I still love how Cold Take has a narrator of a grizzled, film noir detective, yet has a far more positive outlook on things than our favorite fast talking guy named after a dice game
Frost is a commy and they are historicaly well educated and smart. History will tell you that no1 conqured Russia because of their winter but the fact is that they are smarter and very measured in their decissions. Poetry ? Not for me, it is well written but I love FROST.
theotherfrost is word genius and before he joined the escapist helped many a new players find huge success in smite by making competitive topics interesting with his word play
Love this style of video :) Someone once asked the developers of valheim what their roadmap was, what are people supposed to do once they beat all the bosses? Their answer "Play another game" We need more of that.
No, I think he was talking about the live-service games demanding all your time, talked in this video. But then this caught this fella and now he invested all his time into the videos.
This jumped to the top of my lists after his deep dive on the MS leak. This guys' also punching hard with insights and opinions that go far beyond videogames into society, morality, psychology... Cold Take is fire
Another lovely smooth Cold Take. A long time ago I saw Raph Koster (the Ultima Online developer) hanging out on Internet forums saying, "There's no such thing as an everlasting gobstopper." While it's possible he may have changed his mind over the intervening few decades, all they can really do is dip the old gobstopper in some new content and hope it suits the palate of enough of their players. It can even backfire, like it did for World of Warcraft. But maybe it's not a terrible idea. As a player, how cool would it be to have an everlasting gobstopper?
No, it is not cool. I want my games to end. I want to move on to the next thing, otherwise it gets stale and tedious. I can't keep having new experiences if everything becomes like everything else.
@@Gigaheart Ah, but the everlasting gobstopper never gets stale or tedious, it's always a new experience, that's the point of the analogy. Games As Service models see it as a stable meal ticket. But I could see why you'd be intimidated by something that ties you down so effectively.
I feel like that kind of thing should be left to communities through modding, hopefully aided by the devs including support for it. Having a giant group of different people who are passionate about a game create content is more likely to generate more varied and interesting scenarios than the original dev team could, at least in the long run (to account for people getting used to the tools and whatnot). That said, this is really only viable with old or indie titles, as the density of detail in a AAA release ensures that anything without that level of work will feel off, which of course is a massive obstacle for a handful of people making something on their free time. Rant over.
@blahthebiste I have a confession. I have never bought nor played Skyrim. 🫥🤫 So... do we cancel each other out? I'd be cool with him releasing an actual sequel with less bugs, glitches, and general brokenness. But I guess that's work, huh...? Sighhh 😔
5:54 'Triple A studios are selling me IOUs...' is one of the best phrases I've heard in a long time. So glad I randomly decided to give Cold Take a chance. So good! :)
Totally and absolutely agree with this so much!!! I realized last year how much free to play games demanded from me and my time and how little they gave me in return (only chores to do in their sandbox) I switched gears and focused on games that respect more my time and actually want to entertain me.
A game's ability to be modded when it's well past its prime, is what makes the game immortal. Teamfortress 2 is a great example, as despite its lack of relatively new content, it's still alive today because the community are still making and doing things for it: both officially and unofficially.
Never chase clout. At best, you grab a fleeting taste of it only to have it fade away as fast as you got it. At worst, you work yourself into an early grave and never even see it. Do what you love, make what you want to play, and people will like what you do. Not everyone, but enough. And enough is always enough. Greed destroys everything.
Great video, again. My mind immediately jumps to Team Fortress 2 when I think of 'immortal game'. TF2 is over 15 years old, hasn't been updated in 5 years and has been under active botting attack for 2 years, but still gets into the top 10 most played games on Steam every single day and has an immense internet culture that's still giving. Many people have analysed why; the external media, the pop culture impact, the community created content, the ability to host your own servers; but at heart of it I think Valve just made a damn good game and then made it an even better game by experimenting on it and adding new features, a lot of which have influenced later games in the same market (for better or worse). And I can't see it dying anytime soon.
nintendo supposedly going "you want to play the old games, get the old consoles" falls miserably flat when you remember that they shut down the Nintendo DS store, so you literally can't buy any of the nintendo DS games anymore. Nor do they sell any N64's anymore, nor do they sell any N64 games that you could buy. All the old games are now part of a subscription service, where some games are "more equal than others", so some games are only available for purchase for a very short time, etc. etc. They as a company provide very little to the gaming industry in modern times, mostly they'r just a detractor, like all the other large companies that have stuck their fingers into the interactive entertainmnet pie.
Is Age of Empires 2 immortal, then? Accidentally so strong it kills off its own sequels? Really good vid, raises a lot of good questions, mainly: are the only good immortal games the ones that didn't set out to be immortal?
it"s unfortunate they departed from so many of the fundamentals in AoE3, it"s a pretty game, but too limited in narrative scope, zoom and exploitable mechanics. would have preferred a sucessful enough 3 to keep the original timeline going for 4 and 5, instead of 4 remaking the era of 2
Beautifully crafted and expertly delivered man. Thanks for saying all this 'cause more people need to hear it. Sometimes a game just needs to be over. Cheers man! 🍻
I seriously don't think there's a better game journalist channel than the escapist. The Cold take series along with Yahtzee's work remains unmatched as far as I've seen.
You're amazing. I enjoy every video. To have the audio take center stage so hard i can put my phone down and enjoy the video. I could, but the footage that goes with it is equally enticing. Great job and thank you.
Runescape is FAR more than 14yrs old. It's nearing 25yrs at this point. (Released Jan 2001) My favorite "jank af" online game. You make a good point in another comment thread about perpetual play. I have a buddy with 8,500ish hours in Dawn of War Soulstorm. I love the game, the IP, the RTS genre, all of it. But after the 3rd day of solitaire, I need more than the bouncing cards filling the screen to make me hit that New Game button again...
God damn this series is phenomenal. I would really love to hear a cold take regarding game preservation, especially in the face of Nintendo just shutting down the 3DS and Wii stores. Some see it as bygone eras and others, like the Completionist, spent thousands to buy the entire library. What the cold take there, Sebastian?
Exactly summarizes my lack of interest in live-service games. I don’t want to play one game forever, and the games that tout that capability, usually have little content that’s stretched out for miles. The few times I have played games over an extended period… I eventually stopped anyway. At some point, it gets boring and you need a break to miss it again and want to return.
I find myself looking for short we’ll made experiences rather over anything else because of this. Halo Infinite was one of the only live service games I started playing and when they updated things so slowly it felt like what they promised was never coming. That killed them game for me a bit
Reminds me of those shows people will recommend that take 100’s of episodes to get good. …come to think of it, imagine if streaming companies talked about shows the way game companies talked about live service games… “yeah, season 1 was crap but we hope to have the editing somewhat comprehensible by season 2, and the writing for season 3 might even sound like something an actual human would say!”
I feel like games nowadays are given artificial longevity by getting constant updates, instead of trying to make something that's just really good on release and can be played over and over going forward. Look at how many people still play CS 1.6, SC Brood War, Super Smash Melee, etc
I'm honestly just glad that "live-service game" has become a negative term in the gaming community. I don't want to grind out fetching 100 bear asses to get a 0.95% improvement on one of my character's skills. Give me games like The Witcher 3, where the devs said "Here you go, it costs $60. You want a little more? Here's a bit of DLC. If you want more than that, you can replay it while you wait for your next game."
Outer Wilds. Maybe not my favorite game of all time but one I can’t stop thinking about and recommending. 20 hours for the base game. 15-20 for the expansion. And that’s it. Absolutely no replayability. (Except for watching blind play throughs) A person only needs a handful of forever games to keep them occupied, but only singular experiences can change your life
My personal opinion, if ya want to make a game that last forever, just make a good (or really bad) game that people will keep talking about. Doesn't have to be alive, just has to be memorable.
I definitely research the DLC situation before playing a game, but it's not because DLC on the way means I should play it. Almost the opposite: DLC on the way means I'll just play something else in the meantime and keep waiting for the DLC to be over with. I don't like playing only part of a game, and I also don't like jumping back into the deep end of a game after forgetting how to play it over a couple months to a year or more away from it. So the completion of all foreseeable DLC is the one and only sign it's safe to finally play a game the way I like - start to finish and done, then onto the next game. To me, the completion of all add-on content and development isn't a bad thing that means a game is dead, it's a good thing that means the game is finally complete. Or at least as completed as it's ever going to be.
I feel like one of the best modern games to keep on trucking in a way that is super respectful of the player base is Deep Rock Galactic. Still adding content but without any crazy monetization. Awesome developers!
Correction. Overwatch did not launch with esports on day one. Overwatch went on sale in May 2016, and the first Overwatch League season began in January 2018. That substantial delay was probably a real drag on OWL popularity, as the game itself had started to recede from mainstream awareness by then.
Hot Take: I think there's a lot of positive things about the F2P model that some of these largest games have adopted. I can play with friends regardless of whether they can afford a new game or not right now. I can choose how much to spend (even though, yea.. the games aren't shy about begging you to do so). F2P creates a somewhat shady play environment, but one that allows players of all economic backgrounds to play together on an even field. The game is supported by those who have money to burn, but entertains the rich and poor in equal measures.
To follow your thought, I think 'Among Us' was kind of great in allowing people from varying hardware to play together, being relatively inexpensive and not graphically demanding. (Though whether you had good wifi is another question 😬😬)
Interesting thought, though for the most part I can't agree - F2P COULD do that, but far to many of them are 'give us your money or be forever stuck being uncompetitive and/or at the low level'. Technically free to play, but only if you are happy to lose alot more often and spend forever stuck in the low tiers - its not actually a good gaming experience at all without paying in MORE than the one time purchase AAA pricetag every few months, and the ones that are not trying to rip your wallet out to actually play the game are usually such shallow gaming experiences they aren't really worth 'buying' anyway.
There are examples of forever games that allow you to play previous versions of it. Stellaris is a great example. Stellaris a few years back is not at all what Stellaris is like nowadays. But you can always go back to previous editions of the game to play it the way it was.
I agree so strongly about the "wannabe immortal" games with no identity. There are far too many people who just "want to make games" and hopefully get rich, without actually having any interesting ideas. Sometimes they View it solely as a business venture and focus on copying the proven means of sucking money out of customers But there are also a not inconsequential quantity of Young Developers. People in their teens discovering coding for the first time, pick up an engine and quickly crank out a clone of something they know, without significant experience in design This latter case might be a good thing in the long run. Such games are bound to fail and prove a lesson to encourage honing the craft
I do miss the days when I got a new (at least to me) game and just play it without having to wait for installing, updating, and some saying buy stuff for your game.
As we are talking about the immortals, the one who comes to my mind is not the minecraft, the dwarf fortress, but of a similiar kind. Also a story generator STELLARIS is my forever game. Is it immortal? No, very much alive and ever changing. It has at least 7 times renewed itself. Every Patch is a new game, new ways, new stories and new mechanics. It is young but it may just one day be the game that was many. For every Patch was it's own game.
I see TF2 as the progenitor of many of the trends of current era of entertainment. It is a zombie game, where Valve basically allows the players to do what they please with it, even releasing a scripting kit to allow better custom maps. It is filled with bots, scams, and degenerate art work. It is filled with random friendly moments, fun role playing, and quirky bugs which allows for all sorts of explorations and new methods of playing. It maintains a solid player base, with folks coming and going, with most putting in several hundred hours worth over the two decades it has been out. It has hats and crates for that gambling itch, plus crafting as an attempt to grab items you want. Idle servers for folks to place multiple bots, to collect items for said crafting, which causes the market value for most items to be less than a dollar with some being over a hundred dollars. Folks want to recreate TF2 without the gameplay loop or brand recognition of Valve. They study and theorize what makes TF2, TF2, but it is the community which keeps it running. Shoot, the closest community I can think of is Fat Shark's. However, they were bought out by Tencent, so must do what Tencent tells them to do, hence the crappy mechanics around an excellent gameplay loop. The others, have ruined their reputation, through game actions, and outside game actions. Blizzard of the early 2000's is dead and gone. Bethesda is a game company which lost the spark from Troika games. EA is a graveyard of many companies. Nintendo created a cult, so the quality of their games continues to decrease. (Which is better fan boys: Gensin Impact, or Breath of the Wild?)
You know what's immortal ? Undead creatures, that are generally considered soulless. Makes sense. If you want a game to last forever by chasing trends, it probably doesn't have much of an identity to begin with, or at least it will lose it along the way.
Would Frost consider rogue-likes and rogue-lites to be "immortal games"? Binding of Isaac, Hades or most other rogue-adjacents don't sting you for dosh with battle passes or microtransactions, but they encourage a sort of perpetual play. Maybe I'm biased because I lump rogue-adjacent games in with the games described here; games that are meant to be played forever that I just can't get into.
I love rogues, but the only ones I would potentially consider immortal is The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth and Realm of the Mad God. Actively developed. Solid player base. Maintaing some form of relevance. Perpetual play does help longevity but not all perpetual play is timeless. Solitaire, for example, could be played thousands of times before you run into the same draw of cards, but it all starts to feel the same after about 3 games. The roguelike genre also keeps making more advancements in design that make it harder to go back to the older ones. Not many people are still playing Rogue (1980) even though it's readily available.
I would say "no," they wouldn't count as "immortal games" in the context of the video. But perhaps, this might be something those immortal games aspire to be, in a sense. Why I say this is the Rogue-likes/lites are generally a "pay once for a given amount of amusement" with the understanding that eventually you'll move on, and that's fine. The "run-based" nature of the gameplay just makes it more digestible and in theory, easier to return to. Something that serves to occupy you for an hour or two at a time and is easy to pick up and put down. And a good Rogue needs a strong core gameplay loop, because that's what is making you return. The "immortal" games, based on the video, are more about forming a habit and hooking you into revisiting with reward loops and trying to push you into the microtransactions to make the publisher more money. But because they're often seeking all the money they can get, they seek to be as broadly appealing as possible, which often does not lead to a particularly strong gameplay loop. Not that they can't be enjoyed, but more that that they're not particularly deep, and lean on the multiplayer element to cover that up. Rogues hook you like the good kind of video game, and are there for you whenever you *want* to go back to them. A lot of the "Immortal Games" seek to hook you like a fish and reel you in without you realizing it. I understand what you're getting at in terms of the same kind of cyclical gameplay, but I'd look to the context outside the game as well. You could be hooked on Binding of Isaac in the same way you are with say, Doom, Final Fantasy, Mario, or whatever. They're all games you can revisit whenever, and they'll patiently wait for you to come back. To put it simply, you pay like 20 bucks for Dead Cells which could keep you entertained for dozens (maybe hundreds, if you're into it) of hours, or you pay 20 bucks for a *Skin* in Overwatch. I think that's where you can more staunchly draw the line for a game that is trying to be "Immortal."
Don’t those games have a campaign with an end? As in, you _could_ play endlessly if you wanted but there is a stopping point? If so (haven’t played them) then I’d say no. They certainly have that “immensely replayable” factor, but it isn’t like Fortnite where there is no end goal because there’s no campaign.
I think there's been a few "Immortal" games, and they're usually the ones that were'nt trying to be immortal. as much as the likes of Overwatch and Fortnite dominate everyones minds, the moment they stop recieving regular updates, they'll quickly fade to obscurity, like the rest of their genres crowded brethren. but games Like Minecraft, Terraria, TF2, and Portal. Games that could never see another update again, and would be happily enjoyed for another decade. then you have truly well made games, or games with amazing stories, Bioshock, Fallout New Vegas, etc. that you remember because of the stories they tell. the games that profoundly alter your view of reality, Indie games seem to dominate this one. Games like Outer Wilds, that changed my perspective on life, while not immortal, leave a lasting impact. none of these game tried to be immortal, and became such anyway
I really hate "bigger is better" approach. Listen, I don't care for those 134356 fetch quests and 14677 collectibles you are trying to offer me, give me a game I will enjoy.
As soon as i realized we were going to be talking about changing trends i vote we should immediately change what "immortal" means to "zombification". Yeah simpsons is an immortal TV show and i dont think anyone really considers that anything more than neutral to a horrifying implication of what the simpsons characters go through on a yearly basis.
My shame is that I'm a sucker for Counter Strike. Although I mostly play shorter story-driven single player games, I've played CS for literal decades now in various forms. Although I don't indulge in the skin-economy, I fire up CSGO at least once a week for some headshots. I even dabble in the battle royale mode...
Not gonna lie it took me way too long to realize that frost was doing the cold take series. Not that it didn't know the voice but I missed the word play.
I still love how Cold Take has a narrator of a grizzled, film noir detective, yet has a far more positive outlook on things than our favorite fast talking guy named after a dice game
Craps?
@@rasmusolesen5307 no, obviously Ludo, he's a classic Escapist journalist.
We dare not speak the name of the Archfedora.
I do enjoy both, in separate ways. I think having a ying and a yang helps lead us to a nice, central viewpoint
Eh, for all his performative cynicism, the one who writes without demarcators isn't actually all that negative.
Astonishing - it feels more like poetry than a video essay. I don’t get arguments from Frost, I get vibes.
Incredibly sleazy vibes, this guys voice makes my skin crawl
Frost is a commy and they are historicaly well educated and smart. History will tell you that no1 conqured Russia because of their winter but the fact is that they are smarter and very measured in their decissions. Poetry ? Not for me, it is well written but I love FROST.
@@RejectAllCookies13 someone’s off his meds
@@anaccount1005 quite the opposite my friend , I am on my meds and they keep me from lashing out at idiotst like you.
@@RejectAllCookies13 -🤓
"ship of Theseus themselves" Damn son that's some good writing. I'm sure Yahtzee's proud.
theotherfrost is word genius and before he joined the escapist helped many a new players find huge success in smite by making competitive topics interesting with his word play
Sebastian my dude, you really found a niche with these poetic commentaries you pull off so well! Keep it up man. ✊️
Love this style of video :)
Someone once asked the developers of valheim what their roadmap was, what are people supposed to do once they beat all the bosses? Their answer "Play another game"
We need more of that.
It's remarkable how much more interesting the typical game industry rant is when done by the right voice.
The irony of this being the first Cold Take I watch, and having it hook me and my time in.
where is the irony here
@@johnsnow5125 i assume because hot takes usually get more attention and since this is cold take yada yada
No, I think he was talking about the live-service games demanding all your time, talked in this video. But then this caught this fella and now he invested all his time into the videos.
@@DanielFerreira-ez8qd This guy gets it
This is fast becoming one of my favourite series
This jumped to the top of my lists after his deep dive on the MS leak. This guys' also punching hard with insights and opinions that go far beyond videogames into society, morality, psychology... Cold Take is fire
Another lovely smooth Cold Take. A long time ago I saw Raph Koster (the Ultima Online developer) hanging out on Internet forums saying, "There's no such thing as an everlasting gobstopper." While it's possible he may have changed his mind over the intervening few decades, all they can really do is dip the old gobstopper in some new content and hope it suits the palate of enough of their players. It can even backfire, like it did for World of Warcraft. But maybe it's not a terrible idea. As a player, how cool would it be to have an everlasting gobstopper?
No, it is not cool. I want my games to end. I want to move on to the next thing, otherwise it gets stale and tedious. I can't keep having new experiences if everything becomes like everything else.
@@Gigaheart Ah, but the everlasting gobstopper never gets stale or tedious, it's always a new experience, that's the point of the analogy. Games As Service models see it as a stable meal ticket. But I could see why you'd be intimidated by something that ties you down so effectively.
I feel like that kind of thing should be left to communities through modding, hopefully aided by the devs including support for it. Having a giant group of different people who are passionate about a game create content is more likely to generate more varied and interesting scenarios than the original dev team could, at least in the long run (to account for people getting used to the tools and whatnot).
That said, this is really only viable with old or indie titles, as the density of detail in a AAA release ensures that anything without that level of work will feel off, which of course is a massive obstacle for a handful of people making something on their free time.
Rant over.
I feel like another Terraria run... oh that's new. How nice!
I don't know why, but i just love the hell out of this statement.
3:34 "...and Todd Howard's got some weird cloning obsession going on with Skyrim. Let go, Todd. Just let go."
Can we send Todd this video en mass? 🤣🤣🤣
He'll stop releasing Skyrim when we stop buying it.
...Not gonna happen.
@@blahthebiste7924 Why stop something that just works. It just works.
@blahthebiste I have a confession. I have never bought nor played Skyrim. 🫥🤫 So... do we cancel each other out? I'd be cool with him releasing an actual sequel with less bugs, glitches, and general brokenness. But I guess that's work, huh...? Sighhh 😔
Todd did not learn the lesson of the Sierra Madre
Just like Rockstar with GTA V: we'll stop reselling it if y'all stop buying the god damn shark cards. 😅
5:54 'Triple A studios are selling me IOUs...' is one of the best phrases I've heard in a long time. So glad I randomly decided to give Cold Take a chance. So good! :)
Totally and absolutely agree with this so much!!! I realized last year how much free to play games demanded from me and my time and how little they gave me in return (only chores to do in their sandbox) I switched gears and focused on games that respect more my time and actually want to entertain me.
Great stuff, Frost! I love these.
8:13 - The last sentence was so well written too!
Quite poetic
Your Cold Takes are a great balance to the ZP dominance the Escapist is known for.
this is becoming one of my favourite series on the channel, hope it gets more views
A game's ability to be modded when it's well past its prime, is what makes the game immortal.
Teamfortress 2 is a great example, as despite its lack of relatively new content, it's still alive today because the community are still making and doing things for it: both officially and unofficially.
The gaming commentary series I didn't know I needed.
Never chase clout. At best, you grab a fleeting taste of it only to have it fade away as fast as you got it. At worst, you work yourself into an early grave and never even see it. Do what you love, make what you want to play, and people will like what you do. Not everyone, but enough. And enough is always enough. Greed destroys everything.
To be fair, Epic Games chasing the clout of Battle Royale's is what gave them Fortnite
Great video, again. My mind immediately jumps to Team Fortress 2 when I think of 'immortal game'. TF2 is over 15 years old, hasn't been updated in 5 years and has been under active botting attack for 2 years, but still gets into the top 10 most played games on Steam every single day and has an immense internet culture that's still giving. Many people have analysed why; the external media, the pop culture impact, the community created content, the ability to host your own servers; but at heart of it I think Valve just made a damn good game and then made it an even better game by experimenting on it and adding new features, a lot of which have influenced later games in the same market (for better or worse). And I can't see it dying anytime soon.
nintendo supposedly going "you want to play the old games, get the old consoles" falls miserably flat when you remember that they shut down the Nintendo DS store, so you literally can't buy any of the nintendo DS games anymore. Nor do they sell any N64's anymore, nor do they sell any N64 games that you could buy. All the old games are now part of a subscription service, where some games are "more equal than others", so some games are only available for purchase for a very short time, etc. etc.
They as a company provide very little to the gaming industry in modern times, mostly they'r just a detractor, like all the other large companies that have stuck their fingers into the interactive entertainmnet pie.
Is Age of Empires 2 immortal, then? Accidentally so strong it kills off its own sequels? Really good vid, raises a lot of good questions, mainly: are the only good immortal games the ones that didn't set out to be immortal?
Usually, yeah. Sometimes they are intentional, but often it's a side effect of a really solid foundation mixed with active devs
it"s unfortunate they departed from so many of the fundamentals in AoE3, it"s a pretty game, but too limited in narrative scope, zoom and exploitable mechanics.
would have preferred a sucessful enough 3 to keep the original timeline going for 4 and 5, instead of 4 remaking the era of 2
New favorite series!!! Will drop whatever I'm doing to check out the video after seeing the notification
Beautifully crafted and expertly delivered man. Thanks for saying all this 'cause more people need to hear it. Sometimes a game just needs to be over. Cheers man! 🍻
I feel strange repeating myself but I'm absolutely enthralled by your sparkling writing. It's just that good. Wow.
I was following you during the smite days and damn, glad you've expanded into this.
The way you do this frost it feels like I am at a blue club listening to you do a stint on stage. Nice.
I seriously don't think there's a better game journalist channel than the escapist. The Cold take series along with Yahtzee's work remains unmatched as far as I've seen.
You're amazing. I enjoy every video. To have the audio take center stage so hard i can put my phone down and enjoy the video. I could, but the footage that goes with it is equally enticing. Great job and thank you.
Cold take keeping me warmer than a hot cup of coco on Christmas morning.
Cold take is the best new content I've stumbled across in years. Keep up the amazing work!
That dad joke ending got an impressed snort out of me. Well done.
Just needed something about the Open Gaming License to point out that They actually are trying to come after our dice.
What a great little series this is turning out to be.
This is my favorite new series. Great topics, fantastic presentation!
Another amazing video. I could listen to your voice reading the phone book and love it.
Runescape is FAR more than 14yrs old. It's nearing 25yrs at this point. (Released Jan 2001) My favorite "jank af" online game.
You make a good point in another comment thread about perpetual play. I have a buddy with 8,500ish hours in Dawn of War Soulstorm. I love the game, the IP, the RTS genre, all of it. But after the 3rd day of solitaire, I need more than the bouncing cards filling the screen to make me hit that New Game button again...
I was playing Runescape back in '06 and it wasn't new then. 14?! I thought I travelled back in time for a second.
I've bought games years ago that I still haven't played because they're still getting updated. I like my games to end.
God damn this series is phenomenal.
I would really love to hear a cold take regarding game preservation, especially in the face of Nintendo just shutting down the 3DS and Wii stores. Some see it as bygone eras and others, like the Completionist, spent thousands to buy the entire library.
What the cold take there, Sebastian?
I suddenly have a need to watch Over the Garden Wall
Haven't seen your stuff before. Fantastic writing.
My first cold take and I love the Writing on display here
What a nicely structured ramble. Big fan!
Amazing video! It's inspiring to see how video games are striving to become immortal. Keep up the great work!
"Name your price and be done with it" Amen, Brother!
Exactly summarizes my lack of interest in live-service games. I don’t want to play one game forever, and the games that tout that capability, usually have little content that’s stretched out for miles. The few times I have played games over an extended period… I eventually stopped anyway. At some point, it gets boring and you need a break to miss it again and want to return.
I agree. If i play a certain game forever, i'll eventually look for that new experience.
I've become so much more enamored with bite size games. 4-6 hours is a great length for me.
I am in Love with these videos
And yet again I loved it. Thank you!
"...and finish off with an E" just as The Escapist logo appears.
I find myself looking for short we’ll made experiences rather over anything else because of this. Halo Infinite was one of the only live service games I started playing and when they updated things so slowly it felt like what they promised was never coming. That killed them game for me a bit
I can’t wait to hear you talk about predecessor
“Don’t worry, it’ll be good in 2 years”
Reminds me of those shows people will recommend that take 100’s of episodes to get good.
…come to think of it, imagine if streaming companies talked about shows the way game companies talked about live service games… “yeah, season 1 was crap but we hope to have the editing somewhat comprehensible by season 2, and the writing for season 3 might even sound like something an actual human would say!”
these cold takes are like drinking a nice whisky at your local quiet bar and I am now a regular
I feel like games nowadays are given artificial longevity by getting constant updates, instead of trying to make something that's just really good on release and can be played over and over going forward. Look at how many people still play CS 1.6, SC Brood War, Super Smash Melee, etc
I'm honestly just glad that "live-service game" has become a negative term in the gaming community. I don't want to grind out fetching 100 bear asses to get a 0.95% improvement on one of my character's skills. Give me games like The Witcher 3, where the devs said "Here you go, it costs $60. You want a little more? Here's a bit of DLC. If you want more than that, you can replay it while you wait for your next game."
We love our cold takes here
Outer Wilds. Maybe not my favorite game of all time but one I can’t stop thinking about and recommending.
20 hours for the base game. 15-20 for the expansion. And that’s it. Absolutely no replayability. (Except for watching blind play throughs)
A person only needs a handful of forever games to keep them occupied, but only singular experiences can change your life
Underrated series, lovely voices
These are somehow getting better
My personal opinion, if ya want to make a game that last forever, just make a good (or really bad) game that people will keep talking about. Doesn't have to be alive, just has to be memorable.
I love this new videogame journalism!
I definitely research the DLC situation before playing a game, but it's not because DLC on the way means I should play it. Almost the opposite: DLC on the way means I'll just play something else in the meantime and keep waiting for the DLC to be over with. I don't like playing only part of a game, and I also don't like jumping back into the deep end of a game after forgetting how to play it over a couple months to a year or more away from it. So the completion of all foreseeable DLC is the one and only sign it's safe to finally play a game the way I like - start to finish and done, then onto the next game.
To me, the completion of all add-on content and development isn't a bad thing that means a game is dead, it's a good thing that means the game is finally complete. Or at least as completed as it's ever going to be.
I love these, great thing to watch in my off time
I feel like one of the best modern games to keep on trucking in a way that is super respectful of the player base is Deep Rock Galactic. Still adding content but without any crazy monetization. Awesome developers!
Rock and Stone, Brother!
Cold take feels like a ron pearlman advice take on gaming industry
8:13 "They wanna be the only culture that's popping" ha
Correction. Overwatch did not launch with esports on day one. Overwatch went on sale in May 2016, and the first Overwatch League season began in January 2018.
That substantial delay was probably a real drag on OWL popularity, as the game itself had started to recede from mainstream awareness by then.
Can someone say what game is shown with the sand worm at about 6:18? Thanks!
It’s an upcoming Dune mmo or mmorg, I don’t know the acronym.
Hot Take: I think there's a lot of positive things about the F2P model that some of these largest games have adopted. I can play with friends regardless of whether they can afford a new game or not right now. I can choose how much to spend (even though, yea.. the games aren't shy about begging you to do so).
F2P creates a somewhat shady play environment, but one that allows players of all economic backgrounds to play together on an even field. The game is supported by those who have money to burn, but entertains the rich and poor in equal measures.
To follow your thought, I think 'Among Us' was kind of great in allowing people from varying hardware to play together, being relatively inexpensive and not graphically demanding.
(Though whether you had good wifi is another question 😬😬)
Interesting thought, though for the most part I can't agree - F2P COULD do that, but far to many of them are 'give us your money or be forever stuck being uncompetitive and/or at the low level'. Technically free to play, but only if you are happy to lose alot more often and spend forever stuck in the low tiers - its not actually a good gaming experience at all without paying in MORE than the one time purchase AAA pricetag every few months, and the ones that are not trying to rip your wallet out to actually play the game are usually such shallow gaming experiences they aren't really worth 'buying' anyway.
That Wii U line was great
There are examples of forever games that allow you to play previous versions of it. Stellaris is a great example. Stellaris a few years back is not at all what Stellaris is like nowadays. But you can always go back to previous editions of the game to play it the way it was.
I agree so strongly about the "wannabe immortal" games with no identity. There are far too many people who just "want to make games" and hopefully get rich, without actually having any interesting ideas.
Sometimes they View it solely as a business venture and focus on copying the proven means of sucking money out of customers
But there are also a not inconsequential quantity of Young Developers. People in their teens discovering coding for the first time, pick up an engine and quickly crank out a clone of something they know, without significant experience in design
This latter case might be a good thing in the long run. Such games are bound to fail and prove a lesson to encourage honing the craft
I do miss the days when I got a new (at least to me) game and just play it without having to wait for installing, updating, and some saying buy stuff for your game.
Well said sir.
As we are talking about the immortals, the one who comes to my mind is not the minecraft, the dwarf fortress, but of a similiar kind. Also a story generator STELLARIS is my forever game. Is it immortal? No, very much alive and ever changing. It has at least 7 times renewed itself. Every Patch is a new game, new ways, new stories and new mechanics. It is young but it may just one day be the game that was many. For every Patch was it's own game.
That was a really silly yet snappy close
What was the game that was around the 7:00 mark? (It starts a little before...)
DayZ
@@TheOtherFrost Thanks! I wasn't sure, I never got to see a cutscene from when others play the game.😅
I see TF2 as the progenitor of many of the trends of current era of entertainment.
It is a zombie game, where Valve basically allows the players to do what they please with it, even releasing a scripting kit to allow better custom maps. It is filled with bots, scams, and degenerate art work. It is filled with random friendly moments, fun role playing, and quirky bugs which allows for all sorts of explorations and new methods of playing. It maintains a solid player base, with folks coming and going, with most putting in several hundred hours worth over the two decades it has been out. It has hats and crates for that gambling itch, plus crafting as an attempt to grab items you want. Idle servers for folks to place multiple bots, to collect items for said crafting, which causes the market value for most items to be less than a dollar with some being over a hundred dollars.
Folks want to recreate TF2 without the gameplay loop or brand recognition of Valve. They study and theorize what makes TF2, TF2, but it is the community which keeps it running. Shoot, the closest community I can think of is Fat Shark's. However, they were bought out by Tencent, so must do what Tencent tells them to do, hence the crappy mechanics around an excellent gameplay loop.
The others, have ruined their reputation, through game actions, and outside game actions.
Blizzard of the early 2000's is dead and gone.
Bethesda is a game company which lost the spark from Troika games.
EA is a graveyard of many companies.
Nintendo created a cult, so the quality of their games continues to decrease. (Which is better fan boys: Gensin Impact, or Breath of the Wild?)
Few reach the state of "immortal" with intent, most land there without realising.
Being my first Cold Take video, the intellectual depth really surprised me. And now I want more.🙂
Hell yeah dude ❤️
You know what's immortal ? Undead creatures, that are generally considered soulless. Makes sense. If you want a game to last forever by chasing trends, it probably doesn't have much of an identity to begin with, or at least it will lose it along the way.
Would Frost consider rogue-likes and rogue-lites to be "immortal games"?
Binding of Isaac, Hades or most other rogue-adjacents don't sting you for dosh with battle passes or microtransactions, but they encourage a sort of perpetual play.
Maybe I'm biased because I lump rogue-adjacent games in with the games described here; games that are meant to be played forever that I just can't get into.
I love rogues, but the only ones I would potentially consider immortal is The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth and Realm of the Mad God.
Actively developed.
Solid player base.
Maintaing some form of relevance.
Perpetual play does help longevity but not all perpetual play is timeless. Solitaire, for example, could be played thousands of times before you run into the same draw of cards, but it all starts to feel the same after about 3 games.
The roguelike genre also keeps making more advancements in design that make it harder to go back to the older ones. Not many people are still playing Rogue (1980) even though it's readily available.
I would say "no," they wouldn't count as "immortal games" in the context of the video. But perhaps, this might be something those immortal games aspire to be, in a sense.
Why I say this is the Rogue-likes/lites are generally a "pay once for a given amount of amusement" with the understanding that eventually you'll move on, and that's fine. The "run-based" nature of the gameplay just makes it more digestible and in theory, easier to return to. Something that serves to occupy you for an hour or two at a time and is easy to pick up and put down. And a good Rogue needs a strong core gameplay loop, because that's what is making you return. The "immortal" games, based on the video, are more about forming a habit and hooking you into revisiting with reward loops and trying to push you into the microtransactions to make the publisher more money. But because they're often seeking all the money they can get, they seek to be as broadly appealing as possible, which often does not lead to a particularly strong gameplay loop. Not that they can't be enjoyed, but more that that they're not particularly deep, and lean on the multiplayer element to cover that up.
Rogues hook you like the good kind of video game, and are there for you whenever you *want* to go back to them. A lot of the "Immortal Games" seek to hook you like a fish and reel you in without you realizing it. I understand what you're getting at in terms of the same kind of cyclical gameplay, but I'd look to the context outside the game as well. You could be hooked on Binding of Isaac in the same way you are with say, Doom, Final Fantasy, Mario, or whatever. They're all games you can revisit whenever, and they'll patiently wait for you to come back.
To put it simply, you pay like 20 bucks for Dead Cells which could keep you entertained for dozens (maybe hundreds, if you're into it) of hours, or you pay 20 bucks for a *Skin* in Overwatch. I think that's where you can more staunchly draw the line for a game that is trying to be "Immortal."
Don’t those games have a campaign with an end? As in, you _could_ play endlessly if you wanted but there is a stopping point? If so (haven’t played them) then I’d say no. They certainly have that “immensely replayable” factor, but it isn’t like Fortnite where there is no end goal because there’s no campaign.
7:50 Why was there a chibi Galactus?
I think there's been a few "Immortal" games,
and they're usually the ones that were'nt trying to be immortal.
as much as the likes of Overwatch and Fortnite dominate everyones minds, the moment they stop recieving regular updates, they'll quickly fade to obscurity, like the rest of their genres crowded brethren.
but games Like Minecraft, Terraria, TF2, and Portal. Games that could never see another update again, and would be happily enjoyed for another decade.
then you have truly well made games, or games with amazing stories, Bioshock, Fallout New Vegas, etc. that you remember because of the stories they tell.
the games that profoundly alter your view of reality, Indie games seem to dominate this one. Games like Outer Wilds, that changed my perspective on life, while not immortal, leave a lasting impact.
none of these game tried to be immortal, and became such anyway
I really hate "bigger is better" approach. Listen, I don't care for those 134356 fetch quests and 14677 collectibles you are trying to offer me, give me a game I will enjoy.
As soon as i realized we were going to be talking about changing trends i vote we should immediately change what "immortal" means to "zombification". Yeah simpsons is an immortal TV show and i dont think anyone really considers that anything more than neutral to a horrifying implication of what the simpsons characters go through on a yearly basis.
Smooth like butter
My shame is that I'm a sucker for Counter Strike.
Although I mostly play shorter story-driven single player games, I've played CS for literal decades now in various forms. Although I don't indulge in the skin-economy, I fire up CSGO at least once a week for some headshots. I even dabble in the battle royale mode...
We Are Going To Live FOREVER!
I was not ready to hear your voice in this frost XD
Are all these videos so buttery smooth?
Indeed they are.
"want my old shit, buy my old albums" - Jaz-Z/Nintendo
Please tell me this man does audiobooks.
Not gonna lie it took me way too long to realize that frost was doing the cold take series. Not that it didn't know the voice but I missed the word play.
I could listen to Seb's voice all day, although he does remind me of Terry Wogan for some reason.
Man these are great.
You have a real voice, something to say; thanks for that
Only thing I disagree with is the people on stacks of money won't worry about the tax so no need to adjust for it