Why the Classic/Modern Sonic Split is Dumb and I Hate it
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ธ.ค. 2023
- #sonicthehedgehog #sonicfrontiers #sonicsuperstars
Like, I seriously, really, unironically, for realzies hate it. It's dumb.
This video was such a pain to edit, uh like and sub please? - เกม
This is a comment from another video, but I feel like I should repost it here cause it's more relevant to this video.
I really don't like the idea of Classic Sonic being Modern Sonic as a kid. It breaks things a lot more than people realize.
To start off, Classic Sonic back in the day was used interchangeably between Adventure/Modern Sonic. From Modern being used in the boxart for Sonic Mega Collection (as stated in this video), to Adventure 1 flashbacks using the Adventure designs instead of the Classic designs, Metal Sonic switching to his modern design in Sonic 4 despite being stuck on little planet from Sonic CD, and Sonic Adventure's Pinball minigame using classic designs for the icons.
Generations even fits this concept to some degree. Whenever Classic saves a friend, they usually point out his appearance or refer to him as looking entirely different from the Sonic they know, like Knuckles teasing him for having a rounder belly (even though he should remember this from Sonic 3). The only one who seems to view Classic Sonic as younger is Amy, but that's probably just because he's shorter and cuter than Modern. Even Modern Sonic's last line for Classic Sonic "Hey Sonic, enjoy your future, it's gonna be great!" could be him saying that in a meta sense, as if he were talking to Sonic from 1991 in 2012. The whole birthday thing could be seen as the cast celebrating the franchise's anniversary and not Sonic's literal birthday since they never mention his age.
All of this makes Generations feel like a non-canon filler episode, like the Dr.Slump crossover in Dragon Ball Super. It's not supposed to be taken seriously. Maybe this was why Classic Sonic was said to be from another "dimension" or "era" (whatever it's supposed to be) in Forces because Classic was never Modern. They both went through the events of the genesis era as shown in Sonic Adventure, but Classic doesn't grow into Modern, they just switch artstyles. Though I should make it clear that I dislike Classic's inclusion in Forces. There's no reason why an anniversary character should return in a Modern game.
So for all of the reasons stated above, you can see why I dislike the new retcon right? It's bad because it limits what Sega can do with the Classic Sonic games, Classic designs (example: Classic Shadow), and in general doesn't make any sense to me. This retcon doesn't work in the canon because if we were to de-age the Classic cast to be younger than the Modern cast, some of the ages wouldn't make sense.
Classic Sonic is shown to be just under Modern Tails' height, so if we de-age them consistently, Classic Sonic would be no older than 8 years. And because there's a 7 year difference between Sonic and Tails, wouldn't that make Classic Tails a 1 year old?? And what about Cream? She's supposed to be 6 years, yet stands at around the same height as Classic Tails. You can't make Classic Sonic 12-13 years because then he would have to be around the same height as Modern Amy (which is nearly equal to Modern Sonic). It would also be a pretty drastic change to go from Classic to Modern in only 2-3 years. All of it just wouldn't work without breaking too many rules.There doesn't need to be an answer for why Classic characters are shorter and cuter, they just look like that.
And then there's Classic Eggman compared to Modern Eggman. Does there need to be a reason to justify how different he looks from Modern Eggman even though they're both middle-aged? Ocarina of Time Ganondorf never needed a reason to justify why he looks different in Wind Waker so why should Eggman? And going back to Sonic 4, how does Metal Sonic change into his modern design while broken and stuck on little planet? This calls into question Sonic 4's placement in the timeline because Metal still uses his Classic design from Sonic Adventure to Heroes.
The problem here is that all of these questions wouldn't need weird cop-out answers if this retcon simply didn't exist. All of this can be explained away as the artstyle changing between games and moving on. It didn't have to get this complicated.
The consequences of this retcon imply that no Classic Sonic title can take place before Adventure because now Classic canonically grows into Adventure. We can never have a Classic Shadow or a Classic Blaze because of this. And don't tell me a Classic Shadow wouldn't work because nothing stopped Nintendo from redesigning Ganondorf to fit the cute bubbly art style of Wind Waker while still looking cool. And now if Sega ever wanted to introduce a new classic character like Trip, they have to find a way to cram them somewhere in between the Genesis and Adventure era which is really awkward. We'll probably also never see the Chaos emerald abilities from Sonic SuperStars again because that would obviously mess with the current lore, so now they're forever tied to the North Star islands which will likely never come back in a future game. Now this is even affecting gameplay mechanics.
These problems wouldn't exist if SuperStars was simply the latest game in the timeline. There wouldn't even need to be cop-out answers to justify it. Just have Sonic and friends go straight to the North Star islands after their adventure on the Star Fall islands. There also wouldn't need to be an explanation for where Trip has been for the past 20 or so games since she'd be a brand new character. This really annoys me because if Sega ever wants to make a game with a more cute/welcoming artstyle like the supposedly leaked Sonic mobile game, it's gonna use something like the souless looking Sonic and Friends artstyle just so they have access to characters like Shadow when Classic would've been perfect. I also agree that Classic characters should be used in Modern media too, there's no reason why they can't show up anymore.
Sorry for the extremely long comment, but this has never sat right with me as I love the Classic style as much as the Modern style and would love to see it used more often for smaller spin-off titles or larger projects and not just 2d platformers so it sucks that we'll likely never get that. We need more people talking about this.
We do need more people talking about this, and I read your entire comment despite it's length because the purpose of my videos is to spark conversation like this. I wish we could get more viewpoints from other Sonic ytubers on the matter but as for your perspective I pretty much agree with it all. You're one of the view in this comment section who has actually understood where I'm coming from on the matter, thank you for the extensive comment I appreciate it!
@@MiguelMustNerd Thanks for actually taking the time to read it! I’m sorry I couldn’t condense this comment into something shorter, I just had too much to say about this lol.
i couldn't read all but i read some and i agree
@@aredbomb5992 It's amazing how inconsistent it all is, and incredibly frustrating that this entire divide only came about because of how much the "fans" were whining about Sonic's damn eye colour in Sonic 4.
@@bowmaj8666 The arguments are really dumb for sure, there’s nothing we can really do about that, but I don’t think bringing Classic back was a mistake. Plenty of franchises switch up their art styles all the time to reflect a certain vibe they want to go for, like the classic style Micky Mouse reboot co-existing with the current Micky Mouse, so it should make sense to bring Classic Sonic back.
I believe Sega’s actual mistake was turning Classic Sonic into a separate character and officially including him in the lore with games like Mania and Forces. Because these games exist, Generations has to be canon so now they have to scramble to fix the inconsistencies by either claiming he’s from another “dimension” or that he’s now a kid version of Sonic.
The reason why fans continue to argue over wether Classic Sonic should stay or leave is because Sega keeps limiting themselves by giving all of the 2d titles to Classic instead of attempting a Modern 2d Sonic game. They could be more flexible if they just reverted him back to being an art style instead of making him a separate character who can only exist in the past. Sega’s attempt to nostalgia-bait us in Forces with Classic Sonic gameplay is what got us in this situation. (Why are my comments always this long)
It made sense to have two Sonics in Generations. Then it was a brilliant idea (from a marketing perspective) to bring Classic Sonic back for Forces, but they completely botched the execution, and now the Sonics just kinda exist in parallel for no real reason.
They don't, Ian undid that retcon
No they don't
@gengargamer5i657 Ian didn't do anything
@@reggielacey2235 Except for debunk it directly
I disagree about Forces. Classic had no reason to be there, at all.
After Generations, when Classic Sonic went back to the past, he now had a branching timeline making him from a different “dimension”. “Modern” Tails wouldn’t remember events in Mania because it didn’t happen in his past. The goal of this was to make Classic Sonic games that didn’t affect the “canon” of Modern Sonic, instead having it’s own.
No WaY sOmEoNe FoUnD A wAy FoR sOnIc PoCkEt AdVeNtUrE tO bE cAnOn 😱😱😱😱
Exactly
Ok I just realized tails probably got affected by the constant time travels, THUS not remembering sonic mania
im pretty sure this is just a head cannon and the dimension thing was a miss translation but im pretty sure that was also disproving so idk
Sega retconned it again. Now it’s just the past and the games are one timeline.
I think it's absolutely absurd that the Adventure games are considered "modern" simply due to containing the same character design referred to as "Modern Sonic", despite the fact they're over 20 years old.
Shadow The Hedgehog is where the new model originated and that is also about to turn 20 years old
so what? it's what i called it. I called it new sonic but it's the same. Modern fits because of the aesthetic.
That’s because they haven’t changed him since. He’s the modern design. Sure graphically parts of him changed but he hasn’t had a full redesign like when he went from classic. Boom Sonic doesn’t count because he’s barely different, only existed for those games and series, and they went back to modern Sonic’s design for the games.
I feel like this was done to keep fans from considering it something else, like boost and adventure sonic play nothing alike. sega doesn't want more splits than they already have in the sonic fandom.
Even sillier since a kid in station square thanks you for saving little planet.
Another problem I have with Classic Sonic is sticking to him being mute. Technically Mario is mute in his old NES/SNES games, but it's never implied he "just doesn't talk as a rule" he just didnt because hardware limitations. Classic Sonic is the same, he even had a line in Sonic CD they fit onto the cartridge, and everyone instantly links Jaleel White's portrayal to classic sonic thanks to the TV shows, whose energy did carry over for the character moving forward. I would like him a lot more if he was allowed to be a character, same with the other "classic" counterparts. They are doomed to be static mascots and not characters. Superstars none of the main cast had character, it was Trip who had a character arc. This goes into Sega not budging on letting their characters grow and change in a meaningful way (though that is more affected in the IDW comics)
If I recall correctly, the reason Classic Sonic is mute is because they had a VA lined up, but the plan fell through, so they just… like… didn’t give him any lines, as if finding another VA was impossible?
@@jennytulls6369 if thats true then that makes me even sadder :c
@@jennytulls6369 iirc the original plan was to have classic adventure and modern sonic together, and classic would've brought back Jaleel White as a VA for him
I, as a massive Sonic Fan myself, like Modern and Classic as they are, also SEGA have gone on record to say that the line "Oh, you're that Sonic from another dimension, aren't you" wasn't accurate, and that Classic Sonic Is still young Modern Sonic.
Thank god
So that’s means I can say there’s a time skip between (insert recent classic Sonic game here) and Pocket Adventure
at least they had the guts to retcon it
The classic sonic in forces is not the one from generations it’s the one from sonic mania
@@commandercody4984The Classic Sonic from Generations, Mania, and Forces are all one and the same.
@@commandercody4984The fact that what Modern and Classic Sonic are is even a debate means Sega royally fucked up.
Personally, my only problem is classic sonic is cute
Not to sound mad, but he was never intended to nor should be this nice laid back character
Hes sassy and cocky
The cool kid of the 90s
Iizuka said classic is for the younger fans, modern for older. Thats why they depict him that way
You make an interesting point, Sonic as a whole was conceptualized as a "Mascot with Attitude." He's pretty much the reason why that phrase exists. In a way, this was kinda the point of modern Sonic, at least initially. They made him older, taller, with longer spikes to get rid of the cute look and to give him sort of a "bad boy" look. You can see this in a lot of the poses in Sonic Adventure, especially the iconic one on the cover. They knew Sonic was cool, but modern Sonic as pretty much made to LOOK cool
not even of the 90s. Sassy and cocky is still considered cool lol
@@quickup7530 fair point, but don’t forget the original sassy sonic captured the minds and hearts of kids the same, if not better in the 90s
I remember the moment I saw classic Sonic in the Forces trailer. It immediately became 'oh no' for me.
First, it was supposed to be a just a one-game gimmick (just like wisps, well..)
Second, Forces was teased as a high-stakes, more serious Adventure-like plot game, and here we get a joyful little Sonic breaking a rock with a childish smile.
I found a fan video that showed how Classic could have contributed to the more heavy tone. Basically after Classic Sonic ends up in the future with Tails, he gets bodied by Chaos, and Tails rescues him. Being in an unfamiliar, apocalyptic world and still recovering from Chaos’s attack, Tails is the one to take the lead this time
Also, a bonus was that the video didn’t have Tails cower and call for Sonic, but instead uses Omega’s arm cannon to take care of Chaos, which was just awesome
@@jennytulls6369 I think I've also seen this animation, still it's a retroactive fan attempt to rectify or build upon what already exists.
When I first noticed the difference between classic and modern as a young kid, I simply thought of it as an alternate look for the character. And that's all it should be.
Thats how most normal people look at it. In toys stores, they have both Modern and Classic artwork on the same box and most people dont care other than "Sonic drawn in different ways."
These Classic vs Modern arguments are just from Twitter people. Like this TH-cam guy. Take a break from Twitter and into the real world, the same box that has a Classic Sonic toy inside of it may have a modern Sonic box artwork. Most people dont care. People that spend too much time arguing on Twitter care
@@chaomix4494 Oh come on, he literally said how it affects the games. Sonic Superstars could've had Shadow but because it was a "claaassic" game it couldn't even though he could've just been made in that art style, the problem can be that simple.
@@chaomix4494 Quite frankly I don't use twitter, but I do understand where you're coming from. I just wanted to give my basic view on this debate.
nah modern sonic is older, thats why modern says the future ahead of you will be great to classic sonic at the end of generations.
exactly! Now if only SEGA remembered Sonic is just Sonic, not two seprate people, that would be great
The another dimension dialogue is actually a mistranslation, in the original japanese dialogue tails just state another world which could also imply as in "another world in time".
Yeah, and of course in the TailsTube episode with Amy Rose, they did went over about Classic Sonic being his younger self from the past(being the Classic Era games), and the Modern Sonic we know of is the one that Classic Sonic grew up to be(being the Adventure games all the way up to Frontiers and Dream Team).
I remember them saying that espio, charmy and vector and now exclusively modern characters. Really showing how hard they are trying to keep modern and classic sonic separated now
it mainly is sonic team post heroes not caring of characters they didn't make or any collabortive effort in making this is how sticks just about manages to still be a thing post boom but it is funny if you do some research marine is a character made by sonic team whom haven't used since her first and only appearance but she is listed as one. hooligans, ray and mighty along with classic chaotix were made independent from sonic team and with heroes they just decided to reboot the chaotix with completely different personalities and the classic forms cease to exist more so then the others mentioned and since heroes they had 0 interest in using them unless a studio like whitehead had any intrest in them
actually in tails-tube which is canon they actually talk about the classic versions of the chaotix + mighty and ray
@@DrJose2014 Let’s be real, what’s in canon the sonic series doesn’t hold weight that much anymore
I heard something like that. Apparently a fan asked someone at Sega if Mighty and Ray would be appearing in any newer games with updated designs (coloured irises) and voices, and they replied "no, cos they're exclusively Classic characters!"
And now it's the same with the Chaotix? If Sega are so obsessed with bringing back older characters and designs, then you'd think that bringing back Espio, Charmy and Vector's original designs would be the next logical step, but "nope, they're exclusively Modern characters!"
There's also the fact that at this point there are literally no other popular Classic Sonic game characters from the 90's that they can potentially bring back, so how far can this "Classic" series really last? They've already had to resort to introducing new characters into the games (Trip) and yet they're marketing them as "Classic characters!" What exactly makes them Classic? The fact that they have black irises? So whenever a Sonic game introduces a new character, people start complaining with their usual "Urgh, Sonic's stinky friends! Urgh, too many characters" crap, and yet when this "New Classic" series does the same thing, then nobody bats an eyelid? Jeeze, it really is all about the eye colour for you people, isn't it? The only reason that we even got a Classic Sonic in the first place is because whiners were complaining about "that ugly, stretched out, green eyed imposter!" Seriously, why Sega thinks that whiners like these deserve to be catered to is beyond me.
@@bowmaj8666I think it’s because popular opinion changes, that and how sonic friends nad is now regarded as a bad opinion
I mean they already confirmed that Classic Sonic is now back to being just younger Modern Sonic to the point where Sonic Superstars could NEVER have modern artwork on it like Gems or Mega collection did.
You could argue that because of its 2.5D nature you would be able to clearly tell that they are different characters. But even as early as Mania it would've been impossible to market a classic game with modern artwork because Generations drew such a stark line between the 2 characters.
You all dont understand the business. Iizuka said that Classic Sonic games are most played by younger gamers. It has nothing to do with generations.
Whatever numbers Iizuka has says those Classic rereleases on Mobile are played by a younger demographic.
Thing is, this opens up an inconsistency that splitting the timeline patched up: How none of the cast remember Generations (Classic Side), Mania, Forces (Classic Side), and even Superstars. I mean, in Gens, Sonic remembers Secret Rings, but not bumping into his future self.
@@chaomix4494 this doesn't really make much sense considering the recent classic games have been a lot more challenging than the Modern Sonic ones (baring the Final Horizon lol)
Also, I don't really know why people keep bringing up the business size of series as a defense of classic sticking around. You wanna know what game they made for marketing reasons? Shadow the Hedgehog, lmao.
@@chaomix4494why are u pretending to be chaomix
When the words “But Even Heroes Need Help” show up in the trailer, I thought they finally gonna have more playable characters again like Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, etc.
But as soon as Classic Sonic showed up I was mad as hell and lost interest in the game because I was so tired of Sonic being the only option and I thought having CS was unnecessary when he had a whole game to himself in Mania the game that was announced right before Forces.
Ikr, this game had so much potential, but they just screwed it up 😫
To be honest the 2000s is something I kinda miss about this specific point in time for Sonic.
Not only did the Mega Collection have the modern branding in the classic games it also featured the comics quite prominently, and when you jump into Sonic Adventure DX that game had some Sonic X stuff injected in too.
It really felt like the brand as a whole was a lot more unified, if you liked Sonic you liked all of Sonic.
Nowadays the modern games are their own thing and the classic games are their own thing and then the comics are also separate and you also have Sonic Prime AND the Sonic movie all representing a different kind of Sonic, with none of them cross pollinating at all, thus making the series feel less unified as a whole.
Idw classic and prime are all canon to modern dude
I’m fairly certain they only said Prime was canon was for marketing because it really doesn’t line up with the games.
I hate how the community and Sega just never embraced that its the same character albeit tweaked over the years. EVERY character gets one if they've been around long enough. Spiderman, Batman, Doom Guy, Samus, Master Chief, Kratos, heck even Mario. I never really even noticed the changes that much until people kept pointing it out. I always saw them as the same exact character. No character is safe from a tweak or redesign if they've been around for a while. It's an inevitable change for your mascot to be kept up to date. Only a few I can think of that haven't been changed like Tom and Jerry, Daffy Duck, and Bugs Bunny
Tom & Jerry, Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck have all had design changes too. If a popular animated character is around long enough, their design will eventually change; it's inevitable!
So why people just cannot comprehend that when it comes to Sonic is beyond me. Let's not also forget that Sonic's design changed back in Sonic Adventure, which came out around, what, 1998? And no one had a problem with it. It wasn't until Sonic 4 was announced that fans suddenly turned on the newer design and started blaming it for literally everything wrong with the series and started demanding the older design to come back.
@@bowmaj8666 imo Classic Sonic should be an unlockable costume for modern games or a separate character in the racing/party games as a homage. Not an entirely separate character but a genuine love letter to the OG look
@@puffpuffpassmako I think so too, but trust me, there are Classic purists out there who simply won't stand for it. They'd hate the idea of their precious Classic Sonic being nothing but a mere skin for Sonic. Heck, most can't even accept that they're the same character.
I think the idea that classic sonic is sonic in the past makes a LOT more sense in a lot of ways. This also would allow classic sonic to just be a style, not a character. So modern sonic could've theoretically also been classic sonic in a future game, because it would just be an art style change (think Mario in Super Mario Odyssey and Mario in Super Mario Bros Wonder. Same character, two VERY different art directions). But now we definitively cannot get classic sonic to have, say, shadow the hedgehog without some overhaul in the lore.
I also am not a fan of classic sonic being the beginner friendly sonic and modern sonic being the "badass" sonic. I'm not saying sonic games shouldn't be beginner friendly, I think they should be, but modern sonic got his personality... from the idle animations in classic sonic titles.
Again, it makes more sense for classic sonic to just be an art style change. If you want to have classic sonic as a character in a game, say he comes from the past like generations did. It's not that hard.
Idk. I like the separation between the 2 but that's just me. Having mighty and ray only be classic and shadow being modern is interesting and fun to me. It also implies that classic sonic will grow to maybe not 100% be the modern sonic we have
But the problem is it DENYS all the growing “classic” sonic already HAD. Right now, it’s cool seeing who classic sonic became. Modern sonic. Watching him grow since 1991… if they say they are different, it rids all that growth. Classic sonic already grew- he did for 34 years, evolving into the modern Sonic we all know today. To say they are different characters with different arcs would undermine the already determined growth, and then i know that the mascot of sega is not the same one as the one of my childhood 😢
In the Twitter takeovers and interviews for Superstars, they refrence Classic Sonic as taking place in the past, so they're at least dropping the "Sonic from another dimension" thing.
Not to mention, Frontiers further deconfirms it as does the statement that Mania and Superstars happened between S3&K and SA1
Sonic was 15 years old in that look and 15 years old till frontiers where he's now 16 years old
@@dennisbeaman958 He didn't just get older in Frontiers. The plot of Generations kicks off with Sonic's birthday, so he's probably a bit older than just turning 16, especially considering the multiple month long time skip in Forces.
@@dennisbeaman958 The ages thing is not canon anymore
I do kinda hate how many questions pop up because this is canonically the younger sonic, like where trip was basically in the entirety of modern sonic now that she exists in classic.
I personally would be happier off knowing this was just an artistical choice or a different timeline and it still takes place in modern timeline but ah well, sonic team dug the questioning/timeline hole there
Batman, Spiderman, most heroes have a million variations. Why is it suddenly an issue? Thats why Sega ignores certain groups of fans.
And 5-10 years ago Iizuka already said canon isnt to be taken seriously and can change game to game. Yet you continue to fuss over it
Trip is easy to explain tbh, superstars take place in a unique island/location, so really you can just say that in the modern era, trip stayed on the island with the big flickys and etc and the rest of the cast didn't.
@RaphielShiraha64 While that's true, Trip is one of the easier characters to explain. The same can't really be said for characters like Mighty, Ray, Fang, and so on.
Like Miguel said in the video, it just puts unnecessary borders here that didn't really need to be there.
@@quickup7530 Its an issue because it doesn't look like Sega is making up their goddamn minds. All the heroes you mentioned made it very clear that they're different variations, hell even Sonic did that just fine before like Archie Sonic, Boom Sonic and such. But classic vs modern sonic is still a confusing mess on whether they're supposed to be the same dude or not
@@quickup75301. Marvel and DC comics never went without criticism for overly complicating their continuities.
2. Sonic also has multiple variations and alternate continuities between tv shows and comics, obviously people aren't put off with different versions of Sonic, they're put off because they're retroactively trying to make classic Sonic a separate character and arbitrarily segregating classic and modern elements.
I think Sega and Sonic Team learned that mixing the two is a horrible idea after Forces, so there's that at least.
But yeah, I just wish this franchise could be cohesive and not break the fucking canon every single fucking game for once. Because it's beyond repair at this point.
i really wish classic sonic would just stay a different artstyle but i feel like it would be impossible to go back to that after years of them desperately trying to separate them also its a fucking nightmare for lore if they keep making classic sonic games and trying to fit it in before adventure honestly i think it might be better for it to be another dimension so they could just do whatever they want inside the box of it being another dimension
11:38 That sounds exactly like me when I'm in a bad mood, which is an inexcusable behavior for such a big company. C'mon Sega, don't act like an emotionally unstable teenager!
pretty sure the "dimension" line is a mistranslation.
Like Tails’ character assassination in Forces?
to my knowledge they did lean to dimesnion at first but at some point they backed out thinking it would overcomplicate things (even though it might make the 2010s have more plot holes when going about it) the JP line is translated to "sonic from another world" so it isn't a complete mistranslation it was something that they thought of doing
No, the writers of the games were American.
Not making my boys Fang and the hooligans main cast members or bringing back Mighty and Ray into the modern era is a mega crime, and really makes the split even dumber.
The thing is adventure was CLEARLY a continuation of the classic games and uses the modern era characters so the split makes no sense...I much preferred when the classic games were just the past, they could very easily make games that occured before adventure...
Tailstube and Twitter Takeover actually implies they're making Classic Sonic from the past again. Though, they're doing it in a rather dumb way.
I like to think the adventure games *are* classic sonic, but no longer what he looked like in ‘91
For me, modern sonic started at sonic *06’*
I think this mainly because the final levels in gen ended before sonic 06’, suggesting that classic sonic ends there.
Sonic 06’ is where they rebooted the franchise, introducing a new canon and leaving behind the old. Thats why it was just called “Sonic the Hedgehog”
Sonic couldn’t spindash since 06’
So yes- you actually should be correct. Classic sonics final game was heros, and his death was 06’.
That is- if they are separate characters. Which I refuse to believe.
Actually, it was stated that the “another dimension” thing from Forces was a mistranslation/error/mistake. It’s confirmed that everything Classic Sonic related is all the same and in Sonic’s past. Also, the thing with North Star Island is that it’s imbued with a special energy that gives the emeralds special powers. I do wish Mighty, Ray, and other classic characters were in the Modern era and that Classic Sonic acted more like he used to. It shouldn’t try to be so cutesy
Really? What was the source you got this information? The part with the mistralation I mean
@@BJSolar02 Ian Flynn. At least that’s what I remember and I could be very wrong. At the very least, someone who works for SEGA said it
I like it Simple if it's just Kid Sonic meeting his Future Self.
Classic sonics 16, age of past maturity for hedgehogs. So idk abt “kid sonic”. He is just smaller for some reason… probably just to emphasize the past and future split.
@@SonicSatamAnimationsteens are still kids..? and i don’t think you should take the actual ages so seriously 😭
@@bri6165 Sorry, it’s just annoying how people treat the old sonic now like he’s just some cutesy baby or something when he used to be just as cool as he is now. By the way, I said “age of past maturity for hedgehogs” meaning that he is an adult even if a human would be a kid. Also, I just noticed how he was defining classic sonic as the “kid” sonic, when modern sonic was in teens too so they are both kids. I do see how I was being a little rude though. I liked this guys comment so I wasn’t completely disagreeing and just pointing something out. I edited my comment to be a little less outbursting.
The narrative part of this was basically undone with Frontiers. They heard the fans compaining and changed for the better.
12:15 I'm pretty sure Sega's response in this part is refering to Frontiers. So he's not quite ok with that direction either.
@@robertlupa8273and it's a mischaracterization
Wait, how do you have only 200 subscribers? That video was really good!
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
the one thing that was dumb was Sega said all a sudden sonic mania was part of the past which now makes no sense because it clearly was an alternate version of sonic where he always stayed classic and there are a lot of other things that we know why it never took place in the past like eggman not remembering the phantom ruby
It was never an alternative universe
In sonic generations, all the characters except tails forgot what the chaos emeralds were, suggesting that memory loss is common in sonic characters.
@@reggielacey2235 bruh it was
It pisses me off so much it was clearly just a redesign and I also get pissed that they act like Sonic couldn't talk until adventure just because the Genesis games didn't have unnecessary voice acting
Them retconning Classic Sonic to be a different dimension version of Modern Sonic rather than being his past self like we've all been led to believe was so *DUMB.* No wonder Sonic lore is such a hot mess.
Classic is his past self again they fixed it in tailstube
@@emoranightmare5493 I recall hearing something about that a while back, but I wasn't entirely sure. Which episode was it?
@@RoseSupreme th-cam.com/video/CnnqXIGA_UQ/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
@@RoseSupreme th-cam.com/video/CnnqXIGA_UQ/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
@@RoseSupreme look up tailstube #4 feat amy rose that’s the one
Sonic continuity is just BEYOND saving at this point. The sad thing is is that it was actually fairly consistent until Sonic 06 happened, now its just that one scene from SpongeBob where you get into his brain and its total chaos with fire and other SpongeBobs running around.
Aka I don't know anything about the lore ans continuity so I'm just gonna complain about it. It's not even that hard to follow even with idw and prime. You're just to lazy
@@reggielacey2235Thats not what he means. In games like SA1 and SA2 they always talked about the previous game and remembered it as it was yesterday. Since 06’, all of the games have been constantly just retconning each other for as long as time could tell. Modern sonic (after 06’) game connection lore isn’t straight or coherent at all. Sonic forgets what the chaos emeralds are every other game, and all sonic could say about his past in generations was that it felt “farmiliar”. Did sonic or any of the characters in sonic prime mention an event from the games *once?* I bet not. Unlike sonic X, (before sonic 06’) with the whole story revolving around an already existing game and only making it more interesting. Plot of prime and all the new sonic games have no callbacks or importance to the previous games once or ever. They simply create a new plot, a new magical gem, a new main villian for eggman to aid, and a new way at modern sonics victory. Nothing in the new lore changes, it just stays the same. In classic sonic games- every game introduced not only a very important character (S1 introduces sonic, S2 tails, CD amy, S3 knuckles, adventure big, and A2 shadow, rouge and ect) but a important, LORE changing plot point. What new characters are being introduced now? Infinite so he can appear for one game? All of the modern game lore is just kinda like mario now; it’s just another adventure, no different than the last.
the split was cool at first, but when they keep bringing classic sonic back it gets old fast.
We really need a Sonic Advance collection for the Switch and/or Switch 2, similar to the Castlevania collections.
Why does this guy have only 100 subscribers because he has one of the best editing and this guy must be heard about more and be more famous.
That is incredibly flattering thank you so much!
I completely agree
It seems that Classic and Modern are now back to being "the same guy at different time periods", with the Sonic Superstars team saying that they made Superstars to be a prequel to Sonic Adventure.
This raises an issue to me, however, because it makes Sonic 4's timeline placement feel unnatural. Sonic 4 presents itself as the chronologically first Sonic game to feature Metal Sonic after Sonic CD. However, Sonic has already learned how to perform a homing attack, and has green eyes. In Sonic The Fighters, he can't homing attack and has all Black eyes.
I think they'll just ignore Sonic 4.
@@robertlupa8273 They really can't tho. It's literally a crucial part of the timeline, since it explains how Metal got off of the Tiny Planet.
@@Reginald_Ritmo They'll just retcon it, I'm telling you. "OOOH NOOO. FANS HATED SONIC 4. SONIC 4 IS NOW GONE AND HAS NEVER EXISTED", to imitate how Miguel portrayed Sega in this video.
XD
@@Reginald_Ritmo Considering what they did to Silver's origin story they might lol
So, with the branching timeline, does that mean that the new classic sonic grows up into a different modern sonic with his own adventures or do those adventures play out the same ?
No, the branching timeline isn't a thing anymore. Frontiers undid it, and the newer Classic games have been confirmed to happen in Modern Sonic's past
@@gengargamer5657 ok thank god because all it did was raise WAY too many questions
@@SuperZaiyan9 Yup
@@SuperZaiyan9 Thing is, undoing the branching timeline raises a question: How do Sonic, Eggman, Tails, and everyone involved forget about things that their supposedly past selves encountered? None of them remember the Time Eater, meeting their future selves, or even the Phantom Ruby.
@@AwesomeGamer-om4hmNot to mention, if Superstars truly is set before Sonic Adventure, why did the Chaos Emeralds start granting individual powers and why did they suddenly stop?
Although, in fairness, this isn't a terrible idea. They could bring back this idea into a Modern game and have the characters reference it.
"The Chaos Emeralds have done this before. Remember that time with Trip?"
They could even bring Trip back with an updated design. However, there's every chance this will never happen, because Classic purists probably won't stand for it. "No! Those things are Classic only!" This is why this split is so limiting, and hurting the series more than people think.
Do y'all not realize the branching timeline isn't a thing anymore? Frontiers confirmed that Classic Sonic is a younger Sonic, not an alternate dimension one, and it was recently confrimed that Mania and Superstars happen between S3&K and SA1 in the canon timeline, not in an AU.
i GUESS the reason Classic Sonic is "Sonic from anoher dimension" in Forces is because Mania wasn't made by Sonic Team, and they're saying that specifically Sonic Mania sonic isn't the same as regular Classic sonic. but I have NO CLUE how Tails would be able to tell that just by looking at him.
LOL
Sales of Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush games dropped to the point that those series were no longer profittable. You need to understand that companies dont make game for E-cred. Sega made enough buck from Classic content that Japanese executives had more of it produced. That right there should end the discussion.
I am in no way a Call of Duty player. But even if every person on the internet complains about Call of Duty, it doesnt change the fact that Call of Duty is a top selling game every year. Any business would continue. Sega isnt going to make Sonic Rush 4 for it to flop saleswise, but get E-cred from Twitter users and E-cred. If you were a businessman you would also prioritize sales over E-cred.
All evidence shows that various rereleases of Classic Sonic games have outsold their original 90s versions by over 100x. Yes, 100x. Shareholders, investors, businessmen wont ignore that. Couch detectives on Twitter and TH-cam have no authority here.
Classic sonic is sonic from the past
That means modern sonic in generations would remember that all this stuff happened, and just be experiencing it for a second time on a different route
If it makes you feel better they changed it back to classic and modern being the same sonic just classic is from the past. They changed it back around the time superstars was close to coming out.
*Regarding the nostalgia argument, its important to know that the new mobile releases outsold the original Classic games on Genesis by 100 million.* So, its newer fans being exposed to Classic games.
Iizuka, Sonic Team's lead has stated repeatedly that Classic Sonic is for the younger fans. Frontiers is for older fans
Yes, and I literally say in the video that I think that is a smart business decision. My issue is how they treat it like there is no middle ground and it has to be black and white.
I’m sure older fans were playing the mobile version of classic sonic too and younger fans playing sonic frontiers.
I grew up with the classic games, but I always accepted the shift from classic to modern, green eyes and all. Now in an age where nostalgia pandering reigns supreme, I've gotten exhausted with the overuse of Kanto and Charizard-I mean Green Hill Zone and Classic Sonic. Forces made it especially annoying since we had just gotten Sonic Mania, a game built entirely on remixed classic assets to the point where I feel like I don't get anything out of it that I couldn't just get from playing the games it borrows from.
You pretty much nailed every point I had on it, from his design being cutesy to the lack of dialog and limiting character utility. The only one I disagree with is having classic era versions of modern characters, especially now that they've re-confirmed that classic era is the past. I wouldn't want to see a classic Shadow in the bubbly, cutesy style they have now. The Sonic CD intro this aint.
That Pokemon slip up cracked me up XD
Thank you for the input!
you nailed it with that one I like sonic adventure sonic the Dreamcast Ver sonic leg isn't too long sonic isn't as flat looking he was just right and gameplay. wise you had to earn your speed and you had multiple paths to choose from back in its time to me they ruin classic sonic design in 3d sonic looks way to bubbly cute and stiff and supersonic design quills are terrible compared to the spiky looking sonic 2 3 & knuckles & sonic the fighters' sonic levels designs and gameplay they took a step back the levels doesn't have that super colorful mystery fun vibe anymore not many are new powerups like the shields like the old sonic game are like how Mario add to his game to make it more fun even modern sonic and characters starting to look cheap limiting and stiff
I do agree with is the limitations. Classic sonic should be a cocky MF from the 90s. Cheesy as hell, he should feel like the sonic seen in SATAM while having the cool style from sonic CD and the OVA. I think classic versions of modern characters could work as well. Only if they bring back the junio art style, Superstars made it way too cutesy and it doesn't make sense at all. I am still waiting for a junio sonic mod cause I am not replaying till the music is fixed (I can't stand lagoon city using hydrocitys theme and blueballing it) and until they fix the designs of the characters to be cool.
I disagree with the mania part, Why would you play the original zones when sonic mania did them so much better. are you gonna tell me the original zones with their annoying slow down gimmicks, like metallic madness, oil ocean and flying battery for example. are not better in mania? Plus the music and act 2 additions aswell. Their was alot of effort and love put into mania. they didn't just port old levels, Plus the new zones work super well with the old. Also atleast give credit to mania for brining back the CD design a bit in the cutscenes.
Well, the re-release of Sonic 2 outsold the Sega Genesis release. 150 Million downloads for Sonic 2 remastered, Which is over 100 Million more people that bought Sonic 2 on Sega Genesis.
Iizuka has said "Classic Sonic appeals to the kids" and you can find that version of Sonic all over toystores.
@@codishotwell150Iizuka said "Classic Sonic is meant to appeal to kids." So they wont use the attitude version
Everything you said about this topic and how Sonic Team takes criticisms and turns it on our heads is everything I can agree on. Me, I play Sonic games (Any games) for the gameplay and story and after Forces I was very upset on what they did. Thankfully that got fixed later on, but still seeing people debate if whether or not Classic and Modern Sonic are the same person or different person is so frustrating that I always say to myself “Is the answer Not Obvious”. You have extremely valid points. Keep up the good work, dude.
I appreciate the feedback! Glad you enjoyed the video!
So glad that they made classic Sonic go back to being Sonic from the past now
The 2 world thing only made the already convoluted lore more convoluted. Like Blaze, Classic Sonic, and Eggman Nega had their origins changed on multiple occasions, yet all of the games that changed such are considered canon since other games mention those.
This is what people refer to as a _directionless_ intellectual property.
you deserve so many more subs!! i loved the humor and editing! awesome video :)
Appreciate it! Thanks a lot!
"Hi, I'm a sonic fan:"
Oh you poor baby. You've been through so much hellish torture.
Yep! XD
I think they stopped with the split because in the Tails tube videos they straight up say that classic sonic and modern sonic are the same
Oh my god, it's genuinely insane to see someone pretty much give my EXACT thoughts on this issue. I've made many of these points on twitter before (lol) back when Superstars was announced only to get lots of hate for it. I do hope that more people begin to see the issue of unnecessarily splitting up the franchise like this, Superstars turning out to be mid might push more people to that, at least.
If Superstars is Mid, its because the game was made by Arzest. Arzest are the creators of Balan Wonderworld, and they have a long history of producing bad, unplayable games.
Sega hired Arzest to make Superstars, because thats cheaper than hiring the OG Sonic 2/3 level designer. Its also cheaper than hiring the Mania team who left due to a payment dispute with Sega. Arzest doesnt complain about pay.
Also, today its all about the multiverse. Spider-Man, Ben-10, DC comics, splitting characters into multiple versions is a trend
@@chaomix4494 If I'm being honest even if Superstars was developed by Headcannon I would still believe that we should've gotten a 2D Modern game instead. A decent chunk of my issues with the game are that most of the Sonic cast feel really antiquated in terms of moveset. Compare how fluid Mario in Wonder and Samus in Dread feel in comparison to a character like Knuckles who feels like he's still stuck in the 90s with his slow gliding and his forced landing lag. The Sonic Mania Megamix fan game had a lot of nice QoL additions to the classic casts movesets, and naturally, the Advance games had some nice changes that really should come back.
@@chaomix4494 I really wouldn't call this a good excuse since audiences in general are getting tired of multiverse settings lol
@@chaomix4494 Arzest made Yoshi's New Island too,Superstars is the only game they have made which people actually seem to mostly like
Has anyone realised that every Sonic fan is basically Obi Wan in a new hope? "An elegant character for a more civilized time. For over all generations, the Sonic fans were the consumers of the blue blur in the old era. Before the dark times, before 2010", just replace this template with anything else in the franchise and it will fit.
FR LOL
replace it with the franchise that line came from and it would work too 😂
Yep, Generations is 12 years old...
Jeez. That gap is going to keep on growing
I never liked Classic Sonic's 'cute' characterization and how they make him mute. 90s era Sonic always had his 'attitude' and was given a distinct voice whenever possible (Sonic CD, the 1996 OVA, etc.) The current Classic Sonic just feels like a creatively-bankrupt interpretation of Sonic's genesis-era sprite. In generations 'Classic' Tails talked similarly to his older depictions, so it was a missed opportunity on Sonic Team's behalf to properly reinvent Sonic's 90s identity.
I really don't understand this complaint. The major complaint of the post dream cast era of Sonic is the over reliance of 2D level design in what are supposed to be 3D games. When Sonic went 3D in Adventure, he underwent a stylistic, aesthetic and mechanical change. Even the 2d modern games like Rush and Advance are still not "classic sonic games", in terms of their overall design sensibilities. Classic design is different from modern design, both aesthetically and mechanically. It's why Modern Sonic games starting with unleashed always feel weird when you reach the 2D sections. Modern Sonic never feels quite right in 2d, unless its Rush or advance, where the games are designed to be 2D versions of modern sonic.
2D Mario and 3D Mario have also very different design sensibilities. But unlike Mario, Sonic has a fairly strong Canon in place. And Sonic pretty firmly establishes the Classic era as existing earlier chronologically than the dreamcast and modern eras. As far as Sonic Canon is concerned, When Eggman went back in time in generations, he altered the timeline, such that a branched off Classic Timeline now exists parallel to the modern day timeline. It's still exists in an earlier point in history, but now has an altered future. Shadow and Silver don't generally show up in new classic games, because Sonic and co. have never met them in that timeline. Classic Eggman never woke Shadow up, nor has he any reason to because he knows if he does, Shadow will betray him like he did in the original timeline. Shadow can certainly appear in classic games if Sega wants, but they'd have to explain how Shadow got out in this version of history.
And even if you don't care for or about Sonic Canon, that doesn't make it go away. Frontiers is built upon recognizing that Canon. We don't get to pick and choose what to retcon and what not to. Sonic's narrative history matters. Shadow as a character exists exclusively in the context of two decades of narrative history. When you plop Shadow down in a universe, you bring all his baggage along with him. You bring Gerald and Maria Robotnik with him, you bring GUN with him. If you don't bring that stuff, all you've done is make a pointless clone of Sonic.
And from a purely gameplay perspective, most people, myself included aren't interesting in a playing a modern Sonic game with classic physics. 2D and 3D sonic have radically different design philosophies in terms of momentum, speed and physics. Theres a reason Sonic Utopia used the classic Sonic aesthetic and not the modern one. That fan game was a 3D version of classic Sonic's physics, not modern Sonic's. The two control differently, there's nuance to how they play. Its most game series create designations between 2d and 3d entries. Zelda, Metroid, Mario and Megaman all separate their series. None exist in separate canon from each other, but they try not to overlap when ever possible. 3D and 2D games tend to have different design teams, with different preferences and different writers and directors. Because 2d and 3d aren't the same. They have different disciplines, different restraints. You can't just transplant stuff back and forth.
And from a consumer perspective, many averages players have preferences. Some player prefer 2D and some 3D. and those people would prefer not to need to play the latest 3D game to get whats going on in the latest 2D game or vice -versa. Sonic Mania's ending is weakened by tying into forces. A lot of people who liked Mania didn't like forces and had no desire to play it. And some people just prefer the classic aesthetic over the modern one. The prefer the classic character designs, the classic gameplay, and classic world. Sega has two types of Sonic games, has them segmented with their respective histories and characters, all which exists in canon which each other, but still in separate timelines such that fans who care about lore aren't stressed by the contradictory histories. It's nothing but a win-win. It's more games, more variety and more fans. I simply do not understand complaining about it. Nobody is hurt by this, neither Sonic nor the fans. Modern Sonic can keep getting new games, and Classic can too. I like being able to have both Sonic Frontiers and Dream Team, and also having Mania and Superstars all be recent Sonic games, that scratch my itch for both types of play and both aesthetics.
Part of what you are saying is part of my complaint. Yes overall it is a net positive(as I say in the video) and I understand that. I am not down for either Classic or Modern Sonic reigning supreme and do not believe either one of them should be left behind. My complaint is the borders existing between the two. "No more 2D in Modern Sonic games" means no more Advance, no more Rush, no more Lost World(for those who like that). If Classic needs to be strictly 2D then no Sonic R(because yes it has its fans, and nothing official along the likes of Sonic Utopia). There are ppl and fans of the things that are between Classic and Modern Sonic and Sega/Sonic Team strictly dividing them is lessening the chances of those experimental titles ever returning because of the dumb rules between Classic and Modern.
I am all fore more Sonic content, which is exactly why I am making a discussion on this topic. More titles that are within the gray area between Classic and Modern Sonic, titles that experiment with the Sonic brand, are what I want more of on top of what we're currently getting.
@@MiguelMustNerd I never said classic has to stay 2d, nor does modern have to stay 3D. That’s why I brought up Sonic Utopia and Rush and Advance. Utopia is a 3D classic sonic game. It’s not a modern game. It’s using classic’s Sonic’s physics in a 3D space. Rush uses modern Sonic’s physics in a 2d space. A distinction still exists. Classic plays differently than modern, regardless of whether it’s 2d or 3D. A classic game can be in 3D, because the physics and design philosophy remain regardless of dimension. Whether or not Sega wants to make 3D classic or 2d modern games is up to them, but most people prefer Modern Sonic be fully 3D. Because Since Unleashed, Sonic team has used 2d as a crutch for their lack of desire to make full 3D levels. And the modern 2d section had been so lacklustre, people wanted a return to the proper 2d physics of the classic games. So we get both. We get proper 2d Sonic games like Mania and Superstars in an aesthetic meant for 2d, and we get Frontiers and Dream Team, which are full 3D games. Frontiers has its 2d stages, but their not the core focus of the game.
That’s why the distinction exists. It’s the difference between Mario Kart and F-Zero. Nominally, they are both racing games, but to say they are interchangeable is incorrect. They are the same basic pitch, but with two completely different design philosophies.
Classic’s physics are integral to the identity of classic, in the same way modern’s physics are. It’s the reason why Megaman and Megaman X are two different series. Their both Megaman but they play differently. You don’t play Megaman X, if you want classic Megaman’s physics, control or design. In fact, Megaman X is the perfect comparison, because like Modern Sonic, it’s in canon with classic Megaman. Yet classic Megaman games were still made, after X was established as a series. Because people still want the old format, with the old characters and style, in addition to the new. They don’t want to play X with classic’s format, because why bother? Why take away what makes X a unique subseries?
Why take away what makes Modern and classic different from each other just for the sake of homogeneity?
It’s like asking that Paper Mario should just be regular Mario. Or that Batman Beyond should just still be Batman. Different things in the same series can and should have different styles.
@@MaxM210 Which again, I am fine with. That's why I want more experimental games like Rush, R, and Advance. Which with how things are looking won't be happening, as it seems it's either Classic or Modern and that's it. They're treating it like it is Black and White.
@@MiguelMustNerd but the issue is, that’s a separate discussion from what this video is about. This video is about you disliking the distinction between classic and modern, not Sega’s desire to keep classic and modern as 2d and 3D respectively. Wanting 3D classics games or 2d modern games is a completely different issue from whether or not classic and modern should exist as separate entities, which was what your video was about. In your video, you said you dislike the entire distinction, and that’s where I believe the complaint falls short.
Wanting a variety of games in the two formats is a different complaint from not wanting there to be two formats at all. From Sonic Adventure onward, Sonic began two distinct ideas. The classic idea established in 2d, and the modern idea in 3D. The dream cast era may be different from the era that began with unleashed, but the reason it’s still umbrellaed under “modern”, is because that’s where “modern Sonic” as a concept stems from. That’s when his eyes turned green. That’s when the music style of Sonic became Rock. That’s when voice acting became standard. That’s where Amy and Eggman got their modern designs. The dream cast era is the start of “modern sonic”, which creates 2 distinct Sonic categories defined by 2d and 3D. Modern Sonic exists for 3D, just as classic exists for 2d. And while Sega has dabbled in 2d for modern and 3D for classic, it’s clear it’s not their priority, nor is it what most players want. There are many players who do, but not as the main attraction.
you talked about things like Shadow or Silver not appearing in classic games or Ray and Mighty not appearing in modern games. My point is that those characters have format specific contexts. Shadow is a modern character with a canon backstory. Sonic has an established canon, one that is important and that people care about. That’s why Sega doesn’t just do whatever. Sonic fans care about the lore. The currant writers care about the lore. And in all honesty, they very well could put Shadow as a cameo dlc character in superstars, but you can bet there’ll be some supplemental material in comics, animation or in game that explains how he got there and how it ties back to the modern timeline.
But also, the landscape is different now. There’s no game boy advance or DS to put smaller, lower budget spin off games on anymore. Video games take longer to make and are more expensive now. When Sega puts out a new Sonic game, it generally has to be THE new Sonic game. There isn’t room in the current gaming landscape to be putting out 2d modern games, because all people will ask is where the 3D one is. If Sega wants to put out a 2d sonic game, they’ll put out a classic game. Because people understand what classic sonic looks like, and that he’s associated with 2d. Remember the only reason Rush and Advance exist was to fill the void in the 2d market classic had left when they switched to modern full time following adventure. Now they have a fully established classic timeline to make games in, so why should Sega make 2d games that aren’t classic? There’s no mass market for that. The people who really want 2d sonic, want Classic. The people who really want 3D, want modern.
And that takes us back to the point of the video. The reason a distinction exists is because a distinction has always existed. There has always been a classic and a modern, from the moment adventure was made. Because some people prefer 2d and some 3D, and some prefer classic and some modern. I can understand wanting some overlap, but that’s not what this video was about. This video was about how there shouldn’t be any distinction what so ever. And that shipped sailed with adventure.
My question would be, what does a Distinctionless Sonic look like? Mania and Superstars are made as games with classic physics and classic aesthetic. As such that have stories set in classic canon. How do you make those games, if we have no distinction? If you agree the distinction serves a purpose, then you have to agree the video misses the point.
Classic Sonic, is just not needed anymore, Classic was introduced as a seperate Sonic for an anniversary and nothing else, BEFORE FORCES (Forces ruins a lot of things), Classic should’ve just been a one note appearance
I heavily dislike it when people say that Classic Sonic should just die. He shouldn’t die, he should just merge back together with Modern Sonic. I miss when Sonic The Hedgehog was just one character who had both traits of cute and cocky. In fact, Sonic Adventure referenced classic games because it had no other games at the time to reference however does that mean they just retconned anyone modern saying anything about the classic Sonic games?
It does seem like they are trying to bring all the lore together now though thanks to Frontiers and TailsTube. I severely hope they continue with this.
YES I miss when SOnic was just Sonic and none of this classic/modern BS
Nice vid. Love the chuchu.
I think the restrictions on what characters are allowed to appear in each "canon" (ik they retconned the seperate timelines thing but they're still basically separate canons) opens the door for new & interesting characters to be introduced without stepping on the toes of existing ones and also making the two styles more distinct from one another. Characters like shadow not only dont make sense in a classic style game from a lore perspective, but also he just doesn't fit well in the silent classic world as a character built on a deep backstory.
Classic is just the past dude.
I never understood how anybody got confused about the other dimension line but apparently I'm in the minority. Or course when you take someone from the past, put them in the pressent and then send them back, you're creating an alternate timeline where that character knows the future. Which is why I think Mania and Superstars happened, Robotnik in that white void learned all his plans from Sonic Adventure-Generations failed, and he says he's dedicated the rest of his life to forgetting them. Thus he has to come up with new plans in the past.
I mean it was stated that classic is just the past anyway multiple times
A major issue is that classic design has been for some reason limited to 2d gameplay. A lot of fans want the classic gameplay, in 3d. It'd be a great boon for 3d Sonic.
They are actually kinda blending them back into the same character. In those sonic yt videos they are treating the classic games like events that happened in the past.
Same goes for in Frontiers
this was so well done dropped a like hope you keep creating
Loved this video! Ofc there’s some hyperbole for the sake of entertainment, but you pretty much nailed a lot of feelings I’ve been having about Sonic.
Goofy theory: Sonic didn't think that deep about his future and went along with it. (when it comes to people saying that the time travel messed with him a little bit.)
It was actually confirmed that Classic Sonic & Modern Sonic are the same person.
I personally like to think Tails has a horrible memory. But it is a mistranslation.
I have more of a bias towards classic sonic. The idea that shadow in a classic sonic game just doesn't feel right, at least for plot related reasons. A playable Shadow will be a neat idea.
I would make a whole rant about the whole trip and chaos emerald things in superstars but instead seeing a bunch of sonic rant videos on my feed made me decide to make my own specifically on this topic.
the lack of hyper sonic specifically is getting on my nerves
I think we should care about the continuity. If we didn't then why should we give a shit if they separated classic and modern sonic at all? Its all just apart of a messy continuity that doesn't matter right? No. I especially think we should care now that sega is is actually starting to care. They hired someone who's job it is to make sure the canon works.
Or at least my take on that subject
Titles could just be stand-alones, there's literally no need to have one-long overarching continuous story
You bring up a really good point: Sonic was always supposed to be the "cool, edgy guy with attitude" but now they removed that from "Classic Sonic" making him the cute, sweet, funny lil guy that he never was supposed to be
I can't remember if this was considered a mistranslation or a misinterpretation (cause silver's future is sometimes called another dimension/world) or they just straight got rid of the retcon but EVEN THOUGH it is fixed, why did it have to be so...complicated for no reason.
I think the existence of Superstars might genuinely be one of the most egregious things they’ve ever done with the Sonic brand.
Why did they make a game trying to imitate the past *IMMEDIATELY AFTER* Frontiers, a game which was ALL ABOUT accepting that the past was in the past and *moving on.*
Well this is the same company that dropped a rated T game with swears and guns using the same models that were used in one of the most lighthearted and cartoonish games in the series being Sonic Heroes, it's beyond me what goes on in their heads...
Because people have been begging for a followup to Mania for years. Besides, it's really not egregious considering the game did well
Moving forward doesn't mean discarding the past. You cannot do Classic Sonic style with Modern Sonic and vice versa. They are simply far too different. In this instance, moving on with Classic Sonic is reviving the gameplay style and using the character to create new games in that style.
@@GameAW1 Exactly! Besides, other game companies do this stuff too and it is generally seen as a good thing
@@GameAW1 You're failing to see what the entire point of this discussion is. Let's say hypothetically Sonic was never redesigned into Modern Sonic, and all the Modern Sonic games we have now would be in the Classic Sonic artstyle, you mean to tell me you would still say it inherently doesn't work? You mean to say that absolutely anything Classic Sonic does Modern Sonic can't? And vice versa? They are literally just alternative playstyles at the end of the day, only difference is they are simply personified by different artstyles of Sonic.
They already confirmed classic sonic is STILL younger Sonic. All he did Modern Sonic already experienced
So does Classic sonic experience
Generations after already experiencing Generations when he was younger 💀
Got ya
@@rando6677 they retcon it . Ask Sega my guy💀
Its retconned every few months. And years ago Iizuka said canon isnt to be taken too seriously and can change game to game. If you choose to overanalyze canon,,whoss fault is that?
@@quickup7530 Tailstube already confirmed that he is his younger self and izuka said it too. And Iaan too. In Sonic Racing it also says younger Sonic. The retcon is done.
@@jasonblack2477Thing is, undoing the split also opens up the paradox of how nobody remembers the events from their younger selves' side of the adventure.
5:05 my brain has ran out of the rings needed to make it through this section
I agree, it’s like making the rainbooms interrupting the dazzlings part in welcome to the show
Sonic generations is 13 years old now it came out in 2011 and we are in 2024
Classic in modern sonic being separate in generations makes sense because there was the time thing in it. He disappears at the end anyway.
Subbed good takes
(Before watching) Assuming this is referring to the forces saying classic is another dimension, that’s been retconned back to it being classic sonic from the past (thx to tails tube)
this video style and sense of comedy is peak! great work, great video, and great take
man Sonic had a really rough transition to 2D
"Modern Sonic the most dynamic Sonic we've ever had design wise"
Toei Sonic has entered the chat:
great video quick question is your pfp supposed to be one of those jellies from zelda?
It is! Yes!
Okay, but for maximum confusion and silliness, we should send Modern Sonic to the past.
Bonus points if you make him and him alone fully 3D in a 2D pixelart game like Mania.
Pretty good idea ngl
The way I see it is that during generations, thats the same Sonic, just two different times. But afterwards, the timelines deviate. Making Classic do Mania before having the ruby bring him to forces. The reason the Modern characters dont remember anything with Mania, Mania plus, Superstars, ect. Is because it didnt happen to them. And yes they do say "dimensions" but i wish to chalk that up to Sonic team being dumb.
my problem is what was stated in this video the chaotix getting modern forms and mighty and ray staying in classic i hope they get modern forms and maybe even trip can get amodern form eventually.
The reason the Chaotix can be in modern games i'm pretty sure is becasue they were basically reset to a blank slate for Sonic Heroes; they're obvioslly based on the ones from Knuckles Chaotix but unlike the main cast were not supposed to be the same cahracters, just in a new era.
Or in other words, Classic Chaotix are not canon, only Modern Chaotix, IE they're part of the modern ensemble cast, not the classic emsenble cast
Which brings mind ot the point: Why do we need to now have a separate cast for classic and modern games who can't cross over that's stupid, keeping Rouge and Fang from interacting is just arbritarly denying us waht is an amazing character dynamic waiting to happen come on.
Okay I'm not exactly bringing anything to the argument except to say you have a good point also going off-topic for a sec
what game was that outro from just asking for a friend🙂 kinda an earworm to think about🤔🎶
Ardy Lightfoot - Lumberjack Forest
@@MiguelMustNerd Sorry man TH-cam keeps removing my comment so check your post for review thing to see it anyway thanks for this hey keep making cool stuff for us pls🙂👍
I suspect it’s a brand thing. Classic Sonic seems to have found success as its own separate series, so I suspect a lot of the embargoes and retcons were an attempt to promote it.
This video made me subscribe
Underrated as fuck
Anyways, Classic Sonic should definitely die after Superstars. I don't think there's anymore delaying Classic Sonic from going to adventure sonic
'why cant modern characters appear in a classic game' because aesthetically and fundamentally classic sonic is set in the past, recently they resolved the "alternate dimension" stuff via tailstube (which mainly serves to clean up lore) and have firmly established that the classic era/content IS set in the modern series' past. it ultimately comes down to sega on whether or not the classic characters appear in modern content but its something they absolutely have the chance to now. the reason as to why they may not be willing to do that comes down to the fact that the sonic series has a LOT of characters, especially on the modern side of things, and they probably want to avoid overcrowding
Its simple. The reason is that the people who make the modern games and classic games are two different *teams* of people. One creates their plot and characters, and one creates the other. Neither gets to know on the other’s projects early and they are both fully separated in sega cooperation.
This video is the first thing I've heard about Sonic Superstars since it came out.
Despite the forced cutesy behavior of Classic Sonic, I’m glad that we’re still being shown somewhat of his badass side in some terms. Sonic Mania Adventures perfectly captures his cool, cocky, impatient attitude along with perfectly writing others in the cast. And somewhat the IDW comics could count
I see the classic as the past and the modern as the present.
Same
Outro song name please?
Ardy Lightfoot - Lumberjack Forest
thx@@MiguelMustNerd
Personally, I like the divide between Modern and Classic Sonic. I think it distinguishes two eras of Sonic and gives both era a unique identity in both character and gameplay.
I (and this is probably the point where you and I disagree) like the canon and I really respect Sega's commitment to preserving it. Sonic's canon isn't perfect but it's leagues better than other prominent video game franchises like Zelda and Mario. At least you can draw up a timeline for Sonic's canon and I believe that's critical for Sonic since the lore and massive world is a huge draw for fans.
Plus, some of Sonic's best and most memorable games relied on a gripping story. It's hard to take new stores seriously if the canon is so flimsy and disposable. People won't care about new stories they know past stories can be easily retconed or ignored, that's terrible for investment.
So from where I stand, I like the Modern-Classic Sonic divide. Yes it is a limitation but the best art comes from limitations that are creatively worked around. And I'm not saying there can't be some overlap (like making modern designs for Mighty and Ray sounds awesome) but there should still be some strong points of distinction. A commitment to good gameplay should not override a commitment to a solid canon. And this isn't a mutually exclusive choice, you don't the to pick one and not the other. You can and should have both: Make great gameplay while respecting the canon. It's totally doable and should be the goal of every Sonic game.