I lived in Lindenwold from 1985 until 1996 and used PATCO to commute to my job with Amtrak at 30th street station. Here's a few facts about PATCO. PATCO was planned to be a three branch system. In addition to the main branch to Lindenwold two other lines were planned. One would run north to the Moorestown area and the other would run south towards the Glassboro area. In your video at the 11:30 mark you can see the ramp that was built for these two lines to diverge from the main line. There is talk of a light rail line south towards Glassboro that would be an extension of the River line and not PATCO. You mentioned the operators having to run the trains in manual mode during wet track conditions. This is because the braking distance setup in ATO mode causes the trains to slide by the stations in rain, snow and ice. When PATCO was being planned the stations would have manned ticket booths to sell tickets and collect fares. These booths would only be open during daylight hours. At night the train operators would collect fares. In order to do this a small number of single cars were ordered. The operators position was placed on the left side of the train with a single leaf door directly behind the operator. This allowed him/her to view the platform for closing the doors and collecting fares at night. This is why the operators position is on the left side as opposed to the right side which is standard north American practice. I believe all the single unit cars have either been retired or converted into "married pairs" with other singles. The PATCO magnetic fare card system was chosen after the cars were ordered. The Lindenwold station is a transfer station with the NJT Atlantic City line. This station see heavy usage by the gambling crowd and beach goers during the summer months. PATCO's shops are also located at Lindenwold. Back in the 80's a set of the old Bridge Line cars were stored at the shops. I don't know if they're still there or not. Over the years there have been plans to extend to PATCO line under the river to 30th street and the University of PA. Don't hold your breathe on this one. And finally the cars as built used to have a great "Rail Fan Window" (RFW) seat at the front. When the cars were rebuilt full width cabs were installed.
@@Thom-TRA I can't remember if WAMTA has a "rain mode" for their ATO or not. You might want to check out how the train is run above ground next time it rains in DC.
@@Thom-TRA Thanks. I realized that just after I hit the reply button. I grew up in the DC area and remember back in the 80's and 90's all the operator had to do was open and close the doors and press the start button. I have heard the Red line will be the first to get ATO operation back. BTW - I forgot to mention back in my original post about the connection between Amtrak at Septa at 30th street. This underground connection built as part of the construction of 30th street back in the 1930's was closed in the 80's due to crime and maintenance issues. Both Septa and Amtrak claimed it was the other operators responsibility to police and maintain the passageway. If you go to the southwest corner of 30th street you can see in the floor where Amtrak blocked off the stairs leading down to the passageway. There are plans to reopen this link though I'm not sure if it's part of the ongoing refresh of 30th street.
I use this line every day to get from Lindenwold to Philly. Comfortable, quick, and remarkably cheap. The stations on the Jersey side seem much better kept than the Philly side for whatever reason. Can't wait for Franklin Square to open!
The Benjamin Franklin Bridge was designed in the 1920s by Paul Philippe Cret, who was educated at Lyon's École des Beaux-Arts and migrated from France to the US to teach at UPenn, who was also the architect of the National Memorial Arch at Valley Forge in the 1910s, DC's Duke Ellington Bridge, DC's Eccles Building and UT Austin's Tower in Texas in the 1930s, and DC's Pan American Union Building in the 1900s. Plans for a bridge to augment the ferries across the Delaware River began as early as 1818, when one plan envisioned using Smith Island, a narrow island off the Philadelphia shore that was removed in 1893. The bridge was dedicated as part of the 1926 Sesquicentennial Exposition, celebrating the 150th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. From 1926 to 1929, it had the longest single span of any suspension bridge in the world. Besides Cret as supervising architect, the chief engineer of the bridge was Polish-born Ralph Modjeski and the design engineer was Leon Moisseiff. Leon became known for his work on "deflection theory," which held that the longer bridges were, the more flexible they could be. Charles Alton Ellis elaborated on Moisseiff's theories, and applied them in the design of the famed Golden Gate Bridge. Moisseiff served as a consulting engineer on the bridge. However, Moisseiff designed the original the Tacoma Narrows Suspension Bridge in 1940, the first bridge that he designed as the leading engineer. He lost his strong reputation when this narrow span across the Puget Sound in Washington State collapsed in a windstorm four months after it opened. In 1950, another bridge was built to replace it.
Not doing more with PATCO (taking it past the Schuylkill on the PA side, building the other two planned NJ branches) is one of the most criminal missed opportunities in public transit.
add on the Roosevelt blvd subway to that list. Patco also had a plan for a diesel version of the Glassboro line and a LRV line along Delaware ave. None of them happening any time soon
Patco was the last word in rapid transit lines when it opened. In fact, the original plan called for a network of Patco trains to other points in south Jersey, notably Glassboro and Mt Holly, all merging at Broadway for the hop over to Philly. Sadly, those plans never materialized (think Roosevelt Blvd subway?) due largely to money. So Patco today is limited to just one line. Philly's long range plan suggests an extension from 16th street to the Penn University and medical complex to provide direct access to major employment centers; my suggestion is to re-connect the Broad-Ridge line and run them both out there. But I'm not holding my breath. BTW, Franklin Square is still not open yet
I grew up in Camden New Jersey and I would be on the Patco speed line almost every day. My stop was Ferry ave in Camden. I would ride it as a kid to Philly by myself at 10 years old. Now I live in Philly and have used all the lines, including Patco to get around for years when I don’t feel like driving
I agree that 30th Street Station is absolutely a breathtaking station, definitely one of my top favorites in the US among Grand Central Terminal, Hoboken Terminal, and DC Union Station! 30th Street Station was designed by Graham, Anderson, Probst & White, a Chicago firm that was the successor to Daniel Burnham's firm. Thus besides 30th Street in Philly, they worked on many Chicago icons like the Wrigley Building, Merchandise Mart, Field Museum, Shedd Aquarium, and the Civic Opera House! They helped complete Chicago Union Station as well to finish a design that began under Burnham's firm. They also worked on Philly's Suburban Station and Cleveland's Terminal Tower. The sculpture you showed at 4:27 is called the Angel of the Resurrection, portraying Michael the Archangel lifting up the soul of a dead soldier from the flames of war. It commemorates the 1,307 Pennsylvania Railroad employees who died in World War II and was sculpted by Walker Hancock in 1952! At Lindenwold, there's a connection with the Atlantic City Line! After Conrail took over South Jersey rail services in 1976 (which also included Ocean City and Cape May) and NJDOT ceased these services in 1981, Amtrak and NJT struck a deal where the main line to Atlantic City would be upgraded by Amtrak, Amtrak would run an Atlantic City Express to AC from places like NYC, Philly, and DC, while also building commuter stations for a NJT service on the line. The line reopened in 1989, and during this time, NJT rail service was between Lindenwold and Atlantic City. After Amtrak discontinued the AC Express in 1995, NJT extended its service from Lindenwold to Philadelphia.
I was going to maybe ride the Atlantic City line last time I was in Philly, but the schedules lined up so that I would have spent most of the day doing that…
thanks for talking about PATCO :D it's such a cool line with beautiful trains and incredible views over the Delaware. A wonderful asset for our city. Hopefully someday the Port Authority has the sense to expand the system to its initially proposed scope and get South Jersey covered with high quality rail transit.
I loved that you walked right past a BofA atm whille you were talking about how far you have to go for an ATM! I much prefer manually operated trains. Not based on safety or anything, but it feels more like a train than a conveyer belt in my mind
Interesting note-PATCO started after BART but opened earlier. Why? Because it focused on using state-of-the-art best practices rather than introducing massive new technological innovations. BART was forced to accept cutting edge technology as a prerequisite for federal aid (this being the 1960s when the planning began, and a desire to be high-tech and futuristic was annoyingly pervasive), which PATCO didn't receive. This has also helped PATCO in the long run, as its systems have proven relatively easy to update, while BART (and the Morgantown People Mover) have massive issues with dated technology.
As someone who used to live in Philly (briefly) and took this train semi-regularly, it was jarring to go to Collingswood and Haddonfield after seeing Camden, Kensington and parts of West Philly.
I love that the Riverline finally made an interchange in Pennsauken, NJ to switch to the Atlantic City Line which also goes into Philadelphia. Back in 2015 going home from a doctor in Philly, I made a switch there at Pennsauken to the Riverline.
LMAO - Bunnies... that was my highlight.. You are insanely knowledgable on US rail systems, both historically and travel wise. Thanks heaps for the hard work.
30th st station DID connect with the 30th street El stop once upon a time, but they closed the pedestrian tunnel due to crime in the 80s due to crime. There's constant talks about reopening it but it never happens.
@@Thom-TRA Wikipedia says in the section about the current work they’re doing there funded by the infrastructure bill, that there aren’t plans to connect the two. I’d love for that to be wrong!
Glad your paco ride was so soft. We went from far NE Philadelphia to AC NJ . I felt the train was going to fall apart ! The trip was not boring ! Cell phones were a new thing . I called home to Philly from the board walk at AC NJ to see if the call would reach . It did . your ride took me back many moons ago ! Good flick !
Your historical route diagrams always come in useful! I rode PATCO between Center City and Haddonfield, which definitely includes 65 MPH-rated segments. The acceleration and cruising at the top speed was a marvel by rapid transit standards! The whirring of the motors is so satisfying!
Riding the patco made me so MAD. Seeing that small towns can get 24 hour frequent service made me very irritated with the situation out in places like California (where I live).
I grew up in philly. I use to hooky school and ride the Broad street subway all day. At Girard ave. I notice a train waiting when my local would pull in. I went to investigate and it was the Ridge Ave. line. I got on and was shocked when i came above ground and started climbing the Ben Franklin bridge. In Camden N.J. it went back underground, and ended 2 stations later. Eventually those tracks become the PATCO high sped line that is featured in this story.
@@Thom-TRA I use to ide the BS subway the entire length fom Snyde Ave. to olney ave.when I was going to Cental high at olney and Ogontz ave. I use to walk the tacks fom Olney to Erie ave.😁
Great video! Couple of thoughts: - You no longer need a SEPTA Key card for MFL, BSL, NHSL, trolleys, or busses, you can tap any credit card or Apple/Google Pay. The fare is still the discounted $2 and it includes up to 2 transfers within 2 hours if you use the same payment method (not to PATCO because that’s a different system) - re: poop I believe that station you entered at has the unfortunate distinction of having a mezzanine partly controlled by the City for some reason. Draw your own conclusions there
While the views aren't nearly as nice, the pedestrian subway in Center City Philadelphia is an pretty cool walk. There are also some historic artifacts down there like ancient Regional Rail maps and a shopping mall. You can walk from 15th Street under Market to 8th, and under Broad Street all the way to South Street (I think). It's still not a free transfer, but you never have to see daylight to transfer between the 4 underground transit lines (MFL, BSL, Subway/Surface Trolley, PATCO).
It's not a cool as you think. I know exactly the entrace that Thom filmed entering 15th/16th & Locust station. It is the stairwell @ the NW corner of 16th & Locust. There is a 180 degree turn at the landing - meaning that you can't see anything further until you turn this corner. I know several people that have been physically accosted there recently by vagrants, and I'm surprised that he didn't have the same experience. NOTE: Transfering passengers can no longer access the SEPTA Walnut-Locust station by walking underground from the area adjacent to the PATCO station. PATCO fenced off it's section of the concourse due to security concerns. To transfer between PATCO and the SEPTA Broad Street Line services (now identified as B1 & B2), you have to exit to the street and walk on the surface
Great video on the Patco Speedline. I live in northern NJ so I've never ridden this, but I did look into this line before when considering a move and job opportunity in southern NJ
I hope modern CBTC signalling and walk-through trains can be introduced. And maybe introduce a Metro Trains Melbourne idea-CBTC as a driver assist to help them stop in the right spot without needing to do it automatically
I used to ride the Bridge Line, as we called it before PATCO. It only had two stops, City Hall-Camden and Broadway, the end of the line. A transfer from the Philly subway system plus a token ( two for 5 cents) was required. That was in 1965. The fact that PATCO runs 24/7 is GREAT! I live about four miles from the Lindenwold Station so I always use the train when I have to go into Philly.
After seeing the MBTA comment I just have to say: it is very cool that the T goes to providence. The MBTA has also tried for many years to make a line which goes to Manchester NH. However, the proposal is repeatedly rejected by the New Hampshire government. If it got accepted though, it would be the third rail line in NH which is funded by a separate government. The Downeaster and Vermonter are funded by Maine and Vermont respectively. The Downeaster must go through NH to reach Maine and the Vermonter has one stop (which is for some reason) in NH, but the whole line runs on the border.
I really love your videos and I used to build passenger rail cars when I worked for The Budd Company in Philadelphia. I would really love for you to do some more videos of these cars and how many are still in service. At one time in history we built the best rail cars…
@@Thom-TRA Sandag, our planning agency, and the company they are partnering with to study it, Cordova, are both optimistic. They are pitching it as a way to increase border capacity as it would make another border crossing in function.
Also this is dependent on a new san ysidro station, which will have 3 tracks and be elevated, they are considering either a shuttle service or a full service to tijuana, issues are some things in mexican law when it comes to railroads
Excellent research, information and storytelling! Glad you covered a transit system that I have ridden, but never knew much about it. It has always felt old and slow, but safe, reliable and a system you knew would get you there.
Great narrative. and good knowledge of the history of Patco. Only thing to add would be more shots of the view crossing the river. It's really too bad Patco never carried through on its original plan to add other branches to the system and in effect replace the old railroad lines.
@@Thom-TRA yep, very enjoyable; and you are quite an expert, especially on something as complex as the Patco history. I might add that the Locust street tunnel was originally designed as part of a downtown "subway loop" There is a partly built "ghost subway" under Arch street that was never finished.
As a Philly (Delco) lifer, I seem to remember this being referred to as " Lindenworld High Speed Line" in my youth ( ima old) ,but in more recent times as "Patco". but I never rode.
I was a Center City resident until 1987. Used PATCO to visit my aunt near Haddonfield. Latter we took PATCO to Lindenwold then caught a train to Atlantic City.
I thought the worst thing anybody would have to deal with in any rapid transit station would be what smells like panther piss. I smelled what smelled like that in a stairwell in a Metra station in downtown Chicago.
@@Thom-TRA oh, I don’t know. I had a friend in college who made that remark about panther piss when we got back to our dorm after some partying we’d been doing one night. I mean the stairway DID smell like piss but his reference to panther piss just sounded too good not to stick with me all these years.
Great video! Lived near one of the stations in Philly back in the day. Great news about the Franklin Square station! Maybe that will make it an alternative for intra city trips in Philly. I could see going from Rittenhouse square over to Chinatown using it.
Thank you for this wonderful video ! I rode that route about 10 years ago, all the way to Lindenwold. I agree with all that you say, and really thought the cars were very comfortable, and nicely maintained. Fortunately I didn’t have your experience on entering the PATCO station ! I look forward to your ride from Trenton to NYC, and hope you ride in a bi-level service which give a great ride, and splendid views !
Years ago, an Amtrak rider getting out at 30 St. could get a free ride on SEPTA to Suburban Station. If that is still so, and maybe includes a ride to Jefferson Station, it would be an alternative to taking the Market St. subway.
It's so crazy that you saw a human turs at a Patco station because the only time I've ever seen one that I didn't create was at the Patco station in Lindenwald
So last week I was in the area to see the Battleship Nea Jersey be moved so we went to Philly For lunch. We wound up walking one to stop up to City Hall because we couldn’t figure out where to enter in at the Broadway stop.
8:15 you got the full PATCO experience, a pocket full of Sacajawea dollars! In the future (as mentioned in a reply elsewhere) they're aiming to use TVMs which can dispense bills. They'll also have a contactless trip card, so I guess there will be an opportunity for another neat collector's item. Thanks for featuring South Jersey's dependable little transit line!
as someone who lives and works in SNJ in a supermarket, I can always tell if one of our cashiers got someone who rode the train. dollar coins are common change from ticket machines, Metro-North issued them too when I lived up that way.
The stations in Center City were, I believe, originally intended to be on a balloon loop that would have returned to the Broad line after going to Suburban Station, and would have been operated as part of the Broad line
I enjoyed riding patco for the first time a few months ago. My only complaints were the low frequency on sundays and lack of schedule/ticket coordination with the river line.
The official name for the PATCO line was "Lindenwald-Philadelphia Hi-Speed Line". We all called it the Lindenwold Line. In the early ‘70s when I first rode it compared to the El (which is what Philadelphians call the Market-Frankford Subway Elevated Line) it seemed truly space aged. It was fast, quiet and had automated announcements which are commonplace today. I was fortunate to lead a tour of the entire facility including the main control building and shops. At the shops there was a train of PRSL RDCs operated by Conrail idling. Haven’t been back to Philly in 40 years but I still have a PATCO time-table from 1976, the Bicentennial Year. The fare was $.90 to Lindenwold.
Vancouver also sometimes has manual operators, albeit much more rarely. I remember a video somewhere during a rare major PNW snowstorm and there was someone manually operating the Skytrain
I recall a few times riding New Jersey Transit's Atlantic City Line which runs parallel to the PATCO Line around Lindenwold . If you're lucky, you'll get to race PATCO along the way 😁
It’s safer, it’s less prone to errors, you can run more trains on one line, and you can have consistent train service even if the labor market is tight. Do you know how many trains were cancelled in Europe the past few years because they couldn’t find enough drivers?
Still….driverless system are more “dead” than staffed ones. And when errors occur, and there are errors on driverless systems, I know as I ride the toy-like København Metro, they can be major. Delays, accidents and so on. And yes, train personnel go on strike now and then, in most of Europe you have the right to do so (at least for now) and they probably have reasons to do that. High frequency timetables often create half empty trains and that’s not so environmentally friendly. No, I don’t know how many trains that was cancelled due to shortage of drivers but its to bad if enough people aren’t fit for that job. But it’s still a lost job opportunity. Thank you for your answer.
Good vid covering PATCO. Can't wait for your NJT RiverLine video. I use those 2 to go into Philly. When I can't get the SEPTA Regional Rail at Trenton.
Correct, that's Bernie Wagenblast. She also recently came out as a trans woman last year. In addition to the AirTrains, she also did the station announcements for MTA (arriving trains, "Stand clear...")
NJ is probably one of the only states that doesn’t have a major city in the state, it’s really only popular because of its location to other metro areas, otherwise it’d just be a bunch of farmland
Path is a commuter rail. While it does look like a metro/rapid transit, by definition it transports people from the suburbs to Jersey city and New York City
It’s legally classified as a commuter rail because it shares a bridge with FRA-compliant tracks. By your definition of commuter rail, practically every subway and light rail in the country would be one.
I never knew that Philadelphia has a metro system until now and I'm watching from London. There is a blink and you'll miss it moment in the video that one can see the poop on the right side of the stairs of the station before he went to the ATM so walking past it 3 times must of been bad. I'm surprised that nobody left some chunky soup (vomit) there too as the smell is bound to make someone sick.
Very interesting stuff (apart from the... crappy situation at 15/16th str station). I assume its Level 2 Grade of automation. Semi automatic with a driver still present to engage the systems. The S-train system in my home city of Copenhagen was just upgraded to this standard not that long ago, though of course with more modern CBTC systems and it has improved reliability immensely. Though the S-train itself is old, around the same age as the original bridge line, the systems 90th anniversary is next week. But the Patco Speedline feels really comparable to the S-trains here in a lot of ways.
@@Thom-TRA I’m one of your biggest fans too man, thanks for shedding light on such an important thing and spreading awareness of the benefits/usefulness of rail (and other active forms) of transit! :]
So if you go to an ear doctor, get them to do a cleaning, come back, and watch the video again, you’ll be surprised to hear I actually said *_”one of_* the most beautiful.”
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
I lived in Lindenwold from 1985 until 1996 and used PATCO to commute to my job with Amtrak at 30th street station. Here's a few facts about PATCO.
PATCO was planned to be a three branch system. In addition to the main branch to Lindenwold two other lines were planned. One would run north to the Moorestown area and the other would run south towards the Glassboro area. In your video at the 11:30 mark you can see the ramp that was built for these two lines to diverge from the main line. There is talk of a light rail line south towards Glassboro that would be an extension of the River line and not PATCO.
You mentioned the operators having to run the trains in manual mode during wet track conditions. This is because the braking distance setup in ATO mode causes the trains to slide by the stations in rain, snow and ice.
When PATCO was being planned the stations would have manned ticket booths to sell tickets and collect fares. These booths would only be open during daylight hours. At night the train operators would collect fares. In order to do this a small number of single cars were ordered. The operators position was placed on the left side of the train with a single leaf door directly behind the operator. This allowed him/her to view the platform for closing the doors and collecting fares at night. This is why the operators position is on the left side as opposed to the right side which is standard north American practice. I believe all the single unit cars have either been retired or converted into "married pairs" with other singles. The PATCO magnetic fare card system was chosen after the cars were ordered.
The Lindenwold station is a transfer station with the NJT Atlantic City line. This station see heavy usage by the gambling crowd and beach goers during the summer months. PATCO's shops are also located at Lindenwold. Back in the 80's a set of the old Bridge Line cars were stored at the shops. I don't know if they're still there or not.
Over the years there have been plans to extend to PATCO line under the river to 30th street and the University of PA. Don't hold your breathe on this one.
And finally the cars as built used to have a great "Rail Fan Window" (RFW) seat at the front. When the cars were rebuilt full width cabs were installed.
This is all great information! Thank you!
@@Thom-TRA I can't remember if WAMTA has a "rain mode" for their ATO or not. You might want to check out how the train is run above ground next time it rains in DC.
I'm not sure if WMATA's ATO is up and running yet.
@@Thom-TRA Thanks. I realized that just after I hit the reply button. I grew up in the DC area and remember back in the 80's and 90's all the operator had to do was open and close the doors and press the start button. I have heard the Red line will be the first to get ATO operation back.
BTW - I forgot to mention back in my original post about the connection between Amtrak at Septa at 30th street. This underground connection built as part of the construction of 30th street back in the 1930's was closed in the 80's due to crime and maintenance issues. Both Septa and Amtrak claimed it was the other operators responsibility to police and maintain the passageway. If you go to the southwest corner of 30th street you can see in the floor where Amtrak blocked off the stairs leading down to the passageway. There are plans to reopen this link though I'm not sure if it's part of the ongoing refresh of 30th street.
@@erichhouchens3711 no worries, they’re bringing back ATO this year hopefully! The red line already has automated doors again, finally.
Another fun fact: the voice of the announcements is also the voice of AirTrain Newark and one of the voices of the NYC subway. That would be me.
I hear you!
Really? That’s cool! I think I saw a video about you recently.
off all the people I expected to comment under a PATCO video, THE Bernie Wagenblast was not one of them!
@@stephensaines7100 Bernie Wagenblast.
Holy shit, it’s you. You are really cool, and i’m so happy that you’re living as your true self now.
The retro-futuristic rail transit America never got.
I mean, America got BART and the DC Metro...
@@Thom-TRA don't forget MARTA!
I use this line every day to get from Lindenwold to Philly. Comfortable, quick, and remarkably cheap. The stations on the Jersey side seem much better kept than the Philly side for whatever reason. Can't wait for Franklin Square to open!
I hope that WMATA can turn on their automated trains again.
They're working on it!
The Benjamin Franklin Bridge was designed in the 1920s by Paul Philippe Cret, who was educated at Lyon's École des Beaux-Arts and migrated from France to the US to teach at UPenn, who was also the architect of the National Memorial Arch at Valley Forge in the 1910s, DC's Duke Ellington Bridge, DC's Eccles Building and UT Austin's Tower in Texas in the 1930s, and DC's Pan American Union Building in the 1900s. Plans for a bridge to augment the ferries across the Delaware River began as early as 1818, when one plan envisioned using Smith Island, a narrow island off the Philadelphia shore that was removed in 1893. The bridge was dedicated as part of the 1926 Sesquicentennial Exposition, celebrating the 150th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. From 1926 to 1929, it had the longest single span of any suspension bridge in the world.
Besides Cret as supervising architect, the chief engineer of the bridge was Polish-born Ralph Modjeski and the design engineer was Leon Moisseiff. Leon became known for his work on "deflection theory," which held that the longer bridges were, the more flexible they could be. Charles Alton Ellis elaborated on Moisseiff's theories, and applied them in the design of the famed Golden Gate Bridge. Moisseiff served as a consulting engineer on the bridge. However, Moisseiff designed the original the Tacoma Narrows Suspension Bridge in 1940, the first bridge that he designed as the leading engineer. He lost his strong reputation when this narrow span across the Puget Sound in Washington State collapsed in a windstorm four months after it opened. In 1950, another bridge was built to replace it.
I love the Duke Ellington bridge! Especially the bus stop with the mural of all the presidents next to it.
Not doing more with PATCO (taking it past the Schuylkill on the PA side, building the other two planned NJ branches) is one of the most criminal missed opportunities in public transit.
add on the Roosevelt blvd subway to that list. Patco also had a plan for a diesel version of the Glassboro line and a LRV line along Delaware ave. None of them happening any time soon
Patco was the last word in rapid transit lines when it opened. In fact, the original plan called for a network of Patco trains to other points in south Jersey, notably Glassboro and Mt Holly, all merging at Broadway for the hop over to Philly. Sadly, those plans never materialized (think Roosevelt Blvd subway?) due largely to money. So Patco today is limited to just one line. Philly's long range plan suggests an extension from 16th street to the Penn University and medical complex to provide direct access to major employment centers; my suggestion is to re-connect the Broad-Ridge line and run them both out there. But I'm not holding my breath. BTW, Franklin Square is still not open yet
I grew up in Camden New Jersey and I would be on the Patco speed line almost every day. My stop was Ferry ave in Camden. I would ride it as a kid to Philly by myself at 10 years old. Now I live in Philly and have used all the lines, including Patco to get around for years when I don’t feel like driving
I agree that 30th Street Station is absolutely a breathtaking station, definitely one of my top favorites in the US among Grand Central Terminal, Hoboken Terminal, and DC Union Station! 30th Street Station was designed by Graham, Anderson, Probst & White, a Chicago firm that was the successor to Daniel Burnham's firm. Thus besides 30th Street in Philly, they worked on many Chicago icons like the Wrigley Building, Merchandise Mart, Field Museum, Shedd Aquarium, and the Civic Opera House! They helped complete Chicago Union Station as well to finish a design that began under Burnham's firm. They also worked on Philly's Suburban Station and Cleveland's Terminal Tower. The sculpture you showed at 4:27 is called the Angel of the Resurrection, portraying Michael the Archangel lifting up the soul of a dead soldier from the flames of war. It commemorates the 1,307 Pennsylvania Railroad employees who died in World War II and was sculpted by Walker Hancock in 1952!
At Lindenwold, there's a connection with the Atlantic City Line! After Conrail took over South Jersey rail services in 1976 (which also included Ocean City and Cape May) and NJDOT ceased these services in 1981, Amtrak and NJT struck a deal where the main line to Atlantic City would be upgraded by Amtrak, Amtrak would run an Atlantic City Express to AC from places like NYC, Philly, and DC, while also building commuter stations for a NJT service on the line. The line reopened in 1989, and during this time, NJT rail service was between Lindenwold and Atlantic City. After Amtrak discontinued the AC Express in 1995, NJT extended its service from Lindenwold to Philadelphia.
I was going to maybe ride the Atlantic City line last time I was in Philly, but the schedules lined up so that I would have spent most of the day doing that…
@@Thom-TRA Hope you get to do it someday in the future.
I am glad things lined up so that I could see what Avery had to say about the wonderful 30th street station!
Great video it what REALLY would be great would be a ride over the entire Lindenwold line.
thanks for talking about PATCO :D it's such a cool line with beautiful trains and incredible views over the Delaware. A wonderful asset for our city. Hopefully someday the Port Authority has the sense to expand the system to its initially proposed scope and get South Jersey covered with high quality rail transit.
It would be nice if they could expand it into a larger network. And get some new trains.
I loved that you walked right past a BofA atm whille you were talking about how far you have to go for an ATM!
I much prefer manually operated trains. Not based on safety or anything, but it feels more like a train than a conveyer belt in my mind
I love the PATCO. Its so dependable and cheap! Never realized till I was older and went on other systems how lucky I am.
Really enjoy your historical research, graphics, and explanations in your videos. Absolutely awesome!!!
Thank you thank you!!
If I remember correctly those PATCO trains were air 😆😆conditioned.
Interesting note-PATCO started after BART but opened earlier. Why? Because it focused on using state-of-the-art best practices rather than introducing massive new technological innovations. BART was forced to accept cutting edge technology as a prerequisite for federal aid (this being the 1960s when the planning began, and a desire to be high-tech and futuristic was annoyingly pervasive), which PATCO didn't receive.
This has also helped PATCO in the long run, as its systems have proven relatively easy to update, while BART (and the Morgantown People Mover) have massive issues with dated technology.
also in its initial planning, Patco had to assert that it was running an urban rapid transit line, not a Railroad, subject to RR federal rules.
As someone who used to live in Philly (briefly) and took this train semi-regularly, it was jarring to go to Collingswood and Haddonfield after seeing Camden, Kensington and parts of West Philly.
Probably way more suburban
I love that the Riverline finally made an interchange in Pennsauken, NJ to switch to the Atlantic City Line which also goes into Philadelphia. Back in 2015 going home from a doctor in Philly, I made a switch there at Pennsauken to the Riverline.
The RiverLine is a great line! I have yet to ride the Atlantic City line.
LMAO - Bunnies... that was my highlight.. You are insanely knowledgable on US rail systems, both historically and travel wise. Thanks heaps for the hard work.
Thank you for the kind words! Drop another comment the next time you see a bunny :)
where did that bunny come from??? City Hall?
30th st station DID connect with the 30th street El stop once upon a time, but they closed the pedestrian tunnel due to crime in the 80s due to crime. There's constant talks about reopening it but it never happens.
I believe they’re actually building it again
@@Thom-TRA Wikipedia says in the section about the current work they’re doing there funded by the infrastructure bill, that there aren’t plans to connect the two. I’d love for that to be wrong!
Glad your paco ride was so soft. We went from far NE Philadelphia to AC NJ . I felt the train was going to fall apart ! The trip was not boring ! Cell phones were a new thing . I called home to Philly from the board walk at AC NJ to see if the call would reach . It did . your ride took me back many moons ago ! Good flick !
Riding on the Benjamin Franklin bridge at night offers a georgeous view
Oh I’m sure!
Your historical route diagrams always come in useful!
I rode PATCO between Center City and Haddonfield, which definitely includes 65 MPH-rated segments. The acceleration and cruising at the top speed was a marvel by rapid transit standards! The whirring of the motors is so satisfying!
Nothing more satisfying than traveling at high speed!
I actually clocked the Speedline at 65 MPH between Haddonfield and Woodcrest Station with an app on my smartphone
@@Thom-TRA that's why it's called "Patco high speed line" hahaha
Am I the only one who knows about this line only because I watched an Alan Fisher video about it?
Great video! I also learned that PATCO trains accelerate much faster than other mass transit systems.
It didn’t stand out to me when I was riding it but that’s probably because I was paying attention to other things!
Riding the patco made me so MAD. Seeing that small towns can get 24 hour frequent service made me very irritated with the situation out in places like California (where I live).
Oh yeah I bet! California has a ways to go, but seemingly they’re more willing to do it at this point than most places.
Never ridden the Lindewold line, but I'm a firm fan of their pre-PATCO rolling stock with their "Buck Rogers" look.
I grew up in philly. I use to hooky school and ride the Broad street subway all day. At Girard ave. I notice a train waiting when my local would pull in. I went to investigate and it was the Ridge Ave. line. I got on and was shocked when i came above ground and started climbing the Ben Franklin bridge. In Camden N.J. it went back underground, and ended 2 stations later. Eventually those tracks become the PATCO high sped line that is featured in this story.
Yeah it’s cool that they used to be interlined. Have you watched my Broad street subway video yet? You might like it!
@@Thom-TRA I use to ide the BS subway the entire length fom Snyde Ave. to olney ave.when I was going to Cental high at olney and Ogontz ave. I use to walk the tacks fom Olney to Erie ave.😁
Wow, nice video. This is my local transit system and is so convenient for me getting into the city and back.
I’m sure you use it a lot!
Great video! Couple of thoughts:
- You no longer need a SEPTA Key card for MFL, BSL, NHSL, trolleys, or busses, you can tap any credit card or Apple/Google Pay. The fare is still the discounted $2 and it includes up to 2 transfers within 2 hours if you use the same payment method (not to PATCO because that’s a different system)
- re: poop I believe that station you entered at has the unfortunate distinction of having a mezzanine partly controlled by the City for some reason. Draw your own conclusions there
While the views aren't nearly as nice, the pedestrian subway in Center City Philadelphia is an pretty cool walk. There are also some historic artifacts down there like ancient Regional Rail maps and a shopping mall. You can walk from 15th Street under Market to 8th, and under Broad Street all the way to South Street (I think). It's still not a free transfer, but you never have to see daylight to transfer between the 4 underground transit lines (MFL, BSL, Subway/Surface Trolley, PATCO).
It's not a cool as you think. I know exactly the entrace that Thom filmed entering 15th/16th & Locust station. It is the stairwell @ the NW corner of 16th & Locust. There is a 180 degree turn at the landing - meaning that you can't see anything further until you turn this corner. I know several people that have been physically accosted there recently by vagrants, and I'm surprised that he didn't have the same experience.
NOTE: Transfering passengers can no longer access the SEPTA Walnut-Locust station by walking underground from the area adjacent to the PATCO station. PATCO fenced off it's section of the concourse due to security concerns. To transfer between PATCO and the SEPTA Broad Street Line services (now identified as B1 & B2), you have to exit to the street and walk on the surface
Great video on the Patco Speedline. I live in northern NJ so I've never ridden this, but I did look into this line before when considering a move and job opportunity in southern NJ
Definitely go down and ride it if you get the chance!
thats super cool you keep the tickets as a souvenir
I hope modern CBTC signalling and walk-through trains can be introduced. And maybe introduce a Metro Trains Melbourne idea-CBTC as a driver assist to help them stop in the right spot without needing to do it automatically
I used to ride the Bridge Line, as we called it before PATCO. It only had two stops, City Hall-Camden and Broadway, the end of the line. A transfer from the Philly subway system plus a token ( two for 5 cents) was required. That was in 1965. The fact that PATCO runs 24/7 is GREAT! I live about four miles from the Lindenwold Station so I always use the train when I have to go into Philly.
When the conversion was complete, did you consider PATCO an improvement over the Bridge Line?
After seeing the MBTA comment I just have to say: it is very cool that the T goes to providence. The MBTA has also tried for many years to make a line which goes to Manchester NH. However, the proposal is repeatedly rejected by the New Hampshire government. If it got accepted though, it would be the third rail line in NH which is funded by a separate government. The Downeaster and Vermonter are funded by Maine and Vermont respectively. The Downeaster must go through NH to reach Maine and the Vermonter has one stop (which is for some reason) in NH, but the whole line runs on the border.
I dont think NJ could function without trains.
Most places can’t
It’s crazy how many similarities PATCO has with PATH
There are quite a few!
I really love your videos and I used to build passenger rail cars when I worked for The Budd Company in Philadelphia. I would really love for you to do some more videos of these cars and how many are still in service. At one time in history we built the best rail cars…
What part of the building process were you involved with?
san diego is planning on extending the blue line into downtown tijuana so that would be a first in north amreica, an international line
I’m curious how that would happen given the current political climate
@@Thom-TRA Sandag, our planning agency, and the company they are partnering with to study it, Cordova, are both optimistic. They are pitching it as a way to increase border capacity as it would make another border crossing in function.
Also this is dependent on a new san ysidro station, which will have 3 tracks and be elevated, they are considering either a shuttle service or a full service to tijuana, issues are some things in mexican law when it comes to railroads
Excellent research, information and storytelling! Glad you covered a transit system that I have ridden, but never knew much about it. It has always felt old and slow, but safe, reliable and a system you knew would get you there.
Great narrative. and good knowledge of the history of Patco. Only thing to add would be more shots of the view crossing the river. It's really too bad Patco never carried through on its original plan to add other branches to the system and in effect replace the old railroad lines.
People from Philadelphia call the Market-Frankford line the "El" because it is elevated except for the stops in center city, which are underground.
I knew that
in its new "re-branding" set up it will now just be labelled as "L" Go figure, it's Septa.
You have trains this early? My first to London is the 0525 (and this, but nothing until the 1003) is a super off-peak fare.
When I visited Philly in August, I somehow managed to pick a seat with no window going both ways over the Delaware
Oh that sucks lol
I lived in Camden for a few years and loved the Patco.
Hope you make it to Buffalo for the NFTA Metro Rail.
Someday!
amazing how much transit info you have accumulated. great job as usual
Thank you! It definitely takes up a lot of my brain space haha
@@Thom-TRA yep, very enjoyable; and you are quite an expert, especially on something as complex as the Patco history. I might add that the Locust street tunnel was originally designed as part of a downtown "subway loop" There is a partly built "ghost subway" under Arch street that was never finished.
As a Philly (Delco) lifer, I seem to remember this being referred to as " Lindenworld High Speed Line" in my youth ( ima old) ,but in more recent times as "Patco". but I never rode.
Thank You!
I was a Center City resident until 1987. Used PATCO to visit my aunt near Haddonfield. Latter we took PATCO to Lindenwold then caught a train to Atlantic City.
Good memories I’m sure!
I thought the worst thing anybody would have to deal with in any rapid transit station would be what smells like panther piss. I smelled what smelled like that in a stairwell in a Metra station in downtown Chicago.
How do you know specifically what panther urine smells like?
@@Thom-TRA oh, I don’t know. I had a friend in college who made that remark about panther piss when we got back to our dorm after some partying we’d been doing one night. I mean the stairway DID smell like piss but his reference to panther piss just sounded too good not to stick with me all these years.
Great video! Lived near one of the stations in Philly back in the day. Great news about the Franklin Square station! Maybe that will make it an alternative for intra city trips in Philly. I could see going from Rittenhouse square over to Chinatown using it.
A cheaper alternative too!
It would be nice if PATCO extends to Atlantic City on its east end & to 30th St station on its west end.
Definitely better than the current NJT line
Thank you for this wonderful video ! I rode that route about 10 years ago, all the way to Lindenwold. I agree with all that you say, and really thought the cars were very comfortable, and nicely maintained. Fortunately I didn’t have your experience on entering the PATCO station ! I look forward to your ride from Trenton to NYC, and hope you ride in a bi-level service which give a great ride, and splendid views !
Surprisingly, it was a single level train!
Years ago, an Amtrak rider getting out at 30 St. could get a free ride on SEPTA to Suburban Station. If that is still so, and maybe includes a ride to Jefferson Station, it would be an alternative to taking the Market St. subway.
I’ve heard of that but I’m not sure if it’s still the case
Septa still honors Amtrak tickets to Suburban, Jefferson and Penn Medicine Stations.
Thanks for the update!
8:44 had the ace train beep
I hope the speedline can get new open-gangway trains, maybe similar to DC's 8000 series or more hopefully Atlanta's CQ400
It's so crazy that you saw a human turs at a Patco station because the only time I've ever seen one that I didn't create was at the Patco station in Lindenwald
I’m not sure if I like that you added “that I didn’t create” 😂😂
So last week I was in the area to see the Battleship Nea Jersey be moved so we went to Philly For lunch. We wound up walking one to stop up to City Hall because we couldn’t figure out where to enter in at the Broadway stop.
Valid, sometimes it’s not always very clear
When I used to live in southern New Jersey, I used to take PATCO every day to get to work in center city Philly 😊I worked on 8th and Market
That’s a nice easy commute!
8:15 you got the full PATCO experience, a pocket full of Sacajawea dollars! In the future (as mentioned in a reply elsewhere) they're aiming to use TVMs which can dispense bills. They'll also have a contactless trip card, so I guess there will be an opportunity for another neat collector's item.
Thanks for featuring South Jersey's dependable little transit line!
Those coins came in handy! And I kept a few
as someone who lives and works in SNJ in a supermarket, I can always tell if one of our cashiers got someone who rode the train. dollar coins are common change from ticket machines, Metro-North issued them too when I lived up that way.
There you go, channeling your Canadian viewers with our "loonies". @@Thom-TRA
I still have my coins, they’re just too cool to use!
I really hope they integrate mobile pay on PATCO like they did on SEPTA
I wish they would just integrate both systems
@@Thom-TRA even better!
The stations in Center City were, I believe, originally intended to be on a balloon loop that would have returned to the Broad line after going to Suburban Station, and would have been operated as part of the Broad line
Yes, that is correct! The tunnel was built decades before it ever went into use.
Thanks, great video. I have to go down there and ride on it one of these days.
Let me know how it goes!
I enjoyed riding patco for the first time a few months ago. My only complaints were the low frequency on sundays and lack of schedule/ticket coordination with the river line.
I wish it would be integrated with SEPTA
The official name for the PATCO line was "Lindenwald-Philadelphia Hi-Speed Line". We all called it the Lindenwold Line. In the early ‘70s when I first rode it compared to the El (which is what Philadelphians call the Market-Frankford Subway Elevated Line) it seemed truly space aged. It was fast, quiet and had automated announcements which are commonplace today. I was fortunate to lead a tour of the entire facility including the main control building and shops. At the shops there was a train of PRSL RDCs operated by Conrail idling. Haven’t been back to Philly in 40 years but I still have a PATCO time-table from 1976, the Bicentennial Year. The fare was $.90 to Lindenwold.
Hey Thom I was wondering if you could review the Amtrak blue water
I’ve been on the blue water before but I haven’t done a review of it yet!
@@Thom-TRA I’ve heard it’s very beautiful is that true
Vancouver also sometimes has manual operators, albeit much more rarely. I remember a video somewhere during a rare major PNW snowstorm and there was someone manually operating the Skytrain
But do they ride along even when the train is in automatic mode?
@@Thom-TRAThat I’m not sure of. I’d need an actual Vancouverite to confirm that instead of it’s 3-hours-south neighbor 😁
@@Thom-TRANo. Skytrain is completely driverless.
I recall a few times riding New Jersey Transit's Atlantic City Line which runs parallel to the PATCO Line around Lindenwold . If you're lucky, you'll get to race PATCO along the way 😁
Best transit channel,
Thank you thank you
Thom suffers from 'Railfixation' No known cure. Only relief is to share experiences/thoughts with others on TH-cam :)
There's no known cure because no one has ever felt the need to find a cure!
Interesting documentary of the PATCO! 😎
Thanks!
What’s so great about automated rail (and driverless rail), it’s just one more lost job opportunity?
And driving train seems like a cool job.
It’s safer, it’s less prone to errors, you can run more trains on one line, and you can have consistent train service even if the labor market is tight. Do you know how many trains were cancelled in Europe the past few years because they couldn’t find enough drivers?
@@Thom-TRAomg the rail strikes in France are crazy 💀🇫🇷
Still….driverless system are more “dead” than staffed ones. And when errors occur, and there are errors on driverless systems, I know as I ride the toy-like København Metro, they can be major. Delays, accidents and so on.
And yes, train personnel go on strike now and then, in most of Europe you have the right to do so (at least for now) and they probably have reasons to do that.
High frequency timetables often create half empty trains and that’s not so environmentally friendly.
No, I don’t know how many trains that was cancelled due to shortage of drivers but its to bad if enough people aren’t fit for that job. But it’s still a lost job opportunity.
Thank you for your answer.
Great channel! I'm subscribing.
Thanks!
Patco Is Awesome Never Has Problems😊
I don't think anywhere never has problems but PATCO seemed pretty great
Good vid covering PATCO. Can't wait for your NJT RiverLine video. I use those 2 to go into Philly. When I can't get the SEPTA Regional Rail at Trenton.
Just a few more days!
For the announcements, is that the same guy who does the Newark and JFK AirTrain announcements?
Correct, that's Bernie Wagenblast. She also recently came out as a trans woman last year.
In addition to the AirTrains, she also did the station announcements for MTA (arriving trains, "Stand clear...")
You should go back when Franklin Square station opens this year
I’m thinking about it
Hi Thom, first time viewer here. Great video, you're a really enjoyable presenter. Will absolutely check out your other stuff!
Thank you, please do! Thanks for commenting too
I really love that there is a ton of transportation TH-cam pages now…and you all seem to live in the DMV…which is where I’m at! 😊
I've been on TH-cam for 9 years! I wonder who else lives in the DMV, I'd love to meet them
That Andy on Track guy who does all the Metro videos…those are SO good!!!
Oh I know him
@@Thom-TRA not surprised, you are two great transit content creators! 🫡
I used to live there, but now I live in Salt Lake City. Incidentally, TRA, great job covering the TRAX and S-Line.
Very cool
Super cool
Great video
Thank you!
"The Machine Will Not Take My Card, So i have to walk a decent chunk to an atm"
Continues To Walk By A Bank Of America
Why would I pay for fees at BOA when I can walk a few more blocks and visit Chase?
I’ve never even heard of this line it’s pretty cool though
Definitely worth checking out!
I do like dollar coins, I have a tubful. I bought some on eBay, plus the bus fare machines at the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco issue them.
I enjoyed this video but I really hope you’ll do one that’s PATCO only and goes all the way to Lindenwold.
Someday!
I can only hope so.
It's interesting how 2 of only 4 interstate metros are in New Jersey. Where would they be without their neighbors...
Haha very true!
NJ is probably one of the only states that doesn’t have a major city in the state, it’s really only popular because of its location to other metro areas, otherwise it’d just be a bunch of farmland
4:00 got me dying 😂😂
5:58 lmaooooo
People need to be told haha
It’s a METRO, but it serves the purpose of a commuter rail
I consider PATCO to be a more commuter rail-ish version of the PATH train.
Though technically PATH is the system that is legally classified as a commuter rail!
5:57 they say that philly is the armpit of America
Thanks
Thank you so much, that's very generous :) have a great day
Path is a commuter rail. While it does look like a metro/rapid transit, by definition it transports people from the suburbs to Jersey city and New York City
It’s legally classified as a commuter rail because it shares a bridge with FRA-compliant tracks. By your definition of commuter rail, practically every subway and light rail in the country would be one.
@@Thom-TRAI see. So there is more that is required than it just being a passenger train going from suburb to urban
Taking PATCO to RiverLine as a bridge is a genius move. You could stop at Newark and then take PATH next time? 😎
I never knew that Philadelphia has a metro system until now and I'm watching from London. There is a blink and you'll miss it moment in the video that one can see the poop on the right side of the stairs of the station before he went to the ATM so walking past it 3 times must of been bad. I'm surprised that nobody left some chunky soup (vomit) there too as the smell is bound to make someone sick.
SEPTA does as well from DE-PA-NJ
How did you manage to skip the entire introduction of the video?
Btw Parking is free if you use the train at all the suburban stations.
Very interesting stuff (apart from the... crappy situation at 15/16th str station). I assume its Level 2 Grade of automation. Semi automatic with a driver still present to engage the systems. The S-train system in my home city of Copenhagen was just upgraded to this standard not that long ago, though of course with more modern CBTC systems and it has improved reliability immensely. Though the S-train itself is old, around the same age as the original bridge line, the systems 90th anniversary is next week. But the Patco Speedline feels really comparable to the S-trains here in a lot of ways.
Yeah it really is like a very limited S-train.
Thanks for shouting out the StL Metro again.⚜️🥰 Great video as usual!
Gotta do StL’s biggest fan a solid every now and again
@@Thom-TRA I’m one of your biggest fans too man, thanks for shedding light on such an important thing and spreading awareness of the benefits/usefulness of rail (and other active forms) of transit! :]
“Philly 30th street is the most beautiful station” :LA union station has entered the chat
So if you go to an ear doctor, get them to do a cleaning, come back, and watch the video again, you’ll be surprised to hear I actually said *_”one of_* the most beautiful.”
Ohhhhhhhhhhh okay cause I guess the captions didn’t register “one of the most” sry bout that