All these so called “autistic traits in mice” just sound like a poor lil mouse under extreme stress. As someone whose special interest is mice ( and knows a lot about them and owns a few ) , this study is simply messed up and not okay…for multiple reasons. why can’t they just let autistic people be, as well as just let mice be :(
not defending this study, but aren't autistic traits in humans also like people under extreme stress? they get cranky over sensations they don't like, they can't handle things not going to plan, etc.
@@alficiro3238 we do not get “cranky” from stimuli we can’t handle. For me, it’s extremely excruciating - not just “stress”. I would also say to try avoid using the word “cranky” to describe the extreme overwhelm and pain , sensations may cause. And the struggle to handle situations not going to plan is a result of the lack of cognitive flexibility ( an executive function ). Overall, autism is a neurodevelopmental disability - not just being under “ extreme stress “ , I hope this helps 🐁
@@finnmelville I did not mean to demean the experience of autistic people and realize that "cranky" is the wrong word to use. but while autism is more complicated than just being under extreme stress, I do still find the similarities (such as increased sensitivity and loss of executive function) very interesting; it's as if autistic people are predisposed to stress like how people with depressive disorders are predisposed to -well- depression, there should be more research on this.
@@alficiro3238 As an autistic person, I have to agree with this. Especially as I have never ever had a meltdown (as far as I know, at least), but I am indeed predisposed to stress. Would be interesting to see if there is indeed a link or not.
@@Elora445 Also autistic I would like to know as well, I have two anxiety disorders. I do meltdown you would probably know they tend to be big loud draining and take a while to recover from like at least a few days.
The really really really dumb part of this is that if they poured this much time and money into supporting autistic people they wouldn't need to find a 'cure'. Everyone doesn't need to be the same, everyone just needs adequate support.
I got a job as a lab tech at a local university last year. I can't tell you how shocked I was when I saw "autistic" on a group of mouse cages. WTF? For that reason and a hundred more, I quit at the end of my first week.
How the F can they even tell a mouse is autistic? Do they take a family history and life story of the mouse? I didn’t even get diagnosed until I was 35 as a human woman. So I doubt that anyone can tell if a mouse is autistic. They mostly don’t even know when people are. They just exclude us and call us weird.
@@JDMimeTHEFIRST I didn't stay in the job long enough to learn much about the research. But, you're right, at best they probably found a way to isolate a few "autistic traits" in the mice and went with it. Disappointing and unnecessary animal cruelty.
As a scientist who is 3X neurodivergent (AuDHD , bipolar II) and has been on lamotrigine (the drug used in this study) to treat my bipolar disorder, successfully, this study made me especially angry! Lamotrigine did wonders for me, but it did not cure my autism, obviously! I have so many thoughts about this particular study! I’ve also experienced many scientific talks about autism that make my blood boil. It’s like scientists have really no idea what autism is!
I got put on Lamotrigine for my so far drug resistant depression and anxiety, and I managed to get Steven-Johnson’s Syndrome. Yeah. Google Image that. Except I didn’t get the external rash, my connective tissues just started sloughing and bleeding. That was a fun month. I guess my Autism (and ADHD, other D’s) won’t get cured by these genius scientists. Rats!
I was on Lamotrigine for a while as a mood stabiliser. It seemed to work for a while... until it didn't, as with my experiences with most psych meds. It also left me more or less constantly nauseated. And no, it did not cure my autism.
It's too early for me to be crying (10 til 7 am in the U.S) But honestly, since being diagnosed autistic I am SO happy to get to know myself! My 3 y.o little boy is autistic as well, my wife severe adhd and we have another little boy on the way! I hope so deeply our next child is ND as well. I wouldn't want them to feel alienated from the rest of us but also this: I almost feel like neurotypicals are the ones at disadvantage. As an ND I lack the ability to filter out irrelevant information. I hear EVERYTHING, and I experience huge pendulum swings between different areas of life. Some are good, and some bad. But I get ALL of it. I feel like NTs have blinders on that only let them experience life close to "the middle". They don't feel, see or hear anything like as strongly as I do, and therefore aren't experiencing life fully. The problem is that the world is setup for them, not us. And it's a shame too because my out of the box thinking makes me a Rockstar to most NTs. It's the direct communication they hate me for lmao Cheers and love and weird autistic high fives from Memphis, Sam ❤ *edited to add that your hair is very nice indeed, and as a bald person I'm quite envious 😅*
Who set up the world really? The world needs more diverse minds to work together. Neuro typical people need to be coached to accept the Neuro diversity in this world. Clear rules of social gathering No politics or group games No acting or cheating or back stabbing No sign language unless you are hearing impaired. "Use your words". .....and so many. If NT don't have any genetic problems, then they can be trained and educated more easily (if only they would like to).
Couldn't agree more! It often feels to me as though NTs aren't experiencing anything with any real passion/intensity and are just sleep-walking through life.
You could do a whole series breaking down papers from autism research! There are some real shockers out there, and your analysis is both insightful and very entertaining ✌️💕🌻
Why do people have to do this. Why can't they just accept that everyone is different, that we all have needs, and just accommodate the needs people have, small or big.... Coming up with a "cure" is not the solution, and it makes people feel like there is something wrong with them. That they can't be different. The world would be very boring if everyone were the same.
Because money, because autism has been an extremely pathologised diagnosis and the mindset of "They need to be fixed!" is still entrenched, because researchers suck. No, I do not have a good view of either the medical industry, medical research, for how stigmatized they have made us.
Please do more of these. I think the research deserves a critical response. Autism Speaks is funding research into the genetics of autism and I think they also contribute to ADHD research. Your a great advocate for autism and you put a human face on an otherwise extremely misunderstood and looked down upon nuro type.
they do very much remind me of the behaviours my families last dog exhibited when he started suffering from intestinal discomfort that eventually turned out to be bowel cancer. Loss of interest in social interactions, compulsive licking and shivering, no longer making nest out of his bedding but just flopping down on it how it was. Poor guy was just feeling sick and in pain. He hadn't suddenly developed autism
My cat must be autistic too. He has bad social skills. He's non verbal. He's obsessed with this red dot. (psst, This explains why you can't look for human psychological traits in non-human species, each species, even among mammals and even primates, is rather different)
This whole thing reeks of behaviorism. I thought we already determined behavior alone is not indicative of what autism really is, so how on earth could we diagnose it in a mouse?
Oh my gosh, I really shouldn’t be laughing this hard but the science nerd in me couldn’t help myself. Yes I would love to see you tear into another, questionable at best, study. The jokes in this one really did just write themselves. 😆 Thanks for sharing, very informative & not an easy task to explain a huge study, in about 20 minutes. Sometimes laughter can be great medicine. (And I love the ears, don’t put those away, they were a brilliant add to this post 🙌💯) ☮️
Yes, scientific validity is very important. And besides criticizing or appraising papers, which is already something that we really need, there is one thing that I would really really like to have: an overview over where we stand, research-wise. Something like an autism wiki. A place where all the concepts, ideas and results of autism research go, with all the appraisals and criticisms that we all can find. Linking to papers, reviews, videos. With discussions on “Talk” pages. And so on. I know, nobody can “just do that”. This needs servers, software, maintenance, etc., and people who take care of this. I don’t know if anybody is in a position to do this or fund this. I am not, and I don’t think people here in general are able to do this. But I still wanted to put this idea ”out there”. Also, I don’t expect that a consensus appraisal can be reached easily on any given topic. I rather expect that a variety of appraisals will be possible. But the value of having something like this is that it could be a place where we can work together towards evaluating the scientific validity of concepts, research and results. And people could then go to there to get information about the subject and understand better where research stands.
I´m from Germany and since I´ve been diagnosed with ADHD 1,5 years ago I watched and read all I could find about neurodiversity, espacilly about expierences from others and whenever I´m on youtube it really gets me like... I must be autistic too... like I never related so deeply to things people told about themselves. Well. And then you go to an official german homepage about autism and it´s a hole other world. Full of assumptions and stereotypes und all writen as if never an autistic person been asked how it looks and feels from the inside to be like that. All that is been discribed is the obviosly observable different - and mostly as problematic seen - behaviour that a halfblind could spot from km away. It´s interesting and horrible at the same time. In the english-speaking neurodiverse network I´m definitly ADHD and very likely autistic too; in Germany most Psychologists even question my ADHD although it´s been officially diagnosed. I have that guess that german science leans on "facts" about autism (and ADHD) from 30 years ago and doesn´t make any move forward. Also I think there is no "cure" for autism needed but it would be nice if there was a cure for the pain it brings with itself sometimes.
Gotta love seeing a mouse getting an autism assessment. Do they also have to wait 4 years? Random vaguely related question: Have you come across studies that look into autism and nationality? While looking at autistic traits and preferences in an English speaking country, I can't help but wonder that quite a lot of them are 'normal' German traits. Have there been more neurodivers people in power in German history to make the society better adjusted for them? Is a larger proportion of the population autistic? Did the autistic Saxons stay and the neurotypical Saxon move to the British Islands?
Doc: Ok then Whiskers, would you say you're fixated to dates? Autistic mouse: Yes, but they must be dried, left in an open bag and expired between 2008 and 2014.
@@0oFlicko0 Hehuh, well I just though you might be German and therefore appreciate some silly humour 😅 The actual AQ test question nr.9 goes "I am fascinated by dates" and obviously refers to calendar dates, but a mouse would definitely prefer the edible ones. And be very fussy about them 😂
Most scientific research is just an exercise in (a) validating the preconceptions of the researchers and (b) justifying funding. A previous editor of the BMJ said that 85% of metabolic epidemiological is 'mendacious'
The mouse ears is so cute haha! I love your channel btw, it has helped me stand my ground and demand a re-diagnosing as me, my family and friends all agree that the diagnosis i have is very wrong and harmful to my future, so thanks for giving me the knowledge about autism in girls, so i can fight for the right "label"
This was really interesting to watch, love that us autistics have to put up with this nonsense. Thank you for making a video on this, I’m glad I know more about what is currently going on in the wonderful world of anti-autism haha
I don't know if you've made a video on this, but shutdowns [an internalized form of meltdowns] don't really get talked about much and I think spreading awareness on them would be valuable. I have experienced shutdowns throughout my life and didn't recognize that for what it was because I had no words for it. I just knew some days I "couldn't" anymore, and didn't want to interact, wanted to teleport back home or just disappear to give me time to recharge.
As a mouse, and an autistic one, i can confirm that these studies are completely bunk; first place i jump to is the ethics disclosures followed by methodology, and its usually instantly clear how they reached these absurd conclusions My fave bad example will always be any mouse studies that show tumorous mice as proof that some drug or another is bad; when in fact theyre usin a mouse species that is literally most well known for its extremely high propensity to grow tumours. Anythin not usual to that mouses lifestyle and they will probs grow tumors; even without such theres still like a one in ten chance any given mouse becomes tumorous. Literally torturin these mice for PR pics
Thank you, I love how you present this topic. Holy crap! Science can sure turn a few really bad corners. I am so impressed with your ability to teach in a fun and interesting manner. Since I just turned 70, when I look back at my sense of self in the '50s & '60s and my parents' sense of me at that time - was so distorted - no one knew I was Autistic. I stutter, have a condition called (PS) poland-syndrome (which is the Doc's name who coined the condition), and my IQ & test scores were way above average, so everyone thought that being academically so capable should save me from any of life's real problems. But it didn't. Thank goodness for your generation being able to express this Truth. I Was a Mask for my entire life. I was either beaten or raped into submission. Y'all here on TH-cam who know the truth about AS - have given me a better opportunity to Know Myself. And now I am gracefully aging with Agency that I never had before Neuro-Diversity started becoming understood. Yo Samdy Sam, please keep on keepin' on this work of clarifying what's BS! I love your videos.
Never too late. : ) I am also in my 70's and am finally understanding and accepting my life and myself. I am so grateful for people who are courageous enough to share their experiences.
Idk what to say after this video I researched for five hours so….. but I love you Sammy I can’t describe how much you help me thru different stages of my life
I agree with everything, BUUUUUUUUT there is absolutely nothing against animals also being autistic or having trauma or whatever other psychological characteristics. If bees can develop trauma, mice can be autistic/highly intelligent/ tend to homosexual behaviour/sensitive, whatever. We humans are very complex creatures and will show very complex symptoms, but that doesn't mean we are the only ones in the animal kingdom to present these features. Another very valid point is that of high sensitivity. As you know, the High Sensitive Person, classification coined by Dr. Elaine Aaron, is just another term for autism. Back in 1995 the poor woman didn't have any real frame of reference for her "female" autism. I read her book from that year, which was based on her nephews btw, both later in life diagnosed as autistic, and got to the conclusion that the HSP-trait is plain, good, ole, cookie-cutter autism. The thing is, she's done extensive research identifying and documenting the "trait" in over 100 species, from dogs to goldfish. So, it is a pain that they are trying to erradicate/cure autism, but it is also very plausible that animals can be autistic as well. But this is a very thought-provoking video! Thank you Sam, I adore you very much (I just disagree on this very specific point)
And flamingoes can be gay. Not relevant but just wanted to add/mini info dump. Also otters hold hands when they fall asleep so they don’t drift apart in the water. Nearly as cute as Sam’s mouse ears
I watched something recently about the development of the brain from earliest fish and fish-like creatures like lampreys which showed that genetic markers for autism were present before all others, meaning these autistic markers are the earliest. I am so sorry I cannot now recall what it was. It was an autism friendly channel though. It was very scientific, very complicated. It was evolutionary biology. If I can find it again I will come back here and update.
@@tracik1277 I had also heard about the theory that autism was the main trait of the human mind and that we used to be the neurotypicals, now they won the upper hand and dominate. Fascinating.
Part of the issue with this paper is how it’s reported in the pop science media. They make these sweeping claims that aren’t in the paper or might be hinted at for further research. I’m not saying that the mouse model is useful for autism and ADHD, I just think part of the issue is how it’s reported to the general public.
I don't feel as though I need medical science to "fix" me, thank you medical science but no. I'm not broken and don't need "fixing". Thanks for the breakdown, Sam!
This is by far my favourite video of yours. Witty & cutting from someone who has qualifications (that block the 'you don't know...' squad) all while looking great in mouse ears. tbh I'm surprised they haven't tried fruit flies as they're so much easier to fk up with a fast turn around. pls more video's explaining & attacking the really p-ss poor research that's going on these days that's being passed off as science.
This was fascinating and funny too! My son and I both have a variant of unknown significance in the ADNP genome and we both have an autism diagnosis. Love the ears! 💞
I think you hit the nail on the head guessing that it was really an issue of chasing funding. Neuroscience is NOT my field but I've seen it elsewhere... want to do a study? gotta find funding. The study you want to do isn't in a popular category? Pick some tangentially related popular topic and dress it up to be about that. Profit.
This is such a cool video! I got diagnosed with ADHD at 24 and just figured out the autism thing the other day on my 26th birthday, lol. But when I was 20, going into my third year of university (and what I'm realizing now was likely autistic burnout), I did work using machine learning to analyze brain scans of people with various neurological disorders. I remember that most of what I did involved the autism group, which is incredibly funny to me in hindsight. I think one of the reasons for choosing autism was, in fact, that it'd be easier to get funding for than, say, ADHD, schizophrenia, bipolar, etc. I imagine it's similar with breast cancer research. We found a few statistically significant links, but nothing that seemed particularly interesting or useful. Still got a couple papers out of it, though. Would anyone be interested in reading them? I'm not sure if I can legally share my copy, but I can give out the titles.
I wish they would just leave the poor mice alone. and the guinea pigs, and dogs and whatever else they think they have a right to abuse in this way. The whole thing sounds extremely suspect.
I know. I've always been against animal research for any reason whatsoever (which I realise is a controversial opinion when it comes to things like finding a cure for cancer...but so be it).
somewhere theres an alex Jones parody in this "first they're making the frogs gay and now they're giving mice autism?! what's next giving chickens schizophrenia?!?!!" no but back to the topic, great video, it's unfortunate that someone needs to be there to explain the issues in the methodology and proposed applications but you did a great job of explaining the issues
I’m autistic n frankly offended by the bad nest building remark. When I get flipped out, or burnout, I often make a nest of blankets on my closet floor n chill in there for awhile, n then come out when I’m better. (I’m also a trauma survivor.) I’m an excellent nest builder, ty very much!
This is the only criticism on scientific research I can tolerate: you target things like validity, methodology, reliability, and statistics. Thank you!
If they cured my autism then I’m not sure what would be left. I would not be the person my fiends care about and my husband loves. As a (past) scientist I also recognise research that’s mouse poo.
And people say we don't have a sense of humor. I laughed way too hard at some of the jokes here. Especially the Autism jeans and the remark about lacking the costumes. On a more serious note, I think the "impaired nest building" is supposed to be executive dysfunction for mice.
If a dyspraxic may borrow the term, mice are my cherished special interest, so the combined levity and smart analysis while in mouse ears have me over the moon (which, as we know, is made of cheese).
I always felt very connected to animals, like my autism is sort of animal like???? I don't know how to explain but I feel like autism is sort of a OG way of brain format??? I suck at explaining but Temple Grandin said it better ahahaha! Basically maybe that every mammals are autistic and human started becoming neurotypical because of the complex social structure or something.
If you're looking for another WTF study, how about the one that tries to link autism and ADHD with taking Tylenol/acetaminophen/paracetamol during pregnancy? In the US there are literally ongoing lawsuits where moms of autistic children are suing drug companies and distributors based on these papers. It's gross and sounds like questionable science. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists even made a statement that pushes back on directly linking the two, further validating my initial reaction.
Hi, I have a question about asd, not quite related to the video though. Is it true that autistic ppl do the raptor hands? I saw a bunch of tiktoks about it, but I don't think I want to base my knowledge on tikoks. I cannot find much information about it anywhere, so I'm wondering if this is an actual thing or just a myth.
How are these people getting grants for stuff like this? Also yes I did spend approximately 10 minutes trying to come up with a mouse pun for this comment, thanks for not asking 😂
I really wish you could upload more video more often. I understand it takes time creating your videos, but your videos are so good and unique. In fact, I think your content is among the best within the realm of the Autism influencers. I feel like you could benefit so much more people with more of your work and you would probably earn a lot of money with ad revenue and sponcers with your quality content and the amount of beloved subscribers that follow you now.
I had a quick look at the nature article referenced in the description (basically I read the abstract). My two cents... It appears to be one of those studies to see if further research could be promising. In this case I think all they were trying to show is when this gene is in mice there is a way to counteract the behaviour changes which "might" warrant further research. Personally I'm in two minds about this. On one hand if someone wants to alter their behaviour to be more neurotypical, then I think they should have that option. But on the other hand I don't think autism is something that needs to be fixed or corrected, its just part of who someone is.
As was touched on a bit in this video, I find it ridiculous that animal models are compared with a neurotypical human, let alone an autistic one. It's not to say that animals are like autistic humans, as that would be almost as foolish as saying that animals are like neurotypical humans. But they definitely often have traits that autistic people might be able to relate to more, particularly in terms of sensory issues. For example, I have a dog that is sensitive to people or animals being in her space. And then there's Temple Grandin having made a career by understanding the sensory issues of cows.
While I don't think there is anything wrong with my brand of Autism. It makes me quirky and I love it. There are certain types of Autism that severely impacts the person's life. Anything to help those members of our community would be something I would support. (not saying this research is good, just that something would be nice)
These studies should not be done by NT. They might skew the results with their prejudiced opinions. Why not these kind of research work done by the Autistic people (the high-medium functioning type /Or whoever can pursue research studies well and able to write clearly/(the label of the ADS does not matter)? ***** 1 in 90 is diagnosed (that's an estimate) but if all those self diagnosis of adults that we see or hear today- if only they were diagnosed as child,then I am.sure the ratio is 1-20 or 1-30. The more the diagnosis, the better for the Autism community. I am.happy that Actual Awareness is on the rise and AUTISM is not a diesease to cure. Tje world needa different minds to work together, well needs more empathatic minds. And Autistic people are more emotional and extremely empathetic.
Reduced vocalizations ?? Homie mice don't have language and aren't vocal the same way humans are even if they were capable of complex language and social patterns. Many animals communicate in ways humans are incapable (such as unique body language or smell) or ways which are opposite to what is common with allistic folks (see eye contact for example) so even if not vocalizing as much was abnormal it wouldn't prove a 'social deficit' by any stretch. Don't you have to prove the basis of your study before you try and prove a hypothesis??? In this case wouldn't it be expected that normal social patterns and communication types in mice are already known and proven, and then that they also prove that 'genetically modifying mice to have autism' is actually equivalent to humans who are autistic? This isn't the kind of thing thats never been researched before, people know a lot about mice lol. I kinda think animal testing is already way too common in comparison the actual benefit to the studies involving them (and the harm done to the animals) So seeing more resources used on studies like this instead of ones that could actually help people (like improving mental healthcare effectiveness for folks with Autism or other intersectionalities, or finding new methods to support and grow besides the 'one size fits all' treatments which often let people fall through the cracks) makes me pretty perplexed and frustrated. If you can't find anything, spend it on increasing ASD testing for late diagnosis/missed folks, or improving access to said testing. Heck, if you have the money and time to waste on studies like this, maybe just use it to fund food banks or clean energy, or anything else that doesn't involve experiments on mice to 'cure' Autism lol.
This is somewhat ignorant since narcissism\NPD and other "cluster B" or "personality disorders" are largely considered to be trauma-induced, so the cure would be to stop having such a traumatic society that makes people grow up to act in maladaptive ways.
Now im just immagining a mousse trying to keep up with all the stuff ppl Got going on.. on social media, House keeping, shopping, going to social stuff, driving a car to work.. 😂
Having a bad headache day today I want to go out but I'm inside so I'm not going out today. I'm bored and need something for distraction and learning. My eyes hurt and the front of my head also
I haven’t finished the video yet but my ADHD is wondering if some of these mice could be masking their autistic traits? Do they give them sensory things to try out? I need to know more about these mice.
I'd argue you could see autism (or at least similar neurodivergent traits but perhaps with a different underlying mechanism) in other very social animals we keep as pets, such as dogs. And we could probably almost certainly see it in other primates; it would be almost weird if we didn't at all; though I could imagine that in some primates the prevalence of the different neurotypes could be completely different, and neurotypical behaviour could be the minority in some species. (After all most people more or less jokingly think that house cats are normally autistic, and extroverted clingy adult cats are the unusual ones. At least anecdotally, it seems like more autistic people prefer the company of cats than dogs, though that might just be my bubble.)
Man, as someone who really loves mice and is possibly autistic (getting an assessment soon) and when I first heard of this I thought the research was just for being curious about autistic genetics not to “cure” autism/neurodivergence :/
Thank you! Your videos are so good! Im a doctors secretary in denmark and i struggle! Especially after two children suddently appeard - it ofren feels that Way.. My House is a mess - im fighting to keep Calm 😅 Anyways- i like to look at neurodiversity and comparing to a visual thing. Racism… Would you be that proud if the sentence was “new promissing resoult: we Can make your skin White!!! No more Dark skincolors! 🎉🎉🎉 That would be sooo offensive.. When you tell me i need to be like you, you are just as rude as when you tell someone they need a nosejob or to chance the tone of their skin. why? Why shouldnt you become more diverse? We could all benefit from more controlled envitonmemts, soundproofing and so on, ordinary people struggle to now a days.. theres so much going on and so little time to keep up..
Took me a long time to pluck uo the courage to watch this one. Good fair coverage of a very stupid way of spending research money where we apparently can get some good use out of it but not at all for autism. I choose autism awareness and personal accomodations any day over 'curing' a difference in brain type. What nonsense! The world wouldn't be half as advanced, broad or cool if it wasn't neurodivergence! Also, I loved the cheesy jokes. I'm a sucker for those. The gouda one was funny to a Dutchie who grew up abroad. Gouda on you for that one! Hahaha!
When you get a huge grant for a study, you have to make it published and hopefully as high as possible. For this you need to sell your work as best as possible and then you create a clickbate title because otherwise you will end up in a bad journal and your chances to get another funding will decrease. Also, you need to rush to publish before others and then not everything you do is done the most accurate way possible. This is not only the problem of autism research but it's a general problem in academical science. I would like also to mention here that the scientist from the paper didn't claim that their mice were autistic but they wrote "autisti-associated behaviaor". Unfortunately, the person writing a press article exacerbated everything, which is already another issue. Another point is that first in order to study a certain disease you have to start with cell culture and animal models. And only after you get promising results you can move to human studies. Of course, animal models won't minick everythng and obviously there are conditions which can't be reproduced in animals but if it's possible to mick a human condition at least to some extent in mice, it's a good starting point. Regarding the reason why nest building capbilities were included into ASD-traits in mice is that for mice it's typical social behavior. When we check whether the mice are doing well in the lab, nest building is one of the thing to pay attention on.
I'm not sure what exactly is your problem with the "mouse model of autism". It just means they study autistic traits in animals, and in this case mice. As many animals are social, and as autism is genetic, it's something very logical to look for and research. Not very different than studying other genetic traits that can be seen in animals too. Doesn't mean autistic people are animals (except in the sense that humans in general are animals, we're part of the animal kingdom, and share genetic codes and biological mechanisms with primates first and foremost and other animals second). Also the idea that autism shoulnd't be attempt to be cured because "it's fine" and "is who I am" it's a privileged ASD 1 idea, not a "can't function without constant assistance" ASD 3 idea. Even many ASD1 and ASD 2 persons would still consider a cure, if not for the good parts, surely for the bad parts. If I could be more socially competent or less rigid and repeatitive without losing the unique preferences and perspectives, I'd give it a try. As for "but it can't be cured, why they even try" angle, it's too early to be so cocksure about, when research is just getting started, and all that you know you learned from the same kind of researchers that you sneer at. Just a 3-4 decades ago they didn't even know "high functioning autism"/aspergers is a thing, they still don't have precice mechanisms and understanding of how it develops, and suddenly you know all there is to know medically about it, and they should stop research? I mean, you say: "I don't think they would ever find anything straighforward enough to act in a kind of gene editing way". Should stop their research and pack it in then, the science has spoken! Who needs research when there are opinions? Surely the state of gene editing and understanding of genetic issues has peaked in 2023, nothing they might find that could possible change things in 2030 or 2050 for that matter!
As long as the autism cure people are preoccupied with mice, at least they're not coming for us. And I doubt anything they learn by studying very broad and vague autism stereotypes in mice that could just as easily be stress responses will be applicable to autism in humans. Shame for the mice, though.
I don't think we have a disorder. I think we're just different. Otherwise there really is no explanation of my friend who is a master bushman, but can't live in cities due to a panic response around too many people. The guy can survive in nature unassisted. I think that's better than 99.9% of city folk :-)
All these so called “autistic traits in mice” just sound like a poor lil mouse under extreme stress. As someone whose special interest is mice ( and knows a lot about them and owns a few ) , this study is simply messed up and not okay…for multiple reasons. why can’t they just let autistic people be, as well as just let mice be :(
not defending this study, but aren't autistic traits in humans also like people under extreme stress?
they get cranky over sensations they don't like, they can't handle things not going to plan, etc.
@@alficiro3238 we do not get “cranky” from stimuli we can’t handle. For me, it’s extremely excruciating - not just “stress”. I would also say to try avoid using the word “cranky” to describe the extreme overwhelm and pain , sensations may cause.
And the struggle to handle situations not going to plan is a result of the lack of cognitive flexibility ( an executive function ). Overall, autism is a neurodevelopmental disability - not just being under “ extreme stress “ , I hope this helps 🐁
@@finnmelville I did not mean to demean the experience of autistic people and realize that "cranky" is the wrong word to use.
but while autism is more complicated than just being under extreme stress, I do still find the similarities (such as increased sensitivity and loss of executive function) very interesting; it's as if autistic people are predisposed to stress like how people with depressive disorders are predisposed to -well- depression, there should be more research on this.
@@alficiro3238
As an autistic person, I have to agree with this. Especially as I have never ever had a meltdown (as far as I know, at least), but I am indeed predisposed to stress. Would be interesting to see if there is indeed a link or not.
@@Elora445 Also autistic I would like to know as well, I have two anxiety disorders. I do meltdown you would probably know they tend to be big loud draining and take a while to recover from like at least a few days.
The really really really dumb part of this is that if they poured this much time and money into supporting autistic people they wouldn't need to find a 'cure'. Everyone doesn't need to be the same, everyone just needs adequate support.
YES!!
YES! THIS! Lower-support-needs people don't even need *that*; we just need to be *allowed to exist as we are*.
💯
Perfectly said.
No cure needed for a condition that the brain is wired with.
Exactly right!
I got a job as a lab tech at a local university last year. I can't tell you how shocked I was when I saw "autistic" on a group of mouse cages. WTF? For that reason and a hundred more, I quit at the end of my first week.
How the F can they even tell a mouse is autistic? Do they take a family history and life story of the mouse? I didn’t even get diagnosed until I was 35 as a human woman. So I doubt that anyone can tell if a mouse is autistic. They mostly don’t even know when people are. They just exclude us and call us weird.
@@JDMimeTHEFIRST I didn't stay in the job long enough to learn much about the research. But, you're right, at best they probably found a way to isolate a few "autistic traits" in the mice and went with it. Disappointing and unnecessary animal cruelty.
As a scientist who is 3X neurodivergent (AuDHD , bipolar II) and has been on lamotrigine (the drug used in this study) to treat my bipolar disorder, successfully, this study made me especially angry! Lamotrigine did wonders for me, but it did not cure my autism, obviously!
I have so many thoughts about this particular study!
I’ve also experienced many scientific talks about autism that make my blood boil. It’s like scientists have really no idea what autism is!
I got put on Lamotrigine for my so far drug resistant depression and anxiety, and I managed to get Steven-Johnson’s Syndrome. Yeah. Google Image that. Except I didn’t get the external rash, my connective tissues just started sloughing and bleeding. That was a fun month.
I guess my Autism (and ADHD, other D’s) won’t get cured by these genius scientists. Rats!
Oh, that's a big plot twist here.
I also take that for the longest and somehow I'm still autistic too.
I was on Lamotrigine for a while as a mood stabiliser. It seemed to work for a while... until it didn't, as with my experiences with most psych meds. It also left me more or less constantly nauseated. And no, it did not cure my autism.
How did you become a scientist? I'd love to but it's difficult to get advice on how to get into the field (you don't have to answer I just wondered)
It's too early for me to be crying (10 til 7 am in the U.S)
But honestly, since being diagnosed autistic I am SO happy to get to know myself! My 3 y.o little boy is autistic as well, my wife severe adhd and we have another little boy on the way!
I hope so deeply our next child is ND as well. I wouldn't want them to feel alienated from the rest of us but also this:
I almost feel like neurotypicals are the ones at disadvantage. As an ND I lack the ability to filter out irrelevant information. I hear EVERYTHING, and I experience huge pendulum swings between different areas of life. Some are good, and some bad. But I get ALL of it.
I feel like NTs have blinders on that only let them experience life close to "the middle". They don't feel, see or hear anything like as strongly as I do, and therefore aren't experiencing life fully.
The problem is that the world is setup for them, not us. And it's a shame too because my out of the box thinking makes me a Rockstar to most NTs. It's the direct communication they hate me for lmao
Cheers and love and weird autistic high fives from Memphis, Sam ❤
*edited to add that your hair is very nice indeed, and as a bald person I'm quite envious 😅*
Who set up the world really?
The world needs more diverse minds to work together.
Neuro typical people need to be coached to accept the Neuro diversity in this world.
Clear rules of social gathering
No politics or group games
No acting or cheating or back stabbing
No sign language unless you are hearing impaired. "Use your words".
.....and so many.
If NT don't have any genetic problems, then they can be trained and educated more easily (if only they would like to).
Couldn't agree more! It often feels to me as though NTs aren't experiencing anything with any real passion/intensity and are just sleep-walking through life.
Well said.
@@BetheChange80 Can't we just put collars on them and keep them in kennels? It would make the training a lot easier :)
You could do a whole series breaking down papers from autism research! There are some real shockers out there, and your analysis is both insightful and very entertaining ✌️💕🌻
Yes I agree!
You said shockers and my brain went literal and brought up the shock therapy practice. ._.
Why do people have to do this.
Why can't they just accept that everyone is different, that we all have needs, and just accommodate the needs people have, small or big....
Coming up with a "cure" is not the solution, and it makes people feel like there is something wrong with them. That they can't be different.
The world would be very boring if everyone were the same.
Maybe we can use whatever they gave to the mice to make them autistic in the first place to "cure normalness" in people? 😮😅😂
Because money, because autism has been an extremely pathologised diagnosis and the mindset of "They need to be fixed!" is still entrenched, because researchers suck.
No, I do not have a good view of either the medical industry, medical research, for how stigmatized they have made us.
Please do more of these. I think the research deserves a critical response. Autism Speaks is funding research into the genetics of autism and I think they also contribute to ADHD research.
Your a great advocate for autism and you put a human face on an otherwise extremely misunderstood and looked down upon nuro type.
Yes, very few people can do the critical thinking that is so needed and so well done in this video.
they do very much remind me of the behaviours my families last dog exhibited when he started suffering from intestinal discomfort that eventually turned out to be bowel cancer. Loss of interest in social interactions, compulsive licking and shivering, no longer making nest out of his bedding but just flopping down on it how it was. Poor guy was just feeling sick and in pain. He hadn't suddenly developed autism
My cat must be autistic too.
He has bad social skills.
He's non verbal.
He's obsessed with this red dot.
(psst, This explains why you can't look for human psychological traits in non-human species, each species, even among mammals and even primates, is rather different)
Well duh, all cats are autistic.
@@theinnercircle5380 No, they are just sociopaths.
@@theinnercircle5380 Cats are just autistic dogs. Aren't they? :)
This whole thing reeks of behaviorism. I thought we already determined behavior alone is not indicative of what autism really is, so how on earth could we diagnose it in a mouse?
Never underestimate the deep pockets of distressed parents with abnormal children, that can't be abused as poster children.
Oh my gosh, I really shouldn’t be laughing this hard but the science nerd in me couldn’t help myself.
Yes I would love to see you tear into another, questionable at best, study. The jokes in this one really did just write themselves. 😆
Thanks for sharing, very informative & not an easy task to explain a huge study, in about 20 minutes.
Sometimes laughter can be great medicine. (And I love the ears, don’t put those away, they were a brilliant add to this post 🙌💯) ☮️
Yes, scientific validity is very important. And besides criticizing or appraising papers, which is already something that we really need, there is one thing that I would really really like to have: an overview over where we stand, research-wise. Something like an autism wiki. A place where all the concepts, ideas and results of autism research go, with all the appraisals and criticisms that we all can find. Linking to papers, reviews, videos. With discussions on “Talk” pages. And so on.
I know, nobody can “just do that”. This needs servers, software, maintenance, etc., and people who take care of this. I don’t know if anybody is in a position to do this or fund this. I am not, and I don’t think people here in general are able to do this. But I still wanted to put this idea ”out there”.
Also, I don’t expect that a consensus appraisal can be reached easily on any given topic. I rather expect that a variety of appraisals will be possible. But the value of having something like this is that it could be a place where we can work together towards evaluating the scientific validity of concepts, research and results. And people could then go to there to get information about the subject and understand better where research stands.
I would absolutely be here for more videos of you in various animal costumes (or not) explaining and interrogating scientific papers!
I must have neurotypical mice in my house, that's why I have trouble communicating with them about moving out.
I´m from Germany and since I´ve been diagnosed with ADHD 1,5 years ago I watched and read all I could find about neurodiversity, espacilly about expierences from others and whenever I´m on youtube it really gets me like... I must be autistic too... like I never related so deeply to things people told about themselves. Well. And then you go to an official german homepage about autism and it´s a hole other world. Full of assumptions and stereotypes und all writen as if never an autistic person been asked how it looks and feels from the inside to be like that. All that is been discribed is the obviosly observable different - and mostly as problematic seen - behaviour that a halfblind could spot from km away. It´s interesting and horrible at the same time.
In the english-speaking neurodiverse network I´m definitly ADHD and very likely autistic too; in Germany most Psychologists even question my ADHD although it´s been officially diagnosed. I have that guess that german science leans on "facts" about autism (and ADHD) from 30 years ago and doesn´t make any move forward.
Also I think there is no "cure" for autism needed but it would be nice if there was a cure for the pain it brings with itself sometimes.
“I just don’t … I just can’t … and also-
*”I don’t have the costumes.”*
🤣😂
Gotta love seeing a mouse getting an autism assessment. Do they also have to wait 4 years? Random vaguely related question: Have you come across studies that look into autism and nationality? While looking at autistic traits and preferences in an English speaking country, I can't help but wonder that quite a lot of them are 'normal' German traits. Have there been more neurodivers people in power in German history to make the society better adjusted for them? Is a larger proportion of the population autistic? Did the autistic Saxons stay and the neurotypical Saxon move to the British Islands?
Doc: Ok then Whiskers, would you say you're fixated to dates?
Autistic mouse: Yes, but they must be dried, left in an open bag and expired between 2008 and 2014.
@@sophya5796 How did you know that I have a drawer full of old opened probably expired sweets?
@@0oFlicko0 Hehuh, well I just though you might be German and therefore appreciate some silly humour 😅
The actual AQ test question nr.9 goes "I am fascinated by dates" and obviously refers to calendar dates, but a mouse would definitely prefer the edible ones. And be very fussy about them 😂
Most scientific research is just an exercise in (a) validating the preconceptions of the researchers and (b) justifying funding. A previous editor of the BMJ said that 85% of metabolic epidemiological is 'mendacious'
The mouse ears is so cute haha!
I love your channel btw, it has helped me stand my ground and demand a re-diagnosing as me, my family and friends all agree that the diagnosis i have is very wrong and harmful to my future, so thanks for giving me the knowledge about autism in girls, so i can fight for the right "label"
This was really interesting to watch, love that us autistics have to put up with this nonsense. Thank you for making a video on this, I’m glad I know more about what is currently going on in the wonderful world of anti-autism haha
I don't know if you've made a video on this, but shutdowns [an internalized form of meltdowns] don't really get talked about much and I think spreading awareness on them would be valuable.
I have experienced shutdowns throughout my life and didn't recognize that for what it was because I had no words for it. I just knew some days I "couldn't" anymore, and didn't want to interact, wanted to teleport back home or just disappear to give me time to recharge.
As a mouse, and an autistic one, i can confirm that these studies are completely bunk; first place i jump to is the ethics disclosures followed by methodology, and its usually instantly clear how they reached these absurd conclusions
My fave bad example will always be any mouse studies that show tumorous mice as proof that some drug or another is bad; when in fact theyre usin a mouse species that is literally most well known for its extremely high propensity to grow tumours. Anythin not usual to that mouses lifestyle and they will probs grow tumors; even without such theres still like a one in ten chance any given mouse becomes tumorous. Literally torturin these mice for PR pics
I appreciate getting input from the autistic mouse community, it means a lot
Lol!
Thank you, I love how you present this topic. Holy crap! Science can sure turn a few really bad corners. I am so impressed with your ability to teach in a fun and interesting manner. Since I just turned 70, when I look back at my sense of self in the '50s & '60s and my parents' sense of me at that time - was so distorted - no one knew I was Autistic. I stutter, have a condition called (PS) poland-syndrome (which is the Doc's name who coined the condition), and my IQ & test scores were way above average, so everyone thought that being academically so capable should save me from any of life's real problems. But it didn't. Thank goodness for your generation being able to express this Truth. I Was a Mask for my entire life. I was either beaten or raped into submission. Y'all here on TH-cam who know the truth about AS - have given me a better opportunity to Know Myself. And now I am gracefully aging with Agency that I never had before Neuro-Diversity started becoming understood. Yo Samdy Sam, please keep on keepin' on this work of clarifying what's BS! I love your videos.
Never too late. : ) I am also in my 70's and am finally understanding and accepting my life and myself. I am so grateful for people who are courageous enough to share their experiences.
Idk what to say after this video I researched for five hours so….. but I love you Sammy I can’t describe how much you help me thru different stages of my life
It would be great if they dedicated this sort of investment into accommodating autism rather than trying to get rid of it.
People hate what they don’t understand.
This video is so well done! Spot on! ❤❤❤
I agree with everything, BUUUUUUUUT there is absolutely nothing against animals also being autistic or having trauma or whatever other psychological characteristics. If bees can develop trauma, mice can be autistic/highly intelligent/ tend to homosexual behaviour/sensitive, whatever. We humans are very complex creatures and will show very complex symptoms, but that doesn't mean we are the only ones in the animal kingdom to present these features. Another very valid point is that of high sensitivity. As you know, the High Sensitive Person, classification coined by Dr. Elaine Aaron, is just another term for autism. Back in 1995 the poor woman didn't have any real frame of reference for her "female" autism. I read her book from that year, which was based on her nephews btw, both later in life diagnosed as autistic, and got to the conclusion that the HSP-trait is plain, good, ole, cookie-cutter autism. The thing is, she's done extensive research identifying and documenting the "trait" in over 100 species, from dogs to goldfish. So, it is a pain that they are trying to erradicate/cure autism, but it is also very plausible that animals can be autistic as well. But this is a very thought-provoking video! Thank you Sam, I adore you very much (I just disagree on this very specific point)
And flamingoes can be gay. Not relevant but just wanted to add/mini info dump. Also otters hold hands when they fall asleep so they don’t drift apart in the water. Nearly as cute as Sam’s mouse ears
@@sophiekerr8964 that's cuuute!
I watched something recently about the development of the brain from earliest fish and fish-like creatures like lampreys which showed that genetic markers for autism were present before all others, meaning these autistic markers are the earliest. I am so sorry I cannot now recall what it was. It was an autism friendly channel though. It was very scientific, very complicated. It was evolutionary biology. If I can find it again I will come back here and update.
@@tracik1277 I had also heard about the theory that autism was the main trait of the human mind and that we used to be the neurotypicals, now they won the upper hand and dominate. Fascinating.
@@byamboy Yes, power over virtue, what a way to go.
Part of the issue with this paper is how it’s reported in the pop science media. They make these sweeping claims that aren’t in the paper or might be hinted at for further research. I’m not saying that the mouse model is useful for autism and ADHD, I just think part of the issue is how it’s reported to the general public.
scientists when talking about autism: ive connected the dots
every autistic person: you didnt connect shit
scientists: ive connected them
I don't feel as though I need medical science to "fix" me, thank you medical science but no. I'm not broken and don't need "fixing".
Thanks for the breakdown, Sam!
Such an interesting video - would love to see more where you review autism research and comment on it! 😊
This video made me want to spontaneously yell out "I LOVE YOU" so I would consider it a hit and the format worth pursuing in the future 😂
This is by far my favourite video of yours. Witty & cutting from someone who has qualifications (that block the 'you don't know...' squad) all while looking great in mouse ears.
tbh I'm surprised they haven't tried fruit flies as they're so much easier to fk up with a fast turn around.
pls more video's explaining & attacking the really p-ss poor research that's going on these days that's being passed off as science.
Well done! I love how you broke down the science with both facts and humor. Really, really good job! TY for your time and effort!
Jeez. The poor little mouses ☹️
Now I'm wondering if the animals I get along with are also like me.
This was fascinating and funny too! My son and I both have a variant of unknown significance in the ADNP genome and we both have an autism diagnosis. Love the ears! 💞
Loved it Sam, the research sounds like desperation rather than genuine inspirational research
I think you hit the nail on the head guessing that it was really an issue of chasing funding. Neuroscience is NOT my field but I've seen it elsewhere... want to do a study? gotta find funding. The study you want to do isn't in a popular category? Pick some tangentially related popular topic and dress it up to be about that. Profit.
This is such a cool video! I got diagnosed with ADHD at 24 and just figured out the autism thing the other day on my 26th birthday, lol. But when I was 20, going into my third year of university (and what I'm realizing now was likely autistic burnout), I did work using machine learning to analyze brain scans of people with various neurological disorders. I remember that most of what I did involved the autism group, which is incredibly funny to me in hindsight. I think one of the reasons for choosing autism was, in fact, that it'd be easier to get funding for than, say, ADHD, schizophrenia, bipolar, etc. I imagine it's similar with breast cancer research. We found a few statistically significant links, but nothing that seemed particularly interesting or useful. Still got a couple papers out of it, though. Would anyone be interested in reading them? I'm not sure if I can legally share my copy, but I can give out the titles.
Please make more of this!
I wish they would just leave the poor mice alone. and the guinea pigs, and dogs and whatever else they think they have a right to abuse in this way. The whole thing sounds extremely suspect.
I know. I've always been against animal research for any reason whatsoever (which I realise is a controversial opinion when it comes to things like finding a cure for cancer...but so be it).
Google scholar....mmmm.....I'm going to go down an Mouse hole.
somewhere theres an alex Jones parody in this
"first they're making the frogs gay and now they're giving mice autism?! what's next giving chickens schizophrenia?!?!!"
no but back to the topic, great video, it's unfortunate that someone needs to be there to explain the issues in the methodology and proposed applications but you did a great job of explaining the issues
You should release an outtake video from this video. I don't know how you got through it. Absolutely hilarious topic.
I’m autistic n frankly offended by the bad nest building remark. When I get flipped out, or burnout, I often make a nest of blankets on my closet floor n chill in there for awhile, n then come out when I’m better. (I’m also a trauma survivor.) I’m an excellent nest builder, ty very much!
This is the only criticism on scientific research I can tolerate: you target things like validity, methodology, reliability, and statistics. Thank you!
You crack me up! Love your explanation of these type of articles.
That was a mouse-full 🐭
If they cured my autism then I’m not sure what would be left. I would not be the person my fiends care about and my husband loves. As a (past) scientist I also recognise research that’s mouse poo.
And people say we don't have a sense of humor. I laughed way too hard at some of the jokes here. Especially the Autism jeans and the remark about lacking the costumes.
On a more serious note, I think the "impaired nest building" is supposed to be executive dysfunction for mice.
i LOVE this video so much and your channel in general, it's literally helped change my life, thank you so much for all your work!!
Sam, you did a great job channeling the mouse :)
All the sarcastic quips had me literally laughing out loud. Much needed for such an infuriating topic
I almost spit out my soup from laughing when you said "I'm not usually a mouse." 😂
i didn't notice the mouse ears until i was 13 minutes into the video, i was so confused with the "i don't have the costumes" thing jhdbskg
If a dyspraxic may borrow the term, mice are my cherished special interest, so the combined levity and smart analysis while in mouse ears have me over the moon (which, as we know, is made of cheese).
I always felt very connected to animals, like my autism is sort of animal like???? I don't know how to explain but I feel like autism is sort of a OG way of brain format??? I suck at explaining but Temple Grandin said it better ahahaha! Basically maybe that every mammals are autistic and human started becoming neurotypical because of the complex social structure or something.
The mice behaviours just sound like the mice are stressed
Goudaaa 🐀 Gouda video, thanks for sharing your input!
You're so funny Sam! Thanks for educating us!
I couldn't help but notice in the thumbnail one of your mouse ears seems to have disappeared into the green screen.
Presenting: AUTISM MOUSE 🐁
(Thank you, this is now a part of my vocabulary)
If you're looking for another WTF study, how about the one that tries to link autism and ADHD with taking Tylenol/acetaminophen/paracetamol during pregnancy?
In the US there are literally ongoing lawsuits where moms of autistic children are suing drug companies and distributors based on these papers.
It's gross and sounds like questionable science. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists even made a statement that pushes back on directly linking the two, further validating my initial reaction.
Hi, I have a question about asd, not quite related to the video though. Is it true that autistic ppl do the raptor hands? I saw a bunch of tiktoks about it, but I don't think I want to base my knowledge on tikoks. I cannot find much information about it anywhere, so I'm wondering if this is an actual thing or just a myth.
How are these people getting grants for stuff like this? Also yes I did spend approximately 10 minutes trying to come up with a mouse pun for this comment, thanks for not asking 😂
I really wish you could upload more video more often. I understand it takes time creating your videos, but your videos are so good and unique. In fact, I think your content is among the best within the realm of the Autism influencers. I feel like you could benefit so much more people with more of your work and you would probably earn a lot of money with ad revenue and sponcers with your quality content and the amount of beloved subscribers that follow you now.
I had a quick look at the nature article referenced in the description (basically I read the abstract). My two cents... It appears to be one of those studies to see if further research could be promising. In this case I think all they were trying to show is when this gene is in mice there is a way to counteract the behaviour changes which "might" warrant further research.
Personally I'm in two minds about this. On one hand if someone wants to alter their behaviour to be more neurotypical, then I think they should have that option. But on the other hand I don't think autism is something that needs to be fixed or corrected, its just part of who someone is.
As was touched on a bit in this video, I find it ridiculous that animal models are compared with a neurotypical human, let alone an autistic one. It's not to say that animals are like autistic humans, as that would be almost as foolish as saying that animals are like neurotypical humans. But they definitely often have traits that autistic people might be able to relate to more, particularly in terms of sensory issues. For example, I have a dog that is sensitive to people or animals being in her space. And then there's Temple Grandin having made a career by understanding the sensory issues of cows.
tbh "stimmy mouse" is great for a username or a nickname online
Looove ur wit!! Yeah I do!! Annnd your intelligence. THANKU! Laurie
While I don't think there is anything wrong with my brand of Autism. It makes me quirky and I love it. There are certain types of Autism that severely impacts the person's life. Anything to help those members of our community would be something I would support. (not saying this research is good, just that something would be nice)
Thank you so much! You do an amazing work! ❤🎉😊
These studies should not be done by NT. They might skew the results with their prejudiced opinions.
Why not these kind of research work done by the Autistic people (the high-medium functioning type /Or whoever can pursue research studies well and able to write clearly/(the label of the ADS does not matter)?
*****
1 in 90 is diagnosed (that's an estimate) but if all those self diagnosis of adults that we see or hear today- if only they were diagnosed as child,then I am.sure the ratio is 1-20 or 1-30.
The more the diagnosis, the better for the Autism community. I am.happy that Actual Awareness is on the rise and AUTISM is not a diesease to cure. Tje world needa different minds to work together, well needs more empathatic minds.
And Autistic people are more emotional and extremely empathetic.
Reduced vocalizations ?? Homie mice don't have language and aren't vocal the same way humans are even if they were capable of complex language and social patterns.
Many animals communicate in ways humans are incapable (such as unique body language or smell) or ways which are opposite to what is common with allistic folks (see eye contact for example) so even if not vocalizing as much was abnormal it wouldn't prove a 'social deficit' by any stretch.
Don't you have to prove the basis of your study before you try and prove a hypothesis??? In this case wouldn't it be expected that normal social patterns and communication types in mice are already known and proven, and then that they also prove that 'genetically modifying mice to have autism' is actually equivalent to humans who are autistic? This isn't the kind of thing thats never been researched before, people know a lot about mice lol.
I kinda think animal testing is already way too common in comparison the actual benefit to the studies involving them (and the harm done to the animals)
So seeing more resources used on studies like this instead of ones that could actually help people (like improving mental healthcare effectiveness for folks with Autism or other intersectionalities, or finding new methods to support and grow besides the 'one size fits all' treatments which often let people fall through the cracks) makes me pretty perplexed and frustrated. If you can't find anything, spend it on increasing ASD testing for late diagnosis/missed folks, or improving access to said testing.
Heck, if you have the money and time to waste on studies like this, maybe just use it to fund food banks or clean energy, or anything else that doesn't involve experiments on mice to 'cure' Autism lol.
Finally, my Modest Mouse hyperfixation manifested
Why don't the try to find and eliminate the gene for narcissism?
This is somewhat ignorant since narcissism\NPD and other "cluster B" or "personality disorders" are largely considered to be trauma-induced, so the cure would be to stop having such a traumatic society that makes people grow up to act in maladaptive ways.
I've seen this stud referenced several times and I know what video I'll be sharing as an answer now.
Now im just immagining a mousse trying to keep up with all the stuff ppl Got going on.. on social media, House keeping, shopping, going to social stuff, driving a car to work.. 😂
Did they compare the results of activating the genes with mice who haven't been altered?
Always. There is no other way. You are usually using also littermates without that particular mutation.
Having a bad headache day today
I want to go out but I'm inside so I'm not going out today.
I'm bored and need something for distraction and learning.
My eyes hurt and the front of my head also
I haven’t finished the video yet but my ADHD is wondering if some of these mice could be masking their autistic traits? Do they give them sensory things to try out? I need to know more about these mice.
I understand being autistic can/is hard. I struggle but it's so fundamental to me and others so it's always a strong no because I like me being me
Lol, here I was thinking MOUSE might just be an acronym. After watching I feel smarter now. Unlike those scientists.
Many Of Us Support Eugenics?
@@tracik1277 oh wow. That's way to fitting for being just a coincidence.
😂
@@schrottdrossel9902 I’m so glad you got it and didn’t think I was one of ‘them’ !!!😮
@@schrottdrossel9902 I can never remember/figure out existing acronyms but I can make them up really fast. Autistic superpower lollll
I'd argue you could see autism (or at least similar neurodivergent traits but perhaps with a different underlying mechanism) in other very social animals we keep as pets, such as dogs. And we could probably almost certainly see it in other primates; it would be almost weird if we didn't at all; though I could imagine that in some primates the prevalence of the different neurotypes could be completely different, and neurotypical behaviour could be the minority in some species.
(After all most people more or less jokingly think that house cats are normally autistic, and extroverted clingy adult cats are the unusual ones. At least anecdotally, it seems like more autistic people prefer the company of cats than dogs, though that might just be my bubble.)
Looking for autistic behavior in altered mice had me imagining mice flapping their front paws!🐀
Man, as someone who really loves mice and is possibly autistic (getting an assessment soon) and when I first heard of this I thought the research was just for being curious about autistic genetics not to “cure” autism/neurodivergence :/
Thank you! Your videos are so good! Im a doctors secretary in denmark and i struggle! Especially after two children suddently appeard - it ofren feels that Way.. My House is a mess - im fighting to keep Calm 😅
Anyways- i like to look at neurodiversity and comparing to a visual thing. Racism…
Would you be that proud if the sentence was “new promissing resoult: we Can make your skin White!!! No more Dark skincolors! 🎉🎉🎉
That would be sooo offensive..
When you tell me i need to be like you, you are just as rude as when you tell someone they need a nosejob or to chance the tone of their skin. why?
Why shouldnt you become more diverse?
We could all benefit from more controlled envitonmemts, soundproofing and so on, ordinary people struggle to now a days.. theres so much going on and so little time to keep up..
Took me a long time to pluck uo the courage to watch this one. Good fair coverage of a very stupid way of spending research money where we apparently can get some good use out of it but not at all for autism. I choose autism awareness and personal accomodations any day over 'curing' a difference in brain type. What nonsense! The world wouldn't be half as advanced, broad or cool if it wasn't neurodivergence! Also, I loved the cheesy jokes. I'm a sucker for those. The gouda one was funny to a Dutchie who grew up abroad. Gouda on you for that one! Hahaha!
When you get a huge grant for a study, you have to make it published and hopefully as high as possible. For this you need to sell your work as best as possible and then you create a clickbate title because otherwise you will end up in a bad journal and your chances to get another funding will decrease. Also, you need to rush to publish before others and then not everything you do is done the most accurate way possible. This is not only the problem of autism research but it's a general problem in academical science. I would like also to mention here that the scientist from the paper didn't claim that their mice were autistic but they wrote "autisti-associated behaviaor". Unfortunately, the person writing a press article exacerbated everything, which is already another issue. Another point is that first in order to study a certain disease you have to start with cell culture and animal models. And only after you get promising results you can move to human studies. Of course, animal models won't minick everythng and obviously there are conditions which can't be reproduced in animals but if it's possible to mick a human condition at least to some extent in mice, it's a good starting point. Regarding the reason why nest building capbilities were included into ASD-traits in mice is that for mice it's typical social behavior. When we check whether the mice are doing well in the lab, nest building is one of the thing to pay attention on.
I loved the little jokes you included. I am still processing the topic...🤯
I'm not sure what exactly is your problem with the "mouse model of autism". It just means they study autistic traits in animals, and in this case mice. As many animals are social, and as autism is genetic, it's something very logical to look for and research. Not very different than studying other genetic traits that can be seen in animals too. Doesn't mean autistic people are animals (except in the sense that humans in general are animals, we're part of the animal kingdom, and share genetic codes and biological mechanisms with primates first and foremost and other animals second).
Also the idea that autism shoulnd't be attempt to be cured because "it's fine" and "is who I am" it's a privileged ASD 1 idea, not a "can't function without constant assistance" ASD 3 idea. Even many ASD1 and ASD 2 persons would still consider a cure, if not for the good parts, surely for the bad parts. If I could be more socially competent or less rigid and repeatitive without losing the unique preferences and perspectives, I'd give it a try.
As for "but it can't be cured, why they even try" angle, it's too early to be so cocksure about, when research is just getting started, and all that you know you learned from the same kind of researchers that you sneer at. Just a 3-4 decades ago they didn't even know "high functioning autism"/aspergers is a thing, they still don't have precice mechanisms and understanding of how it develops, and suddenly you know all there is to know medically about it, and they should stop research?
I mean, you say: "I don't think they would ever find anything straighforward enough to act in a kind of gene editing way". Should stop their research and pack it in then, the science has spoken! Who needs research when there are opinions? Surely the state of gene editing and understanding of genetic issues has peaked in 2023, nothing they might find that could possible change things in 2030 or 2050 for that matter!
🎵 parklife! 🎵
THANK YOU! How do I cite this? Ahahhaha. Keep up the great work
As long as the autism cure people are preoccupied with mice, at least they're not coming for us. And I doubt anything they learn by studying very broad and vague autism stereotypes in mice that could just as easily be stress responses will be applicable to autism in humans. Shame for the mice, though.
Squick squick squickety squick.
Oh sorry my mice genes were still turned on 😅😅 some of these researches are... Weird
The puns were hilarious 😂
Have you seen the movie "I Am Sam" ?? Is that how you named your channel?
I don't think we have a disorder. I think we're just different. Otherwise there really is no explanation of my friend who is a master bushman, but can't live in cities due to a panic response around too many people.
The guy can survive in nature unassisted. I think that's better than 99.9% of city folk :-)
As someone who's been on this pill, I can tell you it did not cure my autism. It did make quite a bit of my skin come off.