Can we take a moment to acknowledge the caliber of writing this guy consistently gives out? Sebastian is cold with the pen 🥶🥶🥶 Edit: Thanks for the likes! Sebastian, hope you're seeing this. You are appreciated ❄️ ❄️ ❄️
Cold Take might be my favorite Escapist show. Good and well thought-out arguments, exceptionally written and in a way that is both entertaining and intriguing, and presented with voice-over in the absolutely perfect vibe.
There is another reason for major game studios to not do demos. To maintain message control. If they have a mediocre game and they want to turn a profit it makes more sense to have the marketing department ensure that only people who are going to be friendly with thier messaging/reviews have access and even then only to a carefully curated footage.
One of my favorite demos was for Grandia on the PS1. It was an RPG but they offered two gameplay demos. One was exploring the starter town to get a sense for the story. And the second one was a combat demo a little later in the game. It got me to buy the game.
The writing and delivery of these cold takes is always so enthralling. I can't help but have a smile on my face the entire listen-through. Listen-through because the truly great imagery of the writing requires no supplementary visuals. On a platform that so often abuses video to prop up mediocre writing or easy jokes, to not require anything beyond a monologue is a delight.
I'm sensing a pattern forming with these videos, where frost leaks his next topic with that opening line said over someone pourin alcohol. Last week you mentioned the Pizza Hut Demo discs, and this week we hear about demos. I'm callin' it, next week will be about a new category of games.
What timing! I just finished a demo for my game this week. It’s a bit early in the development process to release, but this has really made me think much more about how valuable demos are to potential players.
@@Mucha_Hawlucha it’s a 2D side-view Action-Platformer focused on exploration and combat! The special mechanic is that you also control a floating arrow that you can separate from yourself to attack or solve puzzles at range. (I’m in the process of making some videos about the game but it’s hard to balance with dev time 😅)
It really is a shame how demos have been slated hard. I distinctly remember finding some of my favorite games back in the 360 days simply by playing through their demos and having a blast. Dungeon defenders was a notable one. Locked to the first level and only 2 classes with half of their abilities unlocked but it still gave just enough of that taste of the games synergy and mechanics that I bought it flat out as soon as I could. The steam demo fest is probably the thing I look forward to the most nowadays for upcoming games
I love demos and any game dev that is brave enough to put out a demo of their game deserves at least a tiny bit of my attention. I try to check demos out. I have bought games after trying their demos. Whenever people are talking about a game they find cool it's awesome to hear: "You can try the demo of this cool game I've been playing"
I loved game demos growing up, they were essential to me having no means of buying games myself and only very very very rarely ever being given any games, and mostly those where whatever was most discounted
Before the times of internet for most people, trying those floppy disk demos in the early 90s that the stores had, was awesome. I remember trying games like Jazz Jackrabbit, Doom, Kings Quest, etc. You'd still pay a few dollars for the demo floppy disks, but a fraction of the cost of the full games. And that was how you found out which games were actually worth the full purchase. Awesome times from my very early childhood!
The best demo ever is the one for Ocarina of Time in Super Smash Bros Brawl. It's not only one of the reasons I'm such a huge Zelda fan, but you can also speed run the entire actual game through it.
I remember when I was still a kid. Buying gaming magazines just for accessing the demo discs. Going to a friend's house and borrowing a CD full of demos for games. Or, going to a retail store to try out a bunch of demos on the display. Not having demos is making me rethink my purchases and is leaving me in a state of uncertainty. It's Schrodinger's game, it's not good or bad until I can try it. Let me put my dirty paws on it so that I don't have a choice but to commit. Buying it or not. In the end, I'm only going to be mad if I buy a bad game that I didn't know was bad. PS: Love your Cold Take series. Keep it up and you've gained a new fan after the last 5 videos were consistently good. Maybe they are just a demo that will make me commit to subscribing? You know... a slice of the whole cake.
The REAL issue with modern demos is this: *They take so much effort!* First: You have to find them. In the PS1 era, you'd buy a magazine with a demo disc and get about 10 demos at once, no idea what you'll play, just a great mix of all sorts. Now you need to find all the games manually. At 6:30 Sebastian even mentions making a spreadsheet -- I don't want homework, I just want to try new games! Second: They take time to install. With demo discs, there's no extra effort, but now you have to visit the store page, click the install button, wait for it to finish, and repeat for however many demos you want. The last Steam NextFest took me a hour just installing demos! The best solution I've seen so far was from Devolver Digital's "Devolverland Expo", which is a convention within game where you wander around and find the rooms for each demo. I remember playing something similar on PC, back in the 90s, on a space station. That's a lot of effort, but it's a great level of immersion and engagement that keeps the experience memorable. But honestly, just the simple concept of installing multiple demos at once would go the job: A few publishers agree to make a demos bundle, basically a modern "demo disc", which you install as a single thing. Now it takes no effort for discovery, no effort for per-game installs, plus you keep the mystery of what you get. If demos ever get a resurgence to their Playstation era glory, that's how it'll happen.
Dragon Quest Builders 2's Jumbo Demo is a demo done right - it allows maybe 10+ hours of playtime, takes you through most of the first story island's plot, and cuts it off just before you battle that island's main boss. I didn't intend on ever buying the full game but the demo hooked me in.
Monster Hunter demos are usually top tier, 3 or 4 missions with ALL the weapons available and fully online functional. I spent weeks running the flagship hunt in the 4 Ultimate demo with complete randoms and it was beautiful, from complete novices to old hands getting used to new tools we were having a blast.
The demo of Nine Sols was a great recent example of this done well. I left after about an hour, having completed it, thinking "yep, I will be buying that when it comes out".
Video game demos need to be avaliable AFTER the game is made, even if its still in the polishing phase demos are meant to be a "is this a game i want to play/buy?", just like you said :D
Funng you mention CTR. Spyro 3 also had a demo for Crash Bash, but here the developers forgot to disable the debug code, so instead of a demo you straight up got a prototype of a full game, where the only thing you were missing was the stuff the developers hadn't finished making yet. (They even had placeholder sprites of Homer and Bart Simpson for a boss icon!)
It is nice to hear about someone who is as excited about the Steam Next Fest as me. Most of the games on my wishlist are titles that I tried and loved the Demo's for during the Next Fest. This last one I pushed myself to try 50 demo's in the week taht it was around. While most of the games were... eh. There were a few projects so unique I would be kicking myself for not having them rattle around in my head every week or so (while I wait for the full release) from how unique and amazing they are.
Dragon Quest 11’s demo on switch was like 10 hours of gameplay, percentage wise, that’s like 2% of my overall hours invested in it. It was the exact thing I needed to tip me over the edge to buy it. It’s an amazing demo!
I have fond memories of a few demos.. when i was a kid I played the sly Cooper 3 demo and loved it so much i went out and bought the full game then went back and played the first one too. Exact same experience with shadows of the colossus on the same disc!; it also had katamari damacacy or however you spell it lmao. Also star wars battlefront 2 but i already had the game at that point. It was a damn good demo disc. I bet i still have it too
Apparently the secret words to get me to start focusing when I’m only half-assedly listening while doing something else are “cozy grappling-hook lovers”.
Freaky/strange games are my favorite! Viewfinder looks sooo good, it reminds me of another game that was on Gamepass awhile back but I can't remember the name.
Game dev here, it all comes down to sales and irrational fear. A ridiculous rule (imo) that game devs follow is that people will only play the demo and not buy the game. Personally I just want to watch people play my games. So I tend to drop demos and prototypes a lot. For example I just dropped a playtest demo for my current project in Halloween.
I don't often play demos, usually because I get sidetracked and then them being timed and removed when the full game is released means I fully miss out. I didn't get much time with the Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty demos because of the relatively short time the first was available and I missed the second demo entirely. I went to play the first demo and I'd forgotten about it being a limited time thing until it told me it was now unavailable. I have Like A Dragon: Ishin on my wishlist, but I've never played a Yakuza game before. The time period that one is set is a favorite of mine though, so I was very curious. Then last week I realized there was a combat demo available. It's not even a real chunk of the game much since it's only meant to showcase the combat. However, playing around with the combat was what I wanted and I thoroughly enjoyed trying out the different styles and such. Enough that I'm sure I'll get the game at some point in the near future when I've cleared a bit of my backlog.
When I was 9 and I didn't have spyro the dragon, I would play a combination of the demos from the Crash 3 disc, and the demo disc that came with crash 3. A strange way to play but all together I had about 4 of the levels from the Artisan home world. I would play those levels over and over and over again. Eventually my cousins lent me their Spyro game and I went wild when I played it. Today it's one of my favourite games of all time. I think the Demos gave me a sense of wanting more that many games don't give nowadays, which sucks. I agree with Sebastian, we need more demos.
I've been playing the SF6 demo almost every day a few hours because it's so good. Just 2 characters available but it let me sate my hunger for the game a little bit before it comes out
There was something magical about the Touhou: Hopeless Masquerade demo. I love the real one and its sequels to be sure, but I spent nights playing that demo just having a blast, and it appropriately hyped me up for the real game in a way I hadn't felt from a demo in years (this was a full decade ago at this point). There were only 3 playable characters, and you couldn't even customize their moveset like in the main game. But it just... hit right. Everything was already set up the way it should be. I could just boot it up and play a few matches against an NPC, stringing the rounds together until they felt indistinguishable from eachother, like each popcorn before your stomach tells you you've had too much. I look back on those nights fondly. There's a flavor in demos that can incredibly hard to capture, even in the real deals.
My favorite demos are the ones that are just the first X hours of the game that let you carry over your save file. Square has been doing this a lot over the past some-odd years and I love it.
Demos disappearing is a big part of the whole discussion on gaming archival - what should and shouldn't be kept? Snapshots of games in infinite development? Should every game be a Minecraft where there's built-in support for going back and playing the old versions - and whole hosts dedicated to serving mods by version that you're playing? It's an nice little curiosity to see the alpha build of Minecraft now - the de facto demo for the game - but aside from breaking dirt blocks it says absolutely nothing about the game as it was at release, let alone now. So do games create new demos every time they update? Or if a demo doesn't fit the game anymore, is it better to ditch it entirely so you're not scaring off people that find the demo to be too basic in ways that you fixed last year? Obviously the simple answer is to let people play the early stuff for free and lock the rest behind a paywall - like Diablo's open betas that stop in Act 1, or FF14 where the original game is free to play, but the expansions need you to buy and subscribe - that way they still get their demos with all the modernized patches, and no one has to cut a special release. But what about the curated experience? Sure, the first few levels are a fine sample of the rest of the game, but if late-game plays differently, don't you want to tease that too in case that's the game they want to play? How do you keep that demo going without demanding new resources for it? No one's got time in a small studio, and big ones have too many penny pinchers up the chain trying to get rich to get that approved. Gaming's evolved, and demos evolved with it. Little snapshots to build hype that disappear when the game comes out - or early access so you can give feedback that'll make it into the final game and watch it evolves. It's hard to say if that's better or worse, but it sure as hell isn't what came before. That's just how change is. I don't know if I'd want to go back, but I know time doesn't work like that, so all I have to ask is if I'm happy with the process as it exists. But that's a rant for another day.
I spent the weekend playing demos just because I couldn't decide what to play next and I knew it would be a short time commitment. Of note, the demo for Nightmare Reaper was fantastic. Eternal Edge+ Prologue was...okay. Got about what I expected from it. Drova - Teaser was REALLY good, I'm just not skilled enough to play it. Also of note, two from Square Enix - DQ11 and FF Stranger of Paradise, let you take your progress to the main game. Demos are great.
Demos used to be all i would play when my brothers and i had been given someone's PS1 demo disc collection. Discworld, Broken Sword, RC Stunt Copter, that shooter game starring a couple Muppet looking fellas, a whole butt-ton of things. Then my younger brother had to be an arsehole and throw them and most of our PS1 games in the bin for no good reason.
It also had a ton of content for a demo… like I was actually surprised. I didn’t even like I but I kept going to see how much more it would allow. You could play at least 2 missions from each world, and maybe more but I think I stopped before I fully found out. Most games would give you 1 or 2 missions… total, and then maybe a boss or something.
I think the thing that makes AAA devs not like making good demos (either avoiding them or creating deceptive ones) is that, as you said, the best demos are ones which filter for their target audience, and the idea of a target audience is anathema to modern AAA sensibilities. Every game must be designed for every player because anything else is leaving money on the table, never mind that that players have contradictory desires and trying to appease all of them just leads to bland garbage that doesn't really appeal to anyone.
As an indie game developer my plan is to release demos for my future games. Not only does it give people something to try before wishlisting a game on steam, but it filters out people who don’t like your game from playing your real game and leaving a bad review for not liking it.
Balan Wonderworld, while terrible, lets you play a surprisingly large amount of content. You can access all of the worlds, with 2-3 missions each. Plenty of time to get to trips with the game’s mechanics and breathe.
I think you nailed it with the line that demos give too much power to the consumer. The last two demos I played were FFVII: Remake, and Outriders. I bought both because I enjoyed the demo. I wish I could try more games to see if I liked them before I had to choose to buy a game. I prefer knowing what I'm getting over the usual marketing BS we get nowadays: teaser trailer, reveal trailer, launch trailer, trade shows, closed betas, etc. and the review cycle being heavily monitored and regulated by the published. You never really know what you're getting until like 2 months after launch and all the bought and paid for reviews have passed. By then you can look at metacritic and get a more objective view. More power to the consumer and I think it would be better for the developers too because they won't get review bombed by people who don't like the game because it's not what they expected. If you had a demo they wouldn't be surprised and mad. It's a win-win.
“Modern demos flood you with too much exposition and tutorialization that you don’t get to experience the game.” You nailed it, they’re terrible. It might as well be a trailer instead because it’s almost a QTE with how limited and scripted it is. Also, I’ll definitely check out those game demos you gave a shout-out too. They look pretty cool.
Dragon Quest Builders 2 Jumbo Demo is one of the best it allows you to play 90%of the first chapter and allows you to carry your save to the full paid game once you buy it. It shows you what the game will offer story, vibe, gameplay, etc.
Quite the coincidence : I remember downloading the Viewfinder demo but didn't have the time to play it. Went to my library just now after seeing it in the video, and it didn't have the option to play, only "Purchase"! Had to uninstall it without even playing it. Shame.
You pointed it out in this video but I think that Extra credit (old extra credit when it was actually good). Pointed out this lose-lose scenario that demo's have for games that mean it only helps 1/4 of the time, the 4 being: A good game with a good demo: when the demo helps A bad game with a good demo: people will quickly see the game on release and be disappointed, potentially causing backlash because the consumer base feel "cheated" instead of just seeing it as a bad game and moving on, while not all, some studio's can learn from their mistakes and do better on their next game, maybe make a great game, but bad PR is bad PR, there's a reason why buisness's would sell their grandmother's to avoid it. A stain that takes a lot more to be cleaned out compared to how much it took to stain the carpet in the first place. A good game with a bad demo: First impressionsa are everything, meaning good games might have their consumer base crippled by a bad impression, at least till the fanbase catches on and shares the word, still not exactly a helpful demo. A bad game with a bad demo: I don't think I need to explain this. It doesn't help the people tend to see the negative more then the positive, so many cases the negativity can damage the reputation of a game before the game even release OR after it releases straight after a positive demo but it unto itself a bad game.
Every steam fest always catches me in the middle of exams season, so I just religiously download all the demos I'm interested in, and I pray that they still work by the time I'm free to play them... Sometimes, the demos stay up after the event, other times, you can just play them from the file itself, but sometimes I have to somberly delete the game, wondering what it would've been...
You nailed most of the reasons why demos arn't popular among devs. As a dev. It feels demos can ethier boost or kill your game. It really depends on the genre. Polish is one of the last things done, and when people play a demo without polish, it kills their opinion of a game, regardless if the core seems solid. A demo can satisfy that persons itch to experience the novelty your game offers, and by the time the game comes out, they don't care for it anymore. They can think they've seen most of what the game has to offer, even if not true. It really depends on genre, games with very unique mechanics that tease at more, or a story left unfinished can allure people, otherwise the demo can simply satisfy them. Alot of work to make a demo, especially because of the polish problem mentioned. So its high risk. At least thats my feel
I'm on a potato PC so "it works, now pay money" is still useful to me. I don't care about shiniest graphics, I care about running at all. I never would have gotten RE4 Remake if the demo hadn't shown me it could run (apparently their remakes of the whole series so far have been surprisingly well optimised for that). I loved Fallen Order, but it took enough fiddling with settings to not crash that I'm not willing to touch Jedi Survivor even with Steam's refund policy. "Cash up front, we might give it back to you if you watch the timer" is not and should not be a replacement for demos.
If a game doesn't give me a demo, or if they pull something like Team17 did and remove the demo when the game releases, I will just download the full game myself before making a purchasing decision. I don't pay for a game unless I've tried it and liked it. I don't buy games before I've played them. I grew up renting them from video stores, getting demo diskettes with PC Gamer, and swapping shareware floppies with friends. Demos are incredibly important. No, watching someone else play a game on youtube or twitch is not the same thing at all, not even close.
I like Demos, and as I played through dozens of them during the Steam Next fest I wondered if demos would benefit even the bad games. Maybe it would save them from a bad review.
Nintendo's doing something interesting with demos these days. They've started to just...give you the opening bits of a game for free as a demo a little before the game comes out, then let you carry over your progress should you buy the full game. I know of at least Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes and Octopath Traveler II that have gotten this treatment, and both give a good amount of content for free. FEW lets players go up to the first major battle in their chosen route, and I believe Octopath grants access to the first chapter for each character? Plenty to give a first impression. Mongoose Rodeo, the developer of the upcoming Crowsworn is also taking a novel approach. They have an obligation through one of their Kickstarter goals to provide a demo to backers, but are concerned with keeping players spoiler-free for the game and don't want to push back the release just to craft some demo-exclusive levels that they'd be happy with. So the demo is going to be a Frakenstein amalgamation of cut content. Gives players a feel for the game, but doesn't reveal any finalized areas.
THE DEMO that could rule them all was Unreal Tournament's Demo. It had few maps, it allowed multiplayer and it ran for years.
Can we take a moment to acknowledge the caliber of writing this guy consistently gives out? Sebastian is cold with the pen 🥶🥶🥶
Edit: Thanks for the likes! Sebastian, hope you're seeing this. You are appreciated ❄️ ❄️ ❄️
Oh wow the Escapist, thanks for the love ❤️
100th like on this and well deserved. He and Yahtzee are propping up Escapist
Writing and narration - both outstanding, not gonna lie I'd buy a game with this guy as the narrator - better have a demo for it though!
Demos these days are the full game, they will finish it later
Fucking truth bruh
...if they feel like it
Well stated, sadly...
Yep the state of modern gaming
True
Damn, Sebastian. Another banger. You crew at The Escapist really are top tier 💙
Thanks, pal
Cold Take might be my favorite Escapist show. Good and well thought-out arguments, exceptionally written and in a way that is both entertaining and intriguing, and presented with voice-over in the absolutely perfect vibe.
There is another reason for major game studios to not do demos. To maintain message control. If they have a mediocre game and they want to turn a profit it makes more sense to have the marketing department ensure that only people who are going to be friendly with thier messaging/reviews have access and even then only to a carefully curated footage.
One of my favorite demos was for Grandia on the PS1.
It was an RPG but they offered two gameplay demos. One was exploring the starter town to get a sense for the story. And the second one was a combat demo a little later in the game.
It got me to buy the game.
The writing and delivery of these cold takes is always so enthralling. I can't help but have a smile on my face the entire listen-through. Listen-through because the truly great imagery of the writing requires no supplementary visuals. On a platform that so often abuses video to prop up mediocre writing or easy jokes, to not require anything beyond a monologue is a delight.
I'm sensing a pattern forming with these videos, where frost leaks his next topic with that opening line said over someone pourin alcohol. Last week you mentioned the Pizza Hut Demo discs, and this week we hear about demos. I'm callin' it, next week will be about a new category of games.
this is one of the best takes on a subject I had forgotten I cared about.
What timing! I just finished a demo for my game this week.
It’s a bit early in the development process to release, but this has really made me think much more about how valuable demos are to potential players.
What is the game? (I can see the title, but what sort of game)
@@Mucha_Hawlucha it’s a 2D side-view Action-Platformer focused on exploration and combat! The special mechanic is that you also control a floating arrow that you can separate from yourself to attack or solve puzzles at range. (I’m in the process of making some videos about the game but it’s hard to balance with dev time 😅)
@@LighthoofDryden so like yondu then.
@@ehhorve857 basically yes! With less whistling
These cold takes are gold content on an aging platform. I never get tired of these.
It really is a shame how demos have been slated hard. I distinctly remember finding some of my favorite games back in the 360 days simply by playing through their demos and having a blast. Dungeon defenders was a notable one. Locked to the first level and only 2 classes with half of their abilities unlocked but it still gave just enough of that taste of the games synergy and mechanics that I bought it flat out as soon as I could. The steam demo fest is probably the thing I look forward to the most nowadays for upcoming games
The Halo: CE demo was a great intro back in the day.
I love demos and any game dev that is brave enough to put out a demo of their game deserves at least a tiny bit of my attention. I try to check demos out. I have bought games after trying their demos. Whenever people are talking about a game they find cool it's awesome to hear: "You can try the demo of this cool game I've been playing"
I loved game demos growing up, they were essential to me having no means of buying games myself and only very very very rarely ever being given any games, and mostly those where whatever was most discounted
Before the times of internet for most people, trying those floppy disk demos in the early 90s that the stores had, was awesome. I remember trying games like Jazz Jackrabbit, Doom, Kings Quest, etc. You'd still pay a few dollars for the demo floppy disks, but a fraction of the cost of the full games. And that was how you found out which games were actually worth the full purchase.
Awesome times from my very early childhood!
Dredge has a demo on Switch still, so people can demo there and then buy on their preferred platform
Great Video! And thanks for the Demo recomendations!
The best demo ever is the one for Ocarina of Time in Super Smash Bros Brawl. It's not only one of the reasons I'm such a huge Zelda fan, but you can also speed run the entire actual game through it.
Always great to have these to watch on my break at work.
I remember when I was still a kid. Buying gaming magazines just for accessing the demo discs. Going to a friend's house and borrowing a CD full of demos for games. Or, going to a retail store to try out a bunch of demos on the display. Not having demos is making me rethink my purchases and is leaving me in a state of uncertainty. It's Schrodinger's game, it's not good or bad until I can try it. Let me put my dirty paws on it so that I don't have a choice but to commit. Buying it or not. In the end, I'm only going to be mad if I buy a bad game that I didn't know was bad.
PS: Love your Cold Take series. Keep it up and you've gained a new fan after the last 5 videos were consistently good. Maybe they are just a demo that will make me commit to subscribing? You know... a slice of the whole cake.
The REAL issue with modern demos is this: *They take so much effort!*
First: You have to find them. In the PS1 era, you'd buy a magazine with a demo disc and get about 10 demos at once, no idea what you'll play, just a great mix of all sorts. Now you need to find all the games manually. At 6:30 Sebastian even mentions making a spreadsheet -- I don't want homework, I just want to try new games!
Second: They take time to install. With demo discs, there's no extra effort, but now you have to visit the store page, click the install button, wait for it to finish, and repeat for however many demos you want. The last Steam NextFest took me a hour just installing demos!
The best solution I've seen so far was from Devolver Digital's "Devolverland Expo", which is a convention within game where you wander around and find the rooms for each demo. I remember playing something similar on PC, back in the 90s, on a space station. That's a lot of effort, but it's a great level of immersion and engagement that keeps the experience memorable.
But honestly, just the simple concept of installing multiple demos at once would go the job: A few publishers agree to make a demos bundle, basically a modern "demo disc", which you install as a single thing. Now it takes no effort for discovery, no effort for per-game installs, plus you keep the mystery of what you get. If demos ever get a resurgence to their Playstation era glory, that's how it'll happen.
Dragon Quest Builders 2's Jumbo Demo is a demo done right - it allows maybe 10+ hours of playtime, takes you through most of the first story island's plot, and cuts it off just before you battle that island's main boss. I didn't intend on ever buying the full game but the demo hooked me in.
Monster Hunter demos are usually top tier, 3 or 4 missions with ALL the weapons available and fully online functional. I spent weeks running the flagship hunt in the 4 Ultimate demo with complete randoms and it was beautiful, from complete novices to old hands getting used to new tools we were having a blast.
The demo of Nine Sols was a great recent example of this done well. I left after about an hour, having completed it, thinking "yep, I will be buying that when it comes out".
Video game demos need to be avaliable AFTER the game is made, even if its still in the polishing phase
demos are meant to be a "is this a game i want to play/buy?", just like you said :D
Funng you mention CTR. Spyro 3 also had a demo for Crash Bash, but here the developers forgot to disable the debug code, so instead of a demo you straight up got a prototype of a full game, where the only thing you were missing was the stuff the developers hadn't finished making yet. (They even had placeholder sprites of Homer and Bart Simpson for a boss icon!)
It is nice to hear about someone who is as excited about the Steam Next Fest as me. Most of the games on my wishlist are titles that I tried and loved the Demo's for during the Next Fest.
This last one I pushed myself to try 50 demo's in the week taht it was around. While most of the games were... eh. There were a few projects so unique I would be kicking myself for not having them rattle around in my head every week or so (while I wait for the full release) from how unique and amazing they are.
Cold Take is my favorite series on here, regardless do I agree with it or not, its always refreshing and good for me to take in
Dragon Quest 11’s demo on switch was like 10 hours of gameplay, percentage wise, that’s like 2% of my overall hours invested in it. It was the exact thing I needed to tip me over the edge to buy it. It’s an amazing demo!
3:41 I HAD THAT DEMO!!!
I'd play Sunny Beach all the damn time but only did Skelos Badlands a couple times.
I have fond memories of a few demos.. when i was a kid I played the sly Cooper 3 demo and loved it so much i went out and bought the full game then went back and played the first one too. Exact same experience with shadows of the colossus on the same disc!; it also had katamari damacacy or however you spell it lmao. Also star wars battlefront 2 but i already had the game at that point. It was a damn good demo disc. I bet i still have it too
Got some great recommendations in this one. Thanks, Frost!
Apparently the secret words to get me to start focusing when I’m only half-assedly listening while doing something else are “cozy grappling-hook lovers”.
Freaky/strange games are my favorite! Viewfinder looks sooo good, it reminds me of another game that was on Gamepass awhile back but I can't remember the name.
This is my first time watching a Cold Take video. I think my IQ bounced up a bit just listening to this smooth amalgamation of words.
Game dev here, it all comes down to sales and irrational fear. A ridiculous rule (imo) that game devs follow is that people will only play the demo and not buy the game.
Personally I just want to watch people play my games. So I tend to drop demos and prototypes a lot. For example I just dropped a playtest demo for my current project in Halloween.
I don't often play demos, usually because I get sidetracked and then them being timed and removed when the full game is released means I fully miss out. I didn't get much time with the Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty demos because of the relatively short time the first was available and I missed the second demo entirely. I went to play the first demo and I'd forgotten about it being a limited time thing until it told me it was now unavailable.
I have Like A Dragon: Ishin on my wishlist, but I've never played a Yakuza game before. The time period that one is set is a favorite of mine though, so I was very curious. Then last week I realized there was a combat demo available. It's not even a real chunk of the game much since it's only meant to showcase the combat. However, playing around with the combat was what I wanted and I thoroughly enjoyed trying out the different styles and such. Enough that I'm sure I'll get the game at some point in the near future when I've cleared a bit of my backlog.
This man would've loved the demo for final fantasy16 and Lies of P
the stanley parable demo is king of all demos, it has no content from the actual game but provides a taste of what's to come
Those old pizza hut demos were the life blood of many weekends for me as a kid man. Cheers and thanks for the great content 🍻🙏
1:00 you missed a great opportunity to say "I am the demo-graphic"
When I was 9 and I didn't have spyro the dragon, I would play a combination of the demos from the Crash 3 disc, and the demo disc that came with crash 3. A strange way to play but all together I had about 4 of the levels from the Artisan home world. I would play those levels over and over and over again. Eventually my cousins lent me their Spyro game and I went wild when I played it. Today it's one of my favourite games of all time. I think the Demos gave me a sense of wanting more that many games don't give nowadays, which sucks. I agree with Sebastian, we need more demos.
I've been playing the SF6 demo almost every day a few hours because it's so good. Just 2 characters available but it let me sate my hunger for the game a little bit before it comes out
There was something magical about the Touhou: Hopeless Masquerade demo. I love the real one and its sequels to be sure, but I spent nights playing that demo just having a blast, and it appropriately hyped me up for the real game in a way I hadn't felt from a demo in years (this was a full decade ago at this point).
There were only 3 playable characters, and you couldn't even customize their moveset like in the main game. But it just... hit right. Everything was already set up the way it should be. I could just boot it up and play a few matches against an NPC, stringing the rounds together until they felt indistinguishable from eachother, like each popcorn before your stomach tells you you've had too much.
I look back on those nights fondly. There's a flavor in demos that can incredibly hard to capture, even in the real deals.
My favorite demos are the ones that are just the first X hours of the game that let you carry over your save file. Square has been doing this a lot over the past some-odd years and I love it.
Demos disappearing is a big part of the whole discussion on gaming archival - what should and shouldn't be kept? Snapshots of games in infinite development? Should every game be a Minecraft where there's built-in support for going back and playing the old versions - and whole hosts dedicated to serving mods by version that you're playing? It's an nice little curiosity to see the alpha build of Minecraft now - the de facto demo for the game - but aside from breaking dirt blocks it says absolutely nothing about the game as it was at release, let alone now.
So do games create new demos every time they update? Or if a demo doesn't fit the game anymore, is it better to ditch it entirely so you're not scaring off people that find the demo to be too basic in ways that you fixed last year? Obviously the simple answer is to let people play the early stuff for free and lock the rest behind a paywall - like Diablo's open betas that stop in Act 1, or FF14 where the original game is free to play, but the expansions need you to buy and subscribe - that way they still get their demos with all the modernized patches, and no one has to cut a special release. But what about the curated experience? Sure, the first few levels are a fine sample of the rest of the game, but if late-game plays differently, don't you want to tease that too in case that's the game they want to play? How do you keep that demo going without demanding new resources for it? No one's got time in a small studio, and big ones have too many penny pinchers up the chain trying to get rich to get that approved.
Gaming's evolved, and demos evolved with it. Little snapshots to build hype that disappear when the game comes out - or early access so you can give feedback that'll make it into the final game and watch it evolves. It's hard to say if that's better or worse, but it sure as hell isn't what came before. That's just how change is. I don't know if I'd want to go back, but I know time doesn't work like that, so all I have to ask is if I'm happy with the process as it exists.
But that's a rant for another day.
I spent the weekend playing demos just because I couldn't decide what to play next and I knew it would be a short time commitment. Of note, the demo for Nightmare Reaper was fantastic. Eternal Edge+ Prologue was...okay. Got about what I expected from it. Drova - Teaser was REALLY good, I'm just not skilled enough to play it. Also of note, two from Square Enix - DQ11 and FF Stranger of Paradise, let you take your progress to the main game. Demos are great.
I played thought MGS4’s demo 500 times.
Demos used to be all i would play when my brothers and i had been given someone's PS1 demo disc collection. Discworld, Broken Sword, RC Stunt Copter, that shooter game starring a couple Muppet looking fellas, a whole butt-ton of things. Then my younger brother had to be an arsehole and throw them and most of our PS1 games in the bin for no good reason.
RE4r demo = cupcake
RE4r= beefcake
The demo for Dredge is still on up on Switch.
Don't forget Balan Wonderworld, a game that got its demo removed because it only served to show how poor the game is.
It also had a ton of content for a demo… like I was actually surprised. I didn’t even like I but I kept going to see how much more it would allow. You could play at least 2 missions from each world, and maybe more but I think I stopped before I fully found out. Most games would give you 1 or 2 missions… total, and then maybe a boss or something.
I think the thing that makes AAA devs not like making good demos (either avoiding them or creating deceptive ones) is that, as you said, the best demos are ones which filter for their target audience, and the idea of a target audience is anathema to modern AAA sensibilities. Every game must be designed for every player because anything else is leaving money on the table, never mind that that players have contradictory desires and trying to appease all of them just leads to bland garbage that doesn't really appeal to anyone.
As an indie game developer my plan is to release demos for my future games. Not only does it give people something to try before wishlisting a game on steam, but it filters out people who don’t like your game from playing your real game and leaving a bad review for not liking it.
I recently played through a demo for 1000Xresist and was totally blown away. Totally recommended it.
Lots of really cool games I've never heard of shown off here. Thanks for that!
1. I now want cake.
2. Where is that cake.
3. Who voices this video, he can read me a bedtime story anyday
Balan Wonderworld, while terrible, lets you play a surprisingly large amount of content. You can access all of the worlds, with 2-3 missions each. Plenty of time to get to trips with the game’s mechanics and breathe.
Great vid, Frost! (Also, I can't believe they removed the Viewfinder demo from Steam already! *womp womp*)
It’s true though, bc i missed the window on dredge i’m probably just not gonna buy it now out of spite/unwillingness to risk it not being my thing
Lies of P has a good demo. You can tell the devs are confident in their product
I have to say that VR seems to have gotten the idea that the best way to keep their Like to Dislike ratio good is to have free Demos
One can still try the Resident Evil 2 "R.P.D. Demo", the Doom (2016) Demo or the demo for The Evil Within 1 and 2! I love it!
I think you nailed it with the line that demos give too much power to the consumer. The last two demos I played were FFVII: Remake, and Outriders. I bought both because I enjoyed the demo. I wish I could try more games to see if I liked them before I had to choose to buy a game.
I prefer knowing what I'm getting over the usual marketing BS we get nowadays: teaser trailer, reveal trailer, launch trailer, trade shows, closed betas, etc. and the review cycle being heavily monitored and regulated by the published. You never really know what you're getting until like 2 months after launch and all the bought and paid for reviews have passed. By then you can look at metacritic and get a more objective view.
More power to the consumer and I think it would be better for the developers too because they won't get review bombed by people who don't like the game because it's not what they expected. If you had a demo they wouldn't be surprised and mad. It's a win-win.
Know what, I feel compelled to try those demos you showed
"...What makes ME a good DEMOMAN?!!"
Another great episode
You are crushing it sebas 🎉❤
I remember vividly the demo for Jedi outcast. It was the best level that was never in the game lol
I used to play the early Amiga Mag demo disks more than the actual games, even if it was just one level / track etc
“Modern demos flood you with too much exposition and tutorialization that you don’t get to experience the game.”
You nailed it, they’re terrible. It might as well be a trailer instead because it’s almost a QTE with how limited and scripted it is. Also, I’ll definitely check out those game demos you gave a shout-out too. They look pretty cool.
Best demo for a game ever created was the one for Halo Combat Evolved.
It even came with multiplayer.
No idea why, but I imagined you as sentient black silhouette of a early 1900s detective.
Dragon Quest Builders 2 Jumbo Demo is one of the best it allows you to play 90%of the first chapter and allows you to carry your save to the full paid game once you buy it. It shows you what the game will offer story, vibe, gameplay, etc.
Played SF6 demo, loved it -- 2hrs in demo.
Purchased -- 12hours in.
This takes me back to the halcyon days of shareware
I'm eagerly awaiting Steam World Build because I enjoyed the demo.
I remember the spyro demo! Good times...
IDK who this guy is but the noir thing, I dig it.
Those Crash and Spyro demos are legendary
Who remembers the Pizza Hut Playstation demo disc? Those were top notch.
I loved OPM magazine because it came with demo discs
couldn't have said it better myself!
Remember I played the Mass effect 2 Demo so many times I knew the Jack recruitment mission by hand
Quite the coincidence : I remember downloading the Viewfinder demo but didn't have the time to play it. Went to my library just now after seeing it in the video, and it didn't have the option to play, only "Purchase"! Had to uninstall it without even playing it. Shame.
Wonderful video
love these!!
You pointed it out in this video but I think that Extra credit (old extra credit when it was actually good). Pointed out this lose-lose scenario that demo's have for games that mean it only helps 1/4 of the time, the 4 being:
A good game with a good demo: when the demo helps
A bad game with a good demo: people will quickly see the game on release and be disappointed, potentially causing backlash because the consumer base feel "cheated" instead of just seeing it as a bad game and moving on, while not all, some studio's can learn from their mistakes and do better on their next game, maybe make a great game, but bad PR is bad PR, there's a reason why buisness's would sell their grandmother's to avoid it. A stain that takes a lot more to be cleaned out compared to how much it took to stain the carpet in the first place.
A good game with a bad demo: First impressionsa are everything, meaning good games might have their consumer base crippled by a bad impression, at least till the fanbase catches on and shares the word, still not exactly a helpful demo.
A bad game with a bad demo: I don't think I need to explain this.
It doesn't help the people tend to see the negative more then the positive, so many cases the negativity can damage the reputation of a game before the game even release OR after it releases straight after a positive demo but it unto itself a bad game.
Every steam fest always catches me in the middle of exams season, so I just religiously download all the demos I'm interested in, and I pray that they still work by the time I'm free to play them...
Sometimes, the demos stay up after the event, other times, you can just play them from the file itself, but sometimes I have to somberly delete the game, wondering what it would've been...
You nailed most of the reasons why demos arn't popular among devs.
As a dev. It feels demos can ethier boost or kill your game. It really depends on the genre.
Polish is one of the last things done, and when people play a demo without polish, it kills their opinion of a game, regardless if the core seems solid.
A demo can satisfy that persons itch to experience the novelty your game offers, and by the time the game comes out, they don't care for it anymore.
They can think they've seen most of what the game has to offer, even if not true.
It really depends on genre, games with very unique mechanics that tease at more, or a story left unfinished can allure people, otherwise the demo can simply satisfy them.
Alot of work to make a demo, especially because of the polish problem mentioned. So its high risk. At least thats my feel
I miss free demo cds at small software stores
or magazine subs
Now I just want some cake or cupcakes. Thanks for that.
I'm on a potato PC so "it works, now pay money" is still useful to me. I don't care about shiniest graphics, I care about running at all. I never would have gotten RE4 Remake if the demo hadn't shown me it could run (apparently their remakes of the whole series so far have been surprisingly well optimised for that). I loved Fallen Order, but it took enough fiddling with settings to not crash that I'm not willing to touch Jedi Survivor even with Steam's refund policy. "Cash up front, we might give it back to you if you watch the timer" is not and should not be a replacement for demos.
If a game doesn't give me a demo, or if they pull something like Team17 did and remove the demo when the game releases, I will just download the full game myself before making a purchasing decision. I don't pay for a game unless I've tried it and liked it. I don't buy games before I've played them. I grew up renting them from video stores, getting demo diskettes with PC Gamer, and swapping shareware floppies with friends. Demos are incredibly important. No, watching someone else play a game on youtube or twitch is not the same thing at all, not even close.
Remember when apps used to have paid and lite versions that were basically demos for mobile devices? Those were the days.
Great video man.
I like Demos, and as I played through dozens of them during the Steam Next fest I wondered if demos would benefit even the bad games. Maybe it would save them from a bad review.
This game looks superb
Oh and interesting rhetoric
Are we not going to talk about the 10+ hour long demo of Dragonquest XI?
Nintendo's doing something interesting with demos these days. They've started to just...give you the opening bits of a game for free as a demo a little before the game comes out, then let you carry over your progress should you buy the full game. I know of at least Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes and Octopath Traveler II that have gotten this treatment, and both give a good amount of content for free. FEW lets players go up to the first major battle in their chosen route, and I believe Octopath grants access to the first chapter for each character? Plenty to give a first impression. Mongoose Rodeo, the developer of the upcoming Crowsworn is also taking a novel approach. They have an obligation through one of their Kickstarter goals to provide a demo to backers, but are concerned with keeping players spoiler-free for the game and don't want to push back the release just to craft some demo-exclusive levels that they'd be happy with. So the demo is going to be a Frakenstein amalgamation of cut content. Gives players a feel for the game, but doesn't reveal any finalized areas.