@@LeMamourI used the g923 for about 8 months. By that time I knew I really wanted sim racing as a hobby, so started looking into direct drives. The g923 is around 2nm, the Simucube is 25nm. I usually use it at around 10-12nm now, but with all that overhead you maintain All the detail and never get a hint of clipping. It’s Brilliant. Well worth all the hours I put in at work to pay for it!
Love the content! I just got my alpha u coming from a csl elite id had for many years. The difference was scary!! I had to turn the ffb down so much. After getting the settings dialed racing has become so much more enjoyable. 1 thing everyone says is how easy it is to catch snap oversteer and can confirm its night and day how fast you can recegnize and correct!! If your thinking of buying just do it so worth it!!
I went from a g27 to a simagic alpha. And i don't think I'll be upgrading ever again. Wait to just get what you really really want. If you cry once you'll smile more.
Coming from a Logitech G27 to an Alpha Mini/GT-Neo/P1000F-2, I'm happy with my purchase. Here in New Zealand the Alpha base is $429 more than the mini, with the Alpha Ultimate being $790 more than the mini, so they were never in consideration by me. I'm happy with my purchase and am so far away from the limit of this wheelbase due to lack of talent. I've got plenty of room to grow. Great video.
@Man-Of-Sorrows-2056 Good points, I see why it works for you, so for myself persoanlly, what I lack in G-forces that we dont have (because we're not in real cars), I try to supplement my wheel with more force to help me imagine those huge loading forces. But at the end of the day it's all personal preference as FFB is such a "by feel" kinda thing :)
Def a bigger difference then people may think. Its very very hard to ever go back after trying a 20+nm wheelbase and thats not even about using it at 20nm. It just has a differenr and or better feeling.
th-cam.com/video/ISAlM5f5GIo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xR0JsxAhs2oCF_Nl Use TH-cam CC translation TO ENGLISH AND the spin tests at the end show no difference in speed between the U and Alpha. Finally some data for you to settle your mind In the spin test I slowed it down playback and the start time sync between the bases at high rotation degrees was not equal….. latency in the program running but it was so big in the initial start that is was not from the base but from software program that was running the test
@Max__apex yeah the ultimate isnt faster. We know this simagic has some magic where the mini, alpha and ultimate are all the same speed. But with the ultimate you can def feel that impact in said details of the cars. Its a bit more potent but of course if you never want to use more then 10nm go with the mini. Now with other wheelbase brands def differences between lower and higher nm wheelbases in there lineups. Its just a more potent dense feel to everything in the ultimate vs mini that's all. The stronger motor is felt as it should be. Some can't handle it some can. After about 9 months to a year on a dd of lowrr power most end up raising settings more and more. We adapt and things end up feeling lighter overtime.
Yeah, I was gonna say, this isn't really as prominent with Simagic, even boosted media pointed that out. There's just no real noticeable difference in slew rates across the bases when used at the same torque ratings. The only reason id suggest, that you're feeling more detail is you're running higher gain, but that's allowing you to never have to run into clipping as well. And yeah, you might not be using the full 20nm, but you probably are using more than 10nm too. I have no issues clipping on the Alpha and can't imagine running higher gain. The Alpha is incredibly strong already
I had Alpha for a couple years but after trying asetek invicta oh my God everything was better the fidelity feeling every bump and tire lock up and..., I had to sell the alpha and buy asetek Invicta@@FlaOrdone
No need just turn the alpha U down to 15nm in simpro but I do agree, I have a mini, I wanted an alpha and right now micro center has the alpha U for $50 more than the regular alpha and I’m considering the jump
@@Conway312 Wow, only $50 more? That's an amazing deal. I'm currently using the Alpha and am really happy with it, but man, if the U can be had for just $50 more than the regular Alpha right now, that's def the way to go. Maybe in 2 to 3 years I'll want some more Nm, and with the way competition is getting, we'll all be getting 30+nm wheelbases on the cheap soon enough. Slight exaggeration there, lol, but you know what I mean :)
First of all cheers love your content. I'm you a couple years back. I actually just upgraded from the t300 to the fanatech CSL DD with the boost kit and the CSL V2 pedals. Absolute game changer to me but I also am having the same issue needing to upgrade my rig as it's a bit too flexy. Congrats on the new wheelbase though.
I have someway similar upgrade from a logitech driving force gt (playstation 3)😅 to a thrustmaster tgt. Then the fanatec dd 8nm upgrade which was freaking awesome experience. And now moza r21 v2 which is too much for me, i think i only use about 14nm - 16nm which is great😁
@@lilmoesieable yeah after watching videos like this and saying comments like yours I definitely think I'm going to be able to get a good bit of use out of my current wheel before I feel the need to upgrade.
Mhm, same here, really good, though i can't use more then 12 nm, my armpits hurt with the Neo since the wheel is pretty light compared to the other Sim magic wheels.
@ I don’t run mine to clipping at 15nm. I leave the base at 15 nm then adjust iRacing ffb strength to my liking. Usually looks to be 10-12 nm fully loaded mid corner which is perfect because it still leaves headroom for curb strikes, rumble strips, road texture… It feels to me that 15 nm gives the right amount of strength with headroom for details.
I went from a DD Pro 8nm Fanatec to a Fanatec clubsport DD+ 15nm and it blew me away too. Big difference in details but in general using the whole 15nm(without clipping) is a bit much when trying to compete online, my sweet spot is probably 11-12nm. I think stronger bases is about the details. So a stronger base than 15nm could make sense but m very satisfied with what i got. I bought a LEOXZ QR2 adapter so i could use the GT Neo on my Fanatec base, Neo is a bloody good wheel 👍
I have gone from a Fanatec Clubsport to a Simagic Alpha 15nm wheel and can say it is night and day I was lucky as a few friends have the Simagic Alpha Mini and so I tried it and decided that the 15Nm would end up being a forever wheelbase as they also found the 10Nm a little lacking after a while like yourself I can honestly say it has made me more consistent from lap to lap and have zero regrets what so ever
Went from the CSL DD to Simagic Alpha. Night and day. Wanted to get out of the Fanatec ecosystem. Using the Gt Neo and Gt pro (k) wheel. Glad I switched.
I’m using tspc right now and considering an alpha. I’m still improving laptimes. Yet in terms of consistency I’m not quite sure if it’s the wheelbase or just my driving😅😅
Agreed with the “will it make you faster” discussion. Time on track is definitely the most significant factor. I think better gear makes that time on track more efficient.
I went 2.5 --> 8 --> 15 the latter being the Alpha. Very noticeable regards consistency & detail. I'm still not very good but at least I know I have the equipment to allow me to grow and improve.
Upgraded to the Alpha U from CSL DD 8nm. GT Neo just got me really fast so I watched a couple of your vids and read stuff to come to the conclusion that Simagic is the perfect price to performance manufacturer. And I am not slightly disappointed. Still getting used to the massive power and fidelity (360hz ffb). My first Formula races in iRacing felt like a cheat coming from the csl. It’s just like you can’t overdrive the car (easily). Thanks for your content! Looking forward to the new Simagic wheels with Maglink support. Then I will get another one as I love Simhub integration with the Neo for custom/car focussed RPM etc. cheers
I'm using the Alpha U and I love it. It almost feels like I have butt-kickers on my aluminum profile cockpit. I can literally feel the curb through my butt but not so much through my hands surprisingly. The slew rate that motor has is insane.
I hear what your saying about losing forces through your rig! It's imperative to have a strong, flex free rig if you want all the forces it has to offer. Otherwise you won't get the maximum out of it. When I first started I had a play seat bottom of the ladder cockpit which I actually broke due to heavy braking 😂.
I did have a cup of tea when I sat down to watch, so all good here. My wife bought me the Simagic Ultimate as a Christmas gift. She says I need to leave it in the box until then! But that's okay, because I need to build my Rig Metal Rig Plus before I mount that beast of a wheel base.
Interesting chat mate. I am using the Moza R9, and very happy with the shift from G29 to it and its properties in general, but I feel exactly you did; As if being held slightly back by the limit of torque and always on the verge of clipping in a lot of cars/corners too. Made me think once more about going with a higher torque base. Cheers!
One of the only problems with higher Nm wheels is once you get used to them and your arms dont ache after a race anymore.. then using a lesser Nm wheel is very pronounced imho
The higher torque wheels are really more about avoiding clipping during spikes and better responsiveness (slew rate) than running them at max torque. I have the SC2 Pro but probably run it at 50% or so.
@ Will do. I was supposed to buy the Alpha 15Nm but it was out of stock and my local simracing dealer here in Norway gave me a good deal on the alpha U :)
Let me know how you feel about the alpha U. I’m thinking of getting a club sport DD+ because my DD1 has an issue. Financially I would only spend money for a new wheel base if I go fanatec but if I go simagic I would spend a bit more money and it would take a little more time
I went from a thrustmaster ts-pc to a moza r16v2. The difference in tyre life on a long stint was massive. It definitely made me faster over a race distance
I'm going through the exact same dilima but with Fanatec. I have the CSL dd at 8nm peak force and I just moved it from a table mount to a rig and just like yours, it did give it that little bit of extra fidelity from the extra rigidity that was noticeable right away. Even still though, It's still not quite strong enough either and I would like to upgrade to the Clubsport DD+ at 15nm holding force and just better overall technology AND it just went on sale from $1,000 too $850 but I have already spent so much on black Friday this year getting a cockpit, inverted v3 pedals and OLED center monitor that I can't justify it at the moment lol. Plus like you said, with the cockpit upgrade and it feeling that much better, I can wait a little bit! Great video, glad I chose to click it, sub earned!
Thanks for this video. It came perfect timing for me as I'm literally about to purchase my first full sim rig and gear in the next two days. Black Friday deals are still happening in Australia for the products I want. It's good to hear your thoughts on having a solid sim rig (as I was contemplating building my own out of wood), and the strength of the Simagic wheel bases. I'll be certain to buy the Simagic Alpha now (currently 23% off in Aus) as I want to build a rig that I know I won't outgrow. And I'll put the money in and get myself a TrakRacer TR120 which looks to be very stable (especially with roughly 20% off! $$$). Thanks for your time and thoughts 😊
I have still a old momo racing wheel but orderd de simagic mini.. mayhe I am very crazy.. played couple of hours simracing and have a Motion rig build, implementing surge and active seatbelt now.. my load cell pedals arrived.. I am very excited when imam done and tuned in to play a race sim game basicly for the first time !
@ The first thing was the detail in the feedback. I was able to really feel the grip limits. I had to adjust and within a week I started getting better times. Also got the P2000 brakes. It was all a big adjustment but well worth it.
Buy once cry once,i went straight from g27 to osw (mige),and custom carbon wheel from a local modder. 7 years in,0 issues,i think it worth every penny.
Also I think when you get used to it in the long run the potential to become better will be there. It's just up to the individual and whether they have the time and will to become better
I like these videos where you talk over some racing footage in the background. I look forwards to upgrading to an Alpha Ultimate soon. I absolutely love my Simagic mini but I clip from time to time unfortunately.
I also switched from alpha mini to u and have done the same thing slowly increasing the max force. Been on 18nm for a few weeks now and I wish there was an easier way for me to make snaps and bumps/curbs go the full 23nm while having the tire and suspension load max at 18nm. I find having to fight the wheel a bit makes immersion better for me which in turn makes me drive better
I actually did go from a Moza R5 to an SC2 Pro, and yes I cut my lap times, for instance 3 full seconds plus on Suzuka in Super Formula. Because you can hold in a corner without it skipping or clipping, you trust the speed through the corners more. You can be on the edge more. It absolutely can make you faster if you let go of your old habits and build new feels. Also interestingly about the comment about SC2 and whether one can afford it, I may wind up going with a VNM 32 Nm soon. It’s less money than the SC2 Pro at 25 Nm, but now that I understand the servo low cog motor type more and how to actually use filters and EQ stuff and all that, I believe I would rather have the extra headroom of a 32 Nm than the name of a Simucube. I think the SC2 Pro is pretty great but there’s drawbacks too. And I think headroom may be more important when wheelbases are so closely matched in their other attributes. I’m suddenly using all 25 Nm with ease and when some cars or sims have a more defined return to center and you have to scrub that out with static force reduction or similar, suddenly those grabbing holding torque forces and details require more headroom.
@ Hahahaha, hardly buff. Arms like a guitar player/ gamer 🤣 Cars with modeled power steering and using that static force reduction to keep the rubber band effect down, and a little smoothing and suddenly holding that torque isn’t really that much torque. Ive come to believe this is the real benefit of headroom in a wheelbase. The ability to even further fine tune what you want out of it. I don’t know much about the cars modeling in these games, but it seems when it’s a car with power steering and good suspension it eats up a lot of those dynamics. To get those back you need that headroom. The same 12 Nm in an Indy Car is a lot different than in a BMW Hybrid. In my experience anyway. I’m still learning more about this though. In my Moza R5 just maxing it out covered everything. There’s far more nuance to it than that I’m finding.
Had the same "eureka" experience twice with my csl dd 8nm when I: - Bought metal QR for my wheels (plastic wheel is a scam, so I will never buy a fanatec anymore - you are buying something that doesn't wor kas intended) - Switched from playseat challenge to playseat trophy Because of those 2 jumps, I put away buying a new wheelbase, but I finally did it - Simagic Alpha. Comparing to the previous jumps - it's not that big. It's still great an 100% worth it, but if you alreadyhave 8-10nm wheelbase, a wobbly rig or plastic toy QR (coz you were scammed as I were) - fix these things first. It's much cheaper and will give you the edge for another half/one year
I gave up a 22Nm servo motor years ago to go real car racing and went back to CSL then CSL DD and I DO need more torque for added effort and that very desired overhead to feel everything that you can. 8Nm is not enough when you start to get serious again, at least for a non alien.
When in a race, smooth wheel inputs are important. If you have to muscle a high NM wheel setup, how can you be smooth with wheel inputs ? I have a OSW setup with small mige motor and i tend to keep NM on the low end. So, whats the more important in a race, smooth wheel inputs, or brute force feeling ? I like to hear so feed please. Thanks
Good points! Your deffiantley right, but I see your saying, the lighter = the easier it is to be smooth, that is true, but for me (personally) the lighter the wheel the easier it is to make an incorrect move, even if it's smooth, so I like my car to feel like it's on a rail, or a train track, and it's very very obvious when it's falling off it, for me, that's higher nm of torque, nothing crazy, and I'm still learning but I deffinatley use 11-13+ nm and that seems to be my sweet spot, but you are right, too strong and it's hard to smooth. I will say there is a way to have the best of both worlds, you can have a very heavy wheel, and make it smooth with effects, so there is a way to achieve both, but I like a lively jumpy wheel! I think its more fun! Thanks so much for watching and taking the time to comment!
I have a 8nm dd pro ,ps5 I’m not sure if it’s even running at this. It’s roughly set so I can use it without changing parameters.just built an omega prime lite R and R9 chair. There should be a law that stops over 60s getting any where near nuts ,bolts,and Allen keys.
@@infernoCBR Indeed. I ll be happy anyway, my T300 runs at 45% because of FFB fade. Even with 45%, it happens after 30 mins... No dust on the motor either. Might just screw it fully open and run another fan on it directly.
i went from a t300 to asetek forte. i was looking to get the alpha mini but the asetek xmas sales put the forte at almost the same price. glad i did now with the alpha evo range coming out and finding out what features i have that the aalpha range misses out on.
@@JACKZERYT Nice! I've been using it for about 3 months now and have been really happy with it. It's my first ever wheelbase, so I don't have anything else to compare it to. But I do know that I've landed on the strength that I like (took a while), and I still have plenty of headroom to spare in all titles. But, considering how great of deals they're offering, I still may consider the U at some point down the road during the holiday sales. Keep that slip angle slippin', the rev meter revving, and I'll see you out on track!
I have an un-unboxed Alpha U + FX non-pro here since BF, and I can't get myself to open it... After hearing this, I think today will be the day that I pull the trigger and just do it. yolo^^
I’ve just gone from a 8 NM belt base to the 15 NM Alpha. It’s set to 70% and that’s enough tbh. I’m not sure what a 23 NM upgrade would do as the max is way higher than is comfortable to race with.
Depends on the car and simulator. With a 16Nm base i get clipping sometimes with some cars even when i put the in game FFB strength at 50%. And for those cars its not enough for me.
@@TheInsaiyanI’d say it depends on the driver. I’m nearly 60 years old and not the specimen I used to be. Four hours at 100% would be very tough for me.
I was using moza R12 it was ok. I was looking at the same Simagic as you then 3 year Asetek sale I got the asetek forte with quick release and free Pagani huyara pedals for close to $900. Asetek is unbelievable
I have someway similar upgrade from a logitech driving force gt (playstation 3)😅 to a thrustmaster tgt. Then the fanatec dd 8nm upgrade which was freaking awesome experience. And now moza r21 v2 which is too much for me, i think i only use about 14nm - 16nm which is great😁
I use la prima, 50-60% NM. I don’t see myself using more strength I become slow but never say never. A question how do yoU measure NM in iracing in%? For example I use 7 for gt3 and 12.5 in f1600 while wheelbase is 12NM max.
Question for you Jack: I have the 12nm Clubsport DD and while the torque is more than I need, I still can't find the fine details in the road I'm looking for. Especially the front tires losing grip on iRacing on RWD cars. Would a higher nm base give me more of that detail, or is the wheel simply harder to turn. I know the iRacing GT3's aren't really connected to the road that well anyway, but I would seriously spend the money on the Alpha or Alpha Ultimate if I knew for sure I'd be getting more detail. Cranking up the wheel to an upper body workout isn't what I'm looking for. The 12nm I'm getting now are enough torque. I hope I'm asking the question well.
You've asked it very well, unfortunatley I don't know this wheel base well enough but I do know enough to say this: you should exhaust all the settings before thinking of a new base, but then again, different bases have different feels so this could be what you want... It's hard to say, but try make a real "aggressive" setup and see how that goes? Thanks for watching bud
I really want to upgrade but Ive never found clear answers on what it really means. I have the 10nm base like you did and the last thing I want is just more strength. So is it just strength ? IF its not strength then what else does it give you ?? I truly dont get it but im still planning to get the U.
Spin test towards the end. In the spin test I slowed it down playback and the start time sync between the bases at high rotation degrees was not equal….. latency in the program running but it was so big in the initial start that is was not from the base but from software program that was running the test th-cam.com/video/ISAlM5f5GIo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xR0JsxAhs2oCF_Nl Use TH-cam CC translation TO ENGLISH AND the spin tests at the end show no difference in speed between the U and Alpha
Wondering what is your settings in SimPro and game? I ordered the Alpha U with the BF offers (Do it all bundle) and so, as I'm going to share the rig with the kids, I haven't found any videos yets where people give recommendation of settings when sharing with younger people or women, so if you can, that'd be awesome. Thanks !
For everyone who had watched and learned that much, how did you all miss "slew rate" term? 1) few real life racing series got very strong resistance on wheel 2) overdriving car is bad, overdriving via force even worse 3) wheelbase - is a speaker (driver), electronics - are amplifier. It does not matter if you speaker are mega-big or do sub-base boom, it is important how amplifier is tuner, how can it represent details. But unlike with real "speakers" - with wheelbases there is dynamic range (strength). Big "driver" with powerful enough "amplifier" can turn your semi-heavy wheel FAST, changing directions (while smaller drivers will have harder time changing directions = late with less details). Examples: Asetek Invicta with 9.4Nm/sec does not care how heavy is your wheel, it draws nice picture, especially "visible" on fast cars with stiff suspension. Asetek La Prima with 4.0Nm/sec - is enough in terms of peak 12Nm, but much "slower" to draw FFB picture of same quality. Especially on 2Kg wheels.
I have a Simucube 2 pro, I recently tried the Ultimate, the power from the ultimate is great, never had any issues with the 23nm, I never clipped, it was strong and gave me all the information I needed to drive fast, however in saying that, I did notice straight away the quality of the FFB is not at the same level as the simucube, it’s hard to explain. But it’s more refined, I feel as if the simucube dishes out more infomation when the car is loaded like you mentioned when you had difficulty finding that grip turning into that fast right hander. That’s the feel I get with the simucube in all corners, not just 1. Now that could just be me and how I perceive FFB, but I thought it was worth giving my feedback also. Great video and you explained the jump from a lower powered base really well 👏 The simagic eco system I would say is the best well rounded there is, I have a GT neo and love it.
Thanks for the video. I currently have the logitech g29 and just order the alfa mini, and just saw your videp and it got me thinking. I did not order the 15 or 23 because my rig is somewhat flexible (gt lite from next level racing) and thought that more than 10 may be too much. What would your thoughts be?
This is a very good question... I'm not sure... If you can find someone to take the alpha so you're not at so much of a "loss", then maybe, but I'm sure the alpha has everything one would need... you'd be getting a little bit extra of everything, but in the nm range you dont spend alot of time in. Thats a toughy alright!
@@JACKZERYT Trust me 15nm is all I will ever need tbh. My eyes are more on the Simagic Active pedals I cant wait to see those in action that will most likely be my next big sim racing purchase
Currently have a thrustmaster t248 (pretty much same power as a Logitech g920) I'm looking to upgrading from Christmas and I'm looking at the alpha mini or other bases around the same power range How much stronger and better would the ffb feel? Coming from a pretty cheap wheel
I just got the Alpha 15nm base the 1st time, and I've got no regrets with that. I saw a few people get the mini and felt like they needed more and then to avoid running into that problem a second time, they just went ahead and got the alpha U, and then they found that, that was way more than they needed, and all along they probably should have just bought the alpha. I saw a few people run into that, and I thought "I'm just going to get the Alpha" and ive been happy with that decision. Id rather simagic than simucube. Its actually a better overall package and is also cheaper. Also I came from an 8nm CSL DD, and felt like 2nm wasnt a big enough jump to justify it, and didn't trust the "its can actually do 13nm" stories. Even if it can do a bit more, so can the alpha, and Id rather a guaranteed 15 than a hope and pray on 13 with a guaranteed 10nm. The Alpha apparently feels like other 8nm peak bases
I got faster btw. On the csl dd the best i could do in Nordschliefe was 6:24. On the Alpha in the same car I can get 6:19 A full 5 seconds! Why? Because I feel like im catching slides, pushinh harder through corners with more confidence, and shaving of bit by bit as a result.
I gained a lot of speed going from a belt drive(csw 2.5) to an alpha. Went from like 1500 to 2.7k from the summer(just all due to being able to catch slides). The wheelbase itself honestly feels like cheating. Could you make the comparison with the alpha and alpha U?
I have the g923 and just bought the Alpha on the black friday specials. I was thinking about buying the mini but I was worried I might find myself wishing I bought something stronger after awhile also.
@Jackzer how did you go about playing around with it in terms of strength? Could you may be do a video on that? Would be curious as I feel completely lost in both iRacing and SimPro.
I tore a muscle in my forearm on my Alpha U a few months ago when I tried to catch a slide like a moron. The wheel snapped back on me after I leaned to the side holding the wheel with one hand. I couldn't twist a cap with my left hand for weeks.
How does clipping work? I understand when it happens like hitting a ripple strip or something, but, say you set the Mini to 10Nm does that mean it will clip? Is the number that you set it at the constant torque rather than the peak? What would the Alpha have to be set at to not clip in GT3 cars? Also same question for GT3 cars with the Mini. How far off would say that you are from an alien lap time? Really good review, glad i recently discovered you. ps. I hope you are getting the new game changing foldable rig to review. Indigo Lime are making it, please reach out and talk to their engineer Mark. He is really friendly and happy to answer questions. Im sure the two of you can work something out. I would love to see you review it to test its limits of what it can handle for a wheel base and pedals with no flex.
hello i have a fanatec 8nm wheel base i have two rims one being a v2 rim with magnetic shift paddles and a bmw round rim and v3 pedals and a fanatec shift so all my sim gear i was looking to upgrade to the dd2 but i have a gt omega apex wheel stand its so solid but be looking getting a rig plus the 3 monitors and the stand instead of the wheel base what would you get first ?
Go for a solid rig first, the stiffness and adjustability will help you enjoy the game more. Plus a GT Omega wheel stand with your office chair will not properly handle a dd2. Get a solid foundation first, then upgrade the wheel/pedals, etc
Personally i won't upgrade. I need to drive multiple long stints, and I don't want to get tired after just a handful of laps. My Moza R12 is more than enough for me
A common debate is whether an alpha mini set at 10nm and an alpha U set at 10nm will feel any different. Theoretically based on how motors work they should feel the same. But just curious if you noticed any difference in feel when using both bases at the same strength.
It's fascinating how the "same" force level can feel so different. I did a fair bit of testing of this with my old Asetek Invicta base (27Nm) in ACC. Running 27Nm on the base, and 25% gain in ACC should feel the same as 20Nm/34%, 15Nm/45%, 8Nm/85%. It just doesn't, and up to 20Nm the difference was massive despite the "holding force" through a given corner being the same. And then you add the difference between different wheelbases - I swapped out my Asetek Invicta for a VNM Xtreme (32Nm) and that was another huge step up in force feedback quality. I run that base now at ~26Nm, with ACC's in game gain set to 26%. I'm also now setting new personal best times on a lot of tracks, which as I was already around the 101-102% mark for laptimes was something I was not expecting. So yeah, there IS a big difference between lower and higher powered bases, and there is also a big difference from base to base.
You run the extreme at 8.3 nm if you use 26% ingame, 100% in software. I guess your biggest difference is type of motor and chip used, also software is a big thing.
@joost1183 Yeah, it's roughly the same strength as the recommended settings from Asetek for ACC, but it doesn't feel like 8 Nm. I don't think the ACC "gain" setting works entirely like that, though, as the forces are much stronger than my 8Nm CSL DD ever was capable of delivering even at 100% gain.
@@joost1183 I was just thinking a bit more about this, and I'm pretty sure the gain in ACC is not a simple reduction in max torque. If you run an 8Nm wheelbase at 100% gain in ACC you get clipping at almost every turn, so the game is actually trying to ouput much more than the 8Nm the wheelbase is capable of giving. Only as you approach 50% or lower on the gain setting does the clipping go away. Not sure why the devs have done it like this, I suspect it is to allow low powered wheels to give a sense of strength, but sacrificing feel in higher load corners.
@@texnorthman your train of thought has something to think about indeed. I thought it would be holding torque, but indeed, at 100% you're clipping all the time.
8-10 nm is .... fine. But after driving with the dd 8nm for probly 2 years, and the logitech before that, I upgraded to the invicta base (27 nm.) And holy shit, everything about it is better. I've tried 8nm again on this wheel... and it feels so dull. There is less engagement with the car, mid corner (loaded up) detail is so muted. And the responsiveness is something you don't even realize sucks on these lower powered bases. I don't mean to kill peoples party with great "entry" level dd wheels, but the upper end really is that much better. It made me much more consistent in sports cars, but just a bit faster. With powered steering, these cars are probly only putting out 10-12 nm irl. Though a sim will always have more force. But for sure quicker in formula. IMO anything less than about 13-14 nm for things like the f3 won't load your wheel realistically. So having a bit of headway even above that is extremely nice.
The pricing argument is somewhat exagerated. Simucube 2 Pro vs Simagic Alpha U (at least in the UK) is £85, so quite comparable (£1,240 vs. £1,155). And Simucube is non-propitiatory, so you can use any wheel and therefore price bracket. Saying that, they're both awesome wheelbases, but wanted to bring some real information.
Wow so close in price!, For me personally in the EU, on Simucubes website it's 1500eur, Murray motorsport 1490, where as the ultimate range from about 900 - 1149 eur, so from my own research and places the make sense to buy for me I see quite a big difference, I will say one of the better deals I've seen (I dont know if it's still on) was the SC2 Pro and the X29 Wheel, that was a neat deal for I think 2.1k or 2.2k But just a lil much for me personally.
@@JACKZERYT - that's mad! Regional pricing makes such a difference. The UK direct shop for Simucube is pretty new, so since Brexit that will have made it more price competitive. ~1000 euros to 1500 euro is quite a price difference tbf. It's just great there are so many legitimately good options now!
Wow what an ad! I was with you until the 8:30 mark you should let people know you’re doing an ad? also is that simagic branding on the side of your car?
It's not an advertisement, I explicitly say I'm not paid for it. I'm only sent the gear to race with... hence why I keep the video so focused on my internal processes yo keep it as objective as I can. And if you listen to the video, it's litterally about my experience, feelings and emotions, throughout the hardware research, preparation, changes and transitions... and they are not for sale 💫👨🍳.
CSLDD 8nm is not enough for me. Clips if I run it at the NM I need. Caught in between the new VRS bundle 15nm and wheel for 1k usd. Or a Simucube. I’ve been in the fanatec ecosystem so all my wheels will need to be sold. frustrating. Unless I go with a DD1-2
You should look at the DD+ I would suggest. By most accounts it feels superior in FFB to the older DD1 and 2 and the 16Nm is holding torque, not peak. So don't let that sway you so much vs the DD1 in particular (from memory Boosted Media said the DD+ felt at least as strong, if not slightly stronger compared to the DD1).
Thing is.. alot of games dont put out the power.. or ffb isn detailed its just force.. take acc. Run game ffb low. Wheel ffb high. Or it clips regardless.. and it isnt mind blowing heavy.. but. Gt7 all games turn game up and your wheel base its insane!. Qt only 8-9nm on g pro... i have no other referance. Point is its game dependant. And support of game for that base. And the games ffb abilities.. lots of variables..
Ffb is fascinating. And subjective.. everyone has different view and preferance.. and yes its about learning what you have. And tweaking settings. Whem you play multi games hell even track to track on acc. Dd feels so different. Once hit that point of im maxed out. Isnt enough anymore.. upgrade!!. Dont think ill ever need 20nm wheel base.. dont run it close to it so ya overkill
Simagic has good hardware, I think it's all telemetry based 👍, decent software 👍, tech support, customer support = abysmal 👎 it's all good until you get a defective item! don't be me, shop elsewhere
Well put, but hey, if thats what they like to do fair play to em I say :D, The hobby I think for me is more than racing, it's cable management, cleaning your rig, always adding little bits on, being proud of the space I've created as a workstation/ race rig. Like someone who does shooting who always cleans there guns, shoots em a bit then sells em or swaps, it's the thrill of new things and different things! I bet someone could do a full study into the psychology of this ay! Lol. Thanks for watching!
@@nicksmith9 Very true, I knew a guy who sold his car, and only one I think for a scope for a rifle XD that has simracing decision making written all over it lol
Your right there! I wish i could've but I couldn't because the everything would feel the same, so I have to use it at 80ish to keep some headroom for big spikes, like highspeed corners and kerbs etc. But I do use about 12-13nm with occasional spikes to about 14-15nm (again highspeed , high load moments) and I find that to be my sweet spot. But I guess it's like assuming everyone can lift the same weights, some people could use 16nm effortlessly (i know people who do) and I know some people who have a moza r5 and say it leaves there arms sore for 3 days after driving, so it really is person by person. As the main limiting factor to deciding forcefeedback is personal strength, this is where you see "sweet" spots differing
@funnyanimalworld7579 can I ask what wheelbase you have/have you tried a high power wheelbase? It's not that hard, and bodybuilders should have no worries even using 20nm for a period of time. Although let me know where this video of body builders who aren't able to turn a 20nm wheel, I'd love a laugh lol
I went from a Logitech g923 to a Simucube 2 Pro. I’ll never forget the first time I tried it out. It was mind blowing 😂
Holy moly. You went from the bottom to the top of the line. It must have been mind blowing indeed.
same it was crazy
how many times you race on the g923 before going to simucube?
@@LeMamourI used the g923 for about 8 months. By that time I knew I really wanted sim racing as a hobby, so started looking into direct drives. The g923 is around 2nm, the Simucube is 25nm. I usually use it at around 10-12nm now, but with all that overhead you maintain All the detail and never get a hint of clipping. It’s Brilliant. Well worth all the hours I put in at work to pay for it!
WOW! What a jump lol! That mustve been wicked, thanks for stopping by the channel buddy!
10:29 "you turn, you clip, you pray" is gonna be my new explanation on why you need high nm's 😂😂
I know right ahhahahaha
Love the content! I just got my alpha u coming from a csl elite id had for many years. The difference was scary!! I had to turn the ffb down so much. After getting the settings dialed racing has become so much more enjoyable. 1 thing everyone says is how easy it is to catch snap oversteer and can confirm its night and day how fast you can recegnize and correct!! If your thinking of buying just do it so worth it!!
Whats a mad jump ahahahahaha, I say you loved that one ay!
I went from a g27 to a simagic alpha. And i don't think I'll be upgrading ever again. Wait to just get what you really really want. If you cry once you'll smile more.
Coming from a Logitech G27 to an Alpha Mini/GT-Neo/P1000F-2, I'm happy with my purchase.
Here in New Zealand the Alpha base is $429 more than the mini, with the Alpha Ultimate being $790 more than the mini, so they were never in consideration by me.
I'm happy with my purchase and am so far away from the limit of this wheelbase due to lack of talent. I've got plenty of room to grow.
Great video.
Thanks for watching friend!
@Man-Of-Sorrows-2056 Good points, I see why it works for you, so for myself persoanlly, what I lack in G-forces that we dont have (because we're not in real cars), I try to supplement my wheel with more force to help me imagine those huge loading forces. But at the end of the day it's all personal preference as FFB is such a "by feel" kinda thing :)
Thanks Jack, great discussion. I just got an Invicta from a LaPrima... everything you said is spot on. I appreciate your work.
Thanks alot ! Really appreciate your feedback!
Went from nothing to R12 and a cockpit. best investment of my life
Welcome to the grid man!
Def a bigger difference then people may think. Its very very hard to ever go back after trying a 20+nm wheelbase and thats not even about using it at 20nm. It just has a differenr and or better feeling.
th-cam.com/video/ISAlM5f5GIo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xR0JsxAhs2oCF_Nl
Use TH-cam CC translation TO ENGLISH AND the spin tests at the end show no difference in speed between the U and Alpha.
Finally some data for you to settle your mind
In the spin test I slowed it down playback and the start time sync between the bases at high rotation degrees was not equal…..
latency in the program running but it was so big in the initial start that is was not from the base but from software program that was running the test
@Max__apex yeah the ultimate isnt faster. We know this simagic has some magic where the mini, alpha and ultimate are all the same speed. But with the ultimate you can def feel that impact in said details of the cars. Its a bit more potent but of course if you never want to use more then 10nm go with the mini. Now with other wheelbase brands def differences between lower and higher nm wheelbases in there lineups.
Its just a more potent dense feel to everything in the ultimate vs mini that's all. The stronger motor is felt as it should be. Some can't handle it some can. After about 9 months to a year on a dd of lowrr power most end up raising settings more and more. We adapt and things end up feeling lighter overtime.
Yeah, I was gonna say, this isn't really as prominent with Simagic, even boosted media pointed that out. There's just no real noticeable difference in slew rates across the bases when used at the same torque ratings. The only reason id suggest, that you're feeling more detail is you're running higher gain, but that's allowing you to never have to run into clipping as well. And yeah, you might not be using the full 20nm, but you probably are using more than 10nm too.
I have no issues clipping on the Alpha and can't imagine running higher gain. The Alpha is incredibly strong already
Exactly you get it lol. The 10nm cannot match me using an alpha or ultimate at 12nm without clipping. @GregoryShtevensh
You need to get the Alpha so we can get a comparison of all 3. I feel like the Alpha is the sweet spot for most.
I have alpha and it's perfect for me, and it looks like it's far from needing to use its maximum power.
I had Alpha for a couple years but after trying asetek invicta oh my God everything was better the fidelity feeling every bump and tire lock up and..., I had to sell the alpha and buy asetek Invicta@@FlaOrdone
No need just turn the alpha U down to 15nm in simpro but I do agree, I have a mini, I wanted an alpha and right now micro center has the alpha U for $50 more than the regular alpha and I’m considering the jump
@@FlaOrdone I have the Alpha as well, I got it about 3 months ago and it's been fantastic. It's a great time to be involved in sim racing.
@@Conway312 Wow, only $50 more? That's an amazing deal. I'm currently using the Alpha and am really happy with it, but man, if the U can be had for just $50 more than the regular Alpha right now, that's def the way to go. Maybe in 2 to 3 years I'll want some more Nm, and with the way competition is getting, we'll all be getting 30+nm wheelbases on the cheap soon enough. Slight exaggeration there, lol, but you know what I mean :)
Thanks, really appreciate your honest opinion. Was really not sure 10 NM or 15 NM, but 15NM will be fine for me. Thanks a lot.
First of all cheers love your content.
I'm you a couple years back. I actually just upgraded from the t300 to the fanatech CSL DD with the boost kit and the CSL V2 pedals.
Absolute game changer to me but I also am having the same issue needing to upgrade my rig as it's a bit too flexy.
Congrats on the new wheelbase though.
I have someway similar upgrade from a logitech driving force gt (playstation 3)😅 to a thrustmaster tgt. Then the fanatec dd 8nm upgrade which was freaking awesome experience. And now moza r21 v2 which is too much for me, i think i only use about 14nm - 16nm which is great😁
@@lilmoesieable yeah after watching videos like this and saying comments like yours I definitely think I'm going to be able to get a good bit of use out of my current wheel before I feel the need to upgrade.
Thanks for watching man!!! And thank you!
How was the upgrade over the 8NM? Looking to get the clubsport DD but dont know if its worth it @@lilmoesieable
Really great stuff!
100% agree.
Thanks!
New alpha owner partially based on your reviews. Coming from CSL DD 8nm.
Blown away by Alpha 15nm w/ GT Neo.
@scott1krr431 oh wow! What a jump! Enjoy it pal!
Mhm, same here, really good, though i can't use more then 12 nm, my armpits hurt with the Neo since the wheel is pretty light compared to the other Sim magic wheels.
@@JACKZERYT I do, almost every day. Thanks for the good content and keep it coming!
@ I don’t run mine to clipping at 15nm. I leave the base at 15 nm then adjust iRacing ffb strength to my liking. Usually looks to be 10-12 nm fully loaded mid corner which is perfect because it still leaves headroom for curb strikes, rumble strips, road texture… It feels to me that 15 nm gives the right amount of strength with headroom for details.
I went from a DD Pro 8nm Fanatec to a Fanatec clubsport DD+ 15nm and it blew me away too. Big difference in details but in general using the whole 15nm(without clipping) is a bit much when trying to compete online, my sweet spot is probably 11-12nm. I think stronger bases is about the details. So a stronger base than 15nm could make sense but m very satisfied with what i got.
I bought a LEOXZ QR2 adapter so i could use the GT Neo on my Fanatec base, Neo is a bloody good wheel 👍
I have gone from a Fanatec Clubsport to a Simagic Alpha 15nm wheel and can say it is night and day I was lucky as a few friends have the Simagic Alpha Mini and so I tried it and decided that the 15Nm would end up being a forever wheelbase as they also found the 10Nm a little lacking after a while like yourself I can honestly say it has made me more consistent from lap to lap and have zero regrets what so ever
Went from the CSL DD to Simagic Alpha. Night and day. Wanted to get out of the Fanatec ecosystem. Using the Gt Neo and Gt pro (k) wheel. Glad I switched.
I went from a Thrustmaster ts-pc to the simagic alpha and I’ve been loving it.
Exactly what I did! excited to get it.
Whoa!
Same!
I’m using tspc right now and considering an alpha. I’m still improving laptimes. Yet in terms of consistency I’m not quite sure if it’s the wheelbase or just my driving😅😅
Agreed with the “will it make you faster” discussion. Time on track is definitely the most significant factor. I think better gear makes that time on track more efficient.
I went 2.5 --> 8 --> 15 the latter being the Alpha.
Very noticeable regards consistency & detail. I'm still not very good but at least I know I have the equipment to allow me to grow and improve.
Right on! Similar to me ish lol! Good to see ya again Ali!
Upgraded to the Alpha U from CSL DD 8nm. GT Neo just got me really fast so I watched a couple of your vids and read stuff to come to the conclusion that Simagic is the perfect price to performance manufacturer. And I am not slightly disappointed. Still getting used to the massive power and fidelity (360hz ffb). My first Formula races in iRacing felt like a cheat coming from the csl. It’s just like you can’t overdrive the car (easily). Thanks for your content! Looking forward to the new Simagic wheels with Maglink support. Then I will get another one as I love Simhub integration with the Neo for custom/car focussed RPM etc. cheers
I'm using the Alpha U and I love it. It almost feels like I have butt-kickers on my aluminum profile cockpit. I can literally feel the curb through my butt but not so much through my hands surprisingly. The slew rate that motor has is insane.
Same here. That thing shakes the floor.
Yeah my Alpha does this too. Its weird how it does that. Its actually what gives it the robotic sounds too. But yeah the details are SO higj
I hear what your saying about losing forces through your rig! It's imperative to have a strong, flex free rig if you want all the forces it has to offer. Otherwise you won't get the maximum out of it. When I first started I had a play seat bottom of the ladder cockpit which I actually broke due to heavy braking 😂.
I did have a cup of tea when I sat down to watch, so all good here. My wife bought me the Simagic Ultimate as a Christmas gift. She says I need to leave it in the box until then! But that's okay, because I need to build my Rig Metal Rig Plus before I mount that beast of a wheel base.
@MayneRacing951 oh what a lucky boy!!! No opening until Christmas day!!!!@!!
If in case you feel tired of your wife, pass her on!!! LOL.
All my respects to you and your wife of course.
@@ArielGoldenRet LOL, I'll hold on to her for a bit longer; I still need to get my P1000 pedals!
@@MayneRacing951 Change the wife then... mine bought me the P2000 :P and I paid the haptic for ABS
Interesting chat mate. I am using the Moza R9, and very happy with the shift from G29 to it and its properties in general, but I feel exactly you did; As if being held slightly back by the limit of torque and always on the verge of clipping in a lot of cars/corners too. Made me think once more about going with a higher torque base.
Cheers!
Thanks for watching bud!
One of the only problems with higher Nm wheels is once you get used to them and your arms dont ache after a race anymore.. then using a lesser Nm wheel is very pronounced imho
The higher torque wheels are really more about avoiding clipping during spikes and better responsiveness (slew rate) than running them at max torque. I have the SC2 Pro but probably run it at 50% or so.
Just sold my Clubsport DD (12Nm) and ordered the Alpha U (23Nm) earlier today. Looking forward to install it when it arrives
Aye aye aye, let me know how that goes good sir!
@ Will do. I was supposed to buy the Alpha 15Nm but it was out of stock and my local simracing dealer here in Norway gave me a good deal on the alpha U :)
Let me know how you feel about the alpha U. I’m thinking of getting a club sport DD+ because my DD1 has an issue. Financially I would only spend money for a new wheel base if I go fanatec but if I go simagic I would spend a bit more money and it would take a little more time
I went from a thrustmaster ts-pc to a moza r16v2.
The difference in tyre life on a long stint was massive. It definitely made me faster over a race distance
Wow I say that was some jump alright!
I did the same jump, but from a G29... and found the exact same gains!
I'm going through the exact same dilima but with Fanatec. I have the CSL dd at 8nm peak force and I just moved it from a table mount to a rig and just like yours, it did give it that little bit of extra fidelity from the extra rigidity that was noticeable right away. Even still though, It's still not quite strong enough either and I would like to upgrade to the Clubsport DD+ at 15nm holding force and just better overall technology AND it just went on sale from $1,000 too $850 but I have already spent so much on black Friday this year getting a cockpit, inverted v3 pedals and OLED center monitor that I can't justify it at the moment lol. Plus like you said, with the cockpit upgrade and it feeling that much better, I can wait a little bit! Great video, glad I chose to click it, sub earned!
Thanks for this video. It came perfect timing for me as I'm literally about to purchase my first full sim rig and gear in the next two days. Black Friday deals are still happening in Australia for the products I want. It's good to hear your thoughts on having a solid sim rig (as I was contemplating building my own out of wood), and the strength of the Simagic wheel bases. I'll be certain to buy the Simagic Alpha now (currently 23% off in Aus) as I want to build a rig that I know I won't outgrow. And I'll put the money in and get myself a TrakRacer TR120 which looks to be very stable (especially with roughly 20% off! $$$). Thanks for your time and thoughts 😊
Thanks for watching!
Going from a TM-TX to the alpha mini soon. Like you say I feel consistency and feel is going to be what im chasing.
Love ur videos mate love from Dublin.
Ahh deadly! Glad you like em man! Hope to see ya round more!
I have still a old momo racing wheel but orderd de simagic mini.. mayhe I am very crazy.. played couple of hours simracing and have a Motion rig build, implementing surge and active seatbelt now.. my load cell pedals arrived.. I am very excited when imam done and tuned in to play a race sim game basicly for the first time !
I opted for the Alpha upgrading from a G29. LOVE LOVE LOVE.
Whoa, what a jump! What was the first big difference you noticed out of curiosity?
@ The first thing was the detail in the feedback. I was able to really feel the grip limits. I had to adjust and within a week I started getting better times. Also got the P2000 brakes. It was all a big adjustment but well worth it.
Buy once cry once,i went straight from g27 to osw (mige),and custom carbon wheel from a local modder.
7 years in,0 issues,i think it worth every penny.
Also I think when you get used to it in the long run the potential to become better will be there. It's just up to the individual and whether they have the time and will to become better
I like these videos where you talk over some racing footage in the background. I look forwards to upgrading to an Alpha Ultimate soon. I absolutely love my Simagic mini but I clip from time to time unfortunately.
@@louiienation8497 thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it, and your going to love it!
You make decisions based on input. Your input is what you feel or you know. The more input you have the better your decisions can make.
I also switched from alpha mini to u and have done the same thing slowly increasing the max force. Been on 18nm for a few weeks now and I wish there was an easier way for me to make snaps and bumps/curbs go the full 23nm while having the tire and suspension load max at 18nm. I find having to fight the wheel a bit makes immersion better for me which in turn makes me drive better
I actually did go from a Moza R5 to an SC2 Pro, and yes I cut my lap times, for instance 3 full seconds plus on Suzuka in Super Formula. Because you can hold in a corner without it skipping or clipping, you trust the speed through the corners more. You can be on the edge more. It absolutely can make you faster if you let go of your old habits and build new feels.
Also interestingly about the comment about SC2 and whether one can afford it, I may wind up going with a VNM 32 Nm soon. It’s less money than the SC2 Pro at 25 Nm, but now that I understand the servo low cog motor type more and how to actually use filters and EQ stuff and all that, I believe I would rather have the extra headroom of a 32 Nm than the name of a Simucube. I think the SC2 Pro is pretty great but there’s drawbacks too. And I think headroom may be more important when wheelbases are so closely matched in their other attributes.
I’m suddenly using all 25 Nm with ease and when some cars or sims have a more defined return to center and you have to scrub that out with static force reduction or similar, suddenly those grabbing holding torque forces and details require more headroom.
All 25nm with ease, my guy's buff! Good insight my friend thanks alot!
@ Hahahaha, hardly buff. Arms like a guitar player/ gamer 🤣
Cars with modeled power steering and using that static force reduction to keep the rubber band effect down, and a little smoothing and suddenly holding that torque isn’t really that much torque. Ive come to believe this is the real benefit of headroom in a wheelbase. The ability to even further fine tune what you want out of it.
I don’t know much about the cars modeling in these games, but it seems when it’s a car with power steering and good suspension it eats up a lot of those dynamics. To get those back you need that headroom. The same 12 Nm in an Indy Car is a lot different than in a BMW Hybrid. In my experience anyway. I’m still learning more about this though. In my Moza R5 just maxing it out covered everything. There’s far more nuance to it than that I’m finding.
Had the same "eureka" experience twice with my csl dd 8nm when I:
- Bought metal QR for my wheels (plastic wheel is a scam, so I will never buy a fanatec anymore - you are buying something that doesn't wor kas intended)
- Switched from playseat challenge to playseat trophy
Because of those 2 jumps, I put away buying a new wheelbase, but I finally did it - Simagic Alpha. Comparing to the previous jumps - it's not that big. It's still great an 100% worth it, but if you alreadyhave 8-10nm wheelbase, a wobbly rig or plastic toy QR (coz you were scammed as I were) - fix these things first. It's much cheaper and will give you the edge for another half/one year
Decent insight buddy! Thanks for sharing!
Ordered Alpha U, fx pro and p1000 pedals. Currently have moza r5. Cant wait for it to arive, only pending to get a nice cockpit.
I gave up a 22Nm servo motor years ago to go real car racing and went back to CSL then CSL DD and I DO need more torque for added effort and that very desired overhead to feel everything that you can. 8Nm is not enough when you start to get serious again, at least for a non alien.
When in a race, smooth wheel inputs are important. If you have to muscle a high NM wheel setup, how can you be smooth with wheel inputs ? I have a OSW setup with small mige motor and i tend to keep NM on the low end. So, whats the more important in a race, smooth wheel inputs, or brute force feeling ?
I like to hear so feed please.
Thanks
Good points! Your deffiantley right, but I see your saying, the lighter = the easier it is to be smooth, that is true, but for me (personally) the lighter the wheel the easier it is to make an incorrect move, even if it's smooth, so I like my car to feel like it's on a rail, or a train track, and it's very very obvious when it's falling off it, for me, that's higher nm of torque, nothing crazy, and I'm still learning but I deffinatley use 11-13+ nm and that seems to be my sweet spot, but you are right, too strong and it's hard to smooth.
I will say there is a way to have the best of both worlds, you can have a very heavy wheel, and make it smooth with effects, so there is a way to achieve both, but I like a lively jumpy wheel! I think its more fun! Thanks so much for watching and taking the time to comment!
I have a 8nm dd pro ,ps5 I’m not sure if it’s even running at this. It’s roughly set so I can use it without changing parameters.just built an omega prime lite R and R9 chair.
There should be a law that stops over 60s getting any where near nuts ,bolts,and Allen keys.
10:32 we need “Turn. Clip. Pray.” Stickers or something! Make it happen Jackzer 😃
@@xNick13x 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Good spot lol
I'm about to make the jump from a TM T248 to the Simagic Alpha; so i'm in the gym lifting right now
Get lifting buddy!, Your going to love it so much!
I just ordered Alpha and waiting for it to ship. Now I am thinking should I change to Alpha u? Only 300CAD price diff.
Really happy with my new Alpha. Running around 10nm so it has plenty of overhead left too. Under 1000€ for the base and a GT Neo was a great deal.
I got a mini, wanted the upgrade to Alpha after but the black friday deals were sold out.
@@joost1183 glad I pulled the trigger as soon as I saw the deals. No doubt the mini should be great as well, as Jack said.
@@joost1183 same but that mini was very very cheap to let it down
@@infernoCBR Indeed. I ll be happy anyway, my T300 runs at 45% because of FFB fade. Even with 45%, it happens after 30 mins... No dust on the motor either. Might just screw it fully open and run another fan on it directly.
@ yep, one thing that annoyed me about my T300 was the constant fan noise. The Alpha has some coil whine on idle, but it's a lot less noticeable.
i went from a t300 to asetek forte. i was looking to get the alpha mini but the asetek xmas sales put the forte at almost the same price.
glad i did now with the alpha evo range coming out and finding out what features i have that the aalpha range misses out on.
I went from Logitech G923 to Moza R5 bundle and the diference was huge for me
What an insane jump! The direct drive must feel amazing for you! Good shout with the bundle some epic value and crazy good perfrmance in that too!
Just purchased the alpha U, expecting it next week. Would you mind chucking up a settings video?
Hey Simagic, good day. Can you please send him out the regular Alpha as well, so we can get his thoughts on all 3 wheelbases? Thank you!
It'd be handy alright, but I've a rough idea of where it sits without owning it, I'd say it's a beast!
@@JACKZERYT Nice! I've been using it for about 3 months now and have been really happy with it. It's my first ever wheelbase, so I don't have anything else to compare it to. But I do know that I've landed on the strength that I like (took a while), and I still have plenty of headroom to spare in all titles. But, considering how great of deals they're offering, I still may consider the U at some point down the road during the holiday sales.
Keep that slip angle slippin', the rev meter revving, and I'll see you out on track!
thx mate thinking of switching from fanatec csl dd 8nm going for the alpha. Currently 8 nm pushes not on max with a 27 cm wheele.
Random question. What kind of mic mount/arm do you have? Trying to find a decent option with a new triple screen setup
I use the Shure SM7B, Rode Streamer XLR, and a norman boom arm that clamps to the back of the monitor mount :)
I have an un-unboxed Alpha U + FX non-pro here since BF, and I can't get myself to open it...
After hearing this, I think today will be the day that I pull the trigger and just do it.
yolo^^
Whoa, get em out buddy!
I’ve just gone from a 8 NM belt base to the 15 NM Alpha. It’s set to 70% and that’s enough tbh. I’m not sure what a 23 NM upgrade would do as the max is way higher than is comfortable to race with.
Depends on the car and simulator. With a 16Nm base i get clipping sometimes with some cars even when i put the in game FFB strength at 50%. And for those cars its not enough for me.
@@TheInsaiyanI’d say it depends on the driver. I’m nearly 60 years old and not the specimen I used to be. Four hours at 100% would be very tough for me.
I was using moza R12 it was ok. I was looking at the same Simagic as you then 3 year Asetek sale I got the asetek forte with quick release and free Pagani huyara pedals for close to $900. Asetek is unbelievable
I have someway similar upgrade from a logitech driving force gt (playstation 3)😅 to a thrustmaster tgt. Then the fanatec dd 8nm upgrade which was freaking awesome experience. And now moza r21 v2 which is too much for me, i think i only use about 14nm - 16nm which is great😁
Nice to have a lil wiggle room at the top end tho ay? Thanks for watching bud!
I use la prima, 50-60% NM. I don’t see myself using more strength I become slow but never say never.
A question how do yoU measure NM in iracing in%? For example I use 7 for gt3 and 12.5 in f1600 while wheelbase is 12NM max.
I've no idea, I think there is an iRacing FFB tool! Check it maybe? Thanks for watching!
Question for you Jack: I have the 12nm Clubsport DD and while the torque is more than I need, I still can't find the fine details in the road I'm looking for. Especially the front tires losing grip on iRacing on RWD cars. Would a higher nm base give me more of that detail, or is the wheel simply harder to turn. I know the iRacing GT3's aren't really connected to the road that well anyway, but I would seriously spend the money on the Alpha or Alpha Ultimate if I knew for sure I'd be getting more detail. Cranking up the wheel to an upper body workout isn't what I'm looking for. The 12nm I'm getting now are enough torque. I hope I'm asking the question well.
You've asked it very well, unfortunatley I don't know this wheel base well enough but I do know enough to say this:
you should exhaust all the settings before thinking of a new base, but then again, different bases have different feels so this could be what you want... It's hard to say, but try make a real "aggressive" setup and see how that goes? Thanks for watching bud
I really want to upgrade but Ive never found clear answers on what it really means. I have the 10nm base like you did and the last thing I want is just more strength. So is it just strength ? IF its not strength then what else does it give you ?? I truly dont get it but im still planning to get the U.
Also to be clear I want realism. I’ve raced real cars. I’ve driven many lol. Cars are not hard to turn. Not like how people seem to make sim wheels
Spin test towards the end.
In the spin test I slowed it down playback and the start time sync between the bases at high rotation degrees was not equal…..
latency in the program running but it was so big in the initial start that is was not from the base but from software program that was running the test
th-cam.com/video/ISAlM5f5GIo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xR0JsxAhs2oCF_Nl
Use TH-cam CC translation TO ENGLISH AND the spin tests at the end show no difference in speed between the U and Alpha
Thanks max! you always have amazing insight into these wheel bases!
Wondering what is your settings in SimPro and game? I ordered the Alpha U with the BF offers (Do it all bundle) and so, as I'm going to share the rig with the kids, I haven't found any videos yets where people give recommendation of settings when sharing with younger people or women, so if you can, that'd be awesome. Thanks !
Ffb stength in game is the most important setting.. set it low at 20% in the beginning if u have the ultimate
That's a great point, hmm. Thats a great video idea!But yeah FFB Strengths and Max torque need to go way down, and stay next to the kill switch!
For everyone who had watched and learned that much, how did you all miss "slew rate" term?
1) few real life racing series got very strong resistance on wheel
2) overdriving car is bad, overdriving via force even worse
3) wheelbase - is a speaker (driver), electronics - are amplifier.
It does not matter if you speaker are mega-big or do sub-base boom, it is important how amplifier is tuner, how can it represent details.
But unlike with real "speakers" - with wheelbases there is dynamic range (strength). Big "driver" with powerful enough "amplifier" can turn your semi-heavy wheel FAST, changing directions (while smaller drivers will have harder time changing directions = late with less details).
Examples:
Asetek Invicta with 9.4Nm/sec does not care how heavy is your wheel, it draws nice picture, especially "visible" on fast cars with stiff suspension.
Asetek La Prima with 4.0Nm/sec - is enough in terms of peak 12Nm, but much "slower" to draw FFB picture of same quality. Especially on 2Kg wheels.
I have the Moza R9. For 9nm, it's a beast. No regrets.
I've tried the R9 and you sir are correct it's an animal! What wheel do you have with it? It's a sick base!
Hi Jack, what rig do you have now?
@@LeMamour hey buddy!!! Thanks for watching
I have the TR160 by Trak Racer, I'm happy with it, but I've heard the TR120 is just as good/solid
@JACKZERYT Thanks, you have a tank.
So you were running iracing at max FFB on the 10nm and wanted just more pure strength ?
Did you run the 10nm at 100% strength in iracing ? On the main strength.
I have a Simucube 2 pro, I recently tried the Ultimate, the power from the ultimate is great, never had any issues with the 23nm, I never clipped, it was strong and gave me all the information I needed to drive fast, however in saying that, I did notice straight away the quality of the FFB is not at the same level as the simucube, it’s hard to explain. But it’s more refined, I feel as if the simucube dishes out more infomation when the car is loaded like you mentioned when you had difficulty finding that grip turning into that fast right hander. That’s the feel I get with the simucube in all corners, not just 1. Now that could just be me and how I perceive FFB, but I thought it was worth giving my feedback also. Great video and you explained the jump from a lower powered base really well 👏 The simagic eco system I would say is the best well rounded there is, I have a GT neo and love it.
Thanks for the video. I currently have the logitech g29 and just order the alfa mini, and just saw your videp and it got me thinking. I did not order the 15 or 23 because my rig is somewhat flexible (gt lite from next level racing) and thought that more than 10 may be too much. What would your thoughts be?
Would it be worth it to go from an Alpha to the Ultimate
Yes ….. I have tried the Alpha U and sell the Alpha 💯
@Max__apex or should I wait for simagics newer wheelbases to come out
This is a very good question... I'm not sure...
If you can find someone to take the alpha so you're not at so much of a "loss", then maybe, but I'm sure the alpha has everything one would need... you'd be getting a little bit extra of everything, but in the nm range you dont spend alot of time in. Thats a toughy alright!
@@JACKZERYT Trust me 15nm is all I will ever need tbh. My eyes are more on the Simagic Active pedals I cant wait to see those in action that will most likely be my next big sim racing purchase
I went from G29 on desk to Simagic Alpha 15NM with a TR160 rig, but haven't got to test it out, still waiting on trakracer's shipping :/
Currently have a thrustmaster t248 (pretty much same power as a Logitech g920)
I'm looking to upgrading from Christmas and I'm looking at the alpha mini or other bases around the same power range
How much stronger and better would the ffb feel? Coming from a pretty cheap wheel
I just got the Alpha 15nm base the 1st time, and I've got no regrets with that. I saw a few people get the mini and felt like they needed more and then to avoid running into that problem a second time, they just went ahead and got the alpha U, and then they found that, that was way more than they needed, and all along they probably should have just bought the alpha.
I saw a few people run into that, and I thought "I'm just going to get the Alpha" and ive been happy with that decision.
Id rather simagic than simucube. Its actually a better overall package and is also cheaper.
Also I came from an 8nm CSL DD, and felt like 2nm wasnt a big enough jump to justify it, and didn't trust the "its can actually do 13nm" stories.
Even if it can do a bit more, so can the alpha, and Id rather a guaranteed 15 than a hope and pray on 13 with a guaranteed 10nm.
The Alpha apparently feels like other 8nm peak bases
I got faster btw.
On the csl dd the best i could do in Nordschliefe was 6:24.
On the Alpha in the same car I can get 6:19
A full 5 seconds! Why? Because I feel like im catching slides, pushinh harder through corners with more confidence, and shaving of bit by bit as a result.
I gained a lot of speed going from a belt drive(csw 2.5) to an alpha. Went from like 1500 to 2.7k from the summer(just all due to being able to catch slides). The wheelbase itself honestly feels like cheating.
Could you make the comparison with the alpha and alpha U?
I'd love to but I dont own the alpha unfortunaltey, But having owned the Mini and ultimate, I can make a fair guess as to what it's like alright.
I have the g923 and just bought the Alpha on the black friday specials. I was thinking about buying the mini but I was worried I might find myself wishing I bought something stronger after awhile also.
@Jackzer how did you go about playing around with it in terms of strength? Could you may be do a video on that? Would be curious as I feel completely lost in both iRacing and SimPro.
@@kevincohen4118 it's on the list buddy!
I tore a muscle in my forearm on my Alpha U a few months ago when I tried to catch a slide like a moron. The wheel snapped back on me after I leaned to the side holding the wheel with one hand. I couldn't twist a cap with my left hand for weeks.
How does clipping work? I understand when it happens like hitting a ripple strip or something, but, say you set the Mini to 10Nm does that mean it will clip? Is the number that you set it at the constant torque rather than the peak? What would the Alpha have to be set at to not clip in GT3 cars? Also same question for GT3 cars with the Mini.
How far off would say that you are from an alien lap time?
Really good review, glad i recently discovered you.
ps. I hope you are getting the new game changing foldable rig to review. Indigo Lime are making it, please reach out and talk to their engineer Mark. He is really friendly and happy to answer questions. Im sure the two of you can work something out. I would love to see you review it to test its limits of what it can handle for a wheel base and pedals with no flex.
I'll take a look thanks for the shout mate :),
And thanks for the kind words means the world to me!
@@JACKZERYT
you're welcome mate, good to see another Irishman in the scene, Im Irish Italian Australian.
Any words on what setting clipping occurs at?
@SC_46 to high powa 😭
@@JACKZERYT of course i havent had a DD yet and wonder when clipping would happen
hello i have a fanatec 8nm wheel base i have two rims one being a v2 rim with magnetic shift paddles and a bmw round rim and v3 pedals and a fanatec shift so all my sim gear i was looking to upgrade to the dd2 but i have a gt omega apex wheel stand its so solid but be looking getting a rig plus the 3 monitors and the stand instead of the wheel base what would you get first ?
Go for a solid rig first, the stiffness and adjustability will help you enjoy the game more. Plus a GT Omega wheel stand with your office chair will not properly handle a dd2. Get a solid foundation first, then upgrade the wheel/pedals, etc
Personally i won't upgrade. I need to drive multiple long stints, and I don't want to get tired after just a handful of laps. My Moza R12 is more than enough for me
A common debate is whether an alpha mini set at 10nm and an alpha U set at 10nm will feel any different.
Theoretically based on how motors work they should feel the same. But just curious if you noticed any difference in feel when using both bases at the same strength.
Ima try this out and get back to you!
It's fascinating how the "same" force level can feel so different. I did a fair bit of testing of this with my old Asetek Invicta base (27Nm) in ACC. Running 27Nm on the base, and 25% gain in ACC should feel the same as 20Nm/34%, 15Nm/45%, 8Nm/85%. It just doesn't, and up to 20Nm the difference was massive despite the "holding force" through a given corner being the same.
And then you add the difference between different wheelbases - I swapped out my Asetek Invicta for a VNM Xtreme (32Nm) and that was another huge step up in force feedback quality. I run that base now at ~26Nm, with ACC's in game gain set to 26%. I'm also now setting new personal best times on a lot of tracks, which as I was already around the 101-102% mark for laptimes was something I was not expecting.
So yeah, there IS a big difference between lower and higher powered bases, and there is also a big difference from base to base.
You run the extreme at 8.3 nm if you use 26% ingame, 100% in software. I guess your biggest difference is type of motor and chip used, also software is a big thing.
@joost1183 Yeah, it's roughly the same strength as the recommended settings from Asetek for ACC, but it doesn't feel like 8 Nm. I don't think the ACC "gain" setting works entirely like that, though, as the forces are much stronger than my 8Nm CSL DD ever was capable of delivering even at 100% gain.
Liar and dreamer…… talking for no reason.
@@joost1183 I was just thinking a bit more about this, and I'm pretty sure the gain in ACC is not a simple reduction in max torque. If you run an 8Nm wheelbase at 100% gain in ACC you get clipping at almost every turn, so the game is actually trying to ouput much more than the 8Nm the wheelbase is capable of giving. Only as you approach 50% or lower on the gain setting does the clipping go away. Not sure why the devs have done it like this, I suspect it is to allow low powered wheels to give a sense of strength, but sacrificing feel in higher load corners.
@@texnorthman your train of thought has something to think about indeed. I thought it would be holding torque, but indeed, at 100% you're clipping all the time.
P. s don't turn it up too high otherwise youll find yourself needing a 35nm base next 😂😂😅
uh oh.
0:40 "Some guy almost ended up inside me" sounds like something a teenager would say on an average party night
8-10 nm is .... fine. But after driving with the dd 8nm for probly 2 years, and the logitech before that, I upgraded to the invicta base (27 nm.) And holy shit, everything about it is better. I've tried 8nm again on this wheel... and it feels so dull. There is less engagement with the car, mid corner (loaded up) detail is so muted. And the responsiveness is something you don't even realize sucks on these lower powered bases.
I don't mean to kill peoples party with great "entry" level dd wheels, but the upper end really is that much better. It made me much more consistent in sports cars, but just a bit faster. With powered steering, these cars are probly only putting out 10-12 nm irl. Though a sim will always have more force. But for sure quicker in formula. IMO anything less than about 13-14 nm for things like the f3 won't load your wheel realistically. So having a bit of headway even above that is extremely nice.
Common advice is to leave the base at 100% and reduce the FFB in game.
I do exactly this!
The pricing argument is somewhat exagerated. Simucube 2 Pro vs Simagic Alpha U (at least in the UK) is £85, so quite comparable (£1,240 vs. £1,155). And Simucube is non-propitiatory, so you can use any wheel and therefore price bracket. Saying that, they're both awesome wheelbases, but wanted to bring some real information.
Wow so close in price!, For me personally in the EU, on Simucubes website it's 1500eur, Murray motorsport 1490, where as the ultimate range from about 900 - 1149 eur, so from my own research and places the make sense to buy for me I see quite a big difference, I will say one of the better deals I've seen (I dont know if it's still on) was the SC2 Pro and the X29 Wheel, that was a neat deal for I think 2.1k or 2.2k But just a lil much for me personally.
@@JACKZERYT - that's mad! Regional pricing makes such a difference. The UK direct shop for Simucube is pretty new, so since Brexit that will have made it more price competitive. ~1000 euros to 1500 euro is quite a price difference tbf. It's just great there are so many legitimately good options now!
Wow what an ad! I was with you until the 8:30 mark you should let people know you’re doing an ad? also is that simagic branding on the side of your car?
It's not an advertisement, I explicitly say I'm not paid for it. I'm only sent the gear to race with... hence why I keep the video so focused on my internal processes yo keep it as objective as I can.
And if you listen to the video, it's litterally about my experience, feelings and emotions, throughout the hardware research, preparation, changes and transitions... and they are not for sale 💫👨🍳.
CSLDD 8nm is not enough for me. Clips if I run it at the NM I need.
Caught in between the new VRS bundle 15nm and wheel for 1k usd. Or a Simucube.
I’ve been in the fanatec ecosystem so all my wheels will need to be sold. frustrating. Unless I go with a DD1-2
You should look at the DD+ I would suggest. By most accounts it feels superior in FFB to the older DD1 and 2 and the 16Nm is holding torque, not peak. So don't let that sway you so much vs the DD1 in particular (from memory Boosted Media said the DD+ felt at least as strong, if not slightly stronger compared to the DD1).
@@Moelders109 I agree that’s a good point. it’s probably a great base. The VRS bundle is a great value. I feel like their motors are superior as well.
Thing is.. alot of games dont put out the power.. or ffb isn detailed its just force.. take acc. Run game ffb low. Wheel ffb high. Or it clips regardless.. and it isnt mind blowing heavy.. but. Gt7 all games turn game up and your wheel base its insane!. Qt only 8-9nm on g pro... i have no other referance. Point is its game dependant. And support of game for that base. And the games ffb abilities.. lots of variables..
Ffb is fascinating. And subjective.. everyone has different view and preferance.. and yes its about learning what you have. And tweaking settings. Whem you play multi games hell even track to track on acc. Dd feels so different. Once hit that point of im maxed out. Isnt enough anymore.. upgrade!!. Dont think ill ever need 20nm wheel base.. dont run it close to it so ya overkill
0:40...traumatic 😬
Simagic has good hardware, I think it's all telemetry based 👍, decent software 👍, tech support, customer support = abysmal 👎 it's all good until you get a defective item! don't be me, shop elsewhere
People get addicted to buying new gear more than racing I find
Well put, but hey, if thats what they like to do fair play to em I say :D, The hobby I think for me is more than racing, it's cable management, cleaning your rig, always adding little bits on, being proud of the space I've created as a workstation/ race rig. Like someone who does shooting who always cleans there guns, shoots em a bit then sells em or swaps, it's the thrill of new things and different things! I bet someone could do a full study into the psychology of this ay! Lol.
Thanks for watching!
@JACKZERYT I totally agree and I think the video was great! Just an observation I made of some of my friends and online people
@@nicksmith9 Very true, I knew a guy who sold his car, and only one I think for a scope for a rifle XD that has simracing decision making written all over it lol
I dont really believe anyone uses 10nm wheel in 100% strength.
Your right there! I wish i could've but I couldn't because the everything would feel the same, so I have to use it at 80ish to keep some headroom for big spikes, like highspeed corners and kerbs etc.
But I do use about 12-13nm with occasional spikes to about 14-15nm (again highspeed , high load moments) and I find that to be my sweet spot.
But I guess it's like assuming everyone can lift the same weights, some people could use 16nm effortlessly (i know people who do) and I know some people who have a moza r5 and say it leaves there arms sore for 3 days after driving, so it really is person by person.
As the main limiting factor to deciding forcefeedback is personal strength, this is where you see "sweet" spots differing
@JACKZERYT i saw a video where bodybuilders strugle with such forces on a sim so im abit confused how you can do it.
@funnyanimalworld7579 can I ask what wheelbase you have/have you tried a high power wheelbase?
It's not that hard, and bodybuilders should have no worries even using 20nm for a period of time.
Although let me know where this video of body builders who aren't able to turn a 20nm wheel, I'd love a laugh lol
Over 15nm is absolute nonsense. Stop the "NM war" please.
useless 10nm is the sweet spot.