Long is no doubt the most successful and probably the best that’s ever played. But Waldner is my favourite player of all time. The style, finesse and artistry he played with was pure pleasure to watch
I still like Xu Xin most, because he is the only one who holds the racket correctly :D, and because of his easy going nature. Easy goingness goes against him as an athlete but I like him more because of it.
For Chinese players, winning the continental "All China Table Tennis Championships" is even more harder than the international world championships. Ma Long win 8 times is incredible! Ma Long is fast, powerful and strong! Waldner and Xu Xin are both very entertaining.
Xu xin is easily one of the most creative, innovative and "cloudwalker" tt players. Heck, he made me switch to pen hold the first time I saw him, and I can't be happier to call him my Xuperman. Yet, Ma long is the goat and dictator, I bow down to both of them. Fan and Lin Yun Ju are up there
But Ma Long is such a boring player. Takes very little risk. Hardly any surprising shots. He might win the most, but he'll never be as amazing as Waldner.
Lol,Fan Zhendong,the fat boy is already ahead of him a World Champion at 24,Ma Long couldn't even win the lowly World Cup before the age of 24.The more the level of competition is depleted,the more we will have GOATs in the titles inflation era LOL.Waldner played in the most competitive era.
After Tokyo 2021, I feel it's not even a debate anymore. Ma Long is the GOAT. His records and achievements are just out of the world. He achieved a lot in a shorter time compared to Waldner.
I think we should add the fact that, Ma also had won two Chinese National Championships, which might be even harder than win Olympics and WC... what a beast!
Ma Long is the undisputed GOAT as the game has progressed quickly in recent years with a much higher standard of play and improvement with equipment and rubbers, yet he has dominated so well! Ma Long gets my vote.
Actually, you will find that equipment is far less dominants now than when Waldner was at his peak. He was playing with 38mm cellulose balls and speed glue. The game was RIDICULOUSLY fast them which makes Waldner's artistry even more sublime. Certainly rubber technology is getting back to the performance levels of speed glue without the drawbacks, but the 40mm plastic ball is way, way slower.
@@alanmitchell4683 I have been considering your comment, Alan. Would Waldner have we reached the pinnacle of success if be had been playing with the modern ball and without speed glue? He certainly was the best player of his era and that is only my opinion, but I don't see him as being the GOAT. It's wonderful that everyone has their own opinion on the subject and it's great looking at every comment. Wouldn't it be sad if we all had the same opinion!
@@TableTennisReport Ma long was hardly even born then, so no. He have not had the need to adapt since the 38 mm ball was forbidden almost before he started playing table tennis. The game was much faster and had much more spin before with smaller ball and speed glue.
Waldner was absolutely incredible, he made some national players look like beginners. So glad I got to watch him play live, I lost interest around 1990 so I can’t commit on the others really. So obviously for me it’s Jan
The way Ma Long move is full of gracefulness, style, elegance, ingenuity, finesse and artfulness. Ma Long achievements made Waldner look like a novice. Too bad they did not count those traits and only the points.
Xhan Jike had a couple good years but Ma Long and Waldner maintained a great level for years and years. Poor Xu Xin had to live at the same time as Ma Long, but he is also up there. I think FZD will be the next Grand Slam Winner, but he also had to live at the same time as Ma Long.
Zhang Jike could've maintained more peak sadly his career got hindered by constant injuries after Rio. He has had more hiatus than he has played since 2017.
Man im in awe on zhang jike in prime form. The timing and precision in his loops are out of this world. Crazy topspin and pressure. Its like when we used to speed glue and u get that perfect sound.
@@misguidedkpopper8674 Jike's injuries date back to 2015 actually slowing his dominance down. That being said ZJK is perhaps the highest peak I've ever seen. He at his prime, you couldn't believe your eyes.
Although I am a bigger fan of Ove-Waldner, I have to agree with the narrator and his choice of Ma-Long, and the statistics strongly backs his selection. And Ma-long will be active for quite some more time. I hope he doesn't get injured like Shang Yie-ke. Long Life to the King!!!!!
China’s intensity of physical training and starting at a young age of 4-5 years old before a person’s body is fully athletic tolerant takes a toll on their players. I don’t think we will see China having a player that can have too long of a career lifespan, at least not at peak performance
@@linhaohoward That"s not true Ma Lin/Wang Liqin were in better shape than Ma Long in their 30's and they run around their backhands alot more.Ma Long has been injury ridden since his mid 20's.
@@dickn.ormous1064 Their injury is definitely alot higher. We are only looking at their medalist, but they have 100 times more players training since young as compared to any other country and even then you can only name such few that have a slightly more lasting career. 100 times might be exaggerated but it does prove a point. I'm not anti China or anything, just speaking the truth that the practice is over intensive for the age that they start training. There was an interview of a kid of a coach with 3 other elder siblings in the training program, in the interview they mentioned she vomited multiple times over the course of her training and she was younger than 6 year old.
I think that the peak best was Waldner (OS 92 and WM 97 with 1 set loss in singles is extremely good) I once saw him live toy with the then top ten player Kim Taek Soo in a way that shouldn't be possible, the overall best through the whole career is Ma Long (he is a bit more consistent and I think he will do well also in this olympics. Waldner did some less good performances also, -OS 96 for example). Waldner sometimes(often) played also to entertain (himself and the audience), that cost him a few matches when he lost concentration making things harder than they needed to be. He also wanted to promote the game when the match was broadcasted on TV. A bit more focus there on Ma long (apart from the strike bit which cost him nr1 position for some time). So Ma Long first and Waldner close after. These two are on a different level from anybody else. But that is only my humble opinion. Ranking legends is a very delicate matter and why should we do it? We can talk about table tennis before and after Waldner, the same with Ma Long (when he quits that is). We will then when combined cover a range from 1979 -202X(?). More than 40 years!
See comparisons are odious It is simply not possible to single out a single individual as the greatest. Each Generation has produced players of outstanding quality. So many factors as one of my bro pointed out that quality of bat and other equipment, including training has improved over the years players have access to the best of facilities. Quality of Competition all have to be accounted to. I still recall when Chinese were dominating the teams event in the late 70 s we had individual players from Japan and Europe winning g the singles championship. In 1975 world TT championship at Delhi the singles champion qas Istavan Jonyer from Hungary Then in 1977 it was Mitsu Kohno from Japan who won the singles at Birmingham UK In 1979 again it was another Japanese Player Seji Ono who was crowned world Champion. Then early 80s it was Chinese then earlobes it was Sweden led by the legendary Waldner who.won 2 world championship and was runner up on 3 occasions he contested 5 world singless final championships . He was also Olympic Champion in 1992 Very difficult to compare Even Ma Lin of China was a legend He won Olympic championship and many titles but never won a World championship title. Let us respect all the legends rather involving in the debate of GOAT
In terms of technical perfection, it is Ma Long without doubt. He is a machine, just incredible. On the other hand, Waldner was a pure genius, not even close to Ma Long's technical abilities, but still dominated table tennis for more than a decade
Ma Long's technical ability is pushing short-smashing to the body.He couldn't even hit through geriatric Samsonov in open rallies but Waldner did beat Samsonov at the 2000 Olympics.He'd be irrelevant in the speed glue era let alone the 38mm ball era.
@@dhruv9370 I agree Waldner is the greatest For no reason he is called the Mozart of Table Tennis In China he is the most revered international sportsman. Ma long may be Great ,but the competition for him is not there as was during Waldners days where si many world class European Players where there like Gatien Samsanov to name a few apart from Chinese Japanese and South Korea He is the Federer of Table Tennis most graceful unlike MA long So no comparison
I’d like to say something about your narration. You are doing an excellent job at painting the full picture of the players with background information and their personal dynamics. That makes you a great sports journalist. :clap:
@@TableTennisReport Worldwide fame. Long-lasting impact on the game. Brilliant inimitable style. Distinguished personality. Isn't it obvious who I'm talking about, Ma Long or Waldner? And BTW, somehow I think that the true GOAT would never jump on the tennis table.
Du är ju korkad. Waldner hade chans spela OS först vid 27 års ålder. Hur kan du jämföra det med någon har chans vid 19 redan att spela. Stor chans Waldner hade vunnit vid 23 års ålder OS också. Ma Long hade inte haft en chans på den tiden då inte gick slå hårt på allt som idag.
Liu's career was shorter than expected. Hadn't he retired so early who knows how many more titles he could have won. Although..increase in ball size did not favor his game style
After his second Olympic Gold Medal 2021 there is (with no doubt) only one player left on this list: Ma Long! His very variable and clever playing style, his sacrifice in spite of serious injured, his unbelievable effective setup serve, his wonderful and perfect forehand and the number of world championships and Olympic titles are almost unattainable milestones that really stands for his own.
Another good way is to include a player's win/loss record against his top opponents. That is, we need to measure how competitive has a player faced and how dominant a GOAT candidate has over his opponents.
Yes. And that would count out players like waldner. Waldner had a negative record against all top Chinese players he faced. Against Liu: 2-7. Against ma lin : 2-9. Against Wang liqin 2-4. ....
yes. probably.. on the other side: looking over to timo boll... he is not the greatest... but changend his style and his training because of his back and becoming older... and he is still one of the best even ma long still would be wise to play the best he could
Waldner i think is still the only one to win a WM without losing a singel set which was in 1997. He also won olympic games 92 with only losing 1 set. That makes him in my opinion the best player of all time
Wang Hao is still goat in my heart. Inspirational RBP, long lasting career, 18 champion titles. Shame that he didn’t get the Olympic gold, else he’d have a golden grand slam.
If he had won all all world championships finals and all olympic finals he would have been a 3 times grand slam champion because he won the world cup 3 times! As far as I know only FZD and Ma Lin won more world cups
Despite Wang Hao not being as dominant as some other players, he is still my all time favorite because of his unique style and mastery of his style. I have yet to see another RBP player who can play as well as he did.
Waldner was also a finalist in the World Cup in 1983 (he lost to his teammate and close friend Mikael Appelgren). And when he won the world championships in 1997 he did it without dropping a single game...something no one else had done before and no one has done it since then. For players to win a singles title in the world championships it was a much bigger accomplishment before the year 2000 because the singles were held after the teams championships in a two week event. A key player for his country would already have been under huge physical and mental pressure leading their team before having to back up in the singles.
It's easier to not drop a single game when it is played to 21. It allows more time for tactical variation/change whilst minimising the effects of momentum shifts.
@@primebore Nope,with the exception of one set against Gatien than ended 22-20 Waldner had a differce of at least 4 points.With the 11 point system he would lose 1 set the most.Ma Long drops games even to journey men.
Dont forget Gou Yao Hoa, who played during the "ping-pong diplomacy" era in the 70s. I saw him in the Team game vs Japan in -77. He played Takashima - the best defense player then - and he slautherd him ! Leaving Takashima with single digits. No one came near to his forehand drive ! Takashima sometimes manage the first attack , but never saw the next shot - even standing 5-6 meters back ! I sat next to the Swedish head coach, he just shaked his head throughout the match. In the singles final against Ono, he hardly attempted to win, and his drive was "gone".
That's a myth.Ono blocked his shots to the wide forehand and GYH got injured from the running.The guy was small and moved like a tank.It's no coincidence the Chinese didn't built on his style.
Waldner was the one that really raised the level of table tennis. Even China became stronger because of the presence of Waldner. For 3 decades he was a force to be reckoned with.
A common misconception. Waldner's peak was 1989 - 2000. His career lasted 3 decades but he was "a force to be reckoned with" for only about 1. I fully agree with your other claims however. Chinese players would not have been as sophisticated today if Waldner hadn't come. Perhaps the majority of them would still be utilizing traditional penhold? Who knows...
Btw it's surprising for me that since Wang Liqin and Wang Hao been mentioned several times in comment, nobody mentions Ma Lin for even once. For my perspective, nobody before nor in the future can calculate every rally so accurately like Ma Lin, even for Waldner, Liu Guoliang and Ma Long. He deserves a title of the most brilliant player ever and his style would never exist again.
Ma Lin was one of the first to incorporate reverse backhand, Wang Hao mastered it. It is really hard to decide between Wang Hao, Ma Lin and Wang Liqin on who was best. I will upload video about those three legends soon hopefully
Amazing video. Really liked it. Doesn't give the complete picture though without the mention of banning of Spinpips, increase in the ball size and introduction of plastic balls and how these changes impacted the players who were dominating the world of Table Tennis at the time those events occured.
@23:15 Think this is the most exciting match. They are both powerful, fast, deadly and accurate. But sadly, there could only be one winner 😣 This is an amazing compilation. Extensive coverage, reliable history/research to satisfy/refresh our memories. Much appreciated.
Jiang Jialiang was a fantastic player whose game was the most difficult to play with great consistency since he was extremely attacking with flat shots using short pimple rubber. He used only one side of the penhold blade, the traditional Chinese push and attack style.Jiang was the fastest player ever. Against Waldner in top form at the 39th WTTC, and a hostile crowd, he attacked relentlessly from 16-20 down in the last set to beat Waldner. That match had shots which cannot be seen these days. In the modern game there's a lot of safety due to extreme topspin and big ball both of which will keep the ball inside the table. To hit consistent flat shot is the highest skill. Currently active professional players are capable of impressive stuff due to better diet, conditioning and space-age materials for equipment. So the GOAT argument males no sense. A decade from now, there will be someone who's fitter, stronger, faster with hyper spin/speed blade and rubber who will make Ma Long and FZD second-rate.
This argument never counts, because if you discuss who is the goat you will always look how they performed against the contemporaries. They will also have the same equipment and materials avaiable and in the end you will have to factor these thing out.
I love Jiang's simplicity in style, the traditional Chinese push and attack style. It is a shame that he retired so early. I always wonder how Ma Long and Fan Zhendong would play against Jiang with the same rules and equipment.
Jiang was not particularly good at serve, and can be considered quite "sloppy" sometimes. But, his close to the table play was super fast and reliable. Yes, I haven't yet seen any people attack with flat shots better than he did.
@@VincentNganTK, true, his team mate Chen Longcan has awesome serves and better forehand topspin with TSP spinpips. Chen Longcan had a very powerful forehand, crushing 3rd ball attacks. Jiang had a finer touch, faster footwork and could adapt his game -- much smarter.
Just like in tennis it takes more skill to hit topspin,flat hitting takes less footwork,the timing is much easier,you don't have to integrate many techniques etc. That's why Jiang reached his peak really early whereas it took more time for Waldner to develop his game.But when Waldner found his stride he was better than Jiang who suffered to lefties loopers like Yoo Nam Kyu and Lindh.
And let's consider this: back in the 80's, Sweden had a population of just above 8 million and the population of China were just below 1 billion. If we should go into how many actually active table tennis players there was/is in each country, it would be even more impressive how Sweden managed to deliver someone like Waldner and several other great names.
Your argument doesnt stand by your ratio of population of people to people who t.t. If thats the case, chinese football team wiuld also be top 5 in the world, which isnt close to be true!
When you have Dragon in your name it's extra special just like Bruce Lee, the Little Dragon and the Legend. Ma Long definitely deserves the GOAT title.
Also, apart from the Grand Slam 3, the closest players to this honor are undoubtedly Ma Lin and Wang Liqin, especially Ma Lin. He was only one WTTC away from achieving it. He even won the most challenging gold medal at the 2008 Olympics, a distinction that is unparalleled in China. As for my personal favorite, Wang Hao, he not only possessed exceptional skills and abilities but also elevated the technique of "Reverse Penhold Backhand" to new heights. This contribution has been significant for the development of table tennis. what a great 6 yrs with big3 Wang-Wang-Ma compete each other!
Great video im a huge table tennis fan .It's a subjective question, we have the very same question about baseball & basketball, football players.From your deduction & investigation Ma lLong fills the catagory well. He is my favorite to win mens singles in gthe tokoyo olympics . Las vegas has him as no 2 after fan zandong. What do they know.
For me it will be always Waldner for his influence, play style and longevity. It's the same debate in Basketball with Jordan and lebron. It's beyond just stats. Ma long is still one of my favorites.
I just replied to one comment here, i belive that JO has that Jordan "aura" of greatness around him. There is just something mystical around those talents.. it's like they know that they will win :D
No, basketball is NO debate, MJ has more rings, and more influence, Lebron does NOT come close Difference between MJ and Lebron, is the same as Lebron vs me the random guy, NOT close at all Jordan represents the entire sports, Jordan has 6 rings vs Lebron only 4, Jordan has more MVPs, more Scoring titles, more influence, sold more shoes, have more fans, Jordan is better in EVERYTHING Jordan achieved more, with less years, meaning Lebron played more years but still failed to catch MJ in any achievement Sports is about the “height” not “longevity” A Texi car will run for 1 million miles, but it doesn’t make a Texi car better than a Ferrari Jordan is the Ferrari, Lebron is NOT close AT ALL Lebron is also NOT close to Waldner at all. Waldner won more than Lebron did. Lebron always got superstar team mates and still loses a lot Waldner won the second most championships in PingPong, a single player competition, no super star team mate help here, NOT the same things, cannot be compared
Yes. Ma Long is undoubtedly, unquestionably and un-arguably the greatest of all time. Just imagine if he wins the tokyo too. 💕💕.. Kindly keep creating such videos. And yes, eager to watch the upcoming video on Wang hao ma lin and wang liqin as you mentioned in this video... 💍💍👏👌👍
Ma Long secured his third Olympics and has earned another gold medal. He is the best table tennis player of all time: Ma Long won THREE GOLD in the world championship, TWO GOLD in the Olympics, and THREE GOLD in the world cup. Fan Zhendong won TWO GOLD in the world championship, ONE GOLD in the Olympics, and FOUR GOLD in the world cup. Zhang Jike won ONE GOLD in the world championships, ONE GOLD in the Olympics, and TWO GOLD in the world cup. Ma Lin won FOUR GOLD in the world cup and ONE GOLD in the Olympics. Waldner won TWO GOLD in the world championships, ONE GOLD in the Olympics, ONE GOLD in the world cup. Both Kong Linghui and Liu Guoliang won ONE GOLD each in the World championship, ONE in the olympics and ONE in the world cup. So do you think Waldner dominated over these Chinese players? He was fairly even with Kong Linghui and Liu Guoliang and they all share the same distinction of achieving a career grand slam, but Kong and Liu were not China's best players compared to the others listed above them. Waldner also continued to play 16 years after the Sydney Olympics and had never enjoyed the same level of success as he had in the early 90s. So Ma Long and Fan Zhendong are both better than Waldner by far. In terms of creativity, Xu Xin was more creative than Waldner. Waldner is certainly the BEST NON-CHINESE table tennis player.
I also need to add that the tallies above are for SINGLES events and does not include the teams or doubles matches where Ma Long and Fan Zendong has won even more events.
Waldner was too strong, in some tournaments he played so effortless, that it looked like he was bored asf. His game was just beautiful! Nobody can play like him
@@sumandas9487 cant compare era players vs other era players like that. So much changes in sports. Even things like glue, weight, shape, friction of the table and the rubbers on the rackets. Waldner did however face the chinese of HIS era, and at his peak, he dominated everyone. This is the way i compare athletes between eras. How dominant where they during their era? Ronaldo/Messi Vs. Maradona is a good example. Maradona was the best of his era, in current era there are atleast two, Ronaldo AND messi, more or less similar. Thus, by default Maradona was more dominant since no one else was at his level during his era. While the best ones of this era are debatable.
@@sumandas9487 Xu Xin was number 3 for more than half a decade and the guy didn't even have a bh.FZD is now considered an athlete with that pot belly?So much for the Chinese squad...
@@dickn.ormous1064 but xu xin have reverse pen hold back hand is it for now a days? generally pen hold player have same forehand used as backhand was xu xin used it when he was number 3 ?
In looking at the lifetime records of each players in top tournaments, one can also include how Chinese players performed in the two major table tennis championships inside China, the national China championship and the Marvellous 12 tournament, and how Europeans performed at the European championships. Ma Long for example has won the Chinese National Championships 3 times in single, 3 times in double and 2 times in mixed double. I cannot find information on the Marvellous 12 but I know that the level of play there is formidable. Another example of greatness: Timo Boll has won the European championship an amazing 7 times.
If Ma Long win 14 international championship but only 3 national China championship during the same period. Could we say that winning the national China Championship is even more difficult than an international one? Just wonder who is the top player than win the most number of national China championship.
The fact that waldner faced so many changes in the sport during his career such as Speedglueing, ballsize, setlenght and servicerules, and still could be in the top, proves to me that he was the greatest. Winning against the best chinese players for 3 decades.
@@abcdefgabcdefg6930 The older you are the more difficult it is to adjust your game because you have invested more hours to fine tune your technic and tactics. It's not that Waldner really adjusted to many changes he simply had the most weapons and could work his way to beat other players.In the early 90's he started playing closer to the table,perfected his spin/no spin serve and the following third ball attack.Other than that his game didn't really change.Of course he got more explosive in the late 80's when he started weight training. He did adopt some techniques from younger Europeans like Saive's attack of serve and Rosskopf's forehand smash but his game system remained pretty much the same cause it worked.
Unfortunately younger people don't remember Jiang Jia Liang who dominated in the 90''s. Find some clips on YT and see how wise, simple and efficient his style was.
@@daniellige5311 It's my honest to god opinion. However I find those who seem to disagree with me to be quite toxic. And who would want fans like that. So a win for me and Waldner I guess.
This was the one of the best documentary i have seen just beautifully documented end presented. As a high school pin pong champion this is just beautiful super hard game . Now i have even more respect to Swedish people.
I wouldn't say he's the best, but probably the biggest. He's been in the pro tour for a long time. But now it feels like he's mastered it, like no one can beat him. He has become table tennis's master.
Beautiful subsumption and modest presented! What you said, different criteria. Another could be the longest under top 10 or 20. Most individual style or technique and so on. Perfection might lead to victory but perfection very often is boring too. Anyhow..I really like your post!
Ma long is the goat for sure, but I still think Zhang Jike in his prime was the best. He just had too many injuries because his style was so explosive. He could flick any spin back no matter how fast. It was crazy.
Although video is pretty old, I have to say that, in his prime, Zhang Jike was the most well rounded player that I have ever seen. He was pure strength, reflexes, balanced forehand backhand, mental game, foot game, I mean… he was a beast
Waldner en Xuperman. Ma Long is great there is no denial, he is like the Djokovic of Tennis. But Waldner en Xuperman, have so much finesse, its entertaining to watch
His forehand is simply mesmerizing, i agree. I only fear that his lack of backhand will leave him without gold at world champs..i could be wrong though :D
@@benthekeeshond545 Wang was #1 for 27 consecutive months.He was one of the most stable players and don't forget he was playing in an era with the great Ma Lin and the other great Wang Liqin it's not easy to achieve something like this.3 silver medals in Olympics I don't speak for team medals because China is in a Demigod Level for the 21 st century.I have Wang maybe second greatest I put Ma Long as the greatest not because he took his second gold today I was saying this before his second Olympics medal and maybe Ma Lin or Xu Xin or Wang Liqin or Waldner after
@@sprtingeteb1396 It is hard to read and understand what you wrote. Please use a few commas and periods. What I wrote before could be a cruel joke but I didn't say Wang Hao was no good. All respect for someone who competed in 3 straight Olympic Gold finals. That was within a time frame of 12 years. Nothing but impressive.
@@benthekeeshond545 I didn't use commas and periods my bad for this.I didn't say you speak shit for Wang Hao i just wanted to tell my opinion because i want to hear for others what's their opinion about Wang Hao because for me maybe he is the second greatest after Ma that's all
Waldner for sure. He beat 5 generations of top Chinese players. He won the olympics in Barcelona 1992 by 18-1 in sets. He won his first gold in big international single tournaments in 1986 and his last in 2002. In 2004 he came 4th in the olympics at the age of 39. His last national gold was in 2010 at the ripe age of 45.
@ler9951 The difference is that Ma fans only cite results and titles, Waldner fans cite love for the game. There is no "cope", because no one gives a shit about whether Waldner is the "official GOAT" or not. We already know that 20 years from now, his matches will still be watched. You think Ma Long's will be?
@@Nerdcrusherlmaoo your having debate but admit your opinions is based on feelings not facts or titles 😂, so you outright admit you are wrong and only arguing your feeling 😂. That’s ok to be delusional as long as you admit it lol, ma is also wayyy more popular than waldner 😂
@@Nerdcrusherlike Adam bobrow said anyone who says waldner are 100% talking from feeling not fact and that’s ok but you are wrong lmaoo and everyone knows it
There's no question Ma Long is the best. He reached his peak before the Brazil Olympic, and he was simply perfect at the time. Now he is "old" but he still wants to help the team. He deserves a lot of respect.
I would say Ma Long is old to be the absolute best in TT. TT is different than other sports. TT requires both reflex and quickness. Both extreme reflex and quickness go downhill around the age of 28.
Ma Long reached his peak at 24-26 just any top athlete but he was blocked by Wang Hao.There are not many young players around which makes him like an "evergreen" which he isn't. Even Wang Hao was forced to retire at 30 and he was in better physical shape than Ma Long but current generation of players is too weak so they still have to rely on Ma Long. Kong Linghui was destined by his coaches to become an evergreen in a quest to mimic Waldner's career but he was beaten to death by Schlager and quietly disappeared .
Waldner es como federer no es tan solo por los títulos Marcó una nueva forma de jugar contra los jugadores chinos que dominaban hasta su llegada Waldner vive en el corazón igual que federer Para mi eso tiene mas peso emocional Waldner es el mejor de todos los tiempos
Hey. I can't describe how amazing and wonderful this is. I want to say few things. But before that, is this video from some other channel or you yourself have created it?
@@TableTennisReport great. Kudos for the work. So is this your first video? If yes, trust me, if you keep creating this type of content then you will make it big on TH-cam in tt genre....
Please do one for women’s! I’d be so happy if you can a comparison between Dengyaping and the other women’s grand slam champions as your information is so accurate. I know Zhang Yining is short of one title to have won all possible singles titles, like Ma Long, but she did also achieve double grand slam, and the only player to do so.
Achievement-wise or gymnastically, and objectively Ma Long is undoubtedly the g.o.a.t! Artistically and creatively Waldner is, even though he failed four times in winning the gold medal when he played 5 time Olympics. Waldner was the g.o.a.t at the old era and Ma long is truly the g.o.a.t! Salute two greatest male table tennis players in history!
Long is no doubt the most successful and probably the best that’s ever played.
But Waldner is my favourite player of all time. The style, finesse and artistry he played with was pure pleasure to watch
No doubt, The Mozart and The Ever Green Tree Jan-Ove Waldner
Waldner also played during an era where the competition was WAY harder than for Long.
👍
FYI, "Ma" (as in "Ma Long") is a family name, like "Waldner" (as in "Jan-Ove Waldner").
As of 31st July 2021, Ma is the only double grand slammer, the only player to have defended all his titles.
And I'm a weeping Xu Xin fan 😭😭😭
I still like Xu Xin most, because he is the only one who holds the racket correctly :D, and because of his easy going nature. Easy goingness goes against him as an athlete but I like him more because of it.
Xuxin play tt like an artist！
@@賴志偉-d7h So do I. His 360 attacks are unstoppable.
For Chinese players, winning the continental "All China Table Tennis Championships" is even more harder than the international world championships. Ma Long win 8 times is incredible! Ma Long is fast, powerful and strong!
Waldner and Xu Xin are both very entertaining.
Xu xin is easily one of the most creative, innovative and "cloudwalker" tt players. Heck, he made me switch to pen hold the first time I saw him, and I can't be happier to call him my Xuperman. Yet, Ma long is the goat and dictator, I bow down to both of them. Fan and Lin Yun Ju are up there
come here after Ma long won his second Olympic gold, end of controversial, Malong the GOAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No more debate...
Case closed
But Ma Long is such a boring player. Takes very little risk. Hardly any surprising shots. He might win the most, but he'll never be as amazing as Waldner.
@@wfberkhof yep ma long style is focusing on winning the match but lack of showman, however waldner, he has a unique style and fun to watch
@@wfberkhof Ma Long takes a lot of risks but doesn't fuck around foolishly. Even waldner was not as exciting as guys like koki niwa and Xu xin are.
The debate is over, Ma Long is the greatest of all times, what a time to be alive
Yes sir! Ma Long = GOAT!
Ma Long is the best of all time, but Waldner wasthe one who play most beautifully.
Lol,Fan Zhendong,the fat boy is already ahead of him a World Champion at 24,Ma Long couldn't even win the lowly World Cup before the age of 24.The more the level of competition is depleted,the more we will have GOATs in the titles inflation era LOL.Waldner played in the most competitive era.
Ma Long played in the weak era
Ma Long played in the weak era
After Tokyo 2021, I feel it's not even a debate anymore. Ma Long is the GOAT. His records and achievements are just out of the world. He achieved a lot in a shorter time compared to Waldner.
Exactly! Ma Long = GOAT! Is it even a question after he blew everybody away like the way he did?
@@grandwonder5858 In
B v
N .
N mm nmb mm b
B m ml B b mom
Bb
B NBC cv m.v B . B bmm
c
Waldner is close 2nd, but the race is officially over! Dragon is on top of the world!
@@TableTennisReport YES, YES, YES. MA LONG IS THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME. YEAH!!!!
Also the game is way more athletic than back in the days
Today’s 30th July , 2021 I can say Ma Long is the Greatest of All Time 🤩💫
MALONG actually won two laps of Grand Slam (two World Cups, two World Championships, two Olympics). Human miracle.
He just won the olympics dude, so he might be today's greatest player.
@@jwp3821 3⃣ world championships
I think we should add the fact that, Ma also had won two Chinese National Championships, which might be even harder than win Olympics and WC... what a beast!
Indeed!
Ma Long for sure after his 2nd Olympic Gold no arguments no if, s and buts Ma long is the G. O. A. T
Ma Long is the undisputed GOAT as the game has progressed quickly in recent years with a much higher standard of play and improvement with equipment and rubbers, yet he has dominated so well! Ma Long gets my vote.
He just won the second gold medal at olympics, he is now a double grand slam champion lol
Actually, you will find that equipment is far less dominants now than when Waldner was at his peak. He was playing with 38mm cellulose balls and speed glue. The game was RIDICULOUSLY fast them which makes Waldner's artistry even more sublime. Certainly rubber technology is getting back to the performance levels of speed glue without the drawbacks, but the 40mm plastic ball is way, way slower.
Great observation friend. Change of equipment can impact players in s bad way. Ma long..however..did not let changes to distract him, he adapted
@@alanmitchell4683 I have been considering your comment, Alan. Would Waldner have we reached the pinnacle of success if be had been playing with the modern ball and without speed glue? He certainly was the best player of his era and that is only my opinion, but I don't see him as being the GOAT. It's wonderful that everyone has their own opinion on the subject and it's great looking at every comment. Wouldn't it be sad if we all had the same opinion!
@@TableTennisReport Ma long was hardly even born then, so no. He have not had the need to adapt since the 38 mm ball was forbidden almost before he started playing table tennis. The game was much faster and had much more spin before with smaller ball and speed glue.
Waldner was absolutely incredible, he made some national players look like beginners. So glad I got to watch him play live, I lost interest around 1990 so I can’t commit on the others really. So obviously for me it’s Jan
Waldner lost in 1st round twice 2003 and 1996.
@@sergioyichiong7269 when he was in his late 50’s lol
He dominated the world in TT at his peak!
The way Ma Long move is full of gracefulness, style, elegance, ingenuity, finesse and artfulness. Ma Long achievements made Waldner look like a novice. Too bad they did not count those traits and only the points.
The Dragon is the best player of all time!!!
Sure is, friend 💪🏓
Each one of them has a unique style and I can enjoy them play all the time. What a great sport to have so many great players!
I agree completely 🤗🏓
Xhan Jike had a couple good years but Ma Long and Waldner maintained a great level for years and years. Poor Xu Xin had to live at the same time as Ma Long, but he is also up there. I think FZD will be the next Grand Slam Winner, but he also had to live at the same time as Ma Long.
Zhang Jike could've maintained more peak sadly his career got hindered by constant injuries after Rio. He has had more hiatus than he has played since 2017.
@Kai Nakrit IIRC even during Rio Olympics he had a back injury. I remember reading that and it explained his straight set defeat during the finals.
Xu Xin is the best in my opinion, such a finesse player
Man im in awe on zhang jike in prime form. The timing and precision in his loops are out of this world. Crazy topspin and pressure. Its like when we used to speed glue and u get that perfect sound.
@@misguidedkpopper8674 Jike's injuries date back to 2015 actually slowing his dominance down. That being said ZJK is perhaps the highest peak I've ever seen. He at his prime, you couldn't believe your eyes.
Although I am a bigger fan of Ove-Waldner, I have to agree with the narrator and his choice of Ma-Long, and the statistics strongly backs his selection. And Ma-long will be active for quite some more time. I hope he doesn't get injured like Shang Yie-ke. Long Life to the King!!!!!
China’s intensity of physical training and starting at a young age of 4-5 years old before a person’s body is fully athletic tolerant takes a toll on their players. I don’t think we will see China having a player that can have too long of a career lifespan, at least not at peak performance
@@linhaohoward That"s not true Ma Lin/Wang Liqin were in better shape than Ma Long in their 30's and they run around their backhands alot more.Ma Long has been injury ridden since his mid 20's.
@@dickn.ormous1064 Their injury is definitely alot higher. We are only looking at their medalist, but they have 100 times more players training since young as compared to any other country and even then you can only name such few that have a slightly more lasting career. 100 times might be exaggerated but it does prove a point.
I'm not anti China or anything, just speaking the truth that the practice is over intensive for the age that they start training. There was an interview of a kid of a coach with 3 other elder siblings in the training program, in the interview they mentioned she vomited multiple times over the course of her training and she was younger than 6 year old.
Agreed. Walker my favorite but Ma Long deserves current goat status. Waldner was previous goat in my opinion and had a long run as such.
"silly child, I was planning to hang that jersey up at home" lol
After Ma Long winning Olympic 2020, his second Olympic gold and have two grand slams. There is no doubt the GOAT table tennis player is Ma Long
And rightfully so 🏓
I think that the peak best was Waldner (OS 92 and WM 97 with 1 set loss in singles is extremely good) I once saw him live toy with the then top ten player Kim Taek Soo in a way that shouldn't be possible, the overall best through the whole career is Ma Long (he is a bit more consistent and I think he will do well also in this olympics. Waldner did some less good performances also, -OS 96 for example). Waldner sometimes(often) played also to entertain (himself and the audience), that cost him a few matches when he lost concentration making things harder than they needed to be. He also wanted to promote the game when the match was broadcasted on TV. A bit more focus there on Ma long (apart from the strike bit which cost him nr1 position for some time). So Ma Long first and Waldner close after. These two are on a different level from anybody else. But that is only my humble opinion. Ranking legends is a very delicate matter and why should we do it? We can talk about table tennis before and after Waldner, the same with Ma Long (when he quits that is). We will then when combined cover a range from 1979 -202X(?). More than 40 years!
Great analysis, do you have an example of Waldner playing to entertain thus losing concentracion (i would really like to try and find on youtube :D)
See comparisons are odious
It is simply not possible to single out a single individual as the greatest.
Each Generation has produced players of outstanding quality.
So many factors as one of my bro pointed out that quality of bat and other equipment, including training has improved over the years players have access to the best of facilities.
Quality of Competition all have to be accounted to.
I still recall when Chinese were dominating the teams event in the late 70 s we had individual players from Japan and Europe winning g the singles championship.
In 1975 world TT championship at Delhi the singles champion qas Istavan Jonyer from Hungary
Then in 1977 it was Mitsu Kohno from Japan who won the singles at Birmingham UK
In 1979 again it was another Japanese Player Seji Ono who was crowned world Champion.
Then early 80s it was Chinese then earlobes it was Sweden led by the legendary Waldner who.won 2 world championship and was runner up on 3 occasions he contested 5 world singless final championships .
He was also Olympic Champion in 1992
Very difficult to compare
Even Ma Lin of China was a legend
He won Olympic championship and many titles but never won a World championship title.
Let us respect all the legends rather involving in the debate of GOAT
No doubt, The Mozart and The Ever Green Tree Jan-Ove Waldner
So if waldner loses a match its because he lost concentration?
Hahha
@@sundaramiyer6685its not dificult. Since all these players had the chance to play OG only one won 2 times.
In terms of technical perfection, it is Ma Long without doubt. He is a machine, just incredible. On the other hand, Waldner was a pure genius, not even close to Ma Long's technical abilities, but still dominated table tennis for more than a decade
ma long dominated table tennis since 2009
Waldner is close to ma long in terms of technical abilities. Someone has to be first among equals. That person happens to be ma long.
Ma Long's technical ability is pushing short-smashing to the body.He couldn't even hit through geriatric Samsonov in open rallies but Waldner did beat Samsonov at the 2000 Olympics.He'd be irrelevant in the speed glue era let alone the 38mm ball era.
It's Waldner for me 🤷♂️
@@dhruv9370
I agree Waldner is the greatest
For no reason he is called the Mozart of Table Tennis
In China he is the most revered international sportsman.
Ma long may be Great ,but the competition for him is not there as was during Waldners days where si many world class European Players where there like Gatien Samsanov to name a few apart from Chinese Japanese and South Korea
He is the Federer of Table Tennis most graceful unlike MA long
So no comparison
Ma Lon became the legend of tennis history yesterday.
He was already a legend, now he is a immortal legend :D
Liu Guoliang is the best considering player+coach. Waldner is so great that he played with almost all the other giants, in several decades.
No doubt, The Mozart and The Ever Green Tree Jan-Ove Waldner
Great video! I totally agree on first place for Ma Long!
Ma Long become the GOAT of all GOATS now... no debate !
I’d like to say something about your narration. You are doing an excellent job at painting the full picture of the players with background information and their personal dynamics. That makes you a great sports journalist. :clap:
Ma Long is the best of all times. No question about it. And I say that despite I'm swedish and J-O Wallner is my favourite....
Yes, Ma Long is the best. But Waldner is the greatest.
Have heart, JOW is still among gods of table tennis 😎🏓
@@TableTennisReport Worldwide fame. Long-lasting impact on the game. Brilliant inimitable style. Distinguished personality. Isn't it obvious who I'm talking about, Ma Long or Waldner?
And BTW, somehow I think that the true GOAT would never jump on the tennis table.
@@maksimkempe3425 lol ma long is better than Waldner in every single aspect. He’s the best and the greatest Waldner doesn’t even compare
Du är ju korkad. Waldner hade chans spela OS först vid 27 års ålder. Hur kan du jämföra det med någon har chans vid 19 redan att spela. Stor chans Waldner hade vunnit vid 23 års ålder OS också. Ma Long hade inte haft en chans på den tiden då inte gick slå hårt på allt som idag.
Personally I like Guoliang Liu, beside his own golds, he thought so many bests...刘国梁，除了他自己取得的成绩，他带出了大批 的冠军！
Liu's career was shorter than expected. Hadn't he retired so early who knows how many more titles he could have won. Although..increase in ball size did not favor his game style
@@TableTennisReport 针对他改了两次规则：遮挡发球（他得分的武器之一）和球的大小，所以才无奈退役
@@TableTennisReport Rules changed twice just for him!
Best video on table i seen on table tennis thank you please make more such video
New video is up :D
After his second Olympic Gold Medal 2021 there is (with no doubt) only one player left on this list: Ma Long! His very variable and clever playing style, his sacrifice in spite of serious injured, his unbelievable effective setup serve, his wonderful and perfect forehand and the number of world championships and Olympic titles are almost unattainable milestones that really stands for his own.
Two olympic golds are really almost impossible to obtain in table tennis i would say
@TableTennisReport but if there is no injury zhang could be dominated him
Zhang Jike is my favorite. He’s the legend. ❤️
我是最欣赏张继科的暴力美，他在球场上的魅力无与伦比，享受
@@judyzhu5828 他打的比賽真的好好看！
我也如此認為，張繼科打球有天赋，輕鬆，有讓人驚訝的贏球。如果不是受傷，他還能贏很多獎牌，太可惜了。
Another good way is to include a player's win/loss record against his top opponents. That is, we need to measure how competitive has a player faced and how dominant a GOAT candidate has over his opponents.
Yes. And that would count out players like waldner. Waldner had a negative record against all top Chinese players he faced. Against Liu: 2-7. Against ma lin : 2-9. Against Wang liqin 2-4. ....
Olympics in four years just make it tough for some greats to achieve this greatness.
Wow this is beautiful, so definitely if it wasn't for the back and shoulder injuries zhang jike would be still a menace
yes. probably.. on the other side: looking over to timo boll... he is not the greatest... but changend his style and his training because of his back and becoming older... and he is still one of the best even ma long still would be wise to play the best he could
Thank you, i agree, ZJK would probably eon another world cup or two
Waldner i think is still the only one to win a WM without losing a singel set which was in 1997. He also won olympic games 92 with only losing 1 set.
That makes him in my opinion the best player of all time
Coolest, most stylish and best non Chinese player ever: J-O Waldner
Best player ever: Ma Long
totally agree.
Wang Hao is still goat in my heart. Inspirational RBP, long lasting career, 18 champion titles. Shame that he didn’t get the Olympic gold, else he’d have a golden grand slam.
One of my favourite players. I was so heartbroken when he lost in 2012 in London 🥺
华而不实的直拍横打，心里素质极差。王励勤让球给他也拿不到冠军。史上最差最被高估的中国男选手，没有之一
If he had won all all world championships finals and all olympic finals he would have been a 3 times grand slam champion because he won the world cup 3 times! As far as I know only FZD and Ma Lin won more world cups
Despite Wang Hao not being as dominant as some other players, he is still my all time favorite because of his unique style and mastery of his style. I have yet to see another RBP player who can play as well as he did.
@@寡人今日不上朝 扯淡，那摧枯拉朽的反手到你这里成为华而不实，你听信所谓的让球谣言是对所有运动员努力的最大不尊重
Waldner was also a finalist in the World Cup in 1983 (he lost to his teammate and close friend Mikael Appelgren). And when he won the world championships in 1997 he did it without dropping a single game...something no one else had done before and no one has done it since then. For players to win a singles title in the world championships it was a much bigger accomplishment before the year 2000 because the singles were held after the teams championships in a two week event. A key player for his country would already have been under huge physical and mental pressure leading their team before having to back up in the singles.
It's easier to not drop a single game when it is played to 21. It allows more time for tactical variation/change whilst minimising the effects of momentum shifts.
@@primebore Nope,with the exception of one set against Gatien than ended 22-20 Waldner had a differce of at least 4 points.With the 11 point system he would lose 1 set the most.Ma Long drops games even to journey men.
@@dickn.ormous1064 Dick is just a Ma Long hater and Waldner worshipper
Dont forget Gou Yao Hoa, who played during the "ping-pong diplomacy" era in the 70s. I saw him in the Team game vs Japan in -77. He played Takashima - the best defense player then - and he slautherd him ! Leaving Takashima with single digits. No one came near to his forehand drive ! Takashima sometimes manage the first attack , but never saw the next shot - even standing 5-6 meters back ! I sat next to the Swedish head coach, he just shaked his head throughout the match. In the singles final against Ono, he hardly attempted to win, and his drive was "gone".
i really wish there is more 70's table tennis videos. Back then you had 10 players with 10 different techniques, must had been fun to watch
That's a myth.Ono blocked his shots to the wide forehand and GYH got injured from the running.The guy was small and moved like a tank.It's no coincidence the Chinese didn't built on his style.
Waldner was the one that really raised the level of table tennis. Even China became stronger because of the presence of Waldner. For 3 decades he was a force to be reckoned with.
@@defuwan4337 keep your friends close and enemies closer
yes, Cruyff also changed football, but he is not the greatest.
@@gold9994 you compared individual and team effort,really?!!
A common misconception. Waldner's peak was 1989 - 2000. His career lasted 3 decades but he was "a force to be reckoned with" for only about 1. I fully agree with your other claims however. Chinese players would not have been as sophisticated today if Waldner hadn't come. Perhaps the majority of them would still be utilizing traditional penhold? Who knows...
@@defuwan4337 So is Timo Boll. More popular in China than in Europe or even Germany
True greatness is when you can defend your titles and Ma Long is the only one who successfully defended his titles
Btw it's surprising for me that since Wang Liqin and Wang Hao been mentioned several times in comment, nobody mentions Ma Lin for even once. For my perspective, nobody before nor in the future can calculate every rally so accurately like Ma Lin, even for Waldner, Liu Guoliang and Ma Long. He deserves a title of the most brilliant player ever and his style would never exist again.
Absolutely correct. The master of backhand.
@@fionajack5006 Wait. Backhand? Ma Lin?
@@hanshuang6438 sorry the master of penhold
马林老厉害了
Ma Lin was one of the first to incorporate reverse backhand, Wang Hao mastered it. It is really hard to decide between Wang Hao, Ma Lin and Wang Liqin on who was best. I will upload video about those three legends soon hopefully
Amazing video. Really liked it. Doesn't give the complete picture though without the mention of banning of Spinpips, increase in the ball size and introduction of plastic balls and how these changes impacted the players who were dominating the world of Table Tennis at the time those events occured.
...damn... the moment when you subscribe and realize after that this channel has only one video :(
Hahaa, i will upload another video soon, i promise :D
@@TableTennisReport can you please do a female best player of all time? I really liked this video! :D
@@CloudGazer37 i will, of course! :)
@23:15 Think this is the most exciting match. They are both powerful, fast, deadly and accurate. But sadly, there could only be one winner 😣 This is an amazing compilation. Extensive coverage, reliable history/research to satisfy/refresh our memories.
Much appreciated.
Thank you, always a pleasure to upload historical videos :D
Jiang Jialiang was a fantastic player whose game was the most difficult to play with great consistency since he was extremely attacking with flat shots using short pimple rubber. He used only one side of the penhold blade, the traditional Chinese push and attack style.Jiang was the fastest player ever. Against Waldner in top form at the 39th WTTC, and a hostile crowd, he attacked relentlessly from 16-20 down in the last set to beat Waldner. That match had shots which cannot be seen these days. In the modern game there's a lot of safety due to extreme topspin and big ball both of which will keep the ball inside the table. To hit consistent flat shot is the highest skill. Currently active professional players are capable of impressive stuff due to better diet, conditioning and space-age materials for equipment. So the GOAT argument males no sense. A decade from now, there will be someone who's fitter, stronger, faster with hyper spin/speed blade and rubber who will make Ma Long and FZD second-rate.
This argument never counts, because if you discuss who is the goat you will always look how they performed against the contemporaries. They will also have the same equipment and materials avaiable and in the end you will have to factor these thing out.
I love Jiang's simplicity in style, the traditional Chinese push and attack style. It is a shame that he retired so early. I always wonder how Ma Long and Fan Zhendong would play against Jiang with the same rules and equipment.
Jiang was not particularly good at serve, and can be considered quite "sloppy" sometimes. But, his close to the table play was super fast and reliable. Yes, I haven't yet seen any people attack with flat shots better than he did.
@@VincentNganTK, true, his team mate Chen Longcan has awesome serves and better forehand topspin with TSP spinpips. Chen Longcan had a very powerful forehand, crushing 3rd ball attacks. Jiang had a finer touch, faster footwork and could adapt his game -- much smarter.
Just like in tennis it takes more skill to hit topspin,flat hitting takes less footwork,the timing is much easier,you don't have to integrate many techniques etc.
That's why Jiang reached his peak really early whereas it took more time for Waldner to develop his game.But when Waldner found his stride he was better than Jiang who suffered to lefties loopers like Yoo Nam Kyu and Lindh.
And let's consider this: back in the 80's, Sweden had a population of just above 8 million and the population of China were just below 1 billion. If we should go into how many actually active table tennis players there was/is in each country, it would be even more impressive how Sweden managed to deliver someone like Waldner and several other great names.
True.
Sweden had 8 professional players, China 100.000.
What happen to the rest of the world.
stu pid
Your argument doesnt stand by your ratio of population of people to people who t.t. If thats the case, chinese football team wiuld also be top 5 in the world, which isnt close to be true!
I think this question is not easy to answer! It also depends on good coaching! They are all great champions!
Ma Long .. the best ever.. greatest era in TT when the chinese have upped the ante so much.. fabulous
Chinese Era of ZJK, Ma Long and Xu Xin will forever be remembered!
When you have Dragon in your name it's extra special just like Bruce Lee, the Little Dragon and the Legend. Ma Long definitely deserves the GOAT title.
Also, apart from the Grand Slam 3, the closest players to this honor are undoubtedly Ma Lin and Wang Liqin, especially Ma Lin. He was only one WTTC away from achieving it. He even won the most challenging gold medal at the 2008 Olympics, a distinction that is unparalleled in China. As for my personal favorite, Wang Hao, he not only possessed exceptional skills and abilities but also elevated the technique of "Reverse Penhold Backhand" to new heights. This contribution has been significant for the development of table tennis. what a great 6 yrs with big3 Wang-Wang-Ma compete each other!
17:50 I really feel sorry for Wang Hao. He will always be known as the world's 2nd best player.
He wins this olympics, he will put himself clear above the rest to the point that there can be no bias, just facts
He won, now henis 2x gold medalist, 2 grand slams ✌️
Great video im a huge table tennis fan .It's a subjective question, we have the very same question about baseball & basketball, football players.From your deduction & investigation Ma lLong fills the catagory well. He is my favorite to win mens singles in gthe tokoyo olympics . Las vegas has him as no 2 after fan zandong. What do they know.
Thank you, Vegas doesn't know ;)
For me it will be always Waldner for his influence, play style and longevity. It's the same debate in Basketball with Jordan and lebron. It's beyond just stats. Ma long is still one of my favorites.
I just replied to one comment here, i belive that JO has that Jordan "aura" of greatness around him. There is just something mystical around those talents.. it's like they know that they will win :D
No, basketball is NO debate, MJ has more rings, and more influence, Lebron does NOT come close
Difference between MJ and Lebron, is the same as Lebron vs me the random guy, NOT close at all
Jordan represents the entire sports, Jordan has 6 rings vs Lebron only 4, Jordan has more MVPs, more Scoring titles, more influence, sold more shoes, have more fans, Jordan is better in EVERYTHING
Jordan achieved more, with less years, meaning Lebron played more years but still failed to catch MJ in any achievement
Sports is about the “height” not “longevity”
A Texi car will run for 1 million miles, but it doesn’t make a Texi car better than a Ferrari
Jordan is the Ferrari, Lebron is NOT close AT ALL
Lebron is also NOT close to Waldner at all. Waldner won more than Lebron did. Lebron always got superstar team mates and still loses a lot
Waldner won the second most championships in PingPong, a single player competition, no super star team mate help here, NOT the same things, cannot be compared
@@TableTennisReport kareem and wilt...ynwa=)
Yes. Ma Long is undoubtedly, unquestionably and un-arguably the greatest of all time. Just imagine if he wins the tokyo too. 💕💕.. Kindly keep creating such videos. And yes, eager to watch the upcoming video on Wang hao ma lin and wang liqin as you mentioned in this video... 💍💍👏👌👍
Thank you, i will. I have few ideas besides Wang Hai Ma Lin and Wang Liqin
@@otisskopik1400 what makes you think so?
@@otisskopik1400 Such a moronic way to rate people
Sadly he not, in modern time yes he is. Go look back history of table tennis.
@@Spacevet he is the greatest of the past as well as the present...please go to sleep if you disagree:::
In my opinion, despite the shorter carrier period for Zhang Jike I believe Zhang could be the first place if he had more time.
Greatest player of all time without a question, Waldner!
Thank you for a very good and fun video! 😃👍
I am glad you like it. Cheers! :D
Ma Long secured his third Olympics and has earned another gold medal. He is the best table tennis player of all time:
Ma Long won THREE GOLD in the world championship, TWO GOLD in the Olympics, and THREE GOLD in the world cup.
Fan Zhendong won TWO GOLD in the world championship, ONE GOLD in the Olympics, and FOUR GOLD in the world cup.
Zhang Jike won ONE GOLD in the world championships, ONE GOLD in the Olympics, and TWO GOLD in the world cup.
Ma Lin won FOUR GOLD in the world cup and ONE GOLD in the Olympics.
Waldner won TWO GOLD in the world championships, ONE GOLD in the Olympics, ONE GOLD in the world cup.
Both Kong Linghui and Liu Guoliang won ONE GOLD each in the World championship, ONE in the olympics and ONE in the world cup.
So do you think Waldner dominated over these Chinese players? He was fairly even with Kong Linghui and Liu Guoliang and they all share the same distinction of achieving a career grand slam, but Kong and Liu were not China's best players compared to the others listed above them. Waldner also continued to play 16 years after the Sydney Olympics and had never enjoyed the same level of success as he had in the early 90s.
So Ma Long and Fan Zhendong are both better than Waldner by far. In terms of creativity, Xu Xin was more creative than Waldner. Waldner is certainly the BEST NON-CHINESE table tennis player.
I also need to add that the tallies above are for SINGLES events and does not include the teams or doubles matches where Ma Long and Fan Zendong has won even more events.
Loved this video, please make more content like this.
Waldner was too strong, in some tournaments he played so effortless, that it looked like he was bored asf. His game was just beautiful! Nobody can play like him
That is true. His game seemed so effortless
true but he does not faced this chinise squad.
@@sumandas9487 cant compare era players vs other era players like that. So much changes in sports. Even things like glue, weight, shape, friction of the table and the rubbers on the rackets. Waldner did however face the chinese of HIS era, and at his peak, he dominated everyone. This is the way i compare athletes between eras. How dominant where they during their era? Ronaldo/Messi Vs. Maradona is a good example. Maradona was the best of his era, in current era there are atleast two, Ronaldo AND messi, more or less similar. Thus, by default Maradona was more dominant since no one else was at his level during his era. While the best ones of this era are debatable.
@@sumandas9487 Xu Xin was number 3 for more than half a decade and the guy didn't even have a bh.FZD is now considered an athlete with that pot belly?So much for the Chinese squad...
@@dickn.ormous1064 but xu xin have reverse pen hold back hand is it for now a days? generally pen hold player have same forehand used as backhand was xu xin used it when he was number 3 ?
Thanks for making this wonderfully informative video.
In looking at the lifetime records of each players in top tournaments, one can also include how Chinese players performed in the two major table tennis championships inside China, the national China championship and the Marvellous 12 tournament, and how Europeans performed at the European championships. Ma Long for example has won the Chinese National Championships 3 times in single, 3 times in double and 2 times in mixed double. I cannot find information on the Marvellous 12 but I know that the level of play there is formidable. Another example of greatness: Timo Boll has won the European championship an amazing 7 times.
If Ma Long win 14 international championship but only 3 national China championship during the same period. Could we say that winning the national China Championship is even more difficult than an international one? Just wonder who is the top player than win the most number of national China championship.
@@morris5439 ma long won 2 (2013,2017)
Waldner won the Europe top12 7 times.Those players he beat did beat the Chinese at the Slams,even the veterans such as Klampar/Grubba.
Wonderful video. Thank you very much for making this.
The fact that waldner faced so many changes in the sport during his career such as Speedglueing, ballsize, setlenght and servicerules, and still could be in the top, proves to me that he was the greatest. Winning against the best chinese players for 3 decades.
but also his opponent faced that changes wahhhhhhh ok
@@abcdefgabcdefg6930 his opponents rarely had the same career span, except for probably persson.
@@abcdefgabcdefg6930 The older you are the more difficult it is to adjust your game because you have invested more hours to fine tune your technic and tactics.
It's not that Waldner really adjusted to many changes he simply had the most weapons and could work his way to beat other players.In the early 90's he started playing closer to the table,perfected his spin/no spin serve and the following third ball attack.Other than that his game didn't really change.Of course he got more explosive in the late 80's when he started weight training.
He did adopt some techniques from younger Europeans like Saive's attack of serve and Rosskopf's forehand smash but his game system remained pretty much the same cause it worked.
Great narration!
Thank you! :)
With the Tokyo 2020 Olympic Gold, Ma Long is indisputably the GOAT.
Unfortunately younger people don't remember Jiang Jia Liang who dominated in the 90''s. Find some clips on YT and see how wise, simple and efficient his style was.
Zhang K.G. is my favourite player.
Awesome vid m8, great work!
Waldner hands down. Apart from being the prodigious player he still is at almost 60, no one has done so much for the sport internationally.
I love how waldner fans can’t use an actual argument and just resort to he had influence lmaooo
@@Callmethedrink7that's what fandom is my man, you are attached to a player, team or organisation for any reason whatsoever.
delusional lol
@@daniellige5311 It's my honest to god opinion. However I find those who seem to disagree with me to be quite toxic. And who would want fans like that. So a win for me and Waldner I guess.
Lots of chinese bots here.
This was the one of the best documentary i have seen just beautifully documented end presented. As a high school pin pong champion this is just beautiful super hard game . Now i have even more respect to Swedish people.
Great video! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks! I am glad you find it good, there will be more content so stay tuned :)
Agreed indeed. A Champion is determined by how many major titles he collected. Nothing else matters.
I wouldn't say he's the best, but probably the biggest. He's been in the pro tour for a long time.
But now it feels like he's mastered it, like no one can beat him. He has become table tennis's master.
I agree, L
Ma Long wins also gold medal in doubles !
Beautiful subsumption and modest presented! What you said, different criteria. Another could be the longest under top 10 or 20. Most individual style or technique and so on. Perfection might lead to victory but perfection very often is boring too. Anyhow..I really like your post!
Thank you! I will try to make another video as you mentioned top 20 for instance or heck..even top 50 players of all time
Ma long is the goat for sure, but I still think Zhang Jike in his prime was the best. He just had too many injuries because his style was so explosive. He could flick any spin back no matter how fast. It was crazy.
Hats off my man!
Really good job! Thank u
Thank you so much!
Although video is pretty old, I have to say that, in his prime, Zhang Jike was the most well rounded player that I have ever seen. He was pure strength, reflexes, balanced forehand backhand, mental game, foot game, I mean… he was a beast
J. o Walder and Wang Tao signed my racket case in early 90s. Nice to see 2 Legends play friendly match in home area, Kalmar Sweden.
Waldner en Xuperman. Ma Long is great there is no denial, he is like the Djokovic of Tennis. But Waldner en Xuperman, have so much finesse, its entertaining to watch
All in this list are great but it is Xu Xin play that most delighted to see, he is an artist!
His forehand is simply mesmerizing, i agree. I only fear that his lack of backhand will leave him without gold at world champs..i could be wrong though :D
Exactly Xi Xin for me too. What a finesse player !!
Ma Long is the best. 馬龍絕對是毫無疑問的史上最佳
Excellent video. Thank you
Thank you, i am glad you like it! :D
Wang hao is a real knight: he saved the princess from the dragon and gave her gold jewelry
But poor Wang ended up way too often at #2. I wonder if he was the princess's 2nd choice even after saving her from the dragon.
@@benthekeeshond545 He just likes to be behind, JJ... no one has record against ma long, look at him in 2006
@@benthekeeshond545 Wang was #1 for 27 consecutive months.He was one of the most stable players and don't forget he was playing in an era with the great Ma Lin and the other great Wang Liqin it's not easy to achieve something like this.3 silver medals in Olympics I don't speak for team medals because China is in a Demigod Level for the 21 st century.I have Wang maybe second greatest I put Ma Long as the greatest not because he took his second gold today I was saying this before his second Olympics medal and maybe Ma Lin or Xu Xin or Wang Liqin or Waldner after
@@sprtingeteb1396
It is hard to read and understand what you wrote. Please use a few commas and periods.
What I wrote before could be a cruel joke but I didn't say Wang Hao was no good. All respect for someone who competed in 3 straight Olympic Gold finals. That was within a time frame of 12 years. Nothing but impressive.
@@benthekeeshond545 I didn't use commas and periods my bad for this.I didn't say you speak shit for Wang Hao i just wanted to tell my opinion because i want to hear for others what's their opinion about Wang Hao because for me maybe he is the second greatest after Ma that's all
Excellent video! Extra credit to you for being one of the few non-swedes who can pronounce Jörgen Persson correctly.
Ma Long got second Olympic Gold Medal. Everything is clear now... ;)
Crystal clear :D
EXCELLENT REVIEW MAN ! Lots of great info 👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌
Thank you! I am glad you like it, cheers :D
Waldner for sure.
He beat 5 generations of top Chinese players.
He won the olympics in Barcelona 1992 by 18-1 in sets.
He won his first gold in big international single tournaments in 1986 and his last in 2002.
In 2004 he came 4th in the olympics at the age of 39.
His last national gold was in 2010 at the ripe age of 45.
Jan-Ove Waldner won also world championship in Manchester 1997 with 21-0 in set
Ma and it’s not even close waldner fans keep coping 😂
@ler9951 The difference is that Ma fans only cite results and titles, Waldner fans cite love for the game. There is no "cope", because no one gives a shit about whether Waldner is the "official GOAT" or not. We already know that 20 years from now, his matches will still be watched. You think Ma Long's will be?
@@Nerdcrusherlmaoo your having debate but admit your opinions is based on feelings not facts or titles 😂, so you outright admit you are wrong and only arguing your feeling 😂. That’s ok to be delusional as long as you admit it lol, ma is also wayyy more popular than waldner 😂
@@Nerdcrusherlike Adam bobrow said anyone who says waldner are 100% talking from feeling not fact and that’s ok but you are wrong lmaoo and everyone knows it
Great job good luck with channel
Thank you :D
There's no question Ma Long is the best. He reached his peak before the Brazil Olympic, and he was simply perfect at the time. Now he is "old" but he still wants to help the team. He deserves a lot of respect.
I would say Ma Long is old to be the absolute best in TT. TT is different than other sports. TT requires both reflex and quickness. Both extreme reflex and quickness go downhill around the age of 28.
Ma Long reached his peak at 24-26 just any top athlete but he was blocked by Wang Hao.There are not many young players around which makes him like an "evergreen" which he isn't.
Even Wang Hao was forced to retire at 30 and he was in better physical shape than Ma Long but current generation of players is too weak so they still have to rely on Ma Long.
Kong Linghui was destined by his coaches to become an evergreen in a quest to mimic Waldner's career but he was beaten to death by Schlager and quietly disappeared .
Clowns he just won double grand slam. GOAT
Good video. i am Xu Xin fan. Goat is ma long, was Waldner.
Waldner es como federer no es tan solo por los títulos
Marcó una nueva forma de jugar contra los jugadores chinos que dominaban hasta su llegada
Waldner vive en el corazón igual que federer
Para mi eso tiene mas peso emocional
Waldner es el mejor de todos los tiempos
Zhang Jike shaving his head was the start of his villain arc
Ma Long the GOAT
Amazing video! And im curious about what happened in the Wangliqin-Malin-Wanghao's era...
I am almost done with writing for that era. I uploaded another video yesterday. Wang Liqin - Ma Lin- Wang Hao era will be uploaded in about 10 days :)
Definitely Ma Long is the GOAT , ultimate pleasure to watch the dragon win his 2nd Olympic title in Tokyo
Great video. Subscribed
Thank you! Welcome aboard :D
beyond a reasonable doubt, he is the G.O.A.T. period. Congratz Ma long.
Hey. I can't describe how amazing and wonderful this is. I want to say few things. But before that, is this video from some other channel or you yourself have created it?
Hi! Thank you so much! I created it 😀
@@TableTennisReport great. Kudos for the work. So is this your first video? If yes, trust me, if you keep creating this type of content then you will make it big on TH-cam in tt genre....
Nishan Bhattarai agreed
Please do one for women’s! I’d be so happy if you can a comparison between Dengyaping and the other women’s grand slam champions as your information is so accurate. I know Zhang Yining is short of one title to have won all possible singles titles, like Ma Long, but she did also achieve double grand slam, and the only player to do so.
I will of course, i just uploaded another video. In the next 2 or 3 videos, one of them will be women's greatest players! :)
As i promised, video i am currently working on is about best women's players :) Stay tuned!
Achievement-wise or gymnastically, and objectively Ma Long is undoubtedly the g.o.a.t! Artistically and creatively Waldner is, even though he failed four times in winning the gold medal when he played 5 time Olympics. Waldner was the g.o.a.t at the old era and Ma long is truly the g.o.a.t! Salute two greatest male table tennis players in history!