’s all the closure you will ever need.
Personally after being pretty psychologically abused I would find words from my abuser practically worthless. When people behave in a way like that, your brain places their words into the 'discard' bin and it's hard for you to care about what they say, good or bad, after that.
The things in my heart that this lecture brings out, scares me and how I felt about this girl. To be honest it scares me about how I will feel about anyone else in the future. Or if I even will.
14 years of this madness and I’m finally out of it. I am devastated… prolly just gonna be done with relationships at this point in my life.
Dual mothering. Congratulation Mr Vaknin to your explanation. I don‘t think that many people will be able to understand unless they listen closely and repeatatly to the last 10 minutes. Once you understand this, you will be ahead of 90% of all so called psychologists. Great Video. Thank you
After being in the described "no win" situation, this helps me truly understand the f'ed up dynamics that were at play.
Dude your videos are blowing my mind
As a woman with BPD this video gave me chills! Thank you Dr Vaknin.
@@freedomfighter9976 why would you have awful anxiety about someone who wants to look out for you Your sick in the head go chapter 51 yourself
Sup?
@@funkymonk542 hahaha
Sounds like someone has his own mental problems. Wow, how rude of you.@@adventures223
this is scary.. both personality disorders are just downright scary
Professor Vaknin, I'm so grateful for everything that you're sharing. Thank you for helping me make sense of my childhood and everyone who was a part of it. I'm 54 and have the clarity and understanding I've been seeking all of my life.
This man is a genius... Story of my life with my ex bpd partner scene by scene... play by play... might as well have been a fly on the wall.
“The deeper they get the harder it is to extricate himself from the relationship” makes sense. The narcissist can’t admit she can’t be saved and she knows that if she were to ever be saved he would no longer need to obsess over saving her.
So we’ll explained. You just put into words what I’ve felt of my relationship for years. Thank you
Brilliantely explained, maestro Sam. I experienced this during 13 years. All is point on. I didnt know she was borderline. She had narcisistic behaviour. I felt from early on something was wrong but because she started to live inside me from an early stage, i developed much love and compassion for her. No need to say that the situation was complex for me but i learned from you, your intelligence and analysing, so i tried to cope with the situation as good as possible. Now we are again in the next separation part. I think of going out for good, but due to my love and compassion i have for her, it is difficult. I got out to protect myself, it is so exhausting and unhealthy to be with such a person
@herwig coryn - you are not alone, I am dealing with separation from a BPD of 9 years. It climaxed with an outrageous drama that I still feel I can understand and forgive. At the time I had the support of a close friend who pushed me to initiate the break. I was reluctant, in shock and simply went through the motions out of fear for her and my safety. I still feel it was the right thing to do, but am torn. I empathize with her still, which may be a psychosis of my own manifesting. I want to believe I am healing one day at a time. I did see her flaws, but forgave, overlooked and made excuses for her behavior. I don’t know that I idealized her, but I always saw her potential and shared it with her continually. I do question if it was me who was delusional and projecting my vision of a perfect mate on to her. She couldn’t even see this in herself. Yes, I had resolved myself to love her unconditionally to the deferment of my own mental health.
I think I'm with a woman with bpd now. How do you guys handle enforcing boundaries? It seems any boundary I try and set becomes an argument with character attacks on me and my intentions when I just want a stable boundary of respectful behavior towards each other.
My girlfriend/ex now cheated on me with her ex after talking to him for less than a week. I was taking care of financially our whole relationship and we were together for 7 years when this happened. I was devastated. I couldn't believe her response to the proof of her cheating. She didn't cry, wasn't even thinking about me when doing
These things but only seemed upset that she was caught. She lied about all the questions I had for her. It was hard but I now got to the realization that I don't want her anymore and can see her and especially myself with someone else. That was hard to get to. But it's my choice
@@papagrecobh😮
It’s ironic , borderlines greatest power ends up being their greatest weakness. What is the end game for borderlines in life in terms of a romantic relationship ? Do they just die alone ?
They kill themselves.
@Ryan Ross it’s so sad , I feel bad for my BPD ex. She’s very attractive but very destructive.
Most likely, at least is the story of Mother in law and several other BPD I have come across.
Married narcissists seem to have affairs with borderline women because they can relive their unrequited love for their mothers. You explain the initial excitement and inability to end the affair before it has run its course, i.e. when the borderline discards the narcissist. Borderline women have charisma and a short-lived optimism that makes them so attractive.
Yep! Lived through this recently as the betrayed spouse. Do I thank the BPD?
Relationship with a Narcissist is a no win situation too
I was married to/in relationships with BPD/NPD men only. Now I know better so I have better boundaries and will power to say NO to avoidant/controlling/hypocritical/manipulative/flip-flopping traits of these men, as well in friendships/working environment.
you made me cry out loud when you said he becomes the dead mother and mother the mother ... I'm 42 this is the first time I heard something exactly what I'm living
Sam you explain the dynamic in a way that no one else can. It’s incredibly sad and destructive.
Fascinating. So Borderline fears enmeshment. Partner of borderline is usually needy, which is why they put up with the borderline. Then the borderline shoos away the needy partner.
My jaw is on the floor listening to this.
This describes my mother to a T. It's a strange sensation, to finally make sense of the patterns of behavior I witnessed as a child. Brings a sort of relief to hear it explained and described.
I swear Sam, I'm convinced you've had access to my life over the past year and a half, as my BPD partner discarded me after a long marriage of devaluation and ran off with her narc "one who got away" from her teenage years. This video, along with your video on the Borderline female being a second-level psychopath is absolutely 100% spot on with my experiences.
Yup, female BPD as a secondary psychopath, factor II, dysregulated psychopath.
I simply cannot agree more!!! this is my exact experience well! 6 years married 8 and half years down the drain lol! those french canadians will get me everytime lol i hope the next ex of my wife will see this video one day too LOL what a giant lesson to be learned in life.
Same experience
@@IRawRTooNII am dealing with my girlfriend-now ex and been together for 7 years and cheating on me with an ex after talking with him less than a week. I was devastated but found some relief knowing that she has a
@@IRawRTooNImental illness and would continue this if I forgave her but choose not to deal with someone who has a mental illness. It's my choice who I want as a partner. Still living with me and told her she has
It looks like it's time to me to cut ties with my bf with BPD
I was with a girl with BPD for two years and one day she threw a temper tantrum and was raging in my house. Screaming and throwing stuff, saying it was over. I told her to leave and I didn't call her the next day. She removed all of our photos and removed me from social media within two days. I took the out. If they give you an opportunity to leave, take it. My mom has been married to someone with BPD for 47 years and she regrets her decision everyday of her life. There will be moments of happiness but you will never have peace. The insecurities, constant reassurances, double standards and hypocrisy, it's not worth the misery that you will experience.
Breaks my heart into a million pieces...
This is the 6th time my BPD partner has attempted to off herself because I wanted to leave.
Me being a people-pleaser, I’ve tried to save her from herself so many times, I’m burned out and just want her to leave me alone
Met a borderline and got entangled with her for quick minute.. 🤧 shits wild. Especially after they discard you for someone else without even telling you.. leaving you confused and hurt :/
Wow... I needed to know this 17 years ago. My life would have been so different.
I couldn't understand, why the person, who pursued me so hard turned cold seemingly overnight and blamed me (!) for coming on too strong after I "made her dreams come true". It really fucked up my mind so bad. I was so easy to laugh, but after that relationship, I barely smiled.
Daum, have to listen to this over right away, just to start sorting out that mess.
I'm a BPD and a natural antagonist of the narcissist. I never heard of it explained like the conundrum you pointed out, but that is accurate. It is a tortured limbo of contradictory needs and desires. Narcissists fulfill both and it becomes an inebriating cocktail of volatile emotions that is a difficult current for a BPD to resist getting swept up in. The only thing I have in my favor is awareness of my own tendencies and work that, but I don't know that a true narcissist has a chance because they are notoriously unable to honestly self reflect.
30:00 Such an amazing insight. "The borderline becomes the narcissist's dead mother."
Chills!!!! Wuehhh
I have seen many interesting videos about bpd and narcissism but your insight is amazingly deep and the most comprehensive ! Wow! You are a genius n God bless u Dr for this educational video, at such an advance level !
Mr. Vaknin, you are just amazing. I am so grateful for your teaching. I had never heard this situation explained so well and so clearly. I finally understand myself. THANK YOU.
It's hard to be a "perfect mother" to your grown narcissist man when you are an actual mother and your children's needs have to come first. Especially if they are acting the part of father to those children and not his natural children. The narcissist gets jealous over the relationship of mother to child. Also, there are times you can't be there for them when they need you to the most
delayed development caused by abuse/neglect might look like this...create an environment conducive to completing healthy unfolding.
your words moved me from dead
Amazed at how much this relates to me. I've watched various videos from professionals but I must say you are the most accurate
Reading this list of replies made me laugh so hard because I've been keeping a journal the last 3 years from 20 yrs. of this thinking I was in the twilight zone cause it reads almost word for word but it's really no laughing mater just glad I finally figured it out and others do too
I had the relationship described here by Prof. Vaknin. It was a Narcissist/Borderline dynamic. I could not fix my dead mother. It all fell apart….
Conclusion: Borderlines are impossible to relate to and this is confirmed by my experience of a traumatized mother. Thank you for eloquent and elaborate explanations, prof. Vaknin.
They sure are they wont take the blame for nothing its always everyone else is fault they are the worst type to be around they will make your life a living hell i been around them my whole life and have not seen one of them turn their life around i seen a 89 year old borderline never changed at all she died that way they never change no matter how old they are seen it in every case maybe about 5% change if that but i have never seen a borderline change in my life you have a better chance at winning the lottery then you do trying to get a borderline to change very very few change just get away from them there moody toxic and a waste
@@freedomfighter9976 thats true i have heard of a few cases where therapy has worked the cluster b people i ever met never wanted help or didn't think they had a problem
This shit is the worst when everyone around you has this and so that makes (me) the issue and not them
Oh Sam. I laughed at your opening much harder than I should have…I’m healing! 😂😂😂😂
I have BPD an my boyfriend is a covert narcissist. My exhusband is an actual diagnosed narcissist. My boyfriend is 1000000 times worse than my exhusband.
thank god i was diagnosed really early, i was 19/20, now almost 22 and these videos show how I am and how I can be if left untreated with meds and therapy. Thanks, Sam!
You have just explained my life perfectly.
This analysis you’ve presented is the best of yours I’ve heard. No other explanation is needed after listening to this. Appreciate your direct evisceration of the heart of it.
A borderline sounds like what my ex boyfriend is, but he seemed like a narcissist as well.
I think bpd and npd overlap similar traits.
It has been said on here that it is nonsensical to divide the cluster b spectrum disorders into entities like narcicisst, borderline, antisocial. They share traits and they oscilate between states so why do it.
@@marieluvie The pure 'classic' narc is very unlike a borderline in behaviour. The narc is much more image-conscious. The borderline has elements of narc, but they are too volatile to be mistaken for a narc. A borderline changes suddenly. They can go from seemingly happy to angry in a short time, and it doesn't take much to make them angry.
@@heal1856I agree and borderline people have more of a capacity for empathy usually
Thankyou for making this information available; so much of what I've been thru is now making sense, which is allowing me to move on easier.
Dr. Vaknin, I have to admit this video is one your best.
Experienced exactly this, but I‘m not a narcissist. Just was colonised by my narcisstic mum, and older siblings. Deeply hurt, searching for healing. This healing I found after breaking from the borderline ex. Me and my kids could heal from all the trauma. But it was exactly how Sam describe. Pure nightmare
Omg the first 6 months, 1 year, 2 years? I got 2 weeks....after 3 months of intense friendship.
Okay my borderline partner, well you know it's a completely unstable relationship, she usually does pretty well but when she drinks she is psychotic. She is literally psychotic when she drinks alcohol. And she will not quit drinking. It's a nightmare.
Been there man.
Same here we were making progress to getting back together but she developed a drinking problem and she’s another person when she drinks. It was too much
I have been struggling with loving a BPD woman for almost 3 years. I have never felt more infatuated with someone who constantly pushes me away/ignores me. The thought process of NPD is exactly how I feel and is similar to what I think when I would interact with this person. She is symbolically my “working mother”, who after the divorce/separation with my father, who I would consider a narcissist, spent long hours at work to provide for me and my twin. I admire and love my mother dearly for this. I’ve had the savior/fixer mentality . I’ve given unconditional love to this person, even though she’s constantly discards me, entered new relationships, all while never seemingly wanting to enter one with me. I have been the curtain boy, adorer, to the show. It honestly debilitated my life, I haven’t been able to move on, and I need help, my heart still burns.
how you figured this out is remarkable.
Like a ginnie they just vanish in thin air. No one close to the victim understands the pain they are going through. Codependency is one thing but even a normal healthy person will be confused for a long time as to what really happened. Even Imagining you were in love with a secondary psychopath is far from a satisfying closure to that beautiful relationship. Cruel absolutely cruel.
Yes exactly.
Devastating and confusing and sad and in shock, still.!
That engulfment anxiety is a lot like haunting. It felt like a psychic link almost. I could tell when she was hungry, thirsty, ovulating, upset, and when she needed to use the bathroom. It felt like she was part of me that i had to take care of.
I have been “ friends “ with a borderline for 30 years now . It has been exhausting !!!!!!
Oh i love it! Thank you! Youv taught me heaps! Iv been narc abused, im borderline, at this time iv just broke out an more then half way healed.
Getting bak to aesom amazing me again.
Gratitude for all your work.
Sounds like Pete Davidson (BPD) and Kim Kardashian (NPD) bond.
Especially the last 5th of the video is very important. The interplay between mother figures, provided to each other from each other of the relationship partners.
This is a great explanation one of the best i ever heard i been with cluster b women my whole life you 100% for sure will never get them to change unless they are really wanting to and even then they will bounce back and forth they are like drug addicts they relapse itsa never ending nightmare just run is my advice
I’m a borderliner, I’m struggling every day , it’s hard to live with this disorder, was in therapy have no insurance so have to therapy myself now, it’s a rollercoster, got into relationships with two narcissist partners , cuz like dr. Vankin said we love chaos and always scared to be left behind, alone lonely, just like my narcissistic mom when I was a child, all I want is a normal relationship, but the black and white thinking makes it really hard, my judgement not good, just know we don’t mean to harm anyone, it may happen, because of chaotic behavior, but it’s not intentional, it’s horrible to live like that, thank u for your video , helps me a lot to understand myself better
The narc triggers you (which is something you must work on from within) and that sets you off more. The relationship should end but it doesn’t. You can’t help but stay but he triggers you. Vicious cycle
@@SunsetCliffssurfers better work ur trauma and never step into this mess again. Trust me, lost 7 yeard to such a woman only to be cheated on and discarded and hoovered back (thank god i refused a hoover and paid with mortification for that)
victim lol
@@toxicitychurch4581yes borderlines are victims to their own mind and their past
Omg, my parents have this dinamic, I have spend years to introspection try to understand, I was devasted, thanks a lot
This was the most interesting take on bpd and npd I've ever heard. Very interesting! Thank you.
After a year between borderline and narcissist realationship borderline start to demand exessively because borderline aware the power of her being in relationship with narcissist, now narcissist also need her and borderline start destructive
behaviour and controling by
Abandon the relation befor narcissist abandon her
Borderline go alone to her schizoid mode until narcissist come after her
Here game starts again & again
Sorry for my bad english
It was my experience with cliants
I have always felt like a child or someone who doesnt know who I am or supposed to be.
You are a delight! Welcome to the upside down world of TH-cam creatorship. We are swimming in BPD and NPD drama.
I adore you Sam,endlessly fun and educating to listen to you!
What about when two borderlines get together? What's the dynamic?
To those who might be in the similar situation - relationship narcissist/borderline I recommend to read the book mentioned here Narcissistic/Borderline Couples:
A Psychodynamic Approach to Conjoint Treatment
Joan Lachkar. It has just 45 pages.
Well over 250 pages, actually.
I loved my ex partner with bpd and her child and she got a restraining order and that hurt even more than her breaking up with me , I wasn’t perfect but I loved her and was always there emotionally, 6 months down the track I developed depression anxiety and betrayal trauma. Panic attacks . I was going to marry her . Sometimes that’s life I guess be better stay stronger love life
So accurate ! I wish you would talk more about BPD thank you for sharing your knowledge ❤✨
You just opened up my head, stepped inside and lined everything up to make sense between my BPD friend and I. I cannot wait to sit with her and watch it again. Sincere thanks.
Ohhhhh my god! Ohh my god! You have described it so perfectly, even though everything I thought happened was unique to our relation. Him always trying to fix me, and me always trying to punish him for trying to ‘tame’ me and trying to turn me into a doormat…He saw potential in me and tried but I refused to play into his fantasy. I wanted him to play in mine. To be strong and not volatile as he was. Both of us failed again and again. We hated each other yet were drawn again and again in blind attraction. I finally left him when I realised how terrible I am becoming as a human. I have realised so many flaws about me through this relationship. Just wow! 😮😮😮
This is my story. 100%
Thank you for making this available. I wonder if you wrote any self-help book to assist recovering from BPD?
Oh woooow you are a delight master !!! In this video I understood my entire life with my narcissistic husband ,
ohoh 2 borderlines in your life :) Thank you again for the video, very interesting the comparison of abandonment, engulfment and losing their mind, the mindsnatching part also is very true and what i found to be the most irritating. I don't enjoy my reality constantly being undermined. They can be very nice and loving also, the insecurity becomes very disorienting.
How does this guy know all this spot on stuff? Did he go through it too?
hes a diagnosed narcissist and had quiete a few relationships with bdp woman
Oookay Borderline Shoshanim, the best
Try 3 borderlines in your life !! I am still alive only because I saved my own life !!
Tread carefully...
QUESTION for Prof. Vaknin:
You’ve said before that narcissism can’t be healed, but that BPD can resolve itself with age. Are BPD and ‘vulnerable narcissism’ the same thing? If so, would this not be inconsistent with the observation that BPD can resolve itself with age?
Thank you for any help clarifying this 🙏
No but Vulnerable Narcissism (which has many iterations) is usually a subcomponent of BPD
So in your opinion, what would happen to the relationship if one or both decide to seek therapy? The power play dynamic would be completely different. Are they doomed for failure (that’s a given) unless they stay in their respective roles?
Just been through this for the past year.... Wow this is almost exactly what it's like!
Prof! You just told my story without being in my life. She did everything you said! Acted like a psychopath at the end, discarded me, tormented me, all while she cheated and monkey branched.
.
"And hostage to them" 🥂
Mothering a mother, like a mother, up in this muther. I think I'm starting understand why it got complicated. I don't know what her exact diagnosis would be but very covert narcissist like, or so it seems, absolute defamation and ultimately putting my life at danger at her perceived end of relationship.
I wounded a fragile ego by triggering abandonment fear, denying sex because of inappropriate timing, stood up to crying which most generally turned to passive aggressiveness. And then she leaves very quickly a few days later and won't answer any texts because police have her phone and a week or so later I'm getting calls from them saying they want to speak with me.
She acted very sweetly in the bedroom before leaving as if to rub it in. This was all after a good 3 year relationship that had went through rough times but endured. It seems like such a stupid destructive end that was purposely to destroy all trust. Like a nice person calmly hanging a puppy, very scary.
All these stories are so similar.
Mine called the cops on me then stated I had no empathy for understanding that. She also couldn’t understand why I didn’t feel like being intimate anymore. Gee - wonder why? They have no.damn.clue.
Reasoning with a 5 year old in an adult body!
Jesus this eerily and perfectly described my relationship with my ex-wife and her exact patterns of behavior and depression. Had I have only seen this video before meeting her.
beautifully narrated the ugly dynamics between borderaline and narcissist. Whether the narcissist you described is actually a codependent that is my question?
i think there are codependent narcissists
This is a extremely common dynamic within relationships for black Americans
I appreciate the humour …… it adds a little lightness to all this.
Thank you for your work and sharing the knowledge.
This video just summed up my past year and a half I swear, I’ve never heard an explanation this accurate
This is a great video providing a general clinical description. In each case there are other factors. So not everything is truly present all the time. Though in 10 years, you see just about everything he describes in the video.
All this hurts and wish I heard this. Like last year.