Yep, easy as pie! You just have to get past the old thought of being on the compression stroke which gets a lot of us who have ingrained that into our heads. They set this method up on the exhaust stroke of #1.
I’m trying to publish and these shorter how-tos are an easier way to get helpful tips out there with less time producing at the computer. Good to hear from you man.
Crank and cam don't turn at the same rate, hence the difference in sprocket sizes. Both dots will still line up whether the cam is on the compression or exhaust stroke; you have to line them up and separately verify you're on the compression stroke. Cam will potentially be 180* out if you don't verify.
That's not correct. The cam (large sprocket only makes one full revolution which covers the compression and exhaust stroke. They are two different lobes onb5ge cam shaft. On a 4 stroke OHV engine the vrank shaft makes 2 rev for every obe of the cam shaft. The crank sprocket will have 2x tge alignment dot is in position but there will only be one time of those two where the cam sprocket will align touch dot to dot. On the other crank sprocket the cam will align at the top away from the crank dot. Because they are both keyway aligned there is no way to screw it up. The crank takes the piston up and down the same regardless. It's why you have to look at the rockets to know what stroke your one comp vs exhaust. If those dots align you are on the same stroke no matter what. There is no way to screw it up. Again cam shaft only makes one rev per every 2 of the crank. If the chain is not connecting the cam to the crank tge crank piston position is the same for both strokes of the cam. It does not change.
I mean if it goes on and comes off in the same direction and its only one direction would it actually matter as long as you dont touch or turn anything after you take the old ones off and put the new ones on…. Im sure you can just slip the old one off and put the new one on since it keyed and wont fit any other way
Yes, for a Remove and Replace you are very much correct. The video is more for those that have got the motor un-synced for some reason or have rebuilt the motor and they are going back together.
Yeah.. had to replace pump drive/synchronizer. Pain in the A$$. followed another video, 180 out... would idle but die. Got pissed and flipped it 180, perfect, thought to myself 'that ain't the f'in compression stroke but the $$ light agrees, cell light off, I changed because of loud tick at idle. Too much play on syncr shaft, the little phaser basket would rotate around and actually contact the cam position sensor. I thought piston slap or rod knock but w the engine at idle I placed my finger on CPS and could FEEL the ticking. I hope this helps anyone 4.0 forever.... or as long as the frame holds. My new to me 03 is from FL, fingers crossed
Great video. Would be awesome if you could make one for the 80 series land cruiser. About to replace the distributor and have to set the timing on my 97 LX450. 👍
I do cover removing and replacing the distributor in my oil pump cover leak video as I also replace the seal on the distributor shaft in that video. I don’t plan to make a separate video on just timing set up, however I do plan to do a complete timing chain replacement on my ‘96 in the near future and all this will be covered in depth. Link to my other video if you want to reference it -th-cam.com/video/4IT5T647xII/w-d-xo.html
You simply pull a valve cover and look at the #1 cyl rocker arms. The intake valve push rod will rise on the intake stroke and the exhaust pushrod will rise on the exhaust stroke. You still have to feel for the piston to be tdc but you can use that to know what stroke you are on with the piston rise. Now you just need to look at the fsm to see how to set starting distribututor alignment position. It will be tdc of one of the strokes. Then you can set refined timing from there if it's not sensor controlled like the 4.0 jeep is.
I just bought a jeep cherokee 4.0 from my buddy. I said origanly bad timing chain. He put new chain and other parts it never cranked up. Im gona use ur method. I bet it will crank up. Ill let ya no. Thanks
OK - so my 4.0 will not start after putting in new camshaft. I did the TDC on compression stroke method because it is literally what the service manual for my 2000 jeep xj says to do. What you are saying is the OPPOSITE. I'm going to try it and see if this pig will start for once. I just hope I haven;t already fried my cam lobes by trying to start it so much.
The pin method of alignment is indeed on the exhaust stroke vs compression. But you just have to lift up the cam sensor out of the gears and rotate it 180 degrees if you want to do the set up on compression. The pin just won’t go through that hole this way. Make sure the connector on the cam sensor is pointing straight back as well. The ECM can take it from there and fine adjust the timing.
Also, it should start quickly so don’t keep cranking if it doesn’t. Something else could be preventing the start up. Ensure all your other stuff is connected. Did you replace anything else besides the timing gears and chain?
@@Texasknowhow me and my mechanic have both gone over this and can't figure it out; everything seems fine. But we have this feeling that it may be 180 out of timing. I put a cotter pin in cam pos sensor hole, and while the engine was aligned at TDC on the compression stroke, I slid the cam pos sensr assembly into its place so the gears slipped into the cam, making sure the cam pos sensor connector faced straight back toward the firewall. Now you have me thinking that I just paid 675.00 to a mechanic when all I needed to do was rotate the cam sensor metal flag 180 degrees.
@@whiptips4374 - THIS is exactly why I made the video and finish the video saying, “dots on gears together which is the #1 cylinder exhaust stroke AND pin in the flag”
Yes, take the number one spark plug out, put a piece of stiff wire down in there (12” or so should work), rotate the engine clockwise (top of the crank pulley going towards the driver’s side of the car) until it is at the peak. This is #1 cylinder at TDC. If you have a compressor, use a blow gun with a rubber tip and puff a couple shots of air in the plug hole. If it blows easy out of the exhaust port that is the correct place to set the cam sensor with the drill bit trick. If it compresses and tries to push the crank, you are on the compression stroke and need to go on around one full turn of the crank to set it with that technique. Basically you need to be on the #1 cylinder Exhaust stroke to use the drill bit trick.
I’ve not personally done this on a older XJ, but I’ve timed many engines with Distributors and they are all very similar. I would still put the dots together on the timing set of gears/chain. Then I would bring the #1 cylinder up on its compression stroke. Need the valve cover off to make sure both intake and exhaust are on the base circle of the cam (not pushing down on the valves). Then set the distributor in the engine such that the rotor is pointing to the #1 spark plug tower on the cap. This may take a few attempts as the dizzy will twist some as it engages the cam gear in there. Once you have it close you can rotate the dizzy slightly either way to get it spot on. This will be usually close enough to start the engine. Then connect a timing light and set the timing soon after it starts by slightly advancing the timing or retarding it to specifications. Guessing here, but at about 700 rpm (idle) it will probably be somewhere between 6-10 degrees BTDC as seen with a strobe timing light on the crank timing pointer. Make sure if the dizzy has a vacuum advance hose it is disconnected for this setting. Also plug the hose with something so you don’t introduce a vacuum leak.
I believe the sensor on the Bellhousing is the “Crank Position Sensor”. If you still have the dizzy, you set timing by pointing the rotor to the #1 cylinder wire post with the #1 cylinder at top dead center on the compression stroke. Old regular way. Then use a timing light to set timing per manufacturer spec. I don’t recall for your motor what base timing is, but probably close to 8deg BTDC.
@@Texasknowhow it worked fine, it started right up, ran great, set a timing code, watched data on scan tool, told me to turn cam sensor to zero, tighten back the bolt, never set a code again, happy customer’
I am stumped. I have questions. I bought a 4.0 with the coil pack and synchronizer. I replaced the head, chain, ECU, water pump, crankshaft position sensor (ntk), coil pack, and camshaft position sensor . It was cranking with no start. I’ve played with the synchronizer and can get it to start but it runs really rough and will die if I attempt to put it into drive. Sometimes there is a backfire if I move the synchronizer in different positions. I’m lost on getting it running smoothly. There is spark, compression, and fuel. I’m leaning on shorted wire? Flywheel cracked? Also, just to clarify . When I changed the timing chain. Are you saying in your video that when the dots face each other I’m in exhaust stroke and the holes with a pin on the synchronizer should line up with the cuff/slip pointing to 5:00 from passenger side to be set correctly? I want to make sure I’m not 180 degrees off because the Haynes manual and other videos say to position to tdc on the compression stoke with the holes lined up on the synchronizer! Haha I’m so confused now. My Jeep will start either way but it’s rough idle with three codes popping up. P0353 , P0352, P0351. I also double checked my timing chain because I was unsure with the mini backfire. Thanks! Someone help!
These engines will run (very poorly) with that sensor (the cam position sensor where an old distributor would have been) is 180 deg out of sync. This is because the design of the ignition system is a “waste spark” system. There are only 3 coils in the coil pack. Each coil fires two plugs each time. One of the plugs is firing at the correct timing and the other plug is firing during the exhaust stroke of the “waste spark” cylinder. So if you are 180 deg off, it will run, but very poorly as the waste spark isn’t really timed correctly for normal ops. I think you are still 180 out of time. Rotate the distributor cam sensor 180 deg from where you are and point the wires on top almost straight back. If you get the timing close (wires straight back to rear of the vehicle), the ECM can fine tune the spark timing from there. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the quick response! I’ve tried putting my 1999 grand Cherokee in compression and tried exhaustion strokes tdc but still runs rough either way. Is it designed to be setup on exhaust stroke with the pins lined up on the synchronizer? Thanks for all your help!
@@jacobbutler9875 - I can’t explain it any better than the video really. That’s why I made it haha. Maybe walk through your process with another mechanic friend or relative and show them this video prior so they are ready. Only other thing is if your sensor is missing the little hole in the flag (as some have commented) then you just have to look at where I’m aligning mine and get it as close as you can. You can probably get it done that way.
So I just got a 4.0 and they guy replaced the timing chain messed it up so I gotta figure out how to fix it how can I get it to spin and get to those to dots ?
If you turn the crank (by hand with a socket on the crank bolt) and feel resistance, stop. I can’t remember if these are interference engines or not (I should know, but don’t) the pistons could be hitting the valves. There may already be damage. But start by taking all the plugs out so it’s easier to mess with. Then take the timing chain off by removing cam sprocket. They are both keyed so you can’t get it wrong going back on. Work to get the sprockets aligned such that the dots are together while they are keyed on their respective shafts. Put the chain back on. Now that you have that correct, follow the short video. By the way, he may have it correct already. The dots only align every other complete turn of the crank. On the non-aligning turns the cam dot will will be opposite side (up on top). Hope this helps.
@@Texasknowhow thank you so much man i will definitely try to the guy that had it replaced it guess he didn’t no how to put the cam back like it should when he started it the motor sounded decent but had like a small knocking sound ? Should I just replace motor or is it worth it to try to save it
@@SLINGING_MUD_SINCE1994 - unrelated to the cam timing these engines are known to develop piston slap which sounds like a rod knock to some degree. Many including myself have daily driven them with the slap for many more miles. If that is what it is…
Rough timing is set per the Video you just watched, but on these vehicles (with the cam sensor vs the old distributor) it is adjusted constantly by the PCM electronically. You just have to get the mechanical timing set like I describe here.
Dots together how? Drill bit for what? Stupid question also, which way does the 2004 4.0 inline 6 engine rotate when outside in front of vehicle LOOKING at the engine?? 😑☹️
If you watch the video a few times those questions are answered. The engine rotates clockwise if you are in front of it looking into the engine bay. Ie if you put a socket on the crank bolt, turn it to the right as if to tighten a normal treaded bolt.
@@Texasknowhow So when at TDC, the drill bit trick can be performed? And this will be the compression stroke if so chose to do this way? This can be done for each cylinder? I cannot see or will not get to the timing notches, so ill have to rely on the feel & the valves.
![เขามัทรี - เอ็กซ์ ศุภกฤต - จอนนี่มิวสิค [ Official MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AS9ufKuQIVs/mqdefault.jpg)
Great video. Working on this right now, 2004 WJ 4.0 👍🏻🇺🇸
Yep, easy as pie! You just have to get past the old thought of being on the compression stroke which gets a lot of us who have ingrained that into our heads. They set this method up on the exhaust stroke of #1.
How’d it go?
@@frankjackson9821 - if you’re asking me - it fired right up! Running great to this day. Thanks for watching!
Cleared up my confusion as to stroke position. Thanks
Wow thanks, I’ve been pulling my hair out for hours trying to figure out why it’s not on compression stroke…. Glad I’m not actually crazy
That is exactly why I posted this! Glad it helped you man!
Excellent video. Tha k you for taking the time to make this.
Ty for the video. I'm glad it's that simple
Thank you very much thank you very much you have nice Holiday this year
Great video, exactly what I was looking for. You da man
Glad to help!
Awesome info...new tricks for the trade....
Thanks
Great to see some new content
I’m trying to publish and these shorter how-tos are an easier way to get helpful tips out there with less time producing at the computer. Good to hear from you man.
Crank and cam don't turn at the same rate, hence the difference in sprocket sizes. Both dots will still line up whether the cam is on the compression or exhaust stroke; you have to line them up and separately verify you're on the compression stroke. Cam will potentially be 180* out if you don't verify.
That's not correct. The cam (large sprocket only makes one full revolution which covers the compression and exhaust stroke. They are two different lobes onb5ge cam shaft. On a 4 stroke OHV engine the vrank shaft makes 2 rev for every obe of the cam shaft. The crank sprocket will have 2x tge alignment dot is in position but there will only be one time of those two where the cam sprocket will align touch dot to dot. On the other crank sprocket the cam will align at the top away from the crank dot.
Because they are both keyway aligned there is no way to screw it up. The crank takes the piston up and down the same regardless. It's why you have to look at the rockets to know what stroke your one comp vs exhaust. If those dots align you are on the same stroke no matter what. There is no way to screw it up. Again cam shaft only makes one rev per every 2 of the crank. If the chain is not connecting the cam to the crank tge crank piston position is the same for both strokes of the cam. It does not change.
I mean if it goes on and comes off in the same direction and its only one direction would it actually matter as long as you dont touch or turn anything after you take the old ones off and put the new ones on…. Im sure you can just slip the old one off and put the new one on since it keyed and wont fit any other way
Yes, for a Remove and Replace you are very much correct. The video is more for those that have got the motor un-synced for some reason or have rebuilt the motor and they are going back together.
@@Texasknowhowok so im right neat had me worried thanks for the response even though its an old vid😊
Yeah.. had to replace pump drive/synchronizer. Pain in the A$$. followed another video, 180 out... would idle but die. Got pissed and flipped it 180, perfect, thought to myself 'that ain't the f'in compression stroke but the $$ light agrees, cell light off, I changed because of loud tick at idle. Too much play on syncr shaft, the little phaser basket would rotate around and actually contact the cam position sensor. I thought piston slap or rod knock but w the engine at idle I placed my finger on CPS and could FEEL the ticking.
I hope this helps anyone
4.0 forever.... or as long as the frame holds. My new to me 03 is from FL, fingers crossed
Great video. Would be awesome if you could make one for the 80 series land cruiser. About to replace the distributor and have to set the timing on my 97 LX450. 👍
I do cover removing and replacing the distributor in my oil pump cover leak video as I also replace the seal on the distributor shaft in that video. I don’t plan to make a separate video on just timing set up, however I do plan to do a complete timing chain replacement on my ‘96 in the near future and all this will be covered in depth. Link to my other video if you want to reference it -th-cam.com/video/4IT5T647xII/w-d-xo.html
You simply pull a valve cover and look at the #1 cyl rocker arms. The intake valve push rod will rise on the intake stroke and the exhaust pushrod will rise on the exhaust stroke. You still have to feel for the piston to be tdc but you can use that to know what stroke you are on with the piston rise. Now you just need to look at the fsm to see how to set starting distribututor alignment position. It will be tdc of one of the strokes. Then you can set refined timing from there if it's not sensor controlled like the 4.0 jeep is.
very good video sir
Glad it is helpful. Love the 4.0 Jeep engines.
inonly have a v8 96 but im hoping it works for mine.
Thk. You!
I just bought a jeep cherokee 4.0 from my buddy. I said origanly bad timing chain. He put new chain and other parts it never cranked up. Im gona use ur method. I bet it will crank up. Ill let ya no. Thanks
Yeah, let me know. Interested if that gets you going. Good luck!
OK - so my 4.0 will not start after putting in new camshaft. I did the TDC on compression stroke method because it is literally what the service manual for my 2000 jeep xj says to do. What you are saying is the OPPOSITE. I'm going to try it and see if this pig will start for once. I just hope I haven;t already fried my cam lobes by trying to start it so much.
The pin method of alignment is indeed on the exhaust stroke vs compression. But you just have to lift up the cam sensor out of the gears and rotate it 180 degrees if you want to do the set up on compression. The pin just won’t go through that hole this way. Make sure the connector on the cam sensor is pointing straight back as well. The ECM can take it from there and fine adjust the timing.
Also, it should start quickly so don’t keep cranking if it doesn’t. Something else could be preventing the start up. Ensure all your other stuff is connected. Did you replace anything else besides the timing gears and chain?
@@Texasknowhow me and my mechanic have both gone over this and can't figure it out; everything seems fine. But we have this feeling that it may be 180 out of timing. I put a cotter pin in cam pos sensor hole, and while the engine was aligned at TDC on the compression stroke, I slid the cam pos sensr assembly into its place so the gears slipped into the cam, making sure the cam pos sensor connector faced straight back toward the firewall. Now you have me thinking that I just paid 675.00 to a mechanic when all I needed to do was rotate the cam sensor metal flag 180 degrees.
@@whiptips4374 - THIS is exactly why I made the video and finish the video saying, “dots on gears together which is the #1 cylinder exhaust stroke AND pin in the flag”
You get it figured out? Hopefully it’s back running again!
Okay so I'm working on a 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee is it possible without taking the timing cover off to find the right position to set it ?
Yes, take the number one spark plug out, put a piece of stiff wire down in there (12” or so should work), rotate the engine clockwise (top of the crank pulley going towards the driver’s side of the car) until it is at the peak. This is #1 cylinder at TDC. If you have a compressor, use a blow gun with a rubber tip and puff a couple shots of air in the plug hole. If it blows easy out of the exhaust port that is the correct place to set the cam sensor with the drill bit trick. If it compresses and tries to push the crank, you are on the compression stroke and need to go on around one full turn of the crank to set it with that technique. Basically you need to be on the #1 cylinder Exhaust stroke to use the drill bit trick.
What about if it’s distributor cap and rotor on 93 XJ?
I’ve not personally done this on a older XJ, but I’ve timed many engines with Distributors and they are all very similar. I would still put the dots together on the timing set of gears/chain. Then I would bring the #1 cylinder up on its compression stroke. Need the valve cover off to make sure both intake and exhaust are on the base circle of the cam (not pushing down on the valves). Then set the distributor in the engine such that the rotor is pointing to the #1 spark plug tower on the cap. This may take a few attempts as the dizzy will twist some as it engages the cam gear in there. Once you have it close you can rotate the dizzy slightly either way to get it spot on. This will be usually close enough to start the engine. Then connect a timing light and set the timing soon after it starts by slightly advancing the timing or retarding it to specifications. Guessing here, but at about 700 rpm (idle) it will probably be somewhere between 6-10 degrees BTDC as seen with a strobe timing light on the crank timing pointer. Make sure if the dizzy has a vacuum advance hose it is disconnected for this setting. Also plug the hose with something so you don’t introduce a vacuum leak.
I got 1994 with a distributor the cam position sensor is on the bell housing how can I make sure the distributor is set right
I believe the sensor on the Bellhousing is the “Crank Position Sensor”. If you still have the dizzy, you set timing by pointing the rotor to the #1 cylinder wire post with the #1 cylinder at top dead center on the compression stroke. Old regular way. Then use a timing light to set timing per manufacturer spec. I don’t recall for your motor what base timing is, but probably close to 8deg BTDC.
@@Texasknowhow Thank You Brother
No timing mark on harmonic balancer😅
What size drill bit do you use the only 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee with a 4.0 straight? 6 to the time it
I think it was the 1/8” bit. One of the small ones in a bit box kit.
Imma try it your way. Doing a long block
Should work good for you. Chime in and let us know how the build goes!
@@Texasknowhow it worked fine, it started right up, ran great, set a timing code, watched data on scan tool, told me to turn cam sensor to zero, tighten back the bolt, never set a code again, happy customer’
@@frankjackson9821 - outstanding!!
I am stumped. I have questions. I bought a 4.0 with the coil pack and synchronizer. I replaced the head, chain, ECU, water pump, crankshaft position sensor (ntk),
coil pack, and camshaft position sensor . It was cranking with no start. I’ve played with the synchronizer and can get it to start but it runs really rough and will die if I attempt to put it into drive. Sometimes there is a backfire if I move the synchronizer in different positions. I’m lost on getting it running smoothly. There is spark, compression, and fuel. I’m leaning on shorted wire? Flywheel cracked?
Also, just to clarify . When I changed the timing chain. Are you saying in your video that when the dots face each other I’m in exhaust stroke and the holes with a pin on the synchronizer should line up with the cuff/slip pointing to 5:00 from passenger side to be set correctly? I want to make sure I’m not 180 degrees off because the Haynes manual and other videos say to position to tdc on the compression stoke with the holes lined up on the synchronizer! Haha I’m so confused now. My Jeep will start either way but it’s rough idle with three codes popping up. P0353 , P0352, P0351. I also double checked my timing chain because I was unsure with the mini backfire. Thanks! Someone help!
These engines will run (very poorly) with that sensor (the cam position sensor where an old distributor would have been) is 180 deg out of sync. This is because the design of the ignition system is a “waste spark” system. There are only 3 coils in the coil pack. Each coil fires two plugs each time. One of the plugs is firing at the correct timing and the other plug is firing during the exhaust stroke of the “waste spark” cylinder. So if you are 180 deg off, it will run, but very poorly as the waste spark isn’t really timed correctly for normal ops. I think you are still 180 out of time. Rotate the distributor cam sensor 180 deg from where you are and point the wires on top almost straight back. If you get the timing close (wires straight back to rear of the vehicle), the ECM can fine tune the spark timing from there. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the quick response! I’ve tried putting my 1999 grand Cherokee in compression and tried exhaustion strokes tdc but still runs rough either way. Is it designed to be setup on exhaust stroke with the pins lined up on the synchronizer? Thanks for all your help!
@@jacobbutler9875 - I can’t explain it any better than the video really. That’s why I made it haha. Maybe walk through your process with another mechanic friend or relative and show them this video prior so they are ready. Only other thing is if your sensor is missing the little hole in the flag (as some have commented) then you just have to look at where I’m aligning mine and get it as close as you can. You can probably get it done that way.
So I just got a 4.0 and they guy replaced the timing chain messed it up so I gotta figure out how to fix it how can I get it to spin and get to those to dots ?
If you turn the crank (by hand with a socket on the crank bolt) and feel resistance, stop. I can’t remember if these are interference engines or not (I should know, but don’t) the pistons could be hitting the valves. There may already be damage. But start by taking all the plugs out so it’s easier to mess with. Then take the timing chain off by removing cam sprocket. They are both keyed so you can’t get it wrong going back on. Work to get the sprockets aligned such that the dots are together while they are keyed on their respective shafts. Put the chain back on. Now that you have that correct, follow the short video. By the way, he may have it correct already. The dots only align every other complete turn of the crank. On the non-aligning turns the cam dot will will be opposite side (up on top). Hope this helps.
@@Texasknowhow thank you so much man i will definitely try to the guy that had it replaced it guess he didn’t no how to put the cam back like it should when he started it the motor sounded decent but had like a small knocking sound ? Should I just replace motor or is it worth it to try to save it
@@SLINGING_MUD_SINCE1994 - unrelated to the cam timing these engines are known to develop piston slap which sounds like a rod knock to some degree. Many including myself have daily driven them with the slap for many more miles. If that is what it is…
@@Texasknowhow yea bro haha that’s what it sounds like
We're is the timing set at
Rough timing is set per the Video you just watched, but on these vehicles (with the cam sensor vs the old distributor) it is adjusted constantly by the PCM electronically. You just have to get the mechanical timing set like I describe here.
Dots together how?
Drill bit for what?
Stupid question also, which way does the 2004 4.0 inline 6 engine rotate when outside in front of vehicle LOOKING at the engine?? 😑☹️
If you watch the video a few times those questions are answered. The engine rotates clockwise if you are in front of it looking into the engine bay. Ie if you put a socket on the crank bolt, turn it to the right as if to tighten a normal treaded bolt.
@@Texasknowhow So when at TDC, the drill bit trick can be performed? And this will be the compression stroke if so chose to do this way? This can be done for each cylinder?
I cannot see or will not get to the timing notches, so ill have to rely on the feel & the valves.
@@maniacalmonster2293 mine does not have a hole for the drill bit?
@@benjaminnoble7710
Neither does my new one that I bought from O'Reilly's but my old one does,
Did any of this help you if so how ?
@@dadsgonenuts I bought a different one and it came with location pin
Thanks
Well how do you get the timing chain on?