I watch anything and everything with Dr. Francesca Stavrakopoulou in it. Brilliant, engaging, erudite, amusing, funny, entertaining, a great speaker, I *always* learn a great deal...thoroughly enjoy and appreciate any channel that profiles her.
Why and how could you learn anything? she spouted vague nonsense without being able to cite specific contradictions and made assumptions on what people thought 4500 Years ago without giving a single example why. She is supposed to be an expert and she can't give exact examples. She is nothing more than a sounding board.
Loved this interview and I totally agree on her stance with Jordan Peterson, there are no "Judeo/Christian values" this is political and ideological hybrid concept that doesn't stand to scrutiny. Also Peterson "acting" as a "Christian" without been capable to clearly state if he believes Jesus rise from the dead is such a hipocritical stance that even Muhammad Hijab said he's a posmodernist when it comes to religion and the way he uses language, which is quite true. Thanks for this interview, keep it up.
@@makanaima She's not a 'religious studies' scholar though. She's a professor of Hebrew Bible & Ancient Religion; a field where the vast majority of scholars are also believers. The underlying assumptions do not require an 'atheistic' perspective. This is different to typical scholarship of more modern fields of study like Comparative Religion, which utilise a _secular_ approach; not an 'atheistic' one.
You people are so goofy. Okay atheists can you explain to me why things in the world around you exist who created your car who built your house? Do things in the material world exist just cause because according to you folks everything just there just cause. So please explain.
I have a similar perspective to Stavrakopoulou in that I’m an atheist who’s fascinated by the Bible. Except that I was brought up in a fundamentalist Christian household with Bible study at its core. I’m so glad for her insight and adore her book ‘God an Anatomy’.
One point of clarification on New Atheism: The goal is not to remove religion. Being science minded, we are aware of the neurological basis for religious perspective (agency bias, cognitive short cuts). The aim is to remove the unwarranted immunity from critical assessment afforded the Bible and Christianity in general. It's an objection to the special pleading noted by Dr. Stavrakopoulou. We feel that so long as religion is held to the same standard as other parts of society, the negative effects can be managed.
Absolutely. I have never once heard Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens ridicule religion or those with religious faith, and I was disappointed to hear Dr Stavrakoloulou imply that they had. Their main aim is to highlight the harm caused by certain beliefs in organised religions and to point out that we should not allow this just because we have been conditioned to accept anything with a religious root as sacred and beyond criticism.
Thanks, Ryan. This was a great interview. I’m a Christian (training to be a priest!) and studying for a PhD in theology, and always appreciate and enjoy Prof Francesca’s scholarship - although we don’t fundamentally agree on a lot about religion and faith, I think there’s a lot to learn and hear about. We need to engage with this scholarship as Christians. Subscribed. Off to watch your interview with Barbara Brown Taylor now!
Thanks for the comment! Totally agree that Christians should engage with this kind of scholarship. Super important in my opinion. Best of luck on the path to the priesthood! Sounds exciting.
@sydmccreath4554 only one religion is real. That is submission to the one n only Creator n he's last messenger that gave us the answers to be successful in this life n to go to heaven.
@@MartaSpendowskaor maybe just maybe, there’s nuance to each worldview maybe The secular atheist materialist conception of the world isn’t convincing. idk just a thought 🤔
@@MartaSpendowskaor maybe just maybe, there’s nuance to each worldview maybe The secular atheist materialist conception of the world isn’t convincing. idk just a thought 🤔
Oh gosh, from the first time I came across lecture vids of his on TH-cam I thought he was just entirely cracked. Pre-infamy era, I’d guess. That he rose to fame for the goofball grifter crowd came as ZERO shock.
I've read her book God, an anatomy, and I thoroughly enjoyed it and learnt a stack. It was a really engaging writing style that imparted history and ancient thinking with lighthearted but serious appreciation (somehow at the same time) of the topic. I would recommend it.
JP really doesn't like not appearing the smartest person in the room. He would deflect and obfuscate and try to derail about the exact definition of every single word.. then go one a 10 minute ramble about Dostoyevsky to make himself sound more intellectual
@@Lee-vp8vs 😂..,👍.. if you want to take this a bit further.. look up the conversation Peterson had invited Roger Penrose to 🫣… it was … Penrose is an old wise polite English professor who won a Nobel prize. And Peterson just babled away with his word salad. Uff!
❤ thanks, I think what you suggest is called the “terror avoidance hypothesis” which explains religion as an attempt to respond to our inevitable deaths and our fear of the unknown. THANKS ❤🙏
@@theodoridi I had my (I know) own experience. A relationship that fell apart of which I never understood why. I was so broken but because I started to create answers myself I could finally give up that 'Guilt' to myself. So that I could crawled back up again, piece by piece. Whether my reasons were right in the end. No idea. Now that doesn't matter anymore. I think it's similar to what cultures did when it came to Death, for example. Making up answers, because no answer is too 'threatening' for many.
@MrCanis4 yes we need answers and explanations, while some can happily sit in the i dont care space others need that certainty and comfort that religion brings them. That there has to be a purpose for life...
Yes, that human dude's nose is very interesting, and I believe that God shaped it, as well as yours and mine, so don't make fun of it. Hence, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, or the artist, who created the design. I appreciate all the noses ,on the faces, of people in the world. The majority of them, do a magnificent job.@@AS-vq3wt
@@AS-vq3wtI am internally sorry, if anyone took offence to my previous comment. It was low and ordinary. Thank you for deleting it..... Peace be with you.
Ancient and sacred seems good enough for me to pay close attention and how it points to something time tested, worthy of reflection. But yes i think absolutism does make religious adherents overly prescriptive and intolerant. Such a great opportunity to think what has shaped us and become more authentic in my own faith as a practising Christian. I readily accept limited knowledge and potential self imposed blinders. These talks help me revisit and refine my own beliefs.Thank you for the publishing the conversation.
She so clearly understands the nuance of human fears, so erudite and educated. She will be threatened so that in itself is proof of how close to their own doubts she is getting. She’s a very brave and clever woman, as anyone who threatens her simply confirms their own doubts.
No matter what you think about Francesca which I find her perspective fascinating, I would highlight her opinion on the human condition and respect for one another. Which we need greatly in the US and around the world. Even so called religious people have a problem doing.
It's really comforting to hear this, thank you Francesca from Aotearoa, New Zealand. Our past has been passed down orally, no written text until the arrival of the missionaries and then we got lazy...
I love the way Fancesca explains the way she see the Bible , I find it also far a reality in many ways . it is history and it is interesting and you free to believe what you like . I like her way of being a atheist and she is not angry about dealing hangups like a iv noticed on youtube . Id love to hear more on her study if she had a series we could follow one a week for 30mins it would be so educating .
Thank you so much Mrs Stavrakopoulou. You have really clarified some aspects concerning mans relationship with god. I am an atheist but I am always anxious to know why some people have the need to believe and why christianism has gained such a popularity. You have answered many questions with a real intelligence anjd a profound humanity. Thank you.
Been a fan of Prof Stavrakapoulou for decades now, glad to see her being recognised across the pond. This is just me vibing as an exmuslim, but I always found it interesting that islam came out of a context (around 6th Century) when we start to see the emergence/importance of the idea of a 'true canon'/authenticity of texts, with the Quran being seen as an inerrant/infallible final testament with an extreme fetishization of the text. I've always found islam to be a kind of combination of Evangelical Christian attitudes towards Faith and Scripture (minus salvation), combined with Jewish theology and legalism (+ Arabian custom and culture).
Thank you Ryan Gosling and Dr. Stavrakopoulou. I find her scholarship refreshing, especially in a media landscape that has been dominated by narrowly focused polemicists. It's not that I disagree with 'new-atheist' arguments, but I'm much more interested in history these days.
people will not realise that an Atheist is the best person to study Religion. If you do not have a horse in the race then you can be more objective and see all the contradictions. I personally take it one step further, I refer to my self as a non believer in any Religion, Atheism is a label and it carries luggage. If I do have a label then call me a Truther for that is my only mission....
@@3rdeye399 I was pointing something out to you. You said that the label 'atheist' carries luggage & then proceeded to call yourself a 'truther.' I pointed out the enormous amount of luggage that the word 'truther' carries. This isn't hard..
@@atheist.archive the label "Truther " is one that I am happy with... I define it myself and even if I have a set idea I will always consider new evidence and am willing adapt to a new flexible model of the Universe. I think I have a good knowledge of what is truly going on but I as an individual cannot prove anything 100% and that is why I have to remain flexible. As for 9/11 I have my own ideas and have used very basic science to realise that the logic does not add up with the narratives spun...alternative dozens of clues were intentionally left that conscious beings should have noticed but failed to do so. 9/11 however is not the biggest event...the biggest one took place around 250 years ago but no-one has worked it out......
Another great discussion from Francesca Stavrakopoulou, always enlightening. She is absolutely right about jordan peterson being deeply troubling and quite stupid too.
I knew a guy who studied theology at Oxford and he said that he was the only one who was still religious at the end of the program. I think that the more you swim in it you either believe more or become an atheist. I was still religious when I dropped out of an MDiv program. But after stepping out for a bit, my wife and I turned to each other one day and almost said at the same time, this is not helping. And we walked away from religion just like that. I would be curious to hear from those out there who have suffered through losing a child to cancer or a young spouse, how they make sense of it. Did they keep their faith? Or get stronger. There research out there that suggests that atheists don’t live as long. We don’t know if it is from a lack of the social bonds or from giving your worries over to god. I do miss the choral singing. I was in the men‘s choir and we had a mixed choir, awesome polyphony. Woulda made Old Bach cry. I have met as many people who were impacted by experiences in Buddhism or just secular psychology to know that it is not just Christianity which changes people. The problem for Christianity now is, in the marketplace of ideas, how do you demonstrate Christianity is true without appeals to the Bible? The Muslim quotes from the Koran, there you go, proof! The Bahai quotes from the Bahuulah‘s teachings, sorry not sure of the spelling there. So Christians, what do you do?
the underlying assumption of many religious studies scholars (certainly when I went to college) is an atheistic one. so there can be no conclusion that leads to a faith based answer. it must isually have a historical or political answer.
@makanaima. Well adding MANY to your previous statement make it much more fair, but what does many mean? Is this based on Pew data? To your earlier statement I was going to say that scholars don’t read the Bible in a devotional manor, they certainly look for historical and political context, but that’s like saying that painters work with paint. In debates that I have watched of Bart Ehrman he never says, the Bible is not true and here’s why… he might say that there was no historical record of the Egyptians enslaving the Jews, and the Egyptians were good record keepers. You might like to read the Bible devotionally and not apply modern scholarship to it, my advice would be to take a pass on the PhD in Biblical studies. Are you saying that modern Biblical criticism doesn’t understand the Bible? I had a year of NT Greek and attempted to translate the first chapter of the Gospel of St John. The options were bordering on the infinite for how to translate it. Translations are based a lot on agreement between scholars. You don’t like what Stavropoulou is saying? Have you read what she’s read? Are you able to debate her in a scholarly manner? If so, go at her bro. But I am guessing that is not the case and she would open a scholarly whoop @$$ on you. But if you don’t like how scholars operate, don’t come to a channel and complain about their Modus operandi. If you have the goods, open a can and show us what you got. Otherwise go back to your devotional channel and be told what you want to hear. Peace
The death threats might be more about certain "cults" not wanting their secrets exposed because they don't want to lose control of their flock. I know someone who has gotten death threats.
She's brilliant. I am amazed that people devoutly believe in a God and religion. Even as a young child, the stories just seemed so highly improbable and nonsensical that i rejected religious instruction.
@numbernine8571 Occams Razor - the simplest explanation is usually most likely to be correct - if im a childs mind it doesnt seem possible then only willfully wanting it to be true like all good conspiracy theories will make it so. Believers (conspiracy theorists) are prone to the illusory truth effect whereby you say something enough times and it becomes your truth.
Regarding the comment that there are so many bibles in the world: I have wondered whether that number is so large because many/most of those bibles are published by groups pushing their religion on others, rather than bibles acquired by believers.
You wouldn't get death threats from an atheist! Love Francesca and the work she's done. We should view religion as human history, but leave it in the past.
Great questions. A nice holistic interview where it’s not too specific on something she’s doing right now. You covered all the questions I had. Rlly good, thanks for this video 💪🏼
Focus on what Jesus taught, use your Christian faith to help yourself and others. Loving other people, letting go of grudges, and living in the present instead of worrying is a good thing
Thank you I'm a big fan of her work. All of the historical scholars who work on some aspect of the Bible I've read are secular, Joel Baden, Ehrman, Litwa, Richard Miller, Carrier, Price, Mcdonald, Finklestein, John Collins, Mary Boyce, Lataster, Kipp Davis, John Tabor, J.Z.Smith, Klause, and many more. It's very common in critical-historical scholarship. I have yet to read a peer-revied historical work who argues as a believer. Some start out fundamentalist but see the evidence and are forced to face the reality of what it demonstrates. It's the theologians who are religious. They, like all theologians in Islam, Mormonism and so on, assume their text is from God.
Good interview, and it's always interesting to hear her points of view. I did take issue with one of the remarks about the "new atheists" as they're called. Christopher Hitchens was once asked if he would erase religion from the world if he had the ability to do so, and he said no. He said "Religion is part of the human make-up. It's also part of our cultural and intellectual history. Religion was our first attempt at literature, the texts, our first attempt at cosmology, making sense of where we are in the universe, our first attempt at health care, believing in faith healing, our first attempt at philosophy." He was anti-religious in the sense that he opposes the totalitarianism inherent in the idea of gods, especially monotheism, and he thinks a lot of the stuff that's presented as moral good by proponents of world religion is actually deeply awful, and that many religions cause more harm than they do good, and I agree with him on all of that. But he never wanted the world to rid itself completely of religion. As for the comments on Jesus' historicity, I think I agree with her that the best we can say is he probably existed. I think her reasons for saying that are not the reasons I would pick, because anyone who is familiar with the rise of urban myths, cargo cults and things of that nature will see that completely ridiculous false beliefs can pop up in a shorter timespan than the time between when Jesus allegedly lived, and when the earliest writings show up. But I still think it is likely some apocalyptic preacher from Nazareth that might as well be called Jesus did show up, and ended up being executed. Nothing special about that. But as for how he died, what happened to his body, the miracles, sayings attributed to him and all that, I think that's a lot more confused and uncertain - except of course we know miracles aren't real. They were obviously parlor tricks like cold reading and planted stooges and so forth.
I wonder if his opinion would have changed had he lived through a trump presidency and jan 6th and lived every day after that seeing how they want to do it again.
@sydmccreath4554 There are thousands of years of history showing how abrahamic religions have always been used the same way. I would give you a list but youtube won't allow it. The more you know...
@sydmccreath4554 Your response speaks volumes for your level of intelligence and historical understanding religion. How do you respond with such babel and not actually say anything or put together a coherent thought?
The idea of an angry and vengeful God and a loving and forgiving God was developed and supported by Gnostics in 2nd century CE. Marcion just formulated the first authoritative book (similar with the New Testament) around 150 CE. The idea of 2 Gods is not new.
At 55:20, clearly, the translation movement and the introduction of knowledge through the exchange with the islamic world through the crusades and Andalus has more to do with the progress the western civilisation was able to achieve. Actually, Christianity and the control of the Church was one of the main reason why the dark ages are called as such!
Dr. Stavrakopoulou has an almost uniquely talent for presenting very complex cultural and historical themes and inter-related evolutions in an accessible and understandable way. It isn't that she is trying to convince any one of anything other than the objective facts and the full extent of their context to the extent that we know it. She is an excellent scientist and I deeply appreciate her scholarship and generosity in sharing her studies. Going from his other public comments, I believe the reason that Jordan Peterson is so enamored of Christianity is two-fold. First, it is already woven into the accepted mythos and identity of the United States imperial character. Some American Christians would have a hard time electing a non-Christian, (though Jews would get more of a pass.) Secondly, Christianity became very hierarchical during the Roman period and if there is something that Jordan really likes is hierarchies. Anything that keeps the extant social structure in place is going to be on his "must-do" list.
The Epic of Gilgamesh and The Laws of Ur-Nammu predate the story of Jesus by 3000 years. Ancient Eastern Civilizations don’t recognize the idea of good versus evil and flourished without any exposure to Jesus or God. The creation/origin stories from Sumerian to Zoroastrian heavily influenced the story of Jesus. The story of a virgin birth was invented because it fit the narrative of the writer to not only control, it created a birth story that was uniquely divine but also created a powerful control mechanism. Purity and chastity was written to view women as property and was designed for strategic political alliances through marriage. Linking sex, morality, and religion became a powerful tool for strategic alliances. Creating a system of inaccessibility and illiteracy was the perfect control mechanism for society. Ensuring society believed the afterlife was better than anything imaginable and infinite while also ensuring society believed that couldn’t directly speak tobGod. Created a terrifying unified force excited to die for a cause and a powerful and corrupt organization claiming to be a divine conduit, show how easy and how quickly tyrant can be justified. It also showcases a very human characteristic of self enrichment. A very powerful and real polarization of us versus them that has led to violence and devastation.
I find Francesa’s respectful skepticism very palatable as a full bible believing Christian. And yes all of us must suspend our belief systems, revisit it and test it undeterred to find a new, relevant and better truth.Appreciate the many useful points! Proverbs 18:15 “An intelligent man is always open to new ideas, in fact he looks for them”
Francesca your a great scholar. I'm a rational and humanist like you. My question is why Christianity is called Judeo-Christian tradition when its a Hellenic-Levantine tradition? Judaism in an anthology of Persian, Egyptian, Assyrian and Mesopotamian mythical stories and traditions. Its time overdue to rewrite this false perception and solve the present mess in the Middle East. The whole Middle East was Hellenized and Jews and Middle Easterners were speaking and writing in Greek. Also were two Hellenic dynasties in the area ,the Seleucid dynasty based in Antioch and the Ptolemaic dynasty based in Alexandria Egypt. Apostle Paul was a Hellenized Jew from Antioch and Philo a Hellenized Jew from Alexandria. The two dynasties were antagonized each other. They were also different Hellenic philosophical schools in the entire region. What was their influence on those people?
In the esoteric view of looking at scriptures and religion is that these people reached some sort of enlightenment, and where trying to explain what they figured out to the masses and much of it is misunderstood or twisted by those who seek power over others
I really need to hear more detailed explainations of her reasonings. This video is glancing over many topics rather quickly and I am not hearing anything new, I have heard theist scholars already give plausible answers to. I would like to have a video of her actually tackling the existing arguments against her stance. A debate with Wesley Huff would be interesting.
i always see the bible and Torah as RPG anime manga from the middle east😅 now I'm gonna start reading this chic professor book which I just bought yesterday God: An Anatomy😅
I Wonder if Dr Stavrakopoulo is aware of the Recent Archaeological discovery ( dated Approx. 200 AD) of a Mosaic floor writing proclaiming that Jesus is GOD..Maybe she can give us her explanation in her next conference???
That does not mean he was real. Are you well? I read a that a some big hairy bloke said to some weird kid " you're a wizard Harry" how you explain that?
Asking someone why they study the Bible even though they are an atheist, is like asking someone why do they study Homer or Hesiod if they don't make sacrifices or pray to Zeus and the Olympian gods. There is something called academic study because of interest. Homer's influence on western culture, art and literature is vast. But we no longer believe in the Olympian gods. The Bible's influence is even greater with the difference being that the God of the Bible still has approximately 2 billion living followers of various denominations.
Having also read the Bible, I can confirm that Francesca is correct. You can read many places in the Old Testament that describe God and morality just like the nice stuff people like in the NT. Look at Isaiah and other places where God is critiquing Israelite behaviour. Also, it's just as common the NT writes about things commonly found in the OT. The problem is that atheists and religious people like myself who became atheist actually read the bible as it is and can't be fooled by these tactics --- these excuses.
I would love to hear her explain the Dead Sea Scrolls, their dating and how she would tear that down as she has the entire belief system of not 1 but every religion on earth other than Hindu and Buddhism. She expressed her view but I haven't heard a single scientific proof to support her theories. She's just saying that it is contradictory but the thing she also needs to realize is the Bible was translated back and forth from several different languages. I can't in good conscience agree with her assessment.
Love listening to Francesca. This atheist also loves religious myths and stories. If you enjoy the Bible, check out the Hindu epics Mahabharata and Ramayana. Great fun!
I would love to see this lady talk with "Paul Wallis" (an ex Anglican priest of more than 30 years), of the "the 5th kind" and "Paul Wallis" TH-cam channels. Also, what does she say, in relation to the original languages and alphabets of the Bible???
When you read the Bible, it’s very hard not to fall down with laughter. As mythology the Greek mythologies are superior and with no need to believe as factual. They are literature, stories that are profound.
As an atheist who has tried reading the Bible but couldn't get past the first couple of pages, we need people like Francesca to study the Bible...religious people shouldn't have dibs on that and of course they could have massive bias. I'd way rather hear Francescas opinion than some Christian "scholar".
A profoundly thoughtful and insightful interview. We need more - much more - of this woman.
I watch anything and everything with Dr. Francesca Stavrakopoulou in it. Brilliant, engaging, erudite, amusing, funny, entertaining, a great speaker, I *always* learn a great deal...thoroughly enjoy and appreciate any channel that profiles her.
Why and how could you learn anything? she spouted vague nonsense without being able to cite specific contradictions and made assumptions on what people thought 4500 Years ago without giving a single example why. She is supposed to be an expert and she can't give exact examples.
She is nothing more than a sounding board.
@@bh5317 Sorry you couldn't keep up. Maybe try other channels more your speed...cartoons or something. Best of luck. 😁
@@ChronicExcessiveManlinessThat is a statement made based solely on bias, hatred, and blind faith.
@@bh5317 You mean...facts, evidence and science. Happy to correct your incorrect verbiage. 😁
@@ChronicExcessiveManliness As I thought, you don't have anything that resembles a coherent argument.
Loved this interview and I totally agree on her stance with Jordan Peterson, there are no "Judeo/Christian values" this is political and ideological hybrid concept that doesn't stand to scrutiny.
Also Peterson "acting" as a "Christian" without been capable to clearly state if he believes Jesus rise from the dead is such a hipocritical stance that even Muhammad Hijab said he's a posmodernist when it comes to religion and the way he uses language, which is quite true.
Thanks for this interview, keep it up.
remeber that the underlying assumption of religious studies scholars is an atheistic one.
@@makanaima She's not a 'religious studies' scholar though. She's a professor of Hebrew Bible & Ancient Religion; a field where the vast majority of scholars are also believers. The underlying assumptions do not require an 'atheistic' perspective.
This is different to typical scholarship of more modern fields of study like Comparative Religion, which utilise a _secular_ approach; not an 'atheistic' one.
As a fellow atheist, I really admire and share Francesca's perspective on religion as part of the human condition.
It absolutely is.
Humans created their Religion and their God becasue they somehow needed it.
This is not a new idea either.
It's as old as the hills.
@@DJ_DopamineHumans created religions any prove about that godless alone trash?
You people are so goofy. Okay atheists can you explain to me why things in the world around you exist who created your car who built your house? Do things in the material world exist just cause because according to you folks everything just there just cause. So please explain.
@@Unique377Keep your faith!
@@st.george007 My faith is unbreakable my love for God is unquestionable I have no doubts he is my savior!
I love Francesca, she is very smart, eloquent, well spoken and very funny. Watched many interviews with her, and every single one was great.
Stavrakopoulou is an amazing scholar. I respect her research.
Francesca is pure joy to hear and I thank her for all that she does to help people understand this book written by men and for men.
Big thumbs up.
I have a similar perspective to Stavrakopoulou in that I’m an atheist who’s fascinated by the Bible. Except that I was brought up in a fundamentalist Christian household with Bible study at its core.
I’m so glad for her insight and adore her book ‘God an Anatomy’.
One point of clarification on New Atheism: The goal is not to remove religion. Being science minded, we are aware of the neurological basis for religious perspective (agency bias, cognitive short cuts). The aim is to remove the unwarranted immunity from critical assessment afforded the Bible and Christianity in general. It's an objection to the special pleading noted by Dr. Stavrakopoulou. We feel that so long as religion is held to the same standard as other parts of society, the negative effects can be managed.
Thanks for the additional info/context. Much appreciated!
❤❤❤
'the neurological basis for religious perspective'... sounds like you've found your religion..
Absolutely. I have never once heard Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens ridicule religion or those with religious faith, and I was disappointed to hear Dr Stavrakoloulou imply that they had. Their main aim is to highlight the harm caused by certain beliefs in organised religions and to point out that we should not allow this just because we have been conditioned to accept anything with a religious root as sacred and beyond criticism.
@@MAO-ib9tccalling out the religious for their bad behaviour- the abuse of children, larceny and support for totalitarianism is entirely fair.
With Dr S in any video I will watch. Her balance and confidence around the content is amazing.
Thanks, Ryan. This was a great interview. I’m a Christian (training to be a priest!) and studying for a PhD in theology, and always appreciate and enjoy Prof Francesca’s scholarship - although we don’t fundamentally agree on a lot about religion and faith, I think there’s a lot to learn and hear about. We need to engage with this scholarship as Christians.
Subscribed. Off to watch your interview with Barbara Brown Taylor now!
Thanks for the comment! Totally agree that Christians should engage with this kind of scholarship. Super important in my opinion. Best of luck on the path to the priesthood! Sounds exciting.
I hope u leave false religion n worship God alone.
@sydmccreath4554 only one religion is real. That is submission to the one n only Creator n he's last messenger that gave us the answers to be successful in this life n to go to heaven.
@@MartaSpendowskaor maybe just maybe, there’s nuance to each worldview maybe The secular atheist materialist conception of the world isn’t convincing. idk just a thought 🤔
@@MartaSpendowskaor maybe just maybe, there’s nuance to each worldview maybe The secular atheist materialist conception of the world isn’t convincing. idk just a thought 🤔
Dr. Francesca is a very knowledgeable scholar. I recently heard of her, and I wished to have known more of her works 10 years ago.
“And for that reason, I find Jordan Peterson, in all sorts of ways, deeply troubling and quite stupid.”
That one felt so good to hear.
I totally agree.
Yep, when he stays in his psychology lane he's alright, the rest it becomes clear he's reaching
Oh gosh, from the first time I came across lecture vids of his on TH-cam I thought he was just entirely cracked. Pre-infamy era, I’d guess. That he rose to fame for the goofball grifter crowd came as ZERO shock.
Great convo! I love Dr. Stavrakopoulou, and I am thankful for her work as a writer and educator!
Just found out about her, can't get enough!
I've read her book God, an anatomy, and I thoroughly enjoyed it and learnt a stack. It was a really engaging writing style that imparted history and ancient thinking with lighthearted but serious appreciation (somehow at the same time) of the topic. I would recommend it.
Jordan Peterson debating Francesca Stavrakopoulou... THAT I would watch!
Why should prof Stavrakopoulou waste time on that angry litle man with a blown up ego ?
You must be a masochist.
JP really doesn't like not appearing the smartest person in the room. He would deflect and obfuscate and try to derail about the exact definition of every single word.. then go one a 10 minute ramble about Dostoyevsky to make himself sound more intellectual
I would only watch it to see Peterson humiliated by a woman...something that reactionary mysgenonist would hate so much!
@@Lee-vp8vs 😂..,👍.. if you want to take this a bit further.. look up the conversation Peterson had invited Roger Penrose to 🫣… it was … Penrose is an old wise polite English professor who won a Nobel prize. And Peterson just babled away with his word salad. Uff!
As long as people are terrified of the questions “Where do we come from, why are we here, and where are we going?” they will create their own answers.
❤ thanks, I think what you suggest is called the “terror avoidance hypothesis” which explains religion as an attempt to respond to our inevitable deaths and our fear of the unknown. THANKS ❤🙏
@@theodoridi I had my (I know) own experience. A relationship that fell apart of which I never understood why. I was so broken but because I started to create answers myself I could finally give up that 'Guilt' to myself. So that I could crawled back up again, piece by piece. Whether my reasons were right in the end. No idea. Now that doesn't matter anymore.
I think it's similar to what cultures did when it came to Death, for example. Making up answers, because no answer is too 'threatening' for many.
Thanks for your honesty, which seems to be related to “truth”. Very best wishes to you. 👍🙏
@MrCanis4 yes we need answers and explanations, while some can happily sit in the i dont care space others need that certainty and comfort that religion brings them. That there has to be a purpose for life...
@hanlens_on_hiatus there is no certainty in religion.
Francesca - a refreshing breeze of sanity❗
As a theist I am thoroughly thankful for honest opposing views. Death threats on this woman are shameful, just a disgrace. Stay safe folks 🙏🕊🕆
As an atheist, i appreciate theists like you
I just noticed the dude's nose 👃 What is going on with that??????
Yes, that human dude's nose is very interesting, and I believe that God shaped it, as well as yours and mine, so don't make fun of it.
Hence, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, or the artist, who created the design. I appreciate all the noses
,on the faces, of people in the world. The majority of them, do a magnificent job.@@AS-vq3wt
@@AS-vq3wtI am internally sorry, if anyone took offence to my previous comment. It was low and ordinary. Thank you for deleting it..... Peace be with you.
@@AS-vq3wtIt was broken at some point. Like Stephen Fry's, or quite a few boxers!
Ancient and sacred seems good enough for me to pay close attention and how it points to something time tested, worthy of reflection. But yes i think absolutism does make religious adherents overly prescriptive and intolerant. Such a great opportunity to think what has shaped us and become more authentic in my own faith as a practising Christian. I readily accept limited knowledge and potential self imposed blinders. These talks help me revisit and refine my own beliefs.Thank you for the publishing the conversation.
Wonderful interview Ryan and Francesca! Very informative...
Thank you! I very much appreciate your time and information! 😊
He is in love, and who can blame him.
Francesca speaks so refreshingly about the subject and it really was a great discussion.
She so clearly understands the nuance of human fears, so erudite and educated. She will be threatened so that in itself is proof of how close to their own doubts she is getting. She’s a very brave and clever woman, as anyone who threatens her simply confirms their own doubts.
More please!
No matter what you think about Francesca which I find her perspective fascinating, I would highlight her opinion on the human condition and respect for one another. Which we need greatly in the US and around the world. Even so called religious people have a problem doing.
Thank you! She’s brilliant
Francesca is so great. Congratulations.
One of my favorite scholars. Just came across his it was a fantastic conversation. Enjoyed it.
Dr Francesca Stavrakopoulou is my favourite scholar on biblocal studies. She informs my atheism so much.
It's really comforting to hear this, thank you Francesca from Aotearoa, New Zealand. Our past has been passed down orally, no written text until the arrival of the missionaries and then we got lazy...
I love the way Fancesca explains the way she see the Bible , I find it also far a reality in many ways . it is history and it is interesting and you free to believe what you like . I like her way of being a atheist and she is not angry about dealing hangups like a iv noticed on youtube .
Id love to hear more on her study if she had a series we could follow one a week for 30mins it would be so educating .
Thank you so much Mrs Stavrakopoulou. You have really clarified some aspects concerning mans relationship with god. I am an atheist but I am always anxious to know why some people have the need to believe and why christianism has gained such a popularity. You have answered many questions with a real intelligence anjd a profound humanity. Thank you.
Been a fan of Prof Stavrakapoulou for decades now, glad to see her being recognised across the pond. This is just me vibing as an exmuslim, but I always found it interesting that islam came out of a context (around 6th Century) when we start to see the emergence/importance of the idea of a 'true canon'/authenticity of texts, with the Quran being seen as an inerrant/infallible final testament with an extreme fetishization of the text. I've always found islam to be a kind of combination of Evangelical Christian attitudes towards Faith and Scripture (minus salvation), combined with Jewish theology and legalism (+ Arabian custom and culture).
Thank you Ryan Gosling and Dr. Stavrakopoulou. I find her scholarship refreshing, especially in a media landscape that has been dominated by narrowly focused polemicists. It's not that I disagree with 'new-atheist' arguments, but I'm much more interested in history these days.
people will not realise that an Atheist is the best person to study Religion. If you do not have a horse in the race then you can be more objective and see all the contradictions. I personally take it one step further, I refer to my self as a non believer in any Religion, Atheism is a label and it carries luggage. If I do have a label then call me a Truther for that is my only mission....
Like the 9/11 "truthers?"
@@atheist.archive there are many truths but there are even more lies...most people cannot distinguish between either...can you..
@@3rdeye399 I was pointing something out to you. You said that the label 'atheist' carries luggage & then proceeded to call yourself a 'truther.' I pointed out the enormous amount of luggage that the word 'truther' carries. This isn't hard..
@@atheist.archive the label "Truther " is one that I am happy with... I define it myself and even if I have a set idea I will always consider new evidence and am willing adapt to a new flexible model of the Universe. I think I have a good knowledge of what is truly going on but I as an individual cannot prove anything 100% and that is why I have to remain flexible. As for 9/11 I have my own ideas and have used very basic science to realise that the logic does not add up with the narratives spun...alternative dozens of clues were intentionally left that conscious beings should have noticed but failed to do so. 9/11 however is not the biggest event...the biggest one took place around 250 years ago but no-one has worked it out......
An atheist is perfectly suited for theological studies. The atheist hasn't got a horse in the race.
I love Franceska!
This was insightful
A very well constructed interview. TY to you both for the robust and on point Q&A. 🎯
Both a beauty and a scholar. Ελληνιδάρα θεά!!
Really awesome...thank you
Another great discussion from Francesca Stavrakopoulou, always enlightening. She is absolutely right about jordan peterson being deeply troubling and quite stupid too.
I have no words Francesca's coversations have captivated me, I buying her book now
I knew a guy who studied theology at Oxford and he said that he was the only one who was still religious at the end of the program. I think that the more you swim in it you either believe more or become an atheist. I was still religious when I dropped out of an MDiv program. But after stepping out for a bit, my wife and I turned to each other one day and almost said at the same time, this is not helping. And we walked away from religion just like that. I would be curious to hear from those out there who have suffered through losing a child to cancer or a young spouse, how they make sense of it. Did they keep their faith? Or get stronger. There research out there that suggests that atheists don’t live as long. We don’t know if it is from a lack of the social bonds or from giving your worries over to god. I do miss the choral singing. I was in the men‘s choir and we had a mixed choir, awesome polyphony. Woulda made Old Bach cry. I have met as many people who were impacted by experiences in Buddhism or just secular psychology to know that it is not just Christianity which changes people. The problem for Christianity now is, in the marketplace of ideas, how do you demonstrate Christianity is true without appeals to the Bible? The Muslim quotes from the Koran, there you go, proof! The Bahai quotes from the Bahuulah‘s teachings, sorry not sure of the spelling there. So Christians, what do you do?
the underlying assumption of many religious studies scholars (certainly when I went to college) is an atheistic one. so there can be no conclusion that leads to a faith based answer. it must isually have a historical or political answer.
@makanaima. Well adding MANY to your previous statement make it much more fair, but what does many mean? Is this based on Pew data? To your earlier statement I was going to say that scholars don’t read the Bible in a devotional manor, they certainly look for historical and political context, but that’s like saying that painters work with paint. In debates that I have watched of Bart Ehrman he never says, the Bible is not true and here’s why… he might say that there was no historical record of the Egyptians enslaving the Jews, and the Egyptians were good record keepers. You might like to read the Bible devotionally and not apply modern scholarship to it, my advice would be to take a pass on the PhD in Biblical studies. Are you saying that modern Biblical criticism doesn’t understand the Bible? I had a year of NT Greek and attempted to translate the first chapter of the Gospel of St John. The options were bordering on the infinite for how to translate it. Translations are based a lot on agreement between scholars. You don’t like what Stavropoulou is saying? Have you read what she’s read? Are you able to debate her in a scholarly manner? If so, go at her bro. But I am guessing that is not the case and she would open a scholarly whoop @$$ on you. But if you don’t like how scholars operate, don’t come to a channel and complain about their Modus operandi. If you have the goods, open a can and show us what you got. Otherwise go back to your devotional channel and be told what you want to hear. Peace
At least what comes to me is more it’s acceptance
Thank you for showing the truth.
The death threats might be more about certain "cults" not wanting their secrets exposed because they don't want to lose control of their flock. I know someone who has gotten death threats.
She's brilliant. I am amazed that people devoutly believe in a God and religion. Even as a young child, the stories just seemed so highly improbable and nonsensical that i rejected religious instruction.
i have read that same comment a million times "i was a child and i
didn't believe blah blah blah......"
@numbernine8571 Occams Razor - the simplest explanation is usually most likely to be correct - if im a childs mind it doesnt seem possible then only willfully wanting it to be true like all good conspiracy theories will make it so. Believers (conspiracy theorists) are prone to the illusory truth effect whereby you say something enough times and it becomes your truth.
Regarding the comment that there are so many bibles in the world: I have wondered whether that number is so large because many/most of those bibles are published by groups pushing their religion on others, rather than bibles acquired by believers.
And how many are purchased to be placed in hotel/motel rooms.
@@jimmythestorytellerGood point! The Gideons have boosted the sales a lot!
Yup, I've never had any other religions just the God botherers knocking on my door pushing their faith on me.
She's terrific.
You wouldn't get death threats from an atheist!
Love Francesca and the work she's done.
We should view religion as human history, but leave it in the past.
She’s wonderful.
Great questions. A nice holistic interview where it’s not too specific on something she’s doing right now. You covered all the questions I had. Rlly good, thanks for this video 💪🏼
Great interview. Reading God an anatomy was one of the final coffin nails for my lifelong Christian faith.
Focus on what Jesus taught, use your Christian faith to help yourself and others.
Loving other people, letting go of grudges, and living in the present instead of worrying is a good thing
Brilliant.
just finished watching this for the second time, and enjoyed it once again. Thank you :)
Finally someone saying it as it is. Monotheism is euphemism for misogyny
India is a polytheistic country and HIGHLY misogynist.
I've read "God An Anatomy." Fascinating!
I miss talking with people like this, like her, in circled of the church/christian community.
I'm interested in the coat hook that's only a half way up the door.
I love her great podcast!
Great interview ❤
Thanks for the conversation Professor Stavracoupou❤️🤗🙏
Thank you I'm a big fan of her work. All of the historical scholars who work on some aspect of the Bible I've read are secular, Joel Baden, Ehrman, Litwa, Richard Miller, Carrier, Price, Mcdonald, Finklestein, John Collins, Mary Boyce, Lataster, Kipp Davis, John Tabor, J.Z.Smith, Klause, and many more. It's very common in critical-historical scholarship. I have yet to read a peer-revied historical work who argues as a believer. Some start out fundamentalist but see the evidence and are forced to face the reality of what it demonstrates.
It's the theologians who are religious. They, like all theologians in Islam, Mormonism and so on, assume their text is from God.
Good interview, and it's always interesting to hear her points of view.
I did take issue with one of the remarks about the "new atheists" as they're called. Christopher Hitchens was once asked if he would erase religion from the world if he had the ability to do so, and he said no.
He said "Religion is part of the human make-up. It's also part of our cultural and intellectual history. Religion was our first attempt at literature, the texts, our first attempt at cosmology, making sense of where we are in the universe, our first attempt at health care, believing in faith healing, our first attempt at philosophy."
He was anti-religious in the sense that he opposes the totalitarianism inherent in the idea of gods, especially monotheism, and he thinks a lot of the stuff that's presented as moral good by proponents of world religion is actually deeply awful, and that many religions cause more harm than they do good, and I agree with him on all of that. But he never wanted the world to rid itself completely of religion.
As for the comments on Jesus' historicity, I think I agree with her that the best we can say is he probably existed. I think her reasons for saying that are not the reasons I would pick, because anyone who is familiar with the rise of urban myths, cargo cults and things of that nature will see that completely ridiculous false beliefs can pop up in a shorter timespan than the time between when Jesus allegedly lived, and when the earliest writings show up. But I still think it is likely some apocalyptic preacher from Nazareth that might as well be called Jesus did show up, and ended up being executed. Nothing special about that. But as for how he died, what happened to his body, the miracles, sayings attributed to him and all that, I think that's a lot more confused and uncertain - except of course we know miracles aren't real. They were obviously parlor tricks like cold reading and planted stooges and so forth.
Interesting point re: Hitchens. Thank you for that clarification & context. Much appreciated!
I wonder if his opinion would have changed had he lived through a trump presidency and jan 6th and lived every day after that seeing how they want to do it again.
@sydmccreath4554 There are thousands of years of history showing how abrahamic religions have always been used the same way. I would give you a list but youtube won't allow it. The more you know...
@sydmccreath4554 Your response speaks volumes for your level of intelligence and historical understanding religion. How do you respond with such babel and not actually say anything or put together a coherent thought?
I'd love to hear Francesca giving her thoughts on the none sense that GAIA put out about ancient civilizations and often touch on the bible etc
The idea of an angry and vengeful God and a loving and forgiving God was developed and supported by Gnostics in 2nd century CE. Marcion just formulated the first authoritative book (similar with the New Testament) around 150 CE. The idea of 2 Gods is not new.
You know much more than her. She doesn't sound like a scholar.
No, she is briliant. She knows a lot. The issues under discussion needs more space to be explained. @@coconoir6187
@@coconoir6187but she is a scholar factually, actually, literally.
Just because you don't like what she says doesn't diminish her credentials
@@coconoir6187The OP writes one short paragraph and from that you surmise that the OP knows more than her? Where’d you get your PhD?
At 55:20, clearly, the translation movement and the introduction of knowledge through the exchange with the islamic world through the crusades and Andalus has more to do with the progress the western civilisation was able to achieve. Actually, Christianity and the control of the Church was one of the main reason why the dark ages are called as such!
@@strandedstarfish you convinced me now! 🤣
Dr. Stavrakopoulou has an almost uniquely talent for presenting very complex cultural and historical themes and inter-related evolutions in an accessible and understandable way. It isn't that she is trying to convince any one of anything other than the objective facts and the full extent of their context to the extent that we know it. She is an excellent scientist and I deeply appreciate her scholarship and generosity in sharing her studies.
Going from his other public comments, I believe the reason that Jordan Peterson is so enamored of Christianity is two-fold. First, it is already woven into the accepted mythos and identity of the United States imperial character. Some American Christians would have a hard time electing a non-Christian, (though Jews would get more of a pass.) Secondly, Christianity became very hierarchical during the Roman period and if there is something that Jordan really likes is hierarchies. Anything that keeps the extant social structure in place is going to be on his "must-do" list.
Dr. FS is always great scholarship!
The Epic of Gilgamesh and The Laws of Ur-Nammu predate the story of Jesus by 3000 years.
Ancient Eastern Civilizations don’t recognize the idea of good versus evil and flourished without any exposure to Jesus or God.
The creation/origin stories from Sumerian to Zoroastrian heavily influenced the story of Jesus.
The story of a virgin birth was invented because it fit the narrative of the writer to not only control, it created a birth story that was uniquely divine but also created a powerful control mechanism. Purity and chastity was written to view women as property and was designed for strategic political alliances through marriage.
Linking sex, morality, and religion became a powerful tool for strategic alliances. Creating a system of inaccessibility and illiteracy was the perfect control mechanism for society.
Ensuring society believed the afterlife was better than anything imaginable and infinite while also ensuring society believed that couldn’t directly speak tobGod. Created a terrifying unified force excited to die for a cause and a powerful and corrupt organization claiming to be a divine conduit, show how easy and how quickly tyrant can be justified. It also showcases a very human characteristic of self enrichment. A very powerful and real polarization of us versus them that has led to violence and devastation.
As an atheist I find Francesca absolutely beautiful, not relevant or even PC but true all the same! 🙂👍
I find Francesa’s respectful skepticism very palatable as a full bible believing Christian. And yes all of us must suspend our belief systems, revisit it and test it undeterred to find a new, relevant and better truth.Appreciate the many useful points! Proverbs 18:15 “An intelligent man is always open to new ideas, in fact he looks for them”
Francesca your a great scholar. I'm a rational and humanist like you. My question is why Christianity is called Judeo-Christian tradition when its a Hellenic-Levantine tradition? Judaism in an anthology of Persian, Egyptian, Assyrian and Mesopotamian mythical stories and traditions. Its time overdue to rewrite this false perception and solve the present mess in the Middle East. The whole Middle East was Hellenized and Jews and Middle Easterners were speaking and writing in Greek. Also were two Hellenic dynasties in the area ,the Seleucid dynasty based in Antioch and the Ptolemaic dynasty based in Alexandria Egypt. Apostle Paul was a Hellenized Jew from Antioch and Philo a Hellenized Jew from Alexandria. The two dynasties were antagonized each other. They were also different Hellenic philosophical schools in the entire region. What was their influence on those people?
Prof. Francesca is awesome!
She just a pretty face, I think her conclusions are driven by bad presupposition and the horrible drug called conative dissonance
@@hudsontd7778no don't be silly.
Actually listen and learn
@@hudsontd7778 😂 The projection is strong with you. Feeling a bit insecure, are we?
She is brilliant ! Really enjoyed her book.
On the other hand, it is good to know that one should not look for a list of good Israeli restaurants in the Bible.
It's always great to listen to ms. Unpronounceable. Clarity of thought and eloquence
Her name is easy to pronounce, if you actually look at it and can be bothered to respect it!
@niblick616 Oh grow up you petulant brat
What a great open and honest and realistic conversation. I also love Richard Rohr
In the esoteric view of looking at scriptures and religion is that these people reached some sort of enlightenment, and where trying to explain what they figured out to the masses and much of it is misunderstood or twisted by those who seek power over others
I really need to hear more detailed explainations of her reasonings. This video is glancing over many topics rather quickly and I am not hearing anything new, I have heard theist scholars already give plausible answers to. I would like to have a video of her actually tackling the existing arguments against her stance. A debate with Wesley Huff would be interesting.
Amazing
I have a huge crush on that woman!!!
Amazing interview with such a briliant scholar. And finally someone give a perfect description of this totally useless guy 56:40! Kudos!
i always see the bible and Torah as RPG anime manga from the middle east😅
now I'm gonna start reading this chic professor book which I just bought yesterday
God: An Anatomy😅
I always thought the inscription that says "...king of the house of David" is about a king of the "House of the beloved".
I Wonder if Dr Stavrakopoulo is aware of the Recent Archaeological discovery ( dated Approx. 200 AD) of a Mosaic floor writing proclaiming that Jesus is GOD..Maybe she can give us her explanation in her next conference???
It's not a recent discovery, it's ~20 years old now. What is there to explain?
That does not mean he was real. Are you well? I read a that a some big hairy bloke said to some weird kid " you're a wizard Harry" how you explain that?
And this discovery proves what again...
Asking someone why they study the Bible even though they are an atheist, is like asking someone why do they study Homer or Hesiod if they don't make sacrifices or pray to Zeus and the Olympian gods. There is something called academic study because of interest. Homer's influence on western culture, art and literature is vast. But we no longer believe in the Olympian gods.
The Bible's influence is even greater with the difference being that the God of the Bible still has approximately 2 billion living followers of various denominations.
To whom may be interested: Mauro Biglino’s books could be an interesting discovery.
Having also read the Bible, I can confirm that Francesca is correct. You can read many places in the Old Testament that describe God and morality just like the nice stuff people like in the NT. Look at Isaiah and other places where God is critiquing Israelite behaviour. Also, it's just as common the NT writes about things commonly found in the OT. The problem is that atheists and religious people like myself who became atheist actually read the bible as it is and can't be fooled by these tactics --- these excuses.
I envy Dr Francesca Stavrakopoulou's students. I would have so many questions.
God Bless this marvelous, brilliant, courageous and sincere woman)
I would love to hear her explain the Dead Sea Scrolls, their dating and how she would tear that down as she has the entire belief system of not 1 but every religion on earth other than Hindu and Buddhism.
She expressed her view but I haven't heard a single scientific proof to support her theories. She's just saying that it is contradictory but the thing she also needs to realize is the Bible was translated back and forth from several different languages. I can't in good conscience agree with her assessment.
Fascinating interview with Franceska Stavrakopoulou, modern day faith = Cognitive dissonance.
Love listening to Francesca. This atheist also loves religious myths and stories. If you enjoy the Bible, check out the Hindu epics Mahabharata and Ramayana. Great fun!
AGREED, but just as misleading 😂 🙏
I would love to see this lady talk with "Paul Wallis" (an ex Anglican priest of more than 30 years), of the "the 5th kind" and "Paul Wallis" TH-cam channels.
Also, what does she say, in relation to the original languages and alphabets of the Bible???
I've had a crush on her since i saw her on history channel
Yes, intellectuals of het caliber can exude a lot of sex and she has plenty of it!
Was it an intellectual crush or was it a physical kind cuz she really oozes a lot of sex or most probablt both?
😀
When you read the Bible, it’s very hard not to fall down with laughter. As mythology the Greek mythologies are superior and with no need to believe as factual. They are literature, stories that are profound.
As an atheist who has tried reading the Bible but couldn't get past the first couple of pages, we need people like Francesca to study the Bible...religious people shouldn't have dibs on that and of course they could have massive bias. I'd way rather hear Francescas opinion than some Christian "scholar".
Religion seems to offer some kind of escape from real life.