# 37 Why do spa heaters fail?

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ต.ค. 2024
  • 37 A detailed explanation of exactly why hot tub heater fail and why it can be so dangerous if your GFI is not working properly, Test your GFI regularly.

ความคิดเห็น • 67

  • @luisfercr2447
    @luisfercr2447 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very simply explained and very well illustrated with those examples. Thanks so much! I learned a lot.

  • @teargardens
    @teargardens 9 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    As someone who loves to fix various random things, I found this to be very insightful. Thank you for taking the time to make that video. Shalom

  • @jeepsolo7218
    @jeepsolo7218 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video. Thanks for showing the dangers. That is crazy.

  • @c8210951
    @c8210951 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Great tutorial but the best tests procedure for testing a heater element like this to ensure its safe, and if a fault does occur during operation, it will trip the GFI or RCD (which would be a crime not to have one fitted!) is to carry out an insulation test using a high resistance insulation test meter. This will show up any earth leakage faults under operating conditions that may go un detected by using an low resistance ohmmeter. Therefore you ALWAYS use an insulation test meter, noted they are more expensive and many people just don't have one at hand!
    Anyway the test procedure:
    1. Yes insure the circuit is isolated.
    2. Yes, ensure the heater is disconnected from the circuit board to prevent the high insulation test voltages damaging the sensitive electronic components.
    3. Place a shorting link (wire with two alligator clips each end) across both the heater terminals.
    4. Connect red lead of your insulation tester to anyone of the heater terminals that are linked. Connect the black lead to the metal ground posts of the heater. Set the meter to megohms and test voltage to twice the working voltage of the component under test ie 230V heater use 500Vdc. (Yes we apply a dc test voltage).
    5.Carry out the insulation test, the resistance must be greater than 1meg ohm. If not the the heater has failed and should be replaced. Note sometimes a low insulation reading could be just damp and drying out will improve the reading but this is a judgment call.
    Finally if you ever wondered what the measured heater continuity resistance should be then use this simple formula: Resistance = Voltage squared / Power (Watts)
    Hope this helps.

  • @martynashville1140
    @martynashville1140 9 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very educational. I just fix my Balboa VS series heater at no cost. Just like you explained very minor corrosion, in my case it was just "white dust" on the terminals, cause the GFI to trip instantly. I was able to clean up the connection terminals, reconditioned the robber seals with "CRC" silicon spay and the problem was solved. These robber seals have a tendency to shrink when it is very cold. We just had a very cold winter, causing the seal to seep. It might just have been condensation the caused the corrosion. Thank you for sharing,

    • @timothyconnett5642
      @timothyconnett5642 9 ปีที่แล้ว

      Marty Nashville Hi, My name is Tim. Could you please tell me what your symptoms were to make you think is was the heater. My problem is setting it on 104, but only getting to 95/98. Was this your problem?
      Thank You. timothyconnett@gmail.com

  • @MRZ28DAD
    @MRZ28DAD 8 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you so much, Corroded element terminals was the problem. Saved me a pile of time and money. Cheers

  • @softcellelectrical
    @softcellelectrical  12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Not sure if it was in this video, but on one job the 'pool guy' diagnosed the problem as a broken wire underground. Ohms test good from source throughout. Tested GFI, did not pop. Next I tested heater to ground (with power shut off) and it showed full continuity on both legs. This condition could have killed the homeowners. I replaced heater and GFI disconnect. No more shocks + one year warranty. Some jobs only a qualified sparky should do. Thanks for the comment Mr. Stoveman.

  • @stoveman
    @stoveman 12 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video ! I disconnected the heating element and the GFI didn't trip. The pump came on, so I now know the heater is bad. That non GFI is scary as can be. Who would hook 220v or even 120v to a water pump source without a GFI ? Even my outlets outside for the patio are GFI protected. The stuff people do is amazing !!! Kind of like using a hair dryer in the bathtub.

  • @saviers1
    @saviers1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    very informative! here years past posted date and appreciate this!

  • @urielcaraveo4389
    @urielcaraveo4389 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank u I learned a lot from you very detailed

  • @daurakcar
    @daurakcar ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome explanation thank you

  • @frostbiten
    @frostbiten 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    My left ear enjoyed this

  • @softcellelectrical
    @softcellelectrical  11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I appreciate your interest in the subject. I have lost four friends to this disease and am likely to lose two more within the nest year or so. I have to be very cautious about what I say on this subject and although I would like to endorse certain products or organizations it is strictly forbidden by TH-cams TOSs (I think so anyway) So I just put little plugs in here and there. Thank you Miguel.

  • @philliphall4506
    @philliphall4506 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you good information I just changed mine.

  • @softcellelectrical
    @softcellelectrical  12 ปีที่แล้ว

    That's what it sounds like to me. Testing a motor is easy but testing a pump is very difficult. For starters take the intake filter off-with pump on high it should just about suck your hand through the hole (two or more holes--you need to block all but one) On low speed it should still have good suction. Worst case: pull pump out and disassemble head and check for debris OR the pump itself may have come loose from the motor-either way your hands get dirty. Hope this helps-thanks for comment.

  • @TheVanlander
    @TheVanlander 10 ปีที่แล้ว

    I dont know that my hot tub has a GFI which I am assuming is a circuit breaker of sorts, Ill be doing some research in order to find one. Thanks for the video Ive never been fond of 240v running through my veins.

  • @rxforpain6870
    @rxforpain6870 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video. Extremely well done. Thanks!

  • @lowlypawn
    @lowlypawn 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good info! This is exactly what happened to my spa when my GFI tripped.

  • @Waynermills
    @Waynermills 10 ปีที่แล้ว

    thanks this helped me to understand i cleaned up sealed and now works perfectly.next time i wont put so much bubble bath in the tub ;)

  • @gmglickman
    @gmglickman 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've had two heaters go bad exactly like that -- corrosion at the terminals -- each after one year of service in a new spa, over the winter when the unit was drained. Where is the leak possibly coming from when the spa is out of service?

  • @twmissmt
    @twmissmt 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have NO signs of arcing, water leakage or iron oxides, nor any circuit breaking yet my heater is only heating 10 degrees per 24 hrs. Does that indicate a bad element or a bad flow sensor?

  • @swedishkev
    @swedishkev 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    HI again, I have got my balboa circuit board back from the repairers. It warms only to 29 degrees even if I have it set for 38 degrees. All relays have been changed. When I lowered the heat to 26, I see the temp light goes off. And I hear a small click. Then I put it back to 38 and get a small click. The heat light then flashes and then is steady after 90secs. but it is not going over 29 ? The fuses look fine, but the big main one is not glass, so would need to check that one. I checked the AC current on the element, with it all powered up, And it read nothing. is this strange or what? The element is warmish to touch not hot to burn yourself. I need to switch it off now to check, the ohms. just checked the ohms, around 18,9-19? What does this mean if it is not around 11 or 12? I don't know where the problem is, any ideas?

  • @990cse990
    @990cse990 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Just my thought, but I think the copper bars between the board and the heater is the root cause of the failure. I replace them with wire loops.

  • @guymaresh4714
    @guymaresh4714 8 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Two dissimilar metals causes corrosion / rust as well. So you have the metal that the heating element is using, the metal tube, the metal nut and the lug metal type all being different. This causes all sorts of possibilities for corrosion. Increasing the resistance of the connection. Then ultimately causes pitting that allows the water to leak.
    Which ultimately means these are poorly designed!

  • @cabcorner1
    @cabcorner1 12 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Excellent vid . Thanks for the lesson.

  • @gregclockmaster4904
    @gregclockmaster4904 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks John - very helpful vid. BTW, I had the most uncommon failure...the element itself. Somthing is triggering my Jacuzzi Select panel to pass voltage to the element even after the pressure switch "opens" when the motor stops. I hope it's not in my circuit board.

  • @xx2times
    @xx2times 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow Great Video, I just picked up a used 6 Person Hot Tub/ for a steel the owner satated that it all if great except when the heater tpops on the gfi trips, after watching your video and an inspection of the heater i can see where the water leaked out. Hope this fixes the proplem.

  • @robmitt187
    @robmitt187 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank you

  • @paulbaluch439
    @paulbaluch439 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you so much for the technical information

  • @softcellelectrical
    @softcellelectrical  11 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Well, grounding is one of the single most important items in all of electrical. With that said, 240 volt GFCI breakers have been around for quite some time now. Any voltage to ground (originating from either leg or even stray voltage) will automatically trip the 240 breaker. I personally do not trust GFCI breakers anymore. Parting note: no real electrician would ever wire a device ungrounded unless it were specifically prohibited in article 250.

  • @keriandangieunderwood8146
    @keriandangieunderwood8146 9 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi. We have a 2006 sunrise hot tub. A new heater was installed before we got it however after initial set up at our place, the heater did not work at all. Heater was taken back to supplier who tested/looked at heater and element was apparently faulty so they replaced it at no cost. We used tub for a week (about 4 times us actually in the spa) but now heater appears to have stopped working again. As far as I can tell there is no corrosion etc so I am just wondering if you have any ideas what could be causing this? Thanks for your time and expertise its appreciated.

  • @waynewhitehead9203
    @waynewhitehead9203 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    When testing the heater with the leads disconnected in a 240 volt system should each lead be running at 120 volt? The breaker did not pop ,when I checked the voltage on each lead I got 115 volts on one and about 6 volts on the other.
    Thanks Wayne

  • @ZeroMass
    @ZeroMass 9 ปีที่แล้ว

    Dont tell me that these are installed on the pressurized side of the pump?

  • @softcellelectrical
    @softcellelectrical  11 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I ran out of room, but it could actually be your control pad. This would be extremely rare but it does happen from time to time. A control pad is something that you can replace yourself and is about 1/8 the cost of the mother board. I DO NOT want to steer you into spending money needlessly, so please take my advice with a grain of salt. I just speak from experience and not vocational school. Best regards.

  • @jarber71
    @jarber71 10 ปีที่แล้ว

    HI John, I have a 2005 downeast master spa. The breaker trips after 5-10min of operation. (all pumps come on) It sounds like the heater but you mention its rarely the heating element but the corrosion. My heater has no corrosion what so ever, looks brand new. I have not bought a multi-meter as of yet to test posts. But wanted to get your thoughts on this. Thanks

    • @softcellelectrical
      @softcellelectrical  10 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Disconnect the electrodes to the heater. If the GFI hold, it is the heater.

  • @anthonydelarosa9367
    @anthonydelarosa9367 10 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for the info. It was informative.

  • @sailor1901
    @sailor1901 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    You play up GFIC, and I think they are great, but they may fail (note the test button, hopefully it fails when you test it and not when you are in the tub). The Ground Conductor is your first defense make sure you have a good (over sized) ground connection through out your home system! The 240V line to line source is only 120 volt to ground the arcing is from the electrode to the grounded conductor. Keeping the metal case at near ground potential.

  • @softcellelectrical
    @softcellelectrical  12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Tells me your using 5760 Watts, older heaters are rated at 5500 watts. If it IS a 5500K heater then it is beyond the 3% range of acceptability:Run two tests. with power OFF test for continuity between either electrode and ground-continuity=bad heater-next test your heater legs when powered up. A good 'brain' will give you from 244 to 238 NOMINAL-less voltage would indicate a bad board-last, verify the pressure sensor is working. Thats all I can fit. Hope this helps you out. gut feeling-the board

  • @bean2594
    @bean2594 9 ปีที่แล้ว

    There doesn't seem to be must insulation between the two hot terminals and the outside pipe of the heater. There could be a long length of insulation similar to the porcelain spark plug insulator.

  • @dreid1784
    @dreid1784 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Most common cause of failure is the actual insulation in contact with the water on the element ! Period ! In 30 years I have not had a failure do to iron oxide arcing out the terminals as the water leaks out at point lower than the insulation surrounding the terminal connection and below the retaining nuts usually. Testing element that is tripping GFCI or not working involves turning off power to unit, disconnecting leads to the element, then using and ohm meter , test between leads and should see approx 5 -20 ohms depending on wattage of heater . If it is very high or out of range then replace element. Testing one for causing GFCI trip is best done with water still in heater tube. Test from one terminal at a time to the heater tube, any reading below the out of range (any number including zero) indicates a fault so replace element.
    Most heaters element can be replaced without the tube with a few exceptions that are just to difficult due to design. Teflon coated elements help in hard water areas to avoid some calcium buildup and titanium elements resist chemistry fluctuations better.
    Corrosion can sometimes be electrolysis due to voltage but as stated before usually due to poor chemistry (90+% of the time) hence the corrosion shown where the water was leaking and chemistry also degrades the seals at the ends with the same effect leakage.
    It is meaned that the ground was useless when there was no GFCI. Not true as the customers would not be around to tell you the water tingled if there had not been a ground as they would have been the only path to ground then!

  • @softcellelectrical
    @softcellelectrical  11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I will be honest. I don''t know what the Ohm reading should be with the pressure switch open or closed. I would start with replaced the switch. If the problem persists then it is most likely a mother board issue. That is where you have to make a decision to replace the mother board (very expensive) or to sell your spa 'as is' and buy a new one. The economy has cut the cost of Hot Tubs by 40% on a feature by feature basis. Good luck and thanks for the comment.

  • @pipedreams57
    @pipedreams57 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    What about the Brett Aqualine style of heater that is mounted inside a plastic housing?

  • @DarioMiticocchio
    @DarioMiticocchio 9 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    am I the only one that can't hear the audio? works fine during the ads and stops during the video :(

  • @bopro5637
    @bopro5637 8 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thanks now Im scared to get in my hot tub lol

  • @pengyulin89
    @pengyulin89 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey John, one of my hot tub Heater terminals is burned out(with iron ox on it, just like in the video), the connector on circuit board is complete burned out. Can I hot wire it to 220V mean AC line on the Circuit board ? or this there a way to fix it without to buy a new circuit board_)

  • @craigsmith4436
    @craigsmith4436 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The underlying reason WHY they fail in such ways is WATER CHEMISTRY. PH too low, 7.2 and lower. Sanitizer (chlorine/bromine) too high, above 5ppm. Water not getting changed every 4 months where TDS and especially CYANURIC ACID levels too high as a result of constantly adding chlorine, acid builds up over time without draining/refilling often. Not oxidizing (shock) the water often, so a buildup of high levels of old used inactive chlorine is always present. (above 12PPM)

  • @tdorty3
    @tdorty3 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    My heater has been disabled and I see a FLO error on my display. I jumped the pressure switch and the display indicates the heater is working, but the circulation pump doesn't seem to be working. The two pumps that power the jets work fine. Do you think my it's a clear case of a bad circulation pump?

  • @thefacaa
    @thefacaa 11 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Wow. You ever heard of poor water chemistry? Low ph = acidic water = corrosion. This is one of the top reasons why heater elements fail.
    Replacing a heater tube instead of just heater is non sense.

  • @robnystrom5690
    @robnystrom5690 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can't u clean the electronics?

  • @sailor1901
    @sailor1901 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    GFIC only protects against a 120 Volt shock not 240Volt shorts. if you have no ground and L1 is in contact with your heater and L2 is in contact with your uninsulated pump or ungrounded hand rail, you are dead and your GFIC will never trip. GFICs and grounding are meant to work together!!! Just a reminder to EVERYONE!

  • @doctoredit7354
    @doctoredit7354 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can you sand off the oxide?

  • @softcellelectrical
    @softcellelectrical  11 ปีที่แล้ว

    TH-cam, PLEASE forgive me. I accidentally hit play. It was an honest mistake and will not happen again. I was just editing some of the titles and screwed up. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE FORGIVE ME!!!!!!!

  • @5centsr
    @5centsr 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    No audio!

  • @frankthomas2412
    @frankthomas2412 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Water heats up to 72 that’s it ,what is next

  • @sportscarclinic
    @sportscarclinic 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    John, you don't know what you're talking about. Period. The element of the heater is USUALLY the part that fails. It's a resistor that gets really hot, especially when the spa FAILS TO PROVIDE ENOUGH COOLING WATER.

  • @ELVISRN1
    @ELVISRN1 10 ปีที่แล้ว

    I HAD 4 ELEMENTS FAIL AND WAS TOLD IT WAS DUE TO WATER QUALITY.

    • @jamesmccluskey1476
      @jamesmccluskey1476 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      me too exactly. 4 heaters in 4 years, danggit.

  • @pamsmith5507
    @pamsmith5507 9 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video thanks, now I know how to get rid of my wife. A++++

  • @softcellelectrical
    @softcellelectrical  12 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Go back to math school. Actually you save more like 90%. And let's say 'Thousands' is actually 2000. Hmmm, that is 1 heater every day for 5 and a half years. Oh yeah, and GFIs fail in the closed position, which can be deadly. And my CRAZY advice is derived from 23 years in the field and holding a Master License for 8 years. I was eager to watch one of your videos on 'element replacement' but oh...there isn't ONE video that you have posted. Have a wonderful day Miguel.

  • @pierrelabbe3173
    @pierrelabbe3173 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Love. ✌👀🔥❌🔤🔺🔻🌐