wow 11 hour live stream and 2 videos yesterday and we still get another vid out today .. what is wrong with me ! - I'm personally really hyped for a genuine NEW TIRE MODEL for iracing and to finally be able to actually drive in a realistic way on the limit, as for me this is really where the fun in handling is with a sim why I love AMS1 / AC1 and any sim that get the Balance more right , to then have that in iRacing's structure along with its ranking, big events , Matt Malone and amount of content would be a dream. ( voice chat as well SO GOOD ! ) Thanks again to all the people that understand that being critical is not being negative and people that can have a range of views on things not just a binary view, its worth me reiterating that I genuinely feel fortunate that the vast majority of our viewers have brains that they use. Mind you I do have to question why they are using them to watch this but oh well. For the iracers in denial who don't believe what I'm saying because 1) my arguments are not good enough for them 2) I have 0 credibility 3) I am certainly not and have never claimed to be an authority - here are some examples from other people th-cam.com/video/Bh0ZQMeJv_8/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=AustinOgonoski - th-cam.com/video/q8g9y4t4Mus/w-d-xo.htmlsi=oXeJfKUZhxM2RkNZ&t=1021 Sadly I can't share some conversations I have had with real drivers and also in fairness everyone has differing opinions even real drivers (especial real drivers lol ) - also some real drivers surprise surprise are just rich people they are not even good drivers SHOCKING I KNOW ! But I think given the arguments given what you can demonstrably see given the vast majority of driver feedback and given that iracing are litrally working on changing things I'm not quite sure how you can disagree with what I have said in regards to iracings fundimental physics issue / Nature So I expect an apology for all the shit I have gotten over the years thanks 😜 🫖 ( to be honest I like people thinking about things and being critical keep it up and i know most is just passion for games / sims / cars / knob fiddling)
I think it's going to be well received by quite a few people for a fundamental reason. Today's tire model makes nearly every driving mistake fatal to your race. If the new model allow 80% of the folks to catch their mistakes and keep going, rather than going from grip/grip/grip/ice/ice/ice - that's going to be seen as a good thing by nearly everyone. And one thing you touched on is the "captive driver" - the best iracing deal is $199 for 2 years with 25% off for Black Friday, so $6.22/mo is hard to beat for the ability to pop into a fully populated race with real drivers 24/7/365¹ ¹ ...as long as your favorite isn't, like, the GPL Lotus or Brazilian Stock Cars...
Hey maybe driving in the rain will actually be fun now and involve some feel, rather than memorizing somebody’s wet line. For me the addition of rain with the current tire model has made those series undriveable.
Irl driver here. We want better tires because iRacing is so good. The biggest issue is the tires are sososososossooooooooo bad. It makes it hard to use iRacing as a training tool
Yah its the only sim with real competition across a range of cars , I'm quite shit at driving but its basically only iRacing where I can find a race any time of the day and be racing at least 10 people within 1.7 of track pace and for me i nicely fit into the top 10 or so cars with the formula stuff i like to drive. For people within 0.7 of pace they will normally get at least 3-5 people to drive most times and with GT3 they will get at least 10-30 people to race.
I hope you are giving your feedback to iRacing. I'd bet they'd love to spend hours picking your brain. I spent my career in engineering and that is the way we are. There is no such thing as too much feedback.
I welcome it, i think if it's the kind of thing that would significantly upset you it means you're probably not a very adaptable driver. But we'll see what it's actually like in practice.
Real racing series also change the tires, e.g. F1 constantly changing the tire compounds and manufacturers. The drivers might have opinions but ultimately they adapt and drive the new tires to their limit. The same will happen in iRacing
I get bored very quickly when driving alone on iRacing while I can lap for hours on AC1. The main reason being the satisfaction to play with the car AT the limit. A thing that cannot ne done on iRacing
As irl tyre tech and amateur driver the tyre model for sim racing is ridiculous but I accept to simulate a real tyre for all types of racing extremely difficult. However it has been done, top multimillion dollar F1 teams can simulate tyre characteristics extremely well.. so it’s not impossible. The issue for sim developers is that every type of IRL race tyre has its own characteristics. The aim of any decent irl team is to learn those characteristics and engineer the car and driver to maximise the performance for racing. So developing a tyre models for every class of racing hat might not be possible for sim racing game, but what is extremely important is the tyre model should reward really good drivers. Really good drivers learn to drive close to the limit but not over it and more put more load through which in turn generates more tyre temperature which in turn generates extra grip (as long as it remains within the temp window). IRL the tyre only heats when it is loaded and then cools dramatically on the straights depending on ambient/ track temps. The model needs have a much better bell curve to properly simulate a real tyre and reward a driver who can drive at or slightly over the grip level and generate the correct tyre temps. Instead iracing has made temperature the enemy.
We don't need to simulate anything to the F1 level, we don't need data to develop cars, we don't need to train racing drivers to that level where the smallest stuff can matter. We are here to have fun with realistic games. All we need is a car that acts like a car in every scenario, you don't even need to match anything perfectly, in fact it could be pretty far off even and still feel very realistic. People keep bringing up the F1 stuff, its soo utterly pointless to compare anything with that. The average iracer doesn't even understand whats wrong with the tyres, they are concerned if they can hit a 100fps with their 3070 or whatever. Meanwhile the lowest budget F1 team has a server room with a cluster of cpus and gpus with the compute power of a 1000 times the mid to high tier gaming pc and its soul purpose is to run their sim. And I heard Roman Grosjean say recently they still mostly turned off temperature related stuff because its added a complexity to such an absurd level that even their stuff struggles to deal with it. Yet little timmy iRacing is trying to "simulate" tyre temps over here... Think about how absurd that is.
@@BG_36 Very kind of you to say that, thank you! Imagine thinking that was an attack or something lol, I was just trying to add things to what you have said but whatever... Whats wrong with people in this space... GM is right asking that constantly :D
@@gefx0164 That one's kinda on you. I believe you that you didn't mean it that way but, "we don't need...we don't need...we don't need", comes off as very dismissive. I read it as an attack. I have absolutely been guilty of doing the same thing.
I think iRacing has changed drastically over the last 11 years I've been a member. And although you might have some little changes from build to build which have added up to a big change long term, the cars still go faster in the same way. I don't think fundamentally the cars are gonna drive that much differently. But if the current tyre model can't simulate flat spots properly amongst other things it needs to be upgraded to be more realistic. If the new model makes sliding feel more realistic and we get a blend of iRacing and assetto it could be great.
I have been a member since 2009 i think , The core method of driving the sim has always been "drive under the limit" Don't "Drive On the limit" Yes things have changed , tires have had more or less grip , more or less prone to instant off behaviour , ware and exploits and a whole ton of things have been changed addressed and tweaked - but its swings and roundabouts over the core method of driving in the sim the "essence" of the driving if you will. I genuinely think though if the majority of the suspension , under limit handling and everything else is basically the same but they can fix the on and over limit aspect iracing would probably be up there as one of the best driving sims for raw handling.
@@kevinobrien4155 I think competition helps but I generally got the impression that iRacing mostly feel the pressure from themselves wanting to be better and direct feedback + research they do. I'm not sure how much other games would affect iracing given how established it is.
@@kevinobrien4155 I don't feel that AC EVO is actually a competitor for iRacing. iRacing is simply special in the regard that it is not just a sim but also the massive service around it that regularly allows you to jump into rated sessions with other similarly strong players etc. No other sim can compete with that. Meanwhile the AC Community is huge but it mostly doesn't even consist of "racers" but rather people who just roam around in mods, drift, cruise, try out weird stuff.
@@GamerMuscleVideos I’ve been a member since 2010, and back then, the tire model was much more forgiving, You could really throw the car into a corner and achieve a four-wheel slide without any major risks, which is how many fast drivers approached it, I believe it was around late 2010 when they made a drastic change with the new ffb and the first iteration of the NTM, introducing the "death slide" for the first time. this is still fresh for me because I still have the old version from 2010, which I downloaded from a torrent website a long time ago. Occasionally, I jump back into it just to remind myself how the sim used to drive! :D.
iRacers are not normal gamers, iRacers are waaaaay more forgiwing and actually for most part embrace all new changes, cause in all these years (over 10) I have not seen any change, where I would say oh shit, they ruined it. We have had many tyre model changes and we always have embraced them, dont see why now it would be any different.
Like the rain I didn't rush back to start renting the £500 pounds worth of stuff I have apparently "purchased" again. This is what they need to change, allow access to stuff you have "bought" offline, you tight bastard's.
A genuine thanks for your persistence in highlighting the iracing death slide, it’s the only sim I play a lot and I’m really looking forward to any improvement they make. Maybe they should reset everyone’s ir back to 2k once a year so we all have to get stuck in and not be so protective of our ivory tower.
Being unable to save a car from a slide when driving at the limit defeats the purpose of driving and racing, thats what makes driving so fun and satisfying driving at the limit and saving the car in a slide like its tokyo drift. This is amazing news, I still think they need to rebuild the game from the ground up, they keep trying to make graphics better but it still looks like a game from 2002 which it is.
I’ve also been there since 2009. I must say, you seem to have forgotten that there have been several occasions where iRacing has made rather substantial physics changes that required everybody to adjust. This time will not be any different to any of those. Like all those times, we’ll complain, we’ll adjust, and we’ll continue onward.
@ 🤷♂️ If that’s what you think. The point is I remember several occasions in the sim’s history where things changed very dramatically and we had to take several weeks to adjust. This will be no different. Regardless of what the various changes were, this will not be the first big change we ever get. We have had many.
@@GamerMuscleVideosNo sim has. Everyone says that iracing is harder to drive than IRL so you think making it easier to drive/more realistic is going to cause people to leave the service?
I would’ve joined from the beginning if I had known about it, but I didn’t even hear about it until near the end of 2009. I’m getting old. I was around for the first Papyrus titles, too, and the days of the first Thrustmaster wheels with bungie cord for a return spring. Hehe.
I love iRacing but a large part of the community are deluded in their constant proclamation that it has realistic FFB that is 100% a match to the real life cars. Marketing is a powerful tool! This is a sim where everyone - let me say it again 'everyone' runs the tyres of every car at absolute minimum tyre pressure! The tyre model is between broken and non existent! I can't wait to see the changes and hope they are significant. The current FFB does a really nice job of providing a sense of weight balance (in a completing unrealistic way through massive forces through the stearing - which is both wrong and great at the same time) but there is no sense of tyre grip in the FFB because there is no tyre model. Looking forward to the changes.
they tend to be the same people that claim ACs ffb is all canned effects which is utter bs.. was reading a forum thread from 7 years ago and the only canned effects in AC is the abs and maybe slip if i remember correctly and this was from a dev
When youre at that high a level of sim racing youre going to exploit it one way or another. Lets just say the devs dont care enough about top sim racer opinions to change their model to suit😂 good day
For me race is adaptation, that wouldn't be a problem if the change was for the better. But I see that there are two types of drivers, those who feel and adapt and those who are methodical and do the same and expect the same result.
Not wanting to change the tire model because drivers are comfortable is a terrible reason not to update the model. I think the community will embrace realism over laptimes.
i think it will actually help me a lot. I haven't driven in quite some time and even then one race every two months on averagebut my style of driving is very aggressive (rally school of thought) I throw the car in the turn and then handle the rear; in iRacing i had the problem that it was snapping violently and unexpectedly making it very hard to catch the oversteer and even if you do your tyres were practically dead
Lol they won't have listened to me I'm just a moron youtuber that happens to like FFB wheels and sims , it will have been the droves of real world drivers winging + iracing simply wanting to improve the sim then having resources and time to do that.
16 year + iRacer and Sim Racing since 1999. I'm happy to learn new tires and the drastic changes they need to make. If I can do that at age 52 so can everyone else.
I still have ptsd from the Ford GT. It was undrivable initially, iracing said it supposed to be like this, this is realistic. Then they "upgraded" the physics and it was a completely different car.
I think the Henry Ford quote, "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses", applies here. iracing has actually done a great job rolling back changes that do not work or get major pushback. I say. be happy with thier development and expierimentation. You never know when they will strike gold and find something incredible.
10:25 majority of those are community decided in the forums - only real exception is NASCAR (follows IRL schedule except for winter off season period), Formula Ford open (decided by Motorsport UK reps as of next season) and the rookie series or new content series that didn't already have a community base, and of course stuff like draft master etc.
I picked up iRacing during the pandemic like everyone else. I immediately gave up on it because the tire model was so bad. Like you were saying, I never felt like I could "lean" on the tires at all. It felt like having to drive through a school zone with a cop behind you. You HAD to keep it under the limits at all times, because if you stepped over the limit by even a hair.... that was it, you're gone. I had been doing track days and autocross in real life for 10 years at that point, and iRacing destroyed my confidence in my real driving. Hopefully they can make the tire model so that it actually reacts realistically over the limit. There should not be a performance cliff for the tires where if you exceed 100%, grip just disappears completely. This is the first video that has ever made me consider going back to iRacing.
i've been on iRacing since it's inception basically & have seen alot of tire model changes - it'll go over fine (fun fact: the og OTM was pretty mcuh running it sideways at all times on the NASCAR stuff)
It will make it easier to drive, so people will be happy imo, it's very hard to drive on the limit atm because it just snaps and kill you if you are 1% over the limit. Also it will allow different driving types instead of you must be super smooth and do the same dull inputs and you are not allowed to adjust inputs
Whilst I agree with you that a large part of iRacing's fanbase will get absolutely irate over tyre physics changes, it was something I'd felt the Sim needed for a long time.
I have two things that I think is necessary to improve for iRacing. Tiremodell and net code. If the tires where more like AC it would be perfect. Today something is very wrong, you can’t feel the tires and the limit of them. And then we have net code, which is just very very bad and frustrating. Hope it will be a sufficient improvement with the update.
This video is insanely positive, thinking that after 17 years iRacing will actually make a huge change to their tires. Maybe, but it has been really the same since 1998 when GPL came out.. I hope .. but am not as positive :)
Great couple of vids, Iracing - smooth = fast. That is what I like so much about iRacing. It’s so obvious when you don’t use the entire track air if you over drive the car. But yeah the tires going off if you lean on them is a bit annoying and unless you really really pay attention to the last few corners boom off you go. If that gets better then yay.
This is iracing we're talking about. We will all renew our subscriptions since we have stockholm syndrome. New tire model can only be a good thing anyway.
Tires in all forms are racing are constantly changing and evolving as manufacturers try to better understand their tires. As with real world racing, tire models in sim racing should benefit from regular updates as well. If all else fails they can revert back to the old model
Perhaps iRacing has an advantage with this change because of their marketing of always striving for the most realistic simulator. So if they do their PR right and warn people ahead of time maybe they can prepare people for the new practice and changes to their driving they will have to do. But of course there will always be complaints.
Have tried iR at multiple points over the last 15 or so years. Never once sank its teeth into me. No hatred, just not driven by a persitent online racing career of sorts and the driving itself felt middle of the road by sim standards at those points in history. I think the first time I gave it a shot, it took a couple days before I was back in GTR2. They've built an impressive platform and community, but the driving itself has never been at the front of the pack. It would be easy to sit here and pick apart the delusional and ridiculous members of iR's community, but frankly the entire hobby is filled to the brim with those types. Usually the most vocal of which have never laid rubber to tarmac on a real track, but are somehow the standard holders for "realism." I was very impressed at what they put together with the recent wet driving implementation. If they can truly evolve the driving dynamics and tire modeling, I might just find myself with a subscription again. Here's to hoping they pull off something great.
I’ve been playing iracing for years it’s pretty much the only racing sim that I do. I disagree with you saying most iracers don’t think there is a problem with the physics. The cars have never been good once they start sliding. It’s more a case of excepting that every sim has its flaws but as a package iracing is still the leading sim and most competitive. I don’t think that to many people will be upset if it makes it a bit easier to recover from spins or less likely to get taken out from slight door banging.
Most iracers think it just needs a tweek here and there , they won't admit that you can't drive cars in some of the most basic ways one should be able to.
Oh it will be fine. Many iRacers race all the other sims too so. Also, it’s not like it’s really bad now, just still too much issues ‘on the limit’ as you mention. All of this should make for better racing and hopefully less mayhem (wishful thinking I know).
I’m very excited for it as long as it is mostly what they’ve promised. I came from those other sims where you can realistically run the car on the ragged edge for a limited time without automatically becoming one with the barrier.
I think you may have missed the point of iRacing, which is it's a simulator more so than a game. If the tyre model makes the tyres behave like real tyre do, and we have to adjust to a different way of driving that adds to the emmersion, then that's what we are paying for, isn't it? If it means that tyres degrade so that someone that goes real hard at the start of a race ends up with slower lap times and is beaten by someone that looked after their tyres, then that's simulation isn't it. In fact, that will be bloody brilliant.
As a driver in real life, fundamental changes are immersive to the experience. Race classes change spec tires all the time and you are always constantly "relearning" how to drive a car.
It won’t be a risk, people have sunk way too much money in to the game to pull the plug. The cost sunk fallacy will keep people playing and iRacing will use that for sure
Didn't watch the whole thing, but: Learn new stuff every day and challenge your brain. Don't just stick to the old stuff, because you are trained to do it. Oh, and most important: Have fun! ;) Love your content, baldman! Raceroom, AC, AMS2, iRacing - I like'em all. Paused iRacing since RaceRooms awesome September Update. Would love to try LMU, but I am online racing stuff with decent VR implementation.
I remember back in the day when they went from Counter-Strike 1.5 (Pre Steam) to Counter-Strike 1.6 (Post Steam) and people didn't like the changes they did with some people refusing to play the new Steam only version for a long while after it came out.
The sunk cost fallacy will keep 3/4 of members around, just won’t be getting as many new subscribers if they don’t fix the tyre model and the ffb. The competition is heating up which is awesome for sim racing
I'm primarily an oval racer so I was very excited to see it's being added to the Cup Car before a full implementation. The Cup Car desperately needs better tyres.
I look forward to the changes. Like when they changed grass which was super slippery and now is manageable, I expect iRacing to introduce an improvement. As long as irl drivers are giving their inputs and the sim is translating that for me, I’m fine with re-learning everything again. I really hope they nail it and I can feel the car more connected to the road. I really don’t appreciate how sometimes I lose the car and I cannot even explain why.
I really enjoy iRacing for the competition, however I could never get a proper handle on the tire physics. IRacing has taught me to fear the limit, unlike my real world experience in autocross and track days. Improving the tire model to be more accurate is nothing but a good thing and I think most will welcome it. Remaining stagnant will just result in falling behind the other simulators. If anyone here has bought a newer better set of pedals for example, it can take some time to adjust and return to your prior form. That's also a risk. One could argue that a better tire model could attract more outside interest in iRacing as well.
5:46 In no other sim, you brake in a straight line, on a non abs car, just at very edge of locking up, then go turn in and the rear just comes around on you edit: IRL braking technique for non abs cars just doesn’t work on iracing
I remember v7 tire change, in the middle of my league endurance season. Took me a long time to adjust. Even binned it in the race on lap two in t1 on my stint halfway into the race. Iracing has gone through many tire changes, ice tire, less ice tire, v7, apparently 3 more models, and now 11. As long as it does not become acc tire pressure micro managing. Less overheating and better heat recovery please. But change away if it improoves. Lmp2 for example is a bit outside, it allowes more slip than any other car, if more cars allows being able to play around more on the tires I welcome it.
I actually struggle a bit when I push with death slides so I really wonder if this new model might help me so I actually think this might benefit me (watch my irating crumble now) but it’s one of the main issues with my driving is I slide a lot so am quite excited about this new model to see if it makes me and other drivers any faster because I also see massive death slides that I think in other games would be fine or at least a catchable slide
I think the smartest move iracing has made in the last few years was hiring Terence Groening - excited to see the fruits of his work. Personally, I think you might be overstating the risks due to your long history of pointing out the current limitations of the sim, particularly tires. I think in reality most sim racers share your thoughts that the sim has limitations, offset of course by it's compelling competitive structure and voice chat :-) I think broadly they'll be delighted, and frankly their such adamant product fanboys they'll all be beating you to the 'game changer' videos, with barely a twitch of self refection that their previous assertations, 'the most realistic sim' were, let's be kind, erm, 'creative'.
I'm on iRacing since 2011, my muscle memory has been thru anything already. Really looking forward to the update as I'm mostly interested in open wheelers and there are little other options anyway. I hope it will increase accessibility and popularity of those these - well, all - cars.
As a bald git head gets cold and its nice to simulate having hair with a hat sadly iracing knitted the hat and it sometimes slips off my head with no warning when it gets too warm.
If tyres behave a lot better in future iRacing, then it's worth the tiny "re-learning" needed for a more realistic behavior "at the edge of the grip"...
I race almost exclusively asphalt oval cars, and they have become MUCH too easy to drive.... I don't know if this addresses that, but if it does, GREAT!
About your comment on the opinions of authorities: I agree that we shouldn’t care, and should just drive what we like to drive. But I’m much more likely to gravitate to a sim that an IRL driver prefers, because I feel like what I’m learning in it is more accurate to IRL driving. Will I ever be a real race car driver, do any of the skills I learn from sim racing actually matter? Not at all. But knowing that what I’m learning could translate to real race car driving gets me soooooo much more enjoyment. It’s why I like other sims like flight sim for example. Feels like I’m learning real “skills” even if it’s not fully accurate or if I’ll ever use them. Thanks for what you do in our little niche, always encouraging discussion, constructive criticism, and just having fun!
I would aim to say most iRacers biggest dislike is the present tire model. Heck for both on and off-road. Off-road the cars act like they're on ice. The constant complaint is being afraid to find the tire's limits. People love most everything else in iRacing, but I always hear about the cars feeling unpredictable above the limit. As an iRacer myself I totally agree. Especially for those on less powerful Nm racing wheels. It sure makes it like racing in the rain on most other sim racing games. Also the current ABS overheating the outer tire surface is nonsense in most real world usage. You hit abs a little extra in iRacing and you'll find yourself halfway through the turn with sudden massive under steer as the tires are now overheated on surface temps. Can't wait to see what they release personally.
I think anyone who's played other sims and has been doing iracing for awhile will welcome new tires. I don't love the feel of the current tires and look forward to change but I will say the one good thing the current tires do is punish people for driving over their heads which might help the quality of the racing.
I personally think iracing changing the tyre physics is a very good thing, making the driving experience more realistic. Also for the longevity of the sim. With AC Evo being released in the next few weeks I racing needs to try to stay at the top. People are resilient, they will get used to it. That’s my opinion anyway.
I tried almost every simulator. Really wanted to like iRacing cause of its system. Now where Dev Blog states tire walls are literally static walls I can understand why I ditched iRacing for other sims. Only reason people keep playing iRacing is malicious prizing & subscription model. FOMO goes crazy there. Streamers just prefer iRacing cause they can make money with their fans using their referal code.
Good vid Mr Muscle, some good points in there. Changing the tyre model will certainly be enough to bring me back for another try - I tried it and didn't like it quite a few years ago now but moved to The Most Realistic Driving Simulator ACC. Maybe this change will bring some other people back as well. Thank you.
The change will probably also bring new people in to it. For me i would be interested in the service, if it had tyre physics. It's probably the last missing piece from it
Risky or not, it's a step they have to take. I race on ovals, and I want it to be as real as possible. I'll relearn whatever I need to if the experience is closer to the real thing.
It'll be fine! Been Iracing since the start, Papy before that. Under Papy, we got new software almost every year and it got more popular. The one that are going to have issues are the ones with the trick setups that few have. They will have to start over for a while.
I have actually watched some talented racers that can jump in any car and lap with the best in a few laps. I was watching the racing school at the track I worked at back decades ago (Summit Point). The instructor (and track owner at the time) used to get pissed at least once a session and jump into a Pinto and almost lap his whole class in Formula Ford cars.
I enjoy driving in iracing. I've never had an issue other than i don't like how expensive it is. I suspect that's true for many of the people complaining about it, that don't even use it.
Most Iracers are hooked and will stick around. Iracing has major things no other sim can match like Oval racing , huge selection of cars and tracks { at a cost of course } and ease of finding a race. PLEASE bring on the new tire model , it will hopefully be the icing this cake has needed for a long time !
I have to agree with this in some regard. Take ACC for example. I had a lot of hours racing it daily during Covid and well into 2022, racing & competing in multiple competitive leagues. Then Kunos changed the tire model and I found it so agonizing to re-learn to drive the sim, so much so that I jumped ship and went over to iRacing.... so here is hoping I am not about to go through that experience again.
I can wait for the update. iRacing has come a long way since the iSkating days. If we can get a tire model that allows is to "dance" on the limit of the tire, then I'm all for it.
The hallmark to a good physics model is how a car feels beyond the limit. iRacing is very very good under the limit but its probably one of the worst beyond that point. Would be really cool if the new tyre model enables them to potentially add a Formula Drift kind of event. Because with the old/current model, that would be impossible.
Ive always wanted iRacing to require less gaming skills and more driving skills that you naturally just "do" rather than learn to do to be fast in the SIM.
I've been waiting for the new tire model for a long time. Up until now the only real valid reason to race on iRacing was the number of people on-line and the amount of championships available
I think something that might buffer the potential fall out is the “where else are they gonna go” element that iRacing has. Yeah, we’ve got a few good options and Evo on the way but nothing else has the foothold iRacing has at all, so even if they left, I’d wager they’d find their way back eventually. The biggest unknown factor imo is Evo though. Depending on how quickly early access ramps up, and how integrated their online components are, that could legitimately take some ground back, but who knows right now.
People will be annoyed for a day or two until they get used to it. Knowing it's more realistic will make everyone happy about it even if it feels awkward for a week. So.. it's a positive in the long run and not a risk at all.
The biggest issue with tires is they are too hard. Hence all the cars you just run min pressure and never touch it again. I can only speak for autocross and track days on both very high level street tires and slicks, but there is no give and squirm in the tires. You can feel the tire flexing vs the suspension and chassis moving. The more sidewall you have, the more noticeable it is. But, even low profile tires flex a fair bit. That flex is the buffer between pushing the limit and crashing. Even slicks are a little more forgiving in real life. But they will bite you a lot harder than street tires when you over do it.
I'm super excited for this change. I play iracing because the one part of the physics that it does better than any other sim is how the weight of the car feels, but at the same time I lament the tire model because of exactly this issue. I came from grassroots level motorsports in real life for years before i ever got into simracing, so I have this idea in my head of how a car feels to drive and I look for whatever sim can get the closest to that. So far it's always been iracing and beamng, and the main reason for both is because of the way weight transfer feels and how the car reacts to it. But both sims also have really poor tire models that discourage driving on the very limit, especially iracing, you're kinda forced to stay just under the limit as you described. I hate it, and I can't wait for this change, I hope it's everything I've wanted iracing's tire model to be for years!
wow 11 hour live stream and 2 videos yesterday and we still get another vid out today .. what is wrong with me ! - I'm personally really hyped for a genuine NEW TIRE MODEL for iracing and to finally be able to actually drive in a realistic way on the limit, as for me this is really where the fun in handling is with a sim why I love AMS1 / AC1 and any sim that get the Balance more right , to then have that in iRacing's structure along with its ranking, big events , Matt Malone and amount of content would be a dream. ( voice chat as well SO GOOD ! )
Thanks again to all the people that understand that being critical is not being negative and people that can have a range of views on things not just a binary view, its worth me reiterating that I genuinely feel fortunate that the vast majority of our viewers have brains that they use. Mind you I do have to question why they are using them to watch this but oh well.
For the iracers in denial who don't believe what I'm saying because
1) my arguments are not good enough for them
2) I have 0 credibility
3) I am certainly not and have never claimed to be an authority
- here are some examples from other people th-cam.com/video/Bh0ZQMeJv_8/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=AustinOgonoski - th-cam.com/video/q8g9y4t4Mus/w-d-xo.htmlsi=oXeJfKUZhxM2RkNZ&t=1021
Sadly I can't share some conversations I have had with real drivers and also in fairness everyone has differing opinions even real drivers (especial real drivers lol ) - also some real drivers surprise surprise are just rich people they are not even good drivers SHOCKING I KNOW !
But I think given the arguments given what you can demonstrably see given the vast majority of driver feedback and given that iracing are litrally working on changing things I'm not quite sure how you can disagree with what I have said in regards to iracings fundimental physics issue / Nature
So I expect an apology for all the shit I have gotten over the years thanks 😜 🫖 ( to be honest I like people thinking about things and being critical keep it up and i know most is just passion for games / sims / cars / knob fiddling)
I think it's going to be well received by quite a few people for a fundamental reason. Today's tire model makes nearly every driving mistake fatal to your race. If the new model allow 80% of the folks to catch their mistakes and keep going, rather than going from grip/grip/grip/ice/ice/ice - that's going to be seen as a good thing by nearly everyone.
And one thing you touched on is the "captive driver" - the best iracing deal is $199 for 2 years with 25% off for Black Friday, so $6.22/mo is hard to beat for the ability to pop into a fully populated race with real drivers 24/7/365¹
¹ ...as long as your favorite isn't, like, the GPL Lotus or Brazilian Stock Cars...
Grinding that sweet december bonus ad revenue 🫡
Hey maybe driving in the rain will actually be fun now and involve some feel, rather than memorizing somebody’s wet line. For me the addition of rain with the current tire model has made those series undriveable.
Irl driver here. We want better tires because iRacing is so good. The biggest issue is the tires are sososososossooooooooo bad. It makes it hard to use iRacing as a training tool
Yah its the only sim with real competition across a range of cars , I'm quite shit at driving but its basically only iRacing where I can find a race any time of the day and be racing at least 10 people within 1.7 of track pace and for me i nicely fit into the top 10 or so cars with the formula stuff i like to drive.
For people within 0.7 of pace they will normally get at least 3-5 people to drive most times and with GT3 they will get at least 10-30 people to race.
I hope you are giving your feedback to iRacing. I'd bet they'd love to spend hours picking your brain.
I spent my career in engineering and that is the way we are. There is no such thing as too much feedback.
@@johnelectric933 iRacing obviously have tons of high level pro drivers giving feedback and have drivers working on there team.
@@GamerMuscleVideos I am sure you are right. Dumb statement from me.
@johnelectric933 haha I'm not cool enough for iRacing to listen to. But I do know of some people who are, and that is what is effecting this change!
I welcome it, i think if it's the kind of thing that would significantly upset you it means you're probably not a very adaptable driver. But we'll see what it's actually like in practice.
Playing lots of sims defiantly forces a person to be adaptive LOL - I need to make a video on this topic as well as its really interesting
Real racing series also change the tires, e.g. F1 constantly changing the tire compounds and manufacturers. The drivers might have opinions but ultimately they adapt and drive the new tires to their limit. The same will happen in iRacing
agreed.
I get bored very quickly when driving alone on iRacing while I can lap for hours on AC1. The main reason being the satisfaction to play with the car AT the limit. A thing that cannot ne done on iRacing
As irl tyre tech and amateur driver the tyre model for sim racing is ridiculous but I accept to simulate a real tyre for all types of racing extremely difficult. However it has been done, top multimillion dollar F1 teams can simulate tyre characteristics extremely well.. so it’s not impossible. The issue for sim developers is that every type of IRL race tyre has its own characteristics. The aim of any decent irl team is to learn those characteristics and engineer the car and driver to maximise the performance for racing. So developing a tyre models for every class of racing hat might not be possible for sim racing game, but what is extremely important is the tyre model should reward really good drivers. Really good drivers learn to drive close to the limit but not over it and more put more load through which in turn generates more tyre temperature which in turn generates extra grip (as long as it remains within the temp window). IRL the tyre only heats when it is loaded and then cools dramatically on the straights depending on ambient/ track temps. The model needs have a much better bell curve to properly simulate a real tyre and reward a driver who can drive at or slightly over the grip level and generate the correct tyre temps. Instead iracing has made temperature the enemy.
We don't need to simulate anything to the F1 level, we don't need data to develop cars, we don't need to train racing drivers to that level where the smallest stuff can matter. We are here to have fun with realistic games. All we need is a car that acts like a car in every scenario, you don't even need to match anything perfectly, in fact it could be pretty far off even and still feel very realistic.
People keep bringing up the F1 stuff, its soo utterly pointless to compare anything with that. The average iracer doesn't even understand whats wrong with the tyres, they are concerned if they can hit a 100fps with their 3070 or whatever. Meanwhile the lowest budget F1 team has a server room with a cluster of cpus and gpus with the compute power of a 1000 times the mid to high tier gaming pc and its soul purpose is to run their sim. And I heard Roman Grosjean say recently they still mostly turned off temperature related stuff because its added a complexity to such an absurd level that even their stuff struggles to deal with it. Yet little timmy iRacing is trying to "simulate" tyre temps over here... Think about how absurd that is.
@ obviously you can’t read.
@@BG_36 Very kind of you to say that, thank you! Imagine thinking that was an attack or something lol, I was just trying to add things to what you have said but whatever... Whats wrong with people in this space... GM is right asking that constantly :D
@@gefx0164 well sorry but I didn’t understand your point. Can you it more concisely please
@@gefx0164 That one's kinda on you. I believe you that you didn't mean it that way but, "we don't need...we don't need...we don't need", comes off as very dismissive.
I read it as an attack. I have absolutely been guilty of doing the same thing.
I think iRacing has changed drastically over the last 11 years I've been a member. And although you might have some little changes from build to build which have added up to a big change long term, the cars still go faster in the same way. I don't think fundamentally the cars are gonna drive that much differently. But if the current tyre model can't simulate flat spots properly amongst other things it needs to be upgraded to be more realistic.
If the new model makes sliding feel more realistic and we get a blend of iRacing and assetto it could be great.
I have been a member since 2009 i think , The core method of driving the sim has always been "drive under the limit" Don't "Drive On the limit"
Yes things have changed , tires have had more or less grip , more or less prone to instant off behaviour , ware and exploits and a whole ton of things have been changed addressed and tweaked - but its swings and roundabouts over the core method of driving in the sim the "essence" of the driving if you will.
I genuinely think though if the majority of the suspension , under limit handling and everything else is basically the same but they can fix the on and over limit aspect iracing would probably be up there as one of the best driving sims for raw handling.
@@GamerMuscleVideos well iRacing are also probably thinking they have to lift their game with Assetto Corsa Evo coming soon also
@@kevinobrien4155 I think competition helps but I generally got the impression that iRacing mostly feel the pressure from themselves wanting to be better and direct feedback + research they do. I'm not sure how much other games would affect iracing given how established it is.
@@kevinobrien4155 I don't feel that AC EVO is actually a competitor for iRacing. iRacing is simply special in the regard that it is not just a sim but also the massive service around it that regularly allows you to jump into rated sessions with other similarly strong players etc. No other sim can compete with that. Meanwhile the AC Community is huge but it mostly doesn't even consist of "racers" but rather people who just roam around in mods, drift, cruise, try out weird stuff.
@@GamerMuscleVideos I’ve been a member since 2010, and back then, the tire model was much more forgiving, You could really throw the car into a corner and achieve a four-wheel slide without any major risks, which is how many fast drivers approached it, I believe it was around late 2010 when they made a drastic change with the new ffb and the first iteration of the NTM, introducing the "death slide" for the first time. this is still fresh for me because I still have the old version from 2010, which I downloaded from a torrent website a long time ago. Occasionally, I jump back into it just to remind myself how the sim used to drive! :D.
iRacers are not normal gamers, iRacers are waaaaay more forgiwing and actually for most part embrace all new changes, cause in all these years (over 10) I have not seen any change, where I would say oh shit, they ruined it. We have had many tyre model changes and we always have embraced them, dont see why now it would be any different.
Like the rain I didn't rush back to start renting the £500 pounds worth of stuff I have apparently "purchased" again. This is what they need to change, allow access to stuff you have "bought" offline, you tight bastard's.
@@fingers68 You purchased a license to use content in iRacing servers while your subscription is still valid.
A genuine thanks for your persistence in highlighting the iracing death slide, it’s the only sim I play a lot and I’m really looking forward to any improvement they make. Maybe they should reset everyone’s ir back to 2k once a year so we all have to get stuck in and not be so protective of our ivory tower.
Being unable to save a car from a slide when driving at the limit defeats the purpose of driving and racing, thats what makes driving so fun and satisfying driving at the limit and saving the car in a slide like its tokyo drift. This is amazing news, I still think they need to rebuild the game from the ground up, they keep trying to make graphics better but it still looks like a game from 2002 which it is.
NR2003 forever! But yeah, some lighting improvements would help a bunch
00:18 i often press the like button twice. once near the beginning, and once after about 10 minutes.
I’ve also been there since 2009. I must say, you seem to have forgotten that there have been several occasions where iRacing has made rather substantial physics changes that required everybody to adjust. This time will not be any different to any of those. Like all those times, we’ll complain, we’ll adjust, and we’ll continue onward.
Not once has iracing driven in a fundamentally realistic way at the limit which is why this would be more significant.
@ 🤷♂️ If that’s what you think. The point is I remember several occasions in the sim’s history where things changed very dramatically and we had to take several weeks to adjust. This will be no different. Regardless of what the various changes were, this will not be the first big change we ever get. We have had many.
@@GamerMuscleVideosNo sim has. Everyone says that iracing is harder to drive than IRL so you think making it easier to drive/more realistic is going to cause people to leave the service?
I joined iRacing in August 2008, before Daytona was released and when there was zero tire smoke. 😆
I would’ve joined from the beginning if I had known about it, but I didn’t even hear about it until near the end of 2009. I’m getting old. I was around for the first Papyrus titles, too, and the days of the first Thrustmaster wheels with bungie cord for a return spring. Hehe.
I love iRacing but a large part of the community are deluded in their constant proclamation that it has realistic FFB that is 100% a match to the real life cars. Marketing is a powerful tool! This is a sim where everyone - let me say it again 'everyone' runs the tyres of every car at absolute minimum tyre pressure! The tyre model is between broken and non existent! I can't wait to see the changes and hope they are significant. The current FFB does a really nice job of providing a sense of weight balance (in a completing unrealistic way through massive forces through the stearing - which is both wrong and great at the same time) but there is no sense of tyre grip in the FFB because there is no tyre model. Looking forward to the changes.
Yeah, the FFB is competent but man does it need an update when you see what it could be when driving other sims.
Well said. It’s good and fun but not realistic . I got bored of where Iracing is. Hopefully the tire model could be the change
they tend to be the same people that claim ACs ffb is all canned effects which is utter bs.. was reading a forum thread from 7 years ago and the only canned effects in AC is the abs and maybe slip if i remember correctly and this was from a dev
When youre at that high a level of sim racing youre going to exploit it one way or another. Lets just say the devs dont care enough about top sim racer opinions to change their model to suit😂 good day
For me race is adaptation, that wouldn't be a problem if the change was for the better. But I see that there are two types of drivers, those who feel and adapt and those who are methodical and do the same and expect the same result.
Not wanting to change the tire model because drivers are comfortable is a terrible reason not to update the model.
I think the community will embrace realism over laptimes.
i think it will actually help me a lot. I haven't driven in quite some time and even then one race every two months on averagebut my style of driving is very aggressive (rally school of thought) I throw the car in the turn and then handle the rear; in iRacing i had the problem that it was snapping violently and unexpectedly making it very hard to catch the oversteer and even if you do your tyres were practically dead
Mate community owe you big one for pushing the devs. Your feedback is normally spot on.
Lol they won't have listened to me I'm just a moron youtuber that happens to like FFB wheels and sims , it will have been the droves of real world drivers winging + iracing simply wanting to improve the sim then having resources and time to do that.
@@GamerMuscleVideos with all the AI hype, and amount of data race cars collect you think we could create an ai model for each car combo
As someone who just renewed their iRacing subscription on the Black Friday sales, this is great news!
The trade off is worth it - I can’t stand the limit issue of the tires.
16 year + iRacer and Sim Racing since 1999. I'm happy to learn new tires and the drastic changes they need to make. If I can do that at age 52 so can everyone else.
I still have ptsd from the Ford GT. It was undrivable initially, iracing said it supposed to be like this, this is realistic. Then they "upgraded" the physics and it was a completely different car.
I think the Henry Ford quote, "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses", applies here. iracing has actually done a great job rolling back changes that do not work or get major pushback. I say. be happy with thier development and expierimentation. You never know when they will strike gold and find something incredible.
10:25 majority of those are community decided in the forums - only real exception is NASCAR (follows IRL schedule except for winter off season period), Formula Ford open (decided by Motorsport UK reps as of next season) and the rookie series or new content series that didn't already have a community base, and of course stuff like draft master etc.
I've been a member for 11 years, I'm not upset by changes anymore. Changes in the tires is MUCH NEEDED
14 years here, the tire model is worlds ahead of where it was
I picked up iRacing during the pandemic like everyone else. I immediately gave up on it because the tire model was so bad. Like you were saying, I never felt like I could "lean" on the tires at all. It felt like having to drive through a school zone with a cop behind you. You HAD to keep it under the limits at all times, because if you stepped over the limit by even a hair.... that was it, you're gone. I had been doing track days and autocross in real life for 10 years at that point, and iRacing destroyed my confidence in my real driving.
Hopefully they can make the tire model so that it actually reacts realistically over the limit. There should not be a performance cliff for the tires where if you exceed 100%, grip just disappears completely.
This is the first video that has ever made me consider going back to iRacing.
I think it's great they constantly develop the sim and they listen.
6:51 well, that explains my issues with traction loss etc. Sim drifter, then get on Iracing and the tyres just feel weird at the limit.
i've been on iRacing since it's inception basically & have seen alot of tire model changes - it'll go over fine (fun fact: the og OTM was pretty mcuh running it sideways at all times on the NASCAR stuff)
Soooo.....what are the changes??
It will make it easier to drive, so people will be happy imo, it's very hard to drive on the limit atm because it just snaps and kill you if you are 1% over the limit. Also it will allow different driving types instead of you must be super smooth and do the same dull inputs and you are not allowed to adjust inputs
As a newbie in iracing with some irl track experience I can't wait for this
Whilst I agree with you that a large part of iRacing's fanbase will get absolutely irate over tyre physics changes, it was something I'd felt the Sim needed for a long time.
I have two things that I think is necessary to improve for iRacing.
Tiremodell and net code. If the tires where more like AC it would be perfect.
Today something is very wrong, you can’t feel the tires and the limit of them.
And then we have net code, which is just very very bad and frustrating.
Hope it will be a sufficient improvement with the update.
@@mdahlis you learn through sight instead of feel it almost seems. The edge is so abrupt, its hard to know where it actually is.
@@SimRacingCentral529 I've been running Cup Car a lot recently and those cars are notorious for snap oversteer. You gotta use your ears as well.
Anything update that makes the car more realistic shouldn't even be a debate. We love iracing for the realism, the more realistic the better
This video is insanely positive, thinking that after 17 years iRacing will actually make a huge change to their tires. Maybe, but it has been really the same since 1998 when GPL came out.. I hope .. but am not as positive :)
I cooked a whole chicken in my air fryer today and all that hot air influenced my cynicism in ways I'm sure I'll regret.
Great couple of vids, Iracing - smooth = fast. That is what I like so much about iRacing. It’s so obvious when you don’t use the entire track air if you over drive the car. But yeah the tires going off if you lean on them is a bit annoying and unless you really really pay attention to the last few corners boom off you go. If that gets better then yay.
This is iracing we're talking about. We will all renew our subscriptions since we have stockholm syndrome.
New tire model can only be a good thing anyway.
It cant be bad. If a new tire model is so bad that everything goes tits up it still wont matter because nobody else does online better 😂
Tires in all forms are racing are constantly changing and evolving as manufacturers try to better understand their tires. As with real world racing, tire models in sim racing should benefit from regular updates as well. If all else fails they can revert back to the old model
If the physics truly become more realistic, then the upgrade would be great.
Not the first time iracing has changed things. People adapt. I think this will benefit people who don’t have top end gear also. Like me.
Perhaps iRacing has an advantage with this change because of their marketing of always striving for the most realistic simulator. So if they do their PR right and warn people ahead of time maybe they can prepare people for the new practice and changes to their driving they will have to do. But of course there will always be complaints.
Have tried iR at multiple points over the last 15 or so years. Never once sank its teeth into me. No hatred, just not driven by a persitent online racing career of sorts and the driving itself felt middle of the road by sim standards at those points in history.
I think the first time I gave it a shot, it took a couple days before I was back in GTR2. They've built an impressive platform and community, but the driving itself has never been at the front of the pack. It would be easy to sit here and pick apart the delusional and ridiculous members of iR's community, but frankly the entire hobby is filled to the brim with those types. Usually the most vocal of which have never laid rubber to tarmac on a real track, but are somehow the standard holders for "realism."
I was very impressed at what they put together with the recent wet driving implementation. If they can truly evolve the driving dynamics and tire modeling, I might just find myself with a subscription again. Here's to hoping they pull off something great.
New user to iracing here, can't wait for these changes
Most will probably hang around, the hundreds or thousands of dollars spent on the sim will be a strong motivator to keep at it.
I’ve been playing iracing for years it’s pretty much the only racing sim that I do. I disagree with you saying most iracers don’t think there is a problem with the physics. The cars have never been good once they start sliding. It’s more a case of excepting that every sim has its flaws but as a package iracing is still the leading sim and most competitive. I don’t think that to many people will be upset if it makes it a bit easier to recover from spins or less likely to get taken out from slight door banging.
Most iracers think it just needs a tweek here and there , they won't admit that you can't drive cars in some of the most basic ways one should be able to.
@ maybe your right in general but that’s not my experience from speaking to the guys within my little discord bubble.
Its the people on the forums that auto disagree with anyone criticising iracing. Those are the 1%
Oh it will be fine. Many iRacers race all the other sims too so. Also, it’s not like it’s really bad now, just still too much issues ‘on the limit’ as you mention. All of this should make for better racing and hopefully less mayhem (wishful thinking I know).
I’m very excited for it as long as it is mostly what they’ve promised. I came from those other sims where you can realistically run the car on the ragged edge for a limited time without automatically becoming one with the barrier.
It's going to ruin the robotic muscle memory inputs we've learned?
Good.
I think you may have missed the point of iRacing, which is it's a simulator more so than a game. If the tyre model makes the tyres behave like real tyre do, and we have to adjust to a different way of driving that adds to the emmersion, then that's what we are paying for, isn't it? If it means that tyres degrade so that someone that goes real hard at the start of a race ends up with slower lap times and is beaten by someone that looked after their tyres, then that's simulation isn't it. In fact, that will be bloody brilliant.
As a driver in real life, fundamental changes are immersive to the experience. Race classes change spec tires all the time and you are always constantly "relearning" how to drive a car.
New tires are not really equivalent to the laws of physics in the universe changing
This explains why I am fast IRL but slow AF in iRacing.
I like what I hear here and can't wait for the changes to happen.
It won’t be a risk, people have sunk way too much money in to the game to pull the plug. The cost sunk fallacy will keep people playing and iRacing will use that for sure
Didn't watch the whole thing, but: Learn new stuff every day and challenge your brain. Don't just stick to the old stuff, because you are trained to do it. Oh, and most important: Have fun! ;)
Love your content, baldman!
Raceroom, AC, AMS2, iRacing - I like'em all. Paused iRacing since RaceRooms awesome September Update. Would love to try LMU, but I am online racing stuff with decent VR implementation.
I remember back in the day when they went from Counter-Strike 1.5 (Pre Steam) to Counter-Strike 1.6 (Post Steam) and people didn't like the changes they did with some people refusing to play the new Steam only version for a long while after it came out.
The sunk cost fallacy will keep 3/4 of members around, just won’t be getting as many new subscribers if they don’t fix the tyre model and the ffb. The competition is heating up which is awesome for sim racing
We can thank acc and ac2 for shaking up the game. Iracing will have to do something to avoid losing potential new simracers 😂
@@comdrive3865 ams2...
I'm primarily an oval racer so I was very excited to see it's being added to the Cup Car before a full implementation. The Cup Car desperately needs better tyres.
I look forward to the changes. Like when they changed grass which was super slippery and now is manageable, I expect iRacing to introduce an improvement. As long as irl drivers are giving their inputs and the sim is translating that for me, I’m fine with re-learning everything again.
I really hope they nail it and I can feel the car more connected to the road. I really don’t appreciate how sometimes I lose the car and I cannot even explain why.
I really enjoy iRacing for the competition, however I could never get a proper handle on the tire physics. IRacing has taught me to fear the limit, unlike my real world experience in autocross and track days. Improving the tire model to be more accurate is nothing but a good thing and I think most will welcome it. Remaining stagnant will just result in falling behind the other simulators. If anyone here has bought a newer better set of pedals for example, it can take some time to adjust and return to your prior form. That's also a risk. One could argue that a better tire model could attract more outside interest in iRacing as well.
We want iRacing to be the best it can be so yes, we want the updates. Doesn't make any sense to stop updating the tire model.
Or there’s the counter argument that the new tyre model will inject life into the sim.
You would hope so
100%
I Agree, I also think a lot of iRacers have Stockholm syndrome (myself included) and whatever iRacing do they will lap it up.
5:46 In no other sim, you brake in a straight line, on a non abs car, just at very edge of locking up, then go turn in and the rear just comes around on you
edit: IRL braking technique for non abs cars just doesn’t work on iracing
I remember v7 tire change, in the middle of my league endurance season. Took me a long time to adjust. Even binned it in the race on lap two in t1 on my stint halfway into the race.
Iracing has gone through many tire changes, ice tire, less ice tire, v7, apparently 3 more models, and now 11.
As long as it does not become acc tire pressure micro managing.
Less overheating and better heat recovery please.
But change away if it improoves.
Lmp2 for example is a bit outside, it allowes more slip than any other car, if more cars allows being able to play around more on the tires I welcome it.
Even if it does become like ac youll still play because of sunk cost 😂
long time iracer here, idc what they do with the tires.
adapt or die, I’m gonna play either way
I actually struggle a bit when I push with death slides so I really wonder if this new model might help me so I actually think this might benefit me (watch my irating crumble now) but it’s one of the main issues with my driving is I slide a lot so am quite excited about this new model to see if it makes me and other drivers any faster because I also see massive death slides that I think in other games would be fine or at least a catchable slide
Most drivers will complain about something till the end of time, people will adapt and iracing has mostly a monopoly on competitive online racing
I think the smartest move iracing has made in the last few years was hiring Terence Groening - excited to see the fruits of his work. Personally, I think you might be overstating the risks due to your long history of pointing out the current limitations of the sim, particularly tires. I think in reality most sim racers share your thoughts that the sim has limitations, offset of course by it's compelling competitive structure and voice chat :-) I think broadly they'll be delighted, and frankly their such adamant product fanboys they'll all be beating you to the 'game changer' videos, with barely a twitch of self refection that their previous assertations, 'the most realistic sim' were, let's be kind, erm, 'creative'.
I'm on iRacing since 2011, my muscle memory has been thru anything already. Really looking forward to the update as I'm mostly interested in open wheelers and there are little other options anyway. I hope it will increase accessibility and popularity of those these - well, all - cars.
why on earth is this genius wearing a cap inside! :)
As a bald git head gets cold and its nice to simulate having hair with a hat sadly iracing knitted the hat and it sometimes slips off my head with no warning when it gets too warm.
If tyres behave a lot better in future iRacing, then it's worth the tiny "re-learning" needed for a more realistic behavior "at the edge of the grip"...
As an 8.5k driver I'd love to see the model updated. The GT3 model is completely broken, currently.
I race almost exclusively asphalt oval cars, and they have become MUCH too easy to drive.... I don't know if this addresses that, but if it does, GREAT!
About your comment on the opinions of authorities:
I agree that we shouldn’t care, and should just drive what we like to drive. But I’m much more likely to gravitate to a sim that an IRL driver prefers, because I feel like what I’m learning in it is more accurate to IRL driving. Will I ever be a real race car driver, do any of the skills I learn from sim racing actually matter? Not at all. But knowing that what I’m learning could translate to real race car driving gets me soooooo much more enjoyment.
It’s why I like other sims like flight sim for example. Feels like I’m learning real “skills” even if it’s not fully accurate or if I’ll ever use them.
Thanks for what you do in our little niche, always encouraging discussion, constructive criticism, and just having fun!
Microsoft Flight Simulator has a good tyremodel also
Changes are better then no changes. You can roll it back if it doesnt stick
I would aim to say most iRacers biggest dislike is the present tire model. Heck for both on and off-road. Off-road the cars act like they're on ice. The constant complaint is being afraid to find the tire's limits. People love most everything else in iRacing, but I always hear about the cars feeling unpredictable above the limit. As an iRacer myself I totally agree. Especially for those on less powerful Nm racing wheels. It sure makes it like racing in the rain on most other sim racing games. Also the current ABS overheating the outer tire surface is nonsense in most real world usage. You hit abs a little extra in iRacing and you'll find yourself halfway through the turn with sudden massive under steer as the tires are now overheated on surface temps. Can't wait to see what they release personally.
I think anyone who's played other sims and has been doing iracing for awhile will welcome new tires. I don't love the feel of the current tires and look forward to change but I will say the one good thing the current tires do is punish people for driving over their heads which might help the quality of the racing.
I personally think iracing changing the tyre physics is a very good thing, making the driving experience more realistic. Also for the longevity of the sim. With AC Evo being released in the next few weeks I racing needs to try to stay at the top. People are resilient, they will get used to it. That’s my opinion anyway.
The "casual" Iracers might think that there is nothing wrong. But I can tell you that the top guys def think its shit.
I'm pretty good and drive with good drivers and we don't really complain. Sure it's not entirely realistic, but it's its own challenge and I enjoy it.
It's funny then how all the top guy prefer iRacing over anything else then
I tried almost every simulator. Really wanted to like iRacing cause of its system. Now where Dev Blog states tire walls are literally static walls I can understand why I ditched iRacing for other sims. Only reason people keep playing iRacing is malicious prizing & subscription model. FOMO goes crazy there. Streamers just prefer iRacing cause they can make money with their fans using their referal code.
@@RonaldRegain did you really just say people play iRacing BECAUSE it's expensive 😂😂😂😂
The only real difference between a Casual Iracer and a Top Iracer is the Casual has a "Life"🏁
Good vid Mr Muscle, some good points in there. Changing the tyre model will certainly be enough to bring me back for another try - I tried it and didn't like it quite a few years ago now but moved to The Most Realistic Driving Simulator ACC. Maybe this change will bring some other people back as well. Thank you.
I'm an Oval nut. I would very much like a new tire models.
Bring on the new tires! Just as in life, change and discomfort are going to happen in racing.
I'd like a tire that rewards being able to be marginally quick but saving tires is also an option.
The change will probably also bring new people in to it.
For me i would be interested in the service, if it had tyre physics. It's probably the last missing piece from it
Risky or not, it's a step they have to take. I race on ovals, and I want it to be as real as possible. I'll relearn whatever I need to if the experience is closer to the real thing.
It'll be fine! Been Iracing since the start, Papy before that. Under Papy, we got new software almost every year and it got more popular. The one that are going to have issues are the ones with the trick setups that few have. They will have to start over for a while.
I have actually watched some talented racers that can jump in any car and lap with the best in a few laps. I was watching the racing school at the track I worked at back decades ago (Summit Point). The instructor (and track owner at the time) used to get pissed at least once a session and jump into a Pinto and almost lap his whole class in Formula Ford cars.
I enjoy driving in iracing. I've never had an issue other than i don't like how expensive it is. I suspect that's true for many of the people complaining about it, that don't even use it.
Most Iracers are hooked and will stick around. Iracing has major things no other sim can match like Oval racing , huge selection of cars and tracks { at a cost of course } and ease of finding a race. PLEASE bring on the new tire model , it will hopefully be the icing this cake has needed for a long time !
I have to agree with this in some regard. Take ACC for example. I had a lot of hours racing it daily during Covid and well into 2022, racing & competing in multiple competitive leagues. Then Kunos changed the tire model and I found it so agonizing to re-learn to drive the sim, so much so that I jumped ship and went over to iRacing.... so here is hoping I am not about to go through that experience again.
This excites me actually. I like how it feels driving in LMU
iRacing's GT7 moment? Let's see if they cause cars to fly up the skies with the physics update!
Its been years since the last tire update its about time we get a overall. especially on the oval side of things
Development support from the developer of RFactor pros tire model that teams and manufacturers use.
I can wait for the update. iRacing has come a long way since the iSkating days. If we can get a tire model that allows is to "dance" on the limit of the tire, then I'm all for it.
The hallmark to a good physics model is how a car feels beyond the limit. iRacing is very very good under the limit but its probably one of the worst beyond that point.
Would be really cool if the new tyre model enables them to potentially add a Formula Drift kind of event. Because with the old/current model, that would be impossible.
Ive always wanted iRacing to require less gaming skills and more driving skills that you naturally just "do" rather than learn to do to be fast in the SIM.
I've been waiting for the new tire model for a long time. Up until now the only real valid reason to race on iRacing was the number of people on-line and the amount of championships available
I think something that might buffer the potential fall out is the “where else are they gonna go” element that iRacing has.
Yeah, we’ve got a few good options and Evo on the way but nothing else has the foothold iRacing has at all, so even if they left, I’d wager they’d find their way back eventually.
The biggest unknown factor imo is Evo though. Depending on how quickly early access ramps up, and how integrated their online components are, that could legitimately take some ground back, but who knows right now.
People will be annoyed for a day or two until they get used to it. Knowing it's more realistic will make everyone happy about it even if it feels awkward for a week. So.. it's a positive in the long run and not a risk at all.
The biggest issue with tires is they are too hard. Hence all the cars you just run min pressure and never touch it again. I can only speak for autocross and track days on both very high level street tires and slicks, but there is no give and squirm in the tires. You can feel the tire flexing vs the suspension and chassis moving. The more sidewall you have, the more noticeable it is. But, even low profile tires flex a fair bit. That flex is the buffer between pushing the limit and crashing. Even slicks are a little more forgiving in real life. But they will bite you a lot harder than street tires when you over do it.
I'm super excited for this change. I play iracing because the one part of the physics that it does better than any other sim is how the weight of the car feels, but at the same time I lament the tire model because of exactly this issue. I came from grassroots level motorsports in real life for years before i ever got into simracing, so I have this idea in my head of how a car feels to drive and I look for whatever sim can get the closest to that. So far it's always been iracing and beamng, and the main reason for both is because of the way weight transfer feels and how the car reacts to it. But both sims also have really poor tire models that discourage driving on the very limit, especially iracing, you're kinda forced to stay just under the limit as you described. I hate it, and I can't wait for this change, I hope it's everything I've wanted iracing's tire model to be for years!