Seems like short haul this has a bright future. Perhaps for long haul a mini-trailer with an APU and fuel tank could turn it into a hybrid, like a diesel electric locomotive.
I use to work for Dr Pepper in Dallas delivering bulk load of soda to grocery stores the routes are short so this truck would work good. In the transport department they did long trips so it wouldn’t be good. Glad their working on it!
I think for an EV truck standpoint, it would be good to see powered/driven trailers with their own batteries and motors as well. Trailers spend a lot of time sitting while being loaded/unloaded , so they could charge while sitting and take some of energy burden off of the tractor. It could also help with regen braking.
Batteries take up a lot of weight and eats into overall trailer capacity. Also think of how high that cost will be. Placing solar cells on top of trailers is a nice idea. This is why they're experimenting using a generator, like a fuel cell for long range applications.
Good Morning Andre, great video! Few things I wanted to point out is the total GVWR on electric semi's is actually 82,000 pounds. Not 80,000 pounds. I believe NHTSA raised the total weight limit by 2,000 pound to accommodate for added weight with batteries. This added legal GVWR is actually more profound (I think 4,000 pounds) in Europe. Another fun fact is the Nikola BEV also has a single drive axle. However, the drive axle is in the middle and not the tail. However, the Nikola does not have a lift-axle like the one shown on this International. Thanks!
@@Burroughsbikebuilds Thank you for that information. This is not good for these vehicles. The weight is going to significantly cut into the weight the trailers can carry. Electric semis are not financially viable because of battery technology. They would be better off looking at hybrid technology.
@@Viccus476 - Like any scenario - It depends. We do short-haul locally in Denver and I would say about 90% of our loads are below 40,000 pounds. Even with the weight penalty the fuel savings would likely outperform financially with our short-haul use case as an example.
One thing I didn't think of that EV trucks like this will really be great at is local deliveries (Think food service (GFS), building materials, etc) vs long haul trucking. Environmental and fuel savings will be huge if a good chunk of the industry can convert
i could totaly see trusses and other building materials being delivered with that. It makes sense honestly, moat of those trucks do less then 100 miles a day on average
Long haul likely wont be feasible, unless we get contactless charging built into our highways, like they are testing in Sweden and Norway. That may be part of the solution for all EVs to really take off, but the costs may be prohibitive.
@@christophersands4140 garbage trucks have huge PTO loads (to run the hydraulics) so i think it might be more limited to how many come out, but we will see them.
I like that you and the rep made it clear that this is a short haul application truck, not a full long haul industry take over type of target. It really makes sense through that lens. Cool stuff!
Another great video from TFL. Both Andre and the rep from International sure had that big "EV grin" during the test drive. Show and tell with the charging station options was also very interesting.
Good job TFL! Amazing that we're finally seeing concepts of all these different companies looking to electrify transportation. Might not be ready yet but love to see progress, maybe a hybrid system might be more suited to trucks driving long distance. No more leaking oily trucks and smell of diesel. Keep bringing content like this TFL!
I am curious if this would be safer to haul in crosswind situations since the battery weight is lower in the chassis than the engine that would sit higher on top of the frame rails.
I just want to make a comment halfway in the video real quick None of these electric trucks talk about what's the range when it's fully loaded and what's the range when it's not loaded. For example if you have a truck that gets 400 miles of range, but you have a delivery 300 miles away. If you planned on driving the truck back empty then your unloaded range would be way longer than 100mi Most companies I ever work for (and I'm a local driver btw) do not come back with loaded trailers after delivery.
The simplicity of this system seems awesome. Range is probably horrible even with 400kwh of batteries. Infrastructure to recharge this stuff is non existent at this time (not at any scale). Charging multiple 18 wheelers is going to require a Costco size parking lot.
Bigger than that.. Large truck stops are already that large... I see issues with the energy supply too. Large truck stops have 200 parking spaces. Those could be the slower chargers.. overnight would be fine. But for quick charging.. I don't see it. It takes about 5-10 min to refuel a Semi, 200-300 gallons of fuel in a long haul.. filling both sides at the same time. And there ends up being a line waiting for fuel at some places. A large truck stop may go thru 5-8 TANKER TRUCKS of fuel per day that's 11,500 Gallons in each tanker.. I worked for one of the largest trucking companies in the US at one point. They used 250 MILLLION gallons of diesel per year at the time. People don't realize the scale of the trucking and logistics required to keep the shelves stocked.
9:56 I've actually run into a few Freightliner eCascadias using Electrify America chargers. Without a doubt, these EV semis need to be 800 V architecture, but the current crop of 350 kW chargers won't be sufficient to serve their needs. We're going to need both full, pull-through charging locations as well as the full 450 kW to 500 kW that CCS1 (and the current crop of chargers) is technically capable of supporting. Ultimately, and especially for long-haul EV semis, we're going to have to look at solutions like that of CharIN's Megawatt Charging System (capable of 3.75 MW). However, it will probably take solid-state batteries with >700 Wh/kg energy density and >5 C charging to make that a reality.
@Larry Flynn The grid, which has to provide four to five times more power during peak times than it does during off peak times when these trucks would normally be charged. By taking up that slack in generation at nighttime, these EV trucks will actually improve the health of the power grid by reducing the amount of cycling our power plants need to do. By making an argument from ignorance, these "pundits" who erroneously claim the power grid isn't up to the task have inadvertently made one of the strongest arguments in favor of transitioning to EVs. 🤣🤣🤣
@Larry Flynn Yes, peak time consumptions are when brown outs occur, but these trucks would not generally be charged during peak times (because they don't have to be). Those brown outs typically happen because slower cycling power plants (e.g. coal and some natural gas plants) need to be brought online to support the sudden increase in load. As a result, the utilities already provide significant economic incentives (i.e., lower cost for electricity) for charging during off-peak hours because their extremely slow cycling plants (typically coal or nuclear) can't be cycled without damaging the plant. As a result, commercial operations that are interested in these trucks aren't likely to activate their charging until after 9 pm, when they can charge for the lowest cost. And that's easy to do because most chargers and EVs now come with TOU settings, so this is simply something that they would set and forget. The only real concern is making sure that they are using chargers that will charge the trucks to full in about 6 to 8 hours (say 10 pm to 4 am). When I refer to arguments from ignorance, it's because people who claim these EV trucks will negatively affect the grid are clueless about the concepts I shared above. Basically, they don't know enough about EVs or the power grid to even discuss the topic; otherwise, they would already know better and understand that these EV trucks will actually improve the health of the power grid. In other words, if they are making those erroneous arguments while actually knowing enough to discuss EVs and the power grid, they are bad faith actors purposely misleading people and sharing misinformation. So rather than assuming they are intentionally lying, I'm assuming that they are simply ignorant.
2:58 usually the air brakes needs to charge and it takes lots of fuel usually right, so that functionality is still the same or since it is electric, it would change (like fill the air faster or whatever)?
Winter time will be so nice. Unplug it.PTI. Turn it on. Leave. No fighting it to start and warm up and worrying about if your waited long enough to not let the head gasket pop. I love Diesel engines but the convenience of this dominates.
I’d like to see the math of fuel costs, my savings estimate is anywhere from $15k to $60k a year at current prices and a route of 60-200+ miles. That right there would justify the higher investment.
Don't forget some states have 40-100k heavy duty ev incentives as well. If the new ira bill gets passed Into law for next year? Every ev semi could be ellligible for an at pos rebate of up to 40k on top of the state and or local incentives. Someone showed how in Cali a base 300 miles tesla semi would be less than 10k in total after the Cali rebate and the new ira rebate. 😀
This actually seems like the more sensible approach. Multiple motors can come on when needed & off to save energy. More even weight distribution. Mass production of the same motor & equipped as options four states where it’s not needed. Better reliability by dividing the use over different motors.
I wish my company had these. Even 5 tonne models would probably save us a buttload on diesel. We run pretty much 24 hours (different drivers obviously.) Regional delivery and courier work. Now that i think the trucks don't run for about 4 hours but then do a night and day shift. I think this kinda thing is actually sorely needed. Sounds like work you can feel good about doing. Plus you are basically playing with really cool rc cars you get into!
It would make the trailers way more expensive but how about putting batteries on those? The driver could hook up the power to his truck and the trailers can be recharged when they're either getting loaded up or when they're not in use. They would also have a lot of room for panels. I think I custom body would be needed to make these more mainstream. Making the cab more aerodynamic would improve efficiency.
Not an original thought I'm sure, but has anyone seen discussion about multiple battery packs and multiple chargers? Given the charge limitations from one charger to one battery pack, why not multiple? 1megawatt charger would be great but still would take a long time with a decent sized battery. Two chargers (hypothetically) into two packs (or packs that can have different sections charging at the same time) would halve that time. Not like we are space constrained, or have serious aesthetic concerns, in regard to having multiple charge points on a big rig. Given we don't have truck charging infrastructure in place, they can still experiment in setting it up however they want.
There are two plug stand up electrics absolutely! There is also "in series" and "in parallel" battery systems I think in traditional chemical battery composition. Fuel cells are built in a "stack" I believe and have one very big advantage over any other system namely they must have a super-chilled fuel system as part and parcel to the engineering system so that is what I would call similar to the windows operating system giving a "proper boot up" for the vehicle. No one gave Andre his vehicle inspection form either...nor did the vehicle have any safety features for simply going in reverse. The list of what is totally wrong with this Truck from before you literally have to "turn a key"(?) ... I'd have more than a few questions before entering that Cab anyways.
The configuration they are testing makes sense given that most trucks run in that mode. The front drive axle on a tandem drive truck is only engaged when extra traction is needed. There are also a surprising number of tag axle and lift axle trucks out there. With the tag axle trucks the forward axle is driven, while the rear is just there to help support the weight.
11:00 -ish Battery Modules roll up, drop drained battery packs, raise charged battery packs, roll merrily away! ... so, maybe a co-op kinda setup between drivers and charge'n'drop stations... (edit) still, Interesting stuff!
If it's not the direct future, it's the near future, and the path with the most potential. If you like anything about an EV big rig, that's good, because it will all get better. I think that's the most exciting thing, the potential for advancement. We haven't found the limits of combustion engines, but I think most can agree battery and motor breakthroughs are coming hard and fast.
What about weight of the tractor? Depending on what you are transporting weight is very important. every pound extra the tractor weights is less payload - less $$$ per load
5:05 I'm glad they're emphasizing the point that these EV semis outperform diesel in every performance metric. So really, this technology is a no-brainer. The energy now needs to be spent on improving energy density/range. Better batteries, HFC, SOFC, etc. are all options, and they're all becoming available sooner than many people realize.
@@foellerd For commercial use, the ROI already skews heavily in favor of EVs much faster than it does for private party purchases. The differences in fuel, maintenance, wear and tear, etc. pay for themselves very quickly when you're driving 100+ miles a day, 5 days a week. $20 of electricity a day versus $60 of diesel a day (a $10,000+ per year difference) is often significant enough before even factoring in the huge disparity in maintenance costs. Obviously, we still want to see the upfront costs come down (which they will, naturally), but for 10+ year timeframes, there's no doubt that EV semis are already the superior option.
For Local or Regional freight these are a NO BRAINER.. maintenance cost on Diesels are high.. especially with all the EPA crap on the new engines. They are a NIGHTMARE.. DPF Filters.. EGR, and coolers, and DEF systems. All very failure prone and expensive to repair.. and they put you out of service, that is the BIG cost. Short haul and city trucks are especially susceptible to these failures.. they don't get the exhaust hot enough long enough to make the EPA systems work well. But for long haul stuff.. especially expedited freight.. The charging speed and rang will not matter.. the number of charging locations will be the big issue. I do not see a way to get the chargers to EVERY truck stop in the country. Freight like this is so random in its route and it timing. A long haul truck will be carrying 300 gallons of Diesel.. Giving a range of 1800-2400 miles. and can be refueled in say 15 min or so. Even at a regular gas station in an emergency. Maybe you could do diesel powered long haul to designated regional drop zones... and then have EV trucks grab the trailer and take it the last 50-100 miles. But that complicates the logistics a lot. It will happen.. but its gonna take time and be done in stages.
@@kens97sto171 For long-haul, I wouldn't be surprised to see some effort put into powered trailers. Ultimately, overall weight would still be a factor, but having one or two trailers with their own daisy-chained powertrains and ~400 kWh packs would go a long way... literally. Paired with the right EV semi, it could easily achieve 1,000 miles with a full load. EVgo and GM are currently partnering with Pilot to add 350 kW, pull-through charging stalls at their locations around the country, but those would really only be used in a pinch. There needs to be dedicated EV semi stops with >1 MW charging at all of these travel centers, too.
@@newscoulomb3705 You're right you're going to need dedicated megawatt EV charging for trucks. I spent a lot of time traveling all over the country when I was over the road trucker. The scale of accomplishing that is pretty astounding. There are truck stops in every corner of the country in all kinds of odd places. Perhaps you could do those large megawatt chargers at big truck stops on the major routes. But you're going to have to work out the logistics of how to get that last 200 MI into the middle of nowhere. And then figure out how to get back. Solar on top of a semi trailer might give you some additional range. And like you said put batteries in the trailers. You just have to wonder at what point are you just better off continuing to use diesel for the long haul stuff. It's a lot of money and expense for not that much change. About 80% of trucking is regional short Hall by volume. But that 20% involves long distances over terrain that has not much in it. You might be better off living with the 20% burning fossil fuels. Diesels are about 45% efficient, and the energy density of that fuel is pretty astounding. For constant speed down the highway they're also pretty efficient and clean. Maybe some kind of hybrid system would be an option also. Have enough battery for start and stop in the city, but a smaller more efficient diesel engine that runs it constant speed for running down interstates. Even if we just replace the 80% regional and local freight with EVS it'll make a huge difference in pollution and cost for the shippers and consignees.
8:14 with a vehicle like this using regen on local roads have they/is it measured if the environment cooler because the brakes are not venting heat to the outside air and road service?
Careful Andre, Kase is on your heels driving big rigs. lol While you are doing the good Samaritan routine on vacation, he steals your thunder behind the wheel of semi trucks. 😂 Imagine the "frunk" space on one of these things. 😂 Single cabs will have a built in sleeper in the nose. 🙂 At least this guy is realistic about mentioning the fact the infrastructure is a long ways away from accommodating a commercial trucking scenario. Time is $ and trucks that cost that much sitting on a cable charging is a big problem.
I manage 25 trucks, with 3 types of routes. Some local routes less than 300 miles per day and average 10 stops. Some regional routes that got out back daily 500 miles 1-2 stops per day, and some long haul trucks that are gone for weeks at a time nation-wide. We recently ordered 5 EV trucks from a different manufacturer. I’m excited to try this out, and the best part of this is there is no DEF system with sensors that break constantly. We are also looking at alternatives for the longer haul trucks, but currently it is not feasible to consider them for most applications. The long haul trucks are moving about 22 hours per day. Besides these 5 trucks usually go only 25-40 miles between stops and never leave the metro area. I’m not ready to send one of these 250 miles from the nearest shop and have it break down. I had a standard truck towed 150 miles last month and spent $3500.
Here’s my idea and don’t know why it hasn’t been done. The truck should only have a short range battery. The main large battery should be in the trailer. Trucking companies doing long haul should have a half way point where they can exchange trailers that already been fully charged by the drop off driver for the return leg. This would eliminate the waiting around for a truck to be charged and would only have down time during driver breaks. You’re welcome electric truck companies!
@@Frosstbite23 That’s a load of rubbish! You could have the cables connected to a breaker that wouldn’t supply power until they are secured properly. It’s really not that hard.
@@pk-so1mj beside the safety point, adding weight to trailers reduces cargo capacity, which is the opposite of what our customers want. It's a regional tractor and doesn't need that amount of battery.
@@Frosstbite23 You will notice that I was talking about long haul not regional. If you are removing weight from the truck the max GCM will still be the same as if the batteries were in the truck itself. Who cares if you reduce the max payload of the trailer by a couple of tonnes to reduce the operating cost and move into a greener future. You can’t get something for nothing. Either trucks are going to have a massive battery and reduced trailer weight to not go over gross combination or vice verse so there really isn’t an argument there.
I'd love to see more hybrid focused commercial setups. Kind of like what Edison Motors is doing. A diesel motor running at it's most efficient rpm acting as a generator to create electricity. Best of both worlds.
Hyliion has some really good concepts like this, except it is designed to run on natural gas and is working on building out a renewable natural gas network.
Hybrids make no sense at all for long haul driving because the benefit of a hybrid is regenerative braking, which only works in stop and go driving. On the highway, when you're using little or no brakes, there's little or no benefit, you're just adding weight and complexity, which is actually a negative.
@@ColeMarkusen I mean, when applying brakes. That includes stop and go, and controlling downhill speed. Either way, you're missing the point. The benefit is minimal, not enough to justify the weight, cost and complexity. For every one mile of downhill braking, there are hundreds of miles of minimal or no braking. With that, there's no point in regenerative braking.
They have to start some place but at least they're working on it. International is doing a great job and so are the other big truck manufactorer's. Also I viewed your video on the International school bus which I think is great.
17:03 I'd love to see International work with GM on this. The Hydrotec Mobile Power Generator (MPG) can be paired with a 150 kW CCS charger. Obviously, the concern is hydrogen, but if these are temporary loans, a full tank should support several dozen fill ups.
@@robertryan7204 Why not? VW Group has traditionally given a lot of independence to their subsidiaries, and Navistar is a subsidiary of a subsidiary of VW. Besides which, when I say "work with," I don't necessarily mean create a business partnership. I simply mean that they can buy a technology from GM that they can't build in house.
@@newscoulomb3705 Not really going to happen as Scania has it's own Hydrogen set ups in Europe as well as LPG, Natural Gas,Electric Trucks plus a vast range of Diesel engines. Like IVECO ( Fiat owned)has paired with Nikola . Scsnia/ MAN are more interested in International doing EV Scouts and Vans.
@@robertryan7204 Sure, but as far as I know, they don't make a similar product to Hydrotec's MPG. However, I can see what you mean about VAG being too proud to do business with a competing company. It would probably put egg on their face to buy a solution like that from GM.
@@newscoulomb3705 Scania/ MAN seem to be trying to get International to the stage of being a najor player in the US Truck market. Scania would have something like that devrloped or being developed Not VW Corporate but Scania wants to develop it's own Truck network in North America using the International brand. MAN has it's VW Truck brand in South America
Don't get me wrong I love diesels with the rumble and sound, also like me a good manual transmission truck, but hey this is extremely easy. For local routes no need for a long start up, engine maintenance, etc.
I'm sure it's already a thought in the engineers' minds, but solar panels on the roof of the trailers could extend the range and be charging while sitting.
Not really. You might get 7kw worth of panels on a trailer. You wouldn't notice any gain from that. Yes it's been discussed, but the weight penalty negates any gain in SOC.
These truck manufactures need to try there best to incorporate a huge frunk in their trucks. Truckers usually want to carry a lot of extra gear, so if they don't have the room in the cabs, a frunk would be a big selling feature, in my opinion.
Local routes only for this tech. Long distance routes will require swapping batteries. There are large companies working on quick swaps for fleets. Independent will get squeezed. Videos on YT.
I don’t know if this will happen but I am interested to see if there will be electric 3/4 ton and up trucks. The instant torque could make them great, and they would be perfect for local work like on construction and mine sites. I know it wouldn’t be as popular with regular RV owners and hot shot driving unless they can run 6+ hours on the highway without stopping to charge and quick recharge that current technology can’t really do, also battery technology might not be able to hold that much energy in such a small amount of space but it’s a good idea for the near future
I hope we can get something for the near future that can deliver the goods. As for hours of service, charge stations, it's going to be a nightmare for otr drivers, I think I would give up my CDL and get another job. No way I would be stuck three days a week waiting on a charge station while freezing or roasting in the heat just to save enough battery to start getting charged up just to get moving and have to do it all again in a few hours. Also, we're just trading diesel emissions for coal emissions. We're just lying to ourselves if we think that we are going "green". I'm glad I got to drive big rigs in the golden days. R.I.P. trucking industry. Get ready to starve America.
Really should move into a hybrid model at least or the time being, with really small if any recharging stations that can not only house, but facilitate big rigs and trailers
Hyliion currently has a hybrid diesel or CNG solution in production, and their ERX fully electric with on-board charging via CNG is due for production in 2023 will be the only immediate viable long-haul solution. Charging infrastructure or Hydrogen infrastructure will take several years to be implemented. You should do a video on Hyliion!
6:30 I think 400 kWh to 500 kWh is just about the sweet spot for these EV semis right now. Depending on load and conditions, that should be at least 300 to 400 miles of real-world range. So they're ideal for regional/short-haul applications.
More like 150-300 miles. Electric Pick ups towing are only getting 100 miles per 100 kWh with GVW under 20k lbs. Still good enough for local deliveries.
@@guyod1 Overall, pickups are less efficient per unit of load than semis when towing. Yes, there can definitely be some times where the EV semi will see significant reduction in efficiency, but most of that will be due to elevation increases, where the EV semi will be recouping a lot of that energy back. I would expect these semis under basic loads to have efficiencies between .75 and 1 mi/kWh. Sure, it could dip lower than that for higher speed freeway travel (probably closer to .5 mi/kWh), but that's sustained 55 to 65 mph driving.
@@guyod1 Where did Tesla state this? Can you cite a source? To my knowledge, Tesla has never provided actual battery capacities for their semi. All I've seen them state is that the efficiency will be "less than 2 mi/kWh," so they could be claiming as much as 750 to 1,000 miles on a 500 kWh pack.
Nice video. How many miles/kwh with a load? Looks like you can do about 500KwH in batteries without incurring a weight penalty compared to a diesel and transmission. So, how far can a loaded semi go on 500KwH? if it is .25 m/Kw then 125 miles which would only be good for really short stuff. .5 gets 250 miles. Anybody have an idea?
For long-haul trucks, wireless charging on the road will solve this. It's similar to wireless phone charging except more powerful with a much longer charging distance. The power is less than wall charging, but it should at least give enough power to maintain speed. Then the battery will have enough power when moving away from the main Interstate that has wireless charging. The wireless charger can also be placed in parking spaces for overnight charging. Just thinking. Anyway, thanks for the many informative videos!
@@leviduff2740 It's happening already. Qualcomm is now making a Wireless Electric Vehicle Charging (WEVC) system for cars and roads. Get used to having a longer range.
The way I see it the cost of wireless charging systems combined with the fact that it's not a very fast way to charge is going to kill it. However doing something like what they do with street cars in Europe would cost less and be much more capable of quickly charging a truck. Look up the system if you're not familiar with it, they use overhead wires with a arm riding on the wires. It's been in use for decades already.
@@leviduff2740 Yes, wired road charging was done already for decades. Large trucks for example can reach the high-hanging cables and provide more power. Small cars don't require as fast charging. I see a use for wireless and wired charging.
Couldn’t the precedent of multiple diesel tanks translate to having multiple charge ports? There has to be a way to intelligently split batteries so you divide the charge time by the number of ports.
No. It doesn't work that way. The two batteries have to be within basically 1V of each other or VCU detects it as a problem. Charging separately leaves it prone to having the voltages not match.
I understand that. But these battery packs are all a bunch of cells that have to be within a voltage tolerance of each other. I don’t think it would happen overnight; the technology would need to be developed. There is already a handshake between the vehicle’s charging computer and the charger itself. I’m just suggesting the vehicle communicate to two chargers at once and control the flow of both to get that balance. I did imply that it would be a halved charge time with two ports; that was an oversimplification. Most charging curves slow down at the end and in my idea would probably have a slower ending with all that negotiation and balancing. Maybe 2 ports = 65% of the one port time.
@@kevinbusker3634 as long as they target balanced charging it would work fine, but having multiple charge ports will over complicate the system in some respects, especially if it takes longer to charge. I like your thoughts here but I think this would add unnecessary costs
Whenever I see videos like this its always in ideal weather. What about when its 15 below zero or 115 degrees? The stuff batteries do not like. I am sure electric would be good for short distance deliveries in nice weather what about in north dakota in the middle of winter?
Great now what would make it perfect is to remove one battery pack, add a diesel gas tank, a small perhaps 3.0 l diesel to run an electric generator and maybe you can make a long haul truck with good efficiency.
Do the headlights and running lights run off of this same battery or do they run off a alternate battery for emergency situations? If everything runs off of these batteries that seems very unsafe in a breakdown situation.
All electric cars have a separate 12V system (trucks have 24V usually) with a regular AGM/lead acid-battery because components like lights and instruments run at 12/24 V like in any other vehicle. The 400 V (or whatever is used) system trickle charges the 12/24 V just like an alternator would. The 12/24 V system is also required to switch on the 400V system, so a dead 12 V battery in an EV can actually stop you going anywhere even if there is juice in the 400 V.
It seems like they could stick with this single- axle main drive, and add small hub motors, even like those on the Aptera (which are probably about 100hp each), for the other axles for distributed power and lower complexity and awd traction.
This is where EV needs to go soon! Semis are so slow, stinky, loud, and hold all traffic up. This would make driving one another more efficient and easy and Safer. But they need to get the range waaaay the hell up and the recharging a hell of a lot faster before it becomes realistic
@@jamesengland7461 I agree to a point. But a little better would be good lol. And also while in motion passing or going up a mountain pass such as Eisenhower in Colorado.
Driving 80,000 plus pound down the road as if it is a passenger vehicle, is homicidal behaviour. Many of today's "professional" drivers seem to be under the impression that it is acceptable. It is a miracle that more wrecks and deaths do not take place than actually occur. Trucks are assigned lower speed limits for good reason.
It's not going to work for a long haul driver or even a regional driver in the winter months. What is road salt going to do to the electric connections? Where are you getting the electricity to charge it. The power grid can't handle AC units in the summer. What happens when you plug in a million trucks at night.
Food for thought. One gallon of diesel equates to 40KWH. I just went 1127 miles on 188 gallons of diesel at 72,000 pounds gross. Approximately 7250 kWh of energy. That’s an X-15 500 hp and 2050 lb ft torque, 13 manual and a kenworth w900. Doing 75 mph the whole way……
Actually any EV, large or small ultimately will be far cheaper than any ICE. It's simply a matter of mass production. No ICE vehicle can be built as cheaply as and EV.
In my opinion, the lower maintenance and fewer parts claim of electric semi trucks is being over hyped and has more than a little hyperbole. You still have all the truck bits a diesel powered truck has. Virtually no change there. So for all the maintenance those bits require is carrying over. You still have that big electric motor, and it’s size still mandate a number of big parts to make it go and stop. While maybe less, it still needs a maintenance and repair plus parts infrastructure behind it. And you’re adding a pot full of electronics, the electronic hardware and wiring components to make it all work. And then there is the battery and it’s charger circuit. That critter has thousands of parts, if not tens of thousands. There is going to be a huge support infrastructure for those as well. And its all very heavy. A 75 to 300 gallon fuel tank is 2x4 board simple in comparison. The current cost of the electric fuel over diesel fuel is significantly less, but don’t forget, road taxes are soon going to be added to that cost just as they are for diesel fuel. And all that electrical charging infrastructure has a huge capital cost and not an exactly no charge maintenance and operational cost to make it all work. The support needs for the electric semi is still there. Just the skills, procedures, training and tools needed are going to have a different mix
So if it just takes Heavy loads... trees.. Down hill.. and run back up empty... Free energy? Ok ... I know that's not happening.,.. but lets say.. Fully loaded down 100 miles, empty back up... how much regen we talking?
Aussie long haul driver here As usual all important stats not given ie tare weight of tractor Which directly affects max payload and therefore profitability and of course RANGE at max weight! Price? Life of battery pack? Replacement cost? My 600 hp volvo max loaded with 2 trailers is 65 tonnes and has a range of 2200 km all day every day Until evs can approach even 50% of these freely available factual figures evs remain a science fiction lovers wet dream for heavy trucking 🤣🤣
I don't know if anyone from industry would read this but especially if you are adding battery packs to increase range then why not just add more charging ports? It looked like the truck in this video had two packs 250-300 kwh each or something like it so would it not make seance to increase the charging speed as well as reducing component stress by having an option to plug in each pack to its own charger? I could Imagen truck stops having pull through charging spots with 2 4 or 6 cheaper slandered chargers 1 2 or 3 on each side of the truck to me it would be the most logical way to go .
Using a fuel cell as a generator to charge the battery for long distance routes is the right move. Imo, they should also look into using diesel or natural gas generators for today's use, to increase range. Yes, they will get flack for it, but it's actually more efficient to use fossil fuels as a generator for electricity to powered a vehicle, than using the conventional ICE method. Strange how that works lol.
But does it pull 102,000 pounds and run for a 15 hour day. Pulling through mud, gravel and pavement? Around 800 km per day that’s a local worker where I am anyway. Or do I still need to buy 2 trucks to do one trucks work?
Enjoyed the video except...so many questions. On the one hand the rep kept stressing that this was a concept, not production vehicle, but on the other, he talked about the customers the are working with and what chargers they use? What vehicles do they use? How many miles per day are those vehicles driving? What's the current range on these in production vehicles? What's the current range on the featured vehicle in this video? What's the goal range? I don't know, I'm torn, I like to see this kind of content, BUT, if a company isn't ready to talk about ranges actual and goals, I don't know if they are ready for marketing their product through shows like these?
I'm game for quiet delivery, school buses, and local rigs running through town and city centers. Just the reduction in noise pollution is worth it.
I am sure counties are looking at this very seriously for their school buses!!
I'd like to note that a surprising amount of noise comes from tire noise which will never really go away. Still better though
@@VeMultiVo At low speeds in town (trash truck, etc.), most of the noise is from the engine.
I hate the rude awakenings I get from the dumpster trucks.
The impact of PM 2.5 is very adverse on growth of young minds .. we need to stop burning yesterday 😭😭
Seems like short haul this has a bright future. Perhaps for long haul a mini-trailer with an APU and fuel tank could turn it into a hybrid, like a diesel electric locomotive.
I use to work for Dr Pepper in Dallas delivering bulk load of soda to grocery stores the routes are short so this truck would work good. In the transport department they did long trips so it wouldn’t be good.
Glad their working on it!
I have picked up a load from there. Kind of strange that you have to drive around to the back.
I think for an EV truck standpoint, it would be good to see powered/driven trailers with their own batteries and motors as well. Trailers spend a lot of time sitting while being loaded/unloaded , so they could charge while sitting and take some of energy burden off of the tractor. It could also help with regen braking.
Add solar on to of that for even more possibilities
Batteries take up a lot of weight and eats into overall trailer capacity. Also think of how high that cost will be. Placing solar cells on top of trailers is a nice idea.
This is why they're experimenting using a generator, like a fuel cell for long range applications.
Good Morning Andre, great video!
Few things I wanted to point out is the total GVWR on electric semi's is actually 82,000 pounds. Not 80,000 pounds. I believe NHTSA raised the total weight limit by 2,000 pound to accommodate for added weight with batteries. This added legal GVWR is actually more profound (I think 4,000 pounds) in Europe.
Another fun fact is the Nikola BEV also has a single drive axle. However, the drive axle is in the middle and not the tail. However, the Nikola does not have a lift-axle like the one shown on this International.
Thanks!
You are correct! Thank you for clarifying.
How much does it weigh?
@@Viccus476 - power unit only for the Nikola was 29,400 pounds. Add a pound or two with a full charge of electrons. ;)
@@Burroughsbikebuilds Thank you for that information. This is not good for these vehicles. The weight is going to significantly cut into the weight the trailers can carry. Electric semis are not financially viable because of battery technology. They would be better off looking at hybrid technology.
@@Viccus476 - Like any scenario - It depends. We do short-haul locally in Denver and I would say about 90% of our loads are below 40,000 pounds. Even with the weight penalty the fuel savings would likely outperform financially with our short-haul use case as an example.
One thing I didn't think of that EV trucks like this will really be great at is local deliveries (Think food service (GFS), building materials, etc) vs long haul trucking. Environmental and fuel savings will be huge if a good chunk of the industry can convert
i could totaly see trusses and other building materials being delivered with that. It makes sense honestly, moat of those trucks do less then 100 miles a day on average
@@mattepple6759 garbage trucks too
Long haul likely wont be feasible, unless we get contactless charging built into our highways, like they are testing in Sweden and Norway. That may be part of the solution for all EVs to really take off, but the costs may be prohibitive.
@@christophersands4140 garbage trucks have huge PTO loads (to run the hydraulics) so i think it might be more limited to how many come out, but we will see them.
I like that you and the rep made it clear that this is a short haul application truck, not a full long haul industry take over type of target. It really makes sense through that lens. Cool stuff!
Perfect for regional deliveries and the ware house with a 2 acre roof can be filled with solar panels to charge vehicles while loading.
Another great video from TFL. Both Andre and the rep from International sure had that big "EV grin" during the test drive. Show and tell with the charging station options was also very interesting.
Good job TFL! Amazing that we're finally seeing concepts of all these different companies looking to electrify transportation. Might not be ready yet but love to see progress, maybe a hybrid system might be more suited to trucks driving long distance. No more leaking oily trucks and smell of diesel. Keep bringing content like this TFL!
I always look forward to driving this truck during demos. It's a real treat for customers.
Cue the “this won’t work for me so it won’t work for anyone” posts in 3, 2, 1…
🤣 spot on
I am curious if this would be safer to haul in crosswind situations since the battery weight is lower in the chassis than the engine that would sit higher on top of the frame rails.
Maintenance cost will be significantly cheap. Less waste. Great for municipal, school, local fleets.
Thanks, it's really cool to see the commercial applications of EV's.
I just want to make a comment halfway in the video real quick
None of these electric trucks talk about what's the range when it's fully loaded and what's the range when it's not loaded.
For example if you have a truck that gets 400 miles of range, but you have a delivery 300 miles away. If you planned on driving the truck back empty then your unloaded range would be way longer than 100mi
Most companies I ever work for (and I'm a local driver btw) do not come back with loaded trailers after delivery.
13:30 Freightliner has been testing the eCascadia platform for some time now, and their final production models are coming to market this year.
Yes! He said "Automated" and not automatic. You a real one!
The simplicity of this system seems awesome. Range is probably horrible even with 400kwh of batteries. Infrastructure to recharge this stuff is non existent at this time (not at any scale). Charging multiple 18 wheelers is going to require a Costco size parking lot.
Bigger than that.. Large truck stops are already that large...
I see issues with the energy supply too. Large truck stops have 200 parking spaces. Those could be the slower chargers.. overnight would be fine.
But for quick charging.. I don't see it.
It takes about 5-10 min to refuel a Semi, 200-300 gallons of fuel in a long haul.. filling both sides at the same time. And there ends up being a line waiting for fuel at some places.
A large truck stop may go thru 5-8 TANKER TRUCKS of fuel per day that's 11,500 Gallons in each tanker..
I worked for one of the largest trucking companies in the US at one point.
They used 250 MILLLION gallons of diesel per year at the time.
People don't realize the scale of the trucking and logistics required to keep the shelves stocked.
Plug in Battery Packs maybe better?
I love this International. Thank you for making this video.
9:56 I've actually run into a few Freightliner eCascadias using Electrify America chargers. Without a doubt, these EV semis need to be 800 V architecture, but the current crop of 350 kW chargers won't be sufficient to serve their needs. We're going to need both full, pull-through charging locations as well as the full 450 kW to 500 kW that CCS1 (and the current crop of chargers) is technically capable of supporting.
Ultimately, and especially for long-haul EV semis, we're going to have to look at solutions like that of CharIN's Megawatt Charging System (capable of 3.75 MW). However, it will probably take solid-state batteries with >700 Wh/kg energy density and >5 C charging to make that a reality.
@Larry Flynn The grid, which has to provide four to five times more power during peak times than it does during off peak times when these trucks would normally be charged. By taking up that slack in generation at nighttime, these EV trucks will actually improve the health of the power grid by reducing the amount of cycling our power plants need to do.
By making an argument from ignorance, these "pundits" who erroneously claim the power grid isn't up to the task have inadvertently made one of the strongest arguments in favor of transitioning to EVs. 🤣🤣🤣
@Larry Flynn Yes, peak time consumptions are when brown outs occur, but these trucks would not generally be charged during peak times (because they don't have to be). Those brown outs typically happen because slower cycling power plants (e.g. coal and some natural gas plants) need to be brought online to support the sudden increase in load.
As a result, the utilities already provide significant economic incentives (i.e., lower cost for electricity) for charging during off-peak hours because their extremely slow cycling plants (typically coal or nuclear) can't be cycled without damaging the plant. As a result, commercial operations that are interested in these trucks aren't likely to activate their charging until after 9 pm, when they can charge for the lowest cost.
And that's easy to do because most chargers and EVs now come with TOU settings, so this is simply something that they would set and forget. The only real concern is making sure that they are using chargers that will charge the trucks to full in about 6 to 8 hours (say 10 pm to 4 am).
When I refer to arguments from ignorance, it's because people who claim these EV trucks will negatively affect the grid are clueless about the concepts I shared above. Basically, they don't know enough about EVs or the power grid to even discuss the topic; otherwise, they would already know better and understand that these EV trucks will actually improve the health of the power grid.
In other words, if they are making those erroneous arguments while actually knowing enough to discuss EVs and the power grid, they are bad faith actors purposely misleading people and sharing misinformation. So rather than assuming they are intentionally lying, I'm assuming that they are simply ignorant.
2:58 usually the air brakes needs to charge and it takes lots of fuel usually right, so that functionality is still the same or since it is electric, it would change (like fill the air faster or whatever)?
Winter time will be so nice. Unplug it.PTI. Turn it on. Leave. No fighting it to start and warm up and worrying about if your waited long enough to not let the head gasket pop. I love Diesel engines but the convenience of this dominates.
You get less range in extreme cold and extreme heat. So waiting 20 mins to warm a truck will seem like nothing compared to keeping it charged.
I’d like to see the math of fuel costs, my savings estimate is anywhere from $15k to $60k a year at current prices and a route of 60-200+ miles. That right there would justify the higher investment.
Don't forget some states have 40-100k heavy duty ev incentives as well. If the new ira bill gets passed Into law for next year?
Every ev semi could be ellligible for an at pos rebate of up to 40k on top of the state and or local incentives. Someone showed how in Cali a base 300 miles tesla semi would be less than 10k in total after the Cali rebate and the new ira rebate. 😀
That’s huge .. for 10 year life time the savings are so big
@@4literv6 around the price of a used Leaf…
Not to mention the reliability aspect. Modern day diesel are notoriously unreliable with there emissions restrictions
all wheel drive with torque vectoring for winter would be awesome.
This actually seems like the more sensible approach. Multiple motors can come on when needed & off to save energy. More even weight distribution. Mass production of the same motor & equipped as options four states where it’s not needed. Better reliability by dividing the use over different motors.
I wish my company had these. Even 5 tonne models would probably save us a buttload on diesel. We run pretty much 24 hours (different drivers obviously.) Regional delivery and courier work. Now that i think the trucks don't run for about 4 hours but then do a night and day shift. I think this kinda thing is actually sorely needed. Sounds like work you can feel good about doing. Plus you are basically playing with really cool rc cars you get into!
It would make the trailers way more expensive but how about putting batteries on those? The driver could hook up the power to his truck and the trailers can be recharged when they're either getting loaded up or when they're not in use. They would also have a lot of room for panels.
I think I custom body would be needed to make these more mainstream. Making the cab more aerodynamic would improve efficiency.
Not an original thought I'm sure, but has anyone seen discussion about multiple battery packs and multiple chargers? Given the charge limitations from one charger to one battery pack, why not multiple? 1megawatt charger would be great but still would take a long time with a decent sized battery. Two chargers (hypothetically) into two packs (or packs that can have different sections charging at the same time) would halve that time. Not like we are space constrained, or have serious aesthetic concerns, in regard to having multiple charge points on a big rig.
Given we don't have truck charging infrastructure in place, they can still experiment in setting it up however they want.
There are two plug stand up electrics absolutely! There is also "in series" and "in parallel" battery systems I think in traditional chemical battery composition. Fuel cells are built in a "stack" I believe and have one very big advantage over any other system namely they must have a super-chilled fuel system as part and parcel to the engineering system so that is what I would call similar to the windows operating system giving a "proper boot up" for the vehicle.
No one gave Andre his vehicle inspection form either...nor did the vehicle have any safety features for simply going in reverse. The list of what is totally wrong with this Truck from before you literally have to "turn a key"(?) ... I'd have more than a few questions before entering that Cab anyways.
The configuration they are testing makes sense given that most trucks run in that mode. The front drive axle on a tandem drive truck is only engaged when extra traction is needed. There are also a surprising number of tag axle and lift axle trucks out there. With the tag axle trucks the forward axle is driven, while the rear is just there to help support the weight.
11:00 -ish Battery Modules roll up, drop drained battery packs, raise charged battery packs, roll merrily away! ... so, maybe a co-op kinda setup between drivers and charge'n'drop stations... (edit) still, Interesting stuff!
If it's not the direct future, it's the near future, and the path with the most potential. If you like anything about an EV big rig, that's good, because it will all get better. I think that's the most exciting thing, the potential for advancement. We haven't found the limits of combustion engines, but I think most can agree battery and motor breakthroughs are coming hard and fast.
What about weight of the tractor? Depending on what you are transporting weight is very important. every pound extra the tractor weights is less payload - less $$$ per load
I'd like to see a 1.21gigawatt charger network 😄
If it work for DeLoreans, it should work for semi trucks lol
5:05 I'm glad they're emphasizing the point that these EV semis outperform diesel in every performance metric. So really, this technology is a no-brainer. The energy now needs to be spent on improving energy density/range. Better batteries, HFC, SOFC, etc. are all options, and they're all becoming available sooner than many people realize.
Cost too, gotta be cheaper.
@@foellerd For commercial use, the ROI already skews heavily in favor of EVs much faster than it does for private party purchases. The differences in fuel, maintenance, wear and tear, etc. pay for themselves very quickly when you're driving 100+ miles a day, 5 days a week. $20 of electricity a day versus $60 of diesel a day (a $10,000+ per year difference) is often significant enough before even factoring in the huge disparity in maintenance costs.
Obviously, we still want to see the upfront costs come down (which they will, naturally), but for 10+ year timeframes, there's no doubt that EV semis are already the superior option.
For Local or Regional freight these are a NO BRAINER.. maintenance cost on Diesels are high.. especially with all the EPA crap on the new engines.
They are a NIGHTMARE.. DPF Filters.. EGR, and coolers, and DEF systems.
All very failure prone and expensive to repair.. and they put you out of service, that is the BIG cost.
Short haul and city trucks are especially susceptible to these failures.. they don't get the exhaust hot enough long enough to make the EPA systems work well.
But for long haul stuff.. especially expedited freight.. The charging speed and rang will not matter.. the number of charging locations will be the big issue.
I do not see a way to get the chargers to EVERY truck stop in the country. Freight like this is so random in its route and it timing. A long haul truck will be carrying 300 gallons of Diesel.. Giving a range of 1800-2400 miles. and can be refueled in say 15 min or so. Even at a regular gas station in an emergency.
Maybe you could do diesel powered long haul to designated regional drop zones... and then have EV trucks grab the trailer and take it the last 50-100 miles. But that complicates the logistics a lot.
It will happen.. but its gonna take time and be done in stages.
@@kens97sto171 For long-haul, I wouldn't be surprised to see some effort put into powered trailers. Ultimately, overall weight would still be a factor, but having one or two trailers with their own daisy-chained powertrains and ~400 kWh packs would go a long way... literally. Paired with the right EV semi, it could easily achieve 1,000 miles with a full load.
EVgo and GM are currently partnering with Pilot to add 350 kW, pull-through charging stalls at their locations around the country, but those would really only be used in a pinch. There needs to be dedicated EV semi stops with >1 MW charging at all of these travel centers, too.
@@newscoulomb3705
You're right you're going to need dedicated megawatt EV charging for trucks.
I spent a lot of time traveling all over the country when I was over the road trucker. The scale of accomplishing that is pretty astounding. There are truck stops in every corner of the country in all kinds of odd places. Perhaps you could do those large megawatt chargers at big truck stops on the major routes. But you're going to have to work out the logistics of how to get that last 200 MI into the middle of nowhere. And then figure out how to get back. Solar on top of a semi trailer might give you some additional range. And like you said put batteries in the trailers. You just have to wonder at what point are you just better off continuing to use diesel for the long haul stuff. It's a lot of money and expense for not that much change. About 80% of trucking is regional short Hall by volume. But that 20% involves long distances over terrain that has not much in it. You might be better off living with the 20% burning fossil fuels. Diesels are about 45% efficient, and the energy density of that fuel is pretty astounding. For constant speed down the highway they're also pretty efficient and clean. Maybe some kind of hybrid system would be an option also. Have enough battery for start and stop in the city, but a smaller more efficient diesel engine that runs it constant speed for running down interstates.
Even if we just replace the 80% regional and local freight with EVS it'll make a huge difference in pollution and cost for the shippers and consignees.
8:14 with a vehicle like this using regen on local roads have they/is it measured if the environment cooler because the brakes are not venting heat to the outside air and road service?
Careful Andre, Kase is on your heels driving big rigs. lol While you are doing the good Samaritan routine on vacation, he steals your thunder behind the wheel of semi trucks. 😂 Imagine the "frunk" space on one of these things. 😂 Single cabs will have a built in sleeper in the nose. 🙂 At least this guy is realistic about mentioning the fact the infrastructure is a long ways away from accommodating a commercial trucking scenario. Time is $ and trucks that cost that much sitting on a cable charging is a big problem.
I manage 25 trucks, with 3 types of routes. Some local routes less than 300 miles per day and average 10 stops. Some regional routes that got out back daily 500 miles 1-2 stops per day, and some long haul trucks that are gone for weeks at a time nation-wide. We recently ordered 5 EV trucks from a different manufacturer. I’m excited to try this out, and the best part of this is there is no DEF system with sensors that break constantly. We are also looking at alternatives for the longer haul trucks, but currently it is not feasible to consider them for most applications. The long haul trucks are moving about 22 hours per day. Besides these 5 trucks usually go only 25-40 miles between stops and never leave the metro area. I’m not ready to send one of these 250 miles from the nearest shop and have it break down. I had a standard truck towed 150 miles last month and spent $3500.
Here’s my idea and don’t know why it hasn’t been done. The truck should only have a short range battery. The main large battery should be in the trailer. Trucking companies doing long haul should have a half way point where they can exchange trailers that already been fully charged by the drop off driver for the return leg. This would eliminate the waiting around for a truck to be charged and would only have down time during driver breaks.
You’re welcome electric truck companies!
You want truck drivers to connect HV cables as part of trailer hookup? It's not being done because of safety concerns.
@@Frosstbite23 That’s a load of rubbish! You could have the cables connected to a breaker that wouldn’t supply power until they are secured properly. It’s really not that hard.
@@pk-so1mj beside the safety point, adding weight to trailers reduces cargo capacity, which is the opposite of what our customers want. It's a regional tractor and doesn't need that amount of battery.
@@Frosstbite23 You will notice that I was talking about long haul not regional. If you are removing weight from the truck the max GCM will still be the same as if the batteries were in the truck itself. Who cares if you reduce the max payload of the trailer by a couple of tonnes to reduce the operating cost and move into a greener future. You can’t get something for nothing. Either trucks are going to have a massive battery and reduced trailer weight to not go over gross combination or vice verse so there really isn’t an argument there.
I'd love to see more hybrid focused commercial setups. Kind of like what Edison Motors is doing. A diesel motor running at it's most efficient rpm acting as a generator to create electricity. Best of both worlds.
I think total electric will be best for short haul, but hybrids like you mention will be best for long haul. Those could be built today.
Hyliion has some really good concepts like this, except it is designed to run on natural gas and is working on building out a renewable natural gas network.
Hybrids make no sense at all for long haul driving because the benefit of a hybrid is regenerative braking, which only works in stop and go driving. On the highway, when you're using little or no brakes, there's little or no benefit, you're just adding weight and complexity, which is actually a negative.
@@AkioWasRight Regen would also work on downhill sections, not just stop and go.
@@ColeMarkusen I mean, when applying brakes. That includes stop and go, and controlling downhill speed.
Either way, you're missing the point.
The benefit is minimal, not enough to justify the weight, cost and complexity. For every one mile of downhill braking, there are hundreds of miles of minimal or no braking. With that, there's no point in regenerative braking.
They have to start some place but at least they're working on it. International is doing a great job
and so are the other big truck manufactorer's. Also I viewed your video on the International school
bus which I think is great.
Awesome to see other manufacturers are jumping on board with E-Semi trucks. ❤❤👏👏👏
17:03 I'd love to see International work with GM on this. The Hydrotec Mobile Power Generator (MPG) can be paired with a 150 kW CCS charger. Obviously, the concern is hydrogen, but if these are temporary loans, a full tank should support several dozen fill ups.
No you're not going to see GM Working with Volkswagen
@@robertryan7204 Why not? VW Group has traditionally given a lot of independence to their subsidiaries, and Navistar is a subsidiary of a subsidiary of VW. Besides which, when I say "work with," I don't necessarily mean create a business partnership. I simply mean that they can buy a technology from GM that they can't build in house.
@@newscoulomb3705 Not really going to happen as Scania has it's own Hydrogen set ups in Europe as well as LPG, Natural Gas,Electric Trucks plus a vast range of Diesel engines. Like IVECO ( Fiat owned)has paired with Nikola . Scsnia/ MAN are more interested in International doing EV Scouts and Vans.
@@robertryan7204 Sure, but as far as I know, they don't make a similar product to Hydrotec's MPG. However, I can see what you mean about VAG being too proud to do business with a competing company. It would probably put egg on their face to buy a solution like that from GM.
@@newscoulomb3705 Scania/ MAN seem to be trying to get International to the stage of being a najor player in the US Truck market. Scania would have something like that devrloped or being developed
Not VW Corporate but Scania wants to develop it's own Truck network in North America using the International brand. MAN has it's VW Truck brand in South America
Hi guys, I would like to know what is use to replace the engine brake, like the Jake's brake on regular semis ?? Watching from Jamaica !!
Have you looked into the Hyliion solution for long haul OTR trucking? I'm be interested to see you drive the ERX down in Cedarville Texas
I was thinking the same.
Did they tell you the battery weight? Or the weight of the whole unit?
BYD has had a facility in Lancaster, Ca. for 6 or 8 years producing electric commercial vehicles. I think Tommy deserves a trip to the desert!!
There still rocking the design from the 2000s
Don't get me wrong I love diesels with the rumble and sound, also like me a good manual transmission truck, but hey this is extremely easy. For local routes no need for a long start up, engine maintenance, etc.
Build a catenary network and put a pantograph on the truck.
Great review and I hope this tech moves on to make a more acceptable truckfor more applications. How about the RV/ motor coaches?
There is no way our electrical grid will be able to keep up with supplying the energy required.
Exactly & no one seems to be talking about this massive issue.
I'm sure it's already a thought in the engineers' minds, but solar panels on the roof of the trailers could extend the range and be charging while sitting.
Not really. You might get 7kw worth of panels on a trailer. You wouldn't notice any gain from that. Yes it's been discussed, but the weight penalty negates any gain in SOC.
These truck manufactures need to try there best to incorporate a huge frunk in their trucks. Truckers usually want to carry a lot of extra gear, so if they don't have the room in the cabs, a frunk would be a big selling feature, in my opinion.
Local routes only for this tech. Long distance routes will require swapping batteries. There are large companies working on quick swaps for fleets. Independent will get squeezed. Videos on YT.
Long-distance could use hydrogen fuel cells, with refueling set up at truck stops.
I don’t know if this will happen but I am interested to see if there will be electric 3/4 ton and up trucks. The instant torque could make them great, and they would be perfect for local work like on construction and mine sites. I know it wouldn’t be as popular with regular RV owners and hot shot driving unless they can run 6+ hours on the highway without stopping to charge and quick recharge that current technology can’t really do, also battery technology might not be able to hold that much energy in such a small amount of space but it’s a good idea for the near future
Such a cool concept, I feel like electric large vehicles will have to be local. Long hauls, you're just asking for problems. IMO.
Andre should have a TFL COMMERCIAL for commercial vehicles buses semis and others
I hope we can get something for the near future that can deliver the goods. As for hours of service, charge stations, it's going to be a nightmare for otr drivers, I think I would give up my CDL and get another job. No way I would be stuck three days a week waiting on a charge station while freezing or roasting in the heat just to save enough battery to start getting charged up just to get moving and have to do it all again in a few hours. Also, we're just trading diesel emissions for coal emissions. We're just lying to ourselves if we think that we are going "green". I'm glad I got to drive big rigs in the golden days. R.I.P. trucking industry. Get ready to starve America.
I like this video I would also love to see you guys do lots more videos on the Aptera solar electric car
Really should move into a hybrid model at least or the time being, with really small if any recharging stations that can not only house, but facilitate big rigs and trailers
Where does the one meg charger get it's input from??
Hyliion currently has a hybrid diesel or CNG solution in production, and their ERX fully electric with on-board charging via CNG is due for production in 2023 will be the only immediate viable long-haul solution. Charging infrastructure or Hydrogen infrastructure will take several years to be implemented. You should do a video on Hyliion!
6:30 I think 400 kWh to 500 kWh is just about the sweet spot for these EV semis right now. Depending on load and conditions, that should be at least 300 to 400 miles of real-world range. So they're ideal for regional/short-haul applications.
More like 150-300 miles. Electric Pick ups towing are only getting 100 miles per 100 kWh with GVW under 20k lbs. Still good enough for local deliveries.
@@guyod1 Overall, pickups are less efficient per unit of load than semis when towing. Yes, there can definitely be some times where the EV semi will see significant reduction in efficiency, but most of that will be due to elevation increases, where the EV semi will be recouping a lot of that energy back. I would expect these semis under basic loads to have efficiencies between .75 and 1 mi/kWh. Sure, it could dip lower than that for higher speed freeway travel (probably closer to .5 mi/kWh), but that's sustained 55 to 65 mph driving.
@@newscoulomb3705 tesla semi says 300 miles on 600 kwh battery. Telsa semis drag far better than this international.
@@guyod1 Where did Tesla state this? Can you cite a source? To my knowledge, Tesla has never provided actual battery capacities for their semi. All I've seen them state is that the efficiency will be "less than 2 mi/kWh," so they could be claiming as much as 750 to 1,000 miles on a 500 kWh pack.
Imagine the time and the power demand when fleets of 500+ kWh trucks start charging at the end of the day.
The rear “axle” is all most like a traction motor in a locomotive!
Nice video. How many miles/kwh with a load? Looks like you can do about 500KwH in batteries without incurring a weight penalty compared to a diesel and transmission.
So, how far can a loaded semi go on 500KwH? if it is .25 m/Kw then 125 miles which would only be good for really short stuff. .5 gets 250 miles.
Anybody have an idea?
This one has about 250 mile range depending on use case.
Is that sound speaker or the actuall winding of the motors?
Let me see at in North Dakota in the winter time
Impressive content
For long-haul trucks, wireless charging on the road will solve this. It's similar to wireless phone charging except more powerful with a much longer charging distance. The power is less than wall charging, but it should at least give enough power to maintain speed. Then the battery will have enough power when moving away from the main Interstate that has wireless charging. The wireless charger can also be placed in parking spaces for overnight charging. Just thinking. Anyway, thanks for the many informative videos!
I don't think wireless charging is a practical solution because of cost. Roads cost a lot already and are barely kept up very well.
@@leviduff2740 It's happening already. Qualcomm is now making a Wireless Electric Vehicle Charging (WEVC) system for cars and roads. Get used to having a longer range.
The way I see it the cost of wireless charging systems combined with the fact that it's not a very fast way to charge is going to kill it. However doing something like what they do with street cars in Europe would cost less and be much more capable of quickly charging a truck. Look up the system if you're not familiar with it, they use overhead wires with a arm riding on the wires. It's been in use for decades already.
@@leviduff2740 Yes, wired road charging was done already for decades. Large trucks for example can reach the high-hanging cables and provide more power. Small cars don't require as fast charging. I see a use for wireless and wired charging.
Couldn’t the precedent of multiple diesel tanks translate to having multiple charge ports? There has to be a way to intelligently split batteries so you divide the charge time by the number of ports.
I was thinking the same. We fule on both sides so why not split the charging per battery on both sides
No. It doesn't work that way. The two batteries have to be within basically 1V of each other or VCU detects it as a problem. Charging separately leaves it prone to having the voltages not match.
I understand that. But these battery packs are all a bunch of cells that have to be within a voltage tolerance of each other. I don’t think it would happen overnight; the technology would need to be developed. There is already a handshake between the vehicle’s charging computer and the charger itself. I’m just suggesting the vehicle communicate to two chargers at once and control the flow of both to get that balance. I did imply that it would be a halved charge time with two ports; that was an oversimplification. Most charging curves slow down at the end and in my idea would probably have a slower ending with all that negotiation and balancing. Maybe 2 ports = 65% of the one port time.
@@kevinbusker3634 as long as they target balanced charging it would work fine, but having multiple charge ports will over complicate the system in some respects, especially if it takes longer to charge. I like your thoughts here but I think this would add unnecessary costs
Whenever I see videos like this its always in ideal weather. What about when its 15 below zero or 115 degrees? The stuff batteries do not like. I am sure electric would be good for short distance deliveries in nice weather what about in north dakota in the middle of winter?
So...looking at the cabling, the electric drive motor would appear to be 3-phase AC. Is that correct?
International made a dam good manure spreader in its day but they wouldn’t stand behind them . 🙁
It is Navistar.... I wonder how battery coolant will still from bad gaskets and coolers? 😄
The full weight of the diesel truck helps with the control of a fully loaded trailer. What is the weight difference of the two
Great now what would make it perfect is to remove one battery pack, add a diesel gas tank, a small perhaps 3.0 l diesel to run an electric generator and maybe you can make a long haul truck with good efficiency.
Do the headlights and running lights run off of this same battery or do they run off a alternate battery for emergency situations? If everything runs off of these batteries that seems very unsafe in a breakdown situation.
All electric cars have a separate 12V system (trucks have 24V usually) with a regular AGM/lead acid-battery because components like lights and instruments run at 12/24 V like in any other vehicle. The 400 V (or whatever is used) system trickle charges the 12/24 V just like an alternator would. The 12/24 V system is also required to switch on the 400V system, so a dead 12 V battery in an EV can actually stop you going anywhere even if there is juice in the 400 V.
It seems like they could stick with this single- axle main drive, and add small hub motors, even like those on the Aptera (which are probably about 100hp each), for the other axles for distributed power and lower complexity and awd traction.
Badass ev is like saying you eat healthy bacon, the 2 words don't belong in the same sentence.
This is where EV needs to go soon! Semis are so slow, stinky, loud, and hold all traffic up. This would make driving one another more efficient and easy and Safer. But they need to get the range waaaay the hell up and the recharging a hell of a lot faster before it becomes realistic
it's not usually safe for them to accelerate any quicker and risk load shifting
@@jamesengland7461 I agree to a point. But a little better would be good lol. And also while in motion passing or going up a mountain pass such as Eisenhower in Colorado.
Driving 80,000 plus pound down the road as if it is a passenger vehicle, is homicidal behaviour. Many of today's "professional" drivers seem to be under the impression that it is acceptable. It is a miracle that more wrecks and deaths do not take place than actually occur. Trucks are assigned lower speed limits for good reason.
No more jake breaking !!😢
It's not going to work for a long haul driver or even a regional driver in the winter months. What is road salt going to do to the electric connections? Where are you getting the electricity to charge it. The power grid can't handle AC units in the summer. What happens when you plug in a million trucks at night.
Why aren’t heavy manufacturers using J3068?
🤦🏽♂️😂😂😂 same trucks system used in the 1995
Food for thought. One gallon of diesel equates to 40KWH.
I just went 1127 miles on 188 gallons of diesel at 72,000 pounds gross. Approximately 7250 kWh of energy. That’s an X-15 500 hp and 2050 lb ft torque, 13 manual and a kenworth w900. Doing 75 mph the whole way……
This needs to be a US priority. If they get the trucking industry to go EV, the rest will follow.
If you go 1000+ miles on 1 change I am on board if it goes from 10% to 100% charge in 30 minutes or less.
Actually any EV, large or small ultimately will be far cheaper than any ICE. It's simply a matter of mass production. No ICE vehicle can be built as cheaply as and EV.
In my opinion, the lower maintenance and fewer parts claim of electric semi trucks is being over hyped and has more than a little hyperbole.
You still have all the truck bits a diesel powered truck has. Virtually no change there. So for all the maintenance those bits require is carrying over. You still have that big electric motor, and it’s size still mandate a number of big parts to make it go and stop. While maybe less, it still needs a maintenance and repair plus parts infrastructure behind it. And you’re adding a pot full of electronics, the electronic hardware and wiring components to make it all work. And then there is the battery and it’s charger circuit. That critter has thousands of parts, if not tens of thousands. There is going to be a huge support infrastructure for those as well. And its all very heavy.
A 75 to 300 gallon fuel tank is 2x4 board simple in comparison. The current cost of the electric fuel over diesel fuel is significantly less, but don’t forget, road taxes are soon going to be added to that cost just as they are for diesel fuel. And all that electrical charging infrastructure has a huge capital cost and not an exactly no charge maintenance and operational cost to make it all work.
The support needs for the electric semi is still there. Just the skills, procedures, training and tools needed are going to have a different mix
So if it just takes Heavy loads... trees.. Down hill.. and run back up empty...
Free energy? Ok ... I know that's not happening.,.. but lets say.. Fully loaded down 100 miles, empty back up...
how much regen we talking?
My 2 questions...Taking all of these Fuel Tax Vehicles off the road - who is gonna make up that revenue? Winter time operations?
Let's push the grid to its limits. Rolling blackouts anyone?. I just want a used nissan leaf.
These trucks will never be long haul trucks as long as we live but through cities and stuff they can do it
Aussie long haul driver here
As usual all important stats not given ie tare weight of tractor
Which directly affects max payload and therefore profitability and of course RANGE at max weight! Price?
Life of battery pack? Replacement cost? My 600 hp volvo max loaded with 2 trailers is 65 tonnes and has a range of 2200 km all day every day
Until evs can approach even 50% of these freely available factual figures evs remain a science fiction lovers wet dream for heavy trucking 🤣🤣
I don't know if anyone from industry would read this but especially if you are adding battery packs to increase range then why not just add more charging ports? It looked like the truck in this video had two packs 250-300 kwh each or something like it so would it not make seance to increase the charging speed as well as reducing component stress by having an option to plug in each pack to its own charger? I could Imagen truck stops having pull through charging spots with 2 4 or 6 cheaper slandered chargers 1 2 or 3 on each side of the truck to me it would be the most logical way to go .
Id be duranged but 6wd would be awsome
Using a fuel cell as a generator to charge the battery for long distance routes is the right move.
Imo, they should also look into using diesel or natural gas generators for today's use, to increase range. Yes, they will get flack for it, but it's actually more efficient to use fossil fuels as a generator for electricity to powered a vehicle, than using the conventional ICE method.
Strange how that works lol.
But does it pull 102,000 pounds and run for a 15 hour day. Pulling through mud, gravel and pavement? Around 800 km per day that’s a local worker where I am anyway. Or do I still need to buy 2 trucks to do one trucks work?
what was the range?
How long to charge?
Enjoyed the video except...so many questions. On the one hand the rep kept stressing that this was a concept, not production vehicle, but on the other, he talked about the customers the are working with and what chargers they use? What vehicles do they use? How many miles per day are those vehicles driving? What's the current range on these in production vehicles? What's the current range on the featured vehicle in this video? What's the goal range? I don't know, I'm torn, I like to see this kind of content, BUT, if a company isn't ready to talk about ranges actual and goals, I don't know if they are ready for marketing their product through shows like these?