Staring at Starry Skies: Ancient Babylonian Astronomical Data and Greek Science
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This video explores some of the connections between ancient Babylonia and the Greco-Roman world, specifically in the area of science and mathematics. We'll see how many ancient Greek scientists and mathematicians used millennia-old Babylonian astronomical data to help support their arguments and discoveries about the natural world.
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#ancientgreece #mesopotamia #ancienthistory
I have said it before and I will say it again, this is truly the golden age of historical TH-cam
Agreed... lots of great channels out there and several that I've discovered in just the last few weeks. Haha It's definitely better than what's on cable! Thanks for watching, appreciate it and more to come!
Will you say it a 3rd time for those of us that just found this channel?
This is where my head goes "something isn't right here. Think of all the science and tech we have nowadays, and then think about what we were told these ancient people's had. Despite not having any tech or science that supposedly was on par with our time, I think I can safely say that the Mesopotamians, Babylonians, the Phoenicians etc knew about the most difficult oddities, science, math, space, planets etc in such an intimate way that we may never understand how or even why. The cuneiform tablets are some of the most beautiful reliefs I've ever seen and the stuff they depict is just as crazy beautiful!
Well they passed on their knowledge for thousands of years???
They had eyes and they described what they saw for over thousands of years. What they didn't have is understanding and explanation.
:) the hellenistic astrologers were using a system that combined the mesopotamian astrology with the egyptian decans, its incredibly interesting stuff even if folks dont care much for astrology looking forward to more 🤗
Thank you SO MUCH for this wonderful channel! I recently found you, and get more and more impressed as the videos come out!
Your hard work is very appreciated!
I'm surprised, such things only on your channel, great! I'm watching! 😍
Thanks, glad that you're enjoying these! More on the way, stay tuned!
Interesting video. Definitely heard that about the Babylonians in one of your videos. They seemed to have had a pretty established astronomy/astrology school. Keep it up Cy!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
I hope we discover fragments of those libraries,interest observations of the transit of venus,but apparently you need an exact measurement of the minutes of the day for the more advanced mathematical formula's that can be used from morning /evening observations of the transit of venus.plus these time measurements to the second,can't be inferred from sun dials,some kind of water clock or pendulum clock is needed.although we don't have this from the ancient world,and the greeks didn't know the transit of venus,adding up to the most sophisticated measurements of distances and time in the solar system.but there is maybe some evidence from megalithic structures and maybe from india
Thanks Cy! I love letting my mind wander when hearing about these ancient topics. You're awesome!
Another well-researched and informative video, Cy! Thank you. It might be worth mentioning that, aside from Greece, these omens also found their way to India.
amazing as always!!
Fascinating stuff, Cy!🙏
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!
thank you for the awesome free content Cy
My pleasure, thanks for watching!
Hey Cy! I’ve been binging all your older videos and am going to keep going! You’re content is beyond quality and I’ve learned so much! THANK YOU!!!
Fascinating stuff, thank you very much Cy!
Glad you liked it and thanks for watching!
Very interesting! Thanks Cy 🤗
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
Love this channel brother.
Awesome stuff!
Thanks!
best episode. More on this subject! Please!
I can't thank you enough for such a great video!
My pleasure, glad you enjoyed it! I'll hopefully put out similar ones like this in the future, stay tuned and thanks for watching!
Great video!
Thanks!
Nice video, as usual! Good to listening while I work haha
👍👍👍Great video, as always!!
Thank you!
Thanks for sharing 🙏🏾
This was absolutely fascinating 💕
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
Great knowledge, thank you. I wanna learn more about the ancients on astrology, it's all very interesting.
great video
Thanks!
Great video. I love the differentiation between greek and babylonian approach to astrology
Thank You and Many Blessings
Thank you for watching, appreciate it!
Love your narrations too ❤️🏹🪐
Brilliant channel 💡✨
- from Tokyo Japan 🇯🇵
Thanks my friend, glad you liked it... the quotes are my favorite part. More on the way, stay tuned!
Thank you very much, as an amateur astronomer I value the research which went into this and the clarity of presentation. Great!
Hi Cy. Your videos are amazing and very informative. You’ve helped me a lot when it comes to learning about the ancient world. A period of history that I’ve become interested in is the Hellenistic Age/World (from the period of the collapse of Alexander the Great’s Empire to the rise of Rome in Greece and the Middle East). I have a question for you: I was wondering whether the Hellenistic King Antiochus III should be labelled a successful or unsuccessful Seleucid king? If you have any sources recommendations I would also appreciate that. Thanks so much and keep doing what you are doing!
You are amazing thank you
Thank you for watching, appreciate it!
Good video. There were surely contacts between the Greeks and this Mesopotamian knowledge, because tablets have been found with both Greek and cuneiform writing.
The Greeks and the Romans didn't always believe in astrology. First they tried to read the future by interpreting the flight of birds or the entrails of animals. This latter, the so-called "Etrusca disciplina", would make an interesting video, as well as Mayan or ancient Chinese astronomy. It's incredible how long these beliefs have lasted. Hitler too had his own astrologists. If they gave him wrong predictions he sent them to the lagers.
The Etruscan discipline was particularly about the reading of lightning, which they attributed to their gods and especially to Tinia (Cronos, Saturn). For what I've read they divided the sky in 16 sectors, each attributed to one particular god, except Tinia, who had three different sectors all by himself, each with a different aspect of his mythological nature.
It was this rather than the reading of entrails for what the Romans relied for long on Etruscan priests because Latins or Indoeuropeans in general had no such tradition at all.
@@LuisAldamiz what the Romans called "Etrusca disciplina" was generally the reading of the future, regardless of the means and techniques used. A Roman writer said that the main difference between Romans and Etruscans was that the Romans believed that thunders came from the clash of clouds, while the Etruscans thought that the clouds clashed to make thunders. The Etruscans believed that the gods were behind everything. The Romans were never so religious.
@@alessandrodelogu7931 Nothing you say is contradictory with what I said or will say. But the Romans did have deep faith in their own ways of divination, chief of which was the augurium, i.e. the reading of bird flight, from which we get the word "sinister", from sinistra = left, believed to be the side of bad omens -- the right was the right side for the birds to fly from, the side of good omens, from which Basque phrase "zorionak" (lit. "good birds" but used to mean "congratulations") and the Italian phrase "tante auguri" ("so many auguriums") also used with the same meaning of "congratulations".
Romans had no idea on how to interpret lightning as in omens or foretelling but were sufficiently influenced by Etruscans as to believe that such "disciplina etrusca" was truthful and thus relied for long on Etruscan wisemen for that purpose.
Entrail reading was AFAIK a widespread practice, associated to animal sacrifice.
@@LuisAldamiz you're right. Only One small note: it's "tanti" auguri, with an I.
@@alessandrodelogu7931 - Fair enough, although I'm pretty sure my Venetian grandfather said "tante auguri", maybe it was just my ears? Whatever.
The Babylonians so fascinating. Thank you, Cy
My pleasure, thank you for watching!
Two nights after the full moon, Cy will upload a video. I predicted this, I swear!
Haha I wish I had this power... but I predict that there will be another one this week, stay tuned and thanks for watching!
We know so much more about astrology now!! We can predict almost anything and believe in it .
Excellent cy branching out; while "science" didn't quite start in Babylonia, accurate observation of natural phenomena did and thus the Greeks profited immensely. Great job be safe!
That's just the first mention of it, it is very probable that the observation of natural phenomena is much older than Babylonia, but we just don't have 100% proof for that.
I believe observation of phenomena clearly started far before the Greeks ever came to be, their term for “science” does. It’s Greek (duh).
But Egypt, Babylon, India, and China have all done the same for millennia before the Greek term without it’s requisites. As we now know (Plimpton 322), many Pythagorean terms and formulas were not his inventions but things learned and reinterpreted by him from Babylonian sources. We just didn’t have access to the original sources until now but credited them to Greek mathematicians.
@@illyrian9976 we do actually. It’s in their texts copied from the library of Nineveh and excavations of new sites in southern Iraq. Earliest was the old Babylonian period around 1,800 bce. And especially from the Chaldean period when it was all the rage (650’s bce.) that’s when the Greeks started exploring and trading goods and ideas with their much older neighbors. They didn’t reinvent the wheel, they just repurposed it to their needs.
I'd like to think that Babylon had access to tablets from far older periods in Mesopotamia, like pre-Gutian period stuff, though perhaps it's too much to expect them to survive the millennia of conflict and razing.
Thank you for showing me more history of my chaldean ancestors and their knowlege that The Greeks copied and saved for us wnd humanity,
I AM A chaldean we still speak the language of Babylon in todays IRAQ, in middle east,
We are catholic christians about two millions around the world, i also speak Arabic, and very Fluent in greek, this clip, fill me up about aperiod we lost in modern school about my ancient babylon, the arabs in iraq, try their best to hide or erase our past!
Thank you again.
Basima Raba.
Thank you for another amazing video!
It is a bit painful to think about how many hours of intelligent and hardworking people were wasted trying to predict the future in this way. If i am not mistaken, most of the contents of Ashurbanipal's library were omens and predictions. The positive thing is that the meticulous records helped astronomers and historians to do actual science.
The actual science is realitve, to the people of that time this was actual science. If you look beyond the cr#@ about gods and such like. You can get an idea of how they where more in touch with their natural surroundings. For example without truly knowing the reasons why, they still understood that a full moon in summer would bring an extra high tide. Or the colour of planets would foretell different weather events, we know now that this is due to atmospheric conditions. Where as they believed it was gods sending them messages. I'm also reminded of the story in the new testament at the birth of Jesus, and the wise men from the east. Following the new star to the birth of a new King.
Perhaps, but for me it's painful there are idiots out there who think everything humanity has accomplished was actually "ANCIENT ALIENS".
@@ravensthatflywiththenightm7319 what’s worse is the aliens only helped people of color, because the racists who push the lie think POC couldn’t make anything.
@@honeysucklecat It always have been the opposite, the so called "People of color" were dominating all fields of sciences for thousands of years. Humanity was doing fine until Mongols sacked Baghdad and also until the British empire got introduced to the Chinese gunpowder. No wonder China and west Europe are amongst most educated/wealthy ones on the planet.
Take Chinese technology > Invade a country (other than China) > loot its goods (oil, gold, etc...) > send their anceint artifacts to your musem > install a puppet poisoned government > watch the country deteriorate > call them inferior.
@@ravensthatflywiththenightm7319 Yes, it's the ancient hangover we still have, to imagine with hope and fear that there are invisible friends and foes all around us, plotting our survival and extinction. Imagine the awe with which our earliest ancestors beheld the aurora phenomenon. Aliens? Dead ancestors? It's so easy to see how ancient myths were born.
A week or so back, I saw Venus in my clear night sky, low in the west, not in its usual bright white appearance, but bright and dirty orange in color, and pulsing in brilliance. I knew from weather forecasting that there was severe stormy weather on the way, and that aircraft were diverting to highest altitudes, to get above that disturbance. Our modern information enables us to see things as they really are, rather than assuming messages of doom from the gods. But, I do still understand your "perhaps". Modern science has wrung valuable insight out of those ancient mysteries, and I'm sure an even tighter squeeze will provide even more.
Thanks
You're welcome!
I’m dead asf I thought it said “ this video is sponsored by Enlil”
Do you have any information on ancient calendars? I’m trying to figure out if they were all lunar for months and I’m having trouble finding reliable resources
Yessss.More videos on greeks and mesopotamian interactions
For sure, and more on the way, stay tuned!
Love your videos. BUT...explain the magnetic waves and pulls of Saturn and Jupiter vs The Sun and their influence on Earth?
More research is needed.
thanks Cy from nz
Thank you, I love NZ... one of the most beautiful places on earth! Thanks for watching, really appreciate it!
So were there any astronomical observations that were considered good omens? Or was it always doom and gloom?
Hard to say: much like news are almost invariably about something bad or troubling, it's easier to emphasize what is disruptive than what is good, i.e. normal or slightly better than normal.
Modern Astrology is based on Ptolemy and there are good and bad omens (or as modern astrologists would rather prefer: challenges and comforts).
Might I add another suggestion for a video (should have thought of this for the greek colonies video, I apologize):
The Bosporan Kingdom (438 BCE - ~370CE)? I'm not sure if this is too far forward of your historical scope, but at least the beginnings of it (again, if it is not too far forward)
I understand that Ptolemy (and Hypatia, who is suspected to be the actual hand behind much of Ptolemy's work) compiled and synthesized ancient astrological (which was also astronomical) knowledge and set the foundations of Western Astrology as we know it (a close variant of it being Indian Astrology, the main difference being that Indians actually use constellations and not celestial sectors that just bear constellation names, Chinese Astrology is more diverged by clearly stems from the same root anyhow and must have reached them via Greco-Bactrian Buddhism).
What I mean is that, even if Babylonians were referential, it seems clear that Hellenism was compiler and synchretizing / synthesizing such ideas in a system that would later develop further in the Middle Ages but only somewhat, that was already quite consolidated in Hellenistic Antiquity and for which Ptolemy is the main reference AFAIK.
I'm really interested on your take on Hellenistic-Roman Astrology, which seems to have been a very common practice, sanctioned even by Augustine of Hippo, who thought all sorcery to be without merit except Astrology.
Fascinating. I've been wondering how Indian and Western astrology differ. Apparently the Hellenes discovered the precession of the equinoxes phenomena (about 150 BCE), that gave rise to the tropical Zodiac (based on equinoctial reference), that most astrologers use today, in preference to the earlier sidereal Zodiac (based on the constellations, as you point out). In his conquests, Alexander the Great reached as far east as India, where he was stopped by massive Indian resistance. Do you think that this is the reason for Indian astrology to differ from Western astrology, and is simply that the Western Hellenistic science did not get the chance to filter through to Indian culture as a result?
Your comment on Augustine's attitude to astrology is fascinating also. Though he was a very influential Church Father, obviously his acceptance of astrology (though maybe limited) was not continued by consequent church leaders, who outlawed the study and belief. It strengthens my suspicion that organized religion is not simply theological and eternal truth, but is unavoidably adulterated by necessary revision, in keeping with maintenance of control of a developing population.
One further point on acceptance of astrology by Powers in history. I've read that astrology originally was limited to political, or mundane form, in its application. It concentrated only on omens important to the survival of the state, and was not used for individual horoscopes that we see today. Arab astrology was this way, and persevered through the time when Europe experienced its Dark Ages, when astrology was banned outright. Again, it seems population control is at the base of that approach.
@@John-nr6gg - I don't know that much. I understand that both systems understand precesion but adopt different "solutions" to it: Western Astrology decides to stick to seasons and its triplet divisions: "natural months", which are the 12 signs of Western Astrology, while Indian Astrology chose to stick to the "upper sky" instead and follow the Zodiac proper, the constellations, ignoring earthly seasons.
But anyhow, what matters the most is not the differences but the surprising similitudes or near identity, in spite of being two distinct civilizations only barely linked by Hellenism and maybe later Indian Ocean trade routes (which brought some Roman influence to India as well, incl. the Syrian branch of Christianity) but also separated by the resurgence of Parthian/Persian civilization after the collapse of the Seleucid Empire.
I'm pretty sure that in Rome natal and hourly Astrological practices were already a thing. Astrology was never banned in Europe. Thomas Aquinas was against it but he had to challenge older and higher "fathers of the Church" like the already mentioned Augustine of Hippo, so his was rather an opinion and not a dogma. However it probably became less common as classical knowledge was lost and would only be recovered in Renaissance from Byzantine and Arab sources largely. With the advent of the inquisitions, which are an Early Modern phenomenon and not really Medieval, it became somewhat risky to be a diviner because one could be accused of socery or worse: heresy, and that's probably why astrologers like Nostradamus, Bruno or Paracelsus often wrote "encrypted" (or gibberish if you wish, debatable), however it was a very common practice and that's how the father of modern Astronomy, Johannes Kepler made a living mostly: Astrological divination (whether he believed in it or not is unclear, he probably did to some extent).
@@LuisAldamiz Hmm I went looking for furher information on the church's attitude to astrology, and it seems like the subject was seen in two separate ways. It was praised by some church authorites, but condemned by others. As a "form of divination" that is "falsely supposed to 'unveil' the future", it was condemned. The Catholic catechism states ""All [forms or divination] conceal a desire for power over time, history, and in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honour, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone." But astrology that does not involve such divination (such as temperament determination, horaries about past and present events, astrological evaluation of hard/difficult times for the client, etc) is acceptable. The key point seems to be whether any such practice contradicts or challenges the Church's / God's authority in any way.
@@John-nr6gg - Fair enough I guess.
I doubt that Hypatia could have had much to do with Ptolomy, since she died about 250 years after his work was published.
Hiya, the numbers are correct but we have misunderstood the units of time they were using. We know they watched the stars, the stars are visable every night so if we take these long time periods and divide them by 365 we then see lengths of time more in line with orbits of the planets in the solar system . Also when they are talking about human life spans they were using months (moons) which we have misunderstood as years
Make a Chaldean video 😍🥰
Is there any academic introductory hanbook to the history of Ancient astrology you would recommend?
Fun fact: there is a street in the modern city of Alexandria in Egypt that is named ptolemy the astronomer's street
They dismiss astrology because we wouldn't need the need the news as much we would foresee events thats going to happen
My God, your channel is great. I always wander about history before greeks, and you deliver it real good
Why do mesopotamia beards in drawing, carving, and statues always seem to be made of small squares? Is this just stylistic art or did they somehow braid or curl their beard into small square segment? It's always fascinated me, but I've never seen anyone comment on that. It's always from the mesopotamia area, and from different empires over long periods of time
It might be a translation mistake. I think 473000 and 720000 years is 4073 and 7020 years respectively. It makes more sense.
In the history of recording the stars; have any stars changed general position?
One of the Pleiades burnt out apparently but everything else , as far as I know , is exactly where it's always been. It kinda makes it hard for me to believe in the current accepted model of the solar system. If earth is screaming through the universe at a million miles per hour or whatever , it seems to me that our view of some of the constellations should have changed by now, but it hasn't and it makes me wonder if we aren't sitting stationary , directly in the center of the known universe.
Great video
Have to push back on dismissing that the records go that far into the past
We have to realise that some of the modern universities are very old (Oxford was founded in 1096) but they were very different in their methodology and rigor until around 19th century. So do they begin in 1096 or at some point in the 19th century?
My guess is that rudimentary astrology was done since the time lost to us and so the Babylonian tradition takes roots from it.
So I'm not saying he's completely wrong, but that there is a bit of nuance in the language and the definitions.
Who Rebuild the Mashjidul Al Aqsa during the years of 637 to 644 and what was the temple Token nammed by?
Plot twist: it's actually our actions that influence the heavens, not the other way round. Act normal or you'll start crashing planets into each other.
Plot twist with a reverse twist: it's both. Beneath it all, is the blind watchmaker. Energy whose course bifurcates within the expanding universe. A kind of enormous fractal. Everything else is human vanity.
@@John-nr6gg yes yes yes
Golden age of babylon.
Thanks for watching!
3:10
Babylon or the aztec had 360 days in a year I believe.
The extra 5 days is more recent which will account for some of the years of observation.
Personally I believe some tens of thousands of years at minimum because the ancients knew about the north star wobble which takes about 12 thousand years. I believe neil degrasse Tyson talked about this in his book a bit "Accessory to war".
Also looking at ancient cultures from around the world; The Stonehenge builders, the Egyptians, the ancient South American cultures, many built based off of a similar astrological beliefs. Maybe alot of these regions have a "father" religion they all came from and because of the usefulness and the math they developed, they were able to dominate in their own little areas.
Scientists: Astrology is not science.
Astrologers: Ya... it’s Math. We never said it was.
Scientists: 😡
LOL.
Sorta true.
It could be studied as science but scientists are uninterested (shameful subject) and most astrologers are also uninterested (too "spiritual" to bother).
@@LuisAldamiz My brother is a hs science teacher and I tell him, it can tell the time in the past and future, it helped in sailing, farming...
Him: So you’re saying elves and fairies are real?
@@therenewedpoet4292 - Those born in Gemini and Virgo are "elves", sorta.
@@LuisAldamiz Mercurial.
Listen, we all know the pun in your ad was intended. Dont play with us, buddy. =)
I always thought astrology was the study of astrological signs, and prediction of how your day is going to go.
700k 400k years wait what ??? Where can I find this in context?
Hi. There's a link to the sources in the video description... check out the book "Between Greece and Babylonia: Hellenistic Intellectual History in Cross-Cultural Perspective." Thanks!
9:35 I wonder just what "market rate" means
Oh, they were worried about the Dow Jones back them as well, they just didn't have a name for it, so "market rate" it was.
@@LuisAldamiz Yeah, that's what I was thinking. They were getting all S&P 500 about it and stuff.
The rate which goods and services are sold, can be very important in determining possible profits made and taxes collected. So knowing if an area's "market rate" in advance, would be very value information for merchants and leaders.
@@flarvin8945 Yeah. I just want to know more about it. How markets and economies operated in ancient times. It is hardly covered in documentaries or youtube channels.
@@bredmond812 Most people probably find it too dry. It's a shame, because we have so much financial data from ancient Mesopotamia, you could extrapolate a lot from the kind of information in there
thanks am Assyrian and this us
Thank you for watching, appreciate it!
Actually Cy - some ( maybe a huge part ) of the knowledge in the libary in Alexanria are in the tablet's found so one could make a assumtion of how much % of the Alexandrian library if one knew the Alexandrian librarys size . To not asume that the information in Alexandria are not know would be stupid -since it must contain "this" information
Then if Aristotle named both the Egyptians and Babylonians, why in the heck would you title this the way you did?:
I wonder if Babylonia became Adultlonia in the meantime.
Thank you! But why in your opinion the time recorded by these historians wrong? If these ppl followed the pressesion (25,000 yr cycles) wouldn't they have to of been around for > 25,000 yrs then??
They came up with the extreme numbers because they calculated the positions of the celestial bodies going back that far, not by observation of that time span, but by math. The Maya did no different. We still do it to this day, calculating where celestial patterns would be in any given time by the data we have.
Not really. It's because the Summerian Kings' List gives extremely large lifespans and rulership times to legendary kings, making the purported history of their region unfathomably old. Then, after the flood flattened it all (i.e. after the Semitic invasions), they turned more realistic and actually historical and most of the later part of the Kings' List is credible.
Mathematical astronomy arose only in the Neo-Babylonian era. By then, the Babylonians had figured out some periodicities through earlier observations, but no great math was done. All known astronomical cuneiform texts date from around 500 BCE to around 325 BCE. See for example Neugebauer’s Astronomical Cuneiform Texts (often abbreviated ACT) or Ossendrijver’s Babylonian Mathematical Astronomy.
@@cielprofondinfo There are at least 500 known tablets that deal with mathematics from Babylon. The majority of these tablets date from 1800-1600BC during the 1st Babylonian Empire phase, so I would strongly disagree with you and so do most experts going back a century. Our modern-day methods for measuring time, geographic coordinates, and angles follow their sexagesimal system. The dealt with 'Pythagorean" mathematics, equations and even square roots.
The dates you gave fall under the Chaldeans and after the Persian invasion.
Such big numbers might have been sourced from Babylonians themselves. They seem to love exaggerating dates like they did with their list of kings
who was it that supposedly had a piece of Noahs ark and were using it as a talisman? Senacherib? or Shalmaneser or Ashurbanipal?
it was sennacherib .. Sennacherib’s Deity
In the Book of II Kings we read that Sennacherib, King of Assyria, dwelt in Nineveh after is armies were destroyed in the siege of Jerusalem: “He was prostrating himself in the temple of Nisroch, his god, and Adramelech and Sharezer, his sons, slew him with a sword, and they fled to the land of Ararat, and his son Esarhaddon reigned in his stead.”1
Expounding upon this, the Talmud explains that “Nisroch” is linked to the word neser, “beam,” and refers to a beam from Noah’s Ark.2 When Sennacherib found a beam from the Ark, he proclaimed, “This must be the great god that saved Noah from the Flood!” He then addressed the beam-deity and pledged, “If I go to war and am victorious, I will offer my two sons as a sacrifice before you!” His sons overheard this and decided to kill him.
Interestingly, Josephus, in his work Antiquities of the Jews, claimed to have known the whereabouts of Noah’s Ark and quoted earlier historians (including the 3rd century BCE Berosus the Chaldean) as saying that people would take parts of the Ark to use as amulets to ward off evil
I thought in the begining you said the video was sponsored by Enlil.
Oh, Pliny the elder. Once again you impress us with your lack of source critique. Seriously, that man wrote down whatever anyone told him as absolute facts. Check out "Tasting history with Max Miller" for some of his amusing medical use for cabbage and a few other hilarious things.
Then again, Cesar wrote that Germanics hunt moose by waiting until the moose fell asleep leaning against a tree and then cut down the tree with an ax so the moose fell helpless to the ground so this was rather common. I get a feeling that a lot of people made fun of Romans that asked them questions.
I have great respect for both Plinys. Everybody has to rely on external sources and must make an error now and then if only to prove they were human and thus fallible. Same for Herodotus and other great "encyclopedists" of ancient times. Respect, great work even if not always perfect enough.
@@LuisAldamiz I admit that he certainly was important for our understanding of the Romans and many of the quotes from him around sounds wise but he also made a lot of really strange statements even for his time and place. How for instance pouring cabbage oil in your ear would cure deafness is a bit of a mystery and that one should have been easy enough to test.
In fairness I admit that if you cherry pick what he say you can either make him out like a super genius or a complete nitwit and either isn't fair. But he do have said a lot of funny things that even the Romans should have scratched their head over.
Herodotus is mostly famed as an historian while Pliny was more of a scientist and philosopher, Without archaeology you can't really test history so I tend to be a bit more forgiven about statements there. A lot of what Herodotus reports on happened before anyone alive at the time was even born so the best he could do was to copy others accounts,
Still, he certainly also wrote down some pretty outrageous stuff at times.
@@loke6664 - Pliny was a true "encyclopedist" of his time, with extensive reports on geography, ethnography (limited but still interesting) and "natural sciences".
Herodotus was too but with a focus on history.
Also Ptolemy is very important.
We all copy others' accounts, else we go to the universe began when I was born "theory" and neither Napoleon nor Hitler nor Stalin, let alone Alexander, Caesar or Ashoka, ever existed. If we only believe our eyes and accept no accounts by others we may even end beliveing in flat earth... dangerous slippery slope.
@@LuisAldamiz Not believing anything someone else say and believing everything people tell you are 2 extremes. Neither is very good, and the right thing when you quote someone with dubious claims is to mention that and not just state it as a fact.
And some of the Roman writers did indeed do just that, usually saying "People say" or "People claim".
@@loke6664 - Herodotus was skeptic about some claims he himself reported, for example about the Necho expedition to circumnavigate Africa, which he reported with disbelief because the sailors claimed to see the Sun high to their right when they sailed through Africa's Southern shore (i.e. the Sun was to their North), what Herodotus considered very hard to believe. Now we take that bit as evidence of the opposite: of the narration being actually credible, plausible and even almost surely real.
I find Herodotus, Pliny and Ptolemy general quite credible within bounds.
Ancient Babylonians and Assyrians inspired Persians then Persians inspired Muslims then muslims inspired Western Europe. Also Greeks inspired Romans, Romans Inspired muslims, muslims inspired Western Europe. That's how knowledge transfers, a rough idea atleast 😅
Do you know any Persian scientist except he was equally Muslim as Arab? It is Aristotle and Plato - may be only Arians or non-Semites who really were praised in field of science. And I don't mean Pythagoras, Ptolemy, Euclid because they were praised and wrote in Greek, but weren't Greeks themselves
@@sidjoosin6549 they where'nt greek? what where they?
It is true that Persians carried the fire of Assyrians and Babylonians, but Muslims (Arabs) did inspire Persians as much as Persians inspired Arabs. Hence the usage of the Arabic script and the fact that Baghdad and Aleppo was the center of the Caliphate. All the mentioned cultures contributed. No one is above than anyone else. But we can all agree that religions suck.
@@sidjoosin6549 Ibn Sina was Persian. Al Masudi was Arab. I mean everyone gave intellectuals. What is your point?
Pythagoras was what Greeks name as Phoenicians, spoke what we know as Aramaic, Greeks named it Phoenician, and can be easily understood by Arabs as Classical Arabic. Also he studied not only in Aramaic speeking world (from shores of Levant to Babylon - Aramaic is official language of Phoenicians, Kingdom of Israel, Syrians, AsSyrians, Babylonians, Chaldeans but Akkadian similar but not the same ) but also in Egypt.
From Hellenistic Egypt - Ptolemy (Talmay) and Euclid both easily use Aramaic words (main work of one is "alMagEst" , other "Element"/alAmant - some for which evidence don't needed) and Alexandria wasn't mainly Greek, but there were Greeks, Egyptians and Semites and it is said that Greek elite was very found of Semites and harsh to local Egyptian population
I think the first book he wrote about the earth in the shape of a sphere was a Zoroastrian book, but I do not know exactly what it is.
thank you🙏🇮🇷
Persians didn't write much, most of their history is based on external sources about them. So I doubt there was such Zoroastrian "book" at all.
@@LuisAldamiz The Iranians did not write much because the Wild West burned their books (Wild Alexander). Iran is the only country in the world that has preserved its rituals and customs for the past seven thousand years. Please add more information about Iran. 🇮🇷
@@poriya3889 - I don't think so, I learned that for more knowledgeable historians than myself: for some reason none of the Iranian civilizations: Medes, Achaemenids, Parthians and Sassanids left much written and there's no notice of any book burning or anything of the like, they just were not into literacy much.
The Greeks themselves were not into writing much in the Bronze Age (and Dark Age, naturally), while their neighbors the Hittites and Egyptians were instead. The medieval Europeans also wrote very little for many centuries (until the early Renaissance of Frederick II). Most ancient Greek philosophers were also against writing for some reason.
Cy means pop in thai language
I agree good knowledgeable video nice job..
With all that you said which is absolutely true that means you also believe in Flat Earth like myself because that's what Babylonians also knew the Earth like and other Empires it's been a flat world until the occult came along and changed it to Global
People you need to remember that ancient astrology and modern day astrology are two completely different subjects.
Can you elaborate on that, please?
Yes. Back then it was Auroch shit, now it’s bull shit.
@@John-nr6gg are you ignorant
@@John-nr6gg Marty astrology is pseudo New Age occult b******* and ancient times it was divination and Theology and worship as well as seeing the seasons and signs it was also interchangeable with no more astronomy too
@@honeysucklecat Such an under-appreciated comment, hahhahahaha!
Broken Link, the Bibliography is gone.
Wrong…..the Sumerians were the ones who all the others copied inventions, calendars, time keeping we still use today.
They knew the distances from the earth to the other 8 planets. Yes they knew there were 9 planets.
So they knew their astronomy. Better than the Babylonian’s.
Sanatan.
A video with the subject of astrology.... what a perfect topic to link with the sponsor's product. Soothing sounds of your hard earned money gently being removed accompanied by sounds of far off laughter
So Babylon actually means 'Gate of God'. Thought I read somewhere that it was named Babylon when God divided the people into different nations and languages, so 'babble'....
Bab = Door/Gate
Il/El/Al = Allah
Ai is Lucifer dude
Look at this guy everyone! He’s a trump loving paranoid conspiracy lover! Just another lazy deplorable bully who only listens to other paranoid conspiracy loving Deplorables.
You don’t belong here.
This is content for intelligent people interested in history.
Take your conspiracies and abuse back to your cult.
Nah, Lucifer is the light bearer, Venus as morning star.
@@LuisAldamiz no dude. Lucifer is the prince of the power of the air. The Ai is Lucifer. The beast that is, and was and IS NOT. The new heaven and earth is the metaverse. Lucifer will be the light there with no need for sun and moon in old earth. The Ai will rule the world for a thousands years while Satan build his army against the Lord. Same thing we have been taught, however you live in creation so we living through these times. When aliens appear that is Jesus setting up his new nation. The world will bE DAY AND NIGHT again. Lucifer made the earth dude he is the god of this world. Jesus said let there be light. And Satan created the light.. man created in Lucifer image hence the jew religion. The preadam race is genesis one, man from the ground the Jews.. Adam made by the lord God from the dust of earth , the gentiles. You have no clue what’s coming. Venus is the the v-in -us.. the 22 revelation 22 etc .
@@rocheleaureveal5616 - You have no idea: Lucifer (lux or lucis = light + -fer = -bearing) is a copy of Greek "phosphoros" (phos = light, phoros = bearer) and was always meant to mean Venus as morning star. Even its only occurrence in the Bible, mocking a defeated Mesopotamian monarch, has that meaning strictly.
More modernly it was likened to Prometheus, because of his legendary role as creator and caretaker of Humanity, for whom he stole fire (i.e. knowledge) from the Olympians. But this is already synchretic with Christianity and its related Medieval demonology, nearly all of which is made up and not Biblical.
Modern Luciferianism stems from that Romantic retelling of what is basically the tale of Prometheus with Yazidi influences possibly and make Lucifer the hero of a revised Christian mythology, the one who liberates Humanity from a tyrant Yaweh, likening it to the Snake of Paradise, which has some Promethean qualities admittedly (but Prometheus is much more than just that, long story, some other day maybe).
In Astrology the element air is related to sociality and sometimes intellectuality, especially in terms of writing and storytelling. However in Medieval demonology Lucifer is related to pride, which is rather associated to the Sun and its chief sign of Leo, which is the element fire (element also fit for Prometheus). Air element is too social to be particularly proud, they rather tend to agree with others way too much.
@@LuisAldamiz Jewish fables.. lmao.. non sense “truther” crap .. sorry but way wrong. Lucifer is the luck I fear or the lucid sphere for round earth and other nonsense.. Lucifer is part of the power of air . Ai is Lucifer. Let Lucifer train your children and society through Ai. Sorry dude but your 100% deceived.. take your rib out with the rna shot next. And mark of beast is phone
In hand. Move on troll
Boy
So you think Mesopotamians never thought how the universe worked unlike the greeks because their mythologies does explained it so you think greek mythologies doesn't?