How to Set Up a Simul-Rappel

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 พ.ย. 2024
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ความคิดเห็น • 113

  • @Diegorbarron
    @Diegorbarron 5 ปีที่แล้ว +78

    Rest easy Brad G🙁

  • @jessercurtis
    @jessercurtis ปีที่แล้ว +3

    2:35 "...and then we will both be... gone......" 🙁😟
    Doing my first simul-climb and simul-repel tomorrow... glad I watched this. Looking forward to not being gone.

  • @georgcantor7172
    @georgcantor7172 5 ปีที่แล้ว +32

    Today is the day after TG, 11/29/2019, Friday; and mountain climber, Brad Gobright who was simul-rappelling (sr) in Mexico, died this passed Wednesday, 11/25/2019. His partner survived however. I'm watching this video, in order to see what exactly simul-rappelling is all about, since the article on Gobright's death was fuzzy in explaining it. And I just couldn't picture this sr in my brain. Now, I can!

  • @6darkness6eternal6
    @6darkness6eternal6 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Something worth mentioning in the section about checking the system before unclipping the anchor is, making sure the rope is actually loaded and bearing your weight before you unclip the anchor.
    You shouldn't really be taking yourself off backup before checking the system can actually bare your weight.

    • @jaykudie
      @jaykudie 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Sure but they were already in their systems before the video started, this isn't a how-to set up a rappel video.

  • @bburskey33
    @bburskey33 5 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    I was taught to always be sitting on gear when setting up for rappelling. Meaning that when I want to detach my anchor, I take the slack from the rope so I am sitting with all my weight on the rope and then the anchor is free to detach without leaning back after being off the gear.

    • @JamieBenoir
      @JamieBenoir 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Yeah I was really surprised to see they didn't do this in an instructional video of all things.

    • @demoman2
      @demoman2 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      you can do that but it's not necessary when you can check each others system. serve the same purpose. I'd weight it myself if no one else was there and it was convenient, aka no lip with chains or anything. or triple check and youre okay.

  • @rodrigotellez2962
    @rodrigotellez2962 6 ปีที่แล้ว +36

    yeah... very easy for something to go wrong in simul. In my local crag, a pair of climbers died when simul-rapping off a multipitch (probably due to not making an end-knot); and just to add more tragedy to the event, the fall was witnessed by their respective girlfriends
    stay safe and cut no corners when climbing

    • @josephgoebbelssmile2700
      @josephgoebbelssmile2700 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Not a climber myself, but I came here to have a better understanding of this technique after hearing about Brad Gobright's death simul-repelling. I'm almost positive he died for the exact same oversight you mentioned 😕 RIP Brad

    • @tm-worldwide
      @tm-worldwide 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@josephgoebbelssmile2700 It's such a shame. I've got to be honest I'm yet to understand the real point in rapping with one another. I mean, in a mountaineering context I understand the need for quick descents if limited for light OR for temperature if pushing your luck with a late summit but I can't see the point in guys rapping together at a simple crag if I'm honest...I may be missing something completely however!

    • @nickerzgames
      @nickerzgames 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@tm-worldwide I heard a good point for simul rappels. When you are rappeling in an area with a lot of loose rock can be safer to rappel together in order to prevent the first descender to be exposed to rockfall. That's about the only thing I can think of

  • @hummer0800
    @hummer0800 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    The yelp @ 3:12... so realistic :P (very helpful video, thank you!)

  • @petermcgreevy6386
    @petermcgreevy6386 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    After the accident in Mexico I googled your page. Found it excellent and I can see how this accident can happen. Thankfully one survived and can tell his story. The logic of this descent is the retrieval of the rope.?

    • @tdsfortrox8487
      @tdsfortrox8487 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      You are able to rappel with f.e. a grigri and don't have to carry an extra tube. You could also make a knot on one side of the rope to press against the anchor (common Canyoning technique) and rappel down one after another but this leaves the risk of getting the rope stuck in a bush when pulling it down.

  • @chrisjokinen217
    @chrisjokinen217 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I use simul-rappel techniques often, but not as shown here as there is no point with chains. We use it when we have climbed a tower or feature with no way off (common) besides down climbing or leaving gear. Then the rope is thrown off opposite sides of the tower or around a big boulder and using good communication we conduct the simul-rappel and pull the rope.

    • @superdeluxesmell
      @superdeluxesmell ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I think I’d be happier leaving gear.

  • @jonathansullivan3280
    @jonathansullivan3280 ปีที่แล้ว

    So me and my climbing partner use a slightly different variation of this instead of tying a stopper knot we actually both tie a standard figure 8 knot directly into our harness. I've found it is really convenient to have control of both ends of the rope at all times. Instead of creating a bunch of nice loops and then hucking it over the end of the cliff only to occasionally have a stopper knot get caught in a crack or a loop get caught below an anchor on something (one way to add a few extra hours to a multipitch climb lol). It's also convenient cause you are half set up already when your partner arrives at the anchor.
    It's also provides a bit of unnecessary redundancy I suppose since you are technically backing up your repel device/ carabiner/ belay loop.

  • @alec8485
    @alec8485 6 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    I don't do a great deal of outdoor climbing, and I may be missing something obvious, but what is the point of doing this? Since as you say its not faster than regular rappelling, why take what seems like unnecessary risks, when a single person rappel (with the other person still just attached to the anchors) is available and easier?

    • @dfa548
      @dfa548 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I have not tried simul rappelling for the same apprehension you have. I would assume the simul rappel, even when slowed down to double check all steps would still be faster than individual rappelling because the second climber cannot even attach himself until the first has finished lowering and unweighted the rope. Even if the second tries to tie-in to the system above the first in preparation, he would become stuck in place once the first climber weights the rope (which I assume [1] is not good for the belay device and [2] prevents you from escaping the system in an emergency). Thought I would save time and did exactly this - once and only once.

    • @johnwolford2477
      @johnwolford2477 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Sometimes people will choose to simul-rappel when one person doesn't have a device suited for a standard rappel (such as a gri-gri or a cheaper belay plate). Other times certain guide books will suggest simul-rappelling off of a horn or some other natural rock feature because there is no bolted anchor at the top and not everyone thinks to bring webbing (or has some ethic against leaving webbing or other cordage such as in many canyoneering circles).

    • @nickg4297
      @nickg4297 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      I simul rap all the time. Its much quicker because you and your partner can rap at the same time. So I don't have to wait for my partner to get down to set up my rap. It's important to make sure both climbers know what they are doing so that no one ever takes their weight off the rope! And of course stopper knots!

    • @johntuttle9544
      @johntuttle9544 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Learn how to build a carabiner brake if you drop or forget your proper rappelling device. The problem is that people are doing this because it seems "cool" when in fact it is only increasing their risks.

    • @johntuttle9544
      @johntuttle9544 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      If you introduce speed into simul rappelling you are only making a risky technique even more risky.

  • @battymare
    @battymare 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Question: what is the benefit of simul rappelling , given how dangerous it appears to be? How much more work is it to set up your own rope?

    • @camarpi
      @camarpi 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I was asking myself the same, and also how long it would take to do the rappel one after the other... can't understand this. The only need of using this technique, for me, could be to descend an injuried partner, and in that case, I will just hang him from my descensor, with a Shunt, Machard or equivalent, to secure.

    • @jacksonhall5725
      @jacksonhall5725 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@camarpi The only other advantage I can think of is speed. It should cut the time to rap down something in half. Perhaps you're 4 pitches into a 6-pitch climb and a lightning storm rolls in- now you're high up, exposed, and surrounded by lots of metal bits, and you need to get down ASAP.

    • @elivossler6476
      @elivossler6476 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jacksonhall5725 Also, on super chossy raps, if you're worried about knocking rocks on your partner, a simal rappel might be a better option. The first reason is can avoid being directly above your partner most of the time, and second, you are more able to doge anything coming your way rather than having only a couple feet from your PAS to the anchor.

    • @Leander_
      @Leander_ ปีที่แล้ว

      @@elivossler6476 Another use case is when you are guiding a beginner who needs direct coaching while abseiling. A bit rare/niche of course.

  • @you2tooyou2too
    @you2tooyou2too 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    For all blind rappels, figure-eight the ends together with a 2' recovery tail.
    Always use a third-hand (in case a rattle snake or eagle attacks during the rap).
    To advocate for the tether, there must be a failure mode in which it matters: If one partner loses consciousness, the other will stay in reach, to assist (for which I would recommend they rap together on a double line). If one loses braking control (which fails safe to locked off(same as uncon.)) the partner stays in reach to help. One partner falls out of harness, so the other survives (not an improvement over separate rappels with same failure).
    All other failure modes I can think of make the tether moot: Rope or anchor break, or either rappeler's device & 3rd-hand fail to hold the rope: [both fall to the ground or the end of the rappel loop, whichever comes first].
    If speed is at a premium, I recommend both hook into the double rope, less experienced above the other, and check each other. The lower rappels first, and 30 to 80 seconds later belays the second.
    Geologists, lovers, or eggers might rap side by side on separate lines, with a tether for sentimental reasons.

    • @rockclimbinghacks9222
      @rockclimbinghacks9222 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      I like tying the ends together, that's what I do. I use an overhang, the figure eight EDK isn't good for joining ends together.

  • @zraybroske2416
    @zraybroske2416 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Note to self: never simul-repel. Also, it’s not faster to do this, because the first person down needs to start building the anchor and they can do that will the next person is repelling.

  • @StickyPaw
    @StickyPaw 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Another great video! Thank you for this!

  • @tdsfortrox8487
    @tdsfortrox8487 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I would spin the rope around itself a few times (like if a light person belays a heavier climber) to limit the movement of the rope a bit

  • @xsuperbmentality
    @xsuperbmentality 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Could you just attach to each other with your personal anchor/ the end of your extended rappel?

  • @melissameder4741
    @melissameder4741 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another great vid. 👍

  • @chetmcmasterson
    @chetmcmasterson 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    What's the advantage of this technique vs. standard anchor/single line rappel?

    • @thursdaythe20th4
      @thursdaythe20th4 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      chetmcmasterson two people can come down at the same time

  • @Squids_Vlogs
    @Squids_Vlogs 6 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    2:24 seems that was kinda hard for her to say...

    • @HPMK100
      @HPMK100 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Squid That's what I'm sayin' I was like "Touchy subject?" Then had to go through the comments to see if I was the only one..

  • @arcitejack
    @arcitejack 5 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    Well I think we are all here because of recent events. Got to close that system.

    • @AchillesWrath1
      @AchillesWrath1 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I think the rope broke or the anchor let go in their situation. It doesn't sound like one of them lost the end of the rope.
      After the fatal descent, Jacobson told Outside magazine the pair were simul-rappeling -- a climbing technique where they use their bodies to counteract the rope when they heard it "pop."
      "We started rapping," Jacobson said. "I was a bit above him. I was on the left. He was on the right. Then all of a sudden, I felt a pop, and we started dropping."
      RIP

    • @chazmanager
      @chazmanager 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Jerm - He unfortunately went off the end. From what I read They had set up a really short rap so thought stoppers were not necessary but rope was not threaded evenly and the short side was in a bush. They assumed it reached and would clear it from the bush as they passed it (I’ve done this myself- super common). So sad.

    • @AchillesWrath1
      @AchillesWrath1 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@chazmanager That's unfortunate. Just goes to show even the most experienced climbers make a common mistake. And usually it's something very basic.

    • @David-ud9ju
      @David-ud9ju 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@chazmanager It's just so stupid. When someone dies through a freak unpreventable accident it's one thing, but when someone dies through a preventable accident, it's just stupid. If they had just used basic safety measures like checking they had enough rope and tying knots in the end, he'd still be alive.

    • @Squids_Vlogs
      @Squids_Vlogs 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@David-ud9ju well say that to all the people who dont wear their damn seat belts too

  • @Papershields001
    @Papershields001 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I try to only do this when there’s bad weather or in an emergency situation where I need to stay with an injured climber

  • @whatscreenname
    @whatscreenname ปีที่แล้ว

    What if the weight differences between the people is pretty big

  • @PB-sk9jn
    @PB-sk9jn 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    If you are obsessed with speed, to the extent that you simul rappel, instead look at the common British trad usage of double ropes. You get 60m rappels, half the number of anchors, and time wasted at anchors, on a descent. And go one at a time. Good for ascent when gear is not in a straight line too.

  • @bonefishboards
    @bonefishboards 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The only reason to simul-rap is in the case of an emergency. I witnessed a horrific simul-rap accident 30 years ago in the Gunks where a walk down would have taken 15 minutes,

  • @rogerturner5504
    @rogerturner5504 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'm getting clammy hands just watching this.

  • @davehause8571
    @davehause8571 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    If one partner goes off the end, I don't understand being connected together with a sling will prevent both from free falling.

    • @fosterkarcha6104
      @fosterkarcha6104 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      It won't - the knots in the end do that. The connection between the two rappellers prevents a partner who's lost control or unweighted the system from getting the both of you killed.

    • @benja_mint
      @benja_mint 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      it won't, but the stopper knots will. idunno why she said that.. maybe it was just edited together wrong

    • @anaixtar6793
      @anaixtar6793 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Even if you don't go sliding off the end of an unknotted rope, you will fall a distance, and you will get bashed up. Think what it will take to get your sorry rear ends off the rock now, while your pardner is dangling unconscious, bleeding above/below you. If it had been a belayed rappel you'd only have slipped a few feet; maybe a skinned shin- a four letter word or two- and soon forgotten. The idea is to get down in one piece and sit about a campfire- not nurse a concussion at best, or going home in a box as the other extreme.

  • @SgtSnausages
    @SgtSnausages 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Red Rock

  • @ABSVabeautifulsunsetvlog
    @ABSVabeautifulsunsetvlog 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Worst case scenario is the anchor bolt pops

  • @KillroyX99
    @KillroyX99 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Dale, the real question is "are you attached to your partner?", Olivia. Love. LOL

    • @KillroyX99
      @KillroyX99 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      "Dale, you are my backup knot", Olivia.

    • @KillroyX99
      @KillroyX99 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      "Oliva, you are fine like a well dressed figure eight", Dale.

  • @nickbrannon3251
    @nickbrannon3251 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thoughts of mortality at 2:25

  • @TheFizz263
    @TheFizz263 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Nice video and I agree - just don’t do it.

  • @tudormarin7739
    @tudormarin7739 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    The only reason to do this is save time and I don't know why you would be in a hurry. So unless you are trying to run away from a lightning storm or something this is completely insane an no one should do it. Rock climbing is an activity where every risk needs to be calculated and minimised, even if you are free soloing.

  • @snowisthekey
    @snowisthekey 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Dangerous technique to use when you are tired. When you are tired you make mistake. One mistake can lead to death with this technique.

  • @chew525
    @chew525 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Very sad that i know this after a good climber died from this technique.

  • @Plumsytheghillieone
    @Plumsytheghillieone 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wouldn't a safer way be to have one person rappeling normally, with the second climber suspended beneath with a runner to the belay loop? The suspended climber would be able to give a firemans belay on the way down, acting as backup, and both climbers can actually complete the rappel even if the other climber goes unconscious. You still have the same drawback of propper communication, but with the added benefit of less chance of catastrophic failure.

    • @jakeforker3095
      @jakeforker3095 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      No, if im getting what you're saying, they will just be hanging off the person who is abseiling's belay loop.......their weight on the rope will pull the belay device down in such a direction that it will lock the abseiler's belay device (ie. what happens if you pull down on the rope in a firemans belay and neither them or the person belaying would be able to move

  • @kaiviti2013
    @kaiviti2013 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Brad Gobright got me here

  • @andersonboy620
    @andersonboy620 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is too dangerous and too scary, avoid trying this guys!

  • @PB-sk9jn
    @PB-sk9jn 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Always, ALWAYS put a knot in the end of the rope if rappelling more than one pitch off the deck. Period.
    Personally, I also prefer the belay device on the belay loop, and a long prussik attached *above* the belay device just in case you do go off the end, you have a chance at a locking knot catching you. But the guides always seem to reverse this, so who am I to comment.
    Does look like such a faff that going 1 at a time on both ropes looks faster. More of the time is spent finding & setting up the next anchor anyway, and the second down can come really fast.

    • @jaykudie
      @jaykudie 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Above is not preferred because it needs to hold all of your weight, if the prussik locks up you have to unweight your entire body, if you lose control instinct may be to hold the prussik vs let go and let it bind.

  • @bastogne315
    @bastogne315 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Should be called Simul Death Rap

  • @johntuttle9544
    @johntuttle9544 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    There is almost no reason to simul-rappel and it only increases risk.

    • @chrisjokinen217
      @chrisjokinen217 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I use simul-rappel techniques often, but not as shown here as there is no point with chains. We use it when we have climbed a tower or feature with no way off (common) besides down climbing or leaving gear. Then the rope is thrown off opposite sides of the tower or around a big boulder and using good communication we conduct the simul-rappel and pull the rope.

  • @defface777
    @defface777 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    This looks unsafe

  • @HandFedMole
    @HandFedMole 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    It's only faster if you don't do all of the things you need to do to make it safe... Pointless.

  • @MrDavid997
    @MrDavid997 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I’ve never understood the need to simul rappel. It doesn’t save that much time and the risks seem to out weigh any time savings. Maybe I haven’t done it enough. There just seem to be a lot of accidents associated with simul rappelling.

  • @JohnnyYuma405
    @JohnnyYuma405 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I thought simul-raps were frowned upon. I tell my kids to NEVER simul-rap.

  • @Nerudah
    @Nerudah 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Close your fucking system people!

  • @charron1
    @charron1 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    1:24 Seems like Brad was not attached to his partner by doing this. Fatal mistake

    • @waseatenbyagrue
      @waseatenbyagrue 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I think they were still secured to the anchor then.

  • @anaixtar6793
    @anaixtar6793 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    What is the purpose of this ?!... The regular single person rappels are hazardous enuff- this simul-BS is just plain Hot Dogging. I would never condone it on any of my climbs and I won't be quiet in admonishing those that would do it.
    These people never think about those of us that get called out for their rescue or worse, their body recoveries.
    Still, all in all, a good video- just use your heads and your imaginations- read between the lines for you don't bounce well when things go bad.

    • @lrchandllr1
      @lrchandllr1 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Ya and I have no problem admonishing an idiot like you. Nobody is calling your gumby ass for a rescue, moron. It’s not only for hotdogging there are applications when it can be done properly and safe. Stick to your plastic walls in gym loser and quit trying to be a hero on the internet...loser

  • @SamuelGunnestad
    @SamuelGunnestad 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The connection between the climbers does nothing. If one loses control both will fall, connected together or not, until they hit the stopper knots

    • @dalendru
      @dalendru 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I beleive that is why they also both have brake slings on the ropes respectively. Tethering the climbers together is a great idea to add safety to this technique. If they didn't have the brake slings on and both got hurt, then yes the tethering wouldn't help much.

    • @SamuelGunnestad
      @SamuelGunnestad 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Sure, the rappel-backup is a good idea. My comment was regarding the connection BETWEEN the climbers. It doesn't improve this setup, it actually makes it worse as you will keep bothering your partner every time they stop and you don't. Without it you can rappel in a nice fashion with the speed you want. Please demonstrate how the tethering adds safety.

    • @profd65
      @profd65 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yet another know-nothing correcting AMGA guides. Where would we be without you?

    • @RickyHarline
      @RickyHarline 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      They demonstrated how the tether adds safety in the video. You have not argued with the point they made-- what do you disagree with?

  • @pinkyfull
    @pinkyfull 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This just.... feels bad? I don't see a situation where you would realistically want to do this if the risks, and there are many, are too high. Just feels like there are so many more ways of things going badly.

    • @jakeforker3095
      @jakeforker3095 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      If you're rapping off a feature with no fixed anchors........ie if you're rapping off a freestanding or detached pinnacle and theres no other way off, then a simul-rap is required

    • @JohnnyYuma405
      @JohnnyYuma405 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Jake Forker I guess I’m not understanding why it’s required to simul. Can you explain. Seems to me if you can simul you can just as easily go one at a time.

    • @jakeforker3095
      @jakeforker3095 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@JohnnyYuma405 Simul rappelling is useful in that it allows a rappel when building an anchor is not possible and there is no preexisting hardware to rap off..... Ie. Climb fops out on a pinnacle but there's no bolted anchors and nowhere to build a trad anchor.....therefote you would need to simulrap so that an anchor is not needed

  • @petergerhardsen20
    @petergerhardsen20 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very bad form. Beginners watchning this : they (hopefully, out of camera before 0:38) actually tested their rappel system by putting their FULL weight on it after unweighting their tether, BEFORE unclipping from their belay. They should have keep that test on video, and perform it right before unclipping.