Still love the idea that Federation ships are always technically not warships. It’s an aggressive policing ship. A defensively armed science explorer ship A hospital ship with long range canons to clear a path to the emergency
@@Eradicator-jv9xr To be fair, that one was designed and first built during the Dominion war era so the federation may have been more willing to openly develop a warship but I could just imagine some engineer explaining that after the war they could just say the multi vector assault system could just be used to get better readings by scanning a thing from multiple directions or if it’s dangerous thing you can detach one section of the ship to investigate and have the other two held back to rescue the first
@@Nostripe361 A Prometheus could do surveys a lot faster than a regular starship, I imagine. More room for more powerful scanners than you could install in runabouts or probes and they’re fast as hell to get out to unmapped regions in less time. I can definitely see them charting the frontiers of known space and finding their way back to the Delta Quadrant to track Voyager’s path, especially once quantum slipstream drives were fully operational. All three sections could power the quantum slipstream and then once they’re at their destination they can split up to survey and analyze, before regrouping to collate data, give the crews some downtime, and plot the next jump.
@@joshuahadams that is a pretty good idea. Also gives an excuse for it to still have big guns despite not being a ship of war anymore. Can't have the ship so far from home being defenseless if it runs into something nasty like the borg.
The Sabre always felt to me like the frigate partner to the Steamrunner’s Torpedo Boat. The Steamrunner could bombard enemies with a bazillion photons and quantum’s, while the Sabre wore out the shields, blocked hits, and ran interference. So, rather than relegating a heavy cruiser to something like patrol: you can have three or four Sabres and one or two Steamrunners hold an entire area and support one another.
Everyone else: Steamrunner is a mid to close quarters phaser focused combat ship! People that played Star Trek Armada: What? It's a long-range sniper torpedo boat.
This reminds me of the French _Jeune École_ naval design philosophy: lots of small, fast torpedo boats to sink big-gun capital ships. Never worked, because England quickly developed rapid-fire smallish guns for their capital ships.
@@RonJohn63 Naturally. A navy by its very nature must be made up of various classes and types of ships, as no one can fill every role. And of course, one cannot stagnate and allow others to get ahead.
I have always remembered the Saber class for its participation in the liberation of Betazed in the novels. A small fleet consisting of the Enterprise-E and I believe 3-4 Sabers undertook the mission.
I love the Defiant class, but to be honest, I like the Sabre class even more. The Sabre is a nice, compact design that is still identifiable as a Federation Starfleet vessel at first glance.
The crew compliment on these ships is always my biggest gripe. A crew of 40 means each 8-hour duty shift has just 13-14 people, and only 23-24 people on the ship are awake at any given time. 13-14 people divided across six decks means only 2 people per deck per shift. The bridge crew would need at least a commanding officer, a tactical/security officer, a pilot on conn and an operations officer on ops (I imagine communications etc. would be combined into that station on a small ship). The bridge would have an engineering station and maybe a science station, although on a Saber they probably weren't manned on a standard shift. 4 people, at least, on the bridge. Engineering must have at least 2-3 people per shift, and you'd assume sickbay would have at least one person working in it per shift (my guess is one nurse per shift, with a doctor on-call 24/7, although I suppose there could just be one doctor and one nurse who are always on call with sickbay being closed and on standby when there aren't any emergencies). That doesn't leave many people per shift to work security, maintenance, the shuttle and cargo bays, deflector control, life support systems etc. What would the officer:NCO ratio be? Would there even be NCOs? Everyone would be glued to a duty station or otherwise on down time in their quarters or maybe the galley if they weren't at work. It's unlikely all six decks would even have someone working on duty per shift, with some having no one on them at times. The ship would be a ghost town. A good post for introverts, I guess. The only way I can see that crew compliment work is if the Saber class is used kind of like the Defiant on DS9: docked at a station >90% of the time, and when needed for a mission crew pile on and away it goes, with the expectation it will be back to port within a few days' time. If the Saber is out there patrolling borders for weeks or months at a time it would need more crew to take care of long-term needs of the ship, as well as more space for amenities (holodeck etc.). I'm going to assume the ship is just a standby response craft with no long-term missions, otherwise it's a stretch of the imagination to think it has 40 crew.
At current level of automation this is realistic. Only bridge and engineering would need to be manned, the rest doing preventative maintenance. And would only be fully staffed during alert conditions.
Larger ships have a lot of redundancy which requires lots of upkeep. Would a Saber even need a cargo bay? At this point, EMH was available so you are probably right about the number of medical staff. Crewmen who were assigned to torpedoes during combat likely did other maintenance on their duty shifts. So, 14 per shift doesn't seem like that bad of a number. As far as bridge crew, Defiant actually had Conn/Ops combined, with 2 tactical bridge stations, 1 engineering and 1 science. I am not sure I agree with those set ups but science probably took on other tasks as needed (special mission monitoring, cloak). I would assume that Sabers would also have 2 tactical stations and Conn. Possibly a Communications officer. I do like the bridge set-up of the Titan-A with Science, Conn, Tactical and Communications, presumably with the last three positions splitting up what had become the Ops position. In a combat environment, Communications officer seems like a necessity.
Couldn't agree more; for it's stated roles, the _minimum crewing_ for a vessel of it's size / duties is 100 ~ 120 personnel, and in a 'conflict' setting, closer to 150 (which wouldn't include a compliment of security / combat / SAR people when a mission calls for additional staffing). While I see your point about a Defiant-style staffing premise, this class of ship is (IMO) geared towards 'Sector security' or crisis reaction duties...more like a 30 days out cycle with enough stores to double it's 'away time'.
the Sabre class is a example of how Starfleet was held back by the Federation council on military matters. from the first Borg contact to the Dominion war the rapid development of far superior combat capable ships compared to the more battle orientated Klingons or Romulans to counter threats. the speed these ships were designed and built shows just because Starfleet doesn't LIKE to fight, it doesn't mean they CAN'T!
The Saber class definitely looks like a refinement of the Defiant concept. It features just about everything the Defiant pioneered, but more integrated into an actual service vessel instead of a specialized test frame. That's even apparent in the design itself: It still features the side-mounted nacelles and had an overall more compact build - but it marries those aspects with the classic federation layout by going back to longer nacelles and a distinction between saucer section and secondary hull. Where the Defiant sticks out like a sore thumb among all other federation ship designs, the Saber looks like something that feels at home next to the other classes - so to me at least it feels like the natural progression from the barely functional prototype to a proper ship.
@@nunya3163 Most of the info on armaments comes from apocrypha or licensed material, which are only "soft canon". We would have probably seen phaser cannons if they existed, true - but there was another jump in especially arms tech between the two. Easy enough to rationalize that the newer strips can keep up with the fire power of the Defiant's cannons. Especially considering they can be longer on the larger hull, for a bigger charge. The limited space may have been the main reason to use cannons in the first place. And torpedo launchers have always been inconsistent on what they can launch. For what we know they can fire any appropriately sized payload, and are just named after what's primarily stocked near them. Or it's a refit that can be done in the field. Or maybe they have explicitly quantum-capable launchers, but the only thing we've seen them fire in canon are photon torpedoes (because ammo shortage) - so that's what they were noted down as. In the end it's just a head canon connection I made up for myself. I doubt they have every detail fleshed out like that.
Basicly the equivalent of a Jem'hadar strike craft or a smaller bird of prey. A small attack ship that is easyer to produce in large numbers. Perfect wolf pack unit.
The Saber-class is one of my favourite Starfleet escorts. More economical than the Defiant-class, but still packing a decent punch. I love flying the 25th-century updated version, the Da Vinci-class.
I've always believed that Starfleet built the Saber, liked it, and simply made a bigger version with the exact same exterior design and called it Sabre. It explains why the ship is sometimes a destroyer analogue and other days a light cruiser analogue, and allows size discrepancies to be handwaved away.
I like that theory, there was a bit of info someone where it tested a new phaser emitter with its own warp core so maybe thats the one ur talking about
Perhaps redundancy? Considering that an "abandon ship" comes following a serious beating, this could ensure that the whole crew could escape even if some pods were damaged in the fight?
You have to remember they might have supplemental crew for the boarding actions that can be temp assigned to a ship like this. They would need extras for such crew.
I'd say it's because they're not a support tender (aircraft carrier or tanker) which would be big cargo bays. Small, fast, easily modified ship who can get to the latest break down, beam down 5-15 specialists and patch the ship/station/planet up quickly before the macguffin explodes. I actually couldn't imagine a much larger ship doing their job. The thought of a sovereign or galaxy full of nothing but engineers makes my mind boggle
Hands down my Favorite Federation Ship. 💙 Does not need stupid amounts of people to be manned (looking at you Galaxy) Large enough to get the job done without making it a suicide run. (or living in a sardine like the defiant) Small enough to not be a burden if lost or crippled in the line of duty Very cost-efficient, while having others ships might be more imposing, I rather have 5-10 Sabre flying around for the same work and crew. Also, it just Looks Cool. Giving the Federation vibe while also being different.
If I were to design a refit of the Sabre Class, I'd remove the phaser strip running along the top of her deflector and replace it with two omnidirectional phaser cannon's on either side of the deflector to take advantage of her maneuverability. I'd also place a short phaser strip behind the impulse reactors as there appears to be no weapons coverage of this area.
Hands down my favourite Starfleet ship...ever! I was never a fan of the saucer style ships but this ship was so different. I loved its compact design and the lovely rectangular shape. Just such a unique ship and one of my top 3 in the Star Trek universe.
Saber is a great little ship and really serves an important role in the Federation battleline. Not as expensive to make as a Defiant, lots of ablative armor, and perfectly in time to act as a screening ship against Jem'hadar attack ships, or to exploit weakness in an enemy line. After the war they made great patrol and security ships.
I do love the Sabre/Saber class. It being a Jack of All was loved by the Starfleet core of Engineers. It's one glaring tactical faux pas I would say is the design of forward shuttle bay area. In an easy redesign one would place a reinforcing rib from the underside of the projecting command bridge in an arc forward to the hulls outer edge. This would form the base for two sets of "Clam Shell" outer doors and structure to be covered in ablative Armour/armor. this would give the craft twice the hangar space as well as contour the front to match the hull thus increasing both defense and the all-important Cool Factor. ^~^
Before I even started watching this video I let loose a "HELL YEAH!". I've been waiting for this breakdown since the norway, akira, steamrunner, defiant etc. Second favourite ship in the fleet, only to the Defiant herself. Absolute badass.
The Fleet T6-X version a really fun ship to play with. With 13 console slots and an experimental weapon slot, there's a lot of room to try different builds.
I’ve really grown to like the Saber. I also noticed the similarities to an old sailing ship in the rear. The Saber is featured as the USS da Vinci in the Starfleet Corps of Engineers book series. Beta canon discusses how the SCE were given many new Saber ships.
I do love these ship breakdowns! The little Sabre became a favourite of mine with my latest STO captain. However, my favourite escort is a STO only ship: The Hermes Escort class and I would love to see that one in one of these videos one day, provided there's enough specs for it of course.
I forget who mentioned it in lore videos or where it came from, but I always liked the notion these were equipped with serious little lance-phasers that maybe weren't the most reliable after a few shots in a given engagement, but this always just seemed to make their whole tactical concept really gel for me, so they could essentially lead the charge like the cavalry sabers they were named after, (presumably during/after torpedo exchanges) then either keep going at speed or start cutting-and-thrusting around while the heavier ships bore down. If they can do that, then a few of those can also be great to keep around yer more-settled starbases/worlds for patrols and countering any big threats that might otherwise need a full starship, but with pretty darn low crew demands and prolly routine maintenance if no one's pushing the envelope. I mean, you might have pretty significant populations at early colonies and you can have em pretty well-defended in a pinch that way without undue resource drains. (A little llike DS9 used the Defiant but say you had more than a crucial space station.) Kinda working them into a story/rpg setting I'm dreaming up that way.
I have an idea for a startrek show. It wouldnt focus on a single ship, rather it would talk about multiple ships dedicating three or four episodes to each, and working up to a finale that encompasses all of these ships. We will call it startrek: Starfleet.
"How do well? Ne'er". Great ship design that does a great job showing how it should work--it's sort of obvious that it's designed with a "point towards enemy" design.
I also always liked this design, but it definitely needs a couple of phaser cannons from the Defiant class adding to its armament, given how effective they proved against other ships during the Dominion War. Perhaps they could be retrofitted in a refit or added in a later revision.
This has long been my favorite of the FC ships. I like the smaller scale of it. There exist renderings of an alternative larger scale vessel, but while I find them more visually appealing, the smaller scale is almost certainly correct, like you have it
For fans of the Sabre class, the Mk 1 variant modelled by DM Phoenix is incredible and worth digging out, it was included in CBS Ships of the line calendar 2014. AFAIK it started as an exercise to explain why the Sabre registry starts 61xxx when the USS Galaxy starts 70xxx. He also composed the USS Allegiance [Phalanx Class] for the Calendar of 2012, which afaik, was also when Tobias Richter brought the original Ambassador class sketch to life with the help of Andrew Probert for the world to admire. Time flies!
After all these years I'm still learning new things. I always thought that the saber was a tiny little piss any compared to the Defiant but now I hear that it's actually well maybe not as tough but comparable and easier to manufacture? Awesome. Thanks.
The Saber is one of my favourite designs. I build "starship" models, and I love how the Saber's nacelles come from the saucer - and I've done a number of designs with that feature. Once such design is an updated (future) version of the "Oberth" design, that has easily swappable mission pods/secondary hulls (that can be detached and replaced in the same fashion as a Galaxy Class "saucer sep" manoeuvre) - the nacelles are attached to the "saucer", making the idea of swappable secondary hulls a lot more practical. This means that the one base design of ship could be used for a number of different mission profiles.
Saber Class is also one of my favorites ... it has the look like it would fit well into star fleet but at the same time is very sturdy .... Also just now noticed something if you change the warp nacel positioning slightly or turn them around so that they stick out the back the profile from top could be down right Klingon or Romulan
Always liked the Saber class along with all 4 of the original FC ships, it's a close 2nd behind the Akira for me. Seems like Starfleets version of a Jem'Hadar fighter only bigger and better. A great choice to draw attacks away from the larger ships and the atypical angular design is really nice.
I loved the design so much I chose it to be the ship I use in my Episodic, Fan Fiction stories: Federation Installation Nine or D'Sefet's Cat House The U.S.S. Bastet, NCC-61456 is permanently assigned to FI9 to patrol the Federation/Kzinti Border. I have mentioned two other Sabre Class ships in the stories, both with only Caitian crews, the Sekmet and the Menhet.
In my head canon, Starfleet put out a request for a new escort vessel when they encountered the Borg. Two shipyard responded, one with the Defiant and the other with the Saber class. The Defiant had documented issues and Starfleet selected the Saber class for mass production.
A lot of love went into this video and it shows, it would be nice to see something a little unusual next time, lots of STO/dominion war era or simple cruisers but would like to see something different
Barely looked at this closely till this video. The bit I notice about that up-swept rear is that it could easily be the front of a secondary hull and the point at which a saucer could be placed, if a kitbash was made using parts of this.
It occurs to me, with how good Federation sensors are, powers like the Klingons and Romulans need cloaking technology... just to even the odds. Otherwise they couldn't make a move without Starfleet knowing.
That arms race started with Balance of Terror and has been ramping up ever since, methinks. Starfleet's original scientific sensors have been increasingly designed with secondary military uses in mind, and cloaking tech keeps trying to stay ahead of Fed improvements.
@@richmcgee434exactly from what I understand the federation has amazingly good sensors because of the need for them in scientific use or exploration and because they give a good counter to cloaks that they are banned from having due to treaty. They have every reason to weaken the power of cloaks. Also helps that you have starfleet engineers working on it; the ones who can make rocks into replicators
@@richmcgee434 Indeed. Military technology advances in response to your strategic needs. If your enemy has dominant aircraft, you build capable SAMs. If your enemy has superior sensors, then you need to develop superior stealth. We don't see many races in the Delta or Gamma quadrants with cloaking technology, it's telling that the Romulans and Klingons are so far ahead of the galactic standard in that regard.
Interesting potential for a battle tactic. During combat, open the shuttle bay doors, and park a runabout in each to shield the opening, use the runabout’s phasers as additional firepower. Saw that trick in star wars ep. 3
This is one of those classes that I think would have been a great basis for a different kind of Star Trek show. I mean that it would work well as a member of something like an anti-Borg task force sent out to assess that particular threat or it could have been another viewpoint in the events of the Dominion war. While we got to know about some of the battles through DS9 you don't have a war comprising of half a dozen skirmishes and a few fleet engagements, there are entire campaigns involved with stories to be told covering naval engagements, ground assaults and logistical struggles just to name a few factors. Such a show could well have highlighted the struggles of a force that had spent too much time at peace in getting their entire force featuring various ship types with specialised roles working together effectively. What could have been...
It always struck me as the evolution of the defiant class. Defiant its its sister ships were made to test a host of new concpets and theories. The Saber is the Mass production line of ship, built more practically while still embracing a major amount of those ideas. You can always chalk up variations on dimensions and decks to different production runs of ships, or changes made in the yard after they got data back from the first few off the line. Its common to say make three ships, and make changes while making the next 5 based on feedback from the crews. Sure they have a SPEC on file, but every say 5 ships they prob have minor differences between every few runs of the ships being made. This applies to all trek ships, and can account for a lot of the differences between specs you run across in guides, or even in show.
While understandable, I am somewhat surprised there are not many if any uses of "Dumb Rockets" in space battles. Naturally if you miss, you miss, but an equivalent size rocket can pack much more payload than a guided torpedo, since you don't have the guidance equipment in the way. In fact, you don't even need a warhead. I'm imagining something like a steel (Or duranium) telephone pole, something very dense. Glue a compact, overloaded warp core on the back, with a little pair of nacelles. It would only need enough fuel for a few seconds of propulsion at some absurd warp factor, to literally shear through any target. My inspiration is the US Military's LOSAT system. While that was technically a guided munition, it wasn't very maneuverable, and reached mach 4 by the time it impacted a target a few km away. It was a kinetic energy transfer weapon, also known as "Hit to Kill". You dump so much energy into your target that they are pulverized. A variation of this in universe could be a guided unit with a lower impact speed, but better hit rate. The system as a whole would require unique launch tubes, both for the shape, and to shield the launching vessel from the radiation being dumped out by the overkill warp core.
I like to think of the Defiant-class was proof of concept of a Starfleet warship. The Saber-class is a mass produced outcome of combining the Defiant's best traits and technology with Starfleet's mastery of ship building at a mass scale. It even corrects some of the issues that plagued the Defiant escorts while being slightly larger means it could be used for long ranged ops. It also means it used more practical off the shelf systems to be easier to make at record speeds. I like to the compare the Defiants and the Sabers to the Klingon's Bird-Of-Preys and the older Raptors. They're small, fast, very deadly, and woe to anyone seeing a wolf pack of very angry Defiants and Sabers.
Awesome video. I laughed when you showed the diagram of it saying stuff like, "We're Safe!", "Watch out!", "Seriously!", "Oh F**k!" lol. I always found the Saber class to be unique in its own accord. I wouldn't have minded serving on one of these. Yeah it's no Galaxy or Sovereign but hey it's still a cool ship. Also I didn't realize how the hull was matched to mirror the Galaxy class, especially underneath where the deflector dish is. The way how it looks like Deck 2 on the Galaxy Class.
On Spacedock's channel breakdown of the Saber class, Utopia Planisha turned these ships out regularly during the and The Starfleet core of engineers heavily favored the Saber because of its modularity.
I've always loved the Saber, it and the Nova are my top two favorite Federation ships. The two ships that would have been great replacements for the (giant shuttle design) Defiant. I love small ships that keep the federation design principles of a saucer, a secondary hull with a deflector, and external nacelles.
I am surprised you didn't mention the fact that a Sabre class ship was the hero ship for the SCE ebook series the USS daVinci and her crew were awesome even if they were only beta cannon.
I love you for many reasons but when you say "thats my jam" while talking lustly about "Ne'er-do-wells" oh be still my beating heart this is why Sto people geek out together.
I love the Sabre class ships. In my experience with Bridge Commander, the Sabre is a good pack hunting ship, fast and very manoeuvrable. I usually have anything from 3 to 5 sabres take down a Galaxy class ship. In lore, the sabre I would think (though could be wrong) would be more of a fleet support vessel run by the core of engineers. Taking its tactical emphasis of the class, I would think it would come under the destroyer or frigate umbrella.
It's a shame we never got a show set after the Dominion War. With the Big 3 rebuilding their empires it would naturally be a time for independent enterprising individuals and smaller powers that didn't take part in the war to take advantage. The Alpha and Beta quad would of been in a similar state to the TOS era. Smaller combat ships like the Saber and Akira that could be built quick and cheap would be on the front line of these rough times.
Wait, only two shuttles? She's got a separate hanger for each shuttle? That seems excessive. I guess it would help with redundancy but still, now you're maintaining two whole sets of doors, pressure curtains, shuttle upkeep and repair systems, and all for one extra shuttle and a few worker bees. And they're up front to boot, real estate that this design really seems to want to use for weapons.
Excellent video, helped me to decide to get a Saber in STO. The only issue I have with STO, if anyone cares lmao, y’all don’t got enough to worry about now some stranger in the town square is like, “everyone, excuse me everyone, listen to me” lmao, apologies readers lol I just noticed this though, lol. I wish they did weapon systems in STO like they are in canon. So the Saber has four type 10 phaser strips and two torpedo bays, 6 weapon systems but in STO the Saber has 4 weapon slots. I know with some of the larger ships, Scimitar immediately comes too mind, it would be difficult but the Saber, the Defiant in STO has 6 slots but in canon isn’t she super overpowered? I don’t know, I love this game, took me forever to get into it but I love it, I just wish they did the weapons a lil different.
Still love the idea that Federation ships are always technically not warships.
It’s an aggressive policing ship.
A defensively armed science explorer ship
A hospital ship with long range canons to clear a path to the emergency
What about the prometheus tho lol
@@Eradicator-jv9xr To be fair, that one was designed and first built during the Dominion war era so the federation may have been more willing to openly develop a warship
but I could just imagine some engineer explaining that after the war they could just say the multi vector assault system could just be used to get better readings by scanning a thing from multiple directions or if it’s dangerous thing you can detach one section of the ship to investigate and have the other two held back to rescue the first
@@Nostripe361 A Prometheus could do surveys a lot faster than a regular starship, I imagine. More room for more powerful scanners than you could install in runabouts or probes and they’re fast as hell to get out to unmapped regions in less time.
I can definitely see them charting the frontiers of known space and finding their way back to the Delta Quadrant to track Voyager’s path, especially once quantum slipstream drives were fully operational.
All three sections could power the quantum slipstream and then once they’re at their destination they can split up to survey and analyze, before regrouping to collate data, give the crews some downtime, and plot the next jump.
@@joshuahadams that is a pretty good idea. Also gives an excuse for it to still have big guns despite not being a ship of war anymore. Can't have the ship so far from home being defenseless if it runs into something nasty like the borg.
Love your hot takes on this hot ship!
I love the Saber Class. It’s exactly what Starfleet needed for the Dominion War.
Definitely a brawler.
This video made me realize the Saber looks a bit like a Federation take on the Jem'Hadar Fighter, beefed up to fight the Borg.
@@Richard_Tophat I never noticed that! You are absolutely correct.
It's what they needed to replace the older Miranda class ships after the war too.
I like the scimitar, it’s just a one off tho
The Sabre always felt to me like the frigate partner to the Steamrunner’s Torpedo Boat. The Steamrunner could bombard enemies with a bazillion photons and quantum’s, while the Sabre wore out the shields, blocked hits, and ran interference. So, rather than relegating a heavy cruiser to something like patrol: you can have three or four Sabres and one or two Steamrunners hold an entire area and support one another.
The sharp edges to the hull also complement the Steamrunner, whereas the Norway is much more reminiscent of the Intrepid.
I always wondered if it was like the A-wing: too small and compact to withstand much damage.
Everyone else: Steamrunner is a mid to close quarters phaser focused combat ship!
People that played Star Trek Armada: What? It's a long-range sniper torpedo boat.
This reminds me of the French _Jeune École_ naval design philosophy: lots of small, fast torpedo boats to sink big-gun capital ships.
Never worked, because England quickly developed rapid-fire smallish guns for their capital ships.
@@RonJohn63
Naturally. A navy by its very nature must be made up of various classes and types of ships, as no one can fill every role. And of course, one cannot stagnate and allow others to get ahead.
I have always remembered the Saber class for its participation in the liberation of Betazed in the novels. A small fleet consisting of the Enterprise-E and I believe 3-4 Sabers undertook the mission.
I love the Defiant class, but to be honest, I like the Sabre class even more. The Sabre is a nice, compact design that is still identifiable as a Federation Starfleet vessel at first glance.
The crew compliment on these ships is always my biggest gripe. A crew of 40 means each 8-hour duty shift has just 13-14 people, and only 23-24 people on the ship are awake at any given time. 13-14 people divided across six decks means only 2 people per deck per shift. The bridge crew would need at least a commanding officer, a tactical/security officer, a pilot on conn and an operations officer on ops (I imagine communications etc. would be combined into that station on a small ship). The bridge would have an engineering station and maybe a science station, although on a Saber they probably weren't manned on a standard shift. 4 people, at least, on the bridge. Engineering must have at least 2-3 people per shift, and you'd assume sickbay would have at least one person working in it per shift (my guess is one nurse per shift, with a doctor on-call 24/7, although I suppose there could just be one doctor and one nurse who are always on call with sickbay being closed and on standby when there aren't any emergencies). That doesn't leave many people per shift to work security, maintenance, the shuttle and cargo bays, deflector control, life support systems etc. What would the officer:NCO ratio be? Would there even be NCOs?
Everyone would be glued to a duty station or otherwise on down time in their quarters or maybe the galley if they weren't at work. It's unlikely all six decks would even have someone working on duty per shift, with some having no one on them at times. The ship would be a ghost town. A good post for introverts, I guess.
The only way I can see that crew compliment work is if the Saber class is used kind of like the Defiant on DS9: docked at a station >90% of the time, and when needed for a mission crew pile on and away it goes, with the expectation it will be back to port within a few days' time. If the Saber is out there patrolling borders for weeks or months at a time it would need more crew to take care of long-term needs of the ship, as well as more space for amenities (holodeck etc.). I'm going to assume the ship is just a standby response craft with no long-term missions, otherwise it's a stretch of the imagination to think it has 40 crew.
At current level of automation this is realistic. Only bridge and engineering would need to be manned, the rest doing preventative maintenance. And would only be fully staffed during alert conditions.
Thank you thank you thank you. Crew sizes and cruise ship amounts of windows always get me. Especially for “combat oriented” starships.
@@jimtilley1158small crew sizes for warships has never ended well when taking damage.
Larger ships have a lot of redundancy which requires lots of upkeep. Would a Saber even need a cargo bay? At this point, EMH was available so you are probably right about the number of medical staff. Crewmen who were assigned to torpedoes during combat likely did other maintenance on their duty shifts. So, 14 per shift doesn't seem like that bad of a number.
As far as bridge crew, Defiant actually had Conn/Ops combined, with 2 tactical bridge stations, 1 engineering and 1 science. I am not sure I agree with those set ups but science probably took on other tasks as needed (special mission monitoring, cloak). I would assume that Sabers would also have 2 tactical stations and Conn. Possibly a Communications officer. I do like the bridge set-up of the Titan-A with Science, Conn, Tactical and Communications, presumably with the last three positions splitting up what had become the Ops position. In a combat environment, Communications officer seems like a necessity.
Couldn't agree more; for it's stated roles, the _minimum crewing_ for a vessel of it's size / duties is 100 ~ 120 personnel, and in a 'conflict' setting, closer to 150 (which wouldn't include a compliment of security / combat / SAR people when a mission calls for additional staffing).
While I see your point about a Defiant-style staffing premise, this class of ship is (IMO) geared towards 'Sector security' or crisis reaction duties...more like a 30 days out cycle with enough stores to double it's 'away time'.
I loved the danger zone labels for the phaser bank coverage, hahahaha!
I really liked that as well and good to see the weapon coverage for the energy and torpedo hardpoints.
the Sabre class is a example of how Starfleet was held back by the Federation council on military matters. from the first Borg contact to the Dominion war the rapid development of far superior combat capable ships compared to the more battle orientated Klingons or Romulans to counter threats. the speed these ships were designed and built shows just because Starfleet doesn't LIKE to fight, it doesn't mean they CAN'T!
The Saber class definitely looks like a refinement of the Defiant concept. It features just about everything the Defiant pioneered, but more integrated into an actual service vessel instead of a specialized test frame. That's even apparent in the design itself: It still features the side-mounted nacelles and had an overall more compact build - but it marries those aspects with the classic federation layout by going back to longer nacelles and a distinction between saucer section and secondary hull. Where the Defiant sticks out like a sore thumb among all other federation ship designs, the Saber looks like something that feels at home next to the other classes - so to me at least it feels like the natural progression from the barely functional prototype to a proper ship.
It's missing the cannons and quantum torpedoes tho. This thing should have two forward cannons, and one quantum launcher.
@@nunya3163 Most of the info on armaments comes from apocrypha or licensed material, which are only "soft canon".
We would have probably seen phaser cannons if they existed, true - but there was another jump in especially arms tech between the two. Easy enough to rationalize that the newer strips can keep up with the fire power of the Defiant's cannons. Especially considering they can be longer on the larger hull, for a bigger charge. The limited space may have been the main reason to use cannons in the first place.
And torpedo launchers have always been inconsistent on what they can launch. For what we know they can fire any appropriately sized payload, and are just named after what's primarily stocked near them. Or it's a refit that can be done in the field. Or maybe they have explicitly quantum-capable launchers, but the only thing we've seen them fire in canon are photon torpedoes (because ammo shortage) - so that's what they were noted down as.
In the end it's just a head canon connection I made up for myself. I doubt they have every detail fleshed out like that.
Basicly the equivalent of a Jem'hadar strike craft or a smaller bird of prey. A small attack ship that is easyer to produce in large numbers. Perfect wolf pack unit.
A slightly bigger bug, to run around and eat all the other bugs.
These “4 Musketeers” have always been my favs!
I always thought 2 sabers and an akira would make a nifty patrol group. Pirates would just slink away in fear.
5 sabers is gonna subjugate an entire system
Interesting point on the Sailing Galleon. Makes the TOS Enterprise seem like a futuristic interpretation of that.
Uh, how?
Although the Akira is my favourite Federation ship, I love the Sabre too. A beautiful design. I never noticed the stern either, a nice touch.
The Saber-class is one of my favourite Starfleet escorts. More economical than the Defiant-class, but still packing a decent punch.
I love flying the 25th-century updated version, the Da Vinci-class.
I've always believed that Starfleet built the Saber, liked it, and simply made a bigger version with the exact same exterior design and called it Sabre. It explains why the ship is sometimes a destroyer analogue and other days a light cruiser analogue, and allows size discrepancies to be handwaved away.
I like that theory, there was a bit of info someone where it tested a new phaser emitter with its own warp core so maybe thats the one ur talking about
One of my absolute favorite little ships of starfleets, she doesn't get enough love but the books/comics with her are just great.
I’ve been waiting for this one! The Sabre is one of my favourite ‘Dominion War’ era ships!
One of the weirdest quirks of the Saber is that it has more escape pods on it's dorsal hull (74) than it has people in it's standard compliment. (40)
Ive noticed that before as well. Makes me wonder if some are decoys or something similar.
Perhaps redundancy? Considering that an "abandon ship" comes following a serious beating, this could ensure that the whole crew could escape even if some pods were damaged in the fight?
You have to remember they might have supplemental crew for the boarding actions that can be temp assigned to a ship like this. They would need extras for such crew.
Better to have more than you need than to not have enough
According to the Starfleet Corps of Engineers books, the Sabre was a favourite of the SCE.
Which really never made sense to me.
Surely combat and technical support need very different design philosophies.
I'd say it's because they're not a support tender (aircraft carrier or tanker) which would be big cargo bays.
Small, fast, easily modified ship who can get to the latest break down, beam down 5-15 specialists and patch the ship/station/planet up quickly before the macguffin explodes.
I actually couldn't imagine a much larger ship doing their job. The thought of a sovereign or galaxy full of nothing but engineers makes my mind boggle
Hands down my Favorite Federation Ship. 💙
Does not need stupid amounts of people to be manned (looking at you Galaxy)
Large enough to get the job done without making it a suicide run. (or living in a sardine like the defiant)
Small enough to not be a burden if lost or crippled in the line of duty
Very cost-efficient, while having others ships might be more imposing, I rather have 5-10 Sabre flying around for the same work and crew.
Also, it just Looks Cool. Giving the Federation vibe while also being different.
The Sabre was always immensely cool. Gives F-117/YF-23 vibes, which I love.
If I were to design a refit of the Sabre Class, I'd remove the phaser strip running along the top of her deflector and replace it with two omnidirectional phaser cannon's on either side of the deflector to take advantage of her maneuverability. I'd also place a short phaser strip behind the impulse reactors as there appears to be no weapons coverage of this area.
I want a series based on this as a hero ship. Done in old trek style.
Isn't that what the SCE books are?
Cool ship, always thought it had a vaguely Cardassian look to it.
It very much does look like an integration of Cardassian ship design with Starfleet tech/materials.
Hands down my favourite Starfleet ship...ever! I was never a fan of the saucer style ships but this ship was so different. I loved its compact design and the lovely rectangular shape. Just such a unique ship and one of my top 3 in the Star Trek universe.
Saber class is one of my favorites among the Anti-Borg designs.
Saber is a great little ship and really serves an important role in the Federation battleline. Not as expensive to make as a Defiant, lots of ablative armor, and perfectly in time to act as a screening ship against Jem'hadar attack ships, or to exploit weakness in an enemy line.
After the war they made great patrol and security ships.
I do love the Sabre/Saber class. It being a Jack of All was loved by the Starfleet core of Engineers. It's one glaring tactical faux pas I would say is the design of forward shuttle bay area. In an easy redesign one would place a reinforcing rib from the underside of the projecting command bridge in an arc forward to the hulls outer edge. This would form the base for two sets of "Clam Shell" outer doors and structure to be covered in ablative Armour/armor. this would give the craft twice the hangar space as well as contour the front to match the hull thus increasing both defense and the all-important Cool Factor. ^~^
I think the platform served a dual purpose/multiple purpose; especially when you consider that the vessel probably could float on water...
Before I even started watching this video I let loose a "HELL YEAH!". I've been waiting for this breakdown since the norway, akira, steamrunner, defiant etc. Second favourite ship in the fleet, only to the Defiant herself. Absolute badass.
The Fleet T6-X version a really fun ship to play with. With 13 console slots and an experimental weapon slot, there's a lot of room to try different builds.
I like this little bastard. I like how STO gives it to you as one of a Starfleet character's low level ships. Looks great with raised nacelles.
I’ve really grown to like the Saber. I also noticed the similarities to an old sailing ship in the rear. The Saber is featured as the USS da Vinci in the Starfleet Corps of Engineers book series. Beta canon discusses how the SCE were given many new Saber ships.
I do love these ship breakdowns! The little Sabre became a favourite of mine with my latest STO captain.
However, my favourite escort is a STO only ship: The Hermes Escort class and I would love to see that one in one of these videos one day, provided there's enough specs for it of course.
Loved the weapon arc designations!
If there was a stripped down version would that make it a ‘light’ saber class? I’ll get me coat.
6:12 - I love the weapon arc descriptions! :)
I forget who mentioned it in lore videos or where it came from, but I always liked the notion these were equipped with serious little lance-phasers that maybe weren't the most reliable after a few shots in a given engagement, but this always just seemed to make their whole tactical concept really gel for me, so they could essentially lead the charge like the cavalry sabers they were named after, (presumably during/after torpedo exchanges) then either keep going at speed or start cutting-and-thrusting around while the heavier ships bore down.
If they can do that, then a few of those can also be great to keep around yer more-settled starbases/worlds for patrols and countering any big threats that might otherwise need a full starship, but with pretty darn low crew demands and prolly routine maintenance if no one's pushing the envelope. I mean, you might have pretty significant populations at early colonies and you can have em pretty well-defended in a pinch that way without undue resource drains. (A little llike DS9 used the Defiant but say you had more than a crucial space station.) Kinda working them into a story/rpg setting I'm dreaming up that way.
Named after bladed weapons... I hoped they named one "Stiletto" just to cause a little confusion.
I also hope for a USS Shillelagh.
I have an idea for a startrek show. It wouldnt focus on a single ship, rather it would talk about multiple ships dedicating three or four episodes to each, and working up to a finale that encompasses all of these ships. We will call it startrek: Starfleet.
It would be cool, each episode happening on a different ship in the same taskforce, with the story being told as an anthology.
"How do well? Ne'er".
Great ship design that does a great job showing how it should work--it's sort of obvious that it's designed with a "point towards enemy" design.
I also always liked this design, but it definitely needs a couple of phaser cannons from the Defiant class adding to its armament, given how effective they proved against other ships during the Dominion War. Perhaps they could be retrofitted in a refit or added in a later revision.
In Star Trek Online they are capable of being armed with dual heavy phaser cannons just like the defiants if wanted.
I love this ship so much, it was the first Eaglemoss model I bought.
I've always liked the Saber because it was the ship used in the Starfleet Corp of Engineers books which were awesome. My favorite star trek books
This has long been my favorite of the FC ships. I like the smaller scale of it. There exist renderings of an alternative larger scale vessel, but while I find them more visually appealing, the smaller scale is almost certainly correct, like you have it
This is a great ship and something very fun - Post Bort/Dominion war era is my favorite time for SF ships.
This has been one of my favorite classes since first contact.
For fans of the Sabre class, the Mk 1 variant modelled by DM Phoenix is incredible and worth digging out, it was included in CBS Ships of the line calendar 2014.
AFAIK it started as an exercise to explain why the Sabre registry starts 61xxx when the USS Galaxy starts 70xxx.
He also composed the USS Allegiance [Phalanx Class] for the Calendar of 2012, which afaik, was also when Tobias Richter brought the original Ambassador class sketch to life with the help of Andrew Probert for the world to admire. Time flies!
I hadn't noticed that detail about the back of the secondary hull. Thanks for pointing that out.
After all these years I'm still learning new things. I always thought that the saber was a tiny little piss any compared to the Defiant but now I hear that it's actually well maybe not as tough but comparable and easier to manufacture? Awesome. Thanks.
Probably my favorite combat/newer Federation ship design.
The U.S.S N64 Controller. Still a great looking ship
The Saber is one of my favourite designs. I build "starship" models, and I love how the Saber's nacelles come from the saucer - and I've done a number of designs with that feature.
Once such design is an updated (future) version of the "Oberth" design, that has easily swappable mission pods/secondary hulls (that can be detached and replaced in the same fashion as a Galaxy Class "saucer sep" manoeuvre) - the nacelles are attached to the "saucer", making the idea of swappable secondary hulls a lot more practical. This means that the one base design of ship could be used for a number of different mission profiles.
Saber Class is also one of my favorites ... it has the look like it would fit well into star fleet but at the same time is very sturdy .... Also just now noticed something if you change the warp nacel positioning slightly or turn them around so that they stick out the back the profile from top could be down right Klingon or Romulan
Wasn’t the class adopted by the star fleet corps of engineers /sce due to its underdog underrated capabilities?
Always liked the Saber class along with all 4 of the original FC ships, it's a close 2nd behind the Akira for me. Seems like Starfleets version of a Jem'Hadar fighter only bigger and better. A great choice to draw attacks away from the larger ships and the atypical angular design is really nice.
The one problem I had with the Sabre class when I first saw it in the DS9 Technical Manual, I just couldn't figure out which end was the front.
It's rather easy to identify the front of Starfleet vessels. The bussard collectors are at the front of the nacelles.
Saber class has to be one of my favorites as I like the sharper look and I like the more combat oriented federation ships
I loved the design so much I chose it to be the ship I use in my Episodic, Fan Fiction stories: Federation Installation Nine or D'Sefet's Cat House The U.S.S. Bastet, NCC-61456 is permanently assigned to FI9 to patrol the Federation/Kzinti Border. I have mentioned two other Sabre Class ships in the stories, both with only Caitian crews, the Sekmet and the Menhet.
Definitely one of my favorite ships
The Saber class reminds me of a game controller for the N64. That being said, it is a beautiful and sturdy design that did Starfleet proud 🙂
In my head canon, Starfleet put out a request for a new escort vessel when they encountered the Borg. Two shipyard responded, one with the Defiant and the other with the Saber class. The Defiant had documented issues and Starfleet selected the Saber class for mass production.
I have always been curious to see what a true federation warship would look like. One truly dedicated solely for warfare defensive or offensive.
LOVE THE SABRE! Spamming them ST: Armada was so good 😂
I could go for some stories with a Sabre as the hero ship.
Thanks for this, one of my favorites too. Perfect counter to Jem bug ships.
A lot of love went into this video and it shows, it would be nice to see something a little unusual next time, lots of STO/dominion war era or simple cruisers but would like to see something different
It's one of my favorite designs. Very elegant
Barely looked at this closely till this video. The bit I notice about that up-swept rear is that it could easily be the front of a secondary hull and the point at which a saucer could be placed, if a kitbash was made using parts of this.
Thank you Rick. For yet another infirmitive video.
I have quite the love of this little ship.
looking at it from behind, it has a very ferengi marauder vibe - looks great!
It occurs to me, with how good Federation sensors are, powers like the Klingons and Romulans need cloaking technology... just to even the odds. Otherwise they couldn't make a move without Starfleet knowing.
That arms race started with Balance of Terror and has been ramping up ever since, methinks. Starfleet's original scientific sensors have been increasingly designed with secondary military uses in mind, and cloaking tech keeps trying to stay ahead of Fed improvements.
@@richmcgee434exactly
from what I understand the federation has amazingly good sensors because of the need for them in scientific use or exploration and because they give a good counter to cloaks that they are banned from having due to treaty.
They have every reason to weaken the power of cloaks. Also helps that you have starfleet engineers working on it; the ones who can make rocks into replicators
@@richmcgee434
Indeed. Military technology advances in response to your strategic needs. If your enemy has dominant aircraft, you build capable SAMs. If your enemy has superior sensors, then you need to develop superior stealth. We don't see many races in the Delta or Gamma quadrants with cloaking technology, it's telling that the Romulans and Klingons are so far ahead of the galactic standard in that regard.
This was the first ship I chose on STO.
The USS Sparrowhawk. Miss that tough little ship.
Interesting potential for a battle tactic. During combat, open the shuttle bay doors, and park a runabout in each to shield the opening, use the runabout’s phasers as additional firepower. Saw that trick in star wars ep. 3
This is one of those classes that I think would have been a great basis for a different kind of Star Trek show. I mean that it would work well as a member of something like an anti-Borg task force sent out to assess that particular threat or it could have been another viewpoint in the events of the Dominion war.
While we got to know about some of the battles through DS9 you don't have a war comprising of half a dozen skirmishes and a few fleet engagements, there are entire campaigns involved with stories to be told covering naval engagements, ground assaults and logistical struggles just to name a few factors. Such a show could well have highlighted the struggles of a force that had spent too much time at peace in getting their entire force featuring various ship types with specialised roles working together effectively. What could have been...
It always struck me as the evolution of the defiant class. Defiant its its sister ships were made to test a host of new concpets and theories. The Saber is the Mass production line of ship, built more practically while still embracing a major amount of those ideas. You can always chalk up variations on dimensions and decks to different production runs of ships, or changes made in the yard after they got data back from the first few off the line. Its common to say make three ships, and make changes while making the next 5 based on feedback from the crews. Sure they have a SPEC on file, but every say 5 ships they prob have minor differences between every few runs of the ships being made. This applies to all trek ships, and can account for a lot of the differences between specs you run across in guides, or even in show.
While understandable, I am somewhat surprised there are not many if any uses of "Dumb Rockets" in space battles. Naturally if you miss, you miss, but an equivalent size rocket can pack much more payload than a guided torpedo, since you don't have the guidance equipment in the way. In fact, you don't even need a warhead. I'm imagining something like a steel (Or duranium) telephone pole, something very dense. Glue a compact, overloaded warp core on the back, with a little pair of nacelles. It would only need enough fuel for a few seconds of propulsion at some absurd warp factor, to literally shear through any target.
My inspiration is the US Military's LOSAT system. While that was technically a guided munition, it wasn't very maneuverable, and reached mach 4 by the time it impacted a target a few km away. It was a kinetic energy transfer weapon, also known as "Hit to Kill". You dump so much energy into your target that they are pulverized. A variation of this in universe could be a guided unit with a lower impact speed, but better hit rate. The system as a whole would require unique launch tubes, both for the shape, and to shield the launching vessel from the radiation being dumped out by the overkill warp core.
I like to think of the Defiant-class was proof of concept of a Starfleet warship. The Saber-class is a mass produced outcome of combining the Defiant's best traits and technology with Starfleet's mastery of ship building at a mass scale. It even corrects some of the issues that plagued the Defiant escorts while being slightly larger means it could be used for long ranged ops. It also means it used more practical off the shelf systems to be easier to make at record speeds.
I like to the compare the Defiants and the Sabers to the Klingon's Bird-Of-Preys and the older Raptors. They're small, fast, very deadly, and woe to anyone seeing a wolf pack of very angry Defiants and Sabers.
Awesome video. I laughed when you showed the diagram of it saying stuff like, "We're Safe!", "Watch out!", "Seriously!", "Oh F**k!" lol. I always found the Saber class to be unique in its own accord. I wouldn't have minded serving on one of these. Yeah it's no Galaxy or Sovereign but hey it's still a cool ship. Also I didn't realize how the hull was matched to mirror the Galaxy class, especially underneath where the deflector dish is. The way how it looks like Deck 2 on the Galaxy Class.
But what about the Light Saber Class?
I'm lukewarm on this idea, though could work well against space in-vaders
The Ditriquadrianium spaceballs they fire are pretty OP, not gonna lie
Quite like the spin off Da Vinci class online fast agile and packs a punch. Great class of ships
If futuristic flying sailing ships is your jam, then Guns of Icarus must surely be on your radar. It's an older game, but it checks out.
On Spacedock's channel breakdown of the Saber class, Utopia Planisha turned these ships out regularly during the and The Starfleet core of engineers heavily favored the Saber because of its modularity.
I've always loved the Saber, it and the Nova are my top two favorite Federation ships. The two ships that would have been great replacements for the (giant shuttle design) Defiant. I love small ships that keep the federation design principles of a saucer, a secondary hull with a deflector, and external nacelles.
I do love the Sabre, I was so hapy when STO released the t6 version
The Sabre was the first ship I got in Star Trel online. Love it
I am surprised you didn't mention the fact that a Sabre class ship was the hero ship for the SCE ebook series the USS daVinci and her crew were awesome even if they were only beta cannon.
I like how Rick says it's not as fast as the Sovereign class, as if many ship classes of the time were.
Yissss, finally one of my favorites. A smol boi~
My #1 would be the Nova.
That rear taper is also slightly apparent on the Connie, but the Sabre is a full celebration as opposed to the Enterprise hint.
If I was a Starfleet Captain, I chose this class to command..
amaizing as always sir congratulations !
I love the onscreen joke level editing :D
I love you for many reasons but when you say "thats my jam" while talking lustly about "Ne'er-do-wells" oh be still my beating heart this is why Sto people geek out together.
I love the Sabre class ships. In my experience with Bridge Commander, the Sabre is a good pack hunting ship, fast and very manoeuvrable. I usually have anything from 3 to 5 sabres take down a Galaxy class ship. In lore, the sabre I would think (though could be wrong) would be more of a fleet support vessel run by the core of engineers.
Taking its tactical emphasis of the class, I would think it would come under the destroyer or frigate umbrella.
It's a shame we never got a show set after the Dominion War. With the Big 3 rebuilding their empires it would naturally be a time for independent enterprising individuals and smaller powers that didn't take part in the war to take advantage. The Alpha and Beta quad would of been in a similar state to the TOS era. Smaller combat ships like the Saber and Akira that could be built quick and cheap would be on the front line of these rough times.
Wait, only two shuttles? She's got a separate hanger for each shuttle? That seems excessive. I guess it would help with redundancy but still, now you're maintaining two whole sets of doors, pressure curtains, shuttle upkeep and repair systems, and all for one extra shuttle and a few worker bees. And they're up front to boot, real estate that this design really seems to want to use for weapons.
I also love Ne'er do wells.
Excellent video, helped me to decide to get a Saber in STO. The only issue I have with STO, if anyone cares lmao, y’all don’t got enough to worry about now some stranger in the town square is like, “everyone, excuse me everyone, listen to me” lmao, apologies readers lol I just noticed this though, lol. I wish they did weapon systems in STO like they are in canon. So the Saber has four type 10 phaser strips and two torpedo bays, 6 weapon systems but in STO the Saber has 4 weapon slots. I know with some of the larger ships, Scimitar immediately comes too mind, it would be difficult but the Saber, the Defiant in STO has 6 slots but in canon isn’t she super overpowered? I don’t know, I love this game, took me forever to get into it but I love it, I just wish they did the weapons a lil different.