The Alternate Timeline Iceberg Explained (Part 1)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ค. 2024
- Part 2: • The Alternate Timeline...
Alternate history is the imagining of our world going down a path it didn't in our own timeline. Changes from big and small can have dramatic effects. And also can be fun ways to write stories.
I wanted to talk about the alternate timelines that have been imagined by authors and forum users over books, shows and online threads. And what better way than through an iceberg video.
Special thanks to TreytheExplainer for his help and inspiration.
• The Archaeology Iceber...
Twitter: / althistoryhub
Patreon: / alternatehistoryhub
00:00 Introduction
01:12 Level 1
11:22 Level 2
21:48 Level 3
30:20 Level 4
36:12 Level 5
43:54 Level 6
50:11 Level 7
54:44 Level 8
34:35 "The Mirage" is a 2012 book by Matt Ruff about a united middle east that revolted against the ottomans, basically what if Pan-Arabism happened. they did stuff in ww2 like beheading Hitler at Nuremberg and split Germany in half, one being a Jewish state, and the other a Christian one. this Israel re-conquers a lot of german and is allied with the UAE as its relations with Europe are bad, so it is kinda a "how would you feel" scenario, America is also a destabilized 3rd world region
Don't forget: it also rules hard.
Congrats on the pin
alternate history every body living peace and humans are happy. no wars
@@masternobody1896 as much as that’d be cool, that’s impossible in any kind of timeline… sadness and conflict are inevitable
thats such a great concept, reverse uno card on modern history.
April Fools! On me. The video and runtime are actually real. No joke here. I used April Fools as an excuse to do something different, and have wanted to do an iceberg video for a long time. Enjoy!
An "(thing) iceberg explained" video? what an original idea.
Cool Cody, I'm going to enjoy
This definitely feels like it’s taken awhile to make! It has a feel of videos you posted months ago, glad to see this was given its deserved time!
Holy shit I didn’t notice how long this video was at first
:)
So basically there are three kinds of alternate histories:
1. What if Nazi victory?
2. What if Soviet victory?
3. What if ALIENS?
4.What if Western Stagnation/Middle Eastern progress?
5. What if US never gains Independence?
6. What if Time Travel?
7. What if Neanderthals Stagnation?
4. What if Allied victory but they choke on it.
What if WW2 but quirky.
What if American Civil War/Independence but quirky.
What if Islamic State but quirky.
What if all of the above?
You cannot just pass over “Shakespeare trying to save queen Elizabeth” I need to know how he does it
I guess you’re gonna have to read the book
I wouldn't wanna live in a world where Harry Turtledove didn't write batshit historical fanfiction.
Same.
He basically wrote a scalie x human story like the shit you find on Wattpad
@@BlackHat-qf2bcand it goes hard
Apparently, he put out a large volume to pay off his children college tuition.
@@felixfungle-bung4688based father
>Alternate history theory
"How original"
>What if the Nazis won?
"Daring today aren't we?"
this made me laugh way more than it should have 💀
You pfp looks everyone on a monday morning.
No offense but what's wrong with Alternate History?
@@TankEngine75 id say it’s not alternate history that’s in the wrong, but the stereotypical “what if nazis won” alternate history that’s being made fun of. Alternate history is awesome, but limiting it to such an overdone and frankly boring subject ruins the fun of it
@@ChrellMax ahhhh ok
Imagine an alternative timeline where Harry Turtledove _didn't_ write batshit insane alternative history novels.
His kids end up with massive student loans.
I’m not joking. Apparently, the reason Turtledove churned out so many novels of dubious quality was to pay for his kids’ tuition. I can’t really blame him for valuing his children’s futures over his own artistic credibility.
Huh, TIL
That’s truly the darkest timeline
I don't want to, nay, I refuse to
He became dictator of America and started WW4
I made the flags for the Red World American states under Kaisar before he, unfortunately, passed away. Thank you for, A, featuring Kaiser's last work he was a dedicated mod dev with real passion and a good man. I met two very good friends through his mod team who I still keep in contact. Not to throw shade but from the interactions I had with the successor team, I appreciate their efforts but its not the same and never can be. B, thank you for the ego trip I never thought the flags I made when I was 17 would end up in an alt-history hub video 5 years later.
Hey man, your designs are awesome, RIP to Kaiser though, we truly lost a great modder.
@@thethiccdictator7481 Thank you, the Soviet flag was always my pride and joy though. Even though alot of people hate it.
You did an absolutely beautiful job bro. Red World is one of my most played mods of all time. God Bless you and God bless Tom.
Futurism turning into a political ideology actually has some basis to it, as the real futurism does actually have a political bent to it. The philosophy is basically an outright rejection of nature and embracing of the artificial, rejection and contempt towards weakness and softness or even empathy, and the worship of strength. The Spacer clans from Brigador are an excellent example of a futurist society in fiction, and its exactly as messed up and sociopathic as expected.
So the Mechanicum?
well, to some it's messed up and sociopathic but as always ideologies are followed by many and to them, as these are subjective ideas, are valid ideals to have and morally right. if you don't relate to an idea or have the same moral views that is required of an ideology then you see it as immoral. not defending or accusing anything just talking about it. thanks for your info
:3 🔥🔥🤝 Hitler hated Jewish people, ironically as a Christian. Plenty of Conservatives tried to say he was an Atheist. He was someone following a Jewish rabbi.
A Jewish rabbi whom is unhistorical, unoriginal, has no birth records, no death records, no crucifixion records, at least half of the New Testament is said to be forged, based on mistranslations that were later added in, etc. Thankfully, near-death experience consensus debunks religions and debunked material atheism dogma too.
He also hated Blacks (so much for Ye and his racist-founded debunked conspiracy theories against us Jewish people), biracial, Indians, etc. This was seen in visual evidence, such as video, pictures, in his book he wrote, etc.
I'm Jewish-mixed, and enjoyed this.
So.... Fascism without the "superior race"-ism Basically.
@@ChaffyExpert Well sort of, it is less authoritarian outright and more about "progress at all costs". Futurist art is very cyberpunk-esque (though it was popular before technology got advanced enough to even really think about real cyberpunk universes), and I can imagine that they would operate a quasi-democracy that was much more focused on insanely fast and advanced industrial and technological progress above all else. The futurists would definitely be trying to make cyborgs as early as possible.
I love it when alternative history comes off like fanfics where the writer just pulls whatever historical figure they knew existed at the time and made them do something in the story, like Anna Oakley assassinating Teddy.
Reminded me of that novel set on the world of the _Dark Future_ tabletop RPG were Elvis Presley is a post-apocalyptic law enforcer tasked with protecting the leader of the U.K.'s socialist party: John Lennon
@@Mario_Angel_Medina That is one of the worst things I have ever heard. 😂
I feel like that should be what caused the communist revolution
USSA is a fun read, in it Ed Gien is a socialist party member running a meat packing plant
Hey, you cant deny it still couldve happened! Besides, the way i see it is its more interesting to have it as Abe Lincoln than Johnathan Randon Bass. Dont act like you know who that is, because you just don't. And no i didn't make him up, he existed, though good luck finding him because he did nothing notable with his life whatsoever.
the fact that turtledove isn't confined to one depth of the iceberg is funny. he writes so much alt history fiction that some end up being more esoteric than others
Turtledove is a gem when it comes to alternate history.
@Ira Bouchard he he he ha
The Alt Confederate books sound riveting, tbh
I am now convinced that Harry Turtledove gets high on cocaine, meth, LSD and marijuana, all at the same time, before writing a book or a novel.
@@Retaliatixnnah, he just has a machine that can go to any timeline and he just finds the weirdest accidentally
The Stanislav Petrov one always gets me because it's just so real. The fate of the world rested on one man and he made the right choice.
I tried showing my parents this and they couldn’t quite get why it was interesting, to the point I had to clarify these events were fictional. And they’re like “so they’re interesting lies?” And it was just...so cute
Why tf would you show this to your parents
Lol at that point, ALL of fiction is interesting lies??
Title: The History About Events That Never Happened
To anyone who doesn't have time to sit on their ass all day, it is a waste of time and energy.
Wait, you had to explain to your parents that these were fictional?
@@monolith4653why are you here then
I love how Harry Turtledove’s whole career is basically “Lmfao bro what if…”
I get the distinct feeling that Harry Turtledove really likes alternate history.
And the Confederacy
@@stephenmeier4658 naw he clearly dislikes it. Almost everytime they win in his stories, it backfires. In Guns of the South, the Confederacy fails to uphold their own ideology 💀💀💀
@@stephenmeier4658 surprisingly he actually stans the byzantines the most
what makes you think that
@@themysticautistic5449 his novel “Constantine meets johns Wayne: the south will rise again”
''sadly the creator DIED in a car accident'' that took a dark turn
Ah, but what if he survived the accident thus causing a chain of events in which the USA became a communist superpower that nuked invading aliens from the National Socialist British Empire?
Shit gets really dark in that timeline.
Well at least Red World has a fan fork. When you start up the mod it has an in-game event that commemorates the creator of it.
The Race progressing at a super slow is a very interesting scifi concept, I wanna see more stuff like that.
In a way it's comparable to the relationship between the Tau and the Imperium in Warhammer. The Imperium are so incredibly stagnant that they've gone backwards in the tech tree over the course of a 10000 years, meanwhile the Tau advance at a terrifying pace (in 6000 years going from cavemen to having spaceships and mechs)
Petrov seriously needs more attention. The man literally stopped WW3 all on his own. 1 single man. 1 random Soviet soldier. Saved the entire world. He deserves a statue in both America and Russia.
Idk about all that maybe 1 statue lol
I agree.
EmpLemon did not make a whole ass video about Petrov for you to say that
yeah the moment i heard him say in this timeline Petrov didnt show up for work my blood pressure went up and my body hairs stood on end. Anyone who knows the name Stanislav Petrov knows what was at stake that day.
There were some other people who did this too. For example on a russian submarine near american coast everyone thought that WW3 have already borken out, but one of 3 officers there refused to activate warheads (forgot his name)
You know, this video made me realize how much of alternate history is so centerer in america or WW2. I'd be nice seeing more works based in other places and times, kinda like what cody does.
Honestly most people that don't really know a lot about history only know how to make comparisons to WWII and maybe the Roman Empire.
@@mallow2902 It's also one of the closer events in time. The further you go back in time the harder it is to predict events.
US being the major power it is and arguably the real winner of the cold war, just has a bigger hold in humanity's fate
And knowing they're not shy (or at least wheren't) about quenching political movements in other countries. Nothing could really change without the US being involved or at least not nearly as much
@@dubuyajay9964 tried my hand in writting a ASB ISOT Constantinople, your correct on this. It's honestly exhausting the amount of research needed to properly write out everything. The amount of small inovations that are super useful but just aren't well known, foreign figures that are basically the Washingtons or Mr. Sun's for other countries, cultural values, how conflicts in each time actually work, the geography. Thats not even mentioning just writting all this itself is a challenge.
@@pergys6991 ASB ISOT?
As an avid KSP player, the mere mention of Eyes Turned Skywards made my day. There's a pretty big player base on the KSP forums that replicate the rockets and missions covered in this timeline and a bunch of great mod support by some talented artists and modelers.
take a shot every time the Nazis win WW2
Are you trying to kill us
mY LiVEr
I kind of like the idea of humans and lizard aliens settling their differences by sharing a love of getting really, really high.
Maybe the real reason aliens invaded our world was to get our drugs.
In this alternate timeline, the human race sends one man to stop the aliens: Joseph Rogan. With one line "Have you tried DMT?" he single-handedly saved humanity from destruction.
@@DOMDZ90911 JSKSJSKAJA
@@jonathanathor117 nah that space stuff would be 1000x better just looking at it will make you high af
And their females.
Honestly this entire iceberg made me start thinking about how interesting alternate history can be when done, if not good, just kind of well thought out and elaborated on in an interesting way
the thing is that most of these ideas are repetitive (nazis win) and the only fun ones are usually done badly (sky people) and you can even hear Cody get more and more frustrated as the video continues lol
@@ahmadayyob6802 I like one of the last one where a more extremist Presidential candidate simply wins and vastly changes the outlook of the USA and thus the world, lord knows we've had a lot of them (just recently like Mitt Romney or Bernie Sanders)
@@pdraggy Didn't know Mitt Romney was more rightist than most (I am not usonian)
@@driveasandwich6734 Maybe not as right wing as he is conservative IMO. My brother can probably define right wing better than me, I'm not too well versed in political drama :) but he considers Romney one of the worst Rep candidates in his lifetime (30 short years xD he a baby) I have no idea, he was like 16 when Romney ran for Pres but... w/e
@@pdraggy I see. Thanks for the insight!
As a person who’s into history I always think about what if things didn’t happen this way so this video was super neat
I agree
This is your best series. I love listening to this. I use it to help me study, in fact it helped me pass my Psychology Statistics exam
“Alec Guinness plays the Third Doctor instead of Obi-Wan Kenobi”
The funny thing is that since the Third Doctor’s run ended in 1974 it wouldn’t have conflicted at all
Presumably Alec Guinness stays a couple of years longer as the 3rd doctor than Pertwee.
Somehow, the timelines with aliens seem more realistic than the one in which Germany nearly wins with Himmler in charge.
That one feels like it might have been written by a neonazi.
Yeah it sounds like a fanfic about "Starscream is a better leader than Megatron"
This is the sort of thing a moron would say.
as if himmler of all people would be in any way capable of anything accomplished. that asshole was at least as crazy as the his fuhrer, but with more magic bullshit.
Actually if Himmler was hands off and let people like Manstein, Rundstedt, Ritter von Leeb, Galland and Doenitz do their job and its not that unreasonable. I don't know as it would work in 1944 but it certainly would have had an effect between mid 1941/42. Just Hitler not declaring war on Inbredistan would probably be enough to finish the allies off.
The problem is any change you make causes subsequent changes because the same person in a slightly different situation will possibly make very very different decisions.
Even though the story winds up being absolutely crazy, I love the alt history stories where modern day tech and/or people somehow get instantly teleported to some point in the past, idk why I guess it's just funny to me
yeah thats the main aspect of time travel and many alt history fics that appeal to me.
kaiserreich is easily my favorite, Just a strategy game mod blowing up to this extent, but what makes it so good is how detailed it is, it goes into details of every country in the war after germans victory in the weltkrieg, honestly kudos to the mod developers going into such detail for this mod
I was obsessed with Harry Turtledove’s alien invasion series. Underdog warfare, working with your enemies, and just the cultural differences of this lizard race. One of my favorite little things in that series is the humans reverse engineering integrated circuits from the aliens and using them to create essentially tickle me Elmo, and the aliens basically saying “Why would you make this?”
They drag on in some books but it's a very good series
I read part of this series with my Dad when I was about 12. I loved the books. Could never remember what they were called, can't ask Dad because he's passed on, but when I read this comment it just clicked. Thank you. Maybe 20 years on I'll enjoy the books more :)
@@billos3218 I am sorry about your father. It is the inevitable end of all of us, but I know it must have hurt for you.
I dont even know how many times I re-read that series and several fanfics about it, like crossovers with Larry Niven's Footfall or Star Gate.
The vast cultural differences between the species and the human plasticity and ability to be duplicitous- shown to be survival traits...really interesting cultural-genetic insight.
Gotta say the "what if NASA stuck to using Rockets and perfected the technology?" honestly sounds the most interesting out of all of these just because it's an honestly unique question that I hadn't thought of until it was mentioned.
Which level was that on?
@@xXPappeRPlanEzzXx the first one in 6
I bet they do the Apollo Venus mission.
@@dragoninthewest1 that's just 1st degree murder with extra steps
Man, we could have been all in space by now or at least have terraformed mars and venus and maybe titan.
I like the alt history that focuses in on the characters. It leaves a lot to the reader's imagination and interpretation. It also leaves the writer not having to explain every detail and open themselves to contradictions.
I love the last one, it's a simple change that is plausible, and that changes the history of a continent heavily.
hey althistoryhub i am a dev for red world. i wanted to let you know that the Red World mod has been revived and we even updated it recently to be compatible with the latest hoi4 update. we also added trees for the great lakes and yemen which goes through a civil war. now we are focusing on releasing kaisers planned update, which was about a soviet rework (and ssrs) and german and canadian trees, we also are working on spanish content, also note the APC is nbot pro-soviet the UAPR. the APC is led by revolutionary socialists which are basically trotskyists/syndycalists/titoists etc and they oppose the USSR.
Why don’t you get the mod operational on the latest update before trying to get alt history hub to review your mod it’s just a bad look
@@Maddenhighlights882 the fan fork released in 2020. I assume althosthub just didn't know of the fan forks existence
Ah nice. Good to hear the work continues. Always a sad day when a mod dies.
that makes sense, i was weirded out when i heard that Noam Chomsky of all people allied with the ussr
For people who don't play the game, "trees" refers to a mindmap of different national focuses that the player decides to go down. There is one clearly laid out path for making a country fascist, and another for making it communist, and so on. The game revolves around those "focus trees" which allow the player to steer a nation down an alternative history. "Alright, I press this button and in 70 days this person will be assassinated... and then I press this person to supply a fringe faction... and continue down this path and I'll ignite a civil war, which will then allow me to insert this person as a dictator of the country, which allows me to then make this country join the Axis powers in WW2..." and so on and so on.
It surprises me that Kaiserreich is so deep on this list. It doesn’t feel obscure. There’s also Kaiserredux.
I enjoy playing a Eurasia game myself. You can really impact the world.
Sometimes go mad with Lovecraft, Sun Ra or OAË Austria.
Yeah, I’m pretty sure it’s the most well known of all the hoi4 alternate history mods
@@jamiesmith3396 one of the top mods, like TNO. Its fun to play that game, from Long Dong rise in Paraguay, to *H P L O V E C R A F T I A N N E W E N G L A N D*
Well, to be fair, playing Hoi4 puts you in a rather niche category to begin with.
@@VelociraptorsOfSkyrim yeah but TNO was relatively high on the list.
@@purpledevilr7463 Fair enough.
good work!
it is very entertaining and funny as well, I had some good laughs!
Thank you very much :)
"I like to imagine that Harry Turtledove is a real life Time Traveler"
11:35 WOOW, I'm there on the list!!! Thanks Cody for the recognition, I did a lot of work to re-kickstart the interest momentum in the timeline after a long creative hiatus so giving us publicity is super cool of you.
That's cool. What made you think of the idea?
Hey that's so cool. I'm also on that list; Mal3ssio97
@@USSCYT As much as I would have loved to have been among those that started the thing, i'm more of a late contributor so I couldn't tell precisely what gave the idea to the pioneers that came before me. But I definitely can assume based on what I've seen that it was done by enthusiasm for this incident based on how major yet unknown it was in the public mind, I also think its fair to say people got tired on how WW2 was everywhere in the alternative history universe so we wanted to do something different and unique. When I joined in 2017, the timeline was dead and frozen in time, people had moved on even if there was still work left to do. So I started participating and soon, people moved back to the timeline, including new users like Mal3ssio97 that also replied here. In fact, did you saw that South American Confederation flag? it's a brand new one of last year that replaced the older one in use since the beginning! A "remaster" of our timeline is being written as we speak right now! Hope you'll get to read our work or even contribute (our timeline is strict in term of realism however).
-SigmaHero045
Easily 90% of these alternative worlds look like a logistical hell with so many things that would just no work
Nitpicking
actually, considering how important logistics are to everyday life, wars and conquests and trade, it's the most overlooked part of those stories
@@larryfoulkeofficial8609 not at all, a good portion of these are simply ridiculous
@@victory7302
If you want a good alt history where the Nazin won, for a while.
Look at A4 or Anglo-Nazi war
Damn the Al Capone being Stalin actually makes a tiny bit of sense considering Stalin was a gangster for the Bolshevik’s in their formative years.
Axis victory WWII is the least creative basis for alternate history. I know nothing about this, and that's an obvious route to me. Not to say that it couldn't be interesting, just that it's not too imaginative on its own.
You know, one big problem I have with a lot of these alternate histories is that they place very little value on the relationships countries have with each other, especially in trade. Like in some of these, all of the United States could be destroyed, and world events would just be the exact same, just with the US part crossed out.
Or the industrial revolution never happens in Britain, but all the other countries somehow advance at the exact same pace as our timeline.
Eh! That's stuff's confusing & hurt's your brain to sort out. You're not wrong, but that's why people don't tend to send much time figuring out that aspect. What we really need is for historians who know there stuff forwards & back to write alternate history stories. Then those aspects would be addressed.
@@crazypeopleonsunday7864 facts
That's too complicated and hurts the writer/reader's brain. Also, consider that many alternate histories are mild wish fulfillment; like "If this country didn't exist, the world would be worse off, which 'proves' that the world 'needed' this country (if they like the country) or the world would be much better off (if they hate the country)."
@@Usammityduzntafraidofanythin Sometimes, too, people just want to see the world a certain way in a piece of fiction, so they're like "Well, what point in history can I change to make this world come about?" Zum Beispiel, the What If...? episode "What If... Thor was an Only Child" is as concerned so much with how Loki not being in Thor's life as a brother would effect the MCU, but rather with making a house party comedy "movie" using Marvel characters, so they used the format of the What If...? show to accomplish that goal.
This is so good👏🏼 yet densily informative that I need to slow down while watching it. Thanks God there's a second part 🙏🏼
I discovered this video at 2 am I was just sitting at my desk in my phone browsing TH-cam and decided to click on it. For the next 1 hour I watched a greatly made video witch made me think about things, this happens to me quite a lot sense I love history, politics, economics, ideologies the innovation and advancement of technology different sciences and society in general and so many things I can talk about like I am just so jnterested ans while taking alternative history not too serious its always nice to look at something in an analytical way to add more to your worldview. I wish very much I could talk to someone about all of these things. Thank you so much that you make good quality content and thanks to everyone who watched and will maybe read my comment it's good to see actual good things in a time that we are in.
Never in my life would I ever expect to see a *One Hour AltHistHub video.* Thank you, Cody. This is greater than any Christmas gift I ever couldve gotten.
HOLY F#CK YES YES YES THIS IS BETTER THAN A 4 HOUR IN SPACE WITH MARIKIPLIER LIVE STREAM. im not a bought mr devil. Have a nice day, i to am cumming F#CK WHOOOO.
Same, I’m so happy
@THIS will shut up bot
1 hour of destroying a fun meme
@@snackoman1577 what do you mean? Alt history is not a meme? Or really icebergs its just a trend like top 10s but in my opinion better xD
32:33 Regarding Futurism; it was an art movement, but it was obsessed with modern technology, especially weapons of war. When WW1 broke out a lot of futurists got really excited and saw the war as a vindication of their ideology and a chance to destroy the old world to make way for modernity. You'll also notice that futurism didn't really continue after WW1. That's because a lot of Futurists died in WW1. It's one of the great "well, duh"'s of history.
But yeah, I could see Futurists try to take over Europe. They already tried it once. If they hadn't all gotten themselves killed they probably would have been more successful as an art movement.
More than that, it was fanatically opposed to anything of "the old way of life". This "out with the old, in with the new" mentality on steroids is why movement and the wonders of technology are prominent in their works, many became fans of Benito Mussolini for some reason. It wasn't just in the arts, but society at large.
Futurism was an explicitly political movement. Marinetti, the founder of futurism, wrote several political manifestos, kicked people from his movement for being apolitical, and declared that art, society, and politics were inherently intertwined. He also founded a political party that eventually merged with the Italian fascists.
@@Game_Hero Mussolini and his Fascists were initially fairly futurist in their ideology AFAIK
Wondering why always art students are going crazy? Futurists, Hitler, Bob Ross...
Isn't that what inspired the Cultural Revolution?
Keep up the great stuff
Overall, well done, lad! Well done! About to start the second edition!
I'm a writer for Reds, and I'm glad we were even mentioned. Thanks!
Although how the fuck are we more well-known than Kaiserreich?
I'm a fellow writer on reds and the author of A Golden Island to the West which was also shown on the iceberg. Thanks for the shoutout to Reds.
Whoever wrote this iceberg needs to get their heads checked on Kaiserreich.
I feel like this iceberg isn't much about "How known they are" as rather "How crazy they are"
@@Hungeryan, I came to the same conclusion after the last video too.
Im convinced Harry Turtledove was just a 10 year old boy with excellent writing skills
Man singlehandedly carried the genre for a good bit
Yeah, he's like the master of alternate history...well, mostly American judging from the books mentioned in this list.
Guy could use a refresher on history. Some of his ideas are couched in some severe misunderstandings of what actually happened.
@Eroshap98 i have yet to read any story that was made better by the writer explaining a sex scene to me.
Quite possibly. He did do good alternative history even with some of his premises being meh.
The current trend is to describe to in deep detail the rain from 3 perspectives and explain in detail the design and coolness of gun cotton. See the destroyermen
I don't know, how many times I've watched this masterpiece of a video. Thx.
An absolutely amazing 👏 and informative video.
You can see the influence of Orwell's 1984 in so many of these stories.
1984 sucks
Nah its a work of art.
@@alext399
Just like 90% of this alternative universes, it’s just the usual
@@burnitdown5828 compared to other dystopian novels like Fahrenheit 451, it’s not that great.
Ah, Orwell... the guy nobody on the left actually likes and always say his writing is preachy and his fiction window-dressing to his positions... until anti-leftists start claiming him and everyone goes crazy stepping over themselves on how much they love him and he rocks and his positions and theirs are totally alike.
(Just on a note, I do like Orwell, he is not the best dystopian or fable writer but his less talked about now remaining work is pretty stylistically well-done and of thematic interest. The fictional, characters, etc. part of"1984" is less interesting that "Fahrenheit 451" 's and such, but he sure creates a world well for a writer not famous for his scifi and raises some interesting points and some characterisation touches are interesting.)
Mixing the iceberg concept with alternate history is actually really good
Agreed, it definitely works well
Bro, as a history buff this is like to crack to me. I'm Irish and personally the idea of alternate Irish history is something that really interests me. My personal favourite theory is what if the 1798 rebellion was a success, changing Irish gun culture forever, making Ireland the biggest arms dealers in the world.
So cool to see my Spyro skybox recolor at the start of the video! 😄
'Reds!' is my personal favorite. Extremely well-written, and it goes out of its way to explain its timeline outside of the cliche'd "For Want Of A Nail" type scenarios. The writers actually went back and added more differences to the timeline in order to justify its divergence.
I did not expect to ever see this mentioned outside of the alternate history forum
I discovered the series through tv tropes
The creator is actually rebooting the series as we speak. Seems really interesting, probably also might dial back on the brutality. It also has it’s own version of Hamilton about Emma Goldman
I find it hilarious how Danny DeVito becomes general secretary of the Communist Labor Party
@@Cheesesteaks4Life98 “We’re really falling behind the polls in the California SR midterms! Comrade General-Secretary: what should we do?!”
“Can I offer you an egg in this trying time?”
1:17 The Man in the High Castle (Axis win WW2)
2:52 The Years of Rice and Salt (Black Death kills 90% of Europe)
5:01 The two Georges (No US independence)
6:38 Fatherland (Germany wins WW2, cold war with the US)
7:44 The Yiddish Policimen's Union (US makes a jewish land in Alaska)
8:48 Fallout (nuclear retro society, nuclear war happens in 2077)
10:13 Plot Against America (Lindenberg wins the ellection, the nazis try get him on their side)
11:26 1983: Doomsday (nuclear WW3 in the 80's)
13:59 For want a Nail (UK wins the american revolution)
16:22 Southern Victory (Condeferates win the Civil War)
18:34 WorldWar (Aliens invade Earth during WW2)
20:08 Axis of Time (US fleet send back to 1942)
21:16 Wolfenstein The New Order (Nazis win WW2 through super science)
21:52 The Peshawar Lancers (New ice age in the North hemisphere)
23:35 1632 (a West Virginian town is send to the HRE)
24:15 III Bethisad (stronger Roman Empire, steampunk world)
24:58 The Draka (super powered South Africa)
26:46 The New Order - The Last Days of Europe (Axis barely win WW2)
28:25 Ruled Britania (Spain conquers England)
29:07 Himmler's War (Hitler dies and Himmler takes his place)
29:49 World In Conflict (Soviet Union invades the US)
30:24 Decisive Darkness (Japan don't surrender after the nukes)
31:28 Red Flood (No one wins WW2)
33:16 Back in the USSA (Communist US)
34:35 The Mirage (no idea lol)
34:54 Lion's Blood (Europe colonised by the islamic world)
35:37 The Sky People (Venus and Mars are inhabitated)
36:20 A Giant sucking sound (Ross Perot wins in 1992)
37:41 Anglo/American-Nazi War (Germany beats the USSR, war extends to 1960)
38:20 Reds! (Communist US)
39:31 For All Time (Worst case scenario in WW2)
41:50 Blue Skies in Camelot (Marilyn Monroe never die)
43:05 Atlantis (Atlantis exist)
44:01 Eyes Turned Skywards (NASA keeps the Saturn designs)
45:16 A Rebel in Time (Time travelers trying to change the Civil War)
45:41 West of Eden (Dinossaurs survive)
47:10 Malê Rising (Islamic slave revolt suceeds in Brazil)
48:14 The Chaos Timeline (No Genghis Khan)
49:22 Moonlight in a Jar (Al Andalus survive)
50:17 1901 (US and Imperial Germany goes to war)
51:08 The guns of the South (White supermacists help the Confederates)
52:07 A World of Difference (liveable Mars)
53:21 The Neanderthal Parallax (Neanderthals govern the war)
54:53 Fear, Loathing and Gumbo on the Cmpaign Trail '72 (Nixon wins in 72)
55:42 Red World (USSR wins the cold war)
57:30 Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg (Germany wins WW1)
59:58 Xvras Wyzryn (Stronger USSR, nuclear war between the soviets and Europe)
1:01:29 A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court (Self explanatory)
1:02:25 Land of Red and Gold (Better crops in Australia, stronger Aboriginal Australians civilization)
you are a hero. i love you. ive been looking for a comment like this all day
What If... existed more comments like this? Thanks, this is a true contribution.
Thx was tired of ww2 boring shit
@@floydeus
WW2 is one of the most important events in history. The outcome of WW2 is why the world is fucked today.
@@sayckeone ww2 is overrated i dont like modern wars im more into old stuff without guns
The man in the high castle is a great series on alternate history- which is referenced in the first point in this video. Worth a watch.
Ww2 was a major pivotal moment in human history where events could've gone differently if we never got involved
Fallout has really two major things that need to happen:
1. The post-war technological fascination focuses on nuclear research over computing, likely through Britain never quite figuring out Enigma
2. Chernobyl never happens, preventing the nuclear backlash we saw in our timeline
The nuclear backlash existed before Chernobyl, because of Hiroshima
And also because of coal and fuel lobby that financed the whole antinuclear movement.
I think the nuclear backlash started gaining traction when a professional golfer who loved to consume radium lost his jaw.
That kinda thing tends to turn heads.
Of course, the situation would be hard to implement in Fallout because everyone already knows how dangerous radiation is and they still consume the stuff, so it's moot.
The biggest thing that needs to happen in Fallout is to clean the damn cities.
Seriously, it's been centuries: Why does everything look like the bombs fell last week?
@@Melty-K Not quite, while yes people were afraid of nuclear missiles. The majority of the public still showed favorable attitudes towards nuclear energy. I believe in 1977 a poll was taken that showed that over 60% of Americans favored nuclear energy.
The big kicker was the 3-mile island incident. While it was a near-meltdown, nothing drastic came of it. Yet, this freaked out the population about what *could* happen. Top that with the Chernobyl incident in 1986 which is now used as a worst-case scenario despite the fact that the operators in charge were doing numerous amounts of illegal tests, putting the final nail in the coffin for nuclear energy in the US.
So in the span of a decade, support went from ~60% in favor to 78% opposed.
I understand why, but I'm really disappointed that so much of the iceberg was "scary Russians" and "what if WWII was different", though that was finally letting up towards the end. Really looking forward to part 2 and the wackier half of the iceberg! IMO, the most interesting alternate histories aren't solely focused on one war or Europe/America, but events that would make our modern world completely unrecognizable (excluding the alien ones, which is fun but pretty silly and doesn't really teach anything).
He did go from popular to niche so that’s why this one was mostly about world war 2.
Edit: and scary Russians. He didn’t list by most interesting which is very subjective.
@@IIDEADBIRDII I already said I understand why it's like that. It's just disappointing that so many are so samey. It's not his fault that people are obsessed with WWII. Excited for parts 2 and 3 for the weird and wacky creativity
@@jodiegarner791 I didn’t say you didn’t understand why he did it. It’s just that majority of the genre seems to go for realistic so that’s why we don’t really get many alien works.
@@IIDEADBIRDII Aliens? Those tend to be pretty dumb. That's not what I was looking for. But out of all of human history, there are a lot more interesting and diverse options than hyperfixating on WWII and Russia. Acknowledging that is hardly unrealistic.
I fully agree!!! Right now I'm working on an alt history story about if Y2K actually happened. The idea behind it is that for a short while, the US Government is basically shut down, and extremists from both sides attempt to take over, with Fascist Extremists taking over DC. Before they can really spread their influence, a Coalition of sorts is formed by the richest in the former US in which they hire a private army to take out the extremists and out this small group of rich men in power, creating an Oligarchy with a focus on industry and technology. This leads to the rich menleaving industry and technology unrestricted by law, which allows corporations to spread so large and so wide that some end up taking over whole cities, turning them into markets, factories, or entirely new cities entirely made up of products from that corporation. Then due to the restrictions on industry being taken down, the increased usage of oil and fossil fuels in the mass production of products, as well as the worsened issue of trash pollution, leads to significantly worse climate change. Areas we see as forests become deserts, oceans become landfills, and much of the earth is swallowed by the ocean. I have some kinks to work out but I love this whole alt universe I'm working on and can't wait to work on personal projects within this universe. It's a lot more unique than "What if Germany/Communism won?"
If you upload an hour plus review of every one of these timelines I WILL listen to all of them more than a few times
All of this is fascinating. I want to watch/read/play all of this
Why do alternate history authors largely focus on either A: the second world war, or B: wacky time travel shenanigans. I wanna see the ramifications of an alternate Peloponnesian War, in which the Sicilian expedition succeeds, leading to victory for Athens and her empire. I also wanna see the outcome of an alternate Bay of Pigs invasion, in which air support is approved for the invading Cubans.
The current world order with its international institutions and laws is largely based on WW2. Go further back in history and the butterfly effect leads to unpredictable results.
I don't get why almost every single one revolves around socialism or shames capitalism.
@@techpriestalex8730 nobody likes capitalism
I don't get why alot of alternative history focus on war or time travel, I wanna see something that doesn't involve war and time travel, maybe Alternate History on "What if Nikola Tesla was the successful inventor while Edison was the failing one?'
@@TankEngine75 Nikola Tesla was the successful inventor, Edison was the successful thief of intellectual property.
I looked at the iceberg and I wondered why Temeraire wasn't included. It's a story about the Napelonic wars, but one in which sentient dragons exist and are used in areial combat with crews on them like a battleship. They even have carriers for these dragons so that they can be taken across an ocean.
temeraire slaps so hard
I've never heard of this, but is sounds amazing.
Yoooo, i read those in high school and they were awesome!
Yeah, My brother gushes about Temeraire a lot. I tried starting it 2 times but it just isnt the kind of story im interested in. Too much politics and sudden meaningless death. Which of course, is also what makes it great since both those things where huge parts of the Napoleonic era.
I think my favorite part about Temerare though is how China is an utter powerhouse because they accepted dragons into their society much earlier than the rest of the world, and have the strongest breeds of dragons as a result. And dragons are revered there and walk among humans in the streets where as in Europe they a feared and kept far away from civilization to the point where only riders know/ accept dragons as sapient beings. Even Laurence, the MC, an educated navy Captain and abolitionist had no idea that dragons where people. And as a navy man he interacted with dragons far more often then most.
Its a very interesting setting which i like a ton even though the plot is too slow and grim for me.
because this iceberg is filled with essentially the same alternate story, lots of really cool unique ones are missing :(
Best case scenarios sound odd, but they are as valid as any other alternate scenarios. So glad to hear about them!
Harry Turtledove’s stories sound like the feverish philosophical/theoretical/random ramblings me and my friends would have at 3 A.M.
As an Australian I got to read the Lands of Red and Gold and I believe it was one of the first stories to capture my interest in alternate history!
I've got to read that book as a fellow Australian
as a fellow aussie i havent read it, but it sounds like an interesting premise. Honestly, it would be interesting to see how it would impact 1600+ SEA politics as a whole.
I love it how 95% of these just have alternate versions of eachother, most of which are on this list.
maybe the real alternate history were the friends we made along the way
These are so cool, it really makes you think
As more of a fantasy reader, I’m sad the Temeraire series by Naomi Novik did not merit a mention. For those unfamiliar, it’s essentially the Napoleonic Wars but with dragons.
Same. And in that world, Tecumseh becomes the president of the United States because, well... the natives have dragons and understand them more than the British and French did in that series.
One of my favourite book series of all time. Temeraire is a dragon I would be happy to call my friend.
🐲🐉
I got to check this series out
I'm going to have to check that out, it sounds rad
+1 for Temeraire. Haven't read all of them, I think, but they're mostly upwards of interesting. It's kinda "How to train your Dragon", except Napoleonic.
At least the first two were well worth reading.
Its just the first part dont worry
There was an alternate timeline fan fic of Turtledove's world war series called World War: War of Equals where it due to the Race's invasion being delayed by a small upgrade that took 70 years to complete it resulted in the invasion taking place in the 21st century instead of the 1940's.
I read it, it is interesting premise
I read it, it was fun.
Link?
It’s on the ice berg so maybe we’ll see it next video
I can't help but think that the Race would just choose not to invade in that case, since at that point the human warfighting tech would be arguably more powerful than the Race's equivalent. It would help that the Race most wanted the Global South... landings in the Great Plains and eastern Europe would be a _bit_ more contested than Turtledove's timeline.
Thanx for posting 👍🙂🐻
Man I love falling asleep with these videos 😍😍😍
Hi, regarding Red World, there is some inaccurate lore in the video, namely Montana and the APC. While the creator died, there's a fanfork mod aiming to recreate the rest of Kaiser1871's plans that I help dev for. Your videos helped inspire me throughout high school and I probably wouldn't be doing this without your work. We really appreciate the shoutout in the video and it be really cool to see a standalone video on Red World.
Cool but he probably won't see your comment unfortunately. I would love to see a video on red world sounds lit fam
Good luck with your project! You are inspiring!
Glad to see that his work is still being done even after his dead
So I'm the writer of Moonlight in a Jar.
It's nice to get a mention. Thanks. Genuinely flattered.
Your welcome bro. I'm the creator of the iceberg that Cody is using right now.
Mission impossible: Find AH that has nothing to do with WWI or WWII
This quickly became a list of books I need to read
57:25 rest in peace bro. 😥
I look up to you guys so much! HistoryTube is a better place for you guys doing what you do!
should i skip school for youtube video making? i making good stuff but i need much time to making. maybe replace school with making videos. i have two girlfriends. thanks for your opinion dear mit
@@AxxLAfriku no
Your stuff isn't half bad either man!
HisTube even? Lol
@@AxxLAfriku what a way to advertise lol
Ok but honestly the most interesting part of any "what if the axis won ww2" scenario is just how exactly they won the war
Love your vids
Kinda expected to see "Zhirinovsky's Russian Empire" in here, Kaiserreich's position was pretty unexpected tbh. Though glad Decisive Darkness and Rumsfeldia one are here!
I was actually gonna put it on the iceberg actually.
@@emperorfanta364 maybe it’ll be in part two
It's lower down
@@emperorfanta364 would've been amazing, I love how well-written is that TL
@@skvt5167 It will be surely featured in Part 2 of this Iceberg.
Oh my god, you used my iceberg chart. Fucking makes me absolutely happy! Thank you so much Cody legit seriously I been watching you for years since 2013.
Based
So maybe _you_ can explain what sort of metric determines depth? Because it certainly isn't obvious.
I own 9 of these books/series of books, mostly by Harry Turtledove.
Hopefully Roma Eterna(?) is on the next list. Don't know if Clan Of The Cave Bear would be considered alternative history, but it would be good to see that too.
Ugh.... Clan of the Cave Bear...
There's nothing like brutal caveman rape, I guess...?
Watching this make me thank God im in the good timeline compared to other timelines
Are you sure about that though?
I'm so glad this isn't an April Fool's video. This format from Cody is a dream come true
a few things that I noticed from this:
1: there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of effort in actually making sure events make sense, instead, it seems to be the goal to fit in as many real events as possible.
2: if you want to know a person's philosophy, have them write an alternate history.
I love how in half of these the Mormons are doing some random batshit thing
Can someone please tell me what the background music around 7:15 is called? Theres no credits in the description, no comment i could find, and ive used all the music finding apps i could, and theres no results. It's so soothing and relaxing and it would make my day if i could listen to it. :)
28:38 i have no idea whether or not this extended period of silence was intentional or not, but it has me rolling regardless and i dont know why
33:00 Holy shit, Al Cappone as the US version of Stalin. That's such a great idea, and it's an excellent way to describe the kind of person Joseph Stalin was!
that’s actually a pretty interesting story point, Al Capone being a politician
This was în Legends of Tommorow
@@alext399 and it is based in some realism. Al Capone liked to portray himself as the people’s man; he opened up soup kitchens during the Great Depression, for example. What better way of being the peoples man than becoming the leader of the only major socialist country in the world?
The ending of A Connecticut Yankee is incredibly hard-core, especially when you consider when it was written.
Funny to see that in many of these alternate timelines, Switzerland stays the same despite being in the middle of conflicts
I've always loved the focus that some Alternative History gives Australia. Not only because I live there, but also because its such a untapped world that's unlike what most people understand. An alternative history about how Jack Lang, NSW Premier after WWI, could've started a civil war; an alternative scenario where American left Australia alone during the 70s, allowing for more autonomy, and thus the earliest country to develop more as a country under Gough Whitlam, and become a modern day powerhouse, on the level of that of Japan in terms of economic power, and the resources that of America; or, as you highlighted in the video, what if the Aboriginal People had found their own crop equivalent to rice, and developed their society much like the rest of the world did.
Australia has so many branches of history that could've made the country HEAVILY different, and I think they're opportunities that you could explore easily.
If civil war were to happen it would’ve most likely been in 1932 when Lang was sacked as Premier, not post WWII. Also yeah ‘Goth’ Whitlam sounds like a pretty interesting but cursed timeline
What if there’s a deadly virus that kills most of the people of European origin and somehow hops passed First Australians? In that crazy alternative there is a civil war in which those of pale descent don’t fare to well.
You could even extend it to the rest of the planet, with Britain trying to intervene only to spread the virus and the outcome, well only the limits of the imagination could hold you back. What do you think? I
@@leggera1 Post WWI, my bad.
yeah we are an untapped source
I'd love to read a book by an Aboriginal author about an alternate history in which the Aborignal people were able to resist the European colonisation attempts. What a different place the continent would be - because I'm sure it wouldn't evolve into a single country. Mind you, I'd also love to see the same from an indigenous author of any colonised culture - what if India was able to resist the British, what if the Aztecs or Inca were able to resist the Spanish, what if a coalition of Native American or sub-Saharan African peoples were able to resist the entirety of Europe, what if the Celts were able to resist the Saxons, any non-Han Chinese resist the Han, etc etc etc. Lots of very very different alternate histories for those regions.
You know, a question just popped into my head.
Does Stargate technically count as Alternate History, since humans have unknowingly had contact with Aliens since Ancient Egypt?
I would say yes.
Who says that didn't already happen and the real governments are keeping it quiet like in the show? It's an interesting question but is kinda like considering the MCU, James Bond, Harry Potter, or Jurassic Park as an alternate universe, it all ultimately depends on where you yourself draw the line on what is an alternate world and what is simply fiction.
I'll allow it
@@mandalorian_guy Fair enough.
I suppose Stargate probably straddles the line a bit, it changes history by saying that all Mythology (Even implying religions still in practice today) are all true, but are misremembered as gods and stuff. Even King Arthur and the round table.
Tho they are unclear on whether the Gods came first and the Aliens started to masquerade as them or the aliens came first.
@@VelociraptorsOfSkyrim SG1 does mention a couple times that the Gould took the roles of the existing deities.
Genuinely the reason I play Hoi4. I Iove alternate history. Just started playing it recently but I've already done runs where New Zealand reunited the Māori people and now I'm doing the Swedish Empire 2, electric boogaloo
@36:36 _"Can I finish? Can I finish?"_
Why yes, Ross, you can, if you'll just step into this alternate universe..!