Plot twist. When Jago gets to a line that was partially built and later abandoned, we see Geoff in the background of one of Jago's shots. And we see Jago's disembodied voice in the background of one of Geoff's shots. "But you can't see a disembodied voice" I hear you cry. Not normally, no. But Jago's is just that iconic....
HUH? You *see Jago's disembodied voice in the background of one of Geoff's shots*? So, you'll Hear the light from the window, You'll see the sound of the sea. Your feet will come loose from their moorings And you'll feel quite wonderfly free! So I guess you'll be Flying down to Rio tonight, Using the music for flight! ...........borrowing heavily from Mike Nesmith there! LOL
If I were to let my wife travel on the Underground on her own, she'd get stuck on the Circle line all day... That's by her own admission, I'm not being misogynistic, she finds UK trains a little more confusing than the ones in her home country.
@@RichardWatt Getting stuck on the circle line is quite easy! Particularly if you’re looking to get to Hammersmith and you’re not paying attention. Missing your station by one stop is very irritating. I met an American couple once who thought that meant they had to go round the entire circuit again!
@@RichardWatt Getting stuck on the Circle Line is now much less fun than it used to be. One could indeed travel round and round all day and some homeless people used to to just that.
@SteelRodent Do you think so? I always found the Paris Metro platform signposting using the line termini a bit confusing. 'Ligne 4, Direction Pte de la Clignancourt' , for example. Give me 'Bakerloo Line, Northbound' any day.
Actually, the real story behind cancelling the scrapping of Marylebone station was that they included in their plans not only the costs for redesigning the Monopoly board but full compensation to all those who had existing boards that they could no longer collect their £200. A proposal was made to compensate those affected by giving them the possibility to put houses on the site, but the preservation society for Orthodox Monopoly Regulations, (the same organisation which imposes fines for those using Free Parking as an illegal underground banking system), obviously blocked these proposals. So Marylebone was saved.
@@TheCaptScarlett As far as I know, April 1st does not have a monopoly (ahem) on satire. Sorry to be a nosy Parker, my brother, but you didn't really think I was being serious did you? It reminds me of when SnopesDotCom labels internet sites and You tube videos which are quite obviously comedy and satire, as "Fake News". On the subject of Captain Scarlet, I always preferred this to its sister series, Thunderbirds. That great scene shown at the beginning of every episode of the camera angle panning up to show Captain Black in uniform, is forever burnt in my memory. (By the way, don't you think that Mikel Arteta, Arsenal's Manager, has an uncanny resemblance to Captain Black? It makes yer think doesn't it!) I hope I don't upset you too much when I tell you that in fact, Captain Scarlet was not indestructible in real life. Gerry Anderson actually had a number of Captain Scarlet lookalikes made so he could set them on fire and blow them up at his whim. The vehicles they used still look futuristic even today. I feel they should have developed the other characters more. Captain White was really cool. A true leader. Captain Green, his devoted assistant. I would have liked to have seen Captain Blue to have had more air time. I really liked him. Don't get me started with the Angels. As a child, I used to love their French accents and the cold blooded coolness in which they used to carry out their missions. A great series. A kind of European Union Army but with Great Britain in charge!
@@RebMordechaiReviews 👏You had me at the start - it was the compensation part that made me stop. I've tested it on my quiz group, and some quizzers of national standing fell for it - so bravo. It has a ring of truth to it like Bob Holness's sax playing on Gerry Rafferty's Baker Street
@@TheCaptScarlett Can you just imagine it? Waddington Board Games would have had to have issued notices in all the papers, requesting ALL those who had purchased a British Monopoly set to go to a pickup point to collect their replacement boards. How many millions of sets must have been sold since the original British edition came out in 1935? Millions and millions.
Unfortunately the main line railways and then BR tended to have a view that everyone wanted to go to central London and longer distance trains should not stop in the suburban area. The idea of a hub for outer London locations did not really occur to them. Likewise the main line platforms at Willesden Junction were lost, and most South Western expresses to Waterloo didn't stop at Clapham Junction (the Brighton line does a bit better). I was shocked to find how difficult it would be to commute from Hampshire to Brentford, basically at peak hours having to go all the way into Waterloo and back out again. Stratford is a better example of how it could be done, and the proposed Old Oak hub is a good idea.
April 2021: I wonder if tube drivers play 'spot the passenger' when they arrive at stations during these strange times...don't seem to be many around...
We were certainly doing it on the routes I drive out in the provinces. Along with "spot the county lines courier", "spot the druggie off to his/her dealer" and "spot the only passenger who's actually travelling in full compliance with all lockdown rules you'll see this week". We gave up playing "spot the idiot who believes that face coverings don't actually have to cover their noses unless there's someone official looking at them" and "spot the idiot wearing the face covering on their chin" as those categories cover roughly a third of everyone who travels.
This would have been such a handy line. I have lived in Deptford for 9 years and have always felt cut off from central London due to it not being on the tube. There is a Thameslink service which runs from Deptford to West Hampstead now, so in a way I guess that we did get some form of the line after all.
@@highpath4776 I am surprised that they cut the line from Wimbledon, they usually keep the transport links in more affluent areas, lol. In a way not being on the tube has been quite nice because it has forced people to socialise locally and an arts community has grown in Deptford. Its all changing now though. Tower blocks are going up all over Deptford and the area is becoming overpopulated. I guess thats why they added it to the Thamelink service, lol.
@@theeastendwanderer8277 It still runs to somewhere dopey, like Mill Hill or Borehamwood, maybe it is just a covid adjustment - its part to do with trains through the central core frequencies and turnaround of crew on the fuller length of the line/s north.
Loving these. Busily recreating the 1950 tube network (in Nimby Rails) so that I can add in these "planned" routes and see what the world might have had.
Jago: "I hope you enjoyed this..." Well, it turns out no lesser person that Piers Morgan is possibly a viewer. He wrote about the OSCAR show in the Daily Mail. News item: Good Morning Britain presenter savaged the 93rd Academy Awards as he branded the show 'breathtakingly boring' in his latest column. "I'd have been genuinely more entertained if I'd actually just watched trains coming and going." Piers has discovered something we've known for years.
let's not forget Deptford is twinned with Hampstead. ;O) In fact it was probably the residents of Hamspstead that put a stop to the line in order to make sure the scallys from Deptford never got there!
Every time I see a dislike on one of your videos I can't help but think to myself "I see those Paris Metro enthusiasts are at it again," and give a little chuckle. Yes, I m that easily amused :)
Where visions and dreams were left to rot. The GCR was originally designed/futureproofed with the Channel tunnel and the use of continental rolling stock in mind. Oh and a small point of order Mr Hazzard, sir. Its 'Marry-le-bone' not 'Marley-bone' - I know everyone says the latter but it comes from St Mary-le-Bone Church. I had a strict upbringing. (idea for another informative video?)
@@TheCaptScarlett Interesting point about pronunciation! I was taught that “Marry-le-bone” was a recent affectation, and that the ‘correct’ pronunciation was closer to “Marley-bun”...
The original proposal for Crossrail (scheduled to open in 1999) had a branch which connected to the Chiltern Line and took over the Aylesbury branch (the old GCR Main Line)
Interesting - a nice treat for a Sunday morning. As someone who lives not far from New Cross it would have been interesting to see the impact of this line on the Overground of this line had come to pass...
0:25 "....after much deliberation & 23 yrs of planning & construction...." LOL That's nearing the rank, of Gov't Efficiency! I’m curious, as to the numbers on delays & cost overruns.
Given that the pre-war planned Central Line extensions DID happen fairly swiftly shows how things could get done. What actually happened post WW2 was the switch to the New Towns with the fear of London getting nuclear obliteration, leaving Crawley , Basingstoke and Harlow just looking like post apopoliptic landscapes
One thing that intrigues me is how all this capacity would have been achieved. Was the idea that there would be multiple tunnels with separate lines, reducing the conflict between line sharing, points failure, train breakdowns that you already get on the MetCircH&CDis, but with massive interchanges with dozens of platforms/connecting walkways. It would be fascinating to build it in some train sim like Railroad Tycoon or the like (I'm not current) and see how London pans out.
@SteelRodent "makes sense to look at what Johnny Foreigner has done" - this post-war Britain, that's the last thing we'd do. If a wheel needs reinventing we're your guys. As for half-arsed implementation, with the exception of London 2012, we must be channeling our Danelaw ancestry, so you guys can take the blame for that, coming over here causing us dynastic upset and the basis of our legal system.
It’s now possible to go from Deptford to West Ham since the Thameslink service from Rainham in Kent to Luton Beds started running. My 2 local Stations, Westcombe Park and Maze Hill are on that line. if I ever ant to, I can go in either direction to Rainham about 33 miles away, or Luton 53 miles away on just 1 train. On the other hand if want to go to Charing Cross, which is about 8 miles, I have to take 2 trans and change at London Bridge, and if I go to visit my sister who lives in Grove Park less than 5 miles away, I have to take 3 trains. Local transport in southeast London is pretty crap.
How would you get to West Ham on Thameslink? It doesn't go anywhere near there....... And you can't expect to have a direct rail connection to every destination, it's impossible! That hardly makes transport "crap" when in fact London has an excellent public transport network.
While the routes are shown as separate lines, were they intended to be alternatives, so only one would be built, or complimentary with a core section/s and fanning out at the ends, like Crossrail 2 has been concieved as ( but again in danger of death via starvation of funds ).
The argument against using the abandoned C&SLR tunnels through the City is that they were of a smaller diameter than newer Tube Gauge tunnels, 10 ft 2 in v 11ft 8.25 internal diameter. That's not to say the couldn't have been rebuilt and bored out to the larger gauge of course as happened when the C&SLR was taken over by the UERoL and merged with the CCE&HR.
The old GCR was opened around 1897 and seems an ideal HS2. This has been argued about a lot in discussions. BR seems to have had it on for it under Beeching, which is a pity as it was was made for speed and planned for cross channel trains via a tunnel. It was built to Continental loading gauge and with shallow gradients and curves. But the money ran out at Marylebone. Depending on the popularity of Route Three and the old GCR being complete at the time, there could have been new fast routes to London much earlier, and things, again, could be so much different.
There is an arguement that GC route was not high-speed enough. Thinking of it was less high speed but an efficient route, a good speed and good coal consumption.
@@neilbain8736 Of course an engineer looking to make a name for themselves, and a set of reports for spending to objectives , I suppose they would say that, wouldnt they. (Still think a terminal in London is wasteful, HS2 should pass through )
The other alternative would have been to divert all the freight from the West Coast Main Line on to the GC line (especially as its wider loading gauge might help with containers, or through trains from Europe if they could get round London) and free up paths on the WCML for more expresses. The GC line's reasonable gradients would also have been good for freight, whereas the curve round its island platforms was not ideal for truly high speed rail (although most of them would have been removed). Nowadays it is curves rather than gradients that are the biggest obstacle to very high speeds.
The Victoria Line could of extend from Walthamstow Central to Woodford or South Woodford. Or could of extended to Chingford. And from Brixton to Camberwell, Dulwich and Croydon. And the Bakerloo Line is to be extended from Elephant & Castle to New Cross/New Cross Gate, Hayes and Lewisham and to Hayes & Bromley by being split at Lewisham. And with 2 new tube stations on Old Kent Road. Which is schedule to happen from next year.
Andrew JG I often thought that the Victoria line should at least be extended to Whipps Cross or with your suggestion for an extension to Woodford or Chingford have a station there. A station at Whipps Cross would, with a bit of careful planning, ease the traffic congestion at Walthamstow Central created by the number of bus routes that serve this station. When coupled with the improvements made for buses at Whipps Cross some of the bus routes could be diverted there and tube passengers could get their onward bus by staying on the tube one more stop thus spreading the need for onward buses between two stations. I realise at the moment that Walthamstow Central doesn't look very congested but do you remember what it was like pre - pandemic? I wonder if you agree with me that my suggestion would ease congestion at Walthamstow Central.
@@Andrewjg_89 Nothing's impossible!! I think one more station is,in my opinion, extremely possible and your suggestions would be nice too as well as easing congestion further.
England should consider itself a city with lots of park. England should be trying to create a rail grid that functions like a metro. In London it would mean diverting the terminating lines underground and linking them up under the city. Tube demand would fall 25% or more. Trains would terminate in the countryside not in cities.
More likely trains would run in a North Kent Loop, Brighton, and Portsmouth. For the North, Oxford or Swindon, Peterborough, Corby and a East Anglian Loop
I notice you mentioned the Great Central in the video. This was in it's way ahead of it's time as it did what it said on the box . I can now see how useful it would have been in 2021...but it was not Beeching who signed its death warrant but if my information is correct Barbara Castle ...that is the scary part .
With so many routes incl;uded in this plan, it's interesting to wonder what would have developed if even 𝒐𝒏𝒆 of them had been built as proposed. Then 𝒕𝒘𝒐 𝒐𝒓 𝒕𝒉𝒓𝒆𝒆, then 𝒎𝒐𝒔𝒕 of them, finally 𝒂𝒍𝒍 of them. I think building them 𝒂𝒍𝒍 would certainly have been serious overkill but, with hindsight, a 𝒇𝒆𝒘 of them could have been pretty useful today. But which ones?😁
In 1946 , the railways were still in a notional private ownership, and London Transport was a Public Board, Neither were Nationalised as Such, that not coming in 1948, by which time building the BRB/LTB this and every other Board under the British Transport Commission took different ideas, and LTB and the Railways were fighting each other for investment, new tubes or new locomotives ? The idea of effectively an Aylesbury to Dartford Line holds interest in that it would have been the central section (via a new central london routing), of Watkins Great Central to the Channel Tunnel, indeed HS1 + HS2 in bits years earlier, an opportunity perhaps lost , or maybe never found.
I'm enjoying this series too, I mean I enjoy pretty much all of your content. Just one thing struck me towards the end, which was where you have a train coming into a station, and just from the sound, I knew it was a jubilee line train. Do you have any information as to why it has such a distinctive sound?
How many abandoned underground tunnels are there in the UK? Do they ever run tours of these tunnels and stations? It would be awesome to get access to a completely untouched underground station from the Art Deco period. Although graffiti always seems to find its way to those type of things first
I don't think there are many abandoned tube tunnels in the London area; typically stations have been closed that are between two others on the same route, rather than a route itself being closed. Also, a lot of the network outside of the central area runs at surface level (or perhaps a bit below it but uncovered), so they'd be disused rail lines rather than abandoned tunnels. If you see what I mean!
It is possible to visit old stations, though. Down Street, I think? There's a waiting list, from what I remember, as they're quite limited in the numbers of people who can visit on any given day. Aldwych was on a spur line and is maintained because it's often used for film and TV work; I'm not sure it's normally possible to buy a ticket to visit it, but they have done guided tours as you can find video footage on TH-cam.
I was told there was an unused station bellow Watford Lower High Street. I think even that ( The street) has disappeared with the new road scheme. I wondered if you know if it was true.
@@Themclachlans The Croxley Rail Link idea seems to have been coming and going for the last 100 years ... sigh. It should have happened. It might still happen? I think the route is still safeguarded. Light rail or trams were suggested recently. The Met never wanted to stop at their present Watford station on the outskirts, they planned to run into central Watford but got turned down.
13 is a not an insignificant number when you consider that 3 lines (assuming cross rail does open in my lifetime) have been completed since world war 2. I'm curious to know, of the 13, how many were considered serious proposals?
Just how many ways are there to pronounce Marylebone? I see that you are in the MaryleBUN camp, but my American accent forbids me from any other pronunciation but MaryleBONE.
Why does every line in this series involve new cross lol, as someone from NW London who now lives in new cross, it certainly would’ve made my life a whole lot easier!
There is a lot to be said about simplicity, not being a Londoner myself the last time I was down there was hard work. Constantly on a tube looking at the map and hoping to God that I had worked out when to change trains. On one particular day, pressed for time I took a bus. It said on the front where it was going to and it did. Still Next time down there I am a little more informed thanks to you. Keep up the good work. As an aside, what are your thoughts on the images to be found on the underground map, the milk bottle and elephant for example.
"tertiary tale from the tube" - you're the gift that keeps giving Jago
Plot twist. When Jago gets to a line that was partially built and later abandoned, we see Geoff in the background of one of Jago's shots. And we see Jago's disembodied voice in the background of one of Geoff's shots. "But you can't see a disembodied voice" I hear you cry. Not normally, no. But Jago's is just that iconic....
HUH? You *see Jago's disembodied voice in the background of one of Geoff's shots*?
So, you'll Hear the light from the window,
You'll see the sound of the sea.
Your feet will come loose from their moorings
And you'll feel quite wonderfly free!
So I guess you'll be
Flying down to Rio tonight,
Using the music for flight!
...........borrowing heavily from Mike Nesmith there! LOL
th-cam.com/video/psfXJeKoDzY/w-d-xo.html
Or, are they the same person? I don't recall ever seeing them in the same video. :)
@@TheCaptScarlett LOL
Enjoying this series very much. Always ready to hear tales of what could've been.
Indeed.
“Doze off for 20 minutes and you’ll end up in Walthamstow”
Doze off for 15 and you end up in seven sisters. A far scarier prospect!
If I were to let my wife travel on the Underground on her own, she'd get stuck on the Circle line all day...
That's by her own admission, I'm not being misogynistic, she finds UK trains a little more confusing than the ones in her home country.
@@RichardWatt Getting stuck on the circle line is quite easy! Particularly if you’re looking to get to Hammersmith and you’re not paying attention. Missing your station by one stop is very irritating. I met an American couple once who thought that meant they had to go round the entire circuit again!
@@RichardWatt Getting stuck on the Circle Line is now much less fun than it used to be. One could indeed travel round and round all day and some homeless people used to to just that.
@SteelRodent always have a map. Never stop to look at the route boards in stations.
@SteelRodent Do you think so? I always found the Paris Metro platform signposting using the line termini a bit confusing. 'Ligne 4, Direction Pte de la Clignancourt' , for example. Give me 'Bakerloo Line, Northbound' any day.
Actually, the real story behind cancelling the scrapping of Marylebone station was that they included in their plans not only the costs for redesigning the Monopoly board but full compensation to all those who had existing boards that they could no longer collect their £200. A proposal was made to compensate those affected by giving them the possibility to put houses on the site, but the preservation society for Orthodox Monopoly Regulations, (the same organisation which imposes fines for those using Free Parking as an illegal underground banking system), obviously blocked these proposals. So Marylebone was saved.
Adding Houses or Hotels to the railway stations seems a great idea, and having seen fulham power station site to the Electricity Company too
*checks calendar - not 1st April, but still.. 🤔
*thinks, my leg is being pulled
@@TheCaptScarlett As far as I know, April 1st does not have a monopoly (ahem) on satire. Sorry to be a nosy Parker, my brother, but you didn't really think I was being serious did you? It reminds me of when SnopesDotCom labels internet sites and You tube videos which are quite obviously comedy and satire, as "Fake News".
On the subject of Captain Scarlet, I always preferred this to its sister series, Thunderbirds. That great scene shown at the beginning of every episode of the camera angle panning up to show Captain Black in uniform, is forever burnt in my memory. (By the way, don't you think that Mikel Arteta, Arsenal's Manager, has an uncanny resemblance to Captain Black? It makes yer think doesn't it!)
I hope I don't upset you too much when I tell you that in fact, Captain Scarlet was not indestructible in real life. Gerry Anderson actually had a number of Captain Scarlet lookalikes made so he could set them on fire and blow them up at his whim. The vehicles they used still look futuristic even today. I feel they should have developed the other characters more. Captain White was really cool. A true leader. Captain Green, his devoted assistant. I would have liked to have seen Captain Blue to have had more air time. I really liked him. Don't get me started with the Angels. As a child, I used to love their French accents and the cold blooded coolness in which they used to carry out their missions. A great series. A kind of European Union Army but with Great Britain in charge!
@@RebMordechaiReviews 👏You had me at the start - it was the compensation part that made me stop.
I've tested it on my quiz group, and some quizzers of national standing fell for it - so bravo.
It has a ring of truth to it like Bob Holness's sax playing on Gerry Rafferty's Baker Street
@@TheCaptScarlett Can you just imagine it? Waddington Board Games would have had to have issued notices in all the papers, requesting ALL those who had purchased a British Monopoly set to go to a pickup point to collect their replacement boards. How many millions of sets must have been sold since the original British edition came out in 1935? Millions and millions.
West Hampstead only has three stations within a stone's throw of one another, I'm sure there's room for more.
As a former Marylebone commuter, an interchange at West Hampstead would have been so useful.
I think West Hampstead (and the whole Hampstead rail networks ), needs a feature all of its own
Unfortunately the main line railways and then BR tended to have a view that everyone wanted to go to central London and longer distance trains should not stop in the suburban area. The idea of a hub for outer London locations did not really occur to them. Likewise the main line platforms at Willesden Junction were lost, and most South Western expresses to Waterloo didn't stop at Clapham Junction (the Brighton line does a bit better). I was shocked to find how difficult it would be to commute from Hampshire to Brentford, basically at peak hours having to go all the way into Waterloo and back out again. Stratford is a better example of how it could be done, and the proposed Old Oak hub is a good idea.
April 2021: I wonder if tube drivers play 'spot the passenger' when they arrive at stations during these strange times...don't seem to be many around...
I think London's still under Tier 4 lockdown rules at the moment.
We were certainly doing it on the routes I drive out in the provinces.
Along with "spot the county lines courier", "spot the druggie off to his/her dealer" and "spot the only passenger who's actually travelling in full compliance with all lockdown rules you'll see this week".
We gave up playing "spot the idiot who believes that face coverings don't actually have to cover their noses unless there's someone official looking at them" and "spot the idiot wearing the face covering on their chin" as those categories cover roughly a third of everyone who travels.
You are the master of understatement !
That map is illegible !
But fun to look at and listen. Thank you
Very wise that they decided to keep Marylebone Station!
This would have been such a handy line. I have lived in Deptford for 9 years and have always felt cut off from central London due to it not being on the tube. There is a Thameslink service which runs from Deptford to West Hampstead now, so in a way I guess that we did get some form of the line after all.
But Wimbledon lost its connection to Luton Airport to provide the capacity, shame
@@highpath4776 Thats frustrating. I did not realise that was the case.
@@theeastendwanderer8277 Deptfords need is greater, I suppose. Oddly the Wimbledon MP is a Minister for Transport
@@highpath4776 I am surprised that they cut the line from Wimbledon, they usually keep the transport links in more affluent areas, lol. In a way not being on the tube has been quite nice because it has forced people to socialise locally and an arts community has grown in Deptford. Its all changing now though. Tower blocks are going up all over Deptford and the area is becoming overpopulated. I guess thats why they added it to the Thamelink service, lol.
@@theeastendwanderer8277 It still runs to somewhere dopey, like Mill Hill or Borehamwood, maybe it is just a covid adjustment - its part to do with trains through the central core frequencies and turnaround of crew on the fuller length of the line/s north.
Jago I don't care if you have a face for radio, your wit and dulcet tones have charmed me and I wish for a face reveal to come (to).
I like the "man of mystery" vibe.
@@fenlinescouser3898 yeah have to say it works for CGP Grey
Loving these. Busily recreating the 1950 tube network (in Nimby Rails) so that I can add in these "planned" routes and see what the world might have had.
Jago: "I hope you enjoyed this..." Well, it turns out no lesser person that Piers Morgan is possibly a viewer. He wrote about the OSCAR show in the Daily Mail. News item: Good Morning Britain presenter savaged the 93rd Academy Awards as he branded the show 'breathtakingly boring' in his latest column. "I'd have been genuinely more entertained if I'd actually just watched trains coming and going."
Piers has discovered something we've known for years.
let's not forget Deptford is twinned with Hampstead. ;O)
In fact it was probably the residents of Hamspstead that put a stop to the line in order to make sure the scallys from Deptford never got there!
Every time I see a dislike on one of your videos I can't help but think to myself "I see those Paris Metro enthusiasts are at it again," and give a little chuckle. Yes, I m that easily amused :)
Great start, listening to you with coffee.☕
Marylebone is London's nicest terminus.
I think it’s very underrated.
Where visions and dreams were left to rot.
The GCR was originally designed/futureproofed with the Channel tunnel and the use of continental rolling stock in mind.
Oh and a small point of order Mr Hazzard, sir. Its 'Marry-le-bone' not 'Marley-bone' - I know everyone says the latter but it comes from St Mary-le-Bone Church. I had a strict upbringing. (idea for another informative video?)
Definitely. It 'book ends' very well with Birmingham's Moor Street station.
@@TheCaptScarlett Interesting point about pronunciation! I was taught that “Marry-le-bone” was a recent affectation, and that the ‘correct’ pronunciation was closer to “Marley-bun”...
And appeared in a couple of music videos and a handful of feature films.(80's?).
I am glad you pronounce Marylebone correctly. I was born there in 1944.
Sounds more like the original Fleet line proposal to me, so very much related to the decision to transfer the Stanmore branch to the new line
Bakerloo, Bakerloo,
How much bread baked by you........LOL
Sorry, I was just "loafing" with this attempt at humour!
Is that to be read in the style of Abba's Waterloo?!
very crummy. I'll see myself out.
@@annother3350 Read in the style of Stonewall Jackson's "Waterloo"!
@@RichardFelstead1949 Well, I never expected to earn a "crust" as a comic! LOL
@@neilforbes416 Was that a shoddy cover version? ;O)
The original proposal for Crossrail (scheduled to open in 1999) had a branch which connected to the Chiltern Line and took over the Aylesbury branch (the old GCR Main Line)
was that via Amersham or via High Wycombe?
@@jeantremlett174 Amersham. It would have also truncated the Metropolitan line.
Lunch in a sunny conservatory and a new Jago video, what more could one want!
Interesting - a nice treat for a Sunday morning. As someone who lives not far from New Cross it would have been interesting to see the impact of this line on the Overground of this line had come to pass...
0:25 "....after much deliberation & 23 yrs of planning & construction...." LOL That's nearing the rank, of Gov't Efficiency!
I’m curious, as to the numbers on delays & cost overruns.
Given that the pre-war planned Central Line extensions DID happen fairly swiftly shows how things could get done. What actually happened post WW2 was the switch to the New Towns with the fear of London getting nuclear obliteration, leaving Crawley , Basingstoke and Harlow just looking like post apopoliptic landscapes
Excellent. Very informative
One thing that intrigues me is how all this capacity would have been achieved. Was the idea that there would be multiple tunnels with separate lines, reducing the conflict between line sharing, points failure, train breakdowns that you already get on the MetCircH&CDis, but with massive interchanges with dozens of platforms/connecting walkways.
It would be fascinating to build it in some train sim like Railroad Tycoon or the like (I'm not current) and see how London pans out.
@SteelRodent If only the blighters spoke English though, eh what!? I bet that hampered our efforts
@SteelRodent "makes sense to look at what Johnny Foreigner has done" - this post-war Britain, that's the last thing we'd do. If a wheel needs reinventing we're your guys. As for half-arsed implementation, with the exception of London 2012, we must be channeling our Danelaw ancestry, so you guys can take the blame for that, coming over here causing us dynastic upset and the basis of our legal system.
How about 'The Tube line to World's End'?
Looking forward to a 'Lines That Never Were' for the Wimbledon - Hainault line.
London would have been a very different place if they had made decisions in the 40s and 50s about these lines!
Not really . Buses and Trams did most of the hard work, maybe less cars, but doubtful ?
Great video jago very interesting as usual 👍👌😀
Yep another thing I didn't know ! , thanks for this as I have a passion for London's trains
It’s now possible to go from Deptford to West Ham since the Thameslink service from Rainham in Kent to Luton Beds started running. My 2 local Stations, Westcombe Park and Maze Hill are on that line. if I ever ant to, I can go in either direction to Rainham about 33 miles away, or Luton 53 miles away on just 1 train. On the other hand if want to go to Charing Cross, which is about 8 miles, I have to take 2 trans and change at London Bridge, and if I go to visit my sister who lives in Grove Park less than 5 miles away, I have to take 3 trains. Local transport in southeast London is pretty crap.
How would you get to West Ham on Thameslink? It doesn't go anywhere near there.......
And you can't expect to have a direct rail connection to every destination, it's impossible! That hardly makes transport "crap" when in fact London has an excellent public transport network.
While the routes are shown as separate lines, were they intended to be alternatives, so only one would be built, or complimentary with a core section/s and fanning out at the ends, like Crossrail 2 has been concieved as ( but again in danger of death via starvation of funds ).
Great video as always !
Very good & intersesting
Stay tuned for more confusion about the tube. My head is beginning to spin. No wonder very little was done to construct more lines to serve London.
Great video once again! I never hesitate to click anyway of your videos
Excellent yet again
The argument against using the abandoned C&SLR tunnels through the City is that they were of a smaller diameter than newer Tube Gauge tunnels, 10 ft 2 in v 11ft 8.25 internal diameter. That's not to say the couldn't have been rebuilt and bored out to the larger gauge of course as happened when the C&SLR was taken over by the UERoL and merged with the CCE&HR.
They are also very steep and are facing the wrong way.
Another awesome video sir
The old GCR was opened around 1897 and seems an ideal HS2. This has been argued about a lot in discussions. BR seems to have had it on for it under Beeching, which is a pity as it was was made for speed and planned for cross channel trains via a tunnel. It was built to Continental loading gauge and with shallow gradients and curves. But the money ran out at Marylebone.
Depending on the popularity of Route Three and the old GCR being complete at the time, there could have been new fast routes to London much earlier, and things, again, could be so much different.
There is an arguement that GC route was not high-speed enough. Thinking of it was less high speed but an efficient route, a good speed and good coal consumption.
@@highpath4776 That sounds about it. It was when it got to detail that there were some good arguments why it wasn't right.
@@neilbain8736 Of course an engineer looking to make a name for themselves, and a set of reports for spending to objectives , I suppose they would say that, wouldnt they. (Still think a terminal in London is wasteful, HS2 should pass through )
The other alternative would have been to divert all the freight from the West Coast Main Line on to the GC line (especially as its wider loading gauge might help with containers, or through trains from Europe if they could get round London) and free up paths on the WCML for more expresses. The GC line's reasonable gradients would also have been good for freight, whereas the curve round its island platforms was not ideal for truly high speed rail (although most of them would have been removed). Nowadays it is curves rather than gradients that are the biggest obstacle to very high speeds.
The Victoria Line could of extend from Walthamstow Central to Woodford or South Woodford. Or could of extended to Chingford. And from Brixton to Camberwell, Dulwich and Croydon. And the Bakerloo Line is to be extended from Elephant & Castle to New Cross/New Cross Gate, Hayes and Lewisham and to Hayes & Bromley by being split at Lewisham. And with 2 new tube stations on Old Kent Road. Which is schedule to happen from next year.
Andrew JG
I often thought that the Victoria line should at least be extended to Whipps Cross or with your suggestion for an extension to Woodford or Chingford have a station there.
A station at Whipps Cross would, with a bit of careful planning, ease the traffic congestion at Walthamstow Central created by the number of bus routes that serve this station.
When coupled with the improvements made for buses at Whipps Cross some of the bus routes could be diverted there and tube passengers could get their onward bus by staying on the tube one more stop thus spreading the need for onward buses between two stations.
I realise at the moment that Walthamstow Central doesn't look very congested but do you remember what it was like pre - pandemic?
I wonder if you agree with me that my suggestion would ease congestion at Walthamstow Central.
@@simonwinter8839 I think you are right. Perhaps it’s impossible to extend the Victoria Line and just keep it as it is.
@@Andrewjg_89 Nothing's impossible!!
I think one more station is,in my opinion, extremely possible and your suggestions would be nice too as well as easing congestion further.
@@simonwinter8839 Absolutely.
So it took 33 years to pluck up the courage to mess with the Bakerloo.
Never mess with the Bakerloo. Ever.
I love how in the midst of the city being obliterated they were planning on building more railways.
Hedging their bets, a plan for a dictator to make the trains run on time is always useful
Nice video! What happened to the "unused tunnel" under the Thames? is it still gathering dust or has a more modern line taken it over?
I believe some of the tunnels are being used by Crossrail for ventilation.
@@JagoHazzard Some have cables in - Colt Telecom stuffed some along in recent years passed.
England should consider itself a city with lots of park. England should be trying to create a rail grid that functions like a metro. In London it would mean diverting the terminating lines underground and linking them up under the city. Tube demand would fall 25% or more. Trains would terminate in the countryside not in cities.
More likely trains would run in a North Kent Loop, Brighton, and Portsmouth. For the North, Oxford or Swindon, Peterborough, Corby and a East Anglian Loop
I notice you mentioned the Great Central in the video. This was in it's way ahead of it's time as it did what it said on the box . I can now see how useful it would have been in 2021...but it was not Beeching who signed its death warrant but if my information is correct Barbara Castle ...that is the scary part .
With so many routes incl;uded in this plan, it's interesting to wonder what would have developed if even 𝒐𝒏𝒆 of them had been built as proposed. Then 𝒕𝒘𝒐 𝒐𝒓 𝒕𝒉𝒓𝒆𝒆, then 𝒎𝒐𝒔𝒕 of them, finally 𝒂𝒍𝒍 of them.
I think building them 𝒂𝒍𝒍 would certainly have been serious overkill but, with hindsight, a 𝒇𝒆𝒘 of them could have been pretty useful today. But which ones?😁
In 1946 , the railways were still in a notional private ownership, and London Transport was a Public Board, Neither were Nationalised as Such, that not coming in 1948, by which time building the BRB/LTB this and every other Board under the British Transport Commission took different ideas, and LTB and the Railways were fighting each other for investment, new tubes or new locomotives ? The idea of effectively an Aylesbury to Dartford Line holds interest in that it would have been the central section (via a new central london routing), of Watkins Great Central to the Channel Tunnel, indeed HS1 + HS2 in bits years earlier, an opportunity perhaps lost , or maybe never found.
Great videos. 👍🏻
Do some of the route share tracks with one another? It seems that many of the routes use the same sections with eachother.
Great Work Earthling Do You Know Any Deep Shelter Entrance's You Can Get In ?
Bless Up :)
There are plans to open the one at Clapham South.
@@JagoHazzard would love to hear about the tale of Clapham South.
Update Us When Possible Fella
Bless Up :)
On a serious note do we know whether the various routes were to be main line loading gauge or tube gauge?
I'm enjoying this series too, I mean I enjoy pretty much all of your content.
Just one thing struck me towards the end, which was where you have a train coming into a station, and just from the sound, I knew it was a jubilee line train. Do you have any information as to why it has such a distinctive sound?
Thrysistors
2:16 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_and_South_London_Railway
How many abandoned underground tunnels are there in the UK?
Do they ever run tours of these tunnels and stations?
It would be awesome to get access to a completely untouched underground station from the Art Deco period.
Although graffiti always seems to find its way to those type of things first
I don't think there are many abandoned tube tunnels in the London area; typically stations have been closed that are between two others on the same route, rather than a route itself being closed. Also, a lot of the network outside of the central area runs at surface level (or perhaps a bit below it but uncovered), so they'd be disused rail lines rather than abandoned tunnels. If you see what I mean!
It is possible to visit old stations, though. Down Street, I think? There's a waiting list, from what I remember, as they're quite limited in the numbers of people who can visit on any given day.
Aldwych was on a spur line and is maintained because it's often used for film and TV work; I'm not sure it's normally possible to buy a ticket to visit it, but they have done guided tours as you can find video footage on TH-cam.
JAAGGGOOO!!
Great video
@1.09 "...the railway intuit". A novel concept or have I been missing something?
Ah jago the resemblance this line has to the victoria line is that its not the victoria line
Would that have been called the Hamford line or the Deptstead line?
Very good video. ty
All the line are for main line trains not tube lines? Would the new routes use the same rails?
I was told there was an unused station bellow Watford Lower High Street. I think even that ( The street) has disappeared with the new road scheme. I wondered if you know if it was true.
Lines that never were - The Croxley Raillink
Croxley (Metropolitan) to Watford Junction along the route of the old West Watford line.
@@Themclachlans How long has/was that in the planning ?
@@Themclachlans The Croxley Rail Link idea seems to have been coming and going for the last 100 years ... sigh. It should have happened. It might still happen? I think the route is still safeguarded. Light rail or trams were suggested recently. The Met never wanted to stop at their present Watford station on the outskirts, they planned to run into central Watford but got turned down.
@@iankemp1131 the idea was certainly around when I was growing up in Croxley (60's and 70's)
I enjoyed that, thanks
more on new cross and new cross gate, and why they exist separately please
That is an incredible coincidence - keep an eye on this channel this Sunday!
13 is a not an insignificant number when you consider that 3 lines (assuming cross rail does open in my lifetime) have been completed since world war 2. I'm curious to know, of the 13, how many were considered serious proposals?
Just how many ways are there to pronounce Marylebone? I see that you are in the MaryleBUN camp, but my American accent forbids me from any other pronunciation but MaryleBONE.
Interesting five-pointed asterisk. We colonials use the six.
Why does every line in this series involve new cross lol, as someone from NW London who now lives in new cross, it certainly would’ve made my life a whole lot easier!
Hi Jaco, there's a bloke doing your schtick on Google called 'Ianvisits' is he a long lost relative?😉👍
Me and my brother used pronounce Marylebone as 'Marrilibone' when we played Monopoly🤭
Marylebone, Minories, Plaistow, these places test our ability to speak the queens english
There is a lot to be said about simplicity, not being a Londoner myself the last time I was down there was hard work. Constantly on a tube looking at the map and hoping to God that I had worked out when to change trains. On one particular day, pressed for time I took a bus. It said on the front where it was going to and it did. Still Next time down there I am a little more informed thanks to you. Keep up the good work. As an aside, what are your thoughts on the images to be found on the underground map, the milk bottle and elephant for example.
I followed a destination on a bus, it went the long way round .
Why is the map illegal?
There was a spam posting on here suggesting that Casual Adults should be Dated. So April 15th. 1946 seems reasonable
The very idea of closing Marylebone Station is outrageous. What about playing on the Monopoly board then, eh? Eh? 00:58
If it had arrived in 1953 probably the Elizabeth Line (or The Coronation Line ),
👍🙏🖖
Corruption