These videos are phenomenal. I love the cut and dry explanations of common misconceptions and myths explained in great detail with simplicity and clarity!
he is clever, but cant agree with anyone,, its the way he says and no other way.. his intellectual talents are wasted just playing with speakers... I only wanted a talk on physics and electro magnetism and then we are trade hate mail!!! oh well sometimes it takes a wrong doer to show u ware u gone wrong yourself.. peace...
Basically, most people only think in 2 dimensions, not considering the most important, 3rd dimention , ie, stroke.. well done video.. your very good at articulating what your talking about so everyone understands.. THANK YOU..
Great explanation👍 What annoys me is that on alot of subs they have a large surround that decrease the cone area but still don't have more xmax than one with larger cone area and a smaller surround and have the same displacement. So in those cases it would be better to decrease the surround and keep a larger cone even if the difference in dB is really not really noticable anyway.
This comment is so old but that's where youre wrong. If the dB gain is unnoticeable then it is definitely more profitable to sell the trendy looking big roll surround sub 😉 they make more sells with the one that has the surround, thatsbjust what people like to see that don't know better
@@RandoManFPV No I am 100% right. What sells and what are facts are two VERY different things...😉 I did not see anything in your comment that says I am wrong since you are only talking about what some people buy and not the actual facts of how a speaker works... So it was just a kinda pointless comment.
"In those cases it would be better to decrease the surround and keep a larger cone even if the difference in dB is really not really noticeable" ^^^^^^^^^^ Yea in those cases it would be better for YOU. The buyer who wants output and knows how subs actually work. Obviously decreasing cone area to put the big surround on that is trendy and makes more sells is better for the COMPANY. Big roll surrounds and style sells to the masses of people that don't know shit about subs and just want to get what looks cool or markets well. So like I said; that's where you are wrong. "It would be better to decrease surround and keep a larger cone" Better for you. If the output difference is unnoticeable then I too would buy the one eith the big roll surround even knowing that I'll have a tiny dB loss, if the output is an unnoticeable difference then I'd rather have the one I think looks cooler. Most people that arnt smart enough to read specs and check which one is louder/better, are also gunna go with the one that looks cooler. And as of late what 'looks cool' is the highroll surround and that's what sells, and that's why manufacturers choose big surrounds over a tiny bit more cone area
That's so AWESOME everyone i talk to about the mega Surrounds on those SUBWOOFERS they all told me I'd be better off getting this SUBWOOFER or that SUBWOOFER because there's kno way that those SUBWOOFERS can get anywhere near as loud as a SUBWOOFER with a smaller Surround and more cone area the more cone area the LOUDER the SUBWOOFER would be im so glad u make these videos so i can show them and pull their cards sorry for rambling on but thank u for taking the time to make all the videos u do i really do learn alot watching all ur videos [✌🏽💪🏽🔈✌🏽💪🏽🔉✌🏽💪🏽🔊 ]
UniCrafter Could you explain that in further detail? Why doesn’t cone depth account for cone area? A deeper cone uses more material than a shallow cone.
@@clutch7366 you've probably found the answer by now but no matter how deep the cone is your not changing the cross section of air affected in front of the cone
Ive always Wondered, evertime i rebuild a sub i have been just using megarolls cause thats whats popular lol...i have had to work harder on one sub cause with a mega roll it did not want to stay centered...The voicecoil took some messing with while glue was setting up
Thanks for making this video, I was always wondering if it was worth it to lose cone area in favor of xmax, and it looks like (as long as the other parts allow for the movement) its well worth it.
@@EMFAudio yeah I think the zv3 is like the SA series. My U series are bigger than my old sa series woofers. These videos are very informative. Thank you for posting
How did you calculate the cone displacement values? Was it simply the Conical Frustum volume? And is there a way to get this value without the subwoofer in your physical presence? Thanks, great video and totally destroys the cone area is king argument.
My dc level 4 10's with mega roll surround have about a 6 inch cone. I requested the mega roll but the sub doesn't have the ability to use all that excursion before bottoming out, so i would recommend nobody do that. DC shouldn't even have that as an option for that particular sub. Both of my 10's are ruined and have to be rebuilt now. Great video as usual👍
so, it does loose displacement with a wider surround. u have to hope the motor can drive the cone farther to get the displacement through xmax instead of cone area, to compensate for reduced cone area.
You don't lose much with a wider surround. The motor driving it further isn't the issue, the spider and coil length is what would determine it's ability to get more out of it.
@@EMFAudioI was told u can not make a subwoofer better by rebuilding it with new soft parts....In my opinion I thought what I had built sounded better ...I was told it's all in the motor? Since the motor is the same it's not changing the spec's on the sub?
@@johnoates3326Everything effects everything. Change 1 thing, the entire speaker changes. Soft parts matter on specs, greatly, ESPECIALLY the coil. The coil alone makes a huge difference in a given motor.
@@EMFAudio wow well now I know why when I did a complete rebuild on a EVL18 new coil, new spider new cone and went with a carbon dust cap all parts from lord of bass ..I swore up and down it sounded even better than the original I was right then! I was told it was the same and there was no way I improved it because I did not alter the motor ..Damn, I wish I would if had the knowledge to argue my point but I did not....wow thats good to know now......Thank u for answering this for me I appreciate it!
@@EMFAudio the only downfall I had with this experience is I spent 220 bucks in parts to lord of bass and another 30ish or so on glues expoxy ..The sub is 280 new ..That was the sad reality for me it was not worth it....Besides for the learning experience which I am greatful for...I just thought it would of been alot cheaper to rebuild than by new
Any tips or info you can give for building a sub from start to finish? I've checked around an it seems you can buy all the part's needed to build a sub, but i don't see alot explanations on what can an can't be used. Example i seen several cones that exept 3 in coils ,but then how do i know for sure that the frame motor an spider pack with work with that cone an coil?.
Bolt pattern for the frame if it matches your motor bolt pattern it should work I've never had one that didn't as long as they bolt up ..Spider will be the size u need for your basket.... voicecoil measure and find what u need that works
The size of the roll isn't what dictates what frequencies it can play. DD's are known for not playing low well, so your example would be quite false. That, and DD uses a roll similar to the Zv3/SA/Lowballer cone, and Lowballers actually do play low pretty well. Using a megaroll on a YOLO (as I have done before, and do in my own truck) will still play 30 hz well and 65 hz fairly well. That is due to the motor and coil design, high BL, low inductance.
By definition that would make it not a mega roll. It is a smaller roll, yes. The sub doesn't have the ability to move to the limits of a megaroll and doesn't need it, therefore, we did not use it.
I've read that doubling power *theoretically* adds another 3 db... I associate more power to the sub as the equivalent of more movement. More movement means more displacement. More displacement means louder...If your sub is already at xmax at "x" frequency, then does doubling power increase output at that same "x" frequency?
If it's at Xmax, it might add another 60% or something. BUT if it's at Xmech, or already far enough out of the magnetic cap, the sub will clip, as in it'll pull the surround/spider, the cone will stop moving, and the coil will likely burn up in the process.
If it's already at maximum movement, you won't gain anything. When you get to the point of nearing physical limits and adding more power does gain, it's never near theoretical. I've gotten to the point doubling power only gains 0.3-0.4 dB, but that was near the physical limits.
Is be interested in getting a carbon fiber basket.. I think that would be awesome.. like the chip fiber pressed pattern.. I think the baskets technology have been stagnant for too long. Please let me know what you think
Cone displacement is always the same. The measurement is done in the area of movement. The outside half of the surround doesn't move so it doesn't contribute to displacement.
That would be application specific. If the application was lower frequencies you'd lose with the SPL surround coming from a mega roll. There isn't a flat amount of gain or loss.
I saw you and your car at Cars and Coffe a few months ago and man I sure do recognise you and now listing to your voice I KNOW I know you ! My only problem is i am good with faces but horrible with names and exactly where from. I started working at the old Circuit City in Greenville in 1997 and then worked at Rogers Stereo in Greenville from 1999 until 2001 when I went to Tweeter by the mall ! I had the white and red Cavalier Z24 ! Were you a customer of ours at one of those shops or did you work at ones of these around the same time frame ?
I worked at Rogers in 2000-2001 in Spartanburg and worked at Tweeter in Greenville starting when the Spartanburg store was opening. I now remember you.
The bigger surrounds do add more loudness its correct. But it is NOT all about loudness ( Unless its Big boom boom sounding car competition systems ) A bigger surround ( especially higher ) WILL make more distortion due to the amount of reflections bounced around it. So this is actually why High Fidellity systems and professional studio systems do NOT use those. In such conditions you want the highest quality you can get and it doesnt matter you sacrifice a few DB in loudness. Its also the explanation why HiGh End systems typically have a much higher demand for power and a lower output in DB/Watt Spl. ( other factors do apply too such as the coils abillity to produce a smooth linear frequency curve , where in car audio that really doesnt matter because its only about producing the deepest and loudest bass boom ) Sound is much more than just BOOM BOOM Bass so in systems where you want to enjoy the highest Fidellity Sound possibly you for shure want to avoid such cones with this type of surrounds. It all comes with compromices and sacrifices. You want loud Boomy car bass sounding system OR do you want High End Fidellity sound in highest studio quality. You Can NEVER get both. I think this is worth mention in a talk about cones.
Not making a joke or saying something other than what I actually saying,but my wife likes the small sub's too,and no amount of explanation about her getting a bigger sub for more bass will change her ... She says they are cute and doesn't want a big ugly monster 12" sub🤷... I have 2 rockford p3 12"s ...and going from okay sounding bass then getting in her car with her one lil' fat surround 500watt 8" sub ... I'm like 😡😡😡,but what people want always varries and we're all different so it's cool 👍her little sub does put in some work on radio music.and everyone asks if she has a 12.. so it's 😎 cool. Take care and don't let people hate on ya' 💯%...👍✌️
@@scottl3739 I'm 40 years old. I don't listen to loud hip hop music or heavy bass. For me the space inside the car is more important. Also nowadays small subs are deep and powerful enough. Yeah if you want make your car tremble go for 12 inches and as more as possible. I just listen music on low volume but I want to have a nice low end which a 5,5 or 6,5 standard car speaker cannot deliver. My ideal setup now is to get a car with a built in sound system as Harman Kardon or Burmeister (giving this examples because I like Mercedes-Benz only. Yeah that kind of car owner poor but loving only this brand). I listened a Burmeister on a S Klasse and I think is amazing! The subs are inside the central tunel next to your feet and the sound integration is amazing. Sure you can get more Power from an after market setup but I doubt they can defeat an S Klasse or a Rolls Royce Ghost in fidelity and image. I listened also the sound system in the newest Ghost as damn good. As for Power is not too shabby they have way over 2000w RMS (better check the specs cuz I don't remember right now) all those implementations so you are good to go!
yes true,, anyone who loves theyre engines know exactly what displacement.. the cone moves in&,out plus its own ares and add that up and there's yer mumba!!!
In most designs, no. Though if it's flat, it's not a cone. The only reason to have a flat piston is for mounting depth purposes. Geometrically it's not a strong surface, to make it rigid you have to add weight, which isn't helping performance.
@@EMFAudio I know it's not a cone...but area would be smaller on flat face rather than an actual cone face of same size speaker right do to the fact of straight line compared to 2 diagonal lines or volume to no volume in same manner. Just wanted to know I should stay away from flat piston compaired to cone. And really I always thought of a 15" driver actually being a 12" driver, 12" being a 10", 10" being a 8" do to the actual moving mass of cone not the cut out size
@@vusstoppyv4612 Don't confuse cone area with surface area. The volume of displacement is based on a change, not what it takes up to begin with. Volume displacement isn't a triangulated measurement. Nobody has a flat piston because they WANT a flat piston, they have it because it's needed. If it's not needed, it won't have it. So, you aren't really making a fair comparison in subs anyway, the cone style should be the least of your concerns.
I believe Vd is Sd x xmax, you are talking Vd and Vd is a big deal!!! good on you for this video, better than that budget amp compared to a high dollar amp video you did.
There will be another amp video addressing all the things people cried about that didn't matter with that amp video you speak of. The better amp will be at a disadvantage and still give a better result I suspect.
@@EMFAudio 2 x the displacement will require 2 X the power , you don't get a free lunch in physics . 2 x the displacement has the potentialfor 6 db more SPL if you are willing to supply the required power
@@gerritgovaerts8443 You may not get a free lunch in physics, but it appears you're still hungry. It does not require double power to get double displacement. You can add a second speaker on the same power and achieve 3 dB at maximum theoretical value. Doubling power doesn't necessarily mean the sub moves twice as much either, but you may still gain 3 dB. Science says if you wan't an accurate result you don't change 2 variables, you're suggesting changing 2 variables.
I hate seeing companies that use the mega surround, but uses a spider that can’t travel the same distance. It’s like putting big shiny rims on a POS car
I see it happen all the time, and that's nothing new. I've seen it on subs going back to early 2000's. People see a big surround and think it will have more output, but the spider and coil limit throw.
The only math most look at is cone area, they don't look at actual displacement. If a surround looks bigger, they make assumptions, like losing half the cone area (actual thing I've heard).
Fuck I don't care about radiant area and sound.. all I care from my speakers is to be cute and good looking. I don't even listen to music in my car too often. Is boring and annoying.
sub bass speakers wuldnt get anyware near a studio or used as studio monitors bcoz theyre not very sensitive and considered not truthful to the master sound production.. also sub or bass was generaly used to under pin sound quality not over power it.. aswell as square waves which inevitably end up getting shoved into these big n ugly beasts that eventually end up blowing said equipment thus starting the procedure all over again by getting more equipment from you!! audiophile sound/electric engineers love to listen and love even more to question and know there's always more than one way to skin a speaker!! has anyone tried the square4 configuration like guitar stacks.. 2sieres x 2 parallel speakers wired ina square4 is still the same impedance as its 1single speaker but 4x the power,, good results cen be got... sometimes with audio equipment bankruptcy has never sounded so good!!!!
aye mate, tis alright,, I always challenge,, maybe wind up too.. I remember doing cone suface area in my math lesson wen I was 16!! for all that intelligence are u shure u culdnt of done a better vocation than playing with speakers?? the world is changing, and electric vehicles coming, and thats going to be more important than a alternating current voice coil noise maker!!! speakers is something teenage boys play with ive always seen?? sorry!! last com.....
It's a fountain of bass youth. I'm the big 40 now... And get just as giddey putting together a sound system now as I did when I started at age 8 you fuk.
These videos are phenomenal. I love the cut and dry explanations of common misconceptions and myths explained in great detail with simplicity and clarity!
This is why I'm glad I went with emf dude is pretty honest and actually tries to educate his customers
he is clever, but cant agree with anyone,, its the way he says and no other way.. his intellectual talents are wasted just playing with speakers...
I only wanted a talk on physics and electro magnetism and then we are trade hate mail!!!
oh well sometimes it takes a wrong doer to show u ware u gone wrong yourself.. peace...
Basically, most people only think in 2 dimensions, not considering the most important, 3rd dimention , ie, stroke.. well done video.. your very good at articulating what your talking about so everyone understands.. THANK YOU..
Great explanation👍
What annoys me is that on alot of subs they have a large surround that decrease the cone area but still don't have more xmax than one with larger cone area and a smaller surround and have the same displacement. So in those cases it would be better to decrease the surround and keep a larger cone even if the difference in dB is really not really noticable anyway.
True
This comment is so old but that's where youre wrong. If the dB gain is unnoticeable then it is definitely more profitable to sell the trendy looking big roll surround sub 😉 they make more sells with the one that has the surround, thatsbjust what people like to see that don't know better
@@RandoManFPV No I am 100% right.
What sells and what are facts are two VERY different things...😉 I did not see anything in your comment that says I am wrong since you are only talking about what some people buy and not the actual facts of how a speaker works... So it was just a kinda pointless comment.
"In those cases it would be better to decrease the surround and keep a larger cone even if the difference in dB is really not really noticeable"
^^^^^^^^^^
Yea in those cases it would be better for YOU. The buyer who wants output and knows how subs actually work.
Obviously decreasing cone area to put the big surround on that is trendy and makes more sells is better for the COMPANY. Big roll surrounds and style sells to the masses of people that don't know shit about subs and just want to get what looks cool or markets well.
So like I said; that's where you are wrong. "It would be better to decrease surround and keep a larger cone"
Better for you.
If the output difference is unnoticeable then I too would buy the one eith the big roll surround even knowing that I'll have a tiny dB loss, if the output is an unnoticeable difference then I'd rather have the one I think looks cooler.
Most people that arnt smart enough to read specs and check which one is louder/better, are also gunna go with the one that looks cooler. And as of late what 'looks cool' is the highroll surround and that's what sells, and that's why manufacturers choose big surrounds over a tiny bit more cone area
@@Oystein87 if you didn't understand my original comment then responding to it without asking for elaboration is kinda pointless.. and dunb
I appreciate the explanation I have always wondered this exact thing. Thank you
This was the EXACT information I was searching for. Thank you.
Okay but which one sounds the best musically?
I just learned so much just now. Thanks Sean
Anyone else play EMF videos at 1.5x speed? Love the videos and great detailed information. My next subs just might be EMF. I need 4 15's.
Lowballer 15's are super cheap right now.
That's so AWESOME everyone i talk to about the mega Surrounds on those SUBWOOFERS they all told me I'd be better off getting this SUBWOOFER or that SUBWOOFER because there's kno way that those SUBWOOFERS can get anywhere near as loud as a SUBWOOFER with a smaller Surround and more cone area the more cone area the LOUDER the SUBWOOFER would be im so glad u make these videos so i can show them and pull their cards sorry for rambling on but thank u for taking the time to make all the videos u do i really do learn alot watching all ur videos [✌🏽💪🏽🔈✌🏽💪🏽🔉✌🏽💪🏽🔊 ]
Kindda Like putting a Blower on your motor, turning that blower will rob you some power, but the power gain will sure outweigh the sacrifice!,
Good video. Will likely freak out those who think cone depth accounts for a greater surface area though.
UniCrafter Could you explain that in further detail? Why doesn’t cone depth account for cone area? A deeper cone uses more material than a shallow cone.
@@clutch7366 you've probably found the answer by now but no matter how deep the cone is your not changing the cross section of air affected in front of the cone
Always a great education
Ive always Wondered, evertime i rebuild a sub i have been just using megarolls cause thats whats popular lol...i have had to work harder on one sub cause with a mega roll it did not want to stay centered...The voicecoil took some messing with while glue was setting up
Thanks for making this video, I was always wondering if it was worth it to lose cone area in favor of xmax, and it looks like (as long as the other parts allow for the movement) its well worth it.
I always wondered about my Zv5's compared to my U series. Good video.
The U surround is actually a little bit bigger than the Zv3-like one but a similar shape.
@@EMFAudio yeah I think the zv3 is like the SA series. My U series are bigger than my old sa series woofers. These videos are very informative. Thank you for posting
@@DibeezyTheGifted The Zv3 and SA cone/surround are nearly identical short of the coil cutout.
@@EMFAudio good info bro. I appreciate it. Keep up the content
For an 18" subwoofer what cone would be best for a 5" coil?
How did you calculate the cone displacement values? Was it simply the Conical Frustum volume? And is there a way to get this value without the subwoofer in your physical presence? Thanks, great video and totally destroys the cone area is king argument.
I’m new to car audio and I have exactly same question.
My dc level 4 10's with mega roll surround have about a 6 inch cone. I requested the mega roll but the sub doesn't have the ability to use all that excursion before bottoming out, so i would recommend nobody do that. DC shouldn't even have that as an option for that particular sub. Both of my 10's are ruined and have to be rebuilt now. Great video as usual👍
so, it does loose displacement with a wider surround. u have to hope the motor can drive the cone farther to get the displacement through xmax instead of cone area, to compensate for reduced cone area.
You don't lose much with a wider surround. The motor driving it further isn't the issue, the spider and coil length is what would determine it's ability to get more out of it.
@@EMFAudioI was told u can not make a subwoofer better by rebuilding it with new soft parts....In my opinion I thought what I had built sounded better ...I was told it's all in the motor? Since the motor is the same it's not changing the spec's on the sub?
@@johnoates3326Everything effects everything. Change 1 thing, the entire speaker changes. Soft parts matter on specs, greatly, ESPECIALLY the coil. The coil alone makes a huge difference in a given motor.
@@EMFAudio wow well now I know why when I did a complete rebuild on a EVL18 new coil, new spider new cone and went with a carbon dust cap all parts from lord of bass ..I swore up and down it sounded even better than the original I was right then! I was told it was the same and there was no way I improved it because I did not alter the motor ..Damn, I wish I would if had the knowledge to argue my point but I did not....wow thats good to know now......Thank u for answering this for me I appreciate it!
@@EMFAudio the only downfall I had with this experience is I spent 220 bucks in parts to lord of bass and another 30ish or so on glues expoxy ..The sub is 280 new ..That was the sad reality for me it was not worth it....Besides for the learning experience which I am greatful for...I just thought it would of been alot cheaper to rebuild than by new
Any tips or info you can give for building a sub from start to finish? I've checked around an it seems you can buy all the part's needed to build a sub, but i don't see alot explanations on what can an can't be used. Example i seen several cones that exept 3 in coils ,but then how do i know for sure that the frame motor an spider pack with work with that cone an coil?.
Bolt pattern for the frame if it matches your motor bolt pattern it should work I've never had one that didn't as long as they bolt up ..Spider will be the size u need for your basket.... voicecoil measure and find what u need that works
Good info thanks
Donde lo puedo conseguir
So in that case mid roll surround doing better job for all frequencies..because of cone area and tall fat surround..like dd audio
The size of the roll isn't what dictates what frequencies it can play. DD's are known for not playing low well, so your example would be quite false. That, and DD uses a roll similar to the Zv3/SA/Lowballer cone, and Lowballers actually do play low pretty well. Using a megaroll on a YOLO (as I have done before, and do in my own truck) will still play 30 hz well and 65 hz fairly well. That is due to the motor and coil design, high BL, low inductance.
So does the banhammer use a smaller version of the mega roll surround?
By definition that would make it not a mega roll. It is a smaller roll, yes. The sub doesn't have the ability to move to the limits of a megaroll and doesn't need it, therefore, we did not use it.
I've read that doubling power *theoretically* adds another 3 db... I associate more power to the sub as the equivalent of more movement. More movement means more displacement. More displacement means louder...If your sub is already at xmax at "x" frequency, then does doubling power increase output at that same "x" frequency?
If it's at Xmax, it might add another 60% or something. BUT if it's at Xmech, or already far enough out of the magnetic cap, the sub will clip, as in it'll pull the surround/spider, the cone will stop moving, and the coil will likely burn up in the process.
If it's already at maximum movement, you won't gain anything. When you get to the point of nearing physical limits and adding more power does gain, it's never near theoretical. I've gotten to the point doubling power only gains 0.3-0.4 dB, but that was near the physical limits.
U confirmed what I was thinking.
I knew the mega roll cone had better displacement :)
Do u sell parts like cones baskets spider packs
There are some baskets we will sell but that's in in terms of parts right now. I'd considered opening it up to some other parts.
Is be interested in getting a carbon fiber basket.. I think that would be awesome.. like the chip fiber pressed pattern.. I think the baskets technology have been stagnant for too long. Please let me know what you think
how would the accordion surrounds of PA subwoofers compare?
They have less Xmax capabilities, but much lighter weight so less moving mass.
How do I find cone displacement? Can anyone help
See we have 4 zv5 18s in a 4th order on 2 9ks, but the subs are inverted... How would the mega roll surrounds affect that displacement?
Cone displacement is always the same. The measurement is done in the area of movement. The outside half of the surround doesn't move so it doesn't contribute to displacement.
So even from the backside of the cone, it would still create the same effect?
Yes, it doesn't matter which side is in the box. It's the same radiant surface front or back.
So how much of a db loss would it be going from spl to mega??
That would be application specific. If the application was lower frequencies you'd lose with the SPL surround coming from a mega roll. There isn't a flat amount of gain or loss.
I saw you and your car at Cars and Coffe a few months ago and man I sure do recognise you and now listing to your voice I KNOW I know you ! My only problem is i am good with faces but horrible with names and exactly where from. I started working at the old Circuit City in Greenville in 1997 and then worked at Rogers Stereo in Greenville from 1999 until 2001 when I went to Tweeter by the mall ! I had the white and red Cavalier Z24 ! Were you a customer of ours at one of those shops or did you work at ones of these around the same time frame ?
I worked at Rogers in 2000-2001 in Spartanburg and worked at Tweeter in Greenville starting when the Spartanburg store was opening. I now remember you.
Oh yes I do remember! Congratulations on your company man I am very impressed.
The bigger surrounds do add more loudness its correct.
But it is NOT all about loudness ( Unless its Big boom boom sounding car competition systems )
A bigger surround ( especially higher ) WILL make more distortion due to the amount of reflections bounced around it.
So this is actually why High Fidellity systems and professional studio systems do NOT use those.
In such conditions you want the highest quality you can get and it doesnt matter you sacrifice a few DB in loudness.
Its also the explanation why HiGh End systems typically have a much higher demand for power and a lower
output in DB/Watt Spl.
( other factors do apply too such as the coils abillity to produce a smooth linear frequency curve , where in car audio that
really doesnt matter because its only about producing the deepest and loudest bass boom )
Sound is much more than just BOOM BOOM Bass
so in systems where you want to enjoy the highest Fidellity Sound possibly you for
shure want to avoid such cones with this type of surrounds.
It all comes with compromices and sacrifices.
You want loud Boomy car bass sounding system OR do you want High End Fidellity sound in highest studio quality.
You Can NEVER get both.
I think this is worth mention in a talk about cones.
Love this video
Hmm, interesting video. Every day is a school day here. :)
Holy shit balls this video was boring!..... I fuckin loved it!
I like those small subs like 5 inches or 6 with a huge surrond, huge middle dust cap and the cone is 1/2 inch... They are very sweet in design.
Not making a joke or saying something other than what I actually saying,but my wife likes the small sub's too,and no amount of explanation about her getting a bigger sub for more bass will change her ... She says they are cute and doesn't want a big ugly monster 12" sub🤷... I have 2 rockford p3 12"s ...and going from okay sounding bass then getting in her car with her one lil' fat surround 500watt 8" sub ... I'm like 😡😡😡,but what people want always varries and we're all different so it's cool 👍her little sub does put in some work on radio music.and everyone asks if she has a 12.. so it's 😎 cool. Take care and don't let people hate on ya' 💯%...👍✌️
@@scottl3739 I'm 40 years old. I don't listen to loud hip hop music or heavy bass. For me the space inside the car is more important. Also nowadays small subs are deep and powerful enough. Yeah if you want make your car tremble go for 12 inches and as more as possible. I just listen music on low volume but I want to have a nice low end which a 5,5 or 6,5 standard car speaker cannot deliver. My ideal setup now is to get a car with a built in sound system as Harman Kardon or Burmeister (giving this examples because I like Mercedes-Benz only. Yeah that kind of car owner poor but loving only this brand). I listened a Burmeister on a S Klasse and I think is amazing! The subs are inside the central tunel next to your feet and the sound integration is amazing. Sure you can get more Power from an after market setup but I doubt they can defeat an S Klasse or a Rolls Royce Ghost in fidelity and image. I listened also the sound system in the newest Ghost as damn good. As for Power is not too shabby they have way over 2000w RMS (better check the specs cuz I don't remember right now) all those implementations so you are good to go!
Don’t the Sundown X series subs have the mega roll surround?
They do.
EMF Audio I thought they did just making sure. Cool video
Which one comes with the bannhamers 12s 2oh ?
None of them. Surrounds come in many sizes (and shapes), this is only 3 of them.
yes true,, anyone who loves theyre engines know exactly what displacement.. the cone moves in&,out plus its own ares and add that up and there's yer mumba!!!
Those surrounds aren't crazy wide. You see crazy wide surrounds on some 10in subs that easy make the cone like 6in wide
No replacement for displacement.
So flat cone surface is not ideal?
In most designs, no. Though if it's flat, it's not a cone. The only reason to have a flat piston is for mounting depth purposes. Geometrically it's not a strong surface, to make it rigid you have to add weight, which isn't helping performance.
@@EMFAudio
I know it's not a cone...but area would be smaller on flat face rather than an actual cone face of same size speaker right do to the fact of straight line compared to 2 diagonal lines or volume to no volume in same manner. Just wanted to know I should stay away from flat piston compaired to cone. And really I always thought of a 15" driver actually being a 12" driver, 12" being a 10", 10" being a 8" do to the actual moving mass of cone not the cut out size
@@vusstoppyv4612 Don't confuse cone area with surface area. The volume of displacement is based on a change, not what it takes up to begin with. Volume displacement isn't a triangulated measurement. Nobody has a flat piston because they WANT a flat piston, they have it because it's needed. If it's not needed, it won't have it. So, you aren't really making a fair comparison in subs anyway, the cone style should be the least of your concerns.
this was an excellent video
I need one of my sa 10s re coned 😪😪
I can do it if you bring it and drop it off.
I’m located in ms
@@bigheadred3528 That would be a really long drive. We don't accept them shipped in for recones.
Shucks lol who can i send it to that does good work?
@@bigheadred3528 Sundown.
I believe Vd is Sd x xmax, you are talking Vd and Vd is a big deal!!! good on you for this video, better than that budget amp compared to a high dollar amp video you did.
There will be another amp video addressing all the things people cried about that didn't matter with that amp video you speak of. The better amp will be at a disadvantage and still give a better result I suspect.
you know why we are all haters don't you? we wish we could be doing what you do!!!
I think my fi btl uses that cone
I'm not sure which cone you're referring to, but from what I know of their suppliers, it's not.
Looks like Sundown cones.
Watch the video. Spoiler alert, I say they're cones Sundown uses, and which models they go on.
@@EMFAudio I know I watched the video. I am just saying they look like sundown cones.
@@riveralley As they should, because the are.
@@EMFAudio From what I got in this video is that with the bigger the surround the more air you are able to move. Then with like the SA surround.....
And as well as getting louder from the larger surround.
2 x displacement is 6 db louder , not 3 IIRC
YRIC. Doubling displacement is 3 dB, doubling power is 3 dB. If you do both it's 6 dB.
@@EMFAudio 2 x the displacement will require 2 X the power , you don't get a free lunch in physics . 2 x the displacement has the potentialfor 6 db more SPL if you are willing to supply the required power
@@gerritgovaerts8443 You may not get a free lunch in physics, but it appears you're still hungry. It does not require double power to get double displacement. You can add a second speaker on the same power and achieve 3 dB at maximum theoretical value. Doubling power doesn't necessarily mean the sub moves twice as much either, but you may still gain 3 dB. Science says if you wan't an accurate result you don't change 2 variables, you're suggesting changing 2 variables.
@@EMFAudio I suggest you investigate the d'appolito configuration
@@gerritgovaerts8443 I suggest you learn about acoustics. What gains 3 dB is science, every acoustic white paper written in history references it.
I hate seeing companies that use the mega surround, but uses a spider that can’t travel the same distance. It’s like putting big shiny rims on a POS car
I see it happen all the time, and that's nothing new. I've seen it on subs going back to early 2000's. People see a big surround and think it will have more output, but the spider and coil limit throw.
Cool video and I was like #420 BTW!
Mhm, i've always read that adding a second speaker gives you 6db not 3db.
That would only be true if theory was always true, AND you doubled power. Doubling displacement and doubling power each offer a theoretical 3 dB gain.
Doubling total power by adding second sub at same rms. Or doubling power for each sub Wich is quadruple what you started with.
how many folk out there do know the math??
theyre only speakers its not whitch craft!!!
The only math most look at is cone area, they don't look at actual displacement. If a surround looks bigger, they make assumptions, like losing half the cone area (actual thing I've heard).
Fuck I don't care about radiant area and sound.. all I care from my speakers is to be cute and good looking. I don't even listen to music in my car too often. Is boring and annoying.
sub bass speakers wuldnt get anyware near a studio or used as studio monitors bcoz theyre not very sensitive and considered not truthful to the master sound production..
also sub or bass was generaly used to under pin sound quality not over power it..
aswell as square waves which inevitably end up getting shoved into these big n ugly beasts that eventually end up blowing said equipment thus starting the procedure all over again by getting more equipment from you!!
audiophile sound/electric engineers love to listen and love even more to question and know there's always more than one way to skin a speaker!!
has anyone tried the square4 configuration like guitar stacks..
2sieres x 2 parallel speakers wired ina square4 is still the same impedance as its 1single speaker but 4x the power,, good results cen be got...
sometimes with audio equipment bankruptcy has never sounded so good!!!!
aye mate, tis alright,, I always challenge,, maybe wind up too..
I remember doing cone suface area in my math lesson wen I was 16!!
for all that intelligence are u shure u culdnt of done a better vocation than playing with speakers??
the world is changing, and electric vehicles coming, and thats going to be more important than a alternating current voice coil noise maker!!!
speakers is something teenage boys play with ive always seen??
sorry!!
last com.....
I have 6 cars, 1 is a McLaren. What do you drive? Maybe playing with speakers isn't such a bad idea.
It's a fountain of bass youth. I'm the big 40 now... And get just as giddey putting together a sound system now as I did when I started at age 8 you fuk.