The GBRS Group shirt for this video is ironic for sure since those guys are Sig ambassadors. I Think Ernest Langdon described the situation very well a couple years back when he said this gun tries to emulate a 1911 trigger very little take up with crispr break), but has no safety. This is a recipe for trouble. Yes I know the M17 and M18 have a manual safetym which I think is very needed on this gun, but 100% of LEOs I have interacted with do not run manual safety model P320s. The fact is that many many LEOs have the bare minimum required for handgun training. Many are not gun enthusiast and do not seek more in deoth training to better themselves.
@@82lowe36id most accurate comment in the thread here. You are spot on about the P320 as well as about cops. I retired with 27 years as a LEO. We qual’ed quarterly, and the course was not difficult. Still, a lot of people had trouble passing….every quarter. My department offered a ton of great training and gave you ammo to train with, but it was up to you to show up to the range. It was always the same group of guys who showed up, and they weren’t the same ones who had trouble during quals.
That was my amateur idea. I've not shot a 320, but dry firing them I found the trigger to be too light, with not much pre travel and so safety dingus. Seems like a recipe for disaster.
@@josh48315 The P365 is a completely different design than the P320. Still, no external safety of any sort, and a light-ish 90 degree trigger. I have not heard of any of the same issues with the P365 though.
There are millions of 320’s in the wild for nearly 10 years. If this was a real, widespread issue then there would be more than a handful of cops and other civilians who were having ND’s lol.
@@Clockwork0nions there’s dozens of them exploding in military service. well documented cases. just sell your gun already and stop being emotionally attached. it sucks. just how it is lol
Our agency T&E’d the 320 with 2.0’s and G45’s a couple years ago. When we reached out to the Sig rep about our concerns with the reports coming out of uncommanded discharges, we were assured the problem was user error and agencies using wrong holsters. He offered us free armorer courses and vouchers to their training facility in NH Damage was already done. Our brass and attorneys were already scared off by the liability. We went with the 2.0’s and never looked back.
The comment from the sig fanboy about, it's because so many cops carry the 320 every day is the reason for the issues. Really? I am no Glock fan, but how many hundred thousand cops carry a Glock every day (for 35+ years) and you seldom hear of any issues? Especially not discharging in the holster without human error. But you hear about a sig 320 issues every couple months! Even before now, many LE agencies that switched from Glock to the 320's are switching back to Glocks.
Funny you must be 12 ..cause cops where shooting themselves while field stopping blocks all through the 80s and I heard the same things ..all guns shot bullets
I retired from Arlington PD where we issued Glocks for 30 years, we had no issues like this SIG issue. Cops can be the worst gun owner/carriers but we kept the ND/ADs to a minimum and none ever fired in the holster.......fwiw
If a cop has an ND with a Glock, it isn't an option to blame the Glock, due to how it's perceived. Not the same with the Sig. Cops feel like they can get away with blaming the gun. (I don't own a 320, so not saying this as a sigger)
I can see why they would not want to use a gun with a “sketchy” track record with problems. Why risk it when there are better options. My local police department stopped using the 320 as their issue gun. They were looking hard at the PDP. But ultimately, I was told through some inside baseball that they went back to Glock simply because they could get them cheaper even though the PDP was preferred. Some of the officers that were 320 fanboys that touted Sig as “the military’s choice” were upset they went back to Glock simply because they were cheaper. Well, how in the hell do they think Sig got the military contract? Undercutting. At least Glock has a better track record than the 320.
The fact that none of these have been able to be replicated leaves me to believe that there are good guns and bad guns in the production line with no way to tell if yours is good or bad. Assuming that every single one of these cases isn’t just an ND that the PDs are lying about
Thought this was gonna be a typical sigger comment putting all the blame on cops, but yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if this was really the case. Shoddy manufacturing that affects some, but not all guns, sounds like typocal Sig SOP to me.
I've always thought my 365xl was meh, and my mpx had 2 failure to eject out of 100 rounds last time I took it to the range. The mpx needed to be lubed, but it wasn't dry, and shouldn't have had any issues. I bought the mpx because it was supposed to be super reliable. 115 grain fmj brass casing from blazer. I bought a cz shadow 2 compact and love it. I'm thinking about trading the 365xl for a similar size CZ.
The crazier thing to me is the Sigger cope of saying "well they're cops and they're not the best trained!" like yeah but cops didn't start carrying handguns with the P320. Why has this not been an issue with Glocks after Gen 1 (that there was a full recall and refund and free upgrade to Gen 2 30 years ago for all departments issuing them), S&W M&P 1.0 and 2.0, Sig 226, CZ P10 and P07, HK VP9, etc etc? If anything cops are better trained today than they were 20 years ago and we still never heard of crazy NDs inside holsters other than Serpa shenanigans, and that's just a bad design for drawing the gun, guns still didn't just go off in Serpas
I recently saw a better quality video of the P320 that went off in an officer's holster while he was fighting with a guy in the police station. This was the incident that happened a year or so ago. The video showed the gun went off when the holster was hit and the gun twisted in the holster. I believe it was one of Donut Operators recent videos.
Yeah, lots of us have seen it. Maybe not on donut operator's channel but we've still seen it. When I watched it it was a big question if the gun was properly seated all the way into the holster.
@@SAR0311 That was the question everyone was asking. From the video, it did look like the gun might not be seated all the way inside the holster. I have a P320 and a similar safariland holster that the officer in the video was using. I don't see a way that the trigger could have been pressed even if the gun was not completely locked into the holster. Those holsters are just a big hole around the trigger area. They lock from the ejection port so all the moving mechanisms are in the top. There's literally nothing in the holster that could pull the trigger even if the gun wasn't completely inside it. For that to happen, something else would have had to be in the holster with the gun.
@@thepracticalrifleman For most law enforcement agencies, the officers are never truly off duty. They have the same authority whether they are on the clock or off, so if an off duty officer is involved in a shooting, it's still going to be treated as a law enforcement incident. Because of that, the agency can have some say so in what their officers carry on and off duty.
@@thepracticalriflemanan agency can dictate what you carry off duty based on policy. It’s pretty common for LE agencies to have guidelines you have to meet for duty,off duty, and backup carry. While it’s not necessarily against the law to carry a gun you haven’t qualified with and that has been approved by an agency range master/armorer, it opens up a HUGE door for civil liability and possible criminal litigation if you use an unauthorized weapon. Anything can and will be used against you in court. EDIT- Pursuant to HR 218, an agency that issues permits for law enforcement to carry off duty have the authority to set guidelines on what is acceptable. So, I guess it could be illegal depending on your states laws on concealed or open carry. I’m not a lawyer, and this isn’t legal advise. Just FYI.
My first gun was an M&P. I feel like a migratory animal returning home as now I'm swapping my carry Sig for a S&W. I wish Glock would do a manual safety G19.
@@McUsernameFace Welcome back. I think you'll enjoy the M&P. If you haven't tried the 2.0 versions, they are a far cry from the original models which were already pretty good.
I think the biggest problem with the p320 is that it's just a DAO hammer fired gun that they shoved a striker into with as little development as possible instead of trying to make an actual gun.
Part of my job is to do troubleshooting on electrical systems. The easiest problems to troubleshoot are the ones that are reproducible. Problems that are random are WAY harder to troubleshoot, but they're still actual problems and need to be solved. Something like the P320 issue could be due to tolerance stacking in the gun itself or it could be stacking in the ecosystem used to store/carry in duty situations like poorly fitting holsters and the fact that duty P320s can fire out of battery. 40CalNevadaUSA has a good video discussing the issues and what to do to mitigate them.
@@pcnorton Theoretically, yes. I can imagine scenarios where tolerance stacking might need certain conditions to become an issue, for instance - how long was a pistol carried in a loaded condition before an incident occurred? It's likely some LE might carry their weapons and store them loaded for days or weeks (or even months?) without firing a round which could possibly allow parts to shift enough and fail to function as intended if tolerance stacking were in issue in that specific firearm. Based on the reported incidents, it's a rare occurrence. At the same time, according to a report from 2016 that covered UDs in law enforcement from 1992-2016, all the reported UDs happened with the gun drawn during routine tasks, or were due to muscle co-activations, unfamiliar tasks and contact with objects. So the P320s going off in holsters or bags or whatever appear to be a new issue. I also haven't been able to find any examples of similar incidents with any other duty pistols.
Ben, I was the original P320 fanboy. Bought early on and ended up with 3 FCUs and multiple slides and grip modules. I went with Grayguns triggers & spring setups. Went thru the safety update. I defended Sig against the negative news. I eventually grew tired and a little "nervous", sold all P320s 2 years ago. Bought a Stacatto P, great gun and had fun with it, but just recently sold and returned to my Glock roots, I carry a G19, and just bought a G47 same time you did. G47 is a great gun! My best shooting friend who shoots XC and Atlas pistols, watching what I have done, now wishes he had stuck to his G34s! Funny the vicious circles we get into!
Protraband did a good video on Sig's sketchy history of lawsuits surrounding the 320 and issues with its "safety" mechanisms In summary, Sig has been sued multiple times on confirmed accounts of uncommanded discharges with the p320 (post gen 1), but has been able to get these cases dismissed on a technicality. The trigger safety mechanism is still fundamentally flawed and can theoretically fail due to variability in manufacturing tolerances. This is likely why we don't see all 320s detonating in people's pants, but a few every now and then.
Nephews in the Marine Corps, joined at the time when they still had the Beretta, generally everyone had a love-hate relationship with the pistol. When the Sig started getting issued everyone was stoked for a new polymer pistol because it could be tactikewl. After a few months when the Sigs started going down on the firing range because of randomly breaking internal parts or shearing screws so that the optic/sight plate flew back and hit Marines in the face, they were kind over the things. He said later when all the stories started coming out of Cops and Service members getting holes blown in their hands, legs, and balls, people were wishing for the old Berettas.
@@chairmanbrando It's not a conspiracy they were just the cheapest option, they undercut Glock and FN by crazy margins. If the contract was meant to go to the "best" pistol Glock would have won, the majority of US SOF have been running Glocks for a long time for good reason, our government would rather scrape money off the top of these contracts to stuff in the pockets of those at the top of the military industrial complex than provide our soldiers with the best possible kit.
My carry gun is a p320 carry (with a WC grip). To be honest, I made sure the FCU was a post July 2019 model (lots of changes made until July 2019, probably fixing some/most of the problems). I also put on an Agency Arms trigger (with trigger safety), because let's be honest, it only makes sense. I think most of problems of guns going off in holsters (particularly with cops) is that shit can get into safarilands from the side. If you combine that with a lack of trigger safety, you're gonna have more booms. I remember Aaron Cowan, in a video from 500 years ago, talked about taking the bottom plugs out of all of his safarilands because stuff just kept falling in. He mentioned that this was particularly a cop problem. So in short, older FCUs might actually randomly go off (not often, but once is too often) combined with lack of trigger safety, guns with flashlights (which require a wider holster) and shit in holsters probably equals more frequent ADs.
Wait, you mean when you cludge a striker gun out of spare frames and slides you had for your failed DAO good idea fairy pistol, and then MIM parts that should be stamped, it has issues? I am Jack's total lack of surprise.
I think BLEA = Basic Law Enforcement Academy. The Basic Law Enforcement Academy (BLEA) is Washington’s mandated training academy for all city and county entry-level peace officers in the state.
I saw a 320 go off when the shooter was on the line during the make ready at a competition. He racked the slide and it shot. 100% did not touch the trigger he did however say the gun was not stock.
@@cardboard_shaft You sure? Go read about people with aftermarket parts in glocks. No gun is safe from dodgey aftermarket internals. As soon as somebody says something inside was aftermarket, the discussion is very difficult to have around reliability or blaming the manufacturer.
Shouldn't this be something that can be proven through experimentation? Seems like if there was a mechanical issue you could test this and confirm it really easily. Remember the drop safe test? That was easily proven through a simple test and the video went viral.
noooo dont talk sense, we all know its a magical intrinsic quality that sigs have. Much like a soul. We cant prove it but we know its there just believe us!
BLEA is the Basic Law Enforcement Academy. My agency also received the directive. Even officers coming onto the campus aren't allowed to have them there anymore
Whaaa whaaa, i can only afford my one glock and im saving up for a second pistol. Ive watched every youtuber review every pistol made in the last 5 years, but i absolutely will not ever even think about buying a Sig.
We have several agencies in my county that have disallowed / banned the P320 for carry on or off duty. There is a largish size agency (300+) that issues the P320 for almost 7-10 years. There are no reports of uncommanded discharges with the guns from them though. I have one, but am hesitant to carry it.
Sig 320 needs an actual striker block safety. Not a “token” striker block safety. I’d be willing to bet that the lever type striker block safety is prone to inertial bypass if it even gets a little bit dirty. The p365 has a plunger type striker block mechanism and you don’t hear about nearly as many ADs
@FartimusMaximusTheGreat That does not appear to be a coincidence. The observant enthusiasts predicted after Sig lost that big safety lawsuit that Sig would slowly manufacture larger and larger versions of the P365. Eventually there will be a duty-size version of the P365, and the P320 will slowly fade from Manufacturing.
Three things that a lot of folks are overlooking about the P320: 1) The striker is under full spring tension (fully cocked) at all times until it is released by the trigger/seer, in contrast to the partial spring tension of guns like Glock. 2) The trigger is relatively light for a striker fired pistol and breaks at 90 degrees. This prevents installation of a trigger bar safety without a complete redesign of the FCU. 3) There is no trigger bar safety/ external thumb safety/ or backstrap safety preventing the trigger from being easily depressed (except for the M17/18) These three relatively minor issues combine into a big safety problem. The design is just inherently less safe than other striker fired pistols. To put this into perspective, it is ALMOST the equivalent of carrying a hammer fired pistol with the hammer cocked at all times and no safety, but with a slightly heavier trigger pull. I love my P320’s, but this IS a huge issue, and especially for mass use like law enforcement. If you are a P320 fan, I would encourage you to take a close look at the Springfield Echelon. It is also modular, and is a much safer design.
@@josh48315 My understanding is that the P365 is a different design. Most people attribute the P320's design being the way it is due to it being a last-minute redesign, whereas the P365 was designed from the ground up. Many people are saying that this is why they've now made a basically full-size version of the P365 (to have an option to transition away from the P320).
Friend’s P320 literally shot itself while being holstered (mounted under a desk). Fortunately, it did not kill anyone. He sent it to SIG, and they said that it was metal fatigue. This happened a couple of months ago. This example was the newer redesigned model. What a shit show.
DHS needs to ban these things too and switch to 9mm Glocks. Every other major agency is using some flavor of 19M/26/17/45. Still boggles the mind why that call was ever made.
so many other brands that don't have any issues Glock, M&P, HK, FN, Walther, Beretta why use the Sig p320 at this point Sig p22 series guns are the only Sig I would use for duty use.
No matter what happens, sig can never admit to faults with the design or they would be sued out of existence, something else that is crazy, all those lawsuits that sig say they won, yeah, take a look at what the judges have said
I have stayed away from Sig pistols due to all the ongoing issues and uncertainty. I have several Springfield Armory/HS Product, XD variants and they all function flawlessly. I have used two of them in classes and lots of range time with zero malfunctions.
BLEA is Basic Law Enforcement Academy, I think. I have to carry a 320 X Full at my department, and we have no option to carry anything else. The X Fulls are the second batch of 320s for us, though, as we used to have the 320 Nitron Carry models. The problem we had with that first batch was with the trigger bar return springs shearing apart or snapping. That happened on about 5 guns out of about 100 guns issued, and the 5 had anywhere between a couple hundred rounds and a few thousand rounds. No random discharges for us, though
This is the first time I've heard of the 320 trigger bar spring shearing. Super common on the 365, and knew it could happen with the 320 with how similar the design is. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more with mass issued 320s (PDs, M17/18s). Must be bad springs. Thanks for sharing your experience.
It’s easy to chalk it up to doofus cops, but when it’s happening to cops that have carried Glocks or M&Ps with no thumb safety for years and never had an issue but then all of a sudden start having issues with P320s then yeah, it’s the P320
There’s a 47min video here on yt called “How the P320 Cost Sig Millions (the Untold Story of Sig Sauer)” by Protraband. Good info. Sig Sauer. Never Settle (in court).
The reason why there are so many cops having issues is because sig offered very aggressive blue line discounts. Gun shop actually tried to sell me one thinking I was a cop. lol.
320s are on my department's banned gun list. Not allowed to carry it off duty. We were supposed to go them for our duty carry, but we immediately went with a different pistol
Someone at a competition had an untucked long sleeve shirt tail grab the trigger on their P320 as they went to holster after the RSO called "shooter make ready." Tuck in your shirt and look your gun into the holster... I suspect a lot of the incidents are situations like that. Holstering a loaded gun deserves proper safety and a set of eyes on the situation.
BLEA = Basic Law Enforcement Academy. Washington State and Oregon have one Law enforcement academy for the their entire state. Washington state is pretty much banning agency's from sending basic police recruits to the academy with Sig 320.
It’s a “cop” issue because the P320 is a full sized duty gun; it’s not a piece designed for civilian concealed carry. Yes, I’m sure there are plenty of people who carry one concealed. Got it. Thanks. I’m sure that the vast majority of P320s are carried in outside the waistband duty-type holsters.
I literally just bought a 320😂, personally I'm convinced the issues have been resolved. The early versions, 100% were bad. But In 2024, I'm confident in it.
I bought mine a year and a half ago or so, the M18 variant. No issues on my end and I carry it frequently. Must’ve bought one of the later models with the fix.
So what is it about the 320 that makes y'all feel unsafe about it? Like specifically internally that still leaves y'all in doubt about it just curious, honest question
Looks like sig is screwing themselves with this. They are avoiding saying there is a problem to avoid the ensuing liability but in the long run creating more of a problem for themselves. It sad because the concept of the 320 is super cool
I’m a cop. I got rid of my P320 and bought a Staccato P. I just don’t like that it doesn’t have a trigger safety. Is that really a big deal? Maybe…for me it is. My dept still issues the P320.
@@ripdoinksinamishIve carried an AR15 for a long time and they have free floating firing pins as well. Should we start demonizing the AR platform now? The masses never knew about free floating firing pins until GarandThumb intentionally dropped his on the muzzle. That says something.
Good riddance. Sig quality and reliability has been dropping for years. I purchased a P320 after the initial issues were ironed out. Straight out of the box, I had four failures to extract within the first three mags. A Sig fanboy at my gun club bought it off me for $100 more than I paid for it. He ended up getting the extractor replaced. Issue wasn’t fixed, so he sent it back. Sig ended up refunding him because they couldn’t figure out what was wrong with the gun. I still own a P226 from the 90s, and I’ve never had a single malfunction with 12k+ rounds through it. Modern striker fired sigs seem like they’re made of Chinese pot metal and cheap plastic. Total junk, and embarrassing to claim they’re duty/service ready.
Sig isn't worth it. Sure, they're innovative in an otherwise stale market, but they don't inform people of changes they literally have rolling changes that make "first Gen" guns obsolete because SIG won't warranty them, that's why I stay away from them even though there are guns I would like to try I just don't feel they are worth the headache. The Army is going to be Pissed when they realize they bought into a bad design because Sig won't be able to do rolling change on those guns without a new data package being approved.
Has anyone tracked which models continue to do this? I have only been seeing the polymer framed ones blow up and wonder how many of the aluminum or aftermarket metal ones have.
From what I've seen, the P320 rides a bit higher in the popular safariland holster than other guns, and the P320 has both a narrower trigger guard and a wider trigger face than a G17 while also lacking the trigger inertia safety "dingus" that most other striker fired handguns have. I think all these factors combined make it too easy for the trigger to get pulled while the gun is holstered. The Floodlight holster I use with my 320 leaves the trigger less exposed than the safariland model LE uses, but I can still easily reach in with my finger and pull the trigger while the gun is fully holstered. This is the only gun/holster I combo I own where it is possible to do that.
Noooo you see its a magical quality of the p320 that it *goes off* without the trigger being pulled. Nobody can recreate the issue, but we know its there...just believe.
I own and shoot many thousands of rounds through several 320s. Never had magical discharge, nor (calling a spade a spade), a negligent discharge. I guess that's just me. They say if you shoot often enough, you'll eventually get your own negligent discharge.
Sig Sauer, take ownership of your mistakes, don't deflect, like you did. Makes it so much worse!! This all comes back to poor leadership. Period. I'm a firearms instructor that's also certified to teach law enforcement. Unless and until Sig takes rightful ownership of their manufacturing issues (past and present) I will discourage any and all folks I know from buying Sig, - simply don't want to put anyone in a potentially unsafe situation.
BLEA = Basic Law Enforcement Academy.. in other words, the 6 month police academy you go thru when hired. We call it the same thing here in NJ and so do many other states.
Confused. Need more facts from SIG Sauer. Carried a 320 from 2016-2021 in a non light bearing level 2 ALS. Retired now but still concerned for our cops. Anyone out there EDC a 320?
I've carried my 320 in a PHLster Floodlight. No issues like this but I keep hearing these stories and it makes me kind of nervous. I'd hate to be the next guy to have some kind of issue like this.
@@herknorth8691 thanks. Making me nervous too. I occasionally shoot an irons only 320 for USPSA & IDPA. Wonder if SIG would install a thumb safety for free on my small collection of 320’s?
@@Platoon_Guide I think the FCU is different for the thumb safety model. There's a company that sells a kit to cut the required slot to install one, but I can't remember what they're called.
I appendix carry one every day, makes life spicy.. no light, holster longer than slide. It sounds like a lot of these come from some weird pressure on the muzzle/slide? I’d be curious to know what model holsters every one of these LE accidents involve
@@wesrausch3452 - Sig tried to blame it on Safariland holsters. But, look how many people carry Glocks and M&P's in Safariland holsters with no issues. I have been using a Safariland 6360RDS-ALS that I removed the retention strap and optic hood cover to have only the thumb button retention, with a full-size M&P 9mm for a few years, only shooting approx. 1200-1500 rounds a month with a lot of holster draws, but no issues. And I use that holster with 3 different M&P pistols.
I think the recent higher rate of ND are attributable to the fact that the trigger doesn’t have a safety and is pretty light. Technically not Sigs fault but definitely a design flaw in the age of AIWB carry. The whole gun needed a few years more development.
I think there is a certain secondary MIM manufacturer whose parts cause these issues, or a certain combination of them since there are multiple manufacturers doing multiple parts. Regardless this means that you are rolling a dice every time you buy a 320 which means that it’s a no go until Sig grows a pair and releases a statement that they have found the issue and fixed it, but considering that they will never do so because after so many lawsuits it would be an admission of guilt basically and they would be liable for millions upon millions. I remember a time when Sig Sauer was what you pointed to when you wanted to make an example of a quality firearm, I miss those days.
Fraternal order of police & the national police association banned the glock for police use back in the mid 80's. Funny that is 99.9% of the pseudo firing by itself is been Leo's. I have observed the weapons manipulation of the guntubers and 100's of shooters in trng classes and competitions, and I never saw a weapon just firing by itself, not even heavily modified competition guns. Mention to me any single pd officer that will say....yup I was carelessly handling my gun, it was my fault that subconsciously I have a finger in the trigger guard, so is OK to loose my job. How many unintentional discharges happen during shooting competitions. Glock paid off every single issue with their gun and include a NDA with the check. Just saying....
Sig had an opportunity to fix this and do a proper recall, they chose a different path and it is gonna cost them, hopefully they can get ahead of this before it puts the company under.
My P320 made from a MUP1 80% kit hasn’t had any of these issues. Not trying to say I’m better than a manufacturer, but my FCU was made by me and have almost all aftermarket parts. I’m curious if platform issue, or a manufacturer issue. Idk, time will tell. My gun is on me 24/7 and I shoot a lot. Haven’t had any misfires, no FTF’s, no slide/battery issues. I’ve had mine going on 5 years. I I perform weekly maintenance on my gun too. The insides definitely build up debris and lint pretty quickly. I’m by no means saying these issues dont exist either. I like many guns, so I’m not being a defensive fanboy. Maybe I’m just lucky. Also, does caliber choice matter? Seems like a lot of these happen with 9mm, I carry and shoot .40, haven’t had any issues with the brand of ammo either. The only issue I ever had was due to a single magazine wearing out over time. That was the one FTF issue. Got a new mag, and used my others, didn’t happen again. Ngl, they push so many models out, I wouldn’t be surprised of some parts have issues working with other parts. I also made my all metal, the plastic grip just felt too light and flimsy for how heavy the slides/uppers are. Once I made that change with an Icarus precision lower, the balance and feel was much better.
But they're not going off when cops are just driving down the highway or walking down the street or strolling through a public building and it sounds like a lot of the times some of them have gone off have been at ranges and training sessions🤔
I am wondering, how many people actually know that Ron Cohen (Sig CEO) was detained for 10 days by police in 2018 and later pleaded guilty in a rico case in 2019, due to violating their company's country of origin law. He knowingly sold 38k pistols to another restricted country to make money off of that. Please add that to the track record when considering their reputation and when talking about their conscience as a company. (PS: the article pops up 1st in the list if you look it up)
He avoided 18 months of sentencing by accepting to collaborate. He only paid 675k fine. People had mixed opinions about it, like was it "justice denied" or not, but one can say for sure the law doesn't work the same for the rich... In the end it comes up to 600$ x 38000 = 24 000 000$ So you gotta ask was it worth the risk of paying $675k fine and maybe have an article written about you, lol
![[Gegagedigedagedago] NEW Help Gegagedigedagedago Nugget escape from Nikocado Avocado Challenge](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hJWnwRC2Fz8/mqdefault.jpg)
lmfao ben wearing a GBRS shirt. love the subtle trolling.
lmao😂😂
The GBRS Group shirt for this video is ironic for sure since those guys are Sig ambassadors. I Think Ernest Langdon described the situation very well a couple years back when he said this gun tries to emulate a 1911 trigger very little take up with crispr break), but has no safety. This is a recipe for trouble. Yes I know the M17 and M18 have a manual safetym which I think is very needed on this gun, but 100% of LEOs I have interacted with do not run manual safety model P320s. The fact is that many many LEOs have the bare minimum required for handgun training. Many are not gun enthusiast and do not seek more in deoth training to better themselves.
@@82lowe36id most accurate comment in the thread here. You are spot on about the P320 as well as about cops. I retired with 27 years as a LEO. We qual’ed quarterly, and the course was not difficult. Still, a lot of people had trouble passing….every quarter. My department offered a ton of great training and gave you ammo to train with, but it was up to you to show up to the range. It was always the same group of guys who showed up, and they weren’t the same ones who had trouble during quals.
Is the same dangerous design in the P365 or is the 365 a safer design?
That was my amateur idea. I've not shot a 320, but dry firing them I found the trigger to be too light, with not much pre travel and so safety dingus.
Seems like a recipe for disaster.
@@josh48315 The P365 is a completely different design than the P320. Still, no external safety of any sort, and a light-ish 90 degree trigger. I have not heard of any of the same issues with the P365 though.
I'm not sure how someone could ever describe the 320's trigger as anything close to 1911 as it's a mushy mess.
Sig says they fixed the issue, and SIG would NEVER lie to prevent poor sales! THIS must be fake.
When did Sig say they fixed the issue? They fixed the drop issue. This is not the drop issue.
@@Pappy7064do you own a sig? 🥺
@@cardboard_shaft I own many Sigs but I am concerned about the issues with the 320. Why do you ask
There are millions of 320’s in the wild for nearly 10 years. If this was a real, widespread issue then there would be more than a handful of cops and other civilians who were having ND’s lol.
@@Clockwork0nions there’s dozens of them exploding in military service. well documented cases. just sell your gun already and stop being emotionally attached. it sucks. just how it is lol
Our agency T&E’d the 320 with 2.0’s and G45’s a couple years ago. When we reached out to the Sig rep about our concerns with the reports coming out of uncommanded discharges, we were assured the problem was user error and agencies using wrong holsters. He offered us free armorer courses and vouchers to their training facility in NH
Damage was already done. Our brass and attorneys were already scared off by the liability. We went with the 2.0’s and never looked back.
What the heck is a “2.0”? Are you referring to S&W M&P 2.0?
@@josh48315 Are you referring to the Smith & Wesson Military & Police 2.0?
@@Blacksunlight7 You said you T&E'd the 320 with 2.0s and G45s. I'm asking what is a "2.0"?
@@josh48315 ….yes.
@@josh48315that's the only pistola commonly referred to as the 2 point O...
The comment from the sig fanboy about, it's because so many cops carry the 320 every day is the reason for the issues. Really? I am no Glock fan, but how many hundred thousand cops carry a Glock every day (for 35+ years) and you seldom hear of any issues? Especially not discharging in the holster without human error. But you hear about a sig 320 issues every couple months! Even before now, many LE agencies that switched from Glock to the 320's are switching back to Glocks.
Funny you must be 12 ..cause cops where shooting themselves while field stopping blocks all through the 80s and I heard the same things ..all guns shot bullets
Came here to make this argument as well
I retired from Arlington PD where we issued Glocks for 30 years, we had no issues like this SIG issue. Cops can be the worst gun owner/carriers but we kept the ND/ADs to a minimum and none ever fired in the holster.......fwiw
Ever hear of Glock Leg...It didn't get called that out of the blue.
If a cop has an ND with a Glock, it isn't an option to blame the Glock, due to how it's perceived.
Not the same with the Sig. Cops feel like they can get away with blaming the gun. (I don't own a 320, so not saying this as a sigger)
I can see why they would not want to use a gun with a “sketchy” track record with problems. Why risk it when there are better options. My local police department stopped using the 320 as their issue gun. They were looking hard at the PDP. But ultimately, I was told through some inside baseball that they went back to Glock simply because they could get them cheaper even though the PDP was preferred. Some of the officers that were 320 fanboys that touted Sig as “the military’s choice” were upset they went back to Glock simply because they were cheaper. Well, how in the hell do they think Sig got the military contract? Undercutting. At least Glock has a better track record than the 320.
The fact that none of these have been able to be replicated leaves me to believe that there are good guns and bad guns in the production line with no way to tell if yours is good or bad.
Assuming that every single one of these cases isn’t just an ND that the PDs are lying about
Thought this was gonna be a typical sigger comment putting all the blame on cops, but yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if this was really the case. Shoddy manufacturing that affects some, but not all guns, sounds like typocal Sig SOP to me.
Tf, don't tell me "sigger" is a trigger word for yt now... my previous comment seems to have disappeared
the result of hasty design, poor QC, and too many subcontractor variations
I believe there are some quality control issues. Ben's p320 not going back into battery after a "soft" rack is one sign that there is.
That doesn't exactly inspire confidence
“A sketchy gun from a shady company.”
Google Ron Cohen illegal arms trafficking arrest 2019
Absolutely, karma is bitting the. In the butt.
I've always thought my 365xl was meh, and my mpx had 2 failure to eject out of 100 rounds last time I took it to the range. The mpx needed to be lubed, but it wasn't dry, and shouldn't have had any issues. I bought the mpx because it was supposed to be super reliable. 115 grain fmj brass casing from blazer. I bought a cz shadow 2 compact and love it. I'm thinking about trading the 365xl for a similar size CZ.
Sig is the Umbrella Corp with Harley Davidsons marketing team
@@MikeHoxafloppin The P10 S is a good choice.
The crazier thing to me is the Sigger cope of saying "well they're cops and they're not the best trained!" like yeah but cops didn't start carrying handguns with the P320. Why has this not been an issue with Glocks after Gen 1 (that there was a full recall and refund and free upgrade to Gen 2 30 years ago for all departments issuing them), S&W M&P 1.0 and 2.0, Sig 226, CZ P10 and P07, HK VP9, etc etc? If anything cops are better trained today than they were 20 years ago and we still never heard of crazy NDs inside holsters other than Serpa shenanigans, and that's just a bad design for drawing the gun, guns still didn't just go off in Serpas
Sig undercut the glock submission to the army by almost 200.00 per copy.
So what your saying is the Army is unwittingly Sig’s biggest shill
The Army pre-determined they wanted Sig, Glock stood no chance
because they charge more and get it back from the public
@@lon242 The contract was for modular - glock presented the same firearm they've been producing for 30 years. That's the crux of it all..
@@reeceorrick6748 You don't need a swapable lego pistol. The swappable back straps literally fit the requirement.
I’ll keep my Lorcin 380…thank you very much
@@nvkulk 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I recently saw a better quality video of the P320 that went off in an officer's holster while he was fighting with a guy in the police station. This was the incident that happened a year or so ago. The video showed the gun went off when the holster was hit and the gun twisted in the holster. I believe it was one of Donut Operators recent videos.
Yeah, lots of us have seen it. Maybe not on donut operator's channel but we've still seen it. When I watched it it was a big question if the gun was properly seated all the way into the holster.
@@SAR0311 That was the question everyone was asking. From the video, it did look like the gun might not be seated all the way inside the holster. I have a P320 and a similar safariland holster that the officer in the video was using. I don't see a way that the trigger could have been pressed even if the gun was not completely locked into the holster. Those holsters are just a big hole around the trigger area. They lock from the ejection port so all the moving mechanisms are in the top. There's literally nothing in the holster that could pull the trigger even if the gun wasn't completely inside it. For that to happen, something else would have had to be in the holster with the gun.
My agency has banned the usage of the P320 for duty use due to all the issues. We can carry them off duty if we choose, but not for duty.
Haha I don’t see how they could dictate what you carry on your own time anyway.
@@thepracticalrifleman For most law enforcement agencies, the officers are never truly off duty. They have the same authority whether they are on the clock or off, so if an off duty officer is involved in a shooting, it's still going to be treated as a law enforcement incident. Because of that, the agency can have some say so in what their officers carry on and off duty.
@@jonp5760 so how can they leave their jurisdiction?
@@thepracticalriflemanan agency can dictate what you carry off duty based on policy. It’s pretty common for LE agencies to have guidelines you have to meet for duty,off duty, and backup carry. While it’s not necessarily against the law to carry a gun you haven’t qualified with and that has been approved by an agency range master/armorer, it opens up a HUGE door for civil liability and possible criminal litigation if you use an unauthorized weapon. Anything can and will be used against you in court.
EDIT- Pursuant to HR 218, an agency that issues permits for law enforcement to carry off duty have the authority to set guidelines on what is acceptable. So, I guess it could be illegal depending on your states laws on concealed or open carry.
I’m not a lawyer, and this isn’t legal advise. Just FYI.
@@justinanderson7042 so what you’re saying is an off-duty cop shoots a bystander he’s not liable if it’s an department approved weapon?
Laughs in M&P.
This.
Snorts in Safe Action glonk. 🐽 😂
My first gun was an M&P. I feel like a migratory animal returning home as now I'm swapping my carry Sig for a S&W. I wish Glock would do a manual safety G19.
@@McUsernameFace you like the manual safety? To each their own. I bought an M&P 1.0 in 2015 and was happy that it didn't have a manual safety.
@@McUsernameFace Welcome back. I think you'll enjoy the M&P. If you haven't tried the 2.0 versions, they are a far cry from the original models which were already pretty good.
I think the biggest problem with the p320 is that it's just a DAO hammer fired gun that they shoved a striker into with as little development as possible instead of trying to make an actual gun.
Still brings up questions though, you don't really hear of these issues with the P365 line.
Funniest part is that this is US army duty pistol
The military is not known for intelligent decisions, and this issue was not known when it was adopted.
Sig board members must be in the DOD, they won way too many contracts that’s ended up having wording or specifications that fit Sig products
@@STANDupPhilosopher73 but the drop issue was known and they still went for it
Our USAF m18s are indeed deadlined, we don't use them but once a year though.
the army forces people to use the safety
Sig needs the trigger dingus.
fact
They need it for cops definitely
I really feel like MAC unintentionally coined the old word "dingus" as a modern firearm term and now it's just a universally understood standard part.
@@Philly1958 They would have to completely redesign the FCU because of the 90 degree trigger break. That’s not gonna happen.
Sig needs to focus on the 365 and P226/229.
Whatevers happening to sig is of their own making.
Part of my job is to do troubleshooting on electrical systems. The easiest problems to troubleshoot are the ones that are reproducible. Problems that are random are WAY harder to troubleshoot, but they're still actual problems and need to be solved. Something like the P320 issue could be due to tolerance stacking in the gun itself or it could be stacking in the ecosystem used to store/carry in duty situations like poorly fitting holsters and the fact that duty P320s can fire out of battery. 40CalNevadaUSA has a good video discussing the issues and what to do to mitigate them.
You would think it would be reproducible in the gun that did have the issue. With the Tolerance stacking if that is an issue.
@@pcnorton Theoretically, yes. I can imagine scenarios where tolerance stacking might need certain conditions to become an issue, for instance - how long was a pistol carried in a loaded condition before an incident occurred? It's likely some LE might carry their weapons and store them loaded for days or weeks (or even months?) without firing a round which could possibly allow parts to shift enough and fail to function as intended if tolerance stacking were in issue in that specific firearm. Based on the reported incidents, it's a rare occurrence. At the same time, according to a report from 2016 that covered UDs in law enforcement from 1992-2016, all the reported UDs happened with the gun drawn during routine tasks, or were due to muscle co-activations, unfamiliar tasks and contact with objects. So the P320s going off in holsters or bags or whatever appear to be a new issue. I also haven't been able to find any examples of similar incidents with any other duty pistols.
Ben, I was the original P320 fanboy. Bought early on and ended up with 3 FCUs and multiple slides and grip modules. I went with Grayguns triggers & spring setups. Went thru the safety update. I defended Sig against the negative news. I eventually grew tired and a little "nervous", sold all P320s 2 years ago. Bought a Stacatto P, great gun and had fun with it, but just recently sold and returned to my Glock roots, I carry a G19, and just bought a G47 same time you did. G47 is a great gun! My best shooting friend who shoots XC and Atlas pistols, watching what I have done, now wishes he had stuck to his G34s! Funny the vicious circles we get into!
Protraband did a good video on Sig's sketchy history of lawsuits surrounding the 320 and issues with its "safety" mechanisms
In summary, Sig has been sued multiple times on confirmed accounts of uncommanded discharges with the p320 (post gen 1), but has been able to get these cases dismissed on a technicality. The trigger safety mechanism is still fundamentally flawed and can theoretically fail due to variability in manufacturing tolerances. This is likely why we don't see all 320s detonating in people's pants, but a few every now and then.
im surprised they even let law enforcement carry guns in washington state
The 320, US Army's biggest mistake in sidearms selection in history.
Just wait until the SIG NGSW gets fielded. The Army has never made good small arms decisions.
Nephews in the Marine Corps, joined at the time when they still had the Beretta, generally everyone had a love-hate relationship with the pistol. When the Sig started getting issued everyone was stoked for a new polymer pistol because it could be tactikewl. After a few months when the Sigs started going down on the firing range because of randomly breaking internal parts or shearing screws so that the optic/sight plate flew back and hit Marines in the face, they were kind over the things. He said later when all the stories started coming out of Cops and Service members getting holes blown in their hands, legs, and balls, people were wishing for the old Berettas.
Yep. And now they're replacing the M4... Sig's probably got a guy on the inside pulling strings to get contracts.
Corruption.
@@chairmanbrando It's not a conspiracy they were just the cheapest option, they undercut Glock and FN by crazy margins. If the contract was meant to go to the "best" pistol Glock would have won, the majority of US SOF have been running Glocks for a long time for good reason, our government would rather scrape money off the top of these contracts to stuff in the pockets of those at the top of the military industrial complex than provide our soldiers with the best possible kit.
My carry gun is a p320 carry (with a WC grip). To be honest, I made sure the FCU was a post July 2019 model (lots of changes made until July 2019, probably fixing some/most of the problems). I also put on an Agency Arms trigger (with trigger safety), because let's be honest, it only makes sense. I think most of problems of guns going off in holsters (particularly with cops) is that shit can get into safarilands from the side. If you combine that with a lack of trigger safety, you're gonna have more booms. I remember Aaron Cowan, in a video from 500 years ago, talked about taking the bottom plugs out of all of his safarilands because stuff just kept falling in. He mentioned that this was particularly a cop problem. So in short, older FCUs might actually randomly go off (not often, but once is too often) combined with lack of trigger safety, guns with flashlights (which require a wider holster) and shit in holsters probably equals more frequent ADs.
Wait, you mean when you cludge a striker gun out of spare frames and slides you had for your failed DAO good idea fairy pistol, and then MIM parts that should be stamped, it has issues? I am Jack's total lack of surprise.
The 320 told the Serpa Blackhawk to hold it beer! 😂
What was that "woosh" sound at the start of the video? I didn't realize you started editing your videos.
I think BLEA = Basic Law Enforcement Academy. The Basic Law Enforcement Academy (BLEA) is Washington’s mandated training academy for all city and county entry-level peace officers in the state.
I saw a 320 go off when the shooter was on the line during the make ready at a competition. He racked the slide and it shot. 100% did not touch the trigger he did however say the gun was not stock.
well.....that last bit says it all
@@DavidMilesMusicthe difference is you change a recoil spring in a glock and it doesn’t AD when you rack it lmao
@@cardboard_shaft You sure? Go read about people with aftermarket parts in glocks. No gun is safe from dodgey aftermarket internals. As soon as somebody says something inside was aftermarket, the discussion is very difficult to have around reliability or blaming the manufacturer.
@@DavidMilesMusic seems to happen the most with sig, by far hahahaha
@@cardboard_shaft got any data for that or just vibes LMAO
Shouldn't this be something that can be proven through experimentation? Seems like if there was a mechanical issue you could test this and confirm it really easily. Remember the drop safe test? That was easily proven through a simple test and the video went viral.
noooo dont talk sense, we all know its a magical intrinsic quality that sigs have. Much like a soul. We cant prove it but we know its there just believe us!
Its funny to me that 80 percent home made glocks made in a dude's kitchen can be safer.
Because the 320 has basic design issues that Glocks don’t have.
BLEA is the Basic Law Enforcement Academy. My agency also received the directive. Even officers coming onto the campus aren't allowed to have them there anymore
Whaaa whaaa, i can only afford my one glock and im saving up for a second pistol. Ive watched every youtuber review every pistol made in the last 5 years, but i absolutely will not ever even think about buying a Sig.
Just buy a grit grips glock frame if you want another glock and build it thyself
I see the shirt, so when is the hydra mount review coming out? Or the archon review?
I was wondering too since they shit on them all the time lol
We have several agencies in my county that have disallowed / banned the P320 for carry on or off duty. There is a largish size agency (300+) that issues the P320 for almost 7-10 years. There are no reports of uncommanded discharges with the guns from them though. I have one, but am hesitant to carry it.
Sig 320 needs an actual striker block safety. Not a “token” striker block safety. I’d be willing to bet that the lever type striker block safety is prone to inertial bypass if it even gets a little bit dirty.
The p365 has a plunger type striker block mechanism and you don’t hear about nearly as many ADs
Be interesting to see a comparison of stats between the 320 and Glocks.
Sig is scrambling for another SOF jock to shill for them instead of fixing the issue lol
You can tell sig crapped the bed with the 250 by turning it into a 320 because now they have pretty much made the 365 a full sized gun
@FartimusMaximusTheGreat That does not appear to be a coincidence. The observant enthusiasts predicted after Sig lost that big safety lawsuit that Sig would slowly manufacture larger and larger versions of the P365. Eventually there will be a duty-size version of the P365, and the P320 will slowly fade from
Manufacturing.
@@woodystube1000 💯 agree
That sound effect swoosh at the beginning really shows the production value going up 😅
Glock: the ugliest gun I trust my life with.
When I first heard the p320 was dangerous it terrified me so much I immediately went out and purchased another p320
Three things that a lot of folks are overlooking about the P320:
1) The striker is under full spring tension (fully cocked) at all times until it is released by the trigger/seer, in contrast to the partial spring tension of guns like Glock.
2) The trigger is relatively light for a striker fired pistol and breaks at 90 degrees. This prevents installation of a trigger bar safety without a complete redesign of the FCU.
3) There is no trigger bar safety/ external thumb safety/ or backstrap safety preventing the trigger from being easily depressed (except for the M17/18)
These three relatively minor issues combine into a big safety problem. The design is just inherently less safe than other striker fired pistols. To put this into perspective, it is ALMOST the equivalent of carrying a hammer fired pistol with the hammer cocked at all times and no safety, but with a slightly heavier trigger pull. I love my P320’s, but this IS a huge issue, and especially for mass use like law enforcement.
If you are a P320 fan, I would encourage you to take a close look at the Springfield Echelon. It is also modular, and is a much safer design.
I carry my 1911 cocked and loaded with the safety off and a rubber band around the grip safety. I call it modernization.
@@NGC-gu6dz 😂😂
Is the 365 lineup built the same? I’ve got a P365 XL so curious if it’s the same design or if it’s any safer than the P320 design
@@josh48315
My understanding is that the P365 is a different design. Most people attribute the P320's design being the way it is due to it being a last-minute redesign, whereas the P365 was designed from the ground up.
Many people are saying that this is why they've now made a basically full-size version of the P365 (to have an option to transition away from the P320).
@@deschain1910 Correct, the P365 is a completely different mechanism.
The 320 is fine. Just don’t get it close to ammo, holsters or people and it won’t explode or misfire! :-)
@@mabutarif the twist got me 😂
More accurately, dont get it near people who dont know how to handle a firearm and it should be fine.
Friend’s P320 literally shot itself while being holstered (mounted under a desk). Fortunately, it did not kill anyone. He sent it to SIG, and they said that it was metal fatigue. This happened a couple of months ago. This example was the newer redesigned model. What a shit show.
DHS needs to ban these things too and switch to 9mm Glocks. Every other major agency is using some flavor of 19M/26/17/45. Still boggles the mind why that call was ever made.
Have someone tried to make an unloaded gun go click, just by twisting it a bit?
Sig once again facing the consequences of their half-ass attempt to turn a DAO hammer fire platform into a mediocre striker fire platform
so many other brands that don't have any issues Glock, M&P, HK, FN, Walther, Beretta why use the Sig p320 at this point Sig p22 series guns are the only Sig I would use for duty use.
M&P isn’t a brand…
@@readyup1809 S&W most know what the M&P line of pistol is but for a autistic retard like you we have to be more careful
No matter what happens, sig can never admit to faults with the design or they would be sued out of existence, something else that is crazy, all those lawsuits that sig say they won, yeah, take a look at what the judges have said
I'd love to know if adding the manual safety would solve all this? Still has to be put on safe, but would the same issues be at play with a safety.
I have stayed away from Sig pistols due to all the ongoing issues and uncertainty. I have several Springfield Armory/HS Product, XD variants and they all function flawlessly. I have used two of them in classes and lots of range time with zero malfunctions.
BLEA is Basic Law Enforcement Academy, I think. I have to carry a 320 X Full at my department, and we have no option to carry anything else. The X Fulls are the second batch of 320s for us, though, as we used to have the 320 Nitron Carry models.
The problem we had with that first batch was with the trigger bar return springs shearing apart or snapping. That happened on about 5 guns out of about 100 guns issued, and the 5 had anywhere between a couple hundred rounds and a few thousand rounds. No random discharges for us, though
This is the first time I've heard of the 320 trigger bar spring shearing. Super common on the 365, and knew it could happen with the 320 with how similar the design is. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more with mass issued 320s (PDs, M17/18s). Must be bad springs. Thanks for sharing your experience.
It’s easy to chalk it up to doofus cops, but when it’s happening to cops that have carried Glocks or M&Ps with no thumb safety for years and never had an issue but then all of a sudden start having issues with P320s then yeah, it’s the P320
There’s a 47min video here on yt called “How the P320 Cost Sig Millions (the Untold Story of Sig Sauer)” by Protraband. Good info.
Sig Sauer. Never Settle (in court).
Serpa holsters were banned in many places for a lot less than what P320s are doing.
BLEA probably stands for basic law enforcement academy or something like that
Does the 320 MAX have the same problems?
Never had problems with mine!
Hey Ben, on the law enforcement videos out of curiosity how did you get into law enforcement training?
Every time I watch a Ben Stoeger video, my karma increase by +1
The reason why there are so many cops having issues is because sig offered very aggressive blue line discounts. Gun shop actually tried to sell me one thinking I was a cop. lol.
We switched from SIG 320s to Glock Model 45s. Personally, I felt the 320 was more accurate and shot better, but I'll carry whatever they want me to.
320s are on my department's banned gun list. Not allowed to carry it off duty. We were supposed to go them for our duty carry, but we immediately went with a different pistol
What pistol did you go with
@@josh48315 pdp-c with aimpoint acro
Someone at a competition had an untucked long sleeve shirt tail grab the trigger on their P320 as they went to holster after the RSO called "shooter make ready." Tuck in your shirt and look your gun into the holster... I suspect a lot of the incidents are situations like that. Holstering a loaded gun deserves proper safety and a set of eyes on the situation.
I carry X5 Legion as my duty pistol
yikes
Careful, that's what my uncle's department used and they switched to G45 after a few NDs in the holster that led to serious injuries
BLEA = Basic Law Enforcement Academy. Washington State and Oregon have one Law enforcement academy for the their entire state. Washington state is pretty much banning agency's from sending basic police recruits to the academy with Sig 320.
So many other good duty pistol options now. Fair or not, P320 seems to be on it's way out.
The GooBeRS shirt really ties in the video 😂
It’s a “cop” issue because the P320 is a full sized duty gun; it’s not a piece designed for civilian concealed carry. Yes, I’m sure there are plenty of people who carry one concealed. Got it. Thanks. I’m sure that the vast majority of P320s are carried in outside the waistband duty-type holsters.
I literally just bought a 320😂, personally I'm convinced the issues have been resolved. The early versions, 100% were bad. But In 2024, I'm confident in it.
I bought mine a year and a half ago or so, the M18 variant. No issues on my end and I carry it frequently. Must’ve bought one of the later models with the fix.
I recommend avoiding the appendix carry.
I have one but wouldn't dare appendix carry it.
So what is it about the 320 that makes y'all feel unsafe about it? Like specifically internally that still leaves y'all in doubt about it just curious, honest question
Looks like sig is screwing themselves with this. They are avoiding saying there is a problem to avoid the ensuing liability but in the long run creating more of a problem for themselves. It sad because the concept of the 320 is super cool
I’m a cop. I got rid of my P320 and bought a Staccato P. I just don’t like that it doesn’t have a trigger safety. Is that really a big deal? Maybe…for me it is. My dept still issues the P320.
Better not drop that Staccato 😂
Hope you never fall over
@@ripdoinksinamishIve carried an AR15 for a long time and they have free floating firing pins as well. Should we start demonizing the AR platform now? The masses never knew about free floating firing pins until GarandThumb intentionally dropped his on the muzzle. That says something.
Its Friday. Another day for an anti-SIG video from Team Stoeger.
Well I love mines!!Tell them to send them all to me
Ben, will we ever see you shoot in flip flops again? Asking for a friend…
Why isn’t Sig addressing the mechanical issues surfacing with their pistols? It’s bizarre.
Good riddance. Sig quality and reliability has been dropping for years. I purchased a P320 after the initial issues were ironed out. Straight out of the box, I had four failures to extract within the first three mags. A Sig fanboy at my gun club bought it off me for $100 more than I paid for it. He ended up getting the extractor replaced. Issue wasn’t fixed, so he sent it back. Sig ended up refunding him because they couldn’t figure out what was wrong with the gun. I still own a P226 from the 90s, and I’ve never had a single malfunction with 12k+ rounds through it. Modern striker fired sigs seem like they’re made of Chinese pot metal and cheap plastic. Total junk, and embarrassing to claim they’re duty/service ready.
Sig isn't worth it. Sure, they're innovative in an otherwise stale market, but they don't inform people of changes they literally have rolling changes that make "first Gen" guns obsolete because SIG won't warranty them, that's why I stay away from them even though there are guns I would like to try I just don't feel they are worth the headache. The Army is going to be Pissed when they realize they bought into a bad design because Sig won't be able to do rolling change on those guns without a new data package being approved.
Has anyone tracked which models continue to do this? I have only been seeing the polymer framed ones blow up and wonder how many of the aluminum or aftermarket metal ones have.
From what I've seen, the P320 rides a bit higher in the popular safariland holster than other guns, and the P320 has both a narrower trigger guard and a wider trigger face than a G17 while also lacking the trigger inertia safety "dingus" that most other striker fired handguns have. I think all these factors combined make it too easy for the trigger to get pulled while the gun is holstered. The Floodlight holster I use with my 320 leaves the trigger less exposed than the safariland model LE uses, but I can still easily reach in with my finger and pull the trigger while the gun is fully holstered. This is the only gun/holster I combo I own where it is possible to do that.
Noooo you see its a magical quality of the p320 that it *goes off* without the trigger being pulled. Nobody can recreate the issue, but we know its there...just believe.
I just stick with Glock and H&K lol
I own and shoot many thousands of rounds through several 320s. Never had magical discharge, nor (calling a spade a spade), a negligent discharge. I guess that's just me. They say if you shoot often enough, you'll eventually get your own negligent discharge.
That is a cozy looking backyard.
Where there's smoke, there's fire.
Sig Sauer, take ownership of your mistakes, don't deflect, like you did. Makes it so much worse!! This all comes back to poor leadership. Period. I'm a firearms instructor that's also certified to teach law enforcement. Unless and until Sig takes rightful ownership of their manufacturing issues (past and present) I will discourage any and all folks I know from buying Sig, - simply don't want to put anyone in a potentially unsafe situation.
BLEA = Basic Law Enforcement Academy.. in other words, the 6 month police academy you go thru when hired. We call it the same thing here in NJ and so do many other states.
Confused. Need more facts from SIG Sauer. Carried a 320 from 2016-2021 in a non light bearing level 2 ALS. Retired now but still concerned for our cops. Anyone out there EDC a 320?
I've carried my 320 in a PHLster Floodlight. No issues like this but I keep hearing these stories and it makes me kind of nervous. I'd hate to be the next guy to have some kind of issue like this.
@@herknorth8691 thanks. Making me nervous too. I occasionally shoot an irons only 320 for USPSA & IDPA. Wonder if SIG would install a thumb safety for free on my small collection of 320’s?
@@Platoon_Guide I think the FCU is different for the thumb safety model. There's a company that sells a kit to cut the required slot to install one, but I can't remember what they're called.
I appendix carry one every day, makes life spicy.. no light, holster longer than slide. It sounds like a lot of these come from some weird pressure on the muzzle/slide? I’d be curious to know what model holsters every one of these LE accidents involve
@@wesrausch3452 - Sig tried to blame it on Safariland holsters. But, look how many people carry Glocks and M&P's in Safariland holsters with no issues. I have been using a Safariland 6360RDS-ALS that I removed the retention strap and optic hood cover to have only the thumb button retention, with a full-size M&P 9mm for a few years, only shooting approx. 1200-1500 rounds a month with a lot of holster draws, but no issues. And I use that holster with 3 different M&P pistols.
I'll add that in one of these incidents the gun was not in a holster. I'm not familiar with the other incident
I think the recent higher rate of ND are attributable to the fact that the trigger doesn’t have a safety and is pretty light. Technically not Sigs fault but definitely a design flaw in the age of AIWB carry. The whole gun needed a few years more development.
I think there is a certain secondary MIM manufacturer whose parts cause these issues, or a certain combination of them since there are multiple manufacturers doing multiple parts.
Regardless this means that you are rolling a dice every time you buy a 320 which means that it’s a no go until Sig grows a pair and releases a statement that they have found the issue and fixed it, but considering that they will never do so because after so many lawsuits it would be an admission of guilt basically and they would be liable for millions upon millions.
I remember a time when Sig Sauer was what you pointed to when you wanted to make an example of a quality firearm, I miss those days.
Fraternal order of police & the national police association banned the glock for police use back in the mid 80's. Funny that is 99.9% of the pseudo firing by itself is been Leo's. I have observed the weapons manipulation of the guntubers and 100's of shooters in trng classes and competitions, and I never saw a weapon just firing by itself, not even heavily modified competition guns. Mention to me any single pd officer that will say....yup I was carelessly handling my gun, it was my fault that subconsciously I have a finger in the trigger guard, so is OK to loose my job. How many unintentional discharges happen during shooting competitions. Glock paid off every single issue with their gun and include a NDA with the check. Just saying....
Sig had an opportunity to fix this and do a proper recall, they chose a different path and it is gonna cost them, hopefully they can get ahead of this before it puts the company under.
My P320 made from a MUP1 80% kit hasn’t had any of these issues. Not trying to say I’m better than a manufacturer, but my FCU was made by me and have almost all aftermarket parts. I’m curious if platform issue, or a manufacturer issue.
Idk, time will tell. My gun is on me 24/7 and I shoot a lot. Haven’t had any misfires, no FTF’s, no slide/battery issues. I’ve had mine going on 5 years. I I perform weekly maintenance on my gun too. The insides definitely build up debris and lint pretty quickly.
I’m by no means saying these issues dont exist either. I like many guns, so I’m not being a defensive fanboy. Maybe I’m just lucky. Also, does caliber choice matter? Seems like a lot of these happen with 9mm, I carry and shoot .40, haven’t had any issues with the brand of ammo either. The only issue I ever had was due to a single magazine wearing out over time. That was the one FTF issue. Got a new mag, and used my others, didn’t happen again.
Ngl, they push so many models out, I wouldn’t be surprised of some parts have issues working with other parts. I also made my all metal, the plastic grip just felt too light and flimsy for how heavy the slides/uppers are. Once I made that change with an Icarus precision lower, the balance and feel was much better.
Who is Washington and why are so many cops discharging in him?
Theyre gonna make em carry a Taurus.
If in doubt, blame the tool, not the user.
But they're not going off when cops are just driving down the highway or walking down the street or strolling through a public building and it sounds like a lot of the times some of them have gone off have been at ranges and training sessions🤔
I am wondering, how many people actually know that Ron Cohen (Sig CEO) was detained for 10 days by police in 2018 and later pleaded guilty in a rico case in 2019, due to violating their company's country of origin law. He knowingly sold 38k pistols to another restricted country to make money off of that. Please add that to the track record when considering their reputation and when talking about their conscience as a company.
(PS: the article pops up 1st in the list if you look it up)
He avoided 18 months of sentencing by accepting to collaborate. He only paid 675k fine. People had mixed opinions about it, like was it "justice denied" or not, but one can say for sure the law doesn't work the same for the rich...
In the end it comes up to 600$ x 38000 = 24 000 000$
So you gotta ask was it worth the risk of paying $675k fine and maybe have an article written about you, lol
Love the GBRS shirt
The p 365 will get a full-size version and replace the p320