Why would you want a tank as a healer when the only thing you lack is damage. Same for dps just a healer is enough the problem is more that auto attacks are a bit overturned in delves at the moment.
It's felt great to me on pres evoker and resto druid - the healers where I can put out good DPS bursts and then live forever with good defensives / high mobility. But the lower damage/mobility healers? Fuck that. DPS spec all the way.
ik this is a super casual take but honestly the storytelling this expansion is so significantly better than it had literally ever been that I feel like they stalled m0s to give people time to take it slow and enjoy the story. I know most of the people desperately waiting for harder content probably won’t engage with the story anyway, but the storytelling is legitimately so far beyond that I’d want to do whatever I could as a developer to get people to experience it
ALOO, a story enjoyer here who literally only plays WoW for the challenging content.When I get bored in WoW or feel like I've reached my M+/raid cap, I go back to Guild Wars 2 and keep working on my checklists haha Very pleased with where they've taken the narrative and I hope the continue to do that, it's good for the health of a game and (even though a lot of people skip over it probably) it seals the connection emotionally for a lot of players, which is incredibly valuable!
I play decently competitive content but I’m with ya, easily the best storytelling and I love the earthen! Most people I know skip it and try to get pre-raid bis, but I’m fine chilling at 580 on a couple toons and vibing with side quest stories
The story telling is better than old wow. On terms of gaming storytelling, it's d tier at best. They're so bad compared to other games. Objectively bad character development, bad story beats, nothing at stake.
yes but that wont make this morlock in the upper left corner happy..did you see the smile on the creeps face when he said the leavers should get banned for 7 days
@@raymondluca7779 They should, leaving is absolute virgin energy, you play 10 hours a day anyway, what are you gonna do, leave so that you just afk in town ? :) PS : I just do the dg for stones anyway, who cares
I cannot say this with enough joy in my heart: the elemental Shaman changes are so good. This is the first truly promising set of changes in multiple expansions.
18:30 there is nothing more annoying as a DPS than waiting 20 mins for a dungeon, getting in and its just the last boss. NOTHING more annoying than that when it comes to dungeon issues. So i can see why people exploded about what he said. It isn't about filling the spot its purely about the experience of the person who is filling the group.
I've had groups where literally all 4 left because they didn't get their twinket. Or heal/tank leaves and you have to wait another 10-15+ minutes. And the people filling, they don't get a chance at the trinket that obviously everyone wants. And so on. Leaving after a boss is egotistical, selfish bs behaviour that's clearly against social contract. Easily warrants 1-2 week suspension
@@schmidthAra’kara immediately comes to mind. Have had several runs where the first boss dies and multiple people leave because no trinkie and then I’m stuck waiting for other people or stuck waiting for ten minutes so I can queue again. Super annoying.
I've never waited more than 30s to replace a tank/healer leaving. Try rejoining the queue when they leave instead of making up some sob story on TH-cam. 15 minutes 🤣🤣🤣
@@FrankEnbeahn-je1zq I could see it if both tank + healer leave and it's like 3 am or something maybe... but yeah it sounds like an exaggeration. Longest I've waited so far is 3 minutes for a replacement tank - but I'm the healer so I've never experienced both tank and healer leaving.
not often but it does happen and it fuckin sucks. had a dungeon where the tank+healer+1dps were grouped and they dipped immediately after the 2nd boss. complete waste of time
When I was spamming heroics for valor one run took about 7-8 minutes to complete. Even though players could be replaced in a couple of seconds you lose a lot more time with it, as they will need to realize what's happening and reach the group. The worst case is when a healer leaves and the tank doesn't notice it and pulls what they pull usually but end up dying. That can easily lose you minutes of your time. I was mainly tanking in the dungeons I did so I have no experience when a tank left, but I'd imagine it would be even worse as you just have to wait for them. But the main thing is. It's just annoying. When I want to do a couple of dungeons I just want to blast and get through it as soon as possible. And people leaving mid dungeon just took the wind out of my sail. I'm used to send cooldowns in a predetermined way but now everything is different. Additionally it's very useful to check on your healer to see what they can handle. When you get a new healer you need to check them again or you risk pulling more than your group can handle and just wipe. I'd compare this to the situation where you want to go through a door but someone stops in it and blocks your way. I guarantee that the majory of people would get annoyed before 10 seconds would pass. The thing is everyone likes to go on their way and do what they want to. They definitely don't like to get inconvinienced even if it's relatively small. It adds up over time.
i was spamming heroics for valor, after a 10 minute queue i got in and there was 1 boss left, so someone leaving means my 10 minue wait got me 1/3 of the valor i should be getting.
I love how week after week Dratnos just sits there and politely smiles and nods along to some of the biggest Ls on the net. Lord I adore this man. xDDDDDDD
The part about people in leveling dungeons pulling whole rooms thinking they are Dorki. I remember a while ago when the discussion among higher end players was how Blizz had planned for players to cope with interrupts and stuns and stops in M+ and the big difference between coordinated groups with organized stops and rotations for interrupts and a PuG group where alot of casts just go through because no one bothers to interrupt. Now think about leveling dungeons where tanks pull all the way to boss. This can work great if people use stuns, interrupts and defensives and when the players are in ilvl520 gear from doing a few DF S4 Awakened raids. But as I was listening to this episode I was in the Meadery dungeon with a BDK Tank with 350k health. My alt had 1.3mil. The Tank had a bunch of gear that was ilvl24 and tried to pull the whole first room in the Meadery and obviously the tank melted in less than a second. The Tank eventually left and was replaced by another Tank who did the same and with no interrupts or stuns or Defensive CDs the tank was the only persno who did not die repeatedly to every trashpack. A few episodes ago I remember Growl talking about what should limit how big a pull can be and argued that maybe Tank not able to survive is a good limiting factor all things considered. In these leveling dungeons the Tanks are the last to die and some are almost selfsustainable all the while the rest of the group dies around them. Only when the Tank died 2-3 times did they accept that maybe they could not keep pulling the full room every time and started to do smaller pulls and all of a sudden we did not wipe anymore.
Regarding the rework discussion at the beginning: They are reworking the Paladin general tree (class tree), which is still based on a very old version with many 2-point nodes. They reworked the spec trees but not the class trees before War Within. So, it seems reasonable to rework those old trees
I mean sure we went from 7 2point nodes to 3 but we also shifted power from 21-31 to 9-20. Theres like 60% trash nodes rn in 21-31 range. At least from prot pal pov it feels like a net negative, losing 4% haste from seal of alacrity, seal of order 10% cdr being gone is a shot in the knee. While we got auto sac which is bad, sac dispells poisons is aight, bubble usuable during forbearance with very bad situational condition just meh.
I love the wit we’ve had for season one to start. I’ve had to work a lot in the last few weeks, so I haven’t had much time to play. This gives me the chance to catch up.
Tanks have been terrible in general, it's not that they pull everything, it's that they do it wrong, they don't pull aggro on anything, the mobs attack you even if you're afk, they kill the entire group several times in a run and there's little you can do if you're not the tank. I don't know how many wipes I've seen in the bees dungeon, or stonevault. If you do it correctly, it's great.
The problem with the big pulls is mostly the unskilled tanks who just think bigger is always better but either do the pull in a way that's slower than multiple smaller pulls in quick succession would be, or straight up don't know their limits and get themselves (and the group) killed. In the latter case, usually they flame the group after and it's just exhausting to deal with.
Its also the othet way around, when i started tanking i was going slow, learning the mobs, doing reasonable pulls. But everytime theres this dps bringing more mobs to the pull saying "PULL BIGGER OMG". So the tanks reaction then is to start pulling bigger, without the necessary knowledge of the mobs. Then we get flamed for pulling more!
how is jb's take crazy? all he was trying to say is that if all classes are tuned so the difference is smaller than what you need to do an extra key level, then that would be ideal. Although that is pretty hard to quantify with different utility.
If max doesn’t care about the whole leaving LFG thing, why does he throw his hat into the ring by tweeting about it? That’s mole territory buddy. You better watch out.
@@aelam02 I mean tbf he started talking about something that he seems super ignorant about. So completely get why he regrets bringing it up, because that's always annoying. It's fine not to find leaving annoying, but saying that it affects no one negatively is obviously incorrect
Tip: bind jump to scroll wheel-up, you can immediately jump or immediately glide depending on the length of your scroll on one key-bind that's probably not even a key-bind you use currently.
I can't stop playing this damn expansion, it's so fun and I love how it respects the player's time a lot better. If I could rep farm more I'd be completely nolifing these first two weeks to get it up to max, but just as well you can't else the burnout risk would be a lot higher.
Whether it takes 10 seconds or a minute or 5 minutes to fill a group after a leaver, the fact remains the leaver decided to cash in some amount of gametime from everyone else in exchange for his own personal gain. That's scummy.
Not to mention if the dps queues are 10+ minutes and you get put into a dungeon with 3/4 bosses killed it’s really lame. These guys are pretty out of touch on this issue imo. This is the tank podcast after all.
This is what they mean when they say forcing different player bases together because that person who left also doesn’t want to feel like they’re held hostage to finish a run when there’s nothing left for them to gain. Different mindsets about the game being forced to intermingle.
If blizzard let the serious/min max players do different content to more casual players, this wouldn’t be an issue. They chose to make heroics farmable, and now the community is farming in the most efficient way possible.
I know it is a lax release schedule for these opening weeks, but personally I like it. It has given me a good amount of time to try different characters without feeling rushed at all.
I've leveled 2 characters to 80, one a disc priest and one a prot warrior. I don't have any problem with a tank pulling from boss to boss, I do it on my warrior. However, I do have an issue with healing a tank doing that and then getting kicked from the group because I cant keep him alive because he's getting hit like a truck since he only has mitigation up 20% of the time. Everyone blames the healer. When the vote comes, its not even a question of if the tank knows what the fuck he is doing, it's just that the group died, so it must be a healer issue.
The amount of fucking times I've lost my darkmoon faire buff mid-dungeon because the tank pulls insane amounts of packs and the healer can't keep up is frustrating as hell. Man I'm just trying to get leveling done.
That's ALWAYS healer issue, on heroic there are few dangerous, but possible pulls that can lead to wipes unless played borderlane perfect...but on normal you can pull entire dungeon with the Boss and its fine...hell some of the larger pulls are possible even if some players are left behind and boss closes the doors on them
The take about leaving a dungeon "is not a big deal." To me just shows that Matt for the most part doesn't play solo or as part of a group of 3 where they are relient on people not leaving.
I mean he even mentioned that the group filled instantly. The fact of the matter is that this issue really only exists at the moment because the sweats and the moles are forced to play together. Next week the issue disappears. If you get mad that someone leaves your dungeon and then the system instantly back fills the group you're a clown lol
Dorki is hinting at the fact blizzard had these changes alrdy, they were too slow to roll them out because liquid already tested there comps and so they decided to hold until race over. Off. Be honest . It’s for the integrity
As someone who has limited time in the patch since i do pvp raid and m+ one nicr thing about a really hard key being like a +15 instead of a 24 or whatever is that its less incremental key pushing you have to do since its a massive hassle time wise. For example i was pushing pretty high keys in bfa where i had every dungeon timed on a 24/25 and say you mostly go up by +1/2 levels on each dungeon at a time thats like 200 timed keys to get there even if you arent doing non prog keys
This is why I love tanking dungeons and m+. The problem solving is really fun. I also tanked my first boss end of last expansion. I was scared out of my mind. But it was great and I had a lot of fun. It's the same feeling I had when I got into tanking years ago and I'm so glad I got into it and enjoy pushing further
The small changes that they could put in now could also be that they are making those changes based on the bigger changes being pushed through. The changes might interact differently without the rest going through.
Regarding the shopping cart analogy. The difference would be if when you took the shopping cart and you KNEW it would take 10 minutes to put but, but you still didn't put it back and the next person who showed up to the store didn't have a shopping cart.
Nah fuck that. I want to do dungeons not put my thumb in my ass and sit around a main city. I do not care about the story, I do not care about rep grinds or mounts . I want gear as fast as possible and I want to start pushing my io up again. Like what would we do if there was a weekly lockout I finished 8 m0s on 2 characters after my full work shift (in case someone was about to accuse me of being a basement dweller lol)
Nothing wrong with pulling huge, nothing wrong with going fast, issue comes when, the tank does not in fact have aggro, the group is dying and they are nowhere to be found. The difference is, that some tanks, or people playing tank, don't understand how to pull, they just think bigger, faster is better. There is a way to do this correctly. But it isn't happening a lot of the time in these heroic dungeons.
Demon hunters looking at the ptr notes are just laughing. 2 lines of text for the whole beta cycle, 2 lines of text for the ptr. The class is clearly literal perfection
@@hugofreitas6799 Eh not if they go by throughput lol. Seems like some people just always want demon hunter to get nerfed though Edit: Overall buff to DH inc so devs agree I guess
It plays fine but for the love of god please update the actual visuals of the hero talents they look so boring even though fel scarred is fun seeing just random green farts instead of new looking abilities when you meta is such a shame
... probably says something about someone somewhere. About the issue with leavers. You usually aren't too slow when it comes to understanding issues that other players experience in the game. But this time it seems like some of you are intentionally ignoring the obvious bad parts of it? It's not really up for debate either tbh. When someone leaves a dungeon, another person has to fill that spot and has to join a dungeon in progress when they likely wanted a try at that leaver boss too. Whether or not you think that's an important issue or not is fair enough, but it definitely does have negative effects. Saying you don't understand why some people are mad, or saying that it has no effect at all on anyone is just disingenious, or ignorant. Besides, it's just a deeper issue of people stopping to care about or be considerate for others, and only thinking of themselves, which is a sad development socially no matter how you look at it
I think the Ascendant forms look really cool, absolutely crazy for sure, but in a Witch Doctor Death Dealer kind of way. I don't know, for me they look pretty sweet.
Your opinion on leavers is weird. Maybe it is because you have more time than me or play with premades or whatever. I wait more than 10 minutes for a queue. Then everyone leaves after the first boss and I have the choice of waiting another 10+ minutes and force other players to pick up the slack or never get loot from later bosses. It is a huge problem from a time AND toxicity standpoint.
@@adamsandstrom7246 por que no dos? Theres definitely a world where mole people are allowed to have fun and feel validated and high end players can be challenged by other things. More for them doesn't always mean less for me.
@@roninkoans6065we've been there, only problems are the tunings for the meta classes can be a bit much. All of those players complaining on that never played LoL.
Nah Paladins and Boomkins were clearly sacrificed at release. I don't believe for a second that they wanted to release them in their current state and then do massive reworks of their talents halfway through the tier. I could see maxes point if it was the Hero talents getting some love, but these are the basic class trees getting big reworks.
I don't think you guys realize how soon the 11.0.5 patch is coming. The 4 faction crests they're adding are for completing the November trading post, so the patch will need to be out by the end of October, likely releasing on the 22nd or 29th. Plus they said at Gamescom the anniversary event would likely begin in late October, so it lines up with that as well.
My only complaint for tanks and this has only happened once, but I had someone try to run to the first boss in City of Threads. Which was a shit show because almost all of the mobs are casters before the first boss and if not interrupted stun and kill everyone lol. Laughed it off as the tank being a dumb ass, but yea.
B...but you can do that pull! Its easy! Hell its the best run to do, cuz Boss teleports slavkers to him. You skip most mobs by hugging the wall, and then you have just 2 or 3 packs + the boss to nuke
100% agreed on Dorki's first point about not wanting to play a class if you know a rework is coming. I've mained shaman for 2 expansions, and after reading the patch notes I don't want to play this current version of shaman anymore because of how fun it looks like it'll be.
The "heroics are the old M0" change kinda doesnt go into effect till s1 start. Heroic dungeon difficulty and loot goes up then. So this is maybe just Heroics are too easy during preseason thing. However, gear acquisition has never been this fast at the start of expac. DF launch didnt have upgrades or crests.
The problem with people leaving dungeons is extremely small but also very cut and dry, so that there are even people who disagree is probably why you see strong opinions about it. When DPS A leaves after the first boss because he didn't get his item, new DPS B who replaces him and also wanted loot from the first boss now basically has his queue wasted. Basically players like DPS A think their time is worth more than anyone else's. People's reactions aren't about the actual consequences (which are pretty minimal, it's literally heroics), it's about rightfully shitting on people with main character syndrome
Ironically..... you thinking that it is appropriate to hold players hostage in a dungeon where they cannot earn any crests and there isn't any gear they need from the bosses after the boss they need...... means "you" are pretending that your time means more than yours and "you" are exhibiting your main character syndrome. The thing about dps A who needs to leave is that they don't view their time as more than yours, they view their time as "equal" to yours. They are fully aware that it is better for them to get out of the way for dps B to queue in who actually still needs more gear from bosses that dps A didn't.
Yeah, dh has to wait for the first design change to fel-scarred since its reveal, which is also one that had been asked for since its reveal in alpha because of how bad the original version of the talent was. Excluding tuning, that is the only non-aldrachi talent change that havoc has received in any tree since alpha and we need to wait a couple months for it.
Bruh Mistweaver still has bugs that have been there since dragonflight prepatch which will most likely never get fixed until the bug talents are removed from the game. We still have chi wave and chi burst doing a laughable low throughput ever since legion what are you even complaining about? Holy priest has never been that good and sure discipline isn't exactly amazing in dungeons but it's still the best raid healer by far and will always be. The priest whining is genuinely hilarious, it's one of the very few classes in the game who has all 3 hero talents genuinely playable on all 3 of its specs and with interesting gameplay for all 3 of them.
Man... it would be SO FUNNY, if one day we had the Bench and Poddyc in a special podcast, and Dorki and Yummytv picture would be like Dorki in the gym with Yummy as his spotter doing some bench press.... Yea!! Fronk make it Happen !!!!
I do think that the changes were intended to be released earlier because some of them are visual updates. Some of them probably were thrown in after people started playing, but most of them I reckon were planned for launch. What i don't understadn is why not just say "we hear that balance druid sucks atm we are going to address that"
The problem with dungeon leavers right now is that 1) heroics are the only thing to do for some people 2) It's annoying if it takes 5+ minutes to find a replacement tank/healer or you're joining a dungeon with bosses down that you wanted 3) it's fucking HEROIC DUNGEON that'll get replaced soon yet you're inconveniencing people, no matter how little, for what?
the ascendance form is really cool for zanalari trolls/ DS trolls it looks like bwonsamdi a lot, for orcs/ any other shaman race? idk i hope you can glyph back to old form cuz thats a serious flavor switchup
the problem with some tanks going bananas, specially DHs, is that they're so goddamn fast that in a lot of instances you get locked out of a the boss' room, there's no way a hunter or a shadowpriest can catch up to one of those fuckers. It's not about enjoing the dungeon, it's about barely even being able to play, it's the same thing that happened in pandaria remix where if you were grouped up with a roided up character, you weren't playing, you were just cleaning up after them
Always stay ahead of the tank during the fight with a pack, don’t butt pull, don’t get hit by frontals, but as things die, already be ahead of the rest of the group ready for the next pack. Then during the next fight move ahead.
now ive been that dh today, pugged about 30-40 dungeons today, the only boss this ever happened was stone vault the dark(left) corridor twice, once it was a shadow and i think i might have been too fast, the other time was a pala chilling afk at 1st boss for 10s+ now going afk 10s is not a big deal, but at the same time being locked in for 5min ( the whole run didnt take any longer) is also not much to ask. but overall the players didnt contribute much, i usually did 90+% of the dmg, the current content is def very undertuned, heroics arent m0s of previous expansions like promised, they are just like heroics before
@@sandstorm7476 I mean sure, but am i going to be tanking the 20 mobs i'm going to be running into if i try to stay in front? also to do that you would have to be able to rely on the tank not dying, and the dps not pulling aggro and dying neither of which is a guarantee. 9/10 times you can't get in front, brecause you have to heal from the start or else the tank jsut falls over, because we are talking about shit tanks thinking they are the shit. They just rely on the healer keeping them alive and then just pulling half the dungeon. What you are saying is very possible and is actually the solution, but mostly only works in organised groups of any description because the tank has to allow you to get in front. If you aren't a monk or druid, good luck.
@@RobotboyX2 Scaling in levelling dungeons pre 80 has beenfucked for several expansions, i was in a group with a lvl 70 frost mage that did 1.2 million dps, just because you are doing 90%+ of the damage at this stage, isn't saying much.
I have three friends who no-lifed the game from Vanilla through Burning Crusade that haven't touched it since. They came back for TWW and have been enjoying it, definitely the people that these two weeks was meant for.
I see what the jdotb take is, if EVERY class comp can complete a +14, but NO class comp can complete a +15, then every class is viable and theoretically that'd be good. But I think balancing to that extent would be extremely difficult in a game like WoW that has stuff like spell steal, mass dispel, BoP, these very unique class abilities. You would probably end up with an even starker issue where every class can do the 14 like intended, and exactly these 5 classes together can do a +15.
Btw they announced Return to Karazahn a week after Legion launch so they have done that before. Also y'all are assuming there is only one person leaving after the first boss...it is literally 2-3 people everytime and then the rest leaves as well.
The problem with the tanks is they pull everything and when they have everything grouped they don’t get near keeping threat and it completely ruins the experience for the other 4 people
Nah man wall pulling the entire dungeon is faceroll. It’s the morons who dismount and blow their entire load on the mob that you 1 tapped to move. Also people don’t use their CC’s or lust on these omega pulls. Tank in these faceroll heroics trying to pull big are the only ones with even a single working brain cell.
I do pretty decently high M+ and have mythic raided as a healer, when I join a heroic dungeon I expect to just relax and vibe which is the case in 99% of my heroics, however for your average healer who maybe engages with heroics/M0s as their true end game I can 100% see people complaining that they can't even stop to think it also doesn't help that currently you get some dungeons with really good dps and others you get timmy the no cooldown using sob who eats swirlies like they are cinnamon rolls.
36:49 It was never specifically stated as they are not allowd to say word for word as it would be an announcement of classic +. But there is an interview where the SOD dev teams were asked about classic+ and their response was something along the lines of “well why do you think we are doing this” eluding to the fact that SOD is a test bed to see what people like and dislike for classic + Here is the clip th-cam.com/users/clipUgkxhCLaJUbkhfTsoTN8VWUnSpc3BRUKqWfq?si=lqh07DncPuTs1rs4
Dorki had a good point at the start, consistent and big changes were a big factor with SoD drop off. Even for casuals having classes massively change in effectiveness is a massive turn off because one day youll be playing a certain way and next day you have to re learn talents and re gear, its not fun and especially for casual players who only play 1 or 2 classes its a massive deal
I agree that the dungeon leavers is a non-issue. Especially because it's only relevant for a short period. And the whole thing should really be considered a design option for Blizzard to fix. For example just add a good end-of-dungeon reward. But saying that groups instantly fills again is not always true when it's the tank that leaves. I have had multiple dungeon runs now where the tank leaves we have to wait for 5 minutes (again no big deal). Sometimes I have experience the rest of the group leaving after the tank left because they rather just queue for a new dungeon than wait for a new tank.
The heroic leaving is probably going to be mimicked in M0 week considering the reset is daily... This is why they should distribute loot at the end of the dungeon just like M+
I love y'all, but listening to you three giving your opinions about heroic dungeon leavers is like listening to millionaires saying the public healthcare system is totally fine.
They should rollback drops for leavers such that they would get the lockout but the item would get locked (unusable) until they complete the last boss of the instance. Also make the deserter debuff last 1h and be accountwide. Also if m+ players left mid dungeon before timer has popped ban them from m+ until next reset UNLESS everyone in the party major votes to end the key.
8:10 - YUP I'm playing MM hunter and was SO depressed about the state and feel of it with it's shit hero talents and clunky feel that I rolled FIVE other characters trying to find something that'd feel like my new home until hunter is fixed... only to find out the super sick hero talent I wanted that'd help smooth out rotation and everything EXISTS it just isn't coming until like November?!? bruh... same for my paladin dude lol wtf... at least I have mage and warlock I guess. Priest is fun but scuffed as a healer with no relevant changes coming lol
On the M0 release cycle, while I agree with Max and to me it feels like M0 should be out already.. I also wonder if I'd feel the same way if I hadn't buy early access... Because by the time the game officially released I already had all my tons leveled up and ready to do max level stuff.. However if I didn't had early access, meaning the game released on a Monday so I can't dedicate as much time I think it would have taken me most of the week to level-up my toons and barely get the weekly stuff done before reset, so I think this week would feel like last week did with initial gearing up and getting my professions going (I'm not big into professions but just getting it going early is nice).. And M0 would be coming out just one week after that.
I couldn’t agree more about mixing the different mindsets and groups of people. Another way for this to have been fixed, would have been to allow different factions to que together. For example, full guild groups. And just for ease of access, wanting to random que together, instead of walking to every dungeon you need. That alone separated most of my guild because we are different factions. It was just a big L for us and it should have been fixed at launch.
ive been 580+ since the first week heroics opened. I've got no real interest in renown - and I've been dicking around with professions but i'd have been better off saving my gold. this has been BRUTAL. at this point I've blasted all my crests of both colors just testing gear and stats out of boredom.
I dislike that dungeon leaving from the view of someone waiting for 20minutes to have a chance for that last item I need, to be placed into a group that already killed that boss. When that happens while in a group it mostly gets filled up fast enough to not care personally.
It's weird Brann doesn't have a tank spec for cloth DPS and healers.
Why would you want a tank as a healer when the only thing you lack is damage.
Same for dps just a healer is enough the problem is more that auto attacks are a bit overturned in delves at the moment.
Yup found at entering as a healer and was the worst experience I had
@@KIRSCHE_LIVE Worst maybe not, tedious certainly. Brann has the dps of a wet noodle
It's felt great to me on pres evoker and resto druid - the healers where I can put out good DPS bursts and then live forever with good defensives / high mobility.
But the lower damage/mobility healers? Fuck that. DPS spec all the way.
As holy priest, brann as DPS rocks.
max has the head of an orc on a dwarf's body
I have the back curve of a tauren with the body of a gnome
So true people need to hear this
😭😭
I have the body of F dwarf with posture of a troll. I'm a guy.
@@adamgarrow1 gnoll
Rip no Dratnos intro
ik this is a super casual take but honestly the storytelling this expansion is so significantly better than it had literally ever been that I feel like they stalled m0s to give people time to take it slow and enjoy the story. I know most of the people desperately waiting for harder content probably won’t engage with the story anyway, but the storytelling is legitimately so far beyond that I’d want to do whatever I could as a developer to get people to experience it
Yeah this is me.
Ikr even tho I do play M+ im glad I get time to actually play the story and side content/unlock mounts. Even the sidequests are pretty good
ALOO, a story enjoyer here who literally only plays WoW for the challenging content.When I get bored in WoW or feel like I've reached my M+/raid cap, I go back to Guild Wars 2 and keep working on my checklists haha
Very pleased with where they've taken the narrative and I hope the continue to do that, it's good for the health of a game and (even though a lot of people skip over it probably) it seals the connection emotionally for a lot of players, which is incredibly valuable!
I play decently competitive content but I’m with ya, easily the best storytelling and I love the earthen! Most people I know skip it and try to get pre-raid bis, but I’m fine chilling at 580 on a couple toons and vibing with side quest stories
The story telling is better than old wow. On terms of gaming storytelling, it's d tier at best. They're so bad compared to other games. Objectively bad character development, bad story beats, nothing at stake.
Unironically sick shirt dratnos. Love this podcast lol good luck in world first guys!
The easy fix to leavers is you put all the loot at the end like in M+ in all content. Do the dungeon or don't get the loot. Ezpz.
yes but that wont make this morlock in the upper left corner happy..did you see the smile on the creeps face when he said the leavers should get banned for 7 days
It's so obvious but damn you right
@@raymondluca7779 They should, leaving is absolute virgin energy, you play 10 hours a day anyway, what are you gonna do, leave so that you just afk in town ? :) PS : I just do the dg for stones anyway, who cares
@@Nhouyengah clearly you didn't read what I said...so you def are a morlock
This is eactly what i came here to say and have been saying since launch.
“Ya gotta be careful with Moonkins, they do like a good gaslight”…..😂😂😂😂 So true!!!
I cannot say this with enough joy in my heart: the elemental Shaman changes are so good. This is the first truly promising set of changes in multiple expansions.
Tanks: Heroics are so so so easy
Healers: 800k hps, Low Mana, Sweating, 185bpm heart rate.
Dps: What is happening!?!?!
"why am i stunned?"
DPS aren’t asking what is happening. We are too busy rolling over faces on our keyboards to care or even notice.
18:30 there is nothing more annoying as a DPS than waiting 20 mins for a dungeon, getting in and its just the last boss. NOTHING more annoying than that when it comes to dungeon issues. So i can see why people exploded about what he said. It isn't about filling the spot its purely about the experience of the person who is filling the group.
I've had groups where literally all 4 left because they didn't get their twinket. Or heal/tank leaves and you have to wait another 10-15+ minutes. And the people filling, they don't get a chance at the trinket that obviously everyone wants. And so on. Leaving after a boss is egotistical, selfish bs behaviour that's clearly against social contract. Easily warrants 1-2 week suspension
@@schmidthAra’kara immediately comes to mind. Have had several runs where the first boss dies and multiple people leave because no trinkie and then I’m stuck waiting for other people or stuck waiting for ten minutes so I can queue again. Super annoying.
I've never waited more than 30s to replace a tank/healer leaving. Try rejoining the queue when they leave instead of making up some sob story on TH-cam. 15 minutes 🤣🤣🤣
@@FrankEnbeahn-je1zq I could see it if both tank + healer leave and it's like 3 am or something maybe... but yeah it sounds like an exaggeration.
Longest I've waited so far is 3 minutes for a replacement tank - but I'm the healer so I've never experienced both tank and healer leaving.
not often but it does happen and it fuckin sucks. had a dungeon where the tank+healer+1dps were grouped and they dipped immediately after the 2nd boss. complete waste of time
When I was spamming heroics for valor one run took about 7-8 minutes to complete. Even though players could be replaced in a couple of seconds you lose a lot more time with it, as they will need to realize what's happening and reach the group. The worst case is when a healer leaves and the tank doesn't notice it and pulls what they pull usually but end up dying. That can easily lose you minutes of your time. I was mainly tanking in the dungeons I did so I have no experience when a tank left, but I'd imagine it would be even worse as you just have to wait for them.
But the main thing is. It's just annoying. When I want to do a couple of dungeons I just want to blast and get through it as soon as possible. And people leaving mid dungeon just took the wind out of my sail. I'm used to send cooldowns in a predetermined way but now everything is different. Additionally it's very useful to check on your healer to see what they can handle. When you get a new healer you need to check them again or you risk pulling more than your group can handle and just wipe.
I'd compare this to the situation where you want to go through a door but someone stops in it and blocks your way. I guarantee that the majory of people would get annoyed before 10 seconds would pass. The thing is everyone likes to go on their way and do what they want to. They definitely don't like to get inconvinienced even if it's relatively small. It adds up over time.
Had one where both tank and healer left and it took 3 mins to fill. Still faster than requeing as DPS, but it sucked
i was spamming heroics for valor, after a 10 minute queue i got in and there was 1 boss left, so someone leaving means my 10 minue wait got me 1/3 of the valor i should be getting.
Tl;dr
i think the worst part is going through a long queue as dps to then be filled into a run where the boss u would need is already dead
@@connorschmidt4175 actually illiterate lmao
Max doesn't care about the leaver issue because this is his job. Have to think of us moles who have limited time and can run 1-5 dungeons per week.
Calling yourself a mole is hilarious. Genuinely gave me a good laugh so thank you. Get some self confidence help if you can
I love how week after week Dratnos just sits there and politely smiles and nods along to some of the biggest Ls on the net. Lord I adore this man. xDDDDDDD
The part about people in leveling dungeons pulling whole rooms thinking they are Dorki.
I remember a while ago when the discussion among higher end players was how Blizz had planned for players to cope with interrupts and stuns and stops in M+ and the big difference between coordinated groups with organized stops and rotations for interrupts and a PuG group where alot of casts just go through because no one bothers to interrupt.
Now think about leveling dungeons where tanks pull all the way to boss. This can work great if people use stuns, interrupts and defensives and when the players are in ilvl520 gear from doing a few DF S4 Awakened raids.
But as I was listening to this episode I was in the Meadery dungeon with a BDK Tank with 350k health. My alt had 1.3mil. The Tank had a bunch of gear that was ilvl24 and tried to pull the whole first room in the Meadery and obviously the tank melted in less than a second. The Tank eventually left and was replaced by another Tank who did the same and with no interrupts or stuns or Defensive CDs the tank was the only persno who did not die repeatedly to every trashpack.
A few episodes ago I remember Growl talking about what should limit how big a pull can be and argued that maybe Tank not able to survive is a good limiting factor all things considered. In these leveling dungeons the Tanks are the last to die and some are almost selfsustainable all the while the rest of the group dies around them. Only when the Tank died 2-3 times did they accept that maybe they could not keep pulling the full room every time and started to do smaller pulls and all of a sudden we did not wipe anymore.
90% of my Dungeons have 1 or 2 people leave after the first boss. Its kinda suss tbh
Fun fact I listened to this while climbing Mount Snowden thanks for keeping me company lol
Regarding the rework discussion at the beginning: They are reworking the Paladin general tree (class tree), which is still based on a very old version with many 2-point nodes. They reworked the spec trees but not the class trees before War Within.
So, it seems reasonable to rework those old trees
I mean sure we went from 7 2point nodes to 3 but we also shifted power from 21-31 to 9-20. Theres like 60% trash nodes rn in 21-31 range. At least from prot pal pov it feels like a net negative, losing 4% haste from seal of alacrity, seal of order 10% cdr being gone is a shot in the knee. While we got auto sac which is bad, sac dispells poisons is aight, bubble usuable during forbearance with very bad situational condition just meh.
The annoyance aspect of people leaving is also the part of other tanks and healers who enter midway to 'clean up' after others
Hoooly that patreon episode was insane, that echo drama is wild
Liquid free win inc
I love the wit we’ve had for season one to start. I’ve had to work a lot in the last few weeks, so I haven’t had much time to play. This gives me the chance to catch up.
Tanks have been terrible in general, it's not that they pull everything, it's that they do it wrong, they don't pull aggro on anything, the mobs attack you even if you're afk, they kill the entire group several times in a run and there's little you can do if you're not the tank. I don't know how many wipes I've seen in the bees dungeon, or stonevault.
If you do it correctly, it's great.
"so chill you can get food out the oven in the middle of a run" is wild haha
Dorki is so much like Tettles in regards to their takes. They should really be on a podcast together.
My question is why weren’t tier 4-5 delves available this week to gear up instead of heroic dungeons?
Yeah I can't see any good reason why they couldn't match Delve ilvl to Heroic dungeon ilvl this week.
Bad management. They know wow community accepts mediocre service and won't hold them accountable by not resubbing.
@@Critirus There is enough to enjoy in the game that not being able to get 571 gear from delves this week is not even an issue
@TommyMcD yes that's exactly it, you've figured it out. The devs just sit around having money fights while laughing at the forums....
@@iamme625 thats subjective. Some people enjoy getting gear and progressing instead of questing and watching lore cutscenes.
The problem with the big pulls is mostly the unskilled tanks who just think bigger is always better but either do the pull in a way that's slower than multiple smaller pulls in quick succession would be, or straight up don't know their limits and get themselves (and the group) killed. In the latter case, usually they flame the group after and it's just exhausting to deal with.
Its also the othet way around, when i started tanking i was going slow, learning the mobs, doing reasonable pulls. But everytime theres this dps bringing more mobs to the pull saying "PULL BIGGER OMG". So the tanks reaction then is to start pulling bigger, without the necessary knowledge of the mobs. Then we get flamed for pulling more!
how is jb's take crazy? all he was trying to say is that if all classes are tuned so the difference is smaller than what you need to do an extra key level, then that would be ideal. Although that is pretty hard to quantify with different utility.
If max doesn’t care about the whole leaving LFG thing, why does he throw his hat into the ring by tweeting about it? That’s mole territory buddy. You better watch out.
lol that was his whole point of bringing it up, saying that he shouldn’t have tweeted about it
@@aelam02
I mean tbf he started talking about something that he seems super ignorant about. So completely get why he regrets bringing it up, because that's always annoying. It's fine not to find leaving annoying, but saying that it affects no one negatively is obviously incorrect
i've never heard dorki get more passionate than when he was pushing back about glide being overpowered LOL
True. He’s wrong but true.
Tip: bind jump to scroll wheel-up, you can immediately jump or immediately glide depending on the length of your scroll on one key-bind that's probably not even a key-bind you use currently.
I can't stop playing this damn expansion, it's so fun and I love how it respects the player's time a lot better.
If I could rep farm more I'd be completely nolifing these first two weeks to get it up to max, but just as well you can't else the burnout risk would be a lot higher.
Thanks Fronkard “PoddyC” MD
I had no idea about Max's tweet, I am retroactively outraged
Whether it takes 10 seconds or a minute or 5 minutes to fill a group after a leaver, the fact remains the leaver decided to cash in some amount of gametime from everyone else in exchange for his own personal gain. That's scummy.
Not to mention if the dps queues are 10+ minutes and you get put into a dungeon with 3/4 bosses killed it’s really lame. These guys are pretty out of touch on this issue imo. This is the tank podcast after all.
This is what they mean when they say forcing different player bases together because that person who left also doesn’t want to feel like they’re held hostage to finish a run when there’s nothing left for them to gain.
Different mindsets about the game being forced to intermingle.
If blizzard let the serious/min max players do different content to more casual players, this wouldn’t be an issue. They chose to make heroics farmable, and now the community is farming in the most efficient way possible.
You’re saying that you should sacrifice 10 minutes of my time though?
Skill issue idk
I know it is a lax release schedule for these opening weeks, but personally I like it. It has given me a good amount of time to try different characters without feeling rushed at all.
max dropping the ttv/dorki shoutout while dorkin it and staring at the camera is craaazy 49:00
I've leveled 2 characters to 80, one a disc priest and one a prot warrior. I don't have any problem with a tank pulling from boss to boss, I do it on my warrior. However, I do have an issue with healing a tank doing that and then getting kicked from the group because I cant keep him alive because he's getting hit like a truck since he only has mitigation up 20% of the time. Everyone blames the healer. When the vote comes, its not even a question of if the tank knows what the fuck he is doing, it's just that the group died, so it must be a healer issue.
The amount of fucking times I've lost my darkmoon faire buff mid-dungeon because the tank pulls insane amounts of packs and the healer can't keep up is frustrating as hell. Man I'm just trying to get leveling done.
That's ALWAYS healer issue, on heroic there are few dangerous, but possible pulls that can lead to wipes unless played borderlane perfect...but on normal you can pull entire dungeon with the Boss and its fine...hell some of the larger pulls are possible even if some players are left behind and boss closes the doors on them
@@xsardes336Nah, a goated healer can’t help a shit tank press their buttons and hold aggro.
This ending song slaps feels like im in an italian bistro watching the sunset but the bistro is inside and elevator.
The take about leaving a dungeon "is not a big deal." To me just shows that Matt for the most part doesn't play solo or as part of a group of 3 where they are relient on people not leaving.
I mean he even mentioned that the group filled instantly.
The fact of the matter is that this issue really only exists at the moment because the sweats and the moles are forced to play together. Next week the issue disappears.
If you get mad that someone leaves your dungeon and then the system instantly back fills the group you're a clown lol
Dorki is hinting at the fact blizzard had these changes alrdy, they were too slow to roll them out because liquid already tested there comps and so they decided to hold until race over.
Off. Be honest . It’s for the integrity
As someone who has limited time in the patch since i do pvp raid and m+ one nicr thing about a really hard key being like a +15 instead of a 24 or whatever is that its less incremental key pushing you have to do since its a massive hassle time wise. For example i was pushing pretty high keys in bfa where i had every dungeon timed on a 24/25 and say you mostly go up by +1/2 levels on each dungeon at a time thats like 200 timed keys to get there even if you arent doing non prog keys
This is why I love tanking dungeons and m+. The problem solving is really fun. I also tanked my first boss end of last expansion. I was scared out of my mind. But it was great and I had a lot of fun. It's the same feeling I had when I got into tanking years ago and I'm so glad I got into it and enjoy pushing further
the laugh drat let out when he said the civillians was real laughing at the peasants like hahaha
The small changes that they could put in now could also be that they are making those changes based on the bigger changes being pushed through. The changes might interact differently without the rest going through.
Regarding the shopping cart analogy. The difference would be if when you took the shopping cart and you KNEW it would take 10 minutes to put but, but you still didn't put it back and the next person who showed up to the store didn't have a shopping cart.
I am glad these 3 dont offer coaching.....
Cant wait for the sub rogue without dust, finally blizz may think of simply aligning flagellation with shadow blades
True. Started to tank in this xpac and I enjoy it so far. A significant portion of the dongeons I join are in the middle of the run.
Love Dorki, but the dude just steps all over conversation and wrecks the flow. Absolute menace on a podcast
Yeah, and he loooves being a contrarian, even when he doesn't really have a good counter-argument.
This week should have been m0 on a weekly lockout and then next week it was m0 on daily lockout.
Nah fuck that. I want to do dungeons not put my thumb in my ass and sit around a main city. I do not care about the story, I do not care about rep grinds or mounts . I want gear as fast as possible and I want to start pushing my io up again. Like what would we do if there was a weekly lockout I finished 8 m0s on 2 characters after my full work shift (in case someone was about to accuse me of being a basement dweller lol)
"Moonkins do love a good gaslight" come on, man.
fucking loved this comment as a boomie main
i mean who are we kidding here
Demon Hunters might be second @@dratnos
Rdruid grins through shades
The "Come on, man" response perfectly proved his gaslighting point haha
Nothing wrong with pulling huge, nothing wrong with going fast, issue comes when, the tank does not in fact have aggro, the group is dying and they are nowhere to be found. The difference is, that some tanks, or people playing tank, don't understand how to pull, they just think bigger, faster is better. There is a way to do this correctly. But it isn't happening a lot of the time in these heroic dungeons.
Demon hunters looking at the ptr notes are just laughing. 2 lines of text for the whole beta cycle, 2 lines of text for the ptr. The class is clearly literal perfection
You better fucking pray they dont show up on patchnotes my guy, because its only nerfs are coming for them
@@hugofreitas6799 Eh not if they go by throughput lol. Seems like some people just always want demon hunter to get nerfed though
Edit: Overall buff to DH inc so devs agree I guess
It plays fine but for the love of god please update the actual visuals of the hero talents they look so boring even though fel scarred is fun seeing just random green farts instead of new looking abilities when you meta is such a shame
but than theres other classes that are feeling great that have walls of text
They completely failed there my DH bud already quit. "Everyone else looks so cool, i got new throw glaive and light up buttons." @skdeathxlife
... probably says something about someone somewhere.
About the issue with leavers. You usually aren't too slow when it comes to understanding issues that other players experience in the game. But this time it seems like some of you are intentionally ignoring the obvious bad parts of it? It's not really up for debate either tbh. When someone leaves a dungeon, another person has to fill that spot and has to join a dungeon in progress when they likely wanted a try at that leaver boss too. Whether or not you think that's an important issue or not is fair enough, but it definitely does have negative effects. Saying you don't understand why some people are mad, or saying that it has no effect at all on anyone is just disingenious, or ignorant. Besides, it's just a deeper issue of people stopping to care about or be considerate for others, and only thinking of themselves, which is a sad development socially no matter how you look at it
I think the Ascendant forms look really cool, absolutely crazy for sure, but in a Witch Doctor Death Dealer kind of way. I don't know, for me they look pretty sweet.
easy solution to key leavers. make the rewards only available at the end. issue solved.
Your opinion on leavers is weird. Maybe it is because you have more time than me or play with premades or whatever.
I wait more than 10 minutes for a queue. Then everyone leaves after the first boss and I have the choice of waiting another 10+ minutes and force other players to pick up the slack or never get loot from later bosses.
It is a huge problem from a time AND toxicity standpoint.
Gotta just get a couple friends and then repeat spam queues. Even if you only have a squad of 3 friends, it'll cut 95% of your queue times
Ironically the moles keep the lights on
Unironically
Which has been their point all along, tune the game and make the game for them.
@@adamsandstrom7246 por que no dos? Theres definitely a world where mole people are allowed to have fun and feel validated and high end players can be challenged by other things. More for them doesn't always mean less for me.
@@roninkoans6065we've been there, only problems are the tunings for the meta classes can be a bit much. All of those players complaining on that never played LoL.
Nah Paladins and Boomkins were clearly sacrificed at release. I don't believe for a second that they wanted to release them in their current state and then do massive reworks of their talents halfway through the tier. I could see maxes point if it was the Hero talents getting some love, but these are the basic class trees getting big reworks.
I don't think you guys realize how soon the 11.0.5 patch is coming. The 4 faction crests they're adding are for completing the November trading post, so the patch will need to be out by the end of October, likely releasing on the 22nd or 29th. Plus they said at Gamescom the anniversary event would likely begin in late October, so it lines up with that as well.
Weird right? It's pretty obvious how soon it's coming out
My only complaint for tanks and this has only happened once, but I had someone try to run to the first boss in City of Threads. Which was a shit show because almost all of the mobs are casters before the first boss and if not interrupted stun and kill everyone lol. Laughed it off as the tank being a dumb ass, but yea.
B...but you can do that pull! Its easy! Hell its the best run to do, cuz Boss teleports slavkers to him. You skip most mobs by hugging the wall, and then you have just 2 or 3 packs + the boss to nuke
100% agreed on Dorki's first point about not wanting to play a class if you know a rework is coming. I've mained shaman for 2 expansions, and after reading the patch notes I don't want to play this current version of shaman anymore because of how fun it looks like it'll be.
The "heroics are the old M0" change kinda doesnt go into effect till s1 start. Heroic dungeon difficulty and loot goes up then. So this is maybe just Heroics are too easy during preseason thing. However, gear acquisition has never been this fast at the start of expac. DF launch didnt have upgrades or crests.
That does make sense!
In Cinderbrew, if the tank chain pulls you can't do anything as a Rogue, you might as well just put the healer on follow and go afk.
The problem with people leaving dungeons is extremely small but also very cut and dry, so that there are even people who disagree is probably why you see strong opinions about it.
When DPS A leaves after the first boss because he didn't get his item, new DPS B who replaces him and also wanted loot from the first boss now basically has his queue wasted.
Basically players like DPS A think their time is worth more than anyone else's.
People's reactions aren't about the actual consequences (which are pretty minimal, it's literally heroics), it's about rightfully shitting on people with main character syndrome
Ironically..... you thinking that it is appropriate to hold players hostage in a dungeon where they cannot earn any crests and there isn't any gear they need from the bosses after the boss they need...... means "you" are pretending that your time means more than yours and "you" are exhibiting your main character syndrome.
The thing about dps A who needs to leave is that they don't view their time as more than yours, they view their time as "equal" to yours. They are fully aware that it is better for them to get out of the way for dps B to queue in who actually still needs more gear from bosses that dps A didn't.
Almost everyone: New talents! Buffs! Priests: 2 bug fixes you have to wait until November for
At least they aren't fucking your rotation up and *fixing* something that's not broke by calling it a bug.
Yeah, dh has to wait for the first design change to fel-scarred since its reveal, which is also one that had been asked for since its reveal in alpha because of how bad the original version of the talent was. Excluding tuning, that is the only non-aldrachi talent change that havoc has received in any tree since alpha and we need to wait a couple months for it.
Bruh Mistweaver still has bugs that have been there since dragonflight prepatch which will most likely never get fixed until the bug talents are removed from the game. We still have chi wave and chi burst doing a laughable low throughput ever since legion what are you even complaining about?
Holy priest has never been that good and sure discipline isn't exactly amazing in dungeons but it's still the best raid healer by far and will always be.
The priest whining is genuinely hilarious, it's one of the very few classes in the game who has all 3 hero talents genuinely playable on all 3 of its specs and with interesting gameplay for all 3 of them.
@@Ailike32 i would say if there is nothing big planned for you on that big patch you might be expecting changes heroic/mythic week
Man... it would be SO FUNNY, if one day we had the Bench and Poddyc in a special podcast, and Dorki and Yummytv picture would be like Dorki in the gym with Yummy as his spotter doing some bench press....
Yea!! Fronk make it Happen !!!!
I do think that the changes were intended to be released earlier because some of them are visual updates. Some of them probably were thrown in after people started playing, but most of them I reckon were planned for launch. What i don't understadn is why not just say "we hear that balance druid sucks atm we are going to address that"
Funny that the 3 classes max mentioned getting big changes got the smallest changes. Praying for Spriest updates
The problem with dungeon leavers right now is that 1) heroics are the only thing to do for some people 2) It's annoying if it takes 5+ minutes to find a replacement tank/healer or you're joining a dungeon with bosses down that you wanted 3) it's fucking HEROIC DUNGEON that'll get replaced soon yet you're inconveniencing people, no matter how little, for what?
"or someone feeling fomo now about to subscribe" ...God damnit lmao
This is the exact same PTR cadence of Dragonflight. There is nothing early about this announcement lol.
the ascendance form is really cool for zanalari trolls/ DS trolls it looks like bwonsamdi a lot, for orcs/ any other shaman race? idk i hope you can glyph back to old form cuz thats a serious flavor switchup
the problem with some tanks going bananas, specially DHs, is that they're so goddamn fast that in a lot of instances you get locked out of a the boss' room, there's no way a hunter or a shadowpriest can catch up to one of those fuckers. It's not about enjoing the dungeon, it's about barely even being able to play, it's the same thing that happened in pandaria remix where if you were grouped up with a roided up character, you weren't playing, you were just cleaning up after them
as a hunter player - you can keep up just fine.
as a priest player as well - good luck keeping up rofl
Always stay ahead of the tank during the fight with a pack, don’t butt pull, don’t get hit by frontals, but as things die, already be ahead of the rest of the group ready for the next pack. Then during the next fight move ahead.
now ive been that dh today, pugged about 30-40 dungeons today, the only boss this ever happened was stone vault the dark(left) corridor twice, once it was a shadow and i think i might have been too fast, the other time was a pala chilling afk at 1st boss for 10s+
now going afk 10s is not a big deal, but at the same time being locked in for 5min ( the whole run didnt take any longer) is also not much to ask.
but overall the players didnt contribute much, i usually did 90+% of the dmg, the current content is def very undertuned, heroics arent m0s of previous expansions like promised, they are just like heroics before
@@sandstorm7476 I mean sure, but am i going to be tanking the 20 mobs i'm going to be running into if i try to stay in front? also to do that you would have to be able to rely on the tank not dying, and the dps not pulling aggro and dying neither of which is a guarantee. 9/10 times you can't get in front, brecause you have to heal from the start or else the tank jsut falls over, because we are talking about shit tanks thinking they are the shit. They just rely on the healer keeping them alive and then just pulling half the dungeon.
What you are saying is very possible and is actually the solution, but mostly only works in organised groups of any description because the tank has to allow you to get in front. If you aren't a monk or druid, good luck.
@@RobotboyX2 Scaling in levelling dungeons pre 80 has beenfucked for several expansions, i was in a group with a lvl 70 frost mage that did 1.2 million dps, just because you are doing 90%+ of the damage at this stage, isn't saying much.
the problem with the dungeon leaving is when it happens 8/10 times for some dungeons.
it literally warns you when your queue pops how far they are boss wise
I have three friends who no-lifed the game from Vanilla through Burning Crusade that haven't touched it since. They came back for TWW and have been enjoying it, definitely the people that these two weeks was meant for.
I see what the jdotb take is, if EVERY class comp can complete a +14, but NO class comp can complete a +15, then every class is viable and theoretically that'd be good. But I think balancing to that extent would be extremely difficult in a game like WoW that has stuff like spell steal, mass dispel, BoP, these very unique class abilities. You would probably end up with an even starker issue where every class can do the 14 like intended, and exactly these 5 classes together can do a +15.
Btw they announced Return to Karazahn a week after Legion launch so they have done that before.
Also y'all are assuming there is only one person leaving after the first boss...it is literally 2-3 people everytime and then the rest leaves as well.
dorkie is also playing a tank, a dps q is 15-20min
it’s so simple lol, if people want to farm the ara trinket make a premade group
The problem with the tanks is they pull everything and when they have everything grouped they don’t get near keeping threat and it completely ruins the experience for the other 4 people
Nah man wall pulling the entire dungeon is faceroll. It’s the morons who dismount and blow their entire load on the mob that you 1 tapped to move. Also people don’t use their CC’s or lust on these omega pulls.
Tank in these faceroll heroics trying to pull big are the only ones with even a single working brain cell.
I do pretty decently high M+ and have mythic raided as a healer, when I join a heroic dungeon I expect to just relax and vibe which is the case in 99% of my heroics, however for your average healer who maybe engages with heroics/M0s as their true end game I can 100% see people complaining that they can't even stop to think it also doesn't help that currently you get some dungeons with really good dps and others you get timmy the no cooldown using sob who eats swirlies like they are cinnamon rolls.
Drat that shirt is sick
36:49 It was never specifically stated as they are not allowd to say word for word as it would be an announcement of classic +. But there is an interview where the SOD dev teams were asked about classic+ and their response was something along the lines of “well why do you think we are doing this” eluding to the fact that SOD is a test bed to see what people like and dislike for classic +
Here is the clip th-cam.com/users/clipUgkxhCLaJUbkhfTsoTN8VWUnSpc3BRUKqWfq?si=lqh07DncPuTs1rs4
I could see them holding off on updates as much as possible to avoid downtime during patch day.
Dorki had a good point at the start, consistent and big changes were a big factor with SoD drop off. Even for casuals having classes massively change in effectiveness is a massive turn off because one day youll be playing a certain way and next day you have to re learn talents and re gear, its not fun and especially for casual players who only play 1 or 2 classes its a massive deal
I agree that the dungeon leavers is a non-issue. Especially because it's only relevant for a short period. And the whole thing should really be considered a design option for Blizzard to fix. For example just add a good end-of-dungeon reward.
But saying that groups instantly fills again is not always true when it's the tank that leaves. I have had multiple dungeon runs now where the tank leaves we have to wait for 5 minutes (again no big deal). Sometimes I have experience the rest of the group leaving after the tank left because they rather just queue for a new dungeon than wait for a new tank.
The heroic leaving is probably going to be mimicked in M0 week considering the reset is daily...
This is why they should distribute loot at the end of the dungeon just like M+
I love y'all, but listening to you three giving your opinions about heroic dungeon leavers is like listening to millionaires saying the public healthcare system is totally fine.
They should rollback drops for leavers such that they would get the lockout but the item would get locked (unusable) until they complete the last boss of the instance. Also make the deserter debuff last 1h and be accountwide. Also if m+ players left mid dungeon before timer has popped ban them from m+ until next reset UNLESS everyone in the party major votes to end the key.
8:10 - YUP I'm playing MM hunter and was SO depressed about the state and feel of it with it's shit hero talents and clunky feel that I rolled FIVE other characters trying to find something that'd feel like my new home until hunter is fixed... only to find out the super sick hero talent I wanted that'd help smooth out rotation and everything EXISTS it just isn't coming until like November?!? bruh... same for my paladin dude lol wtf... at least I have mage and warlock I guess. Priest is fun but scuffed as a healer with no relevant changes coming lol
On the M0 release cycle, while I agree with Max and to me it feels like M0 should be out already.. I also wonder if I'd feel the same way if I hadn't buy early access...
Because by the time the game officially released I already had all my tons leveled up and ready to do max level stuff.. However if I didn't had early access, meaning the game released on a Monday so I can't dedicate as much time I think it would have taken me most of the week to level-up my toons and barely get the weekly stuff done before reset, so I think this week would feel like last week did with initial gearing up and getting my professions going (I'm not big into professions but just getting it going early is nice).. And M0 would be coming out just one week after that.
My daughter Loves follower dungeons and Delves, so far I like the Delves to, buff Rets single target Templar Verdict hits like a marshmallow ❤
I dont think Max knows how many people do title keys. Get ready to play LFG simulator
Delves for healer Priest are much easier than any other class I tryed.
I couldn’t agree more about mixing the different mindsets and groups of people.
Another way for this to have been fixed, would have been to allow different factions to que together. For example, full guild groups. And just for ease of access, wanting to random que together, instead of walking to every dungeon you need.
That alone separated most of my guild because we are different factions. It was just a big L for us and it should have been fixed at launch.
I mean the pod is great but the outro music is what i come back for
ive been 580+ since the first week heroics opened. I've got no real interest in renown - and I've been dicking around with professions but i'd have been better off saving my gold. this has been BRUTAL. at this point I've blasted all my crests of both colors just testing gear and stats out of boredom.
I dislike that dungeon leaving from the view of someone waiting for 20minutes to have a chance for that last item I need, to be placed into a group that already killed that boss. When that happens while in a group it mostly gets filled up fast enough to not care personally.