WARNING: A jerk test may succeed although the Grigri is NOT setup correctly. This may be the case when only one half of the Grigri was inserted into the carabiner.
I think the clickup manual calls this a "function test". I now do this with all of my belay devices (while holding the brake) -- even with an ATC. It's a great test
@@DanielSchaffrath meaning the cover isn't clipped as well? I suppose it's possible but for me looking at it is immediately obvious (opposed to if the rope is fed the wrong direction, which is not visually obvious)
I successfully tested out today at my local gym, but had a slightly scary moment. It was my buddies turn to climb up and take a fall, to teach me how to handle it. My problem is that he has about 40 pounds on me and I didn’t realize to account for it. I had quite a bit of slack out when he fell, but his weight dropped him further, pulling me up to the first QuickDraw. He was a few feet off the ground, but I was above him. It was scary for both us. But lesson learned. And I passed! Note to anyone new out there; before going on belay, be sure to account for weight difference. Especially if your climber is heavier than you.
Thank you for the video I have learned from it. In the interests of safety. For any beginners watching this, keep the brake hand holding the rope below the device incase of failure. With it raised above, in the rare event of fall and equipment failure of the grigri locking, the lead climber will have a much worse fall as the brake is off. Might never happened but it's building good muscle memory incase you need to use a non-assisted device
Should your right hand be in the locked off position and not parallel when not giving or taking in rope. Otherwise your relying on the assisted braking element.
Is that a Petzl Freino locking carabiner with the side spur? I would add that if your rope hand gets too close to the belay device when feeding rope and your not wearing gloves you run the risk of having the skin between the thumb and index finger pulled in and pinched inside the device catching a fall. Besides being really painful you might jerk your hand away from the device and let go of the rope. The grigri device should still break but if you were using an ATC it might not.
Belay hand should be underneath the device at all time, even if you have a blocking device. Just in case there is an issue. This video may not be suited for beginners.
@@j.l.5966 I agree!! Brake hand should return to the" braking position". I have and use a Gri Gri and several other tube style belay devices. My technique is the same regardless of the device. My brake hand always returns immediately to the braking position after paying out slack. This practice develops a solid habit that is a lot more reliable. Especially during long pitches either at the local crag or several pitches up on multi pitch route. Even the most attentive belayer can lose focus and attentativness.
You can stick clip the way he does in the video if there is already a quickdraw at the first bolt, if not you can put the rope into the draw and stick clip that way. Best way to learn these tricks is to go out with some more experienced climbers. Be safe!
coming from an ATC guide, it's weird to see you hold your brake hand above the device. I guess that's ok, because braking comes with the spring loaded cam, rather than from friction on the brake side.
Grigri braking still relies on friction / the brake hand below the device for the cam to engage. Holding the brake side above the device does introduce some risk of the cam failing to engage (at least temporarily) and the rope slipping through the device as far as I know. The Hard is Easy channel has a couple of vids on scenarios in which the Grigri can fail.
It is a Petzl Freino. It has a 2nd gate with the purpose to add friction in the system. It is recommended by Petzl in case of belaying heavier climbers.
Great video! It looked like there was some kind of directional/friction device being used with the grigri during the lowering, does anyone know what that item may be called? It's possible i just didn't get a good enough look 👀
@@fiveoboy01 not entirely necessary with a grigri, but it’s always a good habit to have in case the cam fails, or you have to use a tube style belay device
Why is it that i always get the cam activated when i try to do a normal classic method of giving rope? No matter how slowly i pull the rope to pay slack, the cam gets activated and locks up. Shows how good the system is but it’s perplexing why i can’t overcome this and have to keep resorting to the method of pushing down on the cam.
If you lead the motion with your right hand, pushing the rope through, instead of draging it through with your left hand, i would guess it will work much better.
@@caleb1448 yeah.. thanks mate. I got that figured out. As I had only gotten the device I used the gym ropes to practice at the top rope routes. Realized they’re really thick and after using my own 9mm ropes they work like magic!
@@chrispolii5026the advice I got was to feed the rope with your brake hand in line from your belay loop, i.e. try to follow the feed path as it is when in the fast feed position because that's the path where the rope is least likely to engage the cam. Also part why the gaswerk technique sketches me out, because the rope is maintained in that position.
4:45 In what way does having extra slack help give a softer catch? I get that more rope means more elasticity, but more slack means a longer fall and higher speeds before the rope starts to catch. The only reason I could see an increase in slack resulting in a softer catch is that it gives the belayer slighter more time to react dynamically.
'softer' can mean both the impact from the rope catching you (stopping vertical direction), but also you hitting the wall (stopping your horizontal momentum). If someone falls with some distance between him and the wall, the rope acts as a pendulum and you swing into the wall. Having a bit longer rope, and thus fall distance, can help with the horizontal impact into the wall, especially when you are standing just above the quickdraw. Having more slack, also means you will fall further and you will build up more speed before the rope starts decelerating your fall, so don't overdo it ;)
With less slack, you have more horizontal movement, so you slam into the wall harder. With more slack, you fall vertically instead of swinging horizontally
@@MrMartin627 @Matt McConaha I think you're both right. I feel that you have to give your climber enough slack to let him/her build his fall freely. Sometimes you can't anticipate the fall, so giving little extra slack will allow your climber to have a nice fall trajectory (pushing himself out the wall, ...)
Because the Gri-Gri is right-hand only, this video should have been shot with the instructor to the left of the camera. . re 1:00 "I'm just gonna stack the rope" (beginner hint) If practical, stack the knotted end of the rope 'away from the stack', so it is unlikely to become lost in the rest of the stack, forming knots & tangles, & also place the stack NOT under the first pro (with a Gri-Gri, usually to the right) beside the belayer, so it is less likely to be stepped on or kicked by the climber start, nor during the belay. . re 5:00 Another point of safety is to preferably belay with the braking hand away from the rock so it is less likely to be confined or hit during a fall, possibly causing loss of control. . re 5:55 This might be a teaching moment for anchored belay/belayer, when she might lose control of a heavier climber's fall. . re 6:15 Note that he clips in the brake line below the Gri-Gri, to improve descent control & reduce rope twist.
He explained that the point was to stop the device camming while quickly giving slack and that it would be easy to revert to normal braking in case of a fall. He then went on to show a dangerous method some people use which could result in panicked grabbing of the lever and potentially cause a ground fall.
You should minimize the time that the breaking hand is above the grigri. In this video you ser the breaking hand above the grigri all the time. Thats a bad and dangerous habbit and against Petzls instruktions.
@@michaelschmid6430 Be that as it may, it is completely avoidable and thus preferred not to, especially for an instructor showing how to belay. Other people seeing this may copy the belay method using other belay devices. Honestly if I saw someone with this belay technique I would not want them belaying me.
He is using a stick clip for the first (technically second) clip there. I've never bothered with one and it is more of a convenience for this crag, although it is highly recommended for others. A grigri is a type of belay device made by Petzl that has largely become the standard, especially for top rope climbing. Many climbers who lead belay use an ATC or something similar because it is easier to pay out the rope when the lead climber needs it or if they are doing multi pitch climbing and need to rappel. This video is very helpful for those who want to use a grigri for lead belay instead of an ATC. You may already know this, but I wanted to leave a comment for anyone else who checks it out.
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I always do a jerk test with a gri gri prior to a climb. A quick tug on the climbers end of the rope and you confirm that you’re set!
WARNING: A jerk test may succeed although the Grigri is NOT setup correctly. This may be the case when only one half of the Grigri was inserted into the carabiner.
@@DanielSchaffrath Good point! Maybe "Confirm" is the incorrect term, but it can certainly catch a few mistakes on the ground.
I think the clickup manual calls this a "function test". I now do this with all of my belay devices (while holding the brake) -- even with an ATC. It's a great test
@@DanielSchaffrath meaning the cover isn't clipped as well? I suppose it's possible but for me looking at it is immediately obvious (opposed to if the rope is fed the wrong direction, which is not visually obvious)
@@DanielSchaffrath Ofc you always also need to check the grigri setup!
Great angle for the fall catch at 5:58! Really shows how you only react when the rope is tensioned and not beforehand!
I love your guys' videos. Very well explained.
I'm watching this with Hadi Al-Saadoon, who is pleased to see Dale, one of his former climbing students (from 25 years ago)!
I successfully tested out today at my local gym, but had a slightly scary moment. It was my buddies turn to climb up and take a fall, to teach me how to handle it. My problem is that he has about 40 pounds on me and I didn’t realize to account for it. I had quite a bit of slack out when he fell, but his weight dropped him further, pulling me up to the first QuickDraw. He was a few feet off the ground, but I was above him. It was scary for both us. But lesson learned. And I passed!
Note to anyone new out there; before going on belay, be sure to account for weight difference. Especially if your climber is heavier than you.
How did you pass when you nearly de ked your climber?
Great explanation! Made our climbing safer.
Love your videos.
Glad you like them!
Thank you for the video I have learned from it.
In the interests of safety.
For any beginners watching this, keep the brake hand holding the rope below the device incase of failure. With it raised above, in the rare event of fall and equipment failure of the grigri locking, the lead climber will have a much worse fall as the brake is off.
Might never happened but it's building good muscle memory incase you need to use a non-assisted device
Nice day dynamic belay, bet that felt smooth to land on
Really nice explanation and very safe
Should your right hand be in the locked off position and not parallel when not giving or taking in rope. Otherwise your relying on the assisted braking element.
Is that a Petzl Freino locking carabiner with the side spur? I would add that if your rope hand gets too close to the belay device when feeding rope and your not wearing gloves you run the risk of having the skin between the thumb and index finger pulled in and pinched inside the device catching a fall. Besides being really painful you might jerk your hand away from the device and let go of the rope. The grigri device should still break but if you were using an ATC it might not.
which rope diameter do you use?
The Galllleeeerrrryyyy
Belay hand should be underneath the device at all time, even if you have a blocking device. Just in case there is an issue. This video may not be suited for beginners.
Yeah, however beginners shouldn't be learning their skills off of youtube videos without in person instruction. They are not the target audience.
Unless you’re a very fast learner, beginners shouldn’t learn lead climbing or belaying til after they’re comfortable and skilled at top rope.
@@j.l.5966 I agree!! Brake hand should return to the" braking position". I have and use a Gri Gri and several other tube style belay devices. My technique is the same regardless of the device. My brake hand always returns immediately to the braking position after paying out slack. This practice develops a solid habit that is a lot more reliable. Especially during long pitches either at the local crag or several pitches up on multi pitch route. Even the most attentive belayer can lose focus and attentativness.
One question, how do you open a route like this one? The first bolt is very far from the ground. Isn't it very dangerous?
You can stick clip the way he does in the video if there is already a quickdraw at the first bolt, if not you can put the rope into the draw and stick clip that way. Best way to learn these tricks is to go out with some more experienced climbers. Be safe!
Can I belay someone while they also use auto belay? For the purpose of me training my belay skills like giving slack
coming from an ATC guide, it's weird to see you hold your brake hand above the device. I guess that's ok, because braking comes with the spring loaded cam, rather than from friction on the brake side.
Grigri braking still relies on friction / the brake hand below the device for the cam to engage. Holding the brake side above the device does introduce some risk of the cam failing to engage (at least temporarily) and the rope slipping through the device as far as I know. The Hard is Easy channel has a couple of vids on scenarios in which the Grigri can fail.
anyone have experience using these for lead left handed? I've always used one for top roping lefty but im worried it'd be more dangerous lead.
Petzl says to just pretend you're right handed
In climbing gyms stand close to the wall till the climber clips into the fifth express carabiner. Even in fifth there is a chance of ground contact.
Joe Weber same for us, we keep close for 1-3 then keep it tight clipping 4 and everything after that is just to keep a soft catch
when he starts lowering it looks like his biner is not locked? like he just shoves the rope through the gate and it opens for him. anybody know why?
Chloe Zumbrun he’s using a load assisting carabiner to lower - like the Petzel Freino Autolocking Carabiner
Which carabiner are you using to belay, that allowed you to clip the rope into it while loaded? Isn't the gate supposed to be locked?
?
It is a Petzl Freino. It has a 2nd gate with the purpose to add friction in the system. It is recommended by Petzl in case of belaying heavier climbers.
What do you call that knot at 1:22 or the way you tie the rope to clip the first draw?
surprised they haven't answered this by now. I asked the same question.
It looks like a fisherman’s knot- but an overhand works too (not as tight though)
He has used a half hitch.
Great video! It looked like there was some kind of directional/friction device being used with the grigri during the lowering, does anyone know what that item may be called? It's possible i just didn't get a good enough look 👀
id look up “Carabiner + Friction Spur” its a special type of carabiner used for belaying with a little extra loop for the rope :)
Not necessary to keep brake hand down ? Just learned that in climbing course
very necessary
@@ssf9945 wrong. Not necessary with the grigri.
@@fiveoboy01 not entirely necessary with a grigri, but it’s always a good habit to have in case the cam fails, or you have to use a tube style belay device
Why is it that i always get the cam activated when i try to do a normal classic method of giving rope? No matter how slowly i pull the rope to pay slack, the cam gets activated and locks up. Shows how good the system is but it’s perplexing why i can’t overcome this and have to keep resorting to the method of pushing down on the cam.
Diameter of the rope?
If you lead the motion with your right hand, pushing the rope through, instead of draging it through with your left hand, i would guess it will work much better.
@@caleb1448 yeah.. thanks mate. I got that figured out. As I had only gotten the device I used the gym ropes to practice at the top rope routes. Realized they’re really thick and after using my own 9mm ropes they work like magic!
@@chrispolii5026the advice I got was to feed the rope with your brake hand in line from your belay loop, i.e. try to follow the feed path as it is when in the fast feed position because that's the path where the rope is least likely to engage the cam. Also part why the gaswerk technique sketches me out, because the rope is maintained in that position.
3:49 "I can go right into the breaking position and catch her" - the breaking position involves holding down the cam with the left hand???
His hand is resting on the lowering lever, but definitely wouldn’t obstruct the cam
My question is, how do you get down from getting pulled up as the belayer
The belayer can lower themselves the same way they would lower the climber.
what clipstick is Dale using in the video btw?
superclip
Then it becomes toproping. I would not log that as a lead. But everyone can make their own rules just saying.
@@gavinearle8402 until they pass that bolt, then they’re lead climbing.
So they half toproped half led it. The weenies of today!
The most impressive part of this video is there is no line for yaak crack!! Great content though of course.
4:45 In what way does having extra slack help give a softer catch? I get that more rope means more elasticity, but more slack means a longer fall and higher speeds before the rope starts to catch. The only reason I could see an increase in slack resulting in a softer catch is that it gives the belayer slighter more time to react dynamically.
'softer' can mean both the impact from the rope catching you (stopping vertical direction), but also you hitting the wall (stopping your horizontal momentum). If someone falls with some distance between him and the wall, the rope acts as a pendulum and you swing into the wall. Having a bit longer rope, and thus fall distance, can help with the horizontal impact into the wall, especially when you are standing just above the quickdraw. Having more slack, also means you will fall further and you will build up more speed before the rope starts decelerating your fall, so don't overdo it ;)
With less slack, you have more horizontal movement, so you slam into the wall harder. With more slack, you fall vertically instead of swinging horizontally
@@MrMartin627 @Matt McConaha I think you're both right. I feel that you have to give your climber enough slack to let him/her build his fall freely. Sometimes you can't anticipate the fall, so giving little extra slack will allow your climber to have a nice fall trajectory (pushing himself out the wall, ...)
Because the Gri-Gri is right-hand only, this video should have been shot with the instructor to the left of the camera.
. re 1:00 "I'm just gonna stack the rope" (beginner hint) If practical, stack the knotted end of the rope 'away from the stack', so it is unlikely to become lost in the rest of the stack, forming knots & tangles, & also place the stack NOT under the first pro (with a Gri-Gri, usually to the right) beside the belayer, so it is less likely to be stepped on or kicked by the climber start, nor during the belay.
. re 5:00 Another point of safety is to preferably belay with the braking hand away from the rock so it is less likely to be confined or hit during a fall, possibly causing loss of control.
. re 5:55 This might be a teaching moment for anchored belay/belayer, when she might lose control of a heavier climber's fall.
. re 6:15 Note that he clips in the brake line below the Gri-Gri, to improve descent control & reduce rope twist.
2:45, one of the tricks to smash your head in to the rock ;) . Stay safe...
His braking position at 3:50 would stop the device camming and cause a dangerous fall!
pretty sure hes just using his left hand to gold the grigri up to show you what hes doing..
@@jacobltillman Good point. I can see that now but he doesnt explain that and a new person could pick up a very dangerous habit from it.
@@andyking4306 Agreed
He explained that the point was to stop the device camming while quickly giving slack and that it would be easy to revert to normal braking in case of a fall. He then went on to show a dangerous method some people use which could result in panicked grabbing of the lever and potentially cause a ground fall.
You should minimize the time that the breaking hand is above the grigri. In this video you ser the breaking hand above the grigri all the time. Thats a bad and dangerous habbit and against Petzls instruktions.
Grigri is not working lite a tube style belay device. Position of breaking hand is irrelevant. Important is always hand on the rope, not position.
@@michaelschmid6430 Be that as it may, it is completely avoidable and thus preferred not to, especially for an instructor showing how to belay. Other people seeing this may copy the belay method using other belay devices. Honestly if I saw someone with this belay technique I would not want them belaying me.
@@tvdw4055 if they can’t read the title of the video I wouldn’t want that person belaying me.
@@tvdw4055same
no stopper knot on climber??
There is no need for a 'safety' knot on a figure 8. It just serves to keep the tail out of the way if there is excess.
It serves no purpose unless you're belaying from the loop.
call me old school but belt and braces. a stopper knot placed on the tail would give me more confidence in the system . Uk spa/rci 20+ years
@@jpsims4697 So that means you haven't learned shit in 20 years. A stopper knot adds zero strength nor safety to a figure of 8 knot.
does this dude take it?
Actual start at 2:50
this dude called the camming device on the grigri a "lever" lol
No explanation of the procedure from 1:13 to 1:40. And, no clear explanation of what a grigri is?!
He is using a stick clip for the first (technically second) clip there. I've never bothered with one and it is more of a convenience for this crag, although it is highly recommended for others. A grigri is a type of belay device made by Petzl that has largely become the standard, especially for top rope climbing. Many climbers who lead belay use an ATC or something similar because it is easier to pay out the rope when the lead climber needs it or if they are doing multi pitch climbing and need to rappel. This video is very helpful for those who want to use a grigri for lead belay instead of an ATC. You may already know this, but I wanted to leave a comment for anyone else who checks it out.
You lost me a the clip stick
How to Give a Perfect Lead Belay with a Grigri?
Leave it at home and use a tuber!
Well, to each his own, but I refuse climbing when belayed with anything that isn't a semi auto.
@@bernhardlangers778 a lot of people forget that freak accidents happen. most people brace with two hands if they take a fall.
Your brake hand is continuously above the grigri. WRONG. I seriously suggest you read and understand the instructions that came with the grigri
"how to perfect bely" - watch your climbing partner and don't look most of the time in a camera...
It's an instructional video, you fucking moron.